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Thu Aug 3, 2017, 09:58 PM

A Secret Team

I thought it might be interesting to say a few words about the news that Mr. Mueller is running a federal grand jury that is looking into the Trump-Russian scandal, including a focus on administration attempts to obstruct justice. Although I am bone-tired, as well as sore from falling backwards onto a downed tree on my lawn last night, I am hoping this attempt is coherent. Or semi-coherent, as the case may be. Please excuse any confusing statements or errors in thinking, for I am old and feeble.

Before addressing the federal grand jury directly, I'd like to suggest forum members read a 1973 book, titled “The Secret Team,” by Fletcher Prouty. At the time, Col. Prouty's book detailed some of the history of the intelligence community's destabilizing and overthrowing foreign governments. At the time, of course, it was of special interest to those who were following the series of crimes known collectively as the Watergate scandal.

However, before the 1974 events that “resolved” Watergate, the book literally disappeared. Copies were even removed from the shelves of public libraries across the country. Luckily, it was re-published in 2011. It is definitely worth reading today.

The “secret team” is those who carry out specific operations for what some call the “shadow government,” or the “machine.” And that's made up of a variety of individuals who are connected to large corporations (including, of course, the military-industrial complex), intelligence agencies, and also found within major universities and the news media.

While the tactics the secret team used in under-developed countries in the 1950s and '60s are somewhat different in appearance to those used in more modern times, they share many common threads. Obviously, advances in technology have also created new opportunities to destabilize a country. Indeed, one of the two primary goals of the Russians who aided the Trump campaign was to stir the pot in the US, to destabilize our constitutional democracy.

Note: I do have some friends and associates who ask me if it is not hypocritical to be outraged by Russia doing to the US what the US has done in other countries? Or who ask if the DNC and campaign documents hacked and released were not true? My answer is simply that I believe in the concepts defined by The Declaration of Independence and the Constitution – especially the Bill of Right – and believe they are worth protecting. The Founding Fathers, imperfect as they were, expressed valid concerns about the potential for foreign influence in our system of government.

I'm also pretty keen on that Statue of Liberty that has been discussed in the past 36 hours. My matertnal grandfather helped quarry the stone it sits upon. I love that wonderful poem – which Jesse Jackson quoted at a Democratic National Convention years ago. These things have meaning to me. They illustrate the Power of Ideas.

Now, before addressing the history of the Magna Carta – an associate employed in an east coast law office that is currently opposing the Trump administration recommended a good book on it yesterday, while we were discussing “current events” – let's consider one more tactic of destabilization of “civilized” nations. The idea is to place one or more reliable people in an office that will try to facilitate a bloodless transfer of power shortly before a crisis reaches its climax stage. That person (or persons) are someone the targeted leader tends to trust, at least initially.

If, for example, we were looking at a new chief of staff for a leader, we might expect him to assure someone at risk – say, an attorney general – that he is not going to be fired, and should not resign. This would not be because of any respect for that person, who we might refer to as “Sessions” for this discussion. It's because that chief of staff – let's call him “John Kelly” – is insuring the on-going operation is not derailed by a paranoid president.

A federal investigator-prosecutor might also take steps to make such attempts to derail her/his on-going investigation, by impaneling a federal grand jury. To add a little context, a number of elected representatives in both houses of Congress have discussed creating a legal challenge if Trump attempts to have Mr. Mueller fired. Such an attempt is certainly not beyond Trump. It could create a constitutional crisis that might well need to be settled in the courts.

One of the institutions most respected within the federal legal community is that of the federal grand jury. This is one of the stones that serves as a foundation for our legal system. It is described in Amendment 5. And, of course, it is a concept that dates back to the Magna Carta.

Grand juries consider evidence in serious crimes. They do not look into misdemeanors or violations. Federal grand juries, for example, tend to investigate matters involving organized crime – including those involving government corruption.

