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Wed Sep 13, 2017, 11:47 AM

Clinton: I Urged 08 Supporters to Back Obama, Didnt Get That Respect from Sanders

[link:https://www.mediaite.com/tv/clinton-i-urged-08-supporters-to-back-obama-didnt-get-that-respect-from-sanders-and-his-supporters/]

Wasn't Hillary's supporters leading the "PUMA" movement from 2008? Did they just not listen to her?...How would that be any different than Sanders supporters not listening to him.

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Reply Clinton: I Urged 08 Supporters to Back Obama, Didnt Get That Respect from Sanders (Original post)
SpicyBoi Sep 2017 OP
nycbos Sep 2017 #1
KPN Sep 2017 #5
nycbos Sep 2017 #9
NurseJackie Sep 2017 #10
George II Sep 2017 #159
Hekate Sep 2017 #196
InAbLuEsTaTe Sep 2017 #241
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Response to SpicyBoi (Original post)

Wed Sep 13, 2017, 11:51 AM

1. Hillary revoked the credentials of delegates at the convention who wouldn't support Obama.

I was an Obama 2008 voter was not a big fan of Clinton in 2008. But she did way more for Obama in 2008 than Sanders in 2016 did for her.


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Response to nycbos (Reply #1)

Wed Sep 13, 2017, 11:55 AM

5. That's an autocratic behavior,

not democratic.

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Response to KPN (Reply #5)

Wed Sep 13, 2017, 12:02 PM

9. This is why there are alternates to the convention.

Hillary is a committed loyal Democrat and thought her delegates should support the DEMOCRATIC nominee. I fully support that.


Sanders is not and he has never been a Democrat so he was ok with rouge delegates who were not committed to helping the party win.

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Response to nycbos (Reply #9)

Wed Sep 13, 2017, 12:04 PM

10. I'm glad that this is finally being discussed openly and honestly.

Thank you.

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Response to NurseJackie (Reply #10)

Wed Sep 13, 2017, 03:35 PM

159. Yes, and now Clinton and her supporters will move on.

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Response to George II (Reply #159)

Wed Sep 13, 2017, 05:51 PM

196. Like hell we will. When Trump is impeached and the traitors are in prison, maybe then we can...

...discuss "moving on."

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Response to George II (Reply #159)

Wed Sep 13, 2017, 10:47 PM

241. They should move on... it's time to unite.

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Response to InAbLuEsTaTe (Reply #241)

Thu Sep 14, 2017, 01:25 AM

260. Indeed, when people stop attacking us and demanding that we "bend the knee"

and calling us names and otherwise abusing us, we'll be happy unite. Let us know when that'll be happening. We'll arrange some refreshments, donuts and water sound good?

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Response to nycbos (Reply #9)

Wed Sep 13, 2017, 05:50 PM

195. Thank you for that

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Response to KPN (Reply #5)

Wed Sep 13, 2017, 10:12 PM

235. Baloney. There are rules for every organization. Look at DU's TOS for starters...

There's always someone around who can't wrap their head around the idea that DU has this thing called "rules," and that if they want to continue posting here they have to abide by them.

Same for being a delegate at the Democratic Convention.

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Response to Hekate (Reply #235)

Wed Sep 13, 2017, 11:40 PM

245. No baloney. There are written and there are unspoken rules -- two different things.

Not to mention there is no rule that says a candidate has to cancel the credentials of delegates who don't toe the line. The way I see things, it was an autocratic behavior. I am entitled to that perspective, no? Or is there a rule against holding personal views around here (no need to respond, there's not).

One last thing, not all rules are sensible or even desirable. Sometimes "rules" need to be broken in order to get that acknowledged.

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Response to SpicyBoi (Original post)

Wed Sep 13, 2017, 11:53 AM

2. More sour grapes.

What's the point? Is this just ego? Let it go Hillary.

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Response to KPN (Reply #2)

Wed Sep 13, 2017, 12:22 PM

27. She's simply telling the truth

I stay out of these threads normally but I'm sick of Sanders supporter's claiming he did as much for our party and for getting his supporters to back Hillary as Hillary did in 2008. It's simply not true. He didn't do jack shit for her.

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Response to leftynyc (Reply #27)

Wed Sep 13, 2017, 12:27 PM

34. Truth!!!!!



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Response to leftynyc (Reply #27)

Wed Sep 13, 2017, 12:31 PM

39. There was a big difference also on when he conceded and I'm sick of it too

https://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1002&pid=9556266
Sanders before the convention 16
Instead, he said he will attempt to use his delegates to push for more progressive reforms at the upcoming Democratic National Convention, in Philadelphia. “Why would I want to [drop out] when I want to fight to make sure that we have the best platform that we possibly can?” he asked rhetorically. “The goal of our campaign was to transform this nation.”

Although Sanders acknowledged on Morning Joe Friday that most of his supporters were heading for the exits, he reiterated that he is not dropping out of the race until his oft-promised “political revolution” yields real results.
“I'm pretty good at arithmetic, and what I know is that Hillary Clinton has more pledged delegates than I do, and she has a lot more super-delegates than I do,” he said. “But what I also know is we're bringing 1,900 delegates into the convention, that we have received 13 million votes


Clinton less than one week in primary08
"Today as I suspend my campaign, I congratulate him on the victory he has won, the extraordinary race he has run and and I throw my full support behind him — and I ask all of you to join me in working as hard for Barack Obama as you have for me," she said.
She said she and Obama have faced each other in 22 debates and she has had a "front-row seat to his candidacy" and has seen "his determination, his grace and his grit."
With daughter Chelsea and husband — former U.S. president Bill Clinton — along with her mother, Dorothy Rodham, watching, the New York senator formally ended her bid for the country's highest political office after a 16-month contest to win over party delegates.

The official announcement came less than a week after the Illinois senator secured enough delegates — totalling 2,118 — to clinch the Democratic presidential nomination.

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Response to lunasun (Reply #39)

Wed Sep 13, 2017, 12:37 PM

49. Not even a contest on which

was more gracious in losing the nomination. And his supporters BOOING our candidate during the convention was the last straw for me.

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Response to lunasun (Reply #39)

Wed Sep 13, 2017, 12:37 PM

50. A tangible difference?

Obama won the presidency when Hillary committed to him.

Hillary lost the presidency when Sanders hemmed and hawed.

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Response to lunasun (Reply #39)

Wed Sep 13, 2017, 01:16 PM

89. and? Sanders had a platform that actually diverged from Clinton's demonstrably. He did what he


should have done and used his political capital to get the party to respond to his voter base. Was there something that Clinton felt strongly on that differed so significantly from Obama that she thought it worth leveraging? For Sanders, this might have been a once in a lifetime opportunity. The most progressive voices have very few windows where they actually get visibility, and he had created monumental visibility. Had he slunk away all that effort would have been for almost nothing. The party would not have acknowledged those voters, and would have simply expected that they just fall in line for whatever the party agenda was.

Had Sanders done that he would have let all those people and the progressive causes he stood for down because until post convention, the leadership had absolutely signaled that they had no intention of budging. They had won the day, and were ready for things to go back to business as usual.

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Response to JCanete (Reply #89)

Wed Sep 13, 2017, 01:27 PM

94. And..then OK so you understand the OP title . She turned to the traditional formality of conceding

after the primary votes are gained he went all the way to the convention with his followers
As you say they did not fall in line to party agenda , and Sanders did not bow out or move away from the nomination

Clinton: I Urged 08 Supporters to Back Obama, Didnt Get That Respect from Sanders [View all]

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Response to lunasun (Reply #94)

Wed Sep 13, 2017, 01:29 PM

95. except that she is painting the two scenarios as if they are exactly the same and that she deserved

the same treatment from Sanders. It was a lack of "respect" that he didn't do the same. That went both ways. I'd be willing to bet the Obama team extended far more respect to Clinton than the Clinton team to Sanders, which on edit, is fine by the way. They viewed Sanders as a thorn in the side and an irritation to be finally done with. They have every right to have thought that way, but Sanders had every right to seize that opportunity to not have his platform fade away and I'm glad he did. Graciousness is not what that moment called for if it was just going to be a concession of left-wing liberal values. That has real world costs and this isn't a pageant.

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Response to JCanete (Reply #95)

Wed Sep 13, 2017, 03:25 PM

144. Guess what else was different about the 2 scenarios? Obama v. McCain and Clinton v. Trump.


"Sanders had every right to seize that opportunity to not have his platform fade away and I'm glad he did."

Honestly, what Sanders did was to satisfy his own ego at the expense of everyone opposed to a Trump presidency.

It's not about graciousness - it is about hard, cold facts. Clinton saw the danger that was Trump. Sanders didn't see it.

The margin of defeat was so slim, wonder if Sander every considers what might have happened if he didn't take it to the convention so we could have the media fixate on people like Susan Sarandon.

You are right about one thing - what Sanders did has real world costs. And we are all suffering from them now.

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Response to Justice (Reply #144)

Wed Sep 13, 2017, 03:29 PM

153. you have no evidence to support your claim. Nothing to connect Sanders campaign to voters not


turning out for Clinton. You've just dawn that conclusion because its convenient to your narrative. His campaign got me on board Clinton's, so count me as one who might have been more cynical about Clinton had she not tacked left after the primary.

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Response to JCanete (Reply #153)

Wed Sep 13, 2017, 04:42 PM

185. Your well-thought out points are ,, well, can I say 'nuanced,' as they should be.

Whatever the arguments for or against Bernie's actions in relation to Hillary, and Hillary's actions in relation to Barack, the two situations were vastly different.

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Response to JCanete (Reply #153)

Wed Sep 13, 2017, 09:12 PM

224. The conclusion is drawn by many because it is true.

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Response to Justice (Reply #224)

Fri Sep 15, 2017, 03:08 PM

284. well that's as circular an argument as they come. People are coming to the conclusion

that it is true because it is true? Where is the verification of that truth? Where is the evidence? People used to come to the conclusion that the sun revolved around the earth because it was "true", although I'd argue that they had at least some evidence that they were basing that on, such as their limited physics knowledge that came to faulty conclusions drawn form experiments involving dropping things from towers...etc. This on the other hand...

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Response to Justice (Reply #144)

Wed Sep 13, 2017, 03:36 PM

160. Exactly, very well said. Ego, and at a great cost.

That divisiveness was obviously witnessed by those Russian hacker types who saw their opportunities in the divisiveness. Now look what we have.

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Response to R B Garr (Reply #160)

Wed Sep 13, 2017, 03:42 PM

167. Ego indeed.

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Response to NurseJackie (Reply #167)

Wed Sep 13, 2017, 03:51 PM

171. And that's what we all saw when he didn't disavow those supporters and

smeared not just our nominee but the entire party. Hillary never did that; no Democrat has done that who was concerned about winning. There is simply no comparison as to how Democrats were disrespected, and Clinton is right to acknowledge that. Can't wait to get this book! It's about time these things are brought up for our party.

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Response to Justice (Reply #144)

Wed Sep 13, 2017, 03:44 PM

168. Not true: "Clinton saw the danger that was Trump. Sanders didn't see it"

Sanders warns Michigan voters that Trump is 'dangerous and un-American'

Senator campaigns for Clinton in region where Trump has placed an intense focus – despite the state having not voted for a Republican president since 1988

Bernie Sanders blasted Donald Trump as a billionaire who exemplifies a “corrupt American political system” in the Vermont senator’s first visit to Michigan on the campaign trail for Hillary Clinton on Thursday.

At a local United Auto Workers chapter in Dearborn, the first of four campaign stops across the state, Sanders’ appearance on behalf of Clinton came several months after he eked out a shocking victory in Michigan’s primary election. But in his roughly 50-minute speech, Sanders stressed the importance of electing Clinton, declaring Trump’s policy agenda is “particularly dangerous and un-American”.

