HomeLatest ThreadsGreatest ThreadsForums & GroupsMy SubscriptionsMy Posts
DU Home » Latest Threads » Forums & Groups » Main » General Discussion (Forum) » Hillary Clinton: It was "...

Wed Sep 13, 2017, 12:20 PM

Hillary Clinton: It was "intervention by Comey"

Hillary Clinton says Comey was 'the determining factor' in 2016 loss
Dylan Stableford
https://www.yahoo.com/news/hillary-clinton-says-comey-determining-factor-2016-loss-141046705.html

In the book, Clinton places blame for her loss on many factors, including the Russian intervention, Bernie Sanders, the media, Donald Trump’s reality show-like run and her own campaign.

But on “Today,” Clinton was unequivocal in assessment.

“I think the determining factor was the intervention by Comey,” she said. “Absent that, I believe and I think the evidence shows, I would have won.”

“Did you make enough mistakes yourself to lose the election without any of the other things you talk about?” NBC’s Matt Lauer asked. “I will say no,” Clinton replied.
-------
I think her analysis is 100% accurate regarding Comey-- she would have won comfortably in the Electoral College, and several Democrats would probably be Senators today who aren't, if it wasn't for Comey's last minute interference. Hillary ran a solid campaign that emphasized her strengths and downplayed her weaknesses, but there was really nothing she or anyone else could do about Comey.

41 replies, 1825 views

Reply to this thread

Back to top Alert abuse

Always highlight: 10 newest replies | Replies posted after I mark a forum
Replies to this discussion thread
Arrow 41 replies Author Time Post
Reply Hillary Clinton: It was "intervention by Comey" (Original post)
andym Sep 13 OP
bettyellen Sep 13 #1
PoliticAverse Sep 13 #2
karynnj Sep 13 #23
PoliticAverse Sep 13 #24
StevieM Sep 13 #29
SunSeeker Sep 13 #3
Jersey Devil Sep 13 #4
oasis Sep 13 #9
Jersey Devil Sep 13 #10
oasis Sep 13 #14
ismnotwasm Sep 13 #18
Jersey Devil Sep 13 #22
JHan Sep 13 #27
yallerdawg Sep 13 #11
Jersey Devil Sep 13 #13
yallerdawg Sep 13 #17
PoliticAverse Sep 13 #25
yallerdawg Sep 13 #26
StevieM Sep 13 #30
LanternWaste Sep 13 #21
delisen Sep 13 #33
Justice Sep 13 #36
FarPoint Sep 13 #5
Hoyt Sep 13 #6
FarPoint Sep 13 #12
Hoyt Sep 13 #15
StevieM Sep 13 #31
sprinkleeninow Sep 13 #34
leftstreet Sep 13 #7
NurseJackie Sep 13 #8
Raster Sep 13 #16
Johonny Sep 13 #28
Cosmocat Sep 13 #37
StevieM Sep 17 #41
tavernier Sep 13 #19
Gothmog Sep 13 #20
StevieM Sep 13 #32
sprinkleeninow Sep 13 #35
Cosmocat Sep 13 #38
StevieM Sep 13 #39
andym Sep 13 #40

Response to andym (Original post)

Wed Sep 13, 2017, 12:30 PM

1. Agree- the polls show it as a big dent.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to andym (Original post)

Wed Sep 13, 2017, 12:30 PM

2. Considering how close the election actually was the "I will say no" answer doesn't seem to be...

correct.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to PoliticAverse (Reply #2)

Wed Sep 13, 2017, 01:55 PM

23. Absolutely agree

In fact, every election that was close, means almost anything could have made the difference.

In HRC's case, consider something not her fault at all. Had she not gotten pneumonia, there would not have been that essentially negative story (ranging from raising health concerns to images of HRC almost collapsing to taking "too long" to satisfy everyone in explaining what happened) and it likely might have caused her to prudently cut back on her personal appearnces. This was pure bad luck. Also, someone on her staff likely wrote that "basket of deplorable" line - imagine if someone had red flagged it and she did not give Trump that gift, that rallied many to Trump who might have not voted for him. (consider she was targeting women - including those married to many, who even if they were not who she meant by deplorable, saw themselves labeled thusly.)

