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Sat Sep 9, 2017, 08:48 PM

The problems are bigger than Bernie, bigger than Hillary, bigger than any set of policies either one

Last edited Sat Sep 9, 2017, 11:57 PM - Edit history (1)

could have put forth.

If you think Bernie would have had a better chance than Hillary, then you'd have to believe that Russia would have been fine with a Bernie win -- even though Trump was the one they'd been cultivating for years, and Trump was the one they were counting on to drop the Ukraine sanctions and to overturn the Magnitsky Act.

Why would anyone think Russia wouldn't have intervened on Trump's behalf no matter who was the Democratic nominee? Do you think Bernie is the kind of man the Russian billionaires and oligarchs would have wanted to be President? How could anyone with respect for Bernie believe that to be true?

Hillary didn't lose because she was less POPULAR. She lost because of James Comey's letters and because of some even more important factors -- more important because they're not going away. They will be used against us in every election going forward, unless we can stop them.

The big problems are voter suppression, Russian meddling, and targeted voter propaganda through Twitter, Google, Facebook, and other forms of social media. There is no question that the Trump campaign, through Cambridge Analytica, did this -- and that the Russians did this. The only question is how much they conspired together in the propaganda campaign.

We need to figure out how to defend the democratic process from fake news and micro-targeted AI propaganda -- or lose our democracy.


ON UPDATE: Deleting your Facebook account won't solve the problem. The propaganda is being pushed all over the web on all the social media. And even if you were to cut yourself off from all forms of social media, millions of others are getting all their news, and fake news, from these sources.

If you only have time to read one article today, please read this:

https://toinformistoinfluence.com/2017/02/17/the-rise-of-the-weaponized-ai-propaganda-machine/

“This is a propaganda machine. It’s targeting people individually to recruit them to an idea. It’s a level of social engineering that I’ve never seen before. They’re capturing people and then keeping them on an emotional leash and never letting them go,” said professor Jonathan Albright.

Albright, an assistant professor and data scientist at Elon University, started digging into fake news sites after Donald Trump was elected president. Through extensive research and interviews with Albright and other key experts in the field, including Samuel Woolley, Head of Research at Oxford University’s Computational Propaganda Project, and Martin Moore, Director of the Centre for the Study of Media, Communication and Power at Kings College, it became clear to Scout that this phenomenon was about much more than just a few fake news stories. It was a piece of a much bigger and darker puzzle — a Weaponized AI Propaganda Machine being used to manipulate our opinions and behavior to advance specific political agendas.

SNIP

Because dark posts are only visible to the targeted users, there’s no way for anyone outside of Analytica or the Trump campaign to track the content of these ads. In this case, there was no SEC oversight, no public scrutiny of Trump’s attack ads. Just the rapid-eye-movement of millions of individual users scanning their Facebook feeds.


In the weeks leading up to a final vote, a campaign could launch a $10-100 million dark post campaign targeting just a few million voters in swing districts and no one would know. This may be where future ‘black-swan’ election upsets are born.

“These companies,” Moore says, “have found a way of transgressing 150 years of legislation that we’ve developed to make elections fair and open.”

SNIP





UPDATE: Examples of some of the dark ads are here:

http://www.thedailybeast.com/30-batsht-crazy-mostly-racist-facebook-memes-the-russians-used-to-corrupt-your-mind?yptr=yahoo

19 replies, 2439 views

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Always highlight: 10 newest replies | Replies posted after I mark a forum
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Arrow 19 replies Author Time Post
Reply The problems are bigger than Bernie, bigger than Hillary, bigger than any set of policies either one (Original post)
pnwmom Sep 2017 OP
Me. Sep 2017 #1
msongs Sep 2017 #2
lunamagica Sep 2017 #3
democratisphere Sep 2017 #4
Initech Sep 2017 #5
RandomAccess Sep 2017 #10
aikoaiko Sep 2017 #6
mjvpi Sep 2017 #7
RandomAccess Sep 2017 #11
hedda_foil Sep 2017 #19
clu Sep 2017 #8
pnwmom Sep 2017 #14
longship Sep 2017 #9
RandomAccess Sep 2017 #12
pnwmom Sep 2017 #13
mopinko Sep 2017 #15
pnwmom Sep 2017 #16
mopinko Sep 2017 #18
Iggo Sep 2017 #17

Response to pnwmom (Original post)

Sat Sep 9, 2017, 08:54 PM

1. k r

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Response to pnwmom (Original post)

Sat Sep 9, 2017, 09:02 PM

2. twitter has taken over DU. mission accomplished nt

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Response to pnwmom (Original post)

Sat Sep 9, 2017, 09:02 PM

3. YES!!! Thank you! It bothers me when I see people posting "If we only nominate such or such

s/he will trounce trump"

Come on! that's a fantasy! As long as the Russians intervene and other irregularities aren't corrected, we will lose, no matter who our candidate is.

