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Fri Jul 7, 2017, 08:27 AM

Ken Burns to Evangelical Voters: 'What Part of Donald Trump Reminds You of Jesus Christ?'

http://www.esquire.com/news-politics/a46441/ken-burns-evangelicals-trump/

Ken Burns to Evangelical Voters: 'What Part of Donald Trump Reminds You of Jesus Christ?'

"He lusts after his own daughter on national radio."
By Jack Holmes
Jul 5, 2016



Donald Trump's appeal to Evangelical voters is perplexing and bizarre, and it has earned the attention of more than one political observer. Samantha Bee dug into the phenomenon and came to the conclusion that it boiled down to a kind of identity politics, and now legendary documentarian Ken Burns has weighed in. He sat down with The Daily Beast to discuss a retrospective of his films just released online, but the conversation quickly drifted to the 2016 election.

Burns did not mince words when it came to Donald Trump and the religious right, the culmination of what he sees as a long con:


"The Republican Party has been extraordinarily successful at getting many groups of people to vote against their self-interest. Evangelicals are voting for Donald Trump. What part of Donald Trump reminds you of Jesus Christ? Trump lusts after his own daughter on national radio, talks about women's bodies and breasts in such a disparaging way, and mocks them. How is this in any way Christian? When you make the "other" the enemy, how is that Christian?"


Much of Burns' work deals with "race as a central subtheme of American life," and that extends to The Central Park Five, a documentary about five black teenagers wrongfully convicted of raping a white female jogger in New York's famed greenspace. Burns believes that Trump's role in that fiasco is telling:


"He shamefully took out a full-page ad in all of the New York dailies asking for a restoration of the death penalty for two 14-year-old, two 15-year-old, and one 16-year-old innocent children. While New York State laws would not have permitted their execution, just the fact that there was a rush to judgment ought to be complete evidence of how temperamentally unsuited he is for the office he now seeks."


And when asked if his involvement was racially motivated:


"Of course it was {racially motivated}. I found no outrage at the "preppie killer." The problem was that the initial idea of the crime was that there were these "wilding" black youths—a wolf pack—that attacked this innocent blond woman, and that's always been the primal fear of Americans as they tolerated slavery and then tolerated Jim Crow. You had newspapers in a progressive northern city sounding like a southern racist newspaper from the 1880s gleefully reporting on a lynching."


You can catch the full interview here-at link.

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Reply Ken Burns to Evangelical Voters: 'What Part of Donald Trump Reminds You of Jesus Christ?' (Original post)
babylonsister Jul 2017 OP
mucifer Jul 2017 #1
TheBlackAdder Jul 2017 #81
Roy Rolling Jul 2017 #104
HAB911 Jul 2017 #2
GusBob Jul 2017 #3
Hortensis Jul 2017 #70
TomSlick Jul 2017 #87
Hortensis Jul 2017 #88
TomSlick Jul 2017 #90
Motownman78 Jul 2017 #94
TomSlick Jul 2017 #95
SergeStorms Jul 2017 #98
TomSlick Jul 2017 #110
SergeStorms Jul 2017 #111
BigmanPigman Jul 2017 #91
Dulcinea Jul 2017 #4
Squinch Jul 2017 #8
WoonTars Jul 2017 #78
NewJeffCT Jul 2017 #5
Scarsdale Jul 2017 #25
calimary Jul 2017 #41
NewJeffCT Jul 2017 #46
snort Jul 2017 #54
lapislzi Jul 2017 #63
Lars39 Jul 2017 #105
sinkingfeeling Jul 2017 #66
kerry-is-my-prez Jul 2017 #96
Dustlawyer Jul 2017 #97
exboyfil Jul 2017 #6
Achilleaze Jul 2017 #7
Nitram Jul 2017 #9
Scarsdale Jul 2017 #27
Nitram Jul 2017 #45
keithbvadu2 Jul 2017 #48
Rollo Jul 2017 #101
keithbvadu2 Jul 2017 #107
bearssoapbox Jul 2017 #10
Mariana Jul 2017 #57
bearssoapbox Jul 2017 #61
Hortensis Jul 2017 #71
Major Nikon Jul 2017 #92
videohead5 Jul 2017 #11
Scarsdale Jul 2017 #28
TrishaJ Jul 2017 #29
JI7 Jul 2017 #12
padfun Jul 2017 #31
keithbvadu2 Jul 2017 #50
Hieronymus Jul 2017 #79
G_j Jul 2017 #13
WinkyDink Jul 2017 #14
Mojoe31 Jul 2017 #15
rzemanfl Jul 2017 #18
HelenWheels Jul 2017 #20
ailsagirl Jul 2017 #34
Caliman73 Jul 2017 #49
Kaleva Jul 2017 #53
Shell_Seas Jul 2017 #16
greymattermom Jul 2017 #17
Duppers Jul 2017 #33
trotsky Jul 2017 #19
lapislzi Jul 2017 #65
trotsky Jul 2017 #76
not fooled Jul 2017 #109
WhiskeyGrinder Jul 2017 #21
oberliner Jul 2017 #24
Cosmocat Jul 2017 #42
DinahMoeHum Jul 2017 #22
dalton99a Jul 2017 #108
oberliner Jul 2017 #23
Kentonio Jul 2017 #26
Initech Jul 2017 #43
LakeArenal Jul 2017 #30
Duppers Jul 2017 #32
Locrian Jul 2017 #37
Duppers Jul 2017 #40
Locrian Jul 2017 #47
Duppers Jul 2017 #85
Bayard Jul 2017 #59
Duppers Jul 2017 #72
Hekate Jul 2017 #35
SDJay Jul 2017 #36
SCantiGOP Jul 2017 #38
Cyrano Jul 2017 #39
Major Nikon Jul 2017 #93
WinkyDink Jul 2017 #99
Major Nikon Jul 2017 #100
WinkyDink Jul 2017 #103
samnsara Jul 2017 #44
keithbvadu2 Jul 2017 #51
Sneederbunk Jul 2017 #52
DetlefK Jul 2017 #55
Kaleva Jul 2017 #56
Missn-Hitch Jul 2017 #60
Vinca Jul 2017 #58
randr Jul 2017 #62
Lifelong Protester Jul 2017 #64
lindysalsagal Jul 2017 #67
broadcaster90210 Jul 2017 #68
DownriverDem Jul 2017 #69
kentuck Jul 2017 #73
oegthe Jul 2017 #74
maryellen99 Jul 2017 #75
Hieronymus Jul 2017 #77
Goonch Jul 2017 #80
Honeycombe8 Jul 2017 #82
47of74 Jul 2017 #84
Initech Jul 2017 #83
JHB Jul 2017 #86
TomSlick Jul 2017 #89
marlakay Jul 2017 #102
misanthrope Jul 2017 #106

