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Sun Sep 10, 2017, 11:25 PM

What is going on in northern Colorado? My whole dad's side and my brother turned into Trump lovers

In the 80's they were Democrats but reading Facebook a year ago I've seen all kind of pro Republican memes and stuff like my Dad posted the # of Marines died that equaled the number of Sandy Hook victims asking "How long has the flag been at half staff for them?" or something like that. My mom talked to my brother and found out he is a Trump supporter. We all used to agree on Bush but he moved up there several years ago and he was asking questions like "Why is the media picking on Trump?". He thought the Russian investigation was over and they haven't found anything and he said "If they found something they would have done something."

I guess he kept repeating the point "Hillary would be worse" saying the "whole world be in war". I'm thinking "What about north Korea?" I didn't talk to him but it amazes me how brainwashed people are. He doesn't even see this Russian thing. The baffling thing is these people used to be Democrats.

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Reply What is going on in northern Colorado? My whole dad's side and my brother turned into Trump lovers (Original post)
JonLP24 Sep 10 OP
Warpy Sep 10 #1
Warren DeMontague Sep 10 #2
JonLP24 Sep 10 #3
Warren DeMontague Sep 10 #4
defacto7 Sep 11 #5
uponit7771 Sep 11 #6
Steven Maurer Sep 11 #7
JonLP24 Sep 11 #8
Steven Maurer Sep 11 #11
JonLP24 Sep 11 #12
haveahart Sep 11 #44
Jim Beard Sep 11 #47
JonLP24 Sep 11 #49
dembotoz Sep 12 #65
Drahthaardogs Sep 11 #17
No Vested Interest Sep 11 #9
JonLP24 Sep 11 #10
No Vested Interest Sep 11 #52
kimbutgar Sep 11 #31
Jim Beard Sep 11 #48
Initech Sep 11 #51
pnwmom Sep 11 #13
Lyricalinklines Sep 11 #16
Hulk Sep 11 #14
sharedvalues Sep 11 #22
Hulk Sep 11 #24
bettyellen Sep 11 #37
Jim Beard Sep 11 #50
LiberalLovinLug Sep 12 #81
PoindexterOglethorpe Sep 11 #15
Drahthaardogs Sep 11 #18
PoindexterOglethorpe Sep 11 #23
Drahthaardogs Sep 11 #26
Ohiya Sep 11 #19
Not Ruth Sep 11 #20
hlthe2b Sep 11 #21
JonLP24 Sep 11 #25
eleny Sep 11 #54
Drahthaardogs Sep 11 #27
hlthe2b Sep 11 #28
Drahthaardogs Sep 11 #32
hlthe2b Sep 11 #33
Drahthaardogs Sep 11 #35
hlthe2b Sep 11 #36
Drahthaardogs Sep 11 #40
bettyellen Sep 11 #38
Drahthaardogs Sep 11 #39
bettyellen Sep 11 #45
JonLP24 Sep 11 #46
Drahthaardogs Sep 11 #53
bettyellen Sep 11 #55
Drahthaardogs Sep 12 #56
bettyellen Sep 12 #57
Drahthaardogs Sep 12 #58
bettyellen Sep 12 #60
Drahthaardogs Sep 12 #61
bettyellen Sep 12 #62
Drahthaardogs Sep 12 #63
bettyellen Sep 12 #64
Drahthaardogs Sep 12 #66
bettyellen Sep 12 #67
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bettyellen Sep 12 #69
Drahthaardogs Sep 12 #70
bettyellen Sep 12 #71
Drahthaardogs Sep 12 #83
bettyellen Sep 13 #85
JonLP24 Sep 12 #72
bettyellen Sep 12 #73
JonLP24 Sep 12 #74
bettyellen Sep 12 #75
JonLP24 Sep 12 #76
bettyellen Sep 12 #82
mdbl Sep 11 #29
hunter Sep 11 #30
Coventina Sep 11 #34
whistler162 Sep 11 #41
samnsara Sep 12 #78
JonLP24 Sep 12 #80
haveahart Sep 11 #42
JonLP24 Sep 11 #43
Aristus Sep 12 #59
samnsara Sep 12 #77
JonLP24 Sep 12 #79
madamesilverspurs Sep 12 #84
Willie Pep Sep 13 #86

Response to JonLP24 (Original post)

Sun Sep 10, 2017, 11:27 PM

1. They discovered Pox News, apparently.

About all you can do is go Emily Post and hope the fever breaks at some point.

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Response to JonLP24 (Original post)

Sun Sep 10, 2017, 11:30 PM

2. Are they what you would call, "firearms enthusiasts"?

A lot of people in the west have bought into this line that Democrats just want to take their guns away.

The Sandy Hook thing might be a clue, too.



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Response to Warren DeMontague (Reply #2)

Sun Sep 10, 2017, 11:36 PM

3. My dad seems to be

My grandma who died in July posted a lot of right wing stuff they were both Democrats in the 80s. I don't know about my brother, his interest is skateboarding.

