I would support Howard Dean for Vermont's US Senator...

[FarPoint]

I would so appreciate it if Howard Dean ran against Bernie Sanders for 2018...

[demmiblue]

1. Lol!

[disillusioned73]

43. ... hehe

[beam me up scottie]

46. Right? Lemme join you...

"I don't live in Vermont but I want to unseat their favourite politician, a progressive firebrand who just happens to be the most popular senator in the country. It should be a slam dunk, we'll just keep trying to recruit someone until we find a person who's willing to spend millions of dollars to enter an unwinnable race. Who's with me?"



I'm a native and I can assure you Vermonters resent outside influence in politics, any effort to prop up a candidate just to unseat a popular politician will backfire. Just ask Richard Tarrant.

[VermontKevin]

68. I live here. It's not a bad idea.

[VermontKevin]

74. I'm not sure what you are accusing me of, but okay. Isn't Bernie from Brooklyn?

[LanternWaste]

114. Does that include influence coming in from Brooklyn,

"Vermonters resent outside influence in politics..."

Does that include influence coming in from Brooklyn, or only when it's convenient to your bias?

[musette_sf]

132. + 1

[riderinthestorm]

83. Me too lol

[JI7]

2. If he was going to run it would be for governor

[Demsrule86]

4. He was the governor I think.

[JI7]

7. Yes.

[NCTraveler]

3. I'm all for a robust primary.

As are all Sanders supporters. I do think Dean would be a better in an executive position. Less endless yelling at walls. I do think Dean would have more of a positive influence and impact as a Senator than Sanders but it is really difficult to remove a well funded career politician.

I'm sure no one will disagree with the idea of a robust primary.

[Wounded Bear]

11. I suspect you might be surprised...

Things have been getting more and more tribal around here.

I agree, but then I'm a moderate who doesn't have a lot of problems with Bernie, other than he isn't a "real" Democrat, as in a member of the party.

[NCTraveler]

14. I don't see Sanders losing in a primary.

I'm all for people getting into the primaries. Specially at the state level. It builds our party and makes us stronger.

[Wounded Bear]

17. That's what I'm agreeing with...

Bernie would likely win any primary, but I see a challenge as a good thing. Keep the democratic discussion going.

[NCTraveler]

20. +1 nt

[FarPoint]

23. Why would there be a Primary ... Bernie is Independent...

Howard Dean is a DEMOCRAT.

[NCTraveler]

28. Because Sanders has a history of running in the Democratic primary.

Take a look at 2012. The one before that as well.

[Kaleva]

19. Sanders being an independent wouldn't face Dean in a primary

[NCTraveler]

22. You are wrong. You have stated an absolute when recent history dictates something different.

In 2006 Sanders ran in the Democratic primary but refused the nomination. That leaves no Democrat on the ballot. He was also the only person to run in the Democratic primary in 2012. He declined the nomination that year as well. It's how it's done.

[Kaleva]

26. My mistake.

I had assumed that Sanders, being an indie, didn't run in any parties primary

[AngryAmish]

82. Only a Sith deals in absolutes.

[ehrnst]

99. I wish. (nt)

[LanternWaste]

115. Right angles are sith constructs?

Mathematics is a Sith construct? Right angles are sith constructs? How uncommonly absurd.

Oddly enough, your very statement is an absolute in and of itself. (Insert distinction lacking relevant difference to better maintain pretense of crappy-movie-based wisdom)

Bless your little heart. Use the force. Get a bigger boat. With god as your witness, you'll never go hungry again...

[FarPoint]

39. Exactly!

[FarPoint]

29. No Primary bases in the two...

Sanders is an Independent and Dean is a DEMOCRAT.

[NCTraveler]

32. Please review history. Nt

[Gothmog]

5. I would love to see Gov. Dean as Vermont's junior senator

[Chasstev365]

6. They like Bernie in Vermont!

[FarPoint]

8. Yes, Vermont loves Bernie...

And Howard Dean.. Dean brings so much to the Democratic Party. .we need a DEMOCRAT in the seat....

[Bohunk68]

91. Howard Dean is against Universal Healthcare.

I believe I saw just within the week a post that he heads a group that is against Universal Healthcare.

[LanternWaste]

116. I've no doubt you interpreted a non-existent post as such...

I've no doubt you interpreted a non-existent post as such... bias requires we do all sorts of creative mental gymnastics for better validation.

