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Tue Sep 12, 2017, 01:16 PM

FDR Was a Great President for His Time.

Almost nobody reading this had been born at that time, however. We're alive today, not in the 1920s and 1930s. The issues that plague us are very different from those FDR dealt with. His contributions that are remembered today as beneficial were financial and economic in nature, because that was the overriding issue of that time.

Today, the issues have changed and evolved. While economics are still a major issue, there are many other issues that must have equal priority when it comes to reform. A purely economical solution will not address a large and growing number of social justice issues that have been festering in this country just about forever. They existed at the time FDR held office, but went unrecognized and were not dealt with during his administration.

We celebrate FDR, and rightly so, for his contributions to economic change in a desperate time in our nation. He did a good job with those issues, and that should never be forgotten.

We do not need a New New Deal, however. The New Deal was economic. We need far more than that. We need a Fair Deal for Everyone that addresses all of our economic AND social issues and moves us into becoming a new, more just society.

We do not need FDR. We need a leader for the 21st Century. We need much more than FDR accomplished. We need to think about fresh solutions, not old solutions that did not address the complete range of issues we now face. We need leadership. We need solidarity. We need changes across the board.

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Arrow 36 replies Author Time Post
Reply FDR Was a Great President for His Time. (Original post)
MineralMan Sep 12 OP
Lee Adama Sep 12 #1
guillaumeb Sep 12 #5
Lee Adama Sep 12 #8
HughBeaumont Sep 12 #12
Eliot Rosewater Sep 12 #17
NurseJackie Sep 12 #20
Eliot Rosewater Sep 12 #21
MineralMan Sep 12 #25
sacto95834 Sep 13 #35
Cary Sep 12 #19
Warpy Sep 12 #30
Lee Adama Sep 12 #31
guillaumeb Sep 12 #2
FreepFryer Sep 12 #4
guillaumeb Sep 12 #6
MineralMan Sep 12 #10
Cary Sep 12 #22
FreepFryer Sep 12 #3
delisen Sep 12 #7
dembotoz Sep 12 #9
MineralMan Sep 12 #11
CousinIT Sep 12 #13
brush Sep 12 #33
HughBeaumont Sep 12 #14
kentuck Sep 12 #15
Eliot Rosewater Sep 12 #16
XRubicon Sep 12 #18
peggysue2 Sep 12 #23
mcar Sep 12 #24
Willie Pep Sep 12 #26
k8conant Sep 12 #27
flotsam Sep 12 #28
flotsam Sep 12 #29
MichMan Sep 12 #32
MineralMan Sep 13 #36
Trumpocalypse Sep 13 #34

Response to MineralMan (Original post)

Tue Sep 12, 2017, 01:18 PM

1. Well said!

 

Had the extreme left not sat out 2010 and allowed Obama to proceed with his agenda instead of shoving a Republican Congress down our throats, Barack Obama would have accomplished all we need!!

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Response to Lee Adama (Reply #1)

Tue Sep 12, 2017, 01:20 PM

5. The left, or extreme left, is very small in the US.

And the Democratic turnout in the 2010 and 2014 elections was pathetic, as it normally is in non-Presidential elections. Blame apathetic voters in general, not a mythical extreme left.

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Response to guillaumeb (Reply #5)

Tue Sep 12, 2017, 01:44 PM

8. Nope, I lay it all at the feet of the extreme left. 100% their fault

 

Needless to say, I disagree with your assessment.

I also blame both Trump AND Bush on the extreme left.

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Response to Lee Adama (Reply #8)

Tue Sep 12, 2017, 02:35 PM

12. Uh, Dubya was part complicit media, part FL voting shenanigans, part Lieberturd, part SCOTUS.

Lieberturd moved Gore away from the Clinton positives and dragged the party to the center-right.

Trump was a complicit media, Russian Interference, Comey's October Surprise, voter suppression, Republican Small State strategy and an undercurrent of toxic masculinity, white fragility and sexism.

Neither Bernie or his supporters turned Ohio as deep-red as Texas (losing 10 Obama-won counties), nor did they turn WI, MI or PA (strangely, each by a 1% margin).

Blaming some mythical "extreme left" for Hillary's loss hangs ALL Democratic voters. We need to look at the real reason behind her loss, and that's the money and players behind Trump.

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Response to Lee Adama (Reply #8)

Tue Sep 12, 2017, 03:32 PM

17. This is one of my pet peeves.

I agree completely with your assessment, but the folks you are blaming are not LEFT or EXTREME LEFT, not in my book anyways.

I call them "progressives" for lack of a better term.

I am EXTREME left, i.e. nationalize all energy (oil, gas obviously and natural gas, electricity, etc) as well as access to most of what we have to have to survive and institute a guaranteed income.

But, I am also adamant that FIRST we must have true civil rights. African American, Native American, Gay, Muslim, etc., etc . Economic rights arent worth shit if you are being shot at each time you drive down the street.

My point is in my world the word "left" is not only good but that to which one would strive to be. But apart from that one pick, I liked what you said.