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Response to JonLP24 (Reply #3)

Sun Sep 10, 2017, 11:55 PM

4. I bet that's part of it.

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Response to JonLP24 (Original post)

Mon Sep 11, 2017, 12:14 AM

5. Thinking abstractly and globally

becomes such a chore when a person is spoon fed a two dimensional reality pre-packaged and served without the slightest effort on our part.. hourly, daily, yearly.. When life can be spun with authority and spoken entertainingly by someone who sounds just like a "real" person, who acts like they've been in the same trenches with you, it's such a relief. As they explain so simply, you're not alone in this big evil liberal world.
It's so much easier to know all the answers instantly. Just add void and stir.

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Response to JonLP24 (Original post)

Mon Sep 11, 2017, 12:17 AM

6. Sorry bout that, Benedict Donald is and the CeC are poison

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Response to JonLP24 (Original post)

Mon Sep 11, 2017, 01:33 AM

7. Lot of white racists in the west, especially idaho

Lot of older whites reverting back to their racism, especially if they haven't been doing all that well economically.

Sorry, but that's what it sounds like.

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Response to Steven Maurer (Reply #7)

Mon Sep 11, 2017, 01:37 AM

8. I think you may be right

Though my brother is 3 years younger born in 1989. Loveland is like 1% black 97%+ white so you're probably right.

On edit: My aunt in Loveland married a Mexican-American but I don't know her political views. Just mostly my Dad or grandma's views based on Facebook posts. My brother I didn't know about until today.

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Response to JonLP24 (Reply #8)

Mon Sep 11, 2017, 02:06 AM

11. Just don't directly confront them on that

Even if it's obvious. You accuse someone of something like that, the truer it is, the more they'll reject it.

Just ask them if they think the Republicans have delivered for them. And how exactly.

Lots of questions. Make them explain their thinking to you. If you have a connection to them, that is really the only way to get people like that to change their minds.

But even then, it's likely only a 15% chance you will. Hatred and blame-shifting for any dream of theirs that didn't come to fruition is a hell of a drug.

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Response to Steven Maurer (Reply #11)

Mon Sep 11, 2017, 02:10 AM

12. I haven't logged into Facebook in well over a year

Primarily because of Conservative opinions from my family & people I served with in the military -- though most of my Army friends are liberals but a few I added because they sent me a friend request posted Conservative crap.

My brother recently had a birthday so he said to call Sunday and the subject of Trump came up.

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Response to Steven Maurer (Reply #11)

Mon Sep 11, 2017, 07:02 PM

44. I disagree. I have confronted some of my family and best friends over their being fooled and brain

 

washed. They didn't like it one bit but they couldn't argue with the facts and they couldn't unheard that they had been played for fools. i showed them the information from the studies out there about the fake stuff about HRC and what was done to her campaign by the media. I showed them the facts about Benghazi and even had them go to YouTube and play some of the testimony. I showed them all the info I could find on Trump's hypocrisy about his brand being "made in China" etc.

You will be surprised at how much real truth and facts never get to these people because they only watch FOX and listen to Rush. That is a fact. They must be exposed to reality. Find a way. I know it's hard but it can be done. Once they are exposed they might become angry and resistant but they can't un-hear or un-see what you presented to them. Most of these people are in a FOX-Rush-Bannon bubble. Just fucking pop it!

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Response to JonLP24 (Reply #8)

Mon Sep 11, 2017, 07:27 PM

47. Being a Hispanic doesn't make any difference unless they live in an

area that is heavily populated by Hispanics. A lot of men didn't like Hillary, including me. She was a ball buster. I voted for her because I vote Democrat every time but I didn't like her.

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Response to Jim Beard (Reply #47)

Mon Sep 11, 2017, 07:34 PM

49. I was saying I don 't know about my Aunt's political views and mentioned she married a Hispanic

years before I was even born. My aunt is my Dad's sister so he isn't a blood relative so I mentioned that on the race aspect though I definetely would file my dad into the category based on some things he has said about "culture".

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Response to Jim Beard (Reply #47)

Tue Sep 12, 2017, 02:10 PM

65. some folks just hated hilary and the book will not help that

they hate bill too...nothing to do with trump

they just hate the clintons

lady down the street should be a dem, she has reason to be a dem for all kinds of reasons, and i have been working on her.
Out comes the book and its back to square one

in my area it like the book was written by the local gop for a gotv effort. It is having that effect.
its bizarre to watch

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Response to Steven Maurer (Reply #7)

Mon Sep 11, 2017, 05:25 AM

17. Idaho is NOTHING like Colorado

In most regards.

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Response to JonLP24 (Original post)

Mon Sep 11, 2017, 01:53 AM

9. Right wing radio is to blame, IMO. Many people (especially men) drive many hours per day

and apparently keep their radios tuned in to whatever talk show is on, to keep themselves awake and mentally occupied.

We all know that there is very little Dem-leaning talk radio, and a dial-full of right-wing talk. These guys hear hour upon hour of this drivel, and it's all spiced up with hyperbole and stuff to make the listener feel good about himself for joining in.

Then, when they take a break or enter a place of business, more often than not, they find Fox News on the screen when lunching, etc.

Day after day, week after week, it's all they hear, it becomes their reality, and the damage is done.

Leftish radio, when you can find it, is so civil and reasonable, it doesn't get the blood flowing.

