Robert Mueller makes move that suggests he's going after Mike Pence also

[sandensea]

Special Counsel Robert Mueller is closing in on Trump from so many angles it’s hard to keep track.It’s only a matter of time before Trump is removed from office.

The only question is whether or not Mike Pence will go down with him and from the looks of it, he will.

Michael Flynn was the beginning of the end for the current administration. The New York Times is reporting that Robert Mueller is now asking for the White House to turn over documents pertaining to Flynn’s employment as a foreign agent and with the Trump campaign.

Mueller is supposedly investigating whether Flynn was getting kickbacks from his time on the Trump campaign, which would be classified as fraud.

Why is this significant for Mike Pence?

Flynn has already admitted to the Trump team that he was a paid foreign agent, but he was still hired for the National Security Adviser position. Mike Pence knew Michael Flynn was a criminal, but claimed his innocence anyways.

Mueller’s investigation into these kickbacks brings up the question, did Pence know about those too? If Pence knew about these crimes then he committed obstruction of justice.

At: http://www.bluedotdaily.com/makes-move-that-suggests-hes-going-after-mike-pence-also/

Pence wanted a fetus funeral? How about his gestating presidential ambitions.

[redstatebluegirl]

1. We will know Mueller is getting close when the Congress starts to move quickly on their "core"

issues. If they get Pence, Ryan won't be far behind.

[WoonTars]

3. Exactly. Look for quick movement on tax "reform" when they get back...

Once that gets passed i think they'll let the impeachment process gather steam...

[elfin]

47. Agree. That is the only thing they care about

For their own greed via investments and future "campaign" donations from grateful Kochs, Mercers etc. that they somehow magically convert to their own personal uses.

Once the pockets are filled, then adios Trump and even Pence as long as they still have a majority and plenty bucks for false ads to keep the stranglehold on our once great nation.

[maddiemom]

45. Let's hope! Ryan is unacceptable.

But then, Hatch? The electoral system needs a major overhaul, and provisions for a re-vote. Between Hillary and third party candidates, 9,000,000 more voted against Trump than for him. The excuse for the Electoral College was to prevent a shifty candidate taking office. Thanks for the mess, E.C!

[ElementaryPenguin]

69. Can't BELIEVE I'm having to root for Orin Hatch as President...

But I am!!

[zentrum]

70. That's not the purpose of the

.....Electoral College as I understand it. It was created to reassure the states that had less population that the powerful Northern states would not take away their slaves. It's a way to protect a smaller collection of citizen's (usually rural) from having to concede to the majority of the population (which lived/lives in cities).

It was also a way to keep a certain power elite (white male property owners with clout) unhindered by the popular vote. It was a brake, a filter--so they could get the candidate they wanted.

Today, it allows the sparsely populated and often Southern or Western state's voter to have more power in his/her individual vote than a voter in a densely populated area.

Under the guise of protecting people from a "shifty candidate".

[maddiemom]

91. Oh, you're right about the actual, original purpose for the E. C.

No point in belaboring what the E.C. has now really become: favoring the "salt of the earth" rural white "Christians" in less populated areas over the "melting pot" areas with considerable diversity. Five elections: two minority vote POTUS winners (disregarding other factors in play).

[eggplant]

71. At this point, I'll gladly take Hatch. n/t

[Bernardo de La Paz]

86. Doesn't work that way. Read rest of thread to discover how it actually works. No Ryan, no Hatch.

Simultaneity is unlikely and, in the alternative, Ryan will not accept appointment as VP.

[maddiemom]

92. Uh, in order: House Speaker, President Pro Temp of the Senate.

After that, down through (Trump appointed) Cabinet members. This is not to say whoever else might be appointed, resign, or whatever. Gerald Ford was House minority leader when Agnew "left" as V.P., and chosen to replace him (Carl Albert was House speaker) by agreement of congressional leaders and Nixon.

[Bernardo de La Paz]

96. Doesn't matter the order. Never get there. Read the thread about simultaneity.

Or read the online materials if you think simultaneity is not an issue.

It's not a question of "might be appointed". The President appoints a new VP. That is the law. Look up the online materials.

House MINORITY Leader is NOT Speaker.

[Algernon Moncrieff]

118. Think Spiro Agnew and Nixon

Difference then was two different scandals. Nixon had to appoint Ford, and he picked him specifically because he knew he'd sail easily through the approval process.

Second point: (and i know you get this BdLP). The President would have to be impeached, tried, and found guilty to be removed. At this point I think Trump would be far more likely to be removed than Pence. Trump could pardon Pence prior to leaving office, which doesn't get him off of the impeachment hook, but would send a signal that he should be kept for the sake of stability.