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Response to Eliot Rosewater (Reply #17)

Tue Sep 12, 2017, 04:08 PM

20. Thank you. Recommended. (EVERYONE PLEASE READ THE ABOVE POST!)

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Response to NurseJackie (Reply #20)

Tue Sep 12, 2017, 04:10 PM

21. Why golly gee Nurse, you making me blush!

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Response to Eliot Rosewater (Reply #17)

Tue Sep 12, 2017, 07:09 PM

25. Thank you, Eliot!

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Response to Eliot Rosewater (Reply #17)

Wed Sep 13, 2017, 06:24 AM

35. Thank you

I think economic and civil right must proceed hand in hand. One really isn't good without the other - meaning to fully appreciate either you must have both.

The message of MLK, Jr. was one has to have economic justice with civil rights and it's his message that I wish for the USA.

I am a progressive like you.

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Response to guillaumeb (Reply #5)

Tue Sep 12, 2017, 04:04 PM

19. Why not blame the extreme left?

Isn't it the extreme left that always complains about being stifled? Isn't it.the extreme left that is so aggressive about it's right to express discord and discontent?

You think that has no consequences? If the extreme left is going to give then it had better be prepared to take.

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Response to Lee Adama (Reply #1)

Tue Sep 12, 2017, 07:56 PM

30. If you spent less time spitting bile at fellow Democrats

and more time trying to do something constructive, we might see more Democrats elected.

Most far leftists were delighted to vote for our first black president. It's one reason he won.

Now get off my lawn.

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Response to Warpy (Reply #30)

Tue Sep 12, 2017, 07:58 PM

31. WTF?

 

I don't get what you are trying to say.

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Response to MineralMan (Original post)

Tue Sep 12, 2017, 01:18 PM

2. Recommended.

The obvious follow up question, to me, is:

Who is this leader for the 21st Century?

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Response to guillaumeb (Reply #2)

Tue Sep 12, 2017, 01:20 PM

4. IMHO It can't all be on one unitary executive - that's the trend we need to reverse...

...need to restore confidence in institutions, and the other branches of government, rather than perpetuate the model of the imperial presidency.

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Response to FreepFryer (Reply #4)

Tue Sep 12, 2017, 01:21 PM

6. Agreed.

The Constitution allowed for three co-equal branches, not a King and a subordinate Parliament.

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Response to guillaumeb (Reply #2)

Tue Sep 12, 2017, 02:14 PM

10. That remains to be determined, doesn't it.

FDR can't run, though. That's for certain. Some may cite him, though, as an inspiration. I'm all for that, as long as they keep their eyes on what is needed today, rather than in FDR's day.

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Response to MineralMan (Reply #10)

Tue Sep 12, 2017, 04:13 PM

22. Roosevelt wasn't an economist.

The economic genius was John Maynard Keynes, whom FOR resisted. The contemporary iteration of Keynes is called modern mainstream neoclassical synthesis, salt water variety.

Keynes was a genius. I highly commend his essay, "The End of Laissez-Fair."

https://www.panarchy.org/keynes/laissezfaire.1926.html

Note the date. In any event it is true that it wasn't so much FDR's policies that brought us out of the First Great Republican Depression as much as the massive spending that was WWII.

The idea is to avoid a liquidity trap in the first place.

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Response to MineralMan (Original post)

Tue Sep 12, 2017, 01:18 PM

3. +1. (n/t)

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Response to MineralMan (Original post)

Tue Sep 12, 2017, 01:23 PM

7. Great Post.

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Response to MineralMan (Original post)

Tue Sep 12, 2017, 01:55 PM

9. doesn't it sorta depend on what the new new deal was?

single payer health care?

reinstatement of the voter rights act?

reaffirmation of the paris accords and a movement towards green energy?

reinvestment in infrastructure?

reaffirmation of unions?

push towards better access to higher education?

reduction in corporate ownership of the american dream?

a livable minimum wage?


before you shit can it find out what the hell it is

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Response to dembotoz (Reply #9)

Tue Sep 12, 2017, 02:22 PM

11. Well, for me, it had better include:

Complete equality of women in our nation.

Complete freedom to control one's own reproductive decisions.

Access for all to an outstanding, free, public elementary and secondary education, regardless of race, national origin, sex, gender, sexual orientation or any other factor that is beyond the students' control.

Active criminal prosecution for all acts of racism and oppression, including job and housing administration.

An end to discrimination at all levels, public and private, against anyone for anything that is not under the control of the individual.

Effective regulation of firearms ownership and use.

Universal suffrage and voter access for all adult American citizens, regardless of any freaking thing at all.

Assured fair elections at all levels with a paper record of all votes cast.

Automatic voter registration at age 18, based on Social Security registration. Period.

A living wage for all workers, regardless of their job or age.

Genuine Universal Health Care Coverage for all, regardless of income or ability to pay. Period.

This list is, by no means, complete. There are many other social justice issues that must be addressed.