The Republican nominee, Sanders said, differs from any candidate in modern history for one reason: “The reason Trump’s campaign is particularly dangerous and un-American is that he has made the cornerstone of his campaign bigotry.”

He continued, “This campaign, what Trump is trying to do trying to win votes by dividing us up, by insulting the Latino brothers and sisters, by insulting the Muslim community, by every day hurling insults at women.”

https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2016/oct/06/donald-trump-michigan-bernie-sanders-clinton-campaign


Clinton waa beating Trump by 23 points in August, having a worthy challenger in the primary didn't cause her to lose.

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Response to beam me up scottie (Reply #168)

Wed Sep 13, 2017, 03:58 PM

172. LOL!

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Response to Justice (Reply #144)

Thu Sep 14, 2017, 12:03 AM

250. Wait, so you know that had Sanders conceded earlier Hillary would have won?

That's BS. Stop blaming others here. Defend your policy views all you want, but don't guilt trip those who hold views different than your own.

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Response to Justice (Reply #144)

Thu Sep 14, 2017, 03:32 AM

263. Have you considered that the opposite might well be true?

That without the platform changes he forced through, the margin might have been even greater, as less of his supporters would have voted for her?

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Response to JCanete (Reply #95)

Wed Sep 13, 2017, 09:51 PM

226. She did deserve the same treatment

She won the nomination. Period. As did Obama in '08.

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Response to JCanete (Reply #89)

Wed Sep 13, 2017, 11:59 PM

249. Yup, the Party would have echoed Rahm:

fuck the progressives.

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Response to leftynyc (Reply #27)


Response to leftynyc (Reply #27)


Response to Post removed (Reply #77)

Wed Sep 13, 2017, 04:44 PM

186. Indeed.nt

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Response to Post removed (Reply #77)

Thu Sep 14, 2017, 12:15 AM

252. ++++++++

Yes

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Response to leftynyc (Reply #27)

Wed Sep 13, 2017, 04:45 PM

187. I guess she wasn't listening to his concession speech

http://thehill.com/blogs/pundits-blog/presidential-campaign/287370-transcript-bernie-sanders-formally-endorses-hillary

Sanders - 'Why I'm endorsing Hillary Clinton'
……

Secretary Clinton has won the Democratic nominating process, and I congratulate her for that. She will be the Democratic nominee for president and I intend to do everything I can to make certain she will be the next president of the United States.
I have come here today not to talk about the past but to focus on the future. That future will be shaped more by what happens on November 8 in voting booths across our nation than by any other event in the world. I have come here to make it as clear as possible as to why I am endorsing Hillary Clinton and why she must become our next president.
………..

Hillary Clinton understands that we must fix an economy in America that is rigged and that sends almost all new wealth and income to the top one percent. Hillary Clinton understands that if someone in America works 40 hours a week, that person should not be living in poverty.
She believes that we should raise the minimum wage to a living wage. And she wants to create millions of new jobs by rebuilding our crumbling infrastructure. – our roads, bridges, water systems and wastewater plants.
But her opponent – Donald Trump – well, he has a very different view. He believes that states should have the right to lower the minimum wage or even abolish the concept of the minimum wage altogether. If Donald Trump is elected, we will see no increase in the federal minimum wage of $7.25 per hour – a starvation wage.
This election is about which candidate will nominate Supreme Court justices who are prepared to overturn the disastrous Citizens United decision which allows billionaires to buy elections and undermine our democracy; about who will appoint new justices on the Supreme Court who will defend a woman’s right to choose, the rights of the LGBT community, workers’ rights, the needs of minorities and immigrants, and the government’s ability to protect the environment.
If you don’t believe this election is important, take a moment to think about the Supreme Court justices that Donald Trump will nominate, and what that means to civil liberties, equal rights and the future of our country.
This campaign is about moving the United States toward universal health care and reducing the number of people who are uninsured or under-insured. Hillary Clinton wants to see that all Americans have the right to choose a public option in their health care exchange, which will lower the cost of health care.
She also believes that anyone 55 years or older should be able to opt in to Medicare and she wants to see millions more Americans gain access to primary health care, dental care, mental health counseling and low-cost prescription drugs through a major expansion of community health centers throughout this country.
Hillary is committed to seeing thousands of young doctors, nurses, psychologists, dentists and other medical professionals practice in underserved areas as we follow through on President Obama’s idea of tripling funding for the National Health Service Corps.
………
Hillary Clinton also understands that millions of seniors, disabled vets and others are struggling with the outrageously high cost of prescription drugs. She and I are in agreement that Medicare must negotiate drug prices with the pharmaceutical industry and that we must expand the use of generic medicine.
………..
She knows that it is absurd that middle-class Americans are paying an effective tax rate higher than hedge fund millionaires, and that there are corporations in this country making billions in profit while they pay no federal income taxes in a given year because of loopholes their lobbyists created.
While Hillary Clinton supports making our tax code fairer, Donald Trump wants to give hundreds of billions of dollars in tax breaks to the very wealthiest people in this country. His reckless economic policies will not only exacerbate income and wealth inequality, they would increase our national debt by trillions of dollars.
This election is about the thousands of young people I have met who have left college deeply in debt, the many others who cannot afford to go to college and the need for this country to have the best educated workforce in the world if we are to compete effectively in a highly competitive global economy.
Hillary Clinton believes that we must substantially lower student debt, and that we must make public colleges and universities tuition free for the middle class and working families of this country. This is a major initiative that will revolutionize higher education in this country and improve the lives of millions.
Think of what it will mean when every child in this country, regardless of the income of their family, knows that if they study hard and do well in school – yes, they will be able to get a college education and leave school without debt.
This election is about climate change, the greatest environmental crisis facing our planet, and the need to leave this world in a way that is healthy and habitable for our kids and future generations. Hillary Clinton is listening to the scientists who tell us that if we do not act boldly in the very near future there will be more drought, more floods, more acidification of the oceans, more rising sea levels.
She understands that we must work with countries around the world in transforming our energy system away from fossil fuels and into energy efficiency and sustainable energy – and that when we do that we can create a whole lot of good paying jobs.

………..
It is no secret that Hillary Clinton and I disagree on a number of issues. That’s what this campaign has been about. That’s what democracy is about. But I am happy to tell you that at the Democratic Platform Committee which ended Sunday night in Orlando, there was a significant coming together between the two campaigns and we produced, by far, the most progressive platform in the history of the Democratic Party.
Our job now is to see that platform implemented by a Democratic Senate, a Democratic House and a Hillary Clinton president – and I am going to be in every corner of this country to make sure that happens.
I have known Hillary Clinton for 25 years. We were a bit younger then. I remember her as a great first lady who broke precedent in terms of the role that a first lady was supposed to play as she helped lead the fight for universal health care. I served with her in the United States Senate and know her as a fierce advocate for the rights of children.
Hillary Clinton will make an outstanding president and I am proud to stand with her here today. Thank you all, very much!"




But it seems like some just are stuck on the one sentence, and not the next. (bolded)

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Response to LiberalLovinLug (Reply #187)

Wed Sep 13, 2017, 10:53 PM

242. Sounds pretty gracious to me.

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Response to leftynyc (Reply #27)


Response to Name removed (Reply #230)

Wed Sep 13, 2017, 10:04 PM

231. The library is open late tonight!

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Response to DesertRat (Reply #231)

Wed Sep 13, 2017, 10:09 PM

233. I can't believe it's not butter!

Sorry, I couldn't resist. What I actually meant to say is that screaming isn't allowed in the library, even when it's closed.

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Response to greatauntoftriplets (Reply #233)

Wed Sep 13, 2017, 10:15 PM

238. .

I CAN'T BELIEVE THIS POST IS STILL HERE

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Response to DesertRat (Reply #238)

Wed Sep 13, 2017, 10:18 PM

239. ME EITHER!!!1111

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Response to Name removed (Reply #230)

Wed Sep 13, 2017, 10:13 PM

236. speaking of Russian Trolls

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Response to KPN (Reply #2)

Wed Sep 13, 2017, 12:43 PM

58. A simplistic bias often demands we translate accuracy as "sour grapes."

A simplistic bias often demands we translate accuracy as "sour grapes."

Let it go, fella...

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Response to LanternWaste (Reply #58)

Thu Sep 14, 2017, 12:11 AM

251. Simplistic bias?

There is absolutely no justifiable reason for her to take aim at and blame Bernie for her disappointment. There is nothing good derived or gained from it. While many here are quick to hammer Bernie for what they perceive as "ego", they ignore what many others see as nothing more than "ego" in this instance. How about you let it go ...

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Response to KPN (Reply #2)

Wed Sep 13, 2017, 01:01 PM

82. Not sour grapes. Facts

 

People need to be reminded about how on e should be loyal to making sure Dems are elected and not simply sticking around because of ego

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Response to joeybee12 (Reply #82)

Thu Sep 14, 2017, 12:20 AM

253. Who are these people here that you speak of?

I haven't heard anyone here at DU say they voted for someone other than Hillary.

Dems need to be Dems -- then maybe there will be loyalty. Otherwise, its just blind loyalty and the majority of Americans have grown tired of that. That's fundamentally why the Dem Party is in its current position. Do you really expect the millions of young people to vote Dem just because of the label "Dem"? What I hear them saying loudly and clearly is: what have you done for me lately? Do you think people who didn't vote for Hillary are being convinced by her book that they should have? What I'm hearing is "sour grapes" ... and I tend to agree. No productive purpose in that.

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Response to KPN (Reply #253)

Thu Sep 14, 2017, 02:28 PM

282. "Do you really expect the millions of young people to vote Dem just because of the label "Dem"?"

This^

Brilliant. So much derision in here for anyone that puts actual policy over party labels. It seems like some in here are arrogant enough to think the answer is "YES OF COURSE!, and if they want more than that then screw em". I always thought that was the MO of the Republican voter. Of course...in general....Democrat candidates are all on board with more socially liberal issues, and so we would vote for them. But you can't live forever as a party based on..."at least we are not Rs".

Young people are smarter than that, especially liberal thinking ones. They look at the platforms. Why would they even bother to come out to vote for a DINO candidate over a Republican candidate, just because one has a D and the other has an R?

Bernie has been, frankly, shaming the Democratic establishment by acting more like a traditional Democrat than many of them. At least like a Democrat that has new, real, exciting ideas, and pushes them, loudly and publicly. I'm happy to see more and more prominent Ds now backing his efforts. We need to rebuild the grassroot support. But I fear the establishment grip on the party will not go away quietly.

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Response to KPN (Reply #2)

Wed Sep 13, 2017, 01:07 PM

86. ah yes, tell the little woman to sit down and shut up. nice.

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Response to niyad (Reply #86)

Wed Sep 13, 2017, 01:18 PM

91. You are assigning many assumptions to what I said.

It's sour grapes regardless.

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Response to KPN (Reply #91)

Wed Sep 13, 2017, 01:24 PM

93. no, I think I got the message loud and clear.

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Response to niyad (Reply #93)

Wed Sep 13, 2017, 01:40 PM

106. Not. Explain to me "the little lady" part.

That's an assumption.

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Response to KPN (Reply #2)

Wed Sep 13, 2017, 03:27 PM

150. Sour grapes?

She beat him. Bernie didn't even make it out of the qualifying round.

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Response to BannonsLiver (Reply #150)

Thu Sep 14, 2017, 12:21 AM

254. You make my case.

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Response to KPN (Reply #254)

Thu Sep 14, 2017, 12:23 AM

255. some case.

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Response to BannonsLiver (Reply #255)

Thu Sep 14, 2017, 12:26 AM

256. sorry it escapes you.

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Response to KPN (Reply #256)

Thu Sep 14, 2017, 12:29 AM

257. Ok

But perhaps whatever "it" is, you're not really articulating all that well. Just throwing that out there.