This is not an attack on HRC. Imagine that someone in Ohio had identified that fewer voting machines allocated to Democratic strongholds a few weeks before the election and challenged it. The number of votes lost by people who had to abandon the effort to vote because they could not stand in 4 hour plus lines because of work or family is unknowable, but likely enough to move Ohio to Kerry's column. Not to mention, if the unusually patient and polite Kerry had simply said - "I just answered that, next question" - rather than saying that he just explained his votes - and that he had "voted for it before he voted against it" -- or if he had answered with his more careful response - maybe appreviated to say he voted for a version of the funding that rolled back future tax cuts for the wealthiest 2% because they were no longer affordable with the costs of the war and then made a protest vote against the Bush approved version that added the cost to the deficit and the debt. That original answer was actually quite good. We all know what happened with the second answer he gave rather than just cutting the questioner off. Not to mention, the media and many important people in the party pushed him to pick Edwards, who had received undeservedly positive press in the primaries. In teh general election, he was a prima donna, promised to do things and then didn't and essentially acted as if he would almost prefer losing 2004 and setting himself up for 2008. Kerry was said to have not been impressed with Edwards, preferring Durbin or Gephardt, both of whom would have been better advocates and had ties in the rust belt. Here, Kerry should have gone with his own gut, though the media had already set up a negative narritive that suggested that if Kerry did not pick him it was because he thought Edwards (who lost to him by far more than Bernie did to HRC) would outshine him.

With Gore, imagine if when a FL county found that the felon list had major problems - when someone found her own husband (not a felon) on the list had not just refused to use the list, but took the problem to the Clinton justice department. Now, the Clinton/Gore administration would have had to deal with this carefully, but remember that claims that it was political were easily countered. The Secretary of State was high in the Bush campaign and the governor was Jebb ... and the company that produced the list was tied to Republicans and was from Texas. I know that Gore really won -- but those lost votes, almost all of AAs were mostly for Gore. Not to mention there are many many reasons this should have been dealt with for reasons of racial justice.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to karynnj (Reply #23)

Wed Sep 13, 2017, 02:02 PM

24. Yeah the "deplorable" comment was clearly a strategic mistake (which is why she walked it back)

and served as a rallying cry and motivator to Trump voters - you can denigrate your opponent but
if you attack their supporters you make them more likely to show up to vote.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to karynnj (Reply #23)

Wed Sep 13, 2017, 02:23 PM

29. The difference is that Comey dramatically overhauled an election that was looking like a big win.

Had he not interfered she would have blown Trump out. And that is before we even take the July press conference into account.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to andym (Original post)

Wed Sep 13, 2017, 12:32 PM

3. Yep. nt

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to andym (Original post)

Wed Sep 13, 2017, 12:37 PM

4. Hillary just can't turn the page

It's understandable for her personally. But it doesn't help one bit what the reasons were for her loss in terms of rescuing our country from Trump.

All she can do is turn herself into a sympathetic figure. We have a different job and empathy for Hillary, no matter how strong or sincere, won't matter at all.

We should be concentrating on what we can do to get our country back. Hillary is the past. We need the future.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to Jersey Devil (Reply #4)

Wed Sep 13, 2017, 12:46 PM

9. You're certainly welcome to do what YOU need to do.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to oasis (Reply #9)

Wed Sep 13, 2017, 12:49 PM

10. I just don't think that dwelling on why Hillary lost can be at all productive

It is interesting, to be sure. But it accomplishes nothing.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to Jersey Devil (Reply #10)

Wed Sep 13, 2017, 12:58 PM

14. I'm willing to wait and see what, if anything, is accomplished

by Hillary's "truth crusade". After 40+ years of public service, Hillary has earned the right to speak up and speak out as long as she desires.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to Jersey Devil (Reply #10)

Wed Sep 13, 2017, 01:13 PM

18. So exploring the effects of sexism and racism are not productive?

I disagree

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to ismnotwasm (Reply #18)

Wed Sep 13, 2017, 01:52 PM

22. Comey has exactly what to do with racism and sexism?

Nothing

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to Jersey Devil (Reply #10)

Wed Sep 13, 2017, 02:16 PM

27. Seems I've been observing a different reality:

Lessons to be learned:

The impact of voter suppression.
The impact of information war tactics rendering traditional politics obsolete.
The cultural signifiers that had people rationalizing voting for a piece of shit President ( which would include all the ugly isms).

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to Jersey Devil (Reply #4)

Wed Sep 13, 2017, 12:49 PM

11. What about holding Comey accountable?

We know he said he was "mildly nauseous" for helping Trump get elected - and Trump fired him in return - but James Comey is a modern day Benedict Arnold, a name that should make all of us severely nauseous.

He used his authority and position to change the outcome of our presidential election!

How is this not considered one of the most astounding and outrageous acts in political history?

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to yallerdawg (Reply #11)

Wed Sep 13, 2017, 12:53 PM

13. Point taken

Preventing a repeat of what Comey did would be important. To that extent I agree that what Hillary has to say about it is something that should be considered. But otherwise, having another postmortem of the election 10 months after the fact is something that is not likely to help us with future elections.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to Jersey Devil (Reply #13)

Wed Sep 13, 2017, 01:11 PM

17. Nothing that happened in this election should be allowed to repeat!

"Oh, well, we need to pick a better candidate" when each and every scenario Hillary endured is still in place?

