General Discussion
Related: Editorials & Other Articles, Issue Forums, Alliance Forums, Region ForumsIt's official. Hillary Clinton was NOT running against Donald Trump.
Hillary Clinton was forced to run against the concerted effort and power of every intelligence agency under the control of the Russian Government.
And she damn near won any way.
I don't EVER want to hear the bullshit nonsense that she wasn't a good candidate. She was a brilliant candidate. Nobody could have won under those conditions and nobody else would have come as close to winning.
Evergreen Emerald
(13,069 posts)BeyondGeography
(39,367 posts)Yes, she was jobbed. Yes, she made some pretty bad mistakes. One fact doesn't eliminate the other.
ehrnst
(32,640 posts)Stating the obvious fact that she she soundly won the popular vote, despite the facts of statistical improbability of a party holding the WH for more than 8 consecutive years, 25 years of false smears by the GOP, and the efforts of the Kremlin does not = saying that she didn't make mistakes.
Is that clearer?
DK504
(3,847 posts)right wing conspiracy'?
All campaigns make mistakes, but to say she ran her campaign into the ground rankles.... How is a campaign supposed to deal with political issues and an enemy governemnt going after all at the same time. Bernie got her to move to a bit m ore to the left, but she still was penalized for not being Bernie. Those that didn't vote or cast protest votes were one of the major downfalls in her loss. Depsite the fact Russia got into our voting machines, she still got more votes.
She was Sisyphus and she is still being raked over the coals by democrats.
BeyondGeography
(39,367 posts)That's what I was responding to. Your points are well taken.
pirateshipdude
(967 posts)Clinton ran a tight, well run, organized campaign. She left very little for the other side to use against her. Perfect? When have we ever demanded perfect and what in the world would that even look like?
Never had we had the need to address our candidates that have run such a brilliant campaign, faced with all kinds of manners as Clinton, repeat constantly that she and her campaigned was deeply flawed. Demanded she and every person that talks about the events repeated acknowledge and apologize for her huge errors, of insignificance. Seeing what Clinton faced.
I find all this ridiculous.
ehrnst
(32,640 posts)"the RIGHT woman," in other words, not the first choice of the white straight men in the party. Any normal mistake was blown way bigger than would be for a male candidate.
BeyondGeography
(39,367 posts)Thanks, as always, for the laughs.
ehrnst
(32,640 posts)ehrnst
(32,640 posts)and Russia.
StevieM
(10,500 posts)and getting him to look crazy.
A lot of her so-called mistakes are just the media piling on. Some are pure fiction.
Had the election taken place 11 days earlier she would have won decisively. The illegitimate FBI letter to Chaffetz changed all that.
BeyondGeography
(39,367 posts)every now and then. But the blue wall crumbled on her watch and without relitigating the campaign she bears a lot of responsibility for that.
pirateshipdude
(967 posts)ehrnst
(32,640 posts)Not sure what you mean by that. Can you clarify?
StevieM
(10,500 posts)No candidate could have survived what they did to her.
To what ever extent it was unique to her it was about the way that they could attribute all sorts of imaginary power to a former first lady.
I don't believe our loss had anything to do with campaign strategy or the issues.
LanternWaste
(37,748 posts)"she bears a lot of responsibility for that..."
So you keep alleging sans any objective evidence. No doubt, a great bias prevents you from doing so, though I'm certain your rationalize will be anything but...
YCHDT
(962 posts)jmg257
(11,996 posts)Into voting for someone else, most for such a disaster as trump.
Foolish.
ehrnst
(32,640 posts)jmg257
(11,996 posts)Fake news, Comey BS, etc. confirmed their doubts?
ehrnst
(32,640 posts)fed a lot of misogyny.
Brainstormy
(2,380 posts)time will tell.
annabanana
(52,791 posts)lib-ruhl
(127 posts)the ones who couldn't be bothered with voting because they thought it wouldn't matter or make a difference. If them fuckers aren't out in full force in 2018 and 2020 with whats going on now, then I don't know what will.
democratisphere
(17,235 posts)Hoyt
(54,770 posts)NRaleighLiberal
(60,013 posts)FailureToCommunicate
(14,012 posts)retrowire
(10,345 posts)He did what a competitor should do. He gave her competition. She still came out on top so, yeah.