One of the easier charges to consider in the Trump-Russian scandal would be any administration attempt to obstruct justice. A federal judge picks the jury (no one “applies” for a seat on the jury). The prosecutor explains the particulars of what is being looked into to the jurors, then calls witnesses. First, she/he will question a witness, then the head juror has the option, then the rest of the jury can. A witness can refuse to answer, based upon the Fifth, but a grand jury can also compel testimony by granting immunity to prosecution. However, a person representing a group (say, a bank) can not refuse to testify or produce documents requested by the grand jury.

A number of legal experts are correctly reporting on television this evening that a federal grand jury does not always return an indictment. While true, this is extremely rare. And it definitely is not going to be the case here.

On the issue of the Trump associates coordinating with the Russians, it seems likely that Mr. Mueller has more than enough to present on both Manafort and Flynn already. The only issue there is which one has enough information of value to be granted a deal to implicate someone higher up. Keep in mind that both are notorious liars, and might not be a compelling witness without other sources (individuals or documents).

Perhaps most encouraging is that the grand jury is investigating the June, 2016 meeting with Russians that involved Don, Jr., Kushner, and Manafort. I can say that the grand jury is not interested in adopting the administration's cover story. However, I can say with confidence that they are mighty interested in the documents that the Russian attorney brought to the meeting. And to document the other communications and meetings that took place after that initial get-together.

We are living in historic times.

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Arrow 79 replies Author Time Post
Reply A Secret Team (Original post)
H2O Man Aug 3 OP
CaliforniaPeggy Aug 3 #1
H2O Man Aug 3 #2
coeur_de_lion Aug 4 #43
H2O Man Aug 4 #46
coeur_de_lion Aug 4 #47
H2O Man Aug 4 #49
coeur_de_lion Aug 4 #54
apkhgp Aug 3 #3
H2O Man Aug 3 #8
apkhgp Aug 3 #16
malaise Aug 3 #4
H2O Man Aug 3 #9
malaise Aug 3 #14
AJT Aug 3 #5
H2O Man Aug 3 #10
AJT Aug 3 #17
H2O Man Aug 3 #20
TrogL Aug 3 #27
H2O Man Aug 4 #38
spanone Aug 3 #6
H2O Man Aug 3 #11
Dawson Leery Aug 3 #7
H2O Man Aug 3 #12
Me. Aug 3 #13
H2O Man Aug 3 #15
Me. Aug 3 #19
canetoad Aug 3 #18
H2O Man Aug 3 #21
canetoad Aug 3 #24
H2O Man Aug 3 #25
Mme. Defarge Aug 4 #52
Mme. Defarge Aug 4 #51
Ilsa Aug 3 #22
H2O Man Aug 3 #23
klook Aug 3 #26
H2O Man Aug 3 #28
H2O Man Aug 3 #29
lutherj Aug 3 #30
H2O Man Aug 4 #33
burrowowl Aug 4 #31
H2O Man Aug 4 #34
burrowowl Aug 4 #63
oxbow Aug 4 #32
H2O Man Aug 4 #36
calimary Aug 4 #35
H2O Man Aug 4 #37
calimary Aug 5 #67
BarbD Aug 4 #39
H2O Man Aug 4 #40
lostnfound Aug 4 #41
H2O Man Aug 4 #42
Deb Aug 4 #44
H2O Man Aug 4 #48
coeur_de_lion Aug 4 #45
H2O Man Aug 4 #50
Me. Aug 4 #53
coeur_de_lion Aug 4 #55
H2O Man Aug 4 #56
coeur_de_lion Aug 4 #57
lunatica Aug 4 #58
H2O Man Aug 5 #68
red dog 1 Aug 4 #59
H2O Man Aug 5 #69
suffragette Aug 4 #60
H2O Man Aug 5 #70
suffragette Aug 5 #76
coeur_de_lion Aug 4 #61
H2O Man Aug 5 #71
llmart Aug 4 #62
H2O Man Aug 5 #72
coeur_de_lion Aug 5 #77
PWPippinesq Aug 5 #64
H2O Man Aug 5 #73
ms liberty Aug 5 #65
H2O Man Aug 5 #74
Horse with no Name Aug 5 #66
H2O Man Aug 5 #75
Horse with no Name Aug 5 #78
H2O Man Aug 5 #79

Response to H2O Man (Original post)

Thu Aug 3, 2017, 10:08 PM

1. You might be old, my dear H20 Man, but you are certainly not feeble.

This post is like all your posts: clear, lucid, organized and most of all, interesting. I hope you will soon feel much better after your fall.