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Response to KPN (Reply #2)

Wed Sep 13, 2017, 04:39 PM

183. +1

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Response to SpicyBoi (Original post)

Wed Sep 13, 2017, 11:54 AM

3. That is simply not true

 

Bernie endorsed her and also campaigned for her. Stop blaming others for your own short comings!

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Response to Chasstev365 (Reply #3)

Wed Sep 13, 2017, 12:26 PM

32. Absolutely. He was unequivocal about it. NT

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Response to Chasstev365 (Reply #3)

Wed Sep 13, 2017, 01:35 PM

102. Mmmm, as I recall he and his people were going on TV saying

they wanted the supers to overturn the results, at the convention...in my book, that's not really support. I also recall his supporters at the convention booing and trying to yell down every POC and woman who gave a speech...not real support also. There is a huge difference between what Hillary did for Obama and what bernie did for Hillary.

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Response to all american girl (Reply #102)

Wed Sep 13, 2017, 02:59 PM

131. Not only that

but as I recall, Super Delegates (whose existence was heavily criticized by Bernie supporters) also reported being personally harassed and pressured about switching to Bernie by Bernie supporters as the basic delegate math began to favor Hillary.

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Response to Proud Liberal Dem (Reply #131)

Wed Sep 13, 2017, 03:21 PM

142. Yep, but too many people want to rewrite history

Not happening!!!!!!

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Response to all american girl (Reply #102)

Wed Sep 13, 2017, 03:25 PM

146. Did HE do that? Or did supporters do that?

He gave a speech the first night of the conventions saying that people should get behind Clinton in no uncertain terms.

By these measures, any objective observer will conclude that based on her ideas and her leadership, Hillary Clinton must become the next president of the United States.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/post-politics/wp/2016/07/26/transcript-bernie-sanderss-full-speech-at-the-2016-dnc/?utm_term=.bdd0b8cf3e14

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Response to TCJ70 (Reply #146)

Wed Sep 13, 2017, 03:34 PM

158. Before the convention happened he and his campaign

wanted to contest the convention...supers should go for him, even though he lost the popular vote and she had more delegates. If it was a super close primary, maybe, but losing by 4 million votes, that's not close, so no.

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Response to all american girl (Reply #102)

Wed Sep 13, 2017, 09:48 PM

225. There were no shortage of HRC supporters who pledged to vote for McCain

They came to the 2008 convention specifically with the intent of disrupting it. If Bernie has to own the worst sort from his supporters despite fully supporting HRC, then the same must be true in 2008.

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Response to Major Nikon (Reply #225)

Wed Sep 13, 2017, 11:42 PM

246. As has been pointed out, Hillary and Obama were much

closer in numbers; whereas, Bernie lost early on. Neither Hillary nor Obama smeared the Democratic Party in a cynical way to whip up support. There is no comparison. Hillary's 2008 Convention speech made it clear she was proud to be a Democrat and proud of the party.

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Response to R B Garr (Reply #246)

Thu Sep 14, 2017, 08:36 AM

269. If anything that directly contradicts the previous point

If HRC had more supporters, then her disrupters at the convention had a greater impact. The 2008 wasn't about HRC, it was about Obama. While HRC threw her support behind Obama, so did Bernie with HRC at the last convention, so those things most certainly do directly compare.

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Response to Major Nikon (Reply #269)

Thu Sep 14, 2017, 11:26 AM

275. Is this a response to my post? Not sure what "more suporters" has to do with

the fact that Sanders' was a cynical critic of the Democratic party and that is how the disruption played out at Hillary's convention. We all saw the nastiness on national TV, and here's Sarah Silverman telling the Bernie or Busters, "you're being ridiculous".


Neither Hillary nor Obama were critics of the Democratic party. No one said the 2008 convention was about Hillary. Hillary goes over this in her book, Hard Choices, how she admonished her supporters to get behind Obama, as she did. Her 2008 convention speech was very unifying of DEMOCRATS, it wasn't just a rehash of her campaign stump speech.


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Response to R B Garr (Reply #275)

Thu Sep 14, 2017, 11:40 AM

276. You replied to my response to a previous post

As such it's your duty to figure out what the conversation is about. If you want to take a different tack be my guest, but I'm not going to pretend I'm talking about something I am not.

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Response to Major Nikon (Reply #276)

Thu Sep 14, 2017, 11:56 AM

277. Okay. I did see the post you responded to, and "more supporters" wasn't the crux of it.

It was more about the behavior itself (edit, not just microphone interviews). It's quoted below. But maybe you picked up on some nuance in it that I didn't see.

"Mmmm, as I recall he and his people were going on TV saying

they wanted the supers to overturn the results, at the convention...in my book, that's not really support. I also recall his supporters at the convention booing and trying to yell down every POC and woman who gave a speech...not real support also. There is a huge difference between what Hillary did for Obama and what bernie did for Hillary. "

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Response to R B Garr (Reply #277)

Thu Sep 14, 2017, 12:06 PM

278. Folks with sour grapes are just part of convention politics

Always has been, always will be. The idea that this behavior isn't typical or is somehow unprecedented just isn't that solid. The difference was there were a lot of HRC supporters at the 2008 convention that specifically voiced their support for McCain over Obama which is far more egregious than trying to game the convention parliamentary procedure, IMO. Regardless I don't blame HRC for their bad behavior as it would be just as silly as blaming Bernie for the outliers at the 2016 convention.

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Response to Major Nikon (Reply #278)

Thu Sep 14, 2017, 01:52 PM

281. Hillary was correct in her book observations, though. She was not given the respect

from his supporters that she showed Obama. It was her 2016 convention, sour grapes or not. She put a lot of public shows of support out for Obama, and her speech did not rip on the Democratic party or go over only her talking points.

The behavior we saw was not just at the '16 convention. It was also in caucuses, as well. It was well documented over a couple years, but it culminated in the huge display of disrespect we saw at the convention.

The main difference is that neither Hillary nor Obama cynically attacked the Democratic party. So there is no comparison. Attacking Democrats didn't happen with Obama. Attacking Democrats didn't happen with Hillary. The shade thrown at Democrats was a big part of the enthusiasm that Bernie generated. That is well documented, and that is what we saw at the convention.

It looks like I did read your post correctly, after all. Hence my first response, which is that the comparisons are off because neither Hillary nor Obama dissed our party as we saw at the '16 convention.

This is about Hillary's new book, "What Happened."

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Response to Major Nikon (Reply #225)

Thu Sep 14, 2017, 09:41 AM

274. I think PUMAs are at the heart..

of the h8te percent.. 2 elections is hard to take, especially when Hillary was the obvious favorite headed into both.. I guess in a sad way I can't blame them for their fury..

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Response to Chasstev365 (Reply #3)

Wed Sep 13, 2017, 02:48 PM

127. Not starting at the normal time for it

He kept going long after he was mathematically out of the race.

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Response to treestar (Reply #127)

Wed Sep 13, 2017, 02:51 PM

129. So did she in 2008

 

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Response to Chasstev365 (Reply #129)

Wed Sep 13, 2017, 02:54 PM

130. Not as long

Not up to the convention. She was on board within days.

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Response to Chasstev365 (Reply #129)

Wed Sep 13, 2017, 03:26 PM

149. No, they were basically tied...

in fact the supers decided to go with Obama...the year was strange because 2 state were penalized so the didn't get all there delegates...and were states that Hillary won. So yes, there were some who felt the primary was taken from Hillary. But you can't compare 2008 to 2016...bernie lost at super Tuesday and could never make it up. He was never close to to win...no chance at all. He kept going and even thought the supers should vote against the 17 million who voted for her...so no, he did not do all that he could to support her. He went off, wrote a book, looked like he wanted to be anywhere but near her...it was disgusting for me to watch him.

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Response to all american girl (Reply #149)

Wed Sep 13, 2017, 03:39 PM

165. Yes, it was disgusting to watch, even after the primary contest ended. The cynicism about Democrats

was infuriating and very harmful. She is right, also, about the lasting damage that cynicism has cost our party.

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Response to Chasstev365 (Reply #3)

Wed Sep 13, 2017, 04:31 PM

178. Is there a public statement where he asked his supporters to vote for her?

 

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Response to haveahart (Reply #178)

Wed Sep 13, 2017, 06:22 PM

198. Yes; someone already put it on this thread!

 

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Response to Chasstev365 (Reply #3)

Wed Sep 13, 2017, 06:49 PM

207. Yes, exactly! nt

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Response to SpicyBoi (Original post)

Wed Sep 13, 2017, 11:55 AM

4. Sanders voters voted for Clinton at a higher rate

than Clinton voters voted for Obama.

But, you know, don't let facts get in the way.

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Response to Cuthbert Allgood (Reply #4)


Response to m-lekktor (Reply #6)

Wed Sep 13, 2017, 11:58 AM

7. The more that she attacks Bernie...

I fear that it will be that much longer to rebuild our party.

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Response to SpicyBoi (Reply #7)

Wed Sep 13, 2017, 12:06 PM

12. She's not attacking anyone.

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Response to NurseJackie (Reply #12)

Wed Sep 13, 2017, 12:10 PM

18. Saying you didn't get respect from someone...

Isn't an attack?

Okay.

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Response to SpicyBoi (Reply #18)

Wed Sep 13, 2017, 12:19 PM

21. That's correct. It's factual and neutral...

... but I suppose if someone is only accustomed to hearing nothing but praise for their favorite politician, then even a neutral statement could be perceived as an "attack".

In my view, an actual attack would be calling someone "feeble" or "corrupt" or "ideologically bankrupt" or "no different than a Republican". Now those are fighting-words.

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Response to NurseJackie (Reply #21)

Wed Sep 13, 2017, 12:19 PM

23. So calling Bernie supporters racist and sexist

Both attacks?

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Response to SpicyBoi (Reply #23)

Wed Sep 13, 2017, 12:24 PM

29. Can I have a link to Hillary

calling Sanders supporters either of those things. Thanks.

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Response to SpicyBoi (Reply #23)

Wed Sep 13, 2017, 12:47 PM

64. who knows

 

only those with true political, social, cultural discernment, when it comes to equality in ameriKKKa, would know. I know.

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Response to NurseJackie (Reply #21)

Wed Sep 13, 2017, 12:24 PM

30. 'someone is only accustomed to hearing nothing but praise for their favorite politician'

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Response to melman (Reply #30)

Wed Sep 13, 2017, 12:29 PM

37. LOL! I assure you, I'm not at all accustomed to hearing nonstop praise for Hillary. :-)

But isn't that a great photo of her?


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Response to NurseJackie (Reply #37)


Response to Post removed (Reply #43)

Wed Sep 13, 2017, 12:47 PM

66. LOL! That was your point?

Good try at recovering, but I'm afraid that's also a fail.

...to accuse others of fanboying...
Nobody is doing that... except, well... in post 43 perhaps.



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Response to Post removed (Reply #43)

Wed Sep 13, 2017, 03:09 PM

136. !



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Response to melman (Reply #30)

Wed Sep 13, 2017, 12:46 PM

63. Seems a most substantive, irrelevant and petulant point to make.

Seems a most substantive, irrelevant and petulant point to make... but I'm guessing you'll allege it's both relevant and substantive, as bias often compels us to rationalize what is otherwise, irrational.

So yeah... I get why you made your little point.

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Response to NurseJackie (Reply #21)

Wed Sep 13, 2017, 12:46 PM

61. No, not factual "Sanders: 'Clinton will make an outstanding president'"

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Response to Bucky (Reply #61)

Wed Sep 13, 2017, 12:57 PM

75. and since then?

 

when it comes to the Party that adopted, or was it the other way around, him to try to give his message a voice? SINCE THEN, Not so nice. Period.