NurseJackie
(42,862 posts)Amimnoch
(4,558 posts)I generally don't post about it but I do. Not ALL blame, as there's other factors that played into it, but as close as it was, if any of the factors (of which this was one) that played into it were removed, we wouldn't be in the mess we're in now.
NurseJackie
(42,862 posts)Amimnoch
(4,558 posts)NurseJackie
(42,862 posts)NastyRiffraff
(12,448 posts)Except, of course you. Who the hell CARES about Sanders?
retrowire
(10,345 posts)Just a statement. If you carry it into something further that's your own actions. It was just my opinion outright. Hillary won. Bernie not to blame. Problem?
NastyRiffraff
(12,448 posts)There are plenty of threads honoring Bernie around, after all.
retrowire
(10,345 posts)There's a list of things people blame for her loss. Bernie is often on that list when he shouldn't be.
Problem? You honestly seem triggered at the mention of his name in an opinion that wholeheartedly agrees with the OP. There is no conflict in this opinion of mine.
Check your feelings.
NastyRiffraff
(12,448 posts)retrowire
(10,345 posts)That's expected. What a waste of time it is to be indirectly accused of ulterior motives and asked for an explanation only to be laughed at when you point out the paranoia is a bit too herky jerky.
I'd expect to be among adults in this forum.
NastyRiffraff
(12,448 posts)retrowire
(10,345 posts)NastyRiffraff
(12,448 posts)retrowire
(10,345 posts)Petrushka
(3,709 posts). . . by bringing up his honeymoon in Russia and by making a big to-do about Bernie's campaign manager being of Russian origin.
Why, I wondered at that time, were fingers being pointed at Russia?
When some people went so far as to suggest that Russian trolls were posting messages on DU, my reaction was, "Oh, for God's sake, what next? Unbelievable! "
Anyway . . .
In my opinion, Bernie wasn't to blame for anything but running a good campaign against a better campaigner.
retrowire
(10,345 posts)Most of them moved over to JPR. I feel bad for the innocent genuines that got mixed up in that.
I agree with your opinion, as it is the same as my own.
Petrushka
(3,709 posts). . . I was never curious enough to look into that place---wherever or whatever it is. Besides: At my advanced age and poor eyesight, I'm trying to spend less time staring into the screen glare of this contraption in order to read any more bullshit than necessary . . . if you know what I mean.
beam me up scottie
(57,349 posts)Not here but you can find Republican trolls on Twitter and Facebook who still refer to Bernie as a communist, bring up his time in a kibbutz and claim he's a Russian agent. The dog whistles about his loyalty to the United States are still being blown frequently in other places.
And I completely agree with your last sentence. Imo Bernie made Hillary a better candidate and they worked well together after the primaries were over.
Petrushka
(3,709 posts). . . never stopped blowing those same dog whistles since the primary season!
Maven
(10,533 posts)He bears some of the responsibility for how this went down. I know you don't like to acknowledge that, but it's the truth. If we're saying that Hillary made mistakes, let's also admit that her opposition made mistakes too.
retrowire
(10,345 posts)After all, he was competing.
Outside of competing, what did he do? I'm open to it.
Maven
(10,533 posts)But suffice it to say that if you frame everything he did as "competing", then you could use that to justify pretty much anything. There's a bigger picture than that, and he lost track of it. That's about as far as I'll go.
retrowire
(10,345 posts)oasis
(49,370 posts)mountain grammy
(26,614 posts)plus all those not counted.
secondwind
(16,903 posts)Orrex
(63,199 posts)Gothmog
(145,086 posts)Mrs. Overall
(6,839 posts)DFW
(54,335 posts)"Those who cast the votes decide nothing. Those who count the votes decide everything."
StevieM
(10,500 posts)But let's not forget the damage that the partisan FBI caused. Comey had no right to send that ridiculous letter to Jason Chaffetz.
bora13
(860 posts)when you hear someone (erroneously) accuse
another of one devious scheme after another,
the accusers should be looked at in-depth as well.
mcar
(42,298 posts)niyad
(113,234 posts)Orsino
(37,428 posts)onecaliberal
(32,816 posts)She SHOULD be sitting in the oval right now, not that orange piece of maggot shit.