We do indeed live in interesting, even historic times. I just hope that our democracy comes through without any permanent damage.

K&R for your wonderful post!

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Response to CaliforniaPeggy (Reply #1)

Thu Aug 3, 2017, 10:09 PM

2. You are kind.

My youngest daughter insisted that I do nothing but rest today.

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Response to H2O Man (Reply #2)

Fri Aug 4, 2017, 12:33 PM

43. Your youngest daughter is very wise

and you can tell her I said so.

Please rest as she suggested.

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Response to coeur_de_lion (Reply #43)

Fri Aug 4, 2017, 01:38 PM

46. I will,

when she gets home. She's at work now, then heading north for a triathlon tomorrow. I had planned to go watch her compete, but she grounded me!

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Response to H2O Man (Reply #46)

Fri Aug 4, 2017, 01:41 PM

47. Good

Not that I want to see you out of commission but if she says rest she knows what is best for you.

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Response to coeur_de_lion (Reply #47)

Fri Aug 4, 2017, 01:45 PM

49. Being home

with no automobile increases the risks that you will be subjected to more of my OPs here. Bet you didn't think of that! I expect Trump to act out this weekend. (Luckily, my daughter got me groceries and pet supplies before heading out. I'm lucky to have four wonderful kids!)

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Response to H2O Man (Reply #49)

Fri Aug 4, 2017, 03:01 PM

54. you are indeed

lucky! Great kids all 4 who adore their father.

I'm looking forward to more of your OP!

And also looking forward to the update when you tell me you are on the mend.

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Response to H2O Man (Original post)

Thu Aug 3, 2017, 10:09 PM

3. Historic Times

I for one found your detailed explanation of the Grand Jury, and the look back at key points in our nation's history informative.

Kellyanne Conway was heard on a video saying that she could not see this Russia / 45 jr thing developing into any kind of Watergate or even a watermelon.


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Response to apkhgp (Reply #3)

Thu Aug 3, 2017, 10:16 PM

8. Thank you!

I appreciate that.

I had wanted to include that Trump's attorney Cobb's statement is absolutely meaningless. There is no requirement (or reason, for that matter), to inform Trump or his legal team if he is being investigated by the federal grand jury. I imagine that Cobb recognizes he is representing a jackass.

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Response to H2O Man (Reply #8)

Thu Aug 3, 2017, 10:36 PM

16. Representation

In this case the words client and jackass have the same definition. Blowhard that talks a lot but says nothing.

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Response to H2O Man (Original post)

Thu Aug 3, 2017, 10:11 PM

4. I just love that this made the news before the Con's holiday

Historic times for real.

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Response to malaise (Reply #4)

Thu Aug 3, 2017, 10:18 PM

9. Ha!

I'll bet the mood at the White House will be uncomfortable tomorrow!

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Response to H2O Man (Reply #9)

Thu Aug 3, 2017, 10:31 PM

14. You Betcha

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Response to H2O Man (Original post)

Thu Aug 3, 2017, 10:13 PM

5. As for the leaked Clinton emails, what was so damning and terrible in them?

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Response to AJT (Reply #5)

Thu Aug 3, 2017, 10:18 PM

10. I don't think

that any Clinton e-mails were leaked.

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Response to H2O Man (Reply #10)

Thu Aug 3, 2017, 10:51 PM

17. Right, it was the DNC emails that were hacked. There

was nothing particularly damning in them.

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Response to AJT (Reply #17)

Thu Aug 3, 2017, 10:55 PM

20. That they were

hacked (stolen) by a foreign nation seeking to undermine the election damns them.

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Response to AJT (Reply #5)

Thu Aug 3, 2017, 11:27 PM

27. There's no there there

It's been awhile so it was something like Clinton's server was used to transmit and store emails that were later made confidential but somehow or other Clinton was supposed to predict they were confidential and then when she wanted to repurpose the server she deleted the emails.