Innuendo and unequal treatment benefitting one candidate on the part of the chief law-enforcement officer of the nation?

Malignant interference from a foreign adversarial government to influence the outcome of our election for a more "favorable" candidate, not to mention aspects of cyber warfare?

Corporate media driven by ratings and political narrative - for profit - demonstrably attacking a single candidate?

A second election delivered by a manipulated Constitutional fluke that overturns the will of the people?

The "normalcy" of rejecting women in leadership roles that is a core outcome of American institutions at every level?

To paraphrase: If we don't realize what happened, we are doomed to repeat it.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to yallerdawg (Reply #11)

Wed Sep 13, 2017, 02:05 PM

25. "What about holding Comey accountable?" - by doing what? (He's already been fired). n/t

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to PoliticAverse (Reply #25)

Wed Sep 13, 2017, 02:15 PM

26. "Let's move on" is NOT holding Comey accountable.

"Benedict Arnold" is synonymous with the word "traitor."

Any idea what he did or what happened to him? Not without google, of course.

James Comey needs to be held accountable in this fashion.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to yallerdawg (Reply #26)

Wed Sep 13, 2017, 02:24 PM

30. Well said. Comey is reprehensible. (eom)

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to Jersey Devil (Reply #4)

Wed Sep 13, 2017, 01:37 PM

21. Many people believe that analysis of recent history is no real help

"But it doesn't help one bit what the reasons were for her loss..."

Many people believe that analysis and discussion of recent history is no real help; yet they never give a cogent or valid reason why they support that premise.

I'm guessing it's just a placeholder until they find something more substantive to rationalize their biases with.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to Jersey Devil (Reply #4)

Wed Sep 13, 2017, 03:31 PM

33. The reasons for the loss are essential to moving forward.


Sympathy and empathy for an individual have little to do with it.

We won't get our country back until we know how we lost it, to whom we lost it, and why.

Actually we are never going to get that particular country back.

Clinton is going to be one of the people shaping our future.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to Jersey Devil (Reply #4)

Wed Sep 13, 2017, 03:56 PM

36. Wrong.


It's vital to look at the reasons for her loss in terms of rescuing our country from Trump. Particularly now, when the evidence re Russia is coming out - Hillary said many of these things during the campaign but people/media didn't listen.

"All she can do is turn herself into a sympathetic figure."

Hillary is not interested in being a sympathetic figure - she is interested in the truth of what happened.

I for one agree with her. We are getting to the future without understanding the past. We can't just look forward, as that sweeps everything under the rug.


Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to andym (Original post)

Wed Sep 13, 2017, 12:39 PM

5. Yes.. definitely a contributor....We can't ignore the media failure too...

Media and Reporters Never truly held tRump accountable for his abuse...They chose to use the abuse acts as a ratings source.... normalize the candidate ...attack and hold the woman to a greater standard....

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to andym (Original post)

Wed Sep 13, 2017, 12:39 PM

6. I agree. It was like a punch in the gut when Comey's letter announcing the investigation came out.

The lame attempt to correct it just wasn't enough. It shouldn't have been that close and there were other factors, but Comey was the immediate cause of Clinton's loss.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to Hoyt (Reply #6)

Wed Sep 13, 2017, 12:50 PM

12. It actually served no purpose either...

No Special Breaking News ....it's how he presented the issue to American voters .... awful...Made it as important as some terrorist attack....

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to FarPoint (Reply #12)

Wed Sep 13, 2017, 12:59 PM

15. Speaking of terror attacks, I am convinced Kerry would have won in 2004 if a Bin Laden video

had not been released the Friday before the election.

It brought enough voters back to the irrational fear that Democrats supposedly weren't tough enough to handle some imagined terrorists threat.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to Hoyt (Reply #6)

Wed Sep 13, 2017, 02:25 PM

31. I would argue that it wasn't too close. Comey completely overhauled the race with his stunt.

And she would have been blowing him out completely had it not been for his July press conference.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to StevieM (Reply #31)

Wed Sep 13, 2017, 03:47 PM

34. There's evidence. All repugnicant 'acquaintances'

were fearful that it was pretty clear at one point nearing the election that HRC would win the presidency.

Enough were VOCAL on this.

Then, kaboom. Comey.

To our household, it seemed a sick joke and dirty trick that she did not become '45'!

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to andym (Original post)

Wed Sep 13, 2017, 12:41 PM

7. Strange she doesn't mention decades of anti-Hillary media attacks

Hard to believe she and the DNC went into this not knowing that

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to andym (Original post)

Wed Sep 13, 2017, 12:41 PM

8. She ranked them in the correct order...

In the book, Clinton places blame for her loss on many factors, including the Russian intervention, Bernie Sanders, the media, Donald Trump’s reality show-like run and her own campaign.
She ranked them in the correct order, or at least it's fairly close as far as I'm concerned. I'm glad she's talking about this. Nobody likes to be gagged and preventing from talking about something as important as this. She deserves to be heard and those who are trying to shout her down are "being ridiculous".