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Response to No Vested Interest (Reply #9)

Mon Sep 11, 2017, 01:56 AM

10. I think you make excellent points

On top of any other reasons information certainly has something to do with it because he didn't even know who the hell Mueller is.

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Response to JonLP24 (Reply #10)

Mon Sep 11, 2017, 08:17 PM

52. For the last two years my adult son's job requires him to be in and out of a large truck

all day every day.
Previously son was in store retail and only marginally interested in politics.
When he started this current job another man drove and tuned in Limbaugh constantly.

Now son drives solo, continues listening to Limbaugh, and brings up names - Soros, etc.- that he would not be familiar with otherwise. Son's knowledge of these people is not very deep. - Obviously he only knows and repeats what he heard on Limbaugh (and maybe Hannity).

I love my son, and he is a good man, though obviously misguided in the area of politics.
Multiply that experience by the thousands of people working out of their vehicles all day, and you can see the depth of the damage from right wing radio and TV.

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Response to No Vested Interest (Reply #9)

Mon Sep 11, 2017, 05:45 PM

31. I've seen the same driving phenomena of Reich wing radio brainwashing

My husband works for a large airline and people commute all over the Bay Area to work at the airport. The hard right wingers are the ones with the longest commutes. Those without long commutes tend to be liberal.

The movie the brainwashing of my father detailed how her Dad was a liberal and git a new job where he had a long commute And within a year became a fire breathing Reich winger full of anger. When he retired he'd listen to the radio at home. The radio broke and the wife did not replace it. Then tv went out and she figured out how to block Fox. Within a few months her Dad became himself again and not so angry. It shows up on free speech tv I'd recommend it.

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Response to kimbutgar (Reply #31)

Mon Sep 11, 2017, 07:30 PM

48. Can I borrow your crowbar?

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Response to No Vested Interest (Reply #9)

Mon Sep 11, 2017, 07:48 PM

51. Right wing radio is a perpetual shit machine.

It's designed to create 24/7 outrage. And yes in rural areas that's all they hear on the road. Then they go to work and see Fox News, then they go to church and the clergy repeat the cycle again. And it's all designed to rig the system against us. The GOP's got the rural voters in their back pocket.

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Response to JonLP24 (Original post)

Mon Sep 11, 2017, 02:12 AM

13. All the social media, Facebook, Twitter, and other platforms, have been invaded by

Russian troll farms dispensing propaganda.

Maybe that side of the family has been getting too much fake news that way.

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Response to pnwmom (Reply #13)

Mon Sep 11, 2017, 02:38 AM

16. I've seen on Pinterest much of what I hear others saying they see on FB & Twitter.

Imho, reTHUGS set out to ruin Hillary ever since she proved to be an independent thinker and couldn't be 'managed' when serving on investigation of Watergate.

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Response to JonLP24 (Original post)

Mon Sep 11, 2017, 02:24 AM

14. Fox and reich wing talk radio

Honestly, it's crippled America's moral fiber. We have allowed this poisonous information of distortion and lies permeate our public discourse, and I've seen the same thing happen in my family with my older siblings. They are impossible to even talk with any longer.

I was shocked, probably ten years ago, when my older sister remarked that she watches fox and that's where the honest news is. Today she has it going ALL DAY LONG, and she and my brother-in-law, who is slowly being eaten away with alzheimers, sit in front of that damn HUGE screen and listen to that poison the whole day long.

They used to be civil and reasonable; but not any longer. Now they are certain that fox is the last bastion of truth, and the crap they are being spoon fed is reality. It's sad. I drove across the country about 10 years ago, and I was dumb founded at how little choice there is once you are outside of the major metro areas on the radio. I often found three or four channels with rush and vannity at the same time, and NOTHING from the liberal or progressive point of view - not even NPR. The rest of the stations were a mix of country twang and the majority were evangelical bull shit nonsense.

This country is getting more lost with every passing day. And we wonder why the rural parts of America are red? Not really any longer. They are being poisoned with ignorance and lies.

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Response to Hulk (Reply #14)

Mon Sep 11, 2017, 06:36 AM

22. Yup. Why don't Dem leaders know this?

You're exactly right.

Meanwhile the NYT writes a new op ed every other day about how the REAL reason Dems lost in 2016 was about jobs. Blech.

So why don't Democratic leaders talk about the huge effects of Fox and right wing radio?

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Response to sharedvalues (Reply #22)

Mon Sep 11, 2017, 02:58 PM

24. The DNC is like a slow moving mountain of mud..

They just don't get it. They prefer to support corporate dino candidates over progressives and Bernie-backers; and they either lose to repuKKKes down the stretch, or they get elected without a spine and continue the plight of the headless leader.

I'm a Democrat, and will always be; but I'm a progressive Democrat and will always vote to move our party away from centrist nonsense to progressive ideology.

It's near impossible to move a mountain of mud.

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Response to Hulk (Reply #24)

Mon Sep 11, 2017, 06:35 PM

37. What a load of divisive crap that has nothing to do with RW radio.... some

People never miss a chance to dam Dems. Interesting.