Or something like that. The smoking gun is so convoluted that I'm not sure anybody understands it and I used to do this for a living.

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Response to TrogL (Reply #27)

Fri Aug 4, 2017, 10:47 AM

38. I think the

Russian hacking and coordinating with the Trump campaign is the important issue. I note the repulsive piglet Kelly Ann Conway tries to divert the proper focus, by insisting that there is no evidence that this impacted the election results. While it is tempting to respond by saying that the operation was obviously conducted to help Trump by hurting Clinton, that is not the most important point. The fact that they attempted to do so is what matters the most.

If a bank robber fails to get away with a million dollars, he doesn't escape legal consequences. These thieves attempted to rob US citizens of something far more valuable than money. They need to be held accountable.

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Response to H2O Man (Original post)

Thu Aug 3, 2017, 10:15 PM

6. K&R...

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Response to spanone (Reply #6)

Thu Aug 3, 2017, 10:19 PM

11. Thank you!

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Response to H2O Man (Original post)

Thu Aug 3, 2017, 10:15 PM

7. kick

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Response to Dawson Leery (Reply #7)

Thu Aug 3, 2017, 10:19 PM

12. Thanks!

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Response to H2O Man (Original post)

Thu Aug 3, 2017, 10:28 PM

13. Not Buying It

I've heard that old and feeble business before and am still waiting for it to affect your capacity for thinking and your ability to write.

So you're saying they have the docs the Russian lawyer brought to the meeting? Anyone, besides Mueller, know what's in the docs.

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Response to Me. (Reply #13)

Thu Aug 3, 2017, 10:31 PM

15. I do not know

if they have accessed those documents, but can say they are of extreme interest.

It's possible that Manafort or Kushner accepted them.

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Response to H2O Man (Reply #15)

Thu Aug 3, 2017, 10:53 PM

19. He Should Stop Going To Jared

It was he who suggested 45 call the prez of Mexico. It was he who told him to fire Comey and hire Scarramucci and so on and so forth. So what does that say about his possible judgment behind the scenes regarding this Russia matter?

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Response to H2O Man (Original post)

Thu Aug 3, 2017, 10:51 PM

18. Excellent post

Can you expand on this sentence?

" The idea is to place one or more reliable people in an office that will try to facilitate a bloodless transfer of power shortly before a crisis reaches its climax stage. That person (or persons) are someone the targeted leader tends to trust, at least initially."

Am I reading this correctly; Kelly may be working against the USA?

Thanks for an great read!

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Response to canetoad (Reply #18)

Thu Aug 3, 2017, 10:58 PM

21. Thanks.

What I mean is that General Kelly believes in and is loyal to the nation, not to Trump. This doesn't mean I agree with him on many issues. But I respect him as an honorable man. And there aren't many around Trump.

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Response to H2O Man (Reply #21)

Thu Aug 3, 2017, 11:02 PM

24. Thank you

Yes, I agree that Kelly has the country's best interest at heart.

On a side-note, I've long suspected that Trump doesn't really have the nuclear codes.

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Response to canetoad (Reply #24)

Thu Aug 3, 2017, 11:05 PM

25. The codes ......

I do not think anyone in control of them is a Curtis LeMay. They would not allow him to initiate a nuclear strike.

I'm glad that Kelly accepted the position. He definitely turned the offer down for several weeks. He accepted it after Trump was attacking Sessions.

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Response to H2O Man (Reply #21)

Fri Aug 4, 2017, 02:33 PM

52. Thanks for the clarification,

which served to remove a knot in my stomach.

Meanwhile, do you take good care. Last spring I fell backwards down several basement stairs (doing something really stupid, I'll never make that mistake again). Fortunately I did not crack my skull, nor break anything, but probably got whiplash by trying to prevent my head from hitting the concrete floor. Anyway, I was very sore for several weeks, and it was a real breakthrough when I was able to bend ever so slightly over the bathroom sink to brush my teeth. Now it's as though it never happened. I am always amazed at the body's capacity to heal itself.

