Are we underestimating Trump's intellect?

[True Dough]

I'm perplexed. Every time I hear him speak, I immediately think "Dolt!" His limited lexicon and repetition of words and phrases makes me want to gag, let alone the oppressive message that accompanies it. He just doesn't seem bright at all.

Yet he seized upon slogans ("Drain the swamp" and "Make America Great Again" ) that resonated with enough voters to get him into office.

He effectively uses his Twitter account to create controversy that distracts from his nefarious political agenda.

He has been successfully dismantling the Republican influence within the White House to create his own fiefdom.

And, although he started out with a YUGE loan from his daddy and experienced a few bankruptcies, he managed to build a business empire -- not nearly as successful as he'd have us believe, but the Trump name adorns buildings all over the world.

So, are we not giving Dolt 45 enough credit or is he prospering in spite of himself???

[hlthe2b]

1. He apparently learned a lot of his "messaging" tactics from reading Hitler's speeches

(1st wife, Ivana said he had copies of one or more books on his nightstand reportedly).

[kerry-is-my-prez]

43. Newt Gingrich is the father of political propaganda and he advises Trump.

[GreenEyedLefty]

2. He's smart and savvy in a lot of ways.

Like a crappy, grifty salesman is smart and savvy. People like that know how to exploit the weaker, vulnerable and less intelligent. That's how they make their money. So yeah, it's "smart" but it's also morally and ethically bankrupt.

[WinkyDink]

3. Canny is not the same as intelligent. HE KNOWS NOTHING!!! READ HIS STUPID ADMONISHING TWEETS!

[HipChick]

4. He rents his name...his branding is leased...

People keep spouting his business empire? Most of those are failures...

[Tatiana]

5. He's ultimately a salesman, and he's very good at selling.

In this case, he's selling himself -- very familiar territory. That's all he knows how to do. Bullying and marketing.

Looking forward to the day his sycophants decide they no longer want to buy what he is selling.

[politicat]

6. Don't mistake cunning for intelligence.

It's not difficult to train a pigeon to do fairly complicated tasks, with enough specific conditioning.

Trump is almost entirely reactive. He's said this about himself, though of course he frames it as his strength. He doesn't handle strategy well. Trump has spent his entire life conditioning himself -- but not consciously. He is manipulative, but he's not introspective. He doesn't understand why or how what he does works, but he's very good at pressing buttons when those buttons produce a reward. (He gets pellets of attention, not alfalfa, but it's the same concept.) Think of his thinking like a cargo cult, not a plan, and you're much closer to what's going on in his head.

[moonscape]

32. Excellent take. "He doesn't understand why

or how what he does works .." is really key. It's why he can be such a success and failure at the same time.

[nocalflea]

41. Well put.

"gut instincts"

He shows no intellectual curiosity about anything. His ignorance is astounding. I suspect he has gone through life knowing as little as he possibly can to get by . Probably pisses him off when he actually has to "know" something- to study up. He's all surface. His intellect is as shallow as the rest of him.

[Bradical79]

7. Give me some huge loans and no conscience

and I could build a similiar business empire. How he did it isn't particularly clever, it's just most of us weren't born into such wealth and lack the narcissism needed to consort with mobsters, look at bankrupcy as a positive tool, bribe politicians, or engage in the many other corrupt activities he engages in.

[Hugin]

9. Bingo! n/t

[smirkymonkey]

15. Exactly! He has the cunning of a predator, but it should not be mistaken for

intelligence. He started out with money and has no conscience. It's pretty easy to make a fortune from that combination.

[spooky3]

26. And you can "save" a lot of money when you don't pay

people you hired to do work.

[GeorgeGist]

8. No ...

you're overestimating his supporters' intellect.

[standingtall]

10. this

[uponit7771]

13. +1

[CatMor]

11. You don't have to be smart

to be a con man you just have to be dishonest.
Every campaign usually has a clever slogan.
Trumps "Make America Great Again" was as racist as his underlying message in the campaign. "Make America Great Again" meant, according to him and his followers, it would happen without the black man in office.
If he is such a great business man why won't he release his tax returns to show how much he's worth.
He won the Electoral College but lost the popular vote by millions.
His Tweets are childish at best and are subject to much ridicule. The only good thing from his tweets is Covfefe, leaving the world with endless jokes and laughter.

[uponit7771]

12. No, he's a professional fuck up with billion of Russian money to play with... too tight with Russian

[Adrahil]

14. He's a con man...

He's just smart enough to figure out what the rubes wanna hear.