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Response to heaven05 (Reply #75)

Wed Sep 13, 2017, 01:01 PM

81. We're talking about the 2016 election. If you want a new discussion, start a new thread.

Clinton was specifically referencing the way they each treated their respective nominees. The facts show there was no difference. Sanders and Clinton have somewhat different views of how to govern. He's under no obligation to stifle those differences after the election is over.

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Response to Bucky (Reply #81)

Wed Sep 13, 2017, 04:36 PM

181. yeah, yeah

 

tell that to someone who has been living in a cave, they might believe you about 2016. And you are right, there has been no stifling. I will agree on that point.

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Response to heaven05 (Reply #75)

Wed Sep 13, 2017, 01:38 PM

105. Way to move the goalposts.

So you admit that Clinton is wrong about what Sanders did in the general election?

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Response to Cuthbert Allgood (Reply #105)

Wed Sep 13, 2017, 04:42 PM

184. no

 

2016 was a disaster precisely because of what has been explained by my choice for POTUS in 2016. HRC. Period. No movement of goalposts, your deduction, because the truth IS known just why HRC lost to that disaster of a potus we have now. Their was a confluence of events and peop[le that destroyed our chance at any semblance of political normalcy.

I hope to see young, fresh faces in 2018-20 so that I can put the past to rest, like so many refuse to do politically.

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Response to Bucky (Reply #61)

Wed Sep 13, 2017, 03:06 PM

133. Excellent research and use of ACTUAL FACTS!

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Response to Bucky (Reply #61)

Wed Sep 13, 2017, 10:11 PM

234. this is what I remembered too

mostly staying of these threads but if she actually wrote that, it isn't how I remembered him acting.

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Response to NurseJackie (Reply #21)

Wed Sep 13, 2017, 01:37 PM

104. But it's not factual.

Sanders' supporters voted for Clinton at a higher rate than Clinton's supporters voter for Obama. That's a fact. And it completely contradicts that Sanders didn't do what she did. Well, he did it better, so he didn't do what she did, but that's not what she's saying.

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Response to NurseJackie (Reply #21)

Wed Sep 13, 2017, 02:27 PM

117. Except it isn't factual

 

A higher percentage of Sanders primary supporters voted for Clinton in 2016 than Clinton primary supporters voted for Obama in 2008.

The difference is that Obama won which papers over a lot of things and Clinton lost.

You talk about Sanders supporters not being able to understand an attack while passive aggressively attacking them. I'm sure the choir you're preaching to agrees, but it doesn't actually convince anybody else in my experience.

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Response to NurseJackie (Reply #21)

Wed Sep 13, 2017, 03:07 PM

134. It's not factual.

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Response to SpicyBoi (Reply #18)

Wed Sep 13, 2017, 02:13 PM

114. No it's not an attack. She said what she did when Obama defeated her in 2008, and she said....

....she didn't get that same respect from Sanders. That is true. I won't go through it again but look at how she acted shortly after the last primary in 2008 and how she acted during and after the convention in 2008. That was an indication of the respect she had for Obama.

Nothing similar happened in 2016, not even close.

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Response to SpicyBoi (Reply #18)

Wed Sep 13, 2017, 09:55 PM

227. No, it is not an attack

At all.

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Response to NurseJackie (Reply #12)

Wed Sep 13, 2017, 12:22 PM

26. Of course she is

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Response to melman (Reply #26)

Wed Sep 13, 2017, 12:23 PM

28. LOL

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Response to SpicyBoi (Reply #7)

Wed Sep 13, 2017, 12:06 PM

13. I decided to delete the comment you responded to because

I am uncertain if that poll i came across when I googled was before the 2008 election or after! I tried to do some more looking but didn't find anything immediately so I decided to just delete the comment because i wasn't 100 percent certain and didn't want to cause a shitstorm if the poll was before the election which wouldnt be an accurate reading.

But i agree with your comment in response generally speaking. Just look at "comments" sections of places outside of Democratic "safe spaces" like DU. wow.

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Response to m-lekktor (Reply #13)

Wed Sep 13, 2017, 12:09 PM

17. It doesn't do anything for us...

Bernie caught fire and all of his supporters loved him. It was Hillary's job to pitch why her message was aligned with Sanders.

Bernie can't give all of his supporters' energy to her with his words; she failed also.

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Response to SpicyBoi (Reply #17)

Wed Sep 13, 2017, 12:30 PM

38. No, it wasn't just about "catching fire", it was a cynical tactic to blame

the DNC and other Democrats to gain an advantage. Hillary didn't smear Democrats or the Democratic party. There is no comparison.

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Response to SpicyBoi (Reply #17)

Wed Sep 13, 2017, 12:34 PM

46. Yup. True dat

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Response to SpicyBoi (Reply #17)

Wed Sep 13, 2017, 12:40 PM

54. I'd Say She Lit Millions More Fires

Than BS or 45

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Response to SpicyBoi (Reply #7)

Wed Sep 13, 2017, 12:33 PM

42. That's not an attack. She's stating facts as she saw them.

And the book is written, it won't be rewritten, so she won't be discussing it much in the future.

Now, what about in the other direction?

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Response to George II (Reply #42)

Wed Sep 13, 2017, 02:07 PM

113. "Facts as she saw them"...

...there are facts and there are opinions. What she said is not a fact. If you have "facts as you see them" it's an opinion.

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Response to TCJ70 (Reply #113)

Wed Sep 13, 2017, 03:37 PM

162. Aren't "facts as you see them" nothing more than "alternate facts"?

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Response to Autumn (Reply #162)

Wed Sep 13, 2017, 03:45 PM

169. Why, yes, I believe they are, Autumn.

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Response to beam me up scottie (Reply #169)

Wed Sep 13, 2017, 04:29 PM

176. I knew it seemed familiar

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Response to George II (Reply #42)

Wed Sep 13, 2017, 03:28 PM

151. It is a fact that she directed her supporters towards Obama more than he did his

to support her. That is a fact, and she is correct. Even his tepid comments about her were couched in all his rhetoric from his losing primary platform, and he even said she won "the Democratic nominating process", as if he refuses to acknowledge the simple fact that more people voted for her, which is why she won -- THAT process of actually getting more votes he didn't acknowledge.

Hillary's 2008 Democratic Convention speech:

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Response to SpicyBoi (Reply #7)

Wed Sep 13, 2017, 12:56 PM

74. When did Sanders become a Democrat?

He used all their resources, but he ever allow HRC to use his voter database. His lackluster efforts to help her in the GE, or other Dem get elected was like pulling teeth. He couldn't even say her name.

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Response to Cuthbert Allgood (Reply #4)

Wed Sep 13, 2017, 12:19 PM

22. It's always going to come down to this:

Obama beat a respected (not by me) sitting Senator war hero with a reputation of being strong on international and defense issues. HRC lost to a six times bankrupt buffoon named Donald fucking Trump.

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Response to Hassin Bin Sober (Reply #22)

Wed Sep 13, 2017, 12:21 PM

25. when the economy was in literal free fall

with the other party in power but that has nothing at all to do with it I am sure.

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Response to dsc (Reply #25)

Wed Sep 13, 2017, 03:30 PM

154. So you're saying Obama loses if that's not the case?

That he lucked into the presidency?

What a pile.

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Response to BannonsLiver (Reply #154)

Wed Sep 13, 2017, 03:33 PM

157. Not to mention the stronger by far economy our party left up for grabs.

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Response to Hassin Bin Sober (Reply #157)


Response to Hassin Bin Sober (Reply #22)

Wed Sep 13, 2017, 12:43 PM

59. After First Beating A Senator Of Many DEcades

Lest we forget

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Response to Me. (Reply #59)

Wed Sep 13, 2017, 01:22 PM

92. Yeah, you're right. Hillary would have never beat McCain. Right?

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Response to Hassin Bin Sober (Reply #92)

Wed Sep 13, 2017, 02:07 PM

112. No Need For Snark

and you have no way of knowing whether or not she would've beat McCain.

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Response to Me. (Reply #112)

Wed Sep 13, 2017, 04:36 PM

180. Don't like when faulty logic gets turned aound, eh?

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Response to Hassin Bin Sober (Reply #180)

Wed Sep 13, 2017, 04:55 PM

189. The Only Faulty Logic Is Yours

Sad that you can't see it

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Response to Hassin Bin Sober (Reply #22)

Wed Sep 13, 2017, 01:30 PM

96. No not correct - Obama didn't have to cheat to win

Trump did!

Should I explain further, or is that enough for now?

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Response to FakeNoose (Reply #96)

Wed Sep 13, 2017, 01:36 PM

103. It wouldn't have done him any good. Obama actually had a positive approval rating.

He was one of the most (correction:most) popular candidates, based on approval rating, in modern history.

2016 was itself record breaking -- but for the opposite reason. Is that enough for now?

And that's not to say repigs didn't engage in their usual voter purges and disenfranchisement.

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Response to Hassin Bin Sober (Reply #103)

Wed Sep 13, 2017, 02:24 PM

116. I think we're saying the same thing a different way (?)

The only reason Trump won is because he cheated.

He (and the GOP and the Russians) stole the election from Hillary.

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Response to Hassin Bin Sober (Reply #103)

Wed Sep 13, 2017, 03:37 PM

163. Yep. Facts are inconvenient things.

There are many reasons she lost, having a robust primary opponent isn't one of them, in fact she was way ahead of Trump in the polls coming out of the convention.

HILLARY CLINTON LEADS BY A DOZEN IN LATEST AUGUST POLL
By Reuters On Tuesday, August 23, 2016

Democratic presidential nominee Hillary Clinton leads Republican rival Donald Trump by 12 percentage points among likely voters, her strongest showing this month, according to a Reuters/Ipsos opinion poll released on Tuesday. The August 18-22 poll showed that 45 percent of voters supported Clinton, while 33 percent backed Trump ahead of the Nov. 8 election.

Clinton, the former U.S. secretary of state, has led Trump, a New York businessman, throughout most of the 2016 campaign. But her latest lead represents a stronger level of support than polls indicated over the past few weeks. Earlier in August, Clinton's lead over Trump ranged from 3 to 9 percentage points in the poll.

http://www.newsweek.com/hillary-clinton-poll-donald-trump-492916

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Response to Hassin Bin Sober (Reply #22)

Wed Sep 13, 2017, 03:30 PM

155. +1,000,000

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Response to Cuthbert Allgood (Reply #4)

Wed Sep 13, 2017, 02:46 PM

125. Is there proof of that?

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Response to SpicyBoi (Original post)

Wed Sep 13, 2017, 11:58 AM

8. This IS starting to get old.

How about a little respect for others H? What's with the after-the-fact smearing? It strikes me as nothing more than fragile ego.

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Response to KPN (Reply #8)

Wed Sep 13, 2017, 12:05 PM

11. LOL

She's not smearing anyone.

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Response to NurseJackie (Reply #11)

Wed Sep 13, 2017, 12:06 PM

14. Sanders did tell his people to vote for her.

They did vote for her. At a higher rate than her supporters voted for Obama in 08.

That, to me, sounds like she is smearing Sanders.

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Response to Cuthbert Allgood (Reply #14)

Wed Sep 13, 2017, 12:09 PM

16. Uh-huh. Right.

That, to me, sounds like she is smearing Sanders.
That's on you, not Hillary.

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Response to NurseJackie (Reply #16)

Thu Sep 14, 2017, 07:31 AM

266. And she wonders why she lost?

If you don't consider how the voters might interpret your words and turn around and say well it's on you on how you interpret what I said. You deserve to get the results.

I'm tired of this. Other then perhaps helping HRC cope with the results of the election, I don't see how this book helps to move the Democratic Party forward.