Response to babylonsister (Original post)

Fri Jul 7, 2017, 08:34 AM

1. Cut PBS Funding! Just kidding. K and R!

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Response to mucifer (Reply #1)

Fri Jul 7, 2017, 05:02 PM

81. This misses the point. Evangelicals, Pentecostals, etc. care about SCOTUS. Trump delivers that.

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Response to TheBlackAdder (Reply #81)

Sat Jul 8, 2017, 04:56 AM

104. Good point

But to get the SCOTUS appointment, they made a deal with the devil's puppet. There's a lesson yet to be learned from this error in moral pandering.

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Response to babylonsister (Original post)

Fri Jul 7, 2017, 08:43 AM

2. LOL, 'What Part of Donald Trump Reminds You of Jesus Christ?'


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Response to babylonsister (Original post)

Fri Jul 7, 2017, 08:48 AM

3. All evangelicals are sex fiends at heart

I never met a hardcore Christian that was not stupid, a liar, a thief or a sex fiend


They all lust after their kin(d)

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Response to GusBob (Reply #3)

Fri Jul 7, 2017, 02:44 PM

70. Now, now. The percentage who are at least stupid IS likely to rise after

this disastrous era. They are giving their evangelistic churches very bad names. Their boards of directors and preachers, even the better ones, have also been corrupted by fear of losing their congregants if they actually, you know, teach religion.

Btw, try plugging Jew, black, Catholic, Hispanic, lesbian, Muslim, or any minority of your choice into your sentence and seeing how it reads.

Then imagine any of the many Christian DUers reading your post. DU should not be a haven for anti-religious bias.

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Response to Hortensis (Reply #70)

Fri Jul 7, 2017, 08:09 PM

87. Hear, hear.

I have been railing against the anti-Christian tone of several posts on DU for sometime.

As I remember the rules, posts on DU are not supposed to belittle other Democrats. Therefore, either the posts that demean ALL Christians violate the rules or there is an assumption that NO Christian can possibly be a Democrat.

If Democrats are to ever again carry the great middle of the country, the party needs to be welcoming of people of all faiths and none.

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Response to TomSlick (Reply #87)

Fri Jul 7, 2017, 08:27 PM

88. Yes. TOS frequently violated: No bigotry/insensitivity.

This is the big one since it comes into play every time people step over this line. Plus,

No divisive group attacks: "Do not smear, insult, vilify, bait, maliciously caricature, or give disrespectful nicknames to any groups of people that are part of the Democratic coalition..."

No kooky, extremist, or hate content: Some of the anti-religion posts we see fall into this category, sadly not uncommonly either.

No personal attacks or flaming, support Democrats, don't bash Democratic public figures may all be violated depending on context.

Needless to day, religious DUers, and visitors come to see what we're about, should not be targets of insults. And we do have religion forums where members can discuss their beliefs without abusing others.

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Response to Hortensis (Reply #88)

Fri Jul 7, 2017, 08:46 PM

90. Thanks

This is really a problem. We really cannot afford to run Christians from the Democratic party.

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Response to TomSlick (Reply #87)

Fri Jul 7, 2017, 09:35 PM

94. Notice how the post stated

 

"Hardcore Christians". The person is not talking about all Christians so the rule doesn't apply.

