A point to keep in mind--EVEN IF Trump could pardon, himself, his aides, and all family members,

[hlthe2b]

he CAN NOT pardon them for STATE charges and we have a very very competent attorney general in NY (Eric Schneiderman) and perhaps in other states, who might well benefit from what Mueller digs up and go after the whole corrupt gang in state courts.

So those feeling that pit in their stomachs that this cabal might get by with all of their corruption, I wouldn't place a bet on that.

[C_U_L8R]

1. And Lawrence pointed out something important

A pardon only covers past crimes committed and is essentially an admission of guilt. But moreso, if you've been pardoned, then you really cannot plead the fifth anymore. So say Jared gets pardoned and subsequently gets called in to testify... he'd be committing new crime if he refuses.

[nikibatts]

43. He can't pardon anyone if he is impeached first. The fate of the nation rests in GOP hands.

[Cosmocat]

47. Let's just not delude ourselves

If Ryan or McConnell head either chamber, 45 is not going to get impeached.

They both, as are most of the key republican leaders in congress, are russia dirty, too.

[elehhhhna]

54. Come on! Half of Congress is waiting for a partner

Including a certain Repub from California

[no_hypocrisy]

2. Would Trump have to continually pardon himself and his family

to cover future crimes?

[hlthe2b]

4. Well, he can not pardon himself for crimes that are prosecuted in state court, but...

(AND our democracy is done under that scenario to begin with)...but IF he did manage to stay in the WH, then I suppose he would have to keep updating the pardon if he continued to break the law on Federal charges.

[oxbow]

3. When do the statutes of limitations expire on his crimes in NY state?

That is going to be a crucial question going forward from today...

[hlthe2b]

5. No idea.... n/t

[oxbow]

6. Either way, all the more reason to take back congress in 2018

They can't charge him with anything until he's out of office.

[marylandblue]

8. Why not?

[oxbow]

13. Constitution protects potus from criminal charges

In the minds of most experts, at least. He must leave office, resign or be impeached first.

http://www.newsweek.com/trump-comey-laws-constitution-611066

[hlthe2b]

14. Not necessarily from indictment, but any trial for charges appears to have to wait post exit from WH

[oxbow]

19. That would be nice.

So you're saying that statutes of limitations are not important, as long as he's indicted before they take effect? I haven't researched that part of it...

[hlthe2b]

21. Well, the point applies to Federal indictment. It is not settled opinion and whether that would also

apply to State court indictments seems even less clear. But, perhaps....

[marylandblue]

53. It is based on an opinion of Justice Dept attorneys in 1973

Very different circumstances and by no means settled law. But today you could come up with so many scenarios under which failure to allow the President to be charged criminally would be repugnant to the constitution that courts are likely to allow it.

[hlthe2b]

9. That is not setted either... Lawrence Tribe and others have questioned that

[Leghorn21]

16. Hey, 2b, just found this by Mr. Tribe:

Laurence Tribe @tribelaw

Memo to Trump: Anyone you pardon can be compelled to testify without any grant of immunity, and that testimony could undo you.

[hlthe2b]

17. I figured he'd be on top of this development. Good catch.

[ThoughtCriminal]

20. And I don't think they can use 5th Amendment in this circumstance

Since they cannot be prosecuted, they cannot be incriminate themselves.

However, the pardon would not exempt them from perjury in their testimony.

Trump and the legal quacks he hires may not think this one through. Or even if they warn him, he may not be smart enough to understand the implications. This is a guy who doesn't understand the difference between health insurance and "Gerber Life Insurance".

[Alice11111]

33. He is a rogue client for sure, which is one reason he had

Trouble finding lawyers. No one wants to risk their reputation on a client who makes one a LOSER.

[marylandblue]

7. For most crimes in most jurisdictions, it's three years

And I'm sure there are plenty of crimes in the last three years.

[Hamlette]

27. the time for the statute of limitations doesn't start to run until the crime is discovered

so if we just learned of the crime today, and the SoL is 3 years, they can bring the charges three years from yesterday.

[Alice11111]

34. Fraud is usually longer. If he is found criminally liable,

of any crime really, there is pretty much a slam dunk for the civil case. Damages for fraud cannot be discharged in bankruptcy. There go the towers.

However, I'm not sure we are there yet. He will fight until it is hopeless, then, he will try to skirm away, declaring himself the winner.

Wouldn't it be ironic if Sessions, who is recused from most matters, could somehow deliver the final dagger...after refusing to resign.

[lindysalsagal]

15. Don't know but NY convicts and jails politicians on a regular basis, so it can't be impossible.

[hvn_nbr_2]

10. Yeah, for a long time I've thought that if Trump fires Mueller...

Schneiderman would very shortly receive terabytes of data.