[Bladewire]

65. ☝️ This 🇺🇸

It's looking like our systems protections are kicking in.

The Electoral College should be disbanded they were supposed to protect us from the president like Trump.

[bdamomma]

101. The Electoral College

needs to go. We should have one vote whoever gets the most votes wins.

[Bladewire]

102. I agree 100%

[spooky3]

2. Lock Him Up!

[sandensea]

6. They can stick him in with Cheeto and Crisco - if they'll all fit.

[dubyadiprecession]

59. Pence reminds me of the warden from Shawshank Redemption.

[sandensea]

61. Right. Crooked as a dog's hind leg and hypocritical as hell.

Of course, that applies to most GOP congresscritters these days.

[grantcart]

4. My first reaction was that this was a stretch.

How would Pence know that Flynn's action were likely criminal in nature. I assumed that his degree was in advanced Sunday School.

Who knew that Pence had a law degree lol.

Pence graduated from Hanover College and earned a law degree from the Indiana University Robert H. McKinney School of Law

[wishstar]

66. Pence and Kushner are both lawyers, both knowingly lied and covered up

Pence was selected over a year ago and has been in on many inner circle meetings, including WH meetings where Trump, Kushner and others discussed whether and how to fire Comey.

[dixiegrrrrl]

77. Dems sent Pence a letter telling him Flynn was a double agent. Last November.

The top Democrat on the House Committee on Oversight and Government Reform told then Vice President-elect Mike Pence in a November letter that the man Donald Trump had tapped to be his national security adviser was lobbying on behalf of a foreign government.

The letter, a copy of which was shared with McClatchy, contradicts White House claims that neither Pence nor Trump knew of Michael Flynn’s lobbying until it was revealed in a Justice Department filing this week.

http://www.mcclatchydc.com/news/politics-government/white-house/article137853633.html

It was a clever move. Pence denied knowing anything, but the letter laid out what Flynn was up to.
Pence hired Flynn anyway.

[Bernardo de La Paz]

88. Yes, Pence KNEW. This is key & is in addition to lots of inside info Pence undoubtedly had. . nt

[northoftheborder]

114. Thanks - had not learned of this

[Gothmog]

5. I have no doubt that Pence is also dirty

[lapucelle]

103. BlueDot Daily?

Is it reliable? I'm not familiar with this website and their About Us page is sketchy.

I agree with you about Pence. The ticket was dirty.

http://www.bluedotdaily.com/about/

[George II]

109. This may be a rerun of the Nixon administration - first Agnew, then Nixon resigned.

[procon]

7. There's no way that Pence isn't up to his eyebrows in that whole mess.

He was just smart enough to keep his mouth shut and not blab about what he knows. Maybe Mueller’s investigation will coax him to sing like a birdie.

[PatSeg]

40. Yes

You have to keep your eye on those quiet ones. He puts on that calm, poised mask and stays in the background biding his time. I wouldn't under estimate this guy, he is plotting and planning.

[not fooled]

80. Oh, yes

he's also a total kochbot tool. And prolly thinks bearing false witness is A-OK if he does it for jeebus.

Funny how in these crackpots' minds the interests of the billionaires so often coincide with What Jesus Would Do. Because of course Jesus was all about starving the poor in order to give tax cuts to billionaires

Or so they think.

[PatSeg]

99. Guess you can justify almost anything

in the name of Jesus - the ends justify the means, all for the glory of god. I know a lot of things in the bible could be considered symbolic, but Jesus was very clear when he spoke of the poor and the sick. I don't think his teachings about the rich and hypocrites was particularly vague either, yet the Pences of the world conveniently overlook them. Too focused on their neighbors' sins I suppose.

Must be nice to cherry pick what rules you will and will not obey.

[Me.]

8. YES & Double Yes

[tblue37]

9. I hope he is also looking into the Russiann money that poured into GOP campaigns--

including Ryan's and McConnell's.

Oh, and maybe money laundering by Nunes and perhaps direct bribery of Rohrabacher.

[Baitball Blogger]

10. If Pence goes, then we're looking at a President Ryan. But if Ryan goes, then it's

President Hatch?

[sandensea]

13. I guess so.

Better Borin' Orrin than Ayn Ryan.

[oxbow]

15. I think McConnell is somewhere in that line of succession

They're all bad but the more are removed the better. It will show everyone that the not just the admin but the heads of the GOP were involved with Russia and dirty money. This is about more than the next 3+ years...one step at a time, we need to take back the country for those who will come after us.