[Greybnk48]

16. No n/t.

[brush]

17. He's a bully whose gotten ahead by screwing people and having enough money...

to hire lawyers to protect himself from the little guy contractors he didn't pay what he owed them. Anyone can be "successful" if you don't pay for the goods and services you use people for.

His father gave him a million to start off and he screwed that up and his old man had to even bail him out twice after that.

Gimme a break. What other "successful" businessmen have had to file multiple bankruptcies to get out of paying their debts? After the bankruptcies no American banks would touch him so he had to turn to Russia and launder money for the oligarchs to keep his businesses afloat. And those hotels with his name on them, I'm sure you know they aren't his, he just licenses his name. BTW, many buildings have taken his name down because his brand is in the toilet now over his poor performance as president.

As far as the slogans, he studied Mussolini and Hitler, then used their methods to make Muslims, Mexicans and other POCs the "other", equivalent of the Jewish people in Hitler's Germany.

If his intellect was so great he'd have had more success at governing by now.

Hell, he's got a repug House, repug Senate, a 5/4 repug SCOTUS and he still can't get anything done but create discord and chaos where ever he goes. Look at just this past week. The White House is in complete disarray.

Nah, not smart, but cunning and evil in his appeal to the racist deplorables that make up his base.

[spooky3]

27. +1

[xor]

18. I think Trump is nothing more than a dumb bomb.

His idiocy has been weaponized by smart and cunning people like Roger Stone and shady people from other parts of the globe. They saw that he could be used and they are using it. Trump is nothing more than a tool.

[leftstreet]

19. Sociopaths and narcissists know what people want to hear

They're devoted to manipulation and impression-management 24/7

So they're very good at saying what they perceive their targets want to hear

Unfortunately for the ones like Crooked Trump, they also tend to lack impulse control

[SWBTATTReg]

20. many ways to measure intellect

There are many ways to measure intellect, and if you use money to measure it, or the handling of one's self on twitter, etc., this would a very poor method of doing so.

Intellect isn't a word I'd associate w/ tRUMP, nor wisdom, nor any of these types of adjectives. What I would use, is con man.

tRUMP is a con man through and through, and I believe there are lots of people he's scammed/cheated/bulls***ed/sued him in court that could think of lots of adjectives that one can't put here in writing...

I think that pure circumstance at being at the right place in time & place is what enabled the tRUMP effect to happen (recovering from the great recession of '07-08-09), and that's it.

Just as fast as the tRUMP effect happened, the reverse will happen just as fast, when tRUMP will do something really ignorant, that will stand above everything else (hard to imagine, eh?), and the anti-tRUMP movement will finally succeed.

[superpatriotman]

21. How do you estimate the intellect of a pile of rotting garbage?

I mean sure, it's garbage, but how do you quantify it?

No matter what happens we all have garbage juice on us (the lucky ones only the stink)

[True Dough]

22. I guess this is a matter

of acknowledging that the pile of garbage is more astute than previous perceptions. It's not to say that the pile of garbage is the most brilliant smelly heap on the face of the Earth, just that it's so remarkable for the filthy mass to have wormed its way into the presidency and to be able to manipulate the White House in its own slimy way.

Quite astonishing (and alarming).

[superpatriotman]

29. The best garbage. Believe me.

You're gonna have so much garbage juice on you. So much. Believe me.

[tblue37]

23. His political success occurred because wealthy and unscrupulous people

recognized in him an empty vehicle for their plans. They were clever in that way, but he wasn't.

However, their cleverness has hit the brick wall of his stupidity, egoism, and lack of discipline. He is making a mess of their clever plans now.

[A-Schwarzenegger]

24. A monkey could grunt and get 30% approval.

Sorry, monkeys.

[flibbitygiblets]

28. Apparently an additional 8% bonus for flinging his poo.

Splains so much.

[A-Schwarzenegger]

30. Then the monkey fires his own poo

for not fighting back against gravity.

[Towlie]

25. It's like Jeopardy vs. Family Feud.

To win at Jeopardy you have to be intelligent and knowledgeable, but to win at Family Feud you only have to know what the average person thinks and likes.

And the way to get rich isn't necessarily to be smart, you can also get there by being unscrupulous, dishonest, and ruthless.

[Awsi Dooger]

44. Terrific summary

I wish I had thought of it.

I don't know if I would call Trump's target the average person. They are the typical person who is already predisposed to fear and bigotry, even if most of them would deny it or not think of themselves that way.