[Hortensis]

128. Nonsense. No liberal Democrat is against single payer.

And imo it's very wrong to say so. We're not like the damned Republicans, after all. Right?

These disagreements are about timing and where, how and when to best to invest our power to achieve the most. Interestingly, it's likely the pubs now realize that destroying the ACA might well mean it could be replaced with single payer. As in, if they're not careful, THEY could help create a sufficiently large national desire to pass a single payer system.

[alarimer]

93. Why? Just because of the "team"???

This is fucking stupid.

Bernie Sanders in 99% with the Democratic Party. Who the hell cares what initial is after his name? Only small-minded people who care more about who is on what team or not, that's who.

JFC, I am so sick of the anti-Sanders bullshit here. It's cutting off the nose to spite the face.

[FarPoint]

96. This is not anti Sanders...

I have admired, worked for Howard Dean for President, saw his magnificent success as DNC Chairman....He happens to live in Vermont... Seat is open in 2018...He is a seasoned Democrat who can provide leadership in the US Senate...

[alarimer]

98. No, it is.

And that is ALL it is. Just who is on what team is all that matters to some here.

It's very transparent.

[LanternWaste]

117. I too pretend getting primaried is anti-Bernie.

I too pretend getting primaried, or simply not supporting Sanders is anti-Sanders bullshit-- it makes it easier to convince ourselves we didn't construct the cross we hang ourselves from for more efficient public martyrdom...

[brush]

9. Sanders is quaking in his boots at that thought.

Dean would indeed be a formidable opponent.

[NurseJackie]

10. Yes. Yes, indeed. More Democrats, please!

[FarPoint]

12. Such a healthy step forward....

If I do say myself..

[musette_sf]

131. + 1

[PoindexterOglethorpe]

13. Howard Dean is 68 years old.

Okay, Bernie Sanders is 75, so Dean would at least be younger, but surely there is some other, much younger Democrat in that state who could be looking to challenge Bernie.

[L. Coyote]

15. Go Democrats!

[Voltaire2]

16. Why, you've already got a swell contender

in Jon Svitavsky, or at least that's what I've read here. Did something change?

[emulatorloo]

30. Everyone can see that guy's a doofus. Only saw 2 or 3 folks defend him.

Just because a couple three people are loud doesn't mean they reflect the viewpoint of DU.

Bernie has nothing to worry about.

[LanternWaste]

118. I too pretend a post I read here is applicable to all other opinions...

I too pretend a post I read here is applicable to all other opinions... it allows us to better defend our bias and lack of rational thought. So I suppose nothing changed... regardless of its irrelevance.

[FarPoint]

25. It's not a strong issue...

I thought Howard Dean was an excellent Governor and Chairman of the Democratic Party...Pure leadership.

[emulatorloo]

36. Yes a neon-liberal corporoapparatus

Was pretty effective as Governor and DNC chair though.

Sanders is great, doesn't mean Dean is SATAN.

Personally i'm looking forward to Sanders re-election. He and Patrick Leahey do a great job.

[JHan]

38. i always miss the neoliberalcorporatistshillsatanist posts.

by the time I reach they're hidden.

dammit.

[Tiggeroshii]

21. Not a fan of single payer?

[FarPoint]

27. Sure I am...

That is so far off the radar these days. Bigger fish to fry... another day maybe...

[Tiggeroshii]

31. Cause we need more corporate lobbyists in office, right?

I mean, I would be lying if I didn't say they serve a purpose.

[emulatorloo]

37. Pretty sure our Dems will get behind single payer. Now what's the political roadmap?

Shitting on Democrats who effectively instituted the 50 state strategy and got civil unions in his state way back when, while we work to elect more Republicans?

You know, Bernie guy here. He is unbeatable in Vermont. Doesn't need us to get super defensive.

[FarPoint]

40. I strongly believe we need strong Democrats in Congress.

Howard Dean fills that goal.

[ehrnst]

100. Are you saying that's all Dean is?

Last edited Fri Jul 14, 2017, 01:18 PM - Edit history (2)

Lobbying is what a lot of people do when they leave office - and it doesn't immediately damn them. I would look at their record, and what they did with their influence.

It's like demanding that no one run for office that ever smoked weed, or drank underage. You severely limit your options.

[JCanete]

113. and will always be with that kind of thinking...

[Thrill]

24. Are people unhappy with Bernie there?

[Tiggeroshii]

33. Not in a million years.

Bernie is literally the most popular politician among his constituency.