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Response to canetoad (Reply #18)

Fri Aug 4, 2017, 02:21 PM

51. Merci!

I had the same question.

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Response to H2O Man (Original post)

Thu Aug 3, 2017, 10:58 PM

22. Is this like John Perkins' Confessions of an Economic Hit Man?

He has a few books out about how he helped financially destabilized other countries.

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Response to Ilsa (Reply #22)

Thu Aug 3, 2017, 10:59 PM

23. Exactly.

You nailed it! (His books are worth reading!)

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Response to H2O Man (Original post)

Thu Aug 3, 2017, 11:21 PM

26. Recommended.

Thanks for the good info, especially the tip re: the Prouty book.

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Response to klook (Reply #26)

Thu Aug 3, 2017, 11:29 PM

28. Thank you.

It is a great read!

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Response to H2O Man (Original post)

Thu Aug 3, 2017, 11:30 PM

29. Joy Reid interviewing

Paul Butler: it doesn't get any better!

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Response to H2O Man (Original post)

Thu Aug 3, 2017, 11:42 PM

30. I would like to respectfully offer that it is not hypocritical to to be outraged by foreign

intervention in our elections if we have been equally outraged by US intervention in foreign elections, or indeed the US overthrow of legitimate foreign states. This could be, for the American people, a teachable moment.

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Response to lutherj (Reply #30)

Fri Aug 4, 2017, 10:06 AM

33. Right.

Perfect answer. I like that a lot. Thank you.

I've found the reports that Trump is whining that US policy in Afghanistan has not resulted in US corporations controlling the Afghanistan mineral resources. This highlights the corporate view of "bringing democracy" to foreign lands.

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Response to H2O Man (Original post)

Fri Aug 4, 2017, 01:09 AM

31. K&R!!!!!!

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Response to burrowowl (Reply #31)

Fri Aug 4, 2017, 10:07 AM

34. Thank you, burrowowl!

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Response to H2O Man (Reply #34)

Fri Aug 4, 2017, 09:39 PM

63. Thank you for your essays!

I guess you are an old fart like me, I'm 70, got shot at during Vietnam War protests, camera lens disjointed by a police baton and my old creaky body has to go out and protest some more.

Cheers! Compadre!

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Response to H2O Man (Original post)

Fri Aug 4, 2017, 02:20 AM

32. I've been coming to DU over a decade...

..and I feel like you're only getting better with time, H2O Man! Thank you for your knowledge and lucidity...each of us doing our part is how we go about changing the world...

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Response to oxbow (Reply #32)

Fri Aug 4, 2017, 10:30 AM

36. Well, thank you!

I had hesitated to try to write anything yesterday evening .....I had posted an OP in the morning about the advantages available to Democrats if we put our minor differences behind us, and focus on creating a 50 state united front, which was largely ignored by forum members .....and so I figured that I'd wait a day or two before posting again. But the federal grand jury news seemed too important to wait.

Being old and easily confused, I had thought that I had mentioned this grand jury last week. But a quick check of my OPs showed me that I had not. So I thought I should lay out a few important points about it. I was pleased to see that the experts on CNN and MSNBC's nighttime coverage made several of the same points.

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Response to H2O Man (Original post)

Fri Aug 4, 2017, 10:17 AM

35. As usual, a most intriguing read, H2O Man!

Most thought-provoking, as well as illuminating.

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Response to calimary (Reply #35)

Fri Aug 4, 2017, 10:41 AM

37. Thanks, calimary!

I expect that Trump will act out this weekend. I suspect that he already resents the extent of John Kelly's influence (even though his lawyers are insisting he allow Kelly to take the lead).

Is this not the craziest time we have experienced?

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Response to H2O Man (Reply #37)

Sat Aug 5, 2017, 10:19 AM

67. Sheesh, that's the understatement of the year.

YES this is the craziest time we have experienced! At least from my perspective, as an Anglo woman in my 60s.