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Response to sacto95834 (Reply #266)

Thu Sep 14, 2017, 07:41 AM

267. She's not "wondering" about it at all. She knows. She's telling us exactly What Happened.

I don't see how this book helps to move the Democratic Party forward.
It helps to to see the truth and allows us to examine the mistakes and hopefully avoid making them in the future.

Why would anyone object to that?

[WELCOME TO DU!]

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Response to Cuthbert Allgood (Reply #14)

Wed Sep 13, 2017, 11:42 PM

247. Thank you for chiming in and making good points.

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Response to KPN (Reply #8)

Wed Sep 13, 2017, 12:34 PM

44. Have you read the book, or just "reviews" of selected excerpts?

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Response to George II (Reply #44)

Wed Sep 13, 2017, 01:35 PM

101. Just reviews/excerpts.

Want to read it and will when I get my hands on a copy. Have you?

I can only react to what I have seen. And I can only react in accord with my feelings and principles ... or not react. When it comes to bad- mouthing Bernie Sanders for causing her to lose, or for not being "a loyal Democrat", I won't be silent. Bernie is causing the party to return to its roots in my view. That's a good thing and will mean good things for people going forward. As far as I'm concerned, from what I have read, a significant part of Hillary's book is sour grapes. She didn't need to do that. It's as if she's still fighting in the primary. I'm not sure what she wants or hopes to accomplish. Write about Trump, write about Russia-gate and why it's important for our country/ our Democracy to hold people accountable, write about long-term GOP attacks against her person, write about problems around our media and their effect on the democratic process. But writing about blame is sour grapes plain and simple.

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Response to KPN (Reply #101)

Wed Sep 13, 2017, 02:23 PM

115. The fact is that her comments about Sanders that can be construed as negative* are outweighed....

....by her comments about Sanders that can be construed as positive. And overall it is a positive book. However, she did have to get the negative things out of the way. If you saw any of her appearances this week, she's very positive and forward looking.

And you don't see it in any reviews, but she DID say good things about Sanders. But that doesn't make headlines. The negative stuff makes headlines.

*there were negative things said about Clinton in Sanders' books, too.

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Response to George II (Reply #115)

Wed Sep 13, 2017, 11:55 PM

248. I will read the book and make up my own mind on that.

Admittedly, I am biased toward Bernie just as you appear to be toward Hillary. The truth is, I would have rather voted for Bernie than Hillary but I didn't have that choice. I've followed Bernie for 20 years. He has been consistent with his message, his style and his behavior over all of those years. I admire that, not to mention I agreed with his views and positions 20 years ago.

For 20+ years, I've felt that the Democratic Party has been straying away from some of its core values especially as related to economic and job policy. I believe we are in the position we find ourselves in now in large part because of that. I believe in the Democratic Party and I am happy that Bernie and others are shaking it up a bit. Long overdue in my view.

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Response to KPN (Reply #8)

Wed Sep 13, 2017, 03:23 PM

143. Oh please, even though she had more votes in 2008...

 

she still respected the final outcome. That is anything but fragile.

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Response to KPN (Reply #8)

Wed Sep 13, 2017, 03:26 PM

148. Strikes me as one strong woman telling the truth.

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Response to SpicyBoi (Original post)

Wed Sep 13, 2017, 12:07 PM

15. They booed her at the convention during her speech

That was fucked up. Bunch of shitty assholes.

And booed other democrats. Especially the ones that were black.

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Response to JI7 (Reply #15)

Wed Sep 13, 2017, 12:12 PM

19. I remember that moment. It was very bad. It was embarrassing...

... to me that Al Franken and Sarah Silverman had to publicly scold them. I hated that. It was shameful.


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Response to NurseJackie (Reply #19)

Wed Sep 13, 2017, 12:36 PM

48. Yeah some of us have memories and he said he was bringing them to the convention

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Response to NurseJackie (Reply #19)

Wed Sep 13, 2017, 04:19 PM

175. Yes, great proof right there. Sarah Silverman telling them they were being ridiculous.

"You're being ridiculous". It was very shameful. And the divisiveness was so obvious that the Russian hackers picked up on it and stole Bernie's attacks for their own use. That's why Clinton is correct to say that it was many factors, but the lack of respect and support she got after the primaries was a catalyst for what was to come.

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Response to JI7 (Reply #15)

Wed Sep 13, 2017, 12:42 PM

57. Note the McCarthyism here.

OP headline: Clinton didn't get respect from Sanders.
Your defense of that smear: His supporters booed her at the convention.

Of course, even what you said is false if it's read to mean "all of his supporters". It was clearly a minority of his supporters, but even if it was every last one of them, it wasn't Bernie Sanders himself.

As has been pointed out on DU innumerable times:
* Sanders endorsed her (ticking off many of his supporters in the process -- one of the most honest and straightforward politicians in the country was called a "sellout" by some of them);
* Sanders campaigned for her extensively;
* The Sanders voters from the primaries voted for Clinton in higher proportion than the Clinton voters from the 2008 primaries voted for Obama.

It's absurd to hold a politician responsible for what all of his or her supporters do. For example, I believe that Hillary Clinton is not personally an anti-Semite, even though in the heat of the 2016 primaries it was not unheard-of for Clinton supporters to make anti-Semitic remarks about the first Jewish candidate to mount an effective campaign for the Presidency. (Sorry, Senator Lieberman, but your campaign went nowhere.)

I will say, in defense of utterly meritless posts like yours and many others, that the discussion on DU has been very instructive. It's clear that some people -- including, unfortunately, Hillary Clinton herself -- are still very focused on their hostility to Bernie Sanders. The flip side is that the discussions on JPR show that some people -- not including Bernie Sanders himself -- are still very focused on their hostility to Hillary Clinton. This will be a problem for the Democratic Party going forward.

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Response to Jim Lane (Reply #57)

Wed Sep 13, 2017, 01:30 PM

97. thank you for this sane post

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Response to Jim Lane (Reply #57)

Wed Sep 13, 2017, 01:45 PM

107. Thank you for that post.

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Response to Jim Lane (Reply #57)

Wed Sep 13, 2017, 01:57 PM

109. +1 n/t

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Response to Jim Lane (Reply #57)

Wed Sep 13, 2017, 02:02 PM

111. Thank you

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Response to Jim Lane (Reply #57)

Wed Sep 13, 2017, 03:12 PM

137. Excellent rebuttal! Nicely done!

As has been pointed out on DU innumerable times:
* Sanders endorsed her (ticking off many of his supporters in the process -- one of the most honest and straightforward politicians in the country was called a "sellout" by some of them);
* Sanders campaigned for her extensively;
* The Sanders voters from the primaries voted for Clinton in higher proportion than the Clinton voters from the 2008 primaries voted for Obama.

It's absurd to hold a politician responsible for what all of his or her supporters do. For example, I believe that Hillary Clinton is not personally an anti-Semite, even though in the heat of the 2016 primaries it was not unheard-of for Clinton supporters to make anti-Semitic remarks about the first Jewish candidate to mount an effective campaign for the Presidency. (Sorry, Senator Lieberman, but your campaign went nowhere.)


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Response to Jim Lane (Reply #57)

Wed Sep 13, 2017, 03:29 PM

152. Now that is an utterly meritless post.


Hillary Clinton is focused on the truth.

Problem for the Democratic Party going forward will be pretending Sanders won't keep doing it.

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Response to Justice (Reply #152)

Wed Sep 13, 2017, 04:55 PM

190. Exactly, it is a hilarious post. Comparing the behavior we all saw on national

television at the Democratic Convention (thanks to NurseJackie for reminding us of this clip about the poor behavior from Sanders' supporters there) to someone hunting down an anonymous post about anti-Semitism on another website is just utterly ridiculous and without merit.

When disdain and cynicism about Democrats was a huge catalyst for his support, it does make you wonder why he would give that up going forward.

Sarah Silverman at the 2016 Democratic Convention edit: she's speaking to Bernie or Bust 'You're being ridiculous"



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Response to R B Garr (Reply #190)

Wed Sep 13, 2017, 06:38 PM

200. That was at the convention when tensions were high...did Bernie not endorse her at that very convent

Did he not urge his supporters to vote for her?

Its been ten months, time to move on. Rehashing the past doesn't do anything positive when we have elections 14 months away...

Get focused, or get out of the way...

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Response to WoonTars (Reply #200)

Wed Sep 13, 2017, 06:40 PM

201. You should take your own advice.

LOL

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Response to R B Garr (Reply #201)

Wed Sep 13, 2017, 06:46 PM

203. I'm not the one here getting all mad about something that happened a year ago.

Move on. There are elections 14 months from now. Time to get in the game, or stay on the sidelines licking your wounds...

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Response to WoonTars (Reply #203)

Wed Sep 13, 2017, 06:47 PM

205. You should take your own advice. There are a lot of things I could suggest for you to do. nt

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Response to R B Garr (Reply #205)

Wed Sep 13, 2017, 08:01 PM

214. Likewise.

...

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Response to WoonTars (Reply #214)

Wed Sep 13, 2017, 08:11 PM

216. Oh, I figured that's what this was really about. Time to move on from 2016 in

so many ways, not just what happened in November. Hillary Clinton got millions more votes than any of her competitors and that speaks to her immense popularity, especially with her book.

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Response to R B Garr (Reply #216)

Wed Sep 13, 2017, 08:21 PM

220. This is really about 2018. Try and keep up.

Settling old scores from last year solve nothing...we need to focus on the upcoming elections...

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Response to WoonTars (Reply #220)

Wed Sep 13, 2017, 09:00 PM

223. Your comment to a long-term DUer told me a lot about your "fixations",

and this thread really isn't about 2018. It's about Hillary's book. It's always interesting how the same tactics of making things personal come up by the same people. You have no business to order me around and tell me what to think. Support Democrats....that's what *I'm* doing. Electing Democrats is the goal.

Kamala Harris 2020. Adam Schiff 2020. Cory Booker 2020. Al Gore...even...2020. ELECT DEMOCRATS

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Response to R B Garr (Reply #223)

Wed Sep 13, 2017, 09:58 PM

228. Please show me where i "told you what to think"...

I did suggest you quit whining about the last election and concentrate on the next one, but sure, you believe whatever floats your boat.

I'll support whomever can win in 2020 and end Trump's reign of error.

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Response to WoonTars (Reply #228)

Wed Sep 13, 2017, 10:14 PM

237. I suggest you quit whining, too.

You should quit whining about the election, too. Hillary is still very popular, I'll quote her if I want to. My state voted for her overwhelmingly. I have my own state Senators I support --time for you to accept the facts and move on,

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Response to Justice (Reply #152)

Wed Sep 13, 2017, 06:34 PM

199. Project much?

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Response to Jim Lane (Reply #57)

Wed Sep 13, 2017, 04:51 PM

188. Thank you. Agreed 1000% nt

 

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Response to Jim Lane (Reply #57)

Wed Sep 13, 2017, 05:28 PM

191. Thank you. n/t

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Response to Jim Lane (Reply #57)

Wed Sep 13, 2017, 05:31 PM

192. Very well said. Thank you. nt

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Response to Jim Lane (Reply #57)

Wed Sep 13, 2017, 06:48 PM

206. Excellent post

And flawless logic. Good to see some clarity.

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Response to Jim Lane (Reply #57)

Wed Sep 13, 2017, 07:10 PM

211. thank you

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Response to Jim Lane (Reply #57)

Thu Sep 14, 2017, 05:36 PM

283. Good points, Jim.

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Response to JI7 (Reply #15)

Wed Sep 13, 2017, 06:53 PM

208. Which has nothing to do with this topic

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Response to SpicyBoi (Original post)

Wed Sep 13, 2017, 12:12 PM

20. The PUMAs were frauds.

Notice that none of the ones who were still around in 2016 came back in the Democratic fold when she became the nominee. The vast majority of her real supporters followed her lead in supporting Obama.