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Response to Hulk (Reply #24)

Mon Sep 11, 2017, 07:34 PM

50. The DNC is the tractor, it must find a driver to work.

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Response to Hulk (Reply #24)

Tue Sep 12, 2017, 08:02 PM

81. +1000

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Response to JonLP24 (Original post)

Mon Sep 11, 2017, 02:26 AM

15. It's probably not where they live.

It's that they watch Fox news or listen to right wing talk radio.

Keep in mind that critical thinking is NEVER taught in high school, and most people don't get any education past h.s. Also, history and science are often very badly taught. It's not uncommon for the science or history teacher to be called "coach". And with all sincere due respect to the coaches of sports, if you haven't majored in history or science, you probably shouldn't be teaching the subject.

And add to that, most people never read another book after high school. So they're not at all connected to any sort of critical thinking, or even any additional information about anything at all. The vast majority of people watch TV, get all of their information from that source. They've never learned to think critically about anything at all (on a related note, think why most people hate buying cars: they haven't a clue how to assess what's important in the arena of car buying) and so happily absorb whatever "facts" fit their world view. They NEVER revisit any of their previously held notions of anything. They rest happily secure in the idea that their world view is set in stone. Okay, so maybe they drift a bit, but rarely in a liberal or progressive direction. They think that whatever was good for them is just fine for the younger generation. And so they don't approve of computers in school, or any other aspect of education that's not exactly what they had some twenty or thirty years earlier. As if the world hasn't changed at all in that time.

A side comment. I've noticed that parents who are doctors assume that their children can realistically assess at age 17 or 18 what they want to do for the next fifty years, because they themselves had decided they wanted to become doctors by that age, and so shouldn't everyone know their future at that point? In reality, most 18 year olds (God bless them) are still quite unformed, and will need several more years to have any sort of clue as to what they want to do for the next few years, let alone the next forty. I'm referring to those young people who go to college right out of high school. Those who choose a different path (work, military, whatever) have a somewhat different set of contingencies, but the essential truth is that 18 year olds really don't know and cannot begin to asses what they want to do for the rest of their lives .

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Response to PoindexterOglethorpe (Reply #15)

Mon Sep 11, 2017, 05:30 AM

18. I disagree.

The problem is that Democrats don't run like Democrats anymore.

They don't talk about unions, the working man, and helping the little guy

Trump ran on those issues ...and WON!



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Response to Drahthaardogs (Reply #18)

Mon Sep 11, 2017, 02:01 PM

23. For what it's worth, I lived for 18 years in Kansas

and never went over to the Republican side.

However, you are correct that Democrats running for office rarely behave like Democrats of old.

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Response to PoindexterOglethorpe (Reply #23)

Mon Sep 11, 2017, 04:57 PM

26. All we run on are social issues

And you are not going to win Colorado and Iowa based upon transgender bathrooms and global warming.


We try to run like Republicans, and then we lose.

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Response to JonLP24 (Original post)

Mon Sep 11, 2017, 06:14 AM

19. Lead in the water?

Or,

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Response to JonLP24 (Original post)

Mon Sep 11, 2017, 06:21 AM

20. Russian ads

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Response to JonLP24 (Original post)

Mon Sep 11, 2017, 06:30 AM

21. With all respect to some DUers who live there, Greeley is a hotbed of that shit---remember they

were part of the BIG TALK secessionist "movement" of several years back after the Aurora Theater shooting finally got some common sense firearm legislation through.

Even in more liberal Fort Collins, some of these morons made big rumblings on election day, plastering some of the major streets (illegally) with their ProTrump posters only feet away from some of the ballot drop off sites.

And, yeah, you'd be surprised at how Faux news impacts even otherwise seemingly sane people. They have been very effective at the propaganda, especially when they fail to report any news contrary to the party line.

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Response to hlthe2b (Reply #21)

Mon Sep 11, 2017, 04:46 PM

25. This is the area I'm talking about

got cousins, uncles, aunts in Greeley, Miliken, Loveland and it between Fort Collins & Loveland

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Response to JonLP24 (Reply #25)

Mon Sep 11, 2017, 08:35 PM

54. Add Longmont to that list

It's the conservative section of Boulder county.

Hi from Lakewood!

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Response to hlthe2b (Reply #21)

Mon Sep 11, 2017, 05:00 PM

27. With all due respect we lost Las Animas county

And barely won in Pueblo. Both Hispanic UMWA and USWA hotbeds.


We ARE abandoning our working class tovecomw a part-time of elite socially conscious citizens. That's not a fifty state strategy.

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Response to Drahthaardogs (Reply #27)

Mon Sep 11, 2017, 05:20 PM

28. the Question was about NORTHERN COLORADO

which includes NONE of the locales you mentioned. I think you are in the wrong thread (discussion board?), especially if you are defending those who wanted Colorado secession or those supporting Trump.

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Response to hlthe2b (Reply #28)

Mon Sep 11, 2017, 05:47 PM

32. I am pointing out that there is something seriously wrong

With the way we are running elections when Pueblo almost goes for Trump

Well county is almost 40 percent Hispanic and has a large working class.

Clinton barely got 35% of the vote and LOST places Democrats historically win.

I just read several posts here that think California should play a larger role in picking our candidate. We ARE losing and pretending that we lost because of Facebook is ignorant.