I suspect trump will always have a "let trump be trump" mentality. He's 71. He's one old dog who probably can't be taught new tricks, particularly since he can certainly claim that his "let trump be trump" behavior got him where he is. I imagine the prevailing viewpoint is and probably will always be - "why should I change now? I'm the president and you're not."

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Response to H2O Man (Original post)

Fri Aug 4, 2017, 11:03 AM

39. Exceptionally provocative and informative post.

I'm fairly new to DU but very impressed with the intelligence of the discussions. It is what is helping me survive these interesting and historic times.

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Response to BarbD (Reply #39)

Fri Aug 4, 2017, 11:07 AM

40. Thanks, BarbD!

I'm glad you enjoyed the OP. And it's a pleasure to meet you! DU is a good place.

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Response to H2O Man (Original post)

Fri Aug 4, 2017, 11:31 AM

41. Great piece but one sentence is unclear

"A federal investigator-prosecutor might also take steps to make such attempts to derail her/his on-going investigation, by impaneling a federal grand jury. "

I think you mean "might take steps to make such attempts....futile"?
Or "might take steps to block such attempts.."

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Response to lostnfound (Reply #41)

Fri Aug 4, 2017, 11:38 AM

42. Proof positive!

You are correct .....and you have provided a perfect response to Me's post #13, where she cruelly argued that I am not an old, easily confused, fool! (grin)

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Response to H2O Man (Original post)

Fri Aug 4, 2017, 12:35 PM

44. Hope you are feeling well today

Thanks for adding credence to our kitchen table crowd's hopeful gut instincts about the WH situation. We departed reassuring ourselves that indeed George Washington had also been a General.

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Response to Deb (Reply #44)

Fri Aug 4, 2017, 01:42 PM

48. Thank you, Deb!

I'm feeling better today, though my youngest is still insisting that I take it easy until at least next week.

It seems Trump dislikes -- and is extremely paranoid -- of General McMaster. I suspect that he will begin to resent General Kelly this weekend. I could be wrong, of course, but I suspect it will be an interesting weekend!

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Response to H2O Man (Original post)

Fri Aug 4, 2017, 12:45 PM

45. A grand jury was also impaneled

for Plame -- twice.

And nothing much came of it. Or at least it did not have the outcome we all wished for.

What do you think the chances are that the same will happen this time?

I know the possible charges are much more serious but I wonder if the people we most suspect of wrong doing will manage to slide out from under the worst of the charges.

Not being a cynic just afraid to get my hopes up here.

And may I say, that your essay was more informative and easy to understand than anything else I've read to date on this topic, and I feel like I have read everything out there.

I'm very interested in reading the book you mentioned by Prouty.

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Response to coeur_de_lion (Reply #45)

Fri Aug 4, 2017, 02:02 PM

50. Looking back,

Patrick actually did accomplish a lot. He convicted Scooter Libby on numerous, serious felonies. While we hoped he'd charge Cheney, he did recommend that Congress go forward, which should have resulted in impeachment. Still, his actions reduced Cheney's power from being in charge of the White House and administration, to becoming an embarrassment to the republican party. Even George W. Bush ignored Cheney's begging him to pardon Libby. I think Fitzgerald helped elect President Obama, and also put many of the neoconservatives in both parties in check.

It is certain that Manafort and Flynn will face serious criminal charges. Flynn's attorney has publicly asked for a deal, and Manafort's is busy doing the same behind the scenes. Because they are both notorious liars, Mr. Mueller would need solid evidence to support their claims, before even considering making a deal with either one. That proof would be found in documents ....and, by no coincidence, the federal grand jury has almost limitless access to documents.

As an individual, I like Fitzgerald more than either Comey or Mueller. But I think that both Comey and Mueller are more willing to challenge the White House. And when Mueller puts Comey on the stand, to be followed by at least ten high-ranking FBI and Justice Department officials, I am fully confident they are going after someone up the chain. And there was but one person higher than Flynn.

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Response to H2O Man (Reply #50)

Fri Aug 4, 2017, 02:52 PM

53. Excellent Analysis

And, looking at the length of this thread, I rest my case about your so called inabilities.