Without social justice change, I cannot support any candidate's platform. Economic issues, while important, are no more important than social justice.


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Response to MineralMan (Original post)

Tue Sep 12, 2017, 02:46 PM

13. Just IMO, economic and social justice issues are greatly meshed together

You can't address one without addressing the other. So yes a Fair Deal is a better idea.

We don't need to scrap FDR's programs -- but we need to build upon them to create the Fair Deal.

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Response to CousinIT (Reply #13)

Tue Sep 12, 2017, 10:29 PM

33. LBJ's Great Society programs, which repugs constantly chip away at, added much-needed...

Last edited Wed Sep 13, 2017, 12:01 AM - Edit history (1)

social justice cures.

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Response to MineralMan (Original post)

Tue Sep 12, 2017, 03:05 PM

14. Isn't this chicken and egg kind of messed up?

Rural and urban poverty happen BECAUSE there's no economic opportunity for either one.

Urban decay is usually blamed on "Lib Polutishuns" (bullshit) and rural malaise is blamed on "Highest corporate tax rate in thuh world" (supreme bullshit).

The truth is, both are happening because wealthy people and the corporations they run (the very entities America seems to avoid blaming for ANYthing) seek ever-cheaper labor and dwindling benefit costs; whether that comes in right-to-work-for-peanuts states or offshore outsourcing. Either way, it's making America poorer and the lack of revenue exacerbates necessity costs.

I really don't see what cures our unbridled Capitalism problem. Smack their hands and tell them to stop being so greedy? I mean, if you're depending on a Guaranteed minimum (insert benefit here) to bail us out, you're going to be some waitin' mofos. Sociopathic Capitalists aren't going to concede one red CENT to help anyone but their own kind. America dealing with it's oncoming Automation problem? . . . yeah, I'm envisioning "hellscape". Sorry.

Voting for more strict-father authoritarians doesn't seem to be the answer; however, people are really too much in love with Republicans to quit them despite all the beatings they receive from their "governance".

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Response to MineralMan (Original post)

Tue Sep 12, 2017, 03:23 PM

15. So was Abraham Lincoln.

For his time.

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Response to MineralMan (Original post)

Tue Sep 12, 2017, 03:28 PM

16. Sounds right to me.

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Response to MineralMan (Original post)

Tue Sep 12, 2017, 03:39 PM

18. We stand on the shoulders of giants

That's how we got here. We need to be the giants now.

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Response to XRubicon (Reply #18)

Tue Sep 12, 2017, 04:35 PM

23. Yes!



We should not forget this. We owe our best efforts not just to the now and the future as important as they are. But to the generations who brought us this far and on whose shoulders we do indeed stand. This is no small thing.

Thank you for that.

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Response to MineralMan (Original post)

Tue Sep 12, 2017, 04:38 PM

24. Well said!

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Response to MineralMan (Original post)

Tue Sep 12, 2017, 07:26 PM

26. A lot of New Deal-style policies would help everyone.

I don't know how a higher minimum wage, stronger unions and universal affordable health care would not helps non-whites, women, gay people, etc. Somehow, though, traditional liberal economics got classified as "old white guy" issues.

How do more women, gay and non-white CEOs help working-class people? I guess as long as the ruling class is diverse and multicultural policies that hurt working people are cool.

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Response to MineralMan (Original post)

Tue Sep 12, 2017, 07:37 PM

27. We need a Real Deal...

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Response to MineralMan (Original post)

Tue Sep 12, 2017, 07:46 PM

28. I think he might keep pretty well...

True individual freedom cannot exist without economic security and independence. People who are hungry and out of a job are the stuff of which dictatorships are made. Franklin D. Roosevelt

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Response to flotsam (Reply #28)

Tue Sep 12, 2017, 07:48 PM

29. or

We are trying to construct a more inclusive society. We are going to make a country in which no one is left out.

A nation that destroys its soils destroys itself. Forests are the lungs of our land, purifying the air and giving fresh strength to our people.

Whoever seeks to set one religion against another seeks to destroy all religion.

Those newspapers of the nation which most loudly cried dictatorship against me would have been the first to justify the beginnings of dictatorship by somebody else.

But while they prate of economic laws, men and women are starving. We must lay hold of the fact that economic laws are not made by nature. They are made by human beings.



I think there's more there than you recall.























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Response to MineralMan (Original post)

Tue Sep 12, 2017, 08:13 PM

32. Unless you were Japanese American............. nm

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Response to MichMan (Reply #32)

Wed Sep 13, 2017, 08:37 AM

36. Yes. I didn't bring that up because everyone brings that up.

It was a low point in our history and deprived many people of their constitutional rights. In college, I had a friend who was actually born in the Manzanar internment camp. Her family lost everything when they were sent there, and never really recovered. Her father committed suicide not long after being released and finding nothing left of his life.

In my opinion, that single action obliterates any chance of any hero worship for FDR. Unconscionable, in my opinion.

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Response to MineralMan (Original post)

Wed Sep 13, 2017, 05:55 AM

34. Great post! nt

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