We Don't Run on Democratic principles any longer.

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Response to Drahthaardogs (Reply #32)

Mon Sep 11, 2017, 05:54 PM

33. then start another thread... Derailing threads is not cool. Clinton decisively won Colorado, BTW

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Response to hlthe2b (Reply #33)

Mon Sep 11, 2017, 05:56 PM

35. I'll post what I like,

Every thread on here has sub threads.

You're not even the OP. Go try to throw your weight around somewhere else.

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Response to Drahthaardogs (Reply #35)

Mon Sep 11, 2017, 05:57 PM

36. Your post is irrelevent in more ways than one.

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Response to hlthe2b (Reply #36)

Mon Sep 11, 2017, 06:46 PM

40. Your opinion.

Which probably doesn't mean too much.

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Response to Drahthaardogs (Reply #27)

Mon Sep 11, 2017, 06:41 PM

38. Socially conscious Elite is RW BULLSHIT. But feel free to rail on against identity politics as if

The oppprtunity for a safe and healthy life is less important than your paycheck.

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Response to bettyellen (Reply #38)

Mon Sep 11, 2017, 06:45 PM

39. Uh huh. That's why we lose.

Howard Dean did not lose. I wonder why??????

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Response to Drahthaardogs (Reply #39)

Mon Sep 11, 2017, 07:17 PM

45. Howard Dean actually did lose the primaries, LOL. Do you even know why Dems got screwed in the

Midterms during the Obama years? Obamacare.
Nothing makes people more "culturally anxious" than the gov handing out freebies to brown people. Cultural anxiety reached a fever pitch last year.

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Response to bettyellen (Reply #45)

Mon Sep 11, 2017, 07:21 PM

46. This definitely explains my dad

Another facebook post I remember was him saying something about Hispanics saying they should respect "our" culture instead of embracing "their" culture. I can't remember exactly what it was but definitely along those lines. Which was strange to me considering most of the Western United States used to be part of Mexico after their independence from Spain.

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Response to bettyellen (Reply #45)

Mon Sep 11, 2017, 08:20 PM

53. Howard Dean ran a fifty state strategy and won

Hillary did not even VISIT coal country and lost to the weakest candidate on modern memory.

Oh sure, she won the popular vote, but guess what? You have to win the electoral college, not a plurality of votes

She took the unions for granted and shunned the rust belt meanwhile themorangemence talked about unfair trade, auto industry, and American steel. All things DEMOCRATS used to talk about.

And that's the point. The OP is wondering what went wrong in Weld county nd someone posts some bullshit about successionists. Nonsense. Trump told the people what they needed to hear and a good portion of it we're traditional Democratic platform issues.

It's not Russia, Facebook, or conspiracy. It's a Democratic party that failed to run a campaign that appealed to what used to be there core.

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Response to Drahthaardogs (Reply #53)

Mon Sep 11, 2017, 11:49 PM

55. The racists left the Dem party a while back- and they went for Trump. We're not pandering to racist

And sexist scum. Every poll said it was racism and "cultural anxiety" while Hillary got the working class voters who were concerned about economics. I'm so sick of people wanting to pander to the fucking troglodytes who actually liked Trump. Not going to happen.


And again, we have people pretending HRC won a worse campaign than men who couldn't pull off the nomination at all. Laughably sexist foolishness!

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Response to bettyellen (Reply #55)

Tue Sep 12, 2017, 05:56 AM

56. Oh bullshit

Obama won TWICE, in a landslide against a WHITE guy. So that theory just flew out the window.

She messed up and got off message and paid the price. She ran a bad campaign and her strategy of only campaigning where she felt she needed to blew up.

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Response to Drahthaardogs (Reply #56)

Tue Sep 12, 2017, 10:48 AM

57. She campaigned in states where down ticket candidates and governors needed help.

She raised money and helped other races because all the polls said she had it till that Comey letter.
The ultimate bullshit is to pretend people weren't shocked at the result on Election Day.

Racist attitudes were the biggest predictor of support for Trump. People let trying to make it out as some populist bullshit because it's pretty horrifying to face. Actual polls say otherwise. Record numbers of white people turned up to get that wall built and deport people.

Hatred reigns but other haters won't acknowledge it though. They pretend it's normal or reasoned.

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Response to bettyellen (Reply #57)

Tue Sep 12, 2017, 11:06 AM

58. Why do you keep perpetuating this nonsense?

She lost because she figured Michigan, Pennsylvania, and Wisconsin were in the bag and failed to.campaigm there and pulled too many resources. At the last hour she realized she erred and tried to correct, but it was too late.

She did not campaign to win. She campaigned not to lose. The reality is that Trump was such a bad candidate, even with Russia, bad weather, and Facebook she should have destroyed him. She didn't.

It IS populist rhetoric because in the history of the modern world a disgruntled middle class votes in populism/facism. It's the economy, unfair wages, and a whole host of things that have absolutely nothing to do with racism that cost her the election.

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Response to Drahthaardogs (Reply #58)

Tue Sep 12, 2017, 11:11 AM

60. Polls said she got the voters who were concerned about the economy. Study up because it's not worth

My time talking to the misinformed.