My aunt is a great example. She is sweet but very simple. Has no clue what either party stands for in general. But she was a registered Democrat who voted twice for Obama. Last spring my aunt announced she was now a registered Republican and enthusiastic Trump supporter. She is still enthused about Trump and refuses to believe any argument against him. Trump won her over by asserting that he would safeguard religious liberties. My aunt always pushes her religion on me. Never fails to happen or to be awkward. I'm not going to shut up. I tell her I'm a probability guy and the existence of God makes no sense. Somehow my aunt takes that to mean that her beliefs are belittled or attacked. She wants everybody to be holding that bible in church every Sunday and nod in unison while reciting some hymn or prayer. Anyone who doesn't participate is evil in her eyes.

So my aunt has essentially been waiting all her life for someone like Donald Trump, someone who would invent a problem and multiply reality by thousands while shouting and gesturing all the way. I guarantee my aunt doesn't know who Robert Mueller is but she feels calmed and protected by Donald Trump. I had never known my aunt to be hateful or bigoted until she told me she doesn't want gay couples kissing in the pew in front of her at church, and she's thrilled Donald Trump will build that wall to keep out murderous Mexicans.

Transfer and amend that as necessary and it attaches to millions of Americans. I know I criticize Rachel Maddow too frequently around here but one of the reasons I do it is that Rachel Maddow is exactly the opposite of Donald Trump. That may seem great but in this case it means that she has no idea what causes people to vote the way they do, or whether to vote at all. If Rachel chased a slogan it would be long and issue oriented and mostly worthless. Notice that her program title doesn't contain a short strong modifier along with her name, unlike every other primetime host on MSNBC. I've always wondered about that. Doesn't strike me as coincidence. Trump in the same spot as opposition leader of the most visible network talk show would absolutely guarantee to have a powerful memorable show title, along with his name, of course.

Donald Trump is going to be hellish to oust in 2020. He'll get there. I don't believe in Happy Adjustments as opposed to big picture logic. Day to day may be outrageous but too many people are inept handicappers and take the conclusions absurdly far, that Trump will either be impeached or resign or switch to independent or be dumped by his party. Sorry, I rely on normalcy. A presidential incumbent will be re-nominated by his party and own massive advantages via that incumbency.

[Kaleva]

31. He's a first class con artist.

[MindPilot]

33. We had this same discussion about W.

Both W and 45 are not very articulate. How many inarticulate smart people do you know?

I see intellect as the ability to synthesize new knowledge from existing information; being able to think in the abstract and create or design something that has never existed before.

I have my doubts if 45 has ever done that, and he certainly hasn't demonstrated that ability recently. He seems to be purely reactive, and in reality has spent his life more or less being an well-financed assembly line worker* who moves money around.

*No disrespect intended to assembly line workers.

[Goonch]

34. DOLT 45

[MindPilot]

36. That's key right there.

Intellect is like sex and combat experience; people who truly have it don't feel compelled to tell everybody about it.

[Vinca]

35. He's a world class huckster, especially when it comes to branding.

He only prospers because he bullies people with his endless lawsuits. He also prospered because banks cut him a break way back when rather than tumbling the house of cards. They figured he was worth more alive than dead. Can you imagine how much more money you might have if you took out a $100,000 mortgage on your house and then informed the bank you were only going to pay back $35,000? Or hired a plumber to install a bathroom and then paid him pennies on the dollar. It also doesn't hurt to have a charity in your name to pay for everything from Boy Scout membership fees to artwork for your properties . . . all with other people's money. If we let him run the country in the way he runs his businesses, it would be a disgrace. I like countries that pay their bills.

[hopeforchange2008]

37. He's the quality of all "as seen on TV" products

The sales pitch is aggressive and effective, but when you get the product, you realize you've shelled out for a piece of shit.

[oasis]

46. +1

Exactamundo

[Warren DeMontague]

38. I'm not sure he even understands object permanence.

He probably talks to the television set and thinks the cable tv people can hear him.

[True Dough]

42. I must admit

I chuckled at the thought.

[ananda]

39. 45's words registered because he's rich and white ..

.. and not Obama!

[Dave Starsky]

40. His "achievements" don't require intellect.

You would be surprised what you can achieve when you a) have absolutely no morals and b) don't give a shit. That doesn't take brains. It just takes gall.

[Spider Jerusalem]

45. Cunning and brilliance are not the same thing (n/t)

[oberliner]

47. He is good at branding

And occasionally intimidating people and surrounding himself with sycophants.

He is also good at not sounding like a politician.

[Motownman78]

48. Actually he didn't get a loan

He inherited an empire of low-income apartment homes from his father (around 14,000 units) located in Brooklyn and Queens. The belief that he is mostly self-made is a lie. I think there was a Newspaper that came out that said if he had just put his inheritance in the S&P 500, he would be worth about $8.8 Billion today instead of maybe the $1.5 Billion today that he is.