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Response to H2O Man (Reply #50)

Fri Aug 4, 2017, 03:03 PM

55. one person higher than Flynn

meaning Trump I hope? Not sure who you mean but this gives me hope.

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Response to coeur_de_lion (Reply #55)

Fri Aug 4, 2017, 03:17 PM

56. Yes.

He alone was higher than Flynn.

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Response to H2O Man (Reply #56)

Fri Aug 4, 2017, 03:22 PM

57. didn't know

just where he stood in the hierarchy. Very interesting.

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Response to H2O Man (Original post)

Fri Aug 4, 2017, 05:22 PM

58. Take care of yourself

Write all you want while you recover! You keep my IQ up there!

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Response to lunatica (Reply #58)

Sat Aug 5, 2017, 11:13 AM

68. Thanks!

My daughter has my vehicle for the weekend, so I'll be passing time on DU. We had a heck of a storm last night -- lost electric, phone, and internet for about ten hours. So I'll make up for "lost time" this morning as I consume massive quantities of coffee.

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Response to H2O Man (Original post)

Fri Aug 4, 2017, 05:29 PM

59. K&R...Thanks for posting

"The Secret Team: The CIA and It's Allies in Control of the United States and the World" is a book by former Air Force colonel L. Fletcher Prouty (originally published in 1973)
If you Google: "L. Fletcher Prouty on The Secret Team - Part One -You Tube"
you'll get a 4 hour 21 minute documentary about the "Secret Team"
(also referred to as the "Terpil-Wilson Team" of CIA officer Frank Terpil & Edwin Wilson)

Another great book about "The Secret Team" is:
"The Iran-Contra Connection: Secret Teams and Covert Operations in the Reagan Era"
edited by Jonathan Marshall, Peter Dale Scott and Jane Hunter
http://www.whale.to/b/scott_b1.html
(Or Google book title)

Also, if you have the time, you can read the text of a speech given in 1987 by Daniel Sheehan, who was the chief counsel to the Christic Institute in the 1980s, which represented Martha Honey and Tony Avrigan in their lawsuit against 27 Iran-Contra associated defendants, including Theodore Shackley, Oliver North, Gen. Richard Secord, John Singlaub, Robert McFarlane, Frank Carluchi, Thomas Cline, Robert Owen, John Hull, Rafael "Chi Chi" Quintero, Ronald Reagan, George H.W. Bush and many others.
It's a rare speech - very hard to come by -it runs for 1 hour & 20 minutes.
It's an astounding speech!
http://u2r2h.blogspot.com/2007/03/must-hear-nicaragua-nixon-bush-cia-how.html
(If link doesn't work,
Google "MUST HEAR -Nicaragua, Nixon, Bush, CIA - How To Stop Murderers and Criminals)

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Response to red dog 1 (Reply #59)

Sat Aug 5, 2017, 11:14 AM

69. Thanks for this!

Very much appreciated!

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Response to H2O Man (Original post)

Fri Aug 4, 2017, 07:16 PM

60. Hope you are feeling better. Appreciate your cogent analysis.

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Response to suffragette (Reply #60)

Sat Aug 5, 2017, 11:18 AM

70. Thanks!

When I was 18, injuries were better within 24 hours. Now that I'm closer to 118, it takes two or three days. I'm feeling pretty good today.

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Response to H2O Man (Reply #70)

Sat Aug 5, 2017, 01:40 PM

76. Yep, same here, healing takes longer than it used to. Glad you are recovering.

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Response to H2O Man (Original post)

Fri Aug 4, 2017, 08:06 PM

61. 2 grand juries?

I just read that Mueller has one in Washington DC and another in Alexandria VA.

What is the significance (if any) of the 2nd grand jury?

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Response to coeur_de_lion (Reply #61)

Sat Aug 5, 2017, 11:22 AM

71. Right.

The one in VA was taking place when Comey was in office, though another federal prosecutor ran it. That one was looking at Manafort and Flynn. There is speculation (and reason to believe) that it returned sealed indictments, that could be changed if either of those shitheads are lucky enough to strike a deal with Mr. Mueller.