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Response to bettyellen (Reply #60)

Tue Sep 12, 2017, 12:36 PM

61. Polls also said she would win by 300 EV

Studying bullshit because it says what you so desperately want to believe is a Quixotic endeavor.

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Response to Drahthaardogs (Reply #61)

Tue Sep 12, 2017, 12:39 PM

62. The Comey letter hit her hard, we both know it was the final blow.

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Response to bettyellen (Reply #62)

Tue Sep 12, 2017, 01:51 PM

63. OFFs... believe whatever you want.

She ran a brilliant campaign. Best ever.

Campaigned aggressively, never taking a historical state for granted.

She did not trust the blue wall and treated every state like a swing state.

She offered truly progressive ideas. Bernie was forced to parrot her positions on more than one instance to save face with the liberal base.

Unions we're clamoring to endorse her. She just spoke to the working men and women. She really connected with the populace.


There. Better now?

Excuse me while I go take a shower after that.

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Response to Drahthaardogs (Reply #63)

Tue Sep 12, 2017, 01:56 PM

64. You're making up a lot of shit no one said. And ignoring the polls that came out after...

Just to bolster your preconceived notions. Trump has the most racist and sexist group of supporters in modern history. Hate and anger ruled and made so many people blind- including you.

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Response to bettyellen (Reply #64)

Tue Sep 12, 2017, 04:19 PM

66. She fucking said as much in an interview on NPR today

I never hated and still don't. I was never a Bernie or Hillary or bust kind of guy. However, I am also a realist and pretending she ran a great campaign as was a victim of circumstances is the path for another four years of Trump

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Response to Drahthaardogs (Reply #66)

Tue Sep 12, 2017, 04:31 PM

67. I doubt that- you have quotes? She has said she was aware she didn't connect quite a few times

Since the election, so I am calling bullshit.
I'll apologize when you quote me that she said any of the other nonsense you attribute to her. Otherwise it's just more smearing Dems, and I'm giving you the side eye.

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Response to bettyellen (Reply #67)

Tue Sep 12, 2017, 05:18 PM

68. She said

She regrets not connecting with the working man

She regrets saying coal country was going to lose a lot of jobs

She admitted it WAS ultimately her fault for losing.

Apologize now please

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Response to Drahthaardogs (Reply #68)

Tue Sep 12, 2017, 07:20 PM

69. None of that matches your claims in this post:

". OFFs... believe whatever you want.
She ran a brilliant campaign. Best ever.

Campaigned aggressively, never taking a historical state for granted.

She did not trust the blue wall and treated every state like a swing state.

She offered truly progressive ideas. Bernie was forced to parrot her positions on more than one instance to save face with the liberal base.

Unions we're clamoring to endorse her. She just spoke to the working men and women. She really connected with the populace.


There. Better now?

Excuse me while I go take a shower after that."


Not sure where this crap came from, but it wasn't Hillary, nor was it any of her supporters at DU. It's nonsense, spewed to denigrate her. You're just making crap up.

Meanwhile the OP has admitted his relatives dislike Latinos and their problems are "cultural anxiety"- but you still pretend there's another answer to his question. That's bullshit and you know it.

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Response to bettyellen (Reply #69)

Tue Sep 12, 2017, 07:22 PM

70. Whatever...

Typical.

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Response to Drahthaardogs (Reply #70)

Tue Sep 12, 2017, 07:24 PM

71. You make no sense- and stretch the truth to defend racist sexist assholes who voted for DT -and

Attack our nominee. Typical defense of Trump voters.

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Response to bettyellen (Reply #71)

Tue Sep 12, 2017, 08:39 PM

83. Our nominee lost to the worst candidate on history

And all you can say is racist, misogyny... meanwhile the BLACK candidate won TWICE in a landslide.

You ignore facts and when faced with reality go "Trump supporter", which would actually kind of piss me off if your whole premise were not so ridiculous as to be hilarious. It's hard to take you seriously.

The simplest answers are usually the right ones. She was a terribly flawed candidate who ran a bad campaign. She even noted on NPR today how she regrets being self righteous and so reluctant to apologise.

You don't need to chase dragons.

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Response to Drahthaardogs (Reply #83)

Wed Sep 13, 2017, 02:22 AM

85. She lost by a sliver to a TVstar given billions or dollars of free air time.

Who despite spewing complete lies almost daily, was never really called out on them until he'd won. Misspoke they said, again and again. While the same people sneered at HRC- because they assumed, like you, she'd easily win. Everyone thought she would- and should, by they wanted a close match. So they made one.

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Response to bettyellen (Reply #69)

Tue Sep 12, 2017, 07:35 PM

72. Only my dad I can say for certain

His sister married a Latino in either the 80s or 70s. My mom says she was definitely liberal. Also she told me one time he got into a fight with his brother-in-law in almost broke out into a gun battle. I don't know her politics since I noticed only her son (my cousin) posted on Facebook but I can't access my account to know what their politics are. My brother I found out he liked Trump on Sunday over the phone but I don't know if it is racial reasons but how can you still like Trump after all the bullshit he said? His very first campaign speech he called Mexicans "rapists". So I wouldn't bet against "cultural anxiety" being a contributing factor especially since Loveland is 94%+ white so he's only been around mostly white people the last 13 years.