[susanna]

11. I certainly hope so. n/t

[lostnfound]

12. Wonder if they get to keep ill-gotten gains... or at least pay taxes on them

If they all end up bankrupt, that would be something.

Except Barron. I want him to live happily ever after.

[Doreen]

25. I have never seen Tiffany do anything related to the rest of the family.

I think she is OK and should not have to pay for their crimes either.

[lostnfound]

55. Good point.

Tiffany and Barron can be designated unjailed survivors.

[Doreen]

57. Yup

[Generic Brad]

18. He will be politically neutered

Hell. He already is politically neutered. He embarrassed Senate Republicans yesterday and they made it clear this morning that they will not take his shit any longer. His camera ban in the press room was openly defied and Huckabee-Sanders was live streamed today. His legal spokesperson quit tonight. Jeff Sessions won't leave his post when pressured.

Trump has no power any longer. He is now on life support and and will get nothing more done.

[Alice11111]

35. I enjoyed reading your post! You make it sound possible.

[diva77]

38. Not only has he been neutered, but Walter Dellinger says he has enhanced Sessions' reputation

http://www.pbs.org/newshour/bb/will-trumps-criticism-chilling-effect-justice-department/

"I think the president’s reputation has suffered enough that his criticism of Attorney General Sessions is likely only to enhance the attorney general’s standing within the department."

----------

Just what we need - Trump is so bad, he makes Sessions look good

[workinclasszero]

56. Thanks for that

Maybe there is hope after all.

[burrowowl]

22. If he pardons himself

it is an admission of guilt and one would have to know what he is guilty of so he would have to state it to be pardoned.
This leaves me askance!

We need a smilie for my jaw haw dropped to the floor!

[Alice11111]

36. Nixon got a generic pardon for everything

[PunkinPi]

51. We've got that...

[bora13]

23. why o why

can't i get a blanket pardon. you know, a get out of jail free card.
why can't i pass them out like halloween candy to my closest comrades.
use them like cheap arcade tickets and trade them for a stuffed BEAR.

[oasis]

24. Lock them up.

[Alice11111]

37. !!!

[Doreen]

26. Can he pardon himself or others from a crime that is still happening?

[PoliticAverse]

28. No. Any criminal activity that occurs after the pardon wouldn't be covered. n/t

[Doreen]

29. I am asking about the crime being commited as we speak.

There is no way that the crime being investigated is not still happening.

[PoliticAverse]

30. Any pardon could cover a crime being committed right until the pardon is issued. n/t

[Doreen]

31. That just seems wrong.

It's kind of like pardoning an abuser while they are in the middle of beating the crap out of the abused and just before the last stroke of the pen to make the pardon official they stop. Not right.

[PoliticAverse]

39. The President's pardon power is great and it is certainly possible to abuse it.

Electors should be careful who they vote for.

[Doreen]

40. I am hoping they learn from this before it is to late.

You get what you vote for but so does everybody else.

[KT2000]

32. the investigations would continue

Mueller is investigating Russian interference and collusion with tRump. That is a national security issue that must be resolved before the next election. according to Jeremy Bash

[Hoyt]

41. Don't think there is a state where a jury could be impaneled where all 12 would vote

to convict Trump?

Now Kushner and Trump's inbred kids, maybe, but still wouldn't bet on it. There is going to be at least 1 white wing racist moron on every jury that thinks the Trumps are being treated unfairly, probably more than one.

[hlthe2b]

42. In NY with a NYC jury pool, yes. Regardless, a unanimous jury is not required in all states

though it is required in Federal criminal trials (and, in NY)

[Hoyt]

50. Not many. Although I'm not going to waste my time, I bet a bunch of those have GOPers

in power who would determine if they are going to prosecute Trump.

Personally, I don't care if he goes to jail as long as he has to climb on that darn helicopter in disgrace and perhaps his family goes under financially. Then we can turn attention to Pence.

[leftynyc]

45. In NYC it would be easy

He is universally detested here downstate.

[Hoyt]

49. He got 36.5% of vote statewide. And if it is like where I live, a good portion of those still

think he's a good white winger.

[leftynyc]

52. He'd be tried downstate

He couldn't even take the primary from Kasich in Manhattan. I can, in all honesty, say I don't know one person personally who voted for him.

[Cosmocat]

48. YEP - nailing this is literally going to be like threading a needle

people want to believe, but there are so many things working against it.

As noted, IF he ends up being prosecuted all it takes is ONE juror ...

[Demsrule86]

44. At this point, I would be satisfied if Trump just left.

[jmg257]

46. Do we think this is all new? trump et. al have been doing business in NY state for

over50 years. (and NJ casinos, and etc etc...)

Do we suddenly think NOW they will get them on something??