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Response to H2O Man (Original post)

Fri Aug 4, 2017, 09:35 PM

62. Amazing articulate analysis...

I had to read it twice because it was extremely interesting and informative. Please keep on posting.

This is why I come to DU for info. We have some amazing minds on this forum.

P.S. Will this be televised and do I need to stock up on popcorn and wine???

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Response to llmart (Reply #62)

Sat Aug 5, 2017, 11:24 AM

72. Popcorn and wine!

Absolutely.

I expect that there will be a lot of televised coverage.

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Response to llmart (Reply #62)

Sat Aug 5, 2017, 02:15 PM

77. Agreed

We're lucky to have H2O 's great analytical mind as well as many others on DU.

Without them I would have lost my sanity long ago.

Thanks again H for your analysis of this disturbing issue. It is reassuring to have someone to go to and ask my stupid questions. You are always so patient with me!

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Response to H2O Man (Original post)

Sat Aug 5, 2017, 07:58 AM

64. Thank you from another admirer.

Your analysis was a most welcome and interesting read this morning, making my first cup of coffee all the more flavorful. I'm looking forward, as always, to more of your cogent analyses. Be well.

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Response to PWPippinesq (Reply #64)

Sat Aug 5, 2017, 11:25 AM

73. Thank you!

I appreciate your kind words!

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Response to H2O Man (Original post)

Sat Aug 5, 2017, 08:40 AM

65. An excellent post as usual

I hope you're beginning to feel better after your fall, thank goodness you didn't break something! None of us are getting any younger, and that happens when we get old, I know...I fell on the sidewalk at the local park about eight weeks ago, and broke my elbow. Right in front of a bunch of twenty and thirty-something rock climber dudes, getting ready for a day of climbing. The twenty year old girl in my head was just mortified! One minute mr liberty, Aria (my GSD/Belgian Malinois, she turned a year old last weekend) and I were striding along, getting ready for a nice hike up the mountain, the next minute I was watching the sidewalk rush toward my face. I stuck both my arms out on front of me, and hyperextended my left arm when I landed. I think I intentionally tried to land more on my left side to protect my right arm and shoulder - I had rotator cuff surgery on my right shoulder last summer. It was a mistake, since I'm lefthanded; for the first couple of weeks it was almost impossible to do anything, and it made work difficult. I'm as stubborn as a mule though, after all the nice young men helped me up (ma'am are you okay? Me in my head: I'm not a ma'am! Out loud: I'm fine!) I insisted we go on our hike - about two and a half miles, and when we got done I told mr liberty that we needed to take the dog home, get something to drink and go on to the urgent care, cause I've broke my damn arm!
So the moral of this story is getting old kinda sucks, but we might as well laugh about it when we can, because it beats the alternative!
Feel better my friend, and be careful!

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Response to ms liberty (Reply #65)

Sat Aug 5, 2017, 11:29 AM

74. Yikes!

I hope that your elbow is healing well, and not causing too much discomfort. (Since having my back broken in an auto wreck -- not my fault -- I've broken seven bones in three falls. Never happened when I was young! )

Thanks!

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Response to H2O Man (Original post)

Sat Aug 5, 2017, 09:42 AM

66. this is brilliant! I love you waterman!

Will you marry me?

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Response to Horse with no Name (Reply #66)

Sat Aug 5, 2017, 11:30 AM

75. Thanks!

Is this because I got my daughter a second rabbit? Because whenever I've asked you out on a date, you've said no -- after you stopped laughing at me!

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Response to H2O Man (Reply #75)

Sat Aug 5, 2017, 06:16 PM

78. I would never laugh!

But you know I love rabbits...hey...I missed the second one! You are hooked!

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Response to Horse with no Name (Reply #78)

Sat Aug 5, 2017, 06:30 PM

79. There have been

very few years of my life that I haven't raised rabbits. Started when I was 5. My grandfather raised them. I don't know much about all the different types -- I just like them as pets. I'm glad my kids all love rabbits, to.

I had a wild rabbit out near them yesterday.

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