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to NurseJackie (Reply #8)

Wed Sep 13, 2017, 01:11 PM

16. I disagree somewhat....

...I believe the underlying, always present, years of manufactured Hillary hate set the tone and stage for all the other factors. There are literally industries and careers built on the bedrock of manufactured Hillary hate. The Hillary hate allowed all the other factors to foment and be congealed into a toxic electoral soup.

That said, I believe the Russian interventions in its various fashions and forms --some of which we don't even know of today-- would be the first and most important factor. And even though most would discount and deny, there is always the possibility that in certain precincts and jurisdictions, the actual vote tallies may have been tampered with. We just don't know. And unfortunately, it appears that the Republicans in Congress have no desire to ascertain just how damaging the Russian interference may have been.

The second factor, I believe, was Comey's undue interference in the election, which may have moved the needle just enough for certain undecideds to change the course of the election. Comey's comment that he is "mildly nauseous" to think he may have affected the election is understated indeed. Comey should still be hunched over a toilet puking his guts out.

And I STRONGLY AGREE that Hillary Clinton should be talking about this and most definitely deserves to be heard, and EVERYONE should be listening. This will happen again. I believe with all of my heart that the actual, real and bonafide first female President of the United States was out-and-out robbed. I believe that many in the Republican party are complicit and know they had their nefarious part to play.

And finally, Hillary Clinton should be allowed to work through and come to terms with probably what was the greatest disappointment of her life. I hope Hillary Clinton rises from the ashes and becomes a dynamic, outspoken leader in the resistance.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to Raster (Reply #16)

Wed Sep 13, 2017, 02:20 PM

28. Yes, Comey's attack worked so well because the media had set up her emails

as the central topic of her campaign. They beat that dead horse waiting for the big reveal to make it live, if only for 3 days or so, before dying again. That all worked because of the constant negative tone of the press. They treated this as a real story while simply ignoring the many, many Trump negatives.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to Raster (Reply #16)

Wed Sep 13, 2017, 04:07 PM

37. She was a brittle public figure

that is now I describe it.

Not that she was personally brittle.

But, the public opinion of her, because of decades of right wing hate framing, took very quick and deep dives when she was running when Rs managed to find mud that somehow would stick to her.

I have a LOT of liberal friends who don't like or hate her. They really can't say why when I ask them, nothing real substantive.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to Raster (Reply #16)

Sun Sep 17, 2017, 06:48 PM

41. I don't agree that Comey moved the needle "just enough." I think he moved it a whole lot.

There was a dramatic change in the polling after his announcement. And post-election polling confirms that he had an enormous impact.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to andym (Original post)

Wed Sep 13, 2017, 01:14 PM

19. Matt Lauer is asking her this question?

After he French kissed trump in his interview, pre-election???

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to andym (Original post)

Wed Sep 13, 2017, 01:32 PM

20. K&R

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to andym (Original post)

Wed Sep 13, 2017, 02:31 PM

32. It's a ridiculous question because it sets up the implication that we are debating whether or not

Comey turned a narrow victory into a narrow defeat.

This is ridiculous. Comey completely turned the race upside down. His actions dramatically reshaped where the candidates stood. Before he did that HRC was getting ready to crush Trump. And that was even after Comey's July press conference.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to StevieM (Reply #32)

Wed Sep 13, 2017, 03:49 PM

35. Thank you! eom

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to StevieM (Reply #32)

Wed Sep 13, 2017, 04:09 PM

38. It's both

The July press conference took a LOT of air out of her when 45 was flailing and she was doing pretty well. It reset the race to almost neck and neck.

She managed to get a little air through September, enough to probably win, but the letter cut her knees out.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to Cosmocat (Reply #38)

Wed Sep 13, 2017, 06:44 PM

39. I think she got a lot of air in September and October. More than enough to win the race

by a decisive margin. The Comey letter completely reshaped the race.

But I agree, the July press conference was devastating in its own right.

It is so ridiculous that the media is relentless in declaring that the race was won by Trump because he ran a better campaign and he was preferred on economic issues. This is total nonsense. Trump ran the worst campaign in history--hands down--but he won anyway. And the blame for that lies with Comey and his illegitimate tactics at the FBI.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to StevieM (Reply #39)

Wed Sep 13, 2017, 09:09 PM

40. I agree as well that Hillary had a big enough lead to easily win until Comey's letter

Hillary was on track for a big victory until Comey sent his letter. Afterwards, it was literally a toss-up in the electoral college. Nate Silver had a good analysis a few months ago of the impact of the letter, which I will try to add to the discussion.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink

Reply to this thread