FTR I agree mostly with what you're saying. I think misinformation is also a big part of it as well.

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Response to JonLP24 (Reply #72)

Tue Sep 12, 2017, 07:41 PM

73. The weird thing is- people think "being a racist" means using slurs and approving on beat downs of

POC. Nope- that's being an abusive racist. Holding certain negative beliefs about POC - lien the ones commonly featured on Fox News- that makes you racist to a certain extent. If you can watch the way they portray POC and think it's real- your at best misguided with okay with shitty casual racism. It's a lot more common and insidious than people realize.

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Response to bettyellen (Reply #73)

Tue Sep 12, 2017, 07:43 PM

74. I agree 100%

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Response to JonLP24 (Reply #74)

Tue Sep 12, 2017, 07:48 PM

75. So like sexism, there are lots of people who've internalized shitty attitudes and don't realize it..

And plenty that do who wouldn't ever admit it.

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Response to bettyellen (Reply #75)

Tue Sep 12, 2017, 07:52 PM

76. I agree that is also a big part of it

Especially considering her opponent (Trump) bragged about sexual battery and supporters dismissed as "locker room" talk. The same week as the leak Inside the nFL host Brandon Marshall (who had his own problems with women) said people don't talk like this in locker rooms.

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Response to JonLP24 (Reply #76)

Tue Sep 12, 2017, 08:05 PM

82. Yeah, he was bragging about literally having a habit of assaulting women.

And very few people even reported it as being that. I remember Anderson Cooper being the first news person to accurately characterize it as bragging about assaults.
Scary how many people will minimize shit like that. But it happens in real life too. No one wants to believe that people they know assault or rape people. Yet it happens.

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Response to JonLP24 (Original post)

Mon Sep 11, 2017, 05:29 PM

29. All I would say to them is...

How Bizarre!

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Response to JonLP24 (Original post)

Mon Sep 11, 2017, 05:32 PM

30. They're scared to death of anyone not white like them...

... they know how they treat minorities and are afraid of what will happen when *they* are minorities.

What they don't know is that it doesn't happen that way.

Their grandkids, maybe even their kids, are going to be cosmopolitan. They'll have LGBT friends, non-white friends, and if their home towns remain bigoted, then the misfits, the best and brightest, will move away.

It's the fear of people whose world is shrinking. Rather than embrace the outside world they build walls. They connect with people as fearful as they are, and they are targeted by grifters who exploit their fears.

My grandparents all fled the fabled "great" white America. Make America Great Again? Really??? My grandparents were white, they had privilege, their parents went to the right churches, and they HATED it.

I had one grandfather who hadn't quite made the break. He was upset when I decided to marry, in his words, "A Mexican girl," since men in his Wild West family (Wyoming and Montana) just didn't do that. But to his credit, he got over it. And, it was like he should talk... He joined the Army Air Corp to get the hell out of cow town and see the world, and then he married my grandma, who with her sister had escaped their own proper affluent white upstanding Christian hell to run wild in Hollywood California.




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Response to JonLP24 (Original post)

Mon Sep 11, 2017, 05:56 PM

34. Same thing happened to my mom's side of the famiy. They were strong Dems, pro-union, etc.

Now all of a sudden they're Trump humpers.

I don't get it.

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Response to JonLP24 (Original post)

Mon Sep 11, 2017, 06:49 PM

41. Side effect of legalizing pot of course!

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Response to whistler162 (Reply #41)

Tue Sep 12, 2017, 07:58 PM

78. i dunno... seems to relax all my relatives....that and tequila!

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Response to whistler162 (Reply #41)

Tue Sep 12, 2017, 08:01 PM

80. It's never affected us

but finding out her former relatives are Republicans surprised her because they were liberal potsmokers in the 80s. My grandma never was but was a Democrat and obviously turned Conservative in her last years. It was just her sons & daughters that were. She has 10 grandchildren!

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Response to JonLP24 (Original post)

Mon Sep 11, 2017, 06:50 PM

42. It may be difficult, but tell them they have been unknowingly smitten by Russian bots and

 

explain to them what they are and what happened during the 2016 campaign and election. They won't want to believe that they have been snookered but they won't be able to un-hear it. They won't admit it to you but it will make a difference the next time they keep hearing fake scandals and news from the RW. Send them the info you find right here on DU.

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Response to haveahart (Reply #42)

Mon Sep 11, 2017, 06:55 PM

43. I would if I could actually get into my Facebook account

I changed the password awhile ago and when I tried to get back in it referred me to my Yahoo or old hotmail account which are both locked even with me entering correct passwords because they've been hacked. The phone number option doesn't work either because I don't have the same number as I did when I opened the account which is probably a good thing I can't get in because I don't want to read half of what shows up on my feed.

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Response to JonLP24 (Original post)

Tue Sep 12, 2017, 11:09 AM

59. Douglas Adams was right: human intelligence is so primitive, it's considered an infectious disease

in some parts of the galaxy.

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Response to JonLP24 (Original post)

Tue Sep 12, 2017, 07:56 PM

77. so i guess your relatives support sexual predators? thats how....

... I have decided to approach it with anyone who gets in my face.