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Response to Bleacher Creature (Reply #20)

Wed Sep 13, 2017, 12:27 PM

33. Except of course this guy

 

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Response to Bleacher Creature (Reply #20)

Wed Sep 13, 2017, 05:39 PM

193. the PUMAs were frauds but the BernieBros were the real deal?

How about this: both were media hyped fictions. In both cases the vast majority of Clinton and Sanders supporters went on to vote for the Democratic candidate. In both cases the loser of the primaries endorsed and campaigned for the winner.

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Response to Voltaire2 (Reply #193)

Wed Sep 13, 2017, 06:06 PM

197. Neither Obama nor Clinton demeaned the Democratic party. That is the huge difference

with what we saw last year, and there is no comparison. Sanders' was cynical and demeaning of the Democratic party, and there is no doubt that a portion of that extreme cynicism and disrespect played out by withholding votes from the Democrat. There is no comparison.

Here's the comedian, Sarah Silverman, at the 2016 Democratic convention calling the Bernie or Busters out, "You're being ridiculous". Thanks to NurseJackie for posting this here -- an excellent reminder of the nastiness. Thanks to Clinton for calling it out, as well. It's about time.



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Response to R B Garr (Reply #197)

Wed Sep 13, 2017, 06:43 PM

202. Bullshit. Absolute bullshit.

That was AT THE FUCKING CONVENTION when people were still hoping to get their candidate in...

At the convention Bernie endorsed her, wholeheartedly, and urged his supporters to do the same.

Why not focus your ire on the 53% of white women that voted for Trump? They just get a pass??

It's over. Deal with it. Focus on next year.

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Response to WoonTars (Reply #202)

Wed Sep 13, 2017, 06:47 PM

204. You should take your own advice. Deal with it yourself. And it certainly

WASN'T just at the convention. Obviously NOT, and you are just irritated that a bit of reality is out there now that Clinton can finally have her say. Tough, that's life. She has a story to tell, and I agree with her totally. No more trying to force reality on people who saw the abuse of her for themselves.

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Response to R B Garr (Reply #204)

Wed Sep 13, 2017, 08:00 PM

213. Oh please...

...it's been ten months

I'm irritated at people that continue to re-litigate the primaries/convention all over again...we have more important things that CAN be impacted, i.e. the elections next year to focus on.

You want to concentrate on the past, fine, don't complain when the train has already left the station.

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Response to WoonTars (Reply #213)

Wed Sep 13, 2017, 08:09 PM

215. You should take your own advice. I've seen your posts and you should take

your own advice.

Hillary Clinton wrote a book, and lots of people want to hear from her. Sanders is not my Senator and I have no need to protect him. That train has also left the station as that was last year, as well.

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Response to R B Garr (Reply #215)

Wed Sep 13, 2017, 08:19 PM

218. I'm sorry, "that was last year"? Remind me, of the two of them who is still in politics?

Introducing legislation, and which one is on the talk-show circuit?

I've seen enough of yours to know that you are fixated on the past and settling old scores...which is of absolutely no use for the elections in 14 months time...

Good luck to you...

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Response to WoonTars (Reply #218)

Wed Sep 13, 2017, 08:55 PM

222. My fixation is getting Democrats elected. The biggest way to help is not smear them and

lie about them, otherwise we can expect more of the same nasty results that cost us in the past. I also saw a comment you made to a long-term DU'er that made me realize how much *you* are fixated on the past.....

You're not my keeper and have no business telling me what to think.




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Response to R B Garr (Reply #222)

Wed Sep 13, 2017, 10:00 PM

229. Never told you what to think.

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Response to SpicyBoi (Original post)


Response to SpicyBoi (Original post)

Wed Sep 13, 2017, 12:25 PM

31. Everytime I feel sympathy for Clinton she does stuff like this.

I still regret she lost for the sake of the country, but I have no sympathy for her anymore on a personal level. Sanders told his supporters to back her and campaigned on her behalf.

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Response to white_wolf (Reply #31)

Wed Sep 13, 2017, 12:28 PM

35. That's how I remember it, too.

In retrospect, she should have had Bernie as VP to pick up the outsider vote . . . considering it was an outsider year.

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Response to Vinca (Reply #35)

Wed Sep 13, 2017, 01:06 PM

84. He would have sabotaged her even more as VP candidate.

Bernie and Hillary obviously despise each other and would have been a disastrous team. In any event Bernie doesn't do team work very well.

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Response to comradebillyboy (Reply #84)

Wed Sep 13, 2017, 01:31 PM

98. you certainly are smearing people very vigorously with very little evidence

except for your crystal ball.

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Response to ProfessorPlum (Reply #98)

Wed Sep 13, 2017, 01:46 PM

108. I have opinions just like everyone else here at DU

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Response to comradebillyboy (Reply #108)

Wed Sep 13, 2017, 03:14 PM

139. And the ability to predict things that didn't happen

A unique skill indeed

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Response to comradebillyboy (Reply #84)

Wed Sep 13, 2017, 03:38 PM

164. I don't think they despised each other. You're mistaking Bernie's natural, cranky nature

for dislike of Hillary, but that's not the case. He's just like that. Kind of cranky. And people love him that way. As I recall he made it pretty clear he wanted his supporters to vote for her.

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Response to Vinca (Reply #35)

Wed Sep 13, 2017, 02:47 PM

126. He didn't campaign for her in June or July, even though his win was mathematically

impossible in May. He announced after the July convention that he'd be returning to the Senate as an Independent. He didn't campaign for her in August. In September he finally did two events, and another handful in October.

In retrospect there was little she could have done because Comey was about to drop the letter bombs, and voter suppression and Russian meddling would also be key to her loss.

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Response to pnwmom (Reply #126)

Wed Sep 13, 2017, 03:02 PM

132. He campaigned for her plenty and other DUers in this thread have provided video and transcripts. eom

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Response to white_wolf (Reply #132)

Wed Sep 13, 2017, 03:08 PM

135. Nothing I said was untrue. Waiting till the second half of September was waiting too long.

Too many of his supporters had already lost interest in the election.

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Response to pnwmom (Reply #135)

Wed Sep 13, 2017, 03:16 PM

140. He announced his support for her at the DNC.

Beyond that, if Clinton could not earn the support of Sanders' voters then that is on her. She was the candidate. It was her responsibility.

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Response to white_wolf (Reply #140)

Wed Sep 13, 2017, 03:25 PM

145. Like I said, too little, too late.

Mathematically, he had lost the chance of winning by early May.

He should have campaigned much harder for Hillary, and he shouldn't have announced his departure from the party as soon as the convention was over -- which many of his supporters viewed as a signal. His book publication could have waited till a few months after the election.

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Response to white_wolf (Reply #31)

Wed Sep 13, 2017, 12:29 PM

36. Amen. I agree 100%

Now duck for incoming ...

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Response to white_wolf (Reply #31)

Wed Sep 13, 2017, 12:32 PM

41. LOL. She's not seeking sympathy.

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Response to NurseJackie (Reply #41)

Wed Sep 13, 2017, 12:34 PM

45. I don't care what she's doing. Her comments were simply false.

You can LOL all you want. That doesn't make what she said anymore true and we both know it.

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Response to white_wolf (Reply #45)

Wed Sep 13, 2017, 12:42 PM

56. I believe she's telling the truth. (Are you calling Hillary a liar?)

Her comments were simply false.
Ah, okay... got it! So you're calling Hillary a liar. Charming.

That doesn't make what she said anymore true and we both know it.
Actually, you're in no position to speak for me and for what I know. I've already told you what I believe. Feel free to contradict me if you like, but you really can't speak FOR me.

LOL!

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Response to NurseJackie (Reply #56)

Wed Sep 13, 2017, 12:47 PM

65. She's either lying or mistaken

She's either mistaken or lying. Sanders is on record telling his supporters to vote for Clinton. It's not his fault she didn't know that. Attack me all you want, use the alert button. I don't care. I'm not going to twist logic myself into a pretzel over this. Her statements were incorrect. Either she is mistaken or is she is intentionally not telling the truth.

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Response to white_wolf (Reply #65)

Wed Sep 13, 2017, 12:54 PM

71. "Attack me all you want, use the alert button." Nobody is attacking you.

Either she is mistaken or is she is intentionally not telling the truth.
Hillary isn't lying. She's not mistaken. She's not being misleading (or any other euphemism you can think of for "politely" calling her a liar.)

It's not his fault she didn't know that.
She's smarter than you're giving her credit for. She was paying attention, and so was I... that's why I trust her. Hillary speaks the truth, and I happen to agree with her.

She deserves to be heard. She deserves to have her say and tell her story without being silenced or shouted down by people calling her a LIAR (yet again).

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Response to NurseJackie (Reply #71)

Wed Sep 13, 2017, 01:17 PM

90. In this instance, she is wrong.

The facts are simple. Sanders urged his supporters to vote for her. There is video evidence of this happening. Clinton says that did not happen. She has every right to tell her story. I have every right to point out that certain aspects of her story do not line up with what actually happened.

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Response to white_wolf (Reply #65)

Wed Sep 13, 2017, 01:09 PM

87. It can only be one of those things. I'm going to give her the benefit of the doubt for now

and say she was mistaken.

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Response to NurseJackie (Reply #56)

Wed Sep 13, 2017, 01:00 PM

79. I can't speak for white wolf, but I'll give you my own answer.

To say "Hillary Clinton is a liar" has a definite connotation that it's referring to her overall behavior. I would avoid such a statement, about her or anyone else, unless I had enough evidence to make a comprehensive assessment.

I do, however, feel comfortable in asserting that specific statements are falsehoods. Her statement in the first debate in 2015 that she had said she "hoped" the TPP would set the gold standard was false, as can be seen by examining the transcript of her speech in Adelaide. She did not use the word "hope" and that wouldn't be a fair paraphrase of what she did say. In the more recent ruckus triggered by her book, it's been reported that in What Happened she charges that Bernie Sanders picked up her proposals on infrastructure and youth unemployment and advocated the same things, "only bigger." If she said that, it's a falsehood, because he was advancing those proposals much earlier in the campaign.

Some on DU have charged that people are saying she shouldn't write a book at all -- and there've been insinuations or outright accusations that her critics are motivated by sexism. To be clear, I'm not challenging her right to write a book. But if she chooses to write a book, she has to expect that people who disagree with some things in it will exercise their right to criticize it.

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Response to Jim Lane (Reply #79)

Wed Sep 13, 2017, 04:34 PM

179. Well said.

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Response to white_wolf (Reply #45)

Wed Sep 13, 2017, 12:53 PM

69. Well the propaganda worked well on you - calling our nominee a liar is bad form.

 

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Response to bettyellen (Reply #69)

Wed Sep 13, 2017, 12:55 PM

72. Her statements aren't correct.

Last edited Wed Sep 13, 2017, 03:31 PM - Edit history (1)

I saw Sanders urge his supporters to vote for Clinton. I saw it multiple times. I won't deny the evidence of my own eyes to defend a politician.

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Response to white_wolf (Reply #72)

Wed Sep 13, 2017, 03:19 PM

141. Nicely done.

Last edited Thu Sep 14, 2017, 12:26 AM - Edit history (1)

Your posts are spot on, we all saw Bernie's impassioned pleas to his supporters to vote for Hillary and how he crisscrossed the country stumping for her.

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Response to white_wolf (Reply #31)

Wed Sep 13, 2017, 12:57 PM

76. This is how Sanders "supported" Clinton...

VIGOROUSLY!!