[ehrnst]

108. Senators of small, homogenous populations always top that list, for obvious reasons. (nt)

[VermontKevin]

70. Some are.

[ehrnst]

102. He has dropped 12% in approval ratings (Morning Consult) in VT since last September.

July:
https://morningconsult.com/july-2017-senator-rankings/

September:

https://morningconsult.com/senator-approval-rankings-september-2016/

[Raster]

34. Do you live in Vermont?

[FarPoint]

54. I am in Vermont often .

I have a college student there in Montpelier

[Raster]

60. But you don't live in Vermont, and neither are you a voting citizen of Vermont, correct?

[beam me up scottie]

69. If I lived in Ohio I would worry about getting rid of my Republican senator Rob Portman.

Vermonters aren't interested in replacing Bernie so maybe the op and every other non resident should worry about their own backyards instead of trying to unseat the most popular senator in the country and splitting the Democratic vote in a solidly blue state.

Even if this fantasy were to come true Howard would lose. Vermonters don't like it when outsiders interfere in their politics and they would resent flatlanders propping up a candidate just because they want to get even with Bernie for not joining the team.

[VermontKevin]

72. "Flatlander'? DIdn't the people of Vermont elect a Jewish, Brooklyn born hippie

flatlander?

[Raster]

73. and that is EXACTLY what this is: getting even for some imagined slight

Senator Sanders serves the citizens of the State of Vermont, not the DNC, not the Democratic Party and certainly not the "can't get over the last primary" crowd on Democratic Underground.

It. Is. Time. To. Move. On.

[beam me up scottie]

75. You do have to wonder about priorities.

With the upcoming battles in 2018 is it really worth risking this senate seat simply because a few out-of-staters dislike Bernie?

We need to focus on reelecting senators whose seats are threatened and maybe taking back a few others, this petty obsession with revenge is going to cost us if people don't learn to move on.

[ehrnst]

112. "A few out-of-staters?"

His approval has dropped 12 points in VT since last September.

[karynnj]

119. Note that even WITH that drop, he still has the HIGHEST approval rating of any Senator in his state

Further note that implying a trend from two points is not a good idea.

[ehrnst]

120. 12 points, not 2. Senators from states with small homogenous populations always top that list

for obvious reasons.

[FarPoint]

85. Finding a good candidate in Ohio is most difficult.

My goal in Ohio is to KEEP Senator Sherrod Brown....I have an association with Vermont and highly respect the wisdom of Howard Dean.

[ehrnst]

103. How is talking about the VT primaries "trying to unseat" Bernie?

And you are aware of his dropping approval ratings there.

[NYC Liberal]

123. Does Sanders only vote on issues that pertain to Vermont?

[SaschaHM]

35. I'd love for Dean to run for that Senate Seat.

Bernie can always run for the Governor's mansion and attempt to implement his reforms/agenda from there.

That being said, I would like to see more Democrats step up in VT just in case the whole Jane Sanders thing, https://www.nytimes.com/2017/07/10/us/jane-sanders-vermont-burlington-college-investigation.html, goes sideways and we need to field somebody at the last minute.

[ehrnst]

104. Yep. There is that issue.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/investigations/federal-prosecutors-step-up-probe-of-land-deal-pushed-by-wife-of-bernie-sanders/2017/07/10/e3fc3e72-625a-11e7-8adc-fea80e32bf47_story.html

[pirateshipdude]

41. I have been wanting him to make an announcement for a good year now. Eom

[dembotoz]

42. and split this party open open like an over ripe melon

go right ahead trumps 1000 year reich will get a boost from it

[emulatorloo]

44. Bernie's unbeatable in Vermont.

End of story.

[ehrnst]

121. Small, overwhelmingly white, rural population.

Not diverse, and not requiring a senator that would address issues outside their demographic.

[disillusioned73]

45. There is already a challenger..

for Bernies seat, and I suspect that he visits DU.... & probably has about the same shot as anybody

“I believe that Bernie Sanders’ entire involvement with the Democratic party has been devastating,” he said. “I think it was a big mistake for the Democratic party to let him in in the first place.”

[link:http://www.nbcnews.com/politics/elections/bernie-sanders-faces-feisty-democratic-challenger-n780861|

[Voltaire2]

90. If you like homophobes and racists Jon is your guy.

You might want to do a little research.