[sandensea]

16. Hmm. They'd have to knock off the entire kitchen cabinet.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_presidential_line_of_succession

And with our luck lately, the only survivor will be...

[bigbrother05]

17. Once it gets past the Speaker (Ryan) and Prez Pro Tem (Hatch), it moves to the cabinet

Think Sec'y of State is 1st, but not sure of the pecking order.

[Bernardo de La Paz]

38. No. Please don't post random unfounded speculations. . . . nt

[Baitball Blogger]

63. Just following the rites of succession.

[Bernardo de La Paz]

72. No. You are not. It does not work that way. Read up on it and read this thread for guidance. nt

[oxbow]

81. My mistake. Misremembered the order of succession. Nt

[Bernardo de La Paz]

83. More than just the order. It doesn't work the way you think it does.

It wouldn't matter if McCONnell was number 3 or number 23.

You need to read up on this.

If tRump goes first, Pence appoints a VP.

If Pence goes first, Trump appoints a new VP.

The only way Ryan is raised is if both Trump and Pence go so close to simultaneously that they don't appoint a VP. Ryan does not want it and will not accept appointment unless forced by circumstances because he wants to try to be Reagan in 2024 versus whoever defeats tRump's replacement in 2020 (a la Ford).

[Baitball Blogger]

112. .

[lastlib]

110. No, the Majority Leader is not in the line of succession.

Only the Speaker of the House and the President Pro Tem of the Senate (in that order).

[thesquanderer]

33. They won't all go simultaneously so there's almost no way it could get as far down as Hatch.

If Trump goes before Pence, Pence becomes Pres and will nominate his own VP.

If Pence goes before Trump, Trump will nominate someone new as VP.

The odds that both the pres and VP positions will be vacant simultaneously are small, and that's the only way it gets to Ryan. For it to go even beyond Ryan to Hatch, Ryan will have to have resigned or been removed from office at the same time that Trump and Pence are both gone and even then, it only happens if the House had not yet elected a new Speaker to take Ryan's place.

So the odds of things getting to Hatch are very remote.

[Bernardo de La Paz]

36. Correct. . . . nt

[yardwork]

46. When Agnew resigned, Nixon picked the House Minority Leader as his new VP.

That's how Jerry Ford became president. But Nixon was more reasonable than Trump.

We don't want Pence to go first. Trump would pick somebody even worse as VP, and that person would become president when Trump inevitably falls. Imagine President Jeff Sessions.

Edited to correct Ford's position.

[thesquanderer]

53. Yes, another way for Ryan or Hatch (or anyone else) to become president...

...is to assume a new position. If Trump or Pence were to name Ryan, Hatch, or someone else as their VP, that person would become president ahead of whoever may be in the position of Speaker.

[Bernardo de La Paz]

85. Ryan would not accept appointment as VP by Trump or Pence. Ryan wants to be Reagan in 2024

Ryan does not want to be Ford in 2020.

[bpj62]

57. House Minority Leader

Ford was the House Minority Leader. The Democrasts controlled both chambers of Congress during tghge Nixon Admiinistration.

[yardwork]

76. Thanks. I'll correct my post.

[sandensea]

60. Ford was minority leader - but yes, point well taken.

Ford would have indeed been speaker at the time if the GOP had been in the majority (the speaker was the very reticent Carl Albert from Oklahoma, whom Tip O'Neill had to really push to get impeachment hearings going).

But as you pointed out, Trump's new VP would be no Jerry Ford - he'd be the most extreme John Birch armageddonist he could possibly find.

Jeb Hensarling, perhaps?

[Bernardo de La Paz]

35. No, and again no. It does NOT work like that. Read up on it.

Only way Hatch is raised is if Trump (Republicon), Pence (Republican), and Ryan (Republican) exit simultaneously without appointing a VP.

[Baitball Blogger]

82. How can you be so sure that Mueller won't move swiftly and call them all in at the same time?

If they do that, do you think the Republicans want them to select the successor?

[Bernardo de La Paz]

84. Nobody can be sure, but it is highly unlikely that Pence, Ryan & Trump go so nearly simultaneously

... so nearly simultaneously that they don't appoint a new VP between the three of them.

Even if Mueller "calls them all in at the same time" they would still have to be impeached or resign and all of that takes time.

Three of them simultaneously? You have better chances of winning the lottery and being struck by lightning on the same day.

[Pauldg47]

111. But this was an illigitimate election...so they all should be out....

Then we should have a rerun between Hillary and Bernie....right?