Thank pnwmom, thank you, you explained it so much better than I ever could!

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Response to pnwmom (Original post)

Sat Sep 9, 2017, 09:05 PM

4. If we don't get our act together, Putin will be deciding who our candidates will be.

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Response to pnwmom (Original post)

Sat Sep 9, 2017, 09:13 PM

5. Our whole government has been compromised. From top to bottom.

It's going to take a hell of a lot of undoing to rid ourselves of this madness.

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Response to Initech (Reply #5)

Sat Sep 9, 2017, 10:30 PM

10. Uh, mostly if not entirely on the R side

 

I think entirely.

but if you have other info, by all means share.

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Response to pnwmom (Original post)

Sat Sep 9, 2017, 09:28 PM

6. Isn't political deceit as old as politics?


In no way do I think our previous elections have been free of the same issues discussed in the OP, albeit to a lesser degree.

The only differences appear to be the technology which impacts scope and the source (Russia).

Before we knew it was the Russians, we feared the Koch brothers would do something like this.

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Response to pnwmom (Original post)

Sat Sep 9, 2017, 09:34 PM

7. I can't help wondering if this is what feeds the Bernie HRC vitriol at sites like DU.

The crap that comes out in those posts. The only point seems to be to amplify the dissonance. This points out who we really have to watch out for. A little clue. The enemy is not someone that you agree with 98% of the time.

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Response to mjvpi (Reply #7)

Sat Sep 9, 2017, 10:33 PM

11. I feel certain there are some --

 

I thought I'd run across one such poster myself. I know I found one on FB in my newsfeed. Cyrillic in the profile was a confirmation, tho not all have that.

They will happily exploit ANY differences between us. Any and all.

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Response to mjvpi (Reply #7)

Sun Sep 10, 2017, 01:34 AM

19. Undoubtedly. Whether it's bots all the way down or folks sharing bot-built videos with real friends

It's been obvious since late 2015.

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Response to pnwmom (Original post)

Sat Sep 9, 2017, 09:36 PM

8. VRWC

 

Cambridge analytica was on TV IIRC questioning the Venezuela election. Yes I agree 100% you have to be circumspect. However ultimately people make up their own minds and the worst possible outcome of this ad campaign may be that someone sees a post to a FB group of a fake friend, and then decides to go read more about something.

in the case of messageboard /pol/ I can sincerely believe a good part of the trump groundswell was organic in nature, manipulated or not.



there are a lot of people on some messageboards and it's like a ripe zit that was ready to pop

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Response to clu (Reply #8)

Sat Sep 9, 2017, 10:47 PM

14. You are crediting people with making up their own minds. Unfortunately, in this last election

too many had their minds made up for them through the use of highly sophisticated artificial intelligence programs that literally followed them around the web, analyzed what approaches appealed to them, and then fed them highly targeted propaganda.

In an election that was decided by only 70K votes over 3 states, the part of the trump "groundswell" that was influenced by this propaganda was a critical factor.

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Response to pnwmom (Original post)

Sat Sep 9, 2017, 10:21 PM

9. Above all, we need to be united here.

I live in Michigan, in a very rural area, surrounded by national forest. Here, the GOP rules. The MI state GOP is basically run by the DeVos family, of AmWay and Calvinist religion fame. Half the city of Grand Rapids is named for DeVos. That's only a minor exaggeration. As to the Calvinists, they roll up the sidewalks in downtown Grand Rapids on Sunday. It's the walking dead there on Sundays.

Here, Democrats are far and few between, so we tend to hunker down and stick together.

I vote straight Democratic Party every election. One really has no other choice. The GOP here is an insidious curse.

I enthusiastically supported and voted for Bernie Sanders in the Michigan primary. I did likewise for Hillary Clinton in the general election. I like them both, very very much.

Now we have to get it together.

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Response to pnwmom (Original post)

Sat Sep 9, 2017, 10:35 PM

12. SUPERB post

 

I think a link to this thread will be my response to any and all future Clinton/Bernie threads.

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Response to RandomAccess (Reply #12)

Sat Sep 9, 2017, 10:42 PM

13. Thank you, RandomAccess! n/t

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Response to pnwmom (Original post)

Sat Sep 9, 2017, 11:49 PM

15. fb needs to release all those ads and all those bots.

we really need to see what kind of crap was tossed around. we need to be ready. they wont come back because they are still here, and still at it.
and yes, here.

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Response to pnwmom (Reply #16)

Sun Sep 10, 2017, 12:04 AM

18. i saw those today.

disgusting bullshit. it worries me how many swallow that kind of tripe.
but we really need to have a serious discussion about media literacy and about the corrosive nature of hate.

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Response to pnwmom (Original post)

Sat Sep 9, 2017, 11:59 PM

17. Finally!



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