Sanders: 'Clinton will make an outstanding president'
http://www.politico.com/story/2016/07/bernie-sanders-endorses-hillary-clinton-225412

Bernie Sanders endorses Hillary Clinton
http://www.cnn.com/2016/07/11/politics/hillary-clinton-bernie-sanders/index.html

TRANSCRIPT: Sanders - 'Why I'm endorsing Hillary Clinton'
http://thehill.com/blogs/pundits-blog/presidential-campaign/287370-transcript-bernie-sanders-formally-endorses-hillary

Bernie Sanders Packs Schedule With Campaign Stops for Hillary Clinton - (October)
https://www.wsj.com/articles/bernie-sanders-packs-schedule-with-campaign-stops-for-hillary-clinton-1475928002

Bernie Sanders Goes 'All In' for Hillary Clinton With an Eye Toward Post-Election Goals - (November)
http://abcnews.go.com/Politics/bernie-sanders-hillary-clinton-eye-post-election-goals/story?id=43300037


Were the few "Bernie Bros" absolute tools for not turning out in November? Sure. But Sanders did all he could to get them to vote for her--the record is unambiguous. It was heartbreaking that she didn't close the deal in a few swing states so that the national popular will was thwarted. But he did all he could do to help our side.

That said, I hope he doesn't run in 2020. We need fresh faces on the ticket. Democrats always win when we nominate younger candidates (FDR was 50; Kennedy, 43; Bill Clinton, 46; Obama, 47).

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Response to Bucky (Reply #76)

Wed Sep 13, 2017, 01:32 PM

99. thank you

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Response to Bucky (Reply #76)

Thu Sep 14, 2017, 01:51 AM

261. Some support


https://www.nbcnews.com/news/us-news/bernie-sanders-offers-no-concession-address-supporters-n594091

what Sanders did not say was anything conciliatory about Clinton.

He used the present tense to note that he and Clinton “have strong disagreements on some very important issues.” He did add that “our views are quite close on others.”

And while he said he wanted to work with Clinton, he suggested it would be on his terms.

“I also look forward to working with Secretary Clinton to transform the Democratic Party so that it becomes a party of working people and young people, and not just wealthy campaign contributors,” Sanders said.

He encouraged supporters to run for elected office and set up a page to collect their information.

He also criticized the Democratic Party for not working harder in parts of the country that don’t typically vote Democratic, calling loses in state legislatures under President Obama “unacceptable.”

===============

With support like this, who needs enemies?

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Response to white_wolf (Reply #31)

Wed Sep 13, 2017, 02:50 PM

128. He didn't do a single campaign event till the two he did in September.

No campaign events for her in June ( though he lost by May), none in July, none in August. Just the two in September and a handful in October.

He was too busy writing the book he had under contract to come out immediately after the election.

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Response to pnwmom (Reply #128)

Thu Sep 14, 2017, 01:05 AM

259. And dont forget the tantrum he threw, when asked to make an ad:

 

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Response to Adenoid_Hynkel (Reply #259)

Thu Sep 14, 2017, 01:52 AM

262. Such a petty, small man

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Response to SpicyBoi (Original post)

Wed Sep 13, 2017, 12:31 PM

40. Goddamn. The Clinton hate is strong on this motherfucker today. nt

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Response to LexVegas (Reply #40)

Wed Sep 13, 2017, 12:39 PM

53. I noticed that.

Their are number of DUers that seem to be terrified that her references in her book may bring increased scrutiny by the Media and others to public officials mentioned.

+100000 for future exposure!!!!



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Response to LexVegas (Reply #40)

Wed Sep 13, 2017, 12:59 PM

78. Wrong!

 

Almost all of us voted for Hillary. It's just that we don't think she was flawless and cannot under any circumstances criticized.

Most of the time the media was unfair to her and activiely worked for Trump the way they always favor the Republican. It's also true that Bernie slammed her for her Wall Street speaking fees and Trump used that against her.

However, not going to the Swing States the week before the election was a critical mistake. How is that Bernie Sanders' fault?

Also in 2008, she cited Robert Kennedy's assassination as a reason to stay in the race with the first serious African American candidate. Ruthless and jawdropping. Did Barack Obama complain how mean she was?
Hillary is not a goddess and criticizing her does not make someone a misogynist and anti-democratic party.

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Response to LexVegas (Reply #40)

Wed Sep 13, 2017, 02:01 PM

110. +1

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Response to LexVegas (Reply #40)

Wed Sep 13, 2017, 05:45 PM

194. It hsbn't gone unnoticed.

 

I'll remember every last Hillary hater for the rest of my days.

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Response to Lee Adama (Reply #194)

Wed Sep 13, 2017, 07:17 PM

212. Do you recommend that those of us who voted for Bernie emulate you?

I know, you probably think there are no Bernie haters for us to remember for the rest of our days. Someone who criticizes Hillary is a Hillary hater. Someone who criticizes Bernie is just bravely speaking the truth.

You might want to consider that some progressives, who are ardently resisting Trump, have a perspective that differs from yours. If we all go around vowing to remember the disagreements of the past, guess who benefits.

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Response to Jim Lane (Reply #212)

Wed Sep 13, 2017, 08:29 PM

221. My perspective? I will NEVER forgive not forget those who put Trump in office.

 

NEVER!

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Response to Lee Adama (Reply #221)

Wed Sep 13, 2017, 10:04 PM

232. There is, of course, some difference in perspective as to who put Trump in office.

There are different groups of people who did not vote for Trump but who, in various quarters, get blamed for putting him in office. Such groups include, just for starters, those who voted for Clinton in the primary and those who voted for Sanders in the primary. Arguing about that seems to me to be unfruitful.

Even as to those who actually voted for him, however, there's disagreement on DU, specifically in the case of those who sincerely repent. I'm willing to forgive them. My forgiveness doesn't determine who gets into Heaven -- I don't even believe in the place, but even if it's real, determining who gets in is clearly above my pay grade. All my forgiveness means is that I'm willing to work with them to undo as much of the damage as we can and move forward. Onward Together, if I may borrow a phrase.

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Response to Jim Lane (Reply #232)

Wed Sep 13, 2017, 11:31 PM

244. Nothing you have to say will EVER change my perspective as to who is responsible.

 

Nor will I EVER forgive or forget them,

They are my political enemies every bit as much as those who supported Trump from the beginning.

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Response to SpicyBoi (Original post)

Wed Sep 13, 2017, 12:38 PM

51. Is that statement not true? By the way, she wasn't only talking about anyone's supporters....

...she was talking primarily about the candidate himself who was in the same position she was in eight years earlier.

Just a reminder - in 2008 Hillary Clinton conceded days after the last primary, supported him from the floor throughout the convention, and went out on the campaign trail with Obama just days after the convention ended.

It was entirely different last year.

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Response to George II (Reply #51)

Wed Sep 13, 2017, 12:39 PM

52. Yeah it's untrue.

Sanders urged his supporters to vote for her many times. He made the statements at the DNC. He worked on her behalf on the campaign trail. Her comments are false. If we want to attack those morons who didn't vote for her then that's fine. They were freaking morons for going third party or Trump, but that doesn't mean Sanders didn't urge his supporters to vote for her.

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Response to white_wolf (Reply #52)

Wed Sep 13, 2017, 12:49 PM

68. I guess it's a matter of opinion or interpretation. As I said, Clinton was on the floor...

...of the convention urging support for Barack Obama. Sanders spent most of the time prior to the floor vote up in the gallery.

Clinton conceded to Obama and endorsed him on June 7, 2008 - the last primary was on June 3, and began campaigning with and for Obama days after the convention.

Sanders conceded to Clinton and endorsed her on July 12, 2016 - the last primary was on June 14, and began campaigning for her after Labor Day.

She was talking about her respect for Barack Obama, and how it was different in 2016. That most certainly was true.

To potential alerters, this is NOT "re-fighting the primaries", it's a response to material contained in her book and comments made here in this thread.

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Response to white_wolf (Reply #52)

Wed Sep 13, 2017, 12:55 PM

73. He damned her w feint praise. Spent weeks writing a book instead of stumping for her....

 

But Sept 16 was a better time to write a book than after November I guess. I can't wrap my head around that. Taking it to convention was disturbing, too many people thought the will of the people should be overturned somehow. Not sure where they got that stupid idea.

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Response to white_wolf (Reply #52)

Wed Sep 13, 2017, 04:38 PM

182. Direct quotes from Snopes quoting Sanders. Doesn't seem to be asking voters to vote for Clinton

 

I think if we end up losing — and I hope we do not — and if Secretary Clinton wins, it is incumbent upon her to tell millions of people who right now do not believe in establishment politics or establishment economics, who have serious misgivings about a candidate who has received millions of dollars from Wall Street and other special interests.

"She has got to go out to you and to millions of other people and say, yes, I think the United States should join the rest of the industrialized world and take on the private insurance companies and the greed of the drug companies and pass a Medicare for all.

I think that says Secretary Clinton, that for the young people in this country, you should not have to leave college $30,000, $50,000, $70,000 in debt because we’re going to make as many other countries around the world do, public colleges and universities tuition-free. I think Secretary Clinton is going to have to explain to millions of young people and a lot of other people that climate change is a real crisis and incrementalism is just not going to solve it … she is going to have to come on board and say, yes, I know it’s hard, but I am going to take on the fossil fuel industry and pass a carbon tax.

So the — the point that I am making is, it is incumbent upon Secretary Clinton to reach out not only to my supporters, but to all of the American people, with an agenda that they believe will represent the interests of working families, lower income people, the middle class, those of us who are concerned about the environment and not just big money interests.
Sanders prefaced his remarks by addressing the notion that he could influence his base of supporters to vote for Clinton, saying something similar in spirit to the words reproduced above:

And let me answer it, uh, in this way. Um, first, um, I think it is, you know, we are not a movement where I can snap my fingers and say to you or to anybody else what you should do, because you won’t listen to me. You shouldn’t. Uh, you’ll make these decisions yourself."

So, you decide.

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Response to George II (Reply #51)

Wed Sep 13, 2017, 12:41 PM

55. Everyone wants to ignore that month long mess it seems.

Nothing that came of that was helpful at all. Remember the platform writing committee outrage when a minority was out voted?

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Response to SpicyBoi (Original post)

Wed Sep 13, 2017, 12:44 PM

60. I believe some

Want to keep this going because they are supporters of maggot or Russia.

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Response to SpicyBoi (Original post)

Wed Sep 13, 2017, 12:46 PM

62. That is complete bullshit.

Well the headline is a lie at any rate. Sanders endorsed her and urged his supports to vote for her.

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Response to SpicyBoi (Original post)

Wed Sep 13, 2017, 12:49 PM

67. Wake me up when the book tour is over

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Response to BeyondGeography (Reply #67)

Wed Sep 13, 2017, 01:06 PM

85. I gloomily suspect that that won't help.

Prediction: In the first calendar month that begins after the book tour ends, there will be posts on DU bashing Bernie Sanders.

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Response to SpicyBoi (Original post)

Wed Sep 13, 2017, 12:53 PM

70. That's not true. Sanders did urge us to vote for her and most of us did.

https://www.cnbc.com/2016/07/13/bernie-sanders-why-i-endorsed-hillary-clinton-commentary.html


In terms of the presidential election this November, there is no doubt that the election of Donald Trump as president would be a devastating blow to all that we are fighting for. His openly bigoted and pro-billionaire campaign could precipitate the same decades-long rightward shift in American politics that happened after the election of Ronald Reagan in 1980. That rightward shift after Reagan's election infected not just politics as a whole but led to the ascendancy of the corporatist wing of the Democratic Party — an era from which we are still recovering. I cannot in good conscience let that happen.

To have all of the work we have done in elevating our progressive ideals be dashed away by a complete Republican takeover of Washington — a takeover headed by a candidate that demonizes Latinos, Muslims, women, African Americans, veterans, and others — would be unthinkable.