[disillusioned73]

97. My post..

was, tounge firmly placed in cheek

[Expecting Rain]

47. I'd like a Democrat

One who supports the party, and accepts its nomination for Senator (rather than turning it down).

I'd support Howard Dean.

[R B Garr]

48. Thx, great descriptors here. Howard Dean has also expressed interest in

developing new talent in the Democratic party, so he is very embracing instead of polarizing. He will cultivate new positive talent and talking points instead of punitive disparaging remarks about Democrats that are just divisive.

[Expecting Rain]

49. If only others from Vermont followed Dean's lead

As the dismissive, disparaging, and punitive attacks on Democrats have gotten really old.

We could use new leadership in VT's junior Senate seat. A proud Democrat would be a nice change.

[DefenseLawyer]

50. James Carville has a nice pair of Pumas you can borrow.

[FarPoint]

55. Well...

Your attitude makes me reconsider getting a pair...

[MineralMan]

51. Would you? Are you from Maine?

If not, I guess you don't have much to say about that...If Senator Sanders runs for re-election, he will win handily. Vermonters vote in Vermont. People from other states don't.

[R B Garr]

53. Sanders backed Debbie Wasserman Schultz's opponent.

What was that about.

And it's not about winning or losing. It's about getting another dialogue out that is actually useful for Democrats, not just endless disparagements.

[MineralMan]

65. Yes, and people in Florida chose Schultz. As is their privilege to do.

Input from other states rarely has any effect on such elections. Only people in that district get to vote, and they have their own ideas about how to cast their votes.

So far, Bernie Sanders' endorsements have not led to victories for his endorsees. That's why. People decide who they want to represent them for themselves.

If I were asked, I'd advise Bernie Sanders to stick to serving his own constituents and stay out of Democratic races in other states. I'd advise that for all congressional legislators. I was not asked, though.

[Bohunk68]

92. You mean the DWS during whose tenure as DNC head

the Democratic Party lost scads of Dems up and down the line? That DWS? She should have be primaried in every election that she runs in.

[ehrnst]

105. Her constituents will make that decision. (nt)

[FarPoint]

58. I shared...

That I would like to see Howard Dean run for the US Senate Seat 2018... Vermont....Let the people decide...

[Raster]

61. "shared"

[R B Garr]

62. There was and is a lot of talk in my state of California

about new Senators. Boxer retired or left; now we have Kamala Harris. There's talk of Feinstein retiring. People talk about these things.

[MineralMan]

64. Californians decide who they want in the Senate.

They don't require input from other states. I lived over 50 years in California. Now I live in Minnesota. I don't advise Californians about who should represent them any more. Now, I vote in Minnesota.

[R B Garr]

66. Does this mean I can't

heart Franken?

Love him. He's a national treasure.

[MineralMan]

67. You can like anyone you wish.

However, your opinion about who I should support in my own state is irrelevant.

[SaschaHM]

81. Who told you who to support?

[FarPoint]

77. Why to you find pleasure in belittling another DU member?

I find it so tRump like ... Please rise above.

[Raster]

78. oh do you... why don't you rise above and MOVE ON

[FarPoint]

84. I so hope you work on you people skills

We have plenty of hate and belittling in this country....

To answer your question....No, I won't move on....you lack power to make, suggest or demand such....

Have a good night....

[Iggo]

56. Trash thread.

Nothing personal.

[trueblue2007]

59. I respect HOWARD DEAN and I'd vote for him !!!!!

[physioex]

86. Ask him about single payor! EOM

[trueblue2007]

88. SINGLE PAYER WHATEVER .... that would not be a deal breaker for me.

[ehrnst]

107. Single Payer or bust has become dogma, to our detriment.

Just like "Defund Planned Parenthood!" on the right.

Neither has the support of nuetral health policy analysts.

[ehrnst]

106. I think that's pretty much a settled issue in Vermont. (nt)

[karynnj]

95. Do you live in Vermont? nt

[George II]

63. If he ran I'd drive the hour and 20 minutes up there every weekend to campaign for him.....

....imagine Howard Dean in the Senate with the likes of Al Franken, Kirsten Gillibrand, Amy Kobuchar, etc.?

[R B Garr]

129. Absolutely, and I bet you would get a lot of company. And it might happen,

considering there's a new New York Times article by Yamiche Alcindor out that I just now saw on MSN about the bank fraud scandal taking a toll on the Sanders' "liberal luster," words right out of the article title. I won't link it, but it's fresh off the press (4 hrs ago). The article is interesting, but who knows what will happen.

