HomeLatest ThreadsGreatest ThreadsForums & GroupsMy SubscriptionsMy Posts
DU Home » Latest Threads » Forums & Groups » Main » General Discussion (Forum) » When will two murder char...

Thu Aug 17, 2017, 07:26 PM

When will two murder charges, or manslaughter, for the Helicopter police be charged

against the nazis or the driver?

They were responding to a situation created by a crime in progress, these type of charges in this situation have been done before, so when?

11 replies, 2887 views

Reply to this thread

Back to top Alert abuse

Always highlight: 10 newest replies | Replies posted after I mark a forum
Replies to this discussion thread

Response to Eliot Rosewater (Original post)

Thu Aug 17, 2017, 07:28 PM

1. So glad you mentioned this.

I have seen zero news as to the reason for the crash.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to Eliot Rosewater (Original post)

Thu Aug 17, 2017, 07:28 PM

2. I would guess they are going over the helicopter to see what brought it down.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to shraby (Reply #2)

Thu Aug 17, 2017, 07:30 PM

3. Doesnt matter, even if it was mechanical malfunction. The legal theory

is they are not in that heli if not for the crime and the results can be charged.

I know for sure CIVILLY that will happen, the victims will sue the city and recover hugely, thank you very much, but I think you can do this on a criminal basis also, but maybe one of our attorneys can chime in.

City will be sued, good or bad, for not creating a safe place for the protesters to protest, knowing full well this could happen.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to Eliot Rosewater (Reply #3)

Thu Aug 17, 2017, 07:45 PM

7. You are confusing criminal and civil liability - two very different things.

The mere fact that they had been monitoring the situation when the helicopter crashed isn't enough for criminal liability because the but-for test (proximate cause) applies only in civil cases. If the helicopter crashed because of a mechanical malfunction, any lawsuit would have to be against the mechanic who made a faulty repair or failed to discover a defect, or against the manufacturer of a defective part. The officers' families can't sue the state (their employer) because the sole remedy for the negligence of an employer is workers' compensation.

There is also the issue of governmental immunity. The nuances will depend on the laws and court precedents of the state, but in general, government entities are not liable for harm arising from discretionary acts - that is, decisions made by the government based on policy determinations. For example: If a city council decides not to put up a stoplight at a busy intersection because it's too expensive, the city can't be sued for that decision by someone who is injured because there was no stoplight. However, the city could be sued if they put up a stoplight and didn't maintain it adequately and someone was injured because it didn't work - that's what's called a ministerial act.

So, if a discretionary decision had been made that the officers should patrol the area, the city/state would be immune from suit.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to Eliot Rosewater (Reply #3)

Thu Aug 17, 2017, 07:46 PM

9. They were helicopter police - their job was flying above areas to observe.

It's going to be impossible to make a case that the Nazis fucks are to blame simply because piloting a helicopter was normal work for these two men.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to Eliot Rosewater (Original post)

Thu Aug 17, 2017, 07:36 PM

4. You can't base a murder charge on an accident like that

because specific intent (mens rea) is required - meaning that somebody would have committed a criminal act with the intent that the helicopter would crash. The troopers had been patrolling the area from the air and apparently the helicopter had a mechanical malfunction (the NTSB is investigating), but that wouldn't give rise to criminal charges any more than in a situation where a squad car on its way to a crime scene had a brake failure resulting in an accident, or a police officer on his way to arrest a suspect fell down some stairs. And you'd have to identify a particular person or several people who did something with the intent to cause the helicopter crash and to prove that beyond a reasonable doubt. Even involuntary manslaughter wouldn't be provable under these facts.

In any event, although the helicopter had been monitoring the scene it had just left the area and had begun to fly to another assignment.

Unless there's evidence that someone shot the helicopter down, there's no basis for criminal charges.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to The Velveteen Ocelot (Reply #4)

Thu Aug 17, 2017, 07:37 PM

5. OK, if you are certain of this, fine. I know there is a basis civilly.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to Eliot Rosewater (Reply #5)

Thu Aug 17, 2017, 07:46 PM

10. See above. Civil liability would be available only as to whoever

proximately caused the crash - a mechanic or a part manufacturer.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to Eliot Rosewater (Original post)

Thu Aug 17, 2017, 07:43 PM

6. There is no legal basis for charges - this isn't felony murder.

The police were doing surveillance of the city, which is a not uncommon law enforcement tactic. Assuming a mechanical failure, Their death was not a direct result of an unlawful act by anyone protesting.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to Eliot Rosewater (Original post)

Thu Aug 17, 2017, 07:45 PM

8. Whoa. That's a real s-t-r-e-t-c-h.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to Eliot Rosewater (Original post)

Thu Aug 17, 2017, 08:12 PM

11. Imagine if this happened while policing crowd control at a BLM protest

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink

Reply to this thread