Today, I endorsed Hillary Clinton to be our next president. I know that some of you will be disappointed with that decision. But I believe that, at this moment, our country, our values, and our common vision for a transformed America, are best served by the defeat of Donald Trump and the election of Hillary Clinton.




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Response to SpicyBoi (Original post)

Wed Sep 13, 2017, 01:01 PM

80. If Bernie had never been born, would Hillary have won the general?

 

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Response to Not Ruth (Reply #80)

Wed Sep 13, 2017, 01:11 PM

88. Probably not. In fact, she wouldn't have done as well as she actually did.

Bernie's campaign brought new people into the political process, people who'd previously been nonvoters. Most of them then voted for Clinton in the general. I can't quantify it, but my guess is that they outnumber people who, in a Bernieless world, would have half-heartedly voted for Clinton, but who were alienated by her campaign and who therefore voted Stein or sat it out.

There's one conclusion that's very clear. Bernie is sometimes accused of being divisive like Nader. If Bernie had emulated Nader by running in the general election, as an independent or on the Green Party line, Trump would have carried all the states he actually carried, plus some additional states, and he would probably have won the popular vote in reality.

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Response to Jim Lane (Reply #88)

Wed Sep 13, 2017, 01:34 PM

100. that's exactly right

some people want to treat him like a spoiler candidate, when in fact, he was never a candidate for the presidency. Just the nomination.

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Response to Jim Lane (Reply #88)

Wed Sep 13, 2017, 03:26 PM

147. Good point, if he had run as a spoiler they would be right to accuse him of that.

But Bernie ran against her in the Democratic primary, he lost, conceded, endorsed and then campaigned for her. I think pushing her to the left made her a better candidate.

Isn't that how it's done? And how was he disrespectful?

That claim makes no sense.

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Response to Not Ruth (Reply #80)

Wed Sep 13, 2017, 02:45 PM

124. If he had never been allowed to run as a Democrat

She would have won the general. That was the big mistake.

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Response to treestar (Reply #124)

Wed Sep 13, 2017, 04:31 PM

177. I completely disagree, but I have a question I've never gotten answered.

Over and over on DU, I see people expressing this view -- that Bernie should not have been "allowed" to run for the Democratic nomination. Some say specifically that the DNC shouldn't have allowed it.

My question is whether the DNC actually had the power to exclude him. In general, ballot access is determined under state law. For example, there are varied requirements for petition signatures that a candidate must submit to qualify for the primary ballot.

AFAIK, the DNC never voted to "allow" Bernie in -- because it couldn't. Am I missing something?

As to what would have happened, it seems obvious to me that you're completely off base. Before he entered the race, he considered running as an independent in November, instead of working within the Democratic Party. If he had done that, splitting the vote, Trump would have carried even more states.

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Response to SpicyBoi (Original post)

Wed Sep 13, 2017, 01:01 PM

83. the PUMAs voted for Clinton

And she was 100% behind Obama, immediately. Sanders did not demonstrate the same kind of support for Clinton that she did for Obama. That's a simple fact. It's clear in how long it took for him to endorse her and the content of his speeches at what were supposed to be campaign events for Hillary.

Additionally, the discussions we see on this site prove the two primaries were not comparable. There has never been a situation like this before. And the divisions are at least as great now as they were last summer.

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Response to SpicyBoi (Original post)

Wed Sep 13, 2017, 02:36 PM

118. ...

Yes, he did urge his supporters. And he made it very clear how much better she would be than Trump. But some were non-transferable. Sick of the Bernie-bashing and the Bernie supporter bashing. Most of us who supported him in the primaries did vote for her in the General. Many of us still admire him and his message. Time to move on. We'll only find ourselves losing more election cycles if we can't come together and if we waste energy blaming those who are allies. But the truth is, the party does need to change. We are not in a good place. Yes, Republicans have rigged the game, but atm they control every seat of power. And "We're not as bad as the other side" is just not gonna cut it for the wave we need to wrest power back. We're gonna have to have a coherent message that resonates across a large enough segment of voters that we can overcome the obstacles. There are more of us than them. We need to vote in overwhelming numbers to actually win. Part of that means leadership at all levels that inspires and unites rather than dividing.

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Response to SpicyBoi (Original post)

Wed Sep 13, 2017, 02:37 PM

119. Oh Hillary

Respect goes both ways.

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Response to SpicyBoi (Original post)

Wed Sep 13, 2017, 02:38 PM

120. and the circular firing squad continues (referring to the comments in this thread). nt

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Response to SpicyBoi (Original post)

Wed Sep 13, 2017, 02:43 PM

121. Was this a lie? "Sanders pleads with supporters to vote for Hillary."

“We need leadership in this country which will improve the lives of working families, the children, the elderly, the sick and the poor. We need leadership which brings our people together and makes us stronger – not leadership which insults Latinos, Muslims, women, African-Americans and veterans – and divides us up,” he said.

“By these measures, Hillary Clinton must become the next president of the United States. The choice is not even close.”


http://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/americas/us-elections/dnc-2016-bernie-sanders-pleads-with-his-supporters-to-vote-for-hillary-clinton-a7155966.html

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Response to SpicyBoi (Original post)

Wed Sep 13, 2017, 02:43 PM

122. She campaigned hard for Obama, beginning in early June.

Though it was mathematically impossible for him to win by May, Bernie campaigned for himself all the way to the convention. After the convention he announced that he would be returning to the Senate not as a Democrat, but as an Independent. Then he spent the rest of July, all of August, and most of September writing his book. He only did two campaign events in September.

His support was lukewarm, at best, and his supporters knew it.

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Response to pnwmom (Reply #122)

Wed Sep 13, 2017, 03:40 PM

166. "His support was lukewarm, at best, and his supporters knew it."

After the convention he announced that he would be returning to the Senate not as a Democrat, but as an Independent. Then he spent the rest of July, all of August, and most of September writing his book.
That was rather odd behavior. I didn't fully understand it or why he thought that was the best thing to do. Perhaps THIS is what Hillary is referring to when she describes it as lacking the same respect she gave to Obama.

His support was lukewarm, at best, and his supporters knew it.
Hillary likely saw that it was delayed, perfunctory and grudging... it was resentful rather than showing respect to the party's nominee. I'll bet that that Hillary also felt as though he was going through the motions.

She's not saying that he didn't do ANYTHING AT ALL, just that in her estimation, Hillary felt that it was insincere and pale. Logically... AFTER THE CONVENTION would have been an ideal time for Sanders to help to unify and sooth lingering resentments among his supporters. But saying nothing and dropping out of sight for so long, the bitterness had time to fester. It was a missed opportunity that Hillary viewed as another indication of his lack of respect.

Well, that's certainly the feeling that I'm getting from it, and I have to say that Hillary's right on target. Hillary is being totally honest, as usual. I believe her. She deserves to be heard without being trashed or repeatedly called a liar (or whatever clever euphemism passes these days).

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Response to SpicyBoi (Original post)

Wed Sep 13, 2017, 02:45 PM

123. Sorry Hillary, I'm all wallowed out.

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Response to jalan48 (Reply #123)

Wed Sep 13, 2017, 03:13 PM

138. +1

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Response to SpicyBoi (Original post)


Response to BannonsLiver (Reply #156)

Wed Sep 13, 2017, 03:45 PM

170. I like your typo.

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Response to pnwmom (Reply #170)

Wed Sep 13, 2017, 04:00 PM

173. Holy shit

How unbelievably petty.

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Response to melman (Reply #173)

Wed Sep 13, 2017, 04:11 PM

174. Some people have a sense of humor, some don't. n/t

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Response to SpicyBoi (Original post)

Wed Sep 13, 2017, 06:56 PM

209. I considered voting for Bernie as a write-in, but I voted for Hilary because

Bernie asked his supporters to do so.

Mind you, at the time I thought there was no way Hilary would lose. If I had thought she might lose, I would have voted for her no matter what.

My immediate family consisted of 2 Hilary supporters and 4 Bernie supporters. All 6 of us voted for Hilary.

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Response to SpicyBoi (Original post)

Wed Sep 13, 2017, 07:05 PM

210. I sure hope we have a new candidate come 2020. No repeats.

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Response to SpicyBoi (Original post)

Wed Sep 13, 2017, 08:15 PM

217. Idiots

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Response to SpicyBoi (Original post)

Wed Sep 13, 2017, 08:20 PM

219. She is exactly right. nt

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Response to SpicyBoi (Original post)

Wed Sep 13, 2017, 10:23 PM

240. Sanders did more harm than good

He refused, over and over again to drop out of the race that he had absolutely ZERO chance of winning. And set the groundwork for trumps "Crooked Hillary" meme.

Yeah, he "did so much" for her; after he had already caused the damage.

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Response to SpicyBoi (Original post)

Wed Sep 13, 2017, 11:02 PM

243. I know someone who isn't getting a Christmas card from the Clintons this year...

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Response to SpicyBoi (Original post)

Thu Sep 14, 2017, 01:02 AM

258. Sanders demanded grifter Cornel West on the platform committe

 

You know,the guy who lied and pretended to complete "poverty tour" dates in states he never visited back in 2009?

Anyway, Clinton graciously agreed and gave him platform concessions.

And, in return, West announced the day after her nomination, that he was joining the SteinTrumpers.

The response from Bernie to one of his top surrogates, as well as his repeat rally speaker Susan "Trump is less dangerous" Sarandon, actively campaigning to aid Trump and hurt the Dems?

Not a peep.

Bernie's silence and refusal to condemn the Busters was basically an endorsement of their effort.

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Response to Adenoid_Hynkel (Reply #258)

Thu Sep 14, 2017, 09:02 AM

272. Thanks for reminding us of these truths.

I also agree with your analysis and observations as well.

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Response to SpicyBoi (Original post)

Thu Sep 14, 2017, 06:51 AM

264. As I age I question my memory of events more than I did as a younger retread. Did not Ms Clinton

campaign against Mr. Obama beyond the point she was mathematically eliminated? My recall is that her people
said it would toughen him up for the general. The real reason is still unknown and remains a "head scratcher". Why would a loyal Democrat continue a campaign against the party's nominee doing what could be lasting damage to his chances in the general?

My memory is that Sanders campaigned extensively for Clinton. Her campaign was in control and if the perception was he didn't
do enough, maybe he did everything he was directed to do?

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Response to retread (Reply #264)

Thu Sep 14, 2017, 07:22 AM

265. Do you remember her justification for campaigning after California?

It was pretty shocking.

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Response to QC (Reply #265)

Thu Sep 14, 2017, 08:55 AM

270. I had forgotten/supressed that one!

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Response to retread (Reply #270)

Thu Sep 14, 2017, 09:21 AM

273. It was so respectful!!!! n/t

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Response to SpicyBoi (Original post)

Thu Sep 14, 2017, 07:47 AM

268. Respect is a funny thing. You sometimes have to give it to get it.


For example, presumptive Democratic candidate Obama agreed to help HRC fund raise to pay off her considerable debts prior to her agreeing to concede and support him.
https://www.dailykos.com/stories/2008/6/2/527659/-
http://www.cnn.com/2008/POLITICS/06/25/obama.clinton.debt/index.html

HRC, on the other hand, made disgraced DNC Chair Wasserman-Shulz her honorary campaign chair.
http://www.npr.org/2016/07/24/487242426/bernie-sanders-dnc-emails-outrageous-but-not-a-shock

Nevertheless, Bernie endorsed Clinton and campaigned for her.


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Response to aikoaiko (Reply #268)

Thu Sep 14, 2017, 09:00 AM

271. LOL

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Response to SpicyBoi (Original post)

Thu Sep 14, 2017, 12:13 PM

279. 5700+ Views, 275+ Replies ... and only 18 Recs. Yeah, that's about how I'd expect this to go.

 

What election is she remembering? Evidently, not the last one.

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