Howard Dean is a very balanced person. He is fair all the way around, and he would be an asset, and very inclusive. He would be a great choice.

[Lordquinton]

76. Why all the energy for no gain in the senate?

We have actual seats we can flip for a gain, instead of further driving a wedge in the party.

[Bleacher Creature]

79. That seat should be held by a Democrat.

Howard Dean is an awesome Democrat.

That's all I can and should say about the matter. People can draw their own conclusions about the rest.

[DFW]

87. Howard is probably not interested and Judy definitely is not interested

Howard respects her wishes and is a family man, so don't expect this to happen.

Besides, there is some old bad blood between Howard and Sanders that dates back to a dispute in Burlington. Neither of them wants a bloody primary where none is needed. By the way, Howard won that old dispute, and the two didn't speak for four years!

[R B Garr]

89. That is a very interesting vignette! I'll be curious

to look up that dispute between Dean and Sanders, which Dean won. Wow, that might shed light on some of the unexplainable negative attitude towards Democrats.

[DFW]

124. It was about three decades ago

I got this from someone in Burlington who was a Sanders supporter last year, but is personally close to Howard as well, closer, in fact, than to Bernie on a personal level, although he knows Bernie well, too.

As I heard it, Sanders was mayor of Burlington and was looking for ways to raise money for the city. Howard was a member of the Vermont House of Representatives, which, even though he rose to assistant minority leader, was still very much a part-time position, and he was still an actively practicing physician. There was some stretch of land between the edge of the city that Sanders wanted developed with housing. Howard wanted it left alone as undeveloped public land that anyone could use to go by foot or bicycle to get to and from the lake shore. The dispute grew into a big legal fight, and Howard, even back then a big environmentalist, won the dispute. Each was furious with the other, and they didn't speak for four years after that.

Before anyone tries to make too much of that, though, it means they HAVE again been on speaking terms for nearly the last 30 years.

[R B Garr]

125. Thanks for that background! That is very interesting.

That's interesting that Sanders' wanted the land developed for houses, considering what is going on now with his wife's current fraud case about buying the land for Burlington College. I thought Sanders' was more of a hands-off type guy about developers, and he is now being questioned about whether or not he exerted any influence in helping Burlington College secure that loan, so this is actually an interesting twist. Glad they are both on speaking terms again, but this also matches what is said about Sanders' and building coalitions.

FYI, your posts/pictures and political connections are always so interesting, and thanks for sharing your lovely family with us.

[DFW]

126. I have crossed some interesting paths, for sure

But the luckiest path I crossed was definitely meeting my wife, some 43 years ago!

[R B Garr]

127. Yes, your wife is stunning. I have some very distant relatives in Germany

and wish I was in closer touch with them. Your travels are also very interesting.

[jalan48]

94. Bernie is probably the most popular politician on the left. We need him in the Senate.

[David__77]

109. Dean will not run against Sanders.

This strikes me as on the very extremist fringe of a heritage reaching back to the PUMAs. Not saying that it actually is- it strikes me that way. A sure means for the solid defeat of the Democratic Party.

[FarPoint]

110. I have always admired Howard Dean....

He proved himself as Chairman of the Democratic Party.... great leadership.

[David__77]

111. In 2004, I wanted him to be president.

I don't think he will run against Sanders. If there's a retirement of Sanders or Leahy, maybe he will run.

[DFW]

134. Judy would go ballistic

Don't count on it

[NYC Liberal]

122. I find it interesting...

It's completely fine to insist that Nancy Pelosi, a very popular and effective Democrat, must be replaced. It doesn't matter if the people suggesting it live in her district.

But don't you dare suggest replacing an independent, who has trashed the Democratic Party for years and has been utterly ineffective, with an actual Democrat! You don't live in Vermont!

[musette_sf]

130. + 1

[Jakes Progress]

133. Interesting?

Or just nauseating.

+1

[R B Garr]

135. +1, exactly. nt

[Grey Street]

136. Hi

Hi! I found you lololol

[FarPoint]

137. Hello there....

Welcome to DU.....

[herding cats]

138. Is this a friend or yours who found the site?

I'm just curious.

[FarPoint]

139. I always enjoyed the DU welcome

We need to do it much more...Use to be almost a traditional community welcome.

[pat_k]

140. Welcome to DU!