[octoberlib]

11. YES! And then we get who......Paul Ryan? I hope he's dirty , too.

[Hun Joro]

12. I hope they all fall like dominoes.

[hunter]

14. Pence is dirty or he wouldn't be vice president.

The Republicans stick together like any other gang. Nobody trusts anyone else, so it's not possible to rise to power unless your fellow gangsters know you are dirty as they are and have as much to lose as they do.

It's a society held together by blackmail and threats of mutually assured destruction.

[BigmanPigman]

50. Manafort recommended Pence for the position so he must be

guilty of more than knowing abdomen lying about Flynn.

[WinkyDink]

75. PERZACKLY!!

[GallopingGhost]

18. Good.

Can't stand Pence, and he is dirty as hell.

"I stand by the PeeResident...I stand by the PeeResident..."

[ffr]

19. Because tRump's web of deception ties them all in together.

I'd like few things more than to see that smug look wiped off that stupid face of his.

[Honeycombe8]

20. I think the Pence connection in this scenario is a stretch.

But we can hope, can't we?

[Bernardo de La Paz]

32. It's because of what he knew 'bout Flynn in the Transition and lied about. . . . nt

[renegade000]

62. Well, Pence evidently was Paul Manafort's pick...

So that's another fishy part of it.

[dchill]

104. Yes.

[obamanut2012]

21. I started saying "Future President Orrin Hatch" in March

As horrible as he is, he at least isn't a fucking Nazi, and will have Nancy Pelosi as SoTH to deal with in early 2019.

[Bernardo de La Paz]

31. No. Does not work like that.

Trump (Republican) and Pence (Republicon) and Ryan (Republicon) would have to all exit simultaneously or before appointing a new VP.

[obamanut2012]

95. Quit lecturing me -- I know how it works

I think there is a very good chance all of them in the succession down to Hatch will go at once, depending on what Mueller finds, and who caves.

[Bernardo de La Paz]

97. Then post as if you do. You have as much chance of winning lottery and getting struck by lightning

... on the same day as you have of Trump, Pence, and Ryan exiting so simultaneously that not one of them can appoint a new VP.

Not going to happen that way. Impeachment takes lots of time, and resignations would be staggered. After all, they all want pardons.

[maddiemom]

100. Bernardo is all hung up on all of them going simultaneuosly. We get it.

But all sorts of things could happen...and none of them can just NAME the successor of their choice...it's not that simple. (again, check the Gerald Ford appointment. Nixon didn't just say "you're IT!&quot If one of them, like Ryan, doesn't want the job, he can't just name someone else. If Hatch doesn't want it, he can't just say, "I pick Ted Cruz." If, for whatever reason, Hatch didn't take it, we're down to the Cabinet.

[JDC]

22. Delicious

[randr]

23. Russian money is going to be found deep in the Republican hierarchy

I gonna bet the lsos taught them all how to launder money and they became addicted.

[ananda]

24. Pleeze make it so ..

.. but then, Paul Ryan?

[Bernardo de La Paz]

30. No. Doesn't work like that.

Ryan only gets raised to President if tRump (Republican) and Pence (Republican) exit at the same time or before appointing a new VP.

Read up on it.

[leftstreet]

37. I shudder to think who Pence would appoint VP

I could actually see it being Condi Rice

[vkkv]

25. K&R Awesome.

[spanone]

26. don't upset mother....

[sandensea]

55. Anthony Perkins would have been very good as Mike Pence.

(with apologies to the late, great actor):

[lindysalsagal]

93. Seriously? Who takes this ridiculous fool seriously????

[sandensea]

94. Certainly not yours truly.

It was just my way of comparing Pence to Norman Bates, whom this sinister vice president has always reminded me of.

[wryter2000]

27. Please

President Pence is no solution.

[Bernardo de La Paz]

28. Pence KNEW. A Democrat in Congress mailed a Registered Letter to him at the Transition. Accepted. nt

[sandensea]

56. The guy has obstruction of justice written all over him.

Question is: will Congress impeach him too?

[BlueJac]

29. Looks good on Mike!

[Major Nikon]

34. Hard to prove what someone did or didn't know

Hopefully there's a paper trail, because otherwise his incompetence will be his best defense.

[red dog 1]

39. Oh please God let it be true

If Pence goes down with Trump that would be GREAT!!!

[Jopin Klobe]

41. Oh, my, my ... well, it appears ...

... that Christmas, Hanukkah, Kwanzaa and "God, who?" celebrations are just around the corner! ...

[Raven123]

42. Pence will plead ignorance.

He will go back to the line about Flynn's security clearance being renewed by Obama, blah, blah, blah. Never mind his own responsibility. Pence can't make difficult decisions in general and there was no way he would deny one of Trump's favorite people a spot in the West Wing. He was grateful for Trump rescuing him from a failing term as governor of Indiana.

