The Current Medicare for All Proposal Is Merely a Discussion Starter.

[MineralMan]

It cannot possibly even get to the committee level in the current Congress, so it has zero chance of being enacted. It's also a very poor purity test of Democrats who currently hold office.

We don't need purity tests. We need unity that will help us regain majorities in Congress and elect a Democratic President. Anything that interferes with that unity will work against those goals. We need every Democrat possible to win seats in the House and Senate in 2018 and 2020 and we need an excellent candidate for President in 2020 who will actually win the election.

That is our only hope for some sort of Universal Health Care. If we do not accomplish the goal of taking back control of the Executive and Legislative branches of federal government, we aren't going to get any single payer or any other type of universal coverage. We must not lose sight of the real goal by focusing on something that is just a discussion point.

Medicare for All is probably how Universal Health Care will happen, but it will never happen until we establish solid, substantial Democratic majorities in Congress and elect a strong two-term Democratic President. If we lose sight of that, we won't get anything at all.

I have long been an advocate of single-payer universal health care. I've worked to get people elected who also support that. But, that's not enough. We need CONTROL of Congress and a President we can trust or we're getting nothing.

Focus! Focus on the real goal, not the discussion, please!

[guillaumeb]

1. Agreed, with one stipulation.

Democrats must know that what works in many other countries will also work here.

There is no need to reinvent what already exists. But so many posters at DU seem to have absorbed the idea that Americans will never accept federal control of the system, which shows how well the GOP has framed the debate.

[MineralMan]

2. They know that already.

Again, that is not the current goal we should be focusing on. The only thing that will matter in 2018 and 2020 is regaining control of the White House and Congress. That is the only thing that is going to matter with health care and every other issue that is important.

Every time we divert from trying to figure out how to reach that goal, is a time that is wasted.

We need to stop fighting about details and focus on what needs to happen so we can actually accomplish something. Until we do that, we are gaining no headway at all.

[guillaumeb]

5. Agreed, but again, with a stipulation.

If we ask people to vote for Democrats, we must also tell them why.

If platforms were not important, if the why of voting Democratic was not important, all 29 thousand or so words of the Democratic Party platform would not exist.

So I believe that we agree that every detail does not need to be worked out, but the broad outlines need to be there. And Medicare IS already there.

[MineralMan]

8. If we are fighting among ourselves, we're not

working toward the goal of regaining control of Congress and the White House. We are working against ourselves.

We need Democratic butts sitting in as many desks in Congress as we can possibly get. Democrats who will vote with the Democratic caucus. We don't need to primary Democrats who have proven their ability to get elected. That's just stupid. We need more Democrats, not fewer, and losing races by primarying incumbents is not how to do that.

I'm disgusted by calls to primary people like Pelosi and Feinstein. They are Democrats who are solid leaders and who consistently vote for and encourage other Democrats to vote for progressive legislation. Why would we want to lose those people who have proven records of success?

Your House rep, for example is a lousy Democrat, a Blue Dog. But he votes with the Democratic Caucus in almost all cases. I don't like him, but I wouldn't risk losing that seat to a Republican by beating him in a primary with someone who can't win the district in the General Election. Once we have solid majorities, we can rid ourselves of people like him. Not now. We can't afford to lose even one seat right now.

I'm sick of it, frankly!

[Major Nikon]

3. It's a discussion that started before ACA was passed

It always has been the goal. It shouldn't be a purity test as we should always be open to new ideas, but it's still a goal that is worthy of working towards as is universal coverage. Waiting until we have a majority before we even start working towards those goals seems to be a better recipe for insuring we never will have a majority.

[MineralMan]

4. Frankly, it is impossible to work on something that cannot

even reach committee-level consideration. We can talk about it, but we can't actually put anything on the Congressional calendar until we have majorities.

Of course we should be working on something to introduce when we are in control, but introducing bills that cannot possibly succeed accomplishes nothing, really. It only distracts.

[Major Nikon]

7. If that were true, the entire Democratic caucus might as well stay at home with a fidget spinner

[MineralMan]

11. This is not about discussing potential ideas.

This is about not stupidly demanding total support for bills that cannot be passed or even go to committee from incumbent Democrats. As I said: Focus!

[Major Nikon]

13. Sounds like you are advocating abandoning any ideas that you don't think can get through committee

The problem is whether we are ready for it or not, those committees can and are discussing the future of health care at this very moment, and the opposition is well served by having a clear plan and message for addressing those problems regardless of whether or not we are the party in power.

[Expecting Rain]

9. The open question is whether purity testing a bill that is lacking in details...

one that isn't vetted and is sure to fail moves us towards our goal, or if it does the opposite?

[MineralMan]

10. I have no problem with discussing any proposal.

I have a problem with demonizing people who don't automatically cheer every proposal that is introduced. That's what my problem is. We cannot afford to demonize incumbent Democrats who routinely get re-elected. We need every last one of those seats. We need to be focusing on flipping seats currently held by Republicans, not attacking Democrats for any reason, really.

[Expecting Rain]

12. I agree with you 100%

I wish we had a lot of discussion and the gaming of different plans on a think-tank level with serious economists and computer scientists working with experts to creat sophisticated models that could help generate a plan (or plans) that were substantitive enough to convince those Americans for whom sloganeering isn't enought (read:most Americans).

I suspect many supporting this bill do so only because they know it will fail. So they can say yes to the symbolism of a general concept they support, while knowing superficial plans don't cut the mustard.

We need to do better if we want real progress.

I just hope this doesn't hurt us electorally and further endanger the ACA.

[MineralMan]

14. Yes. Thanks!

[delisen]

16. Tying Universal coverage to Medicare may put Medicare

on the table unfortunately, regarding current coverage and premiums

[haveahart]

6. Thank you, MineralMan.

Right on target!

[peggysue2]

15. Once again, MM . . .

You are absolutely correct. I suspect most of us would agree that single-payer, universal healthcare is the way to go. But it is purely aspirational at the moment. There's no way in hell anything remotely like the Sanders' bill is possible without a solid Democratic majority in both houses. Which means:

Back to back WINS in 2018 & 2020.

Not sure what's so hard to understand about all this. Without a Democratic majority, we can discuss and dream and shout to the heavens until we're blue in the face but nothing, zip, zilch will get done. We're having a hard enough time protecting what we have because the Republicans want to torch anything and everything Obama managed to accomplish. We're surrounded by arsonists.

And purity tests? Don't even get me started.

Our energy and attention needs to be focused on one thing and one thing only--winning the next two elections. And oh yeah, saving the country while we're at it.