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Response to samnsara (Reply #77)

Tue Sep 12, 2017, 08:00 PM

79. Another thing to keep in mind if there is a next time

I imagine my mom & brother don't want to speak to each other anymore. He didn't ask to speak to me for some reason.

Another thing I was thinking of was "malignant narcissist" in case he decides to look it up because it fits Trump to a 'T'.

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Response to JonLP24 (Original post)

Tue Sep 12, 2017, 10:12 PM

84. Inbreeding

Weld County is an agricultural county, farming and livestock (mostly cattle). So even those kids who grow up in the "big city" of Greeley are at least conversationally familiar with the basics of animal husbandry. The breeding programs are closely monitored to avoid the pitfalls of inbreeding; unfortunately, that wisdom seems to have some difficulty finding purchase in the local politics. It's been about thirty years since anyone but Republicans have been allowed on the board of county commissioners, and it shows. This past year has seen some very nasty contention between the board members. Enter the County Council, established in the '70s to oversee the commishes; they see stuff they don't like and retain the services of an accounting firm to look into the mess, including in the investigation the operations of the county clerk's office; and it bears mentioning that the county clerk is the step-child of one of the most contentious commishes. Yikes.

One of the other commishes is a huge fan of "one-party rule", and has said so in public, never mind that human history is sadly fraught with the bloody scars of such thinking. But then, she has been known to boast of herself that she's "Weld County's own Sarah Palin" (and the poor thing thinks that should be a compliment!). Proving that self-assertion, when CBS came to town to cover the 51st state effort, she looked right at the camera and stated repeatedly that "the Constitution guarantees our right to suck-cede" -- she meant secede, but no one succeeded in correcting her.

Meanwhile, over on the Greeley city council, our mayor is THANK GOD term limited. Under his guiding hand fracking became allowed within city limits; he claimed to be uninfluenced by extraction industry money, but his campaign(s) events tended to be hosted at industry offices; he listened hard to citizens who spoke up in favor of all the drilling, and set aside the reams of evidence of negative health impacts presented by local doctors, dismissing the studies as "irrelevant". A couple of years ago he actively sought someone to run against a Democratic council candidate, and he was not at all pleased when she was elected in spite of his efforts, giving the city council one seat not occupied by a Republican (she's also a proud gay Latina); she's the Democrats' toe in the door. Meanwhile, the mayor's wife just announced that she's retiring from the presidency of the University; under her administration UNC students have been treated to the joy of a president who had no problem making sure that drilling companies had permission to frack under the campus. With her departure and the mayor leaving, maybe we can leave behind the politically incestuous relationship between the U and the city.

The rest of the city council did us no favors recently when one of their members resigned. With elections coming up in November, the council was urged to fill the seat temporarily with someone who was not on the ballot. Thumbing their collective noses at citizen concerns, they chose the Republican to fill the seat; the singular Democrat voted for a non-candidate. More inbreeding.

There was a time when we enjoyed a two-hour time slot on Saturday afternoon talk radio; this was commonly referred to as "evil liberal media bias". That time slot went away a couple of years ago, so the "librul" accusations are now aimed at newspapers, most notably the Greeley Tribune (which is, in reality, a bit too far to the right to ever be considered any kind of liberal).

That same newspaper, a couple years back, ran an article about voter registrations in the county. Republicans held 38%, the balance being divided between unaffiliated and Democrats. The headline on the article was "Republicans Dominate." My reaction was, in what universe does 38% dominate? So I made a bumper sticker, purple with white numbers proclaiming "62%". I've lost count of the number of conversations that sticker has started, people wanting to know what it means; some are genuinely surprised to learn that 62% of us are NOT Republicans, given that roughly 95% of elected positions are filled by Republicans. That's when I encourage involvement. And the involvement is easier to start for Democrats, because we have an actual for real physical office where people can go in and have conversation and ask questions; Republicans have a PO Box and an email address, little hard to drop in for a visit. If you're in the library and notice a table for voter registration, the people working that table are Democrats. We've gotten really good at it, too; back in 2012 our teams registered over 12000, a number so impressive that the newspaper gave the credit to the Republican county clerk.

Anyway, we have some terrific candidates running for local offices this year, and more candidates for state and federal offices next year. For us, it's always uphill. The remarkable thing is, the number of people stepping up is increasing. Yes! It's a tough slog, but those toes in the door are making a difference.

So, maybe you could encourage your family members to drop in for a chat with their party people. When they can't find them to talk to, they can drop in for a visit with us. Because we actually have a door. And it's open.

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Response to JonLP24 (Original post)

Wed Sep 13, 2017, 02:34 AM

86. My uncle was a moderate independent until he retired.

Now he is an ultra-right wing Republican. He spends a lot of time watching Fox News and reading right-wing stuff online. I have a friend who used to be a Democrat but didn't vote for Clinton because he said she was too corrupt. He didn't vote for Trump either but lately he has been ranting and raving about the Democrats being "socialists" who want to take his money.

I agree that I have been noticing a lot of people who I used to think were liberal or moderate going off on how much they hate the Democrats while giving the Republicans a pass. Maybe because we controlled the presidency for the last 8 years people blame the Dems for everything? I don't know.

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