[L. Coyote]

43. "Flynn lied to Pence" never rang true -- more holes than a klan hood.

Link to tweet

[calimary]

44. Oh Sweet Almighty God in Heaven, PLEEEEEEEEEEEEASE Make It So!!!!

Mr. "This is the first time I've heard about it" - HAH!

He's either the biggest liar after his lord and master, trump - OR he's a spectacularly shitty manager. He WAS in charge of the transition team immediately after Chris Christie got the heave-ho - which was very early in the transition period. My friend who voted for trump because she believes in Mike Pence hurried to remind me that Chris Christie was in charge there! I had to remind her, in turn, that Jared got rid of him right away, and Pence moved in immediately. NOBODY can convince me Pence didn't know everything that was going on. He's Mr. Christian Sharia Law. God I hope he gets nailed, too.

[msdogi]

48. Sure Mueller understands how many of us are waiting

and patience is hard to find for me. Keep seeing a move to complete fascism, so many repugs are salivating at getting rid of all the democratic social programs. I hold out hope that somehow the crimes will be revealed

[Hekate]

49. Popcorn, anyone?

[sandensea]

54. Make mine air-popped!

Microwave popcorn tastes like vinyl smells.

[NBachers]

51. "What did Pence know, and when did he know it?"

[Bernardo de La Paz]

89. Pence knew about Flynn in the Transition (reg. Democrat's letter at least) and lied about it. . nt

[Raster]

52. Happy Dance!!!

[snacker]

58. Yes!

[Wash. state Desk Jet]

64. Oh yes, and it's going to keep getting better ,the trickle downs as it enters public domain.

Beyond belief actually .

[cstanleytech]

67. Given everything thats been going on I wouldnt be surprised if this also

extended into the Repugnant leadership in Congress as well.

[Achilleaze]

68. Pence is another republican TreasonWeasel

who lies routinely, and still claims to be "christian"

Do not be deceived.

[Persondem]

73. Oh, be still my beating heart

President Pelosi, anyone?

[malaise]

74. Please please please

Lock them all up!

[bucolic_frolic]

78. Mueller is going wherever the evidence may lead

misleading title

[Nevernose]

90. I don't understand how this is obstruction of justice

Did Pence lie to investigators? Did he interfere with any investigation?

Because simply knowing that Flynn was suspected of having committed a crime and hiring him anyway would seem to be bad politically, but not illegal. The Indiana Bar could censure him or yank his license, I guess.

What am I missing? And could Mueller be looking at Pence for something else?

[Sunlei]

98. they brought in Pence very late,tried to keep him out of the loop. That didn't work did it Repubs?

in for a penny, in for a pound VP Pence. The first time you caught them in that huge lie, you should have SPOKE UP.

[Ford_Prefect]

105. Seems to me the real question is who will be substituted for VP, and who will he then tap for his VP

once Pence and thenTrump resign. That's how its going down.

I am not talking about post impeachment constitutional succession but rather replacement through appointed VP as was done with Ford and Rockefeller. Impeachment is not happening in this Congress but resignation opens many doors and allows a different face and voice to carry the GOP flag forward. Ryan ain't happening either for very obvious reasons. So it will have to be either a current GOP senator, or one recently "retired", or perhaps a Governor?

[sandensea]

107. In 1974, we got Ford and Rockefeller.

In 2018, we may end up with Eddie Munster and Wacky Jackie.

Of course, it wouldn't be the only thing that's gone downhill since then...

[AntiFascist]

106. Hope so. n/t

[FailureToCommunicate]

108. K & R

[DDySiegs]

113. What Happens When Office of VP is Vacant

Twenty Fifth Amendment says (in part):

Whenever there is a vacancy in the office of the Vice President, the President shall nominate a Vice President who shall take office upon confirmation by a majority vote of both Houses of Congress.

If Pence leaves first, does anyone think that Trump and current Congress can pull this off easily?

[sandensea]

115. In '74 we got Ford and Rockefeller.

The way things are going, in 2018 we'll get Eddie Munster and Fat Boy Farenthold.

[Eyeball_Kid]

116. Pence was instrumental in giving away state secrets to a foreign agent.

That's the bottom line. Flynn was a paid foreign agent WHILE Pence gave him a security clearance. Flynn had access to everything. And Flynn was one of the people who was coordinating an international effort to dismantle the democratic institutions of the US and western Europe, under the command of Putin. And Pence let him do it.

[sandensea]

117. Somewhere in the Caymans, I suspect,

is an account with his name on it - and someone's been Putin' money in it.