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Response to Motownman78 (Reply #94)

Fri Jul 7, 2017, 09:42 PM

95. What does "Hardcore" Christian mean?

Is a "hardcore" Christian one that really believes what s/he says s/he believes? If so, then I'm a "hardcore" Christian - and yet a liberal Democrat.

If you mean hypocrites that abuse the Gospel to advance anti-Christian politics, I'd call them anti-Christians. Loose language is dangerous. Non-DUers read our posts. Unless the goal is to make it clear that Christians are not welcome in the Democratic Party, these wild generalizations need to stop.

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Response to TomSlick (Reply #87)

Sat Jul 8, 2017, 12:58 AM

98. So there's no poking fun.....

at RELIGION allowed, or just the people who believe in it? They ARE mutually exclusive, in my opinion. A person IS NOT their religion, correct? Are secular humanists supposed to keep quiet and not speak THEIR minds about religion, while the religious can speak freely about their beliefs whenever they wish? Where, and why does MY right to free speech stop? Is that to be decided by the religious members? We're walking a very slippery slope when people demand that OTHER people cannot express themselves.

I refuse to be silenced about my NON-BELIEF in christian dogma. I firmly believe that is my right, and that it's protected by the 1st amendment. Just sayin'.

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Response to SergeStorms (Reply #98)

Sat Jul 8, 2017, 10:18 PM

110. You have every right to say whatever you will.

I took an oath in 1979 to defend the Constitution against all enemies foreign and domestic. That includes your right to denigrate others because of their faith.

Denigrating Christians on this site will convince some that Christians are not welcome in the Democratic Party. If that is your goal, then carry on. If you would ever like to see the Democratic Party win in the center of the country, I recommend otherwise.

It's clear you will not be convinced and I will not argue further.

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Response to TomSlick (Reply #110)

Sat Jul 8, 2017, 10:57 PM

111. Did you read what I wrote?

I said religion and the religious are mutually exclusive. I'll make fun of religion until the sun goes down, but I'll seldom directly make fun of someone for their beliefs. Please, put me on your ignore list.

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Response to GusBob (Reply #3)

Fri Jul 7, 2017, 09:07 PM

91. They are some of the biggest hypocrites on Earth along with Repub.

That is precisely why they go hand in hand....shared hypocrisy.

Don't even get me started on Catholics and child molesting!

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Response to babylonsister (Original post)

Fri Jul 7, 2017, 08:57 AM

4. Jesus was white.

Oh wait...

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Response to Dulcinea (Reply #4)

Fri Jul 7, 2017, 09:13 AM

8. Like Santa. And we know because Megyn told us so.

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Response to Squinch (Reply #8)

Fri Jul 7, 2017, 04:31 PM

78. Right? Except of course Dump is orange...

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Response to babylonsister (Original post)

Fri Jul 7, 2017, 08:59 AM

5. The evangelicals know that Trump is not Christ-Like

They don't care because he loudly promised to give them a SCOTUS judge like Scalia, and he gave them Gorusch. Promise fulfilled in their eyes.

In their eyes, abortion "trumps" their candidate's personal failings. Evangelicals seem to be a lot more capable of holding their noses and voting for Trump than many Democrats and progressives were with Clinton regarding issues from 10 or 20 years ago (DOMA, Iraq War vote, etc)

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Response to NewJeffCT (Reply #5)

Fri Jul 7, 2017, 10:21 AM

25. Their pastors

tell them WHO to vote for, and they follow like sheep. Didn't Jesus hang out with prostitutes? There is something he and tRump have in common. Both like women with few or no morals. At least Jesus knew the women did not hang onto him because of his money!!

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Response to NewJeffCT (Reply #5)

Fri Jul 7, 2017, 11:31 AM

41. I wonder if they ever considered what they'd do with themselves if abortion were outlawed.

If they finally get their wish (and I suspect a couple of people I know who voted for trump - whom I felt would ordinarily be smart enough to know better), what hard-on will they have left? What WILL they do with themselves? What WILL they gripe about? Probably prey upon people of color, but the big one will have gone away. Assuming they achieve their objective, of course.

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Response to calimary (Reply #41)

Fri Jul 7, 2017, 11:41 AM

46. They would need to investigate

every back alley in the country to make sure there were illegal abortions being provided.

Or, more likely, the SCOTUS would make it a state issue, so evangelicals will go state by state to overturn it at the state level.

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Response to calimary (Reply #41)

Fri Jul 7, 2017, 12:15 PM

54. They'd stay busy shaming single mothers.

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Response to calimary (Reply #41)

Fri Jul 7, 2017, 01:42 PM

63. Abortion's just a foot in the door

As we are seeing. Next, birth control. Unmarried people of any gender cohabiting. Invasive investigations of miscarriages and newborn deaths. Codification of the exclusion of women, POC, and LGBTQ people from the workplace.

They think The Handmaid's Tale is an instruction manual.

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Response to lapislzi (Reply #63)

Sat Jul 8, 2017, 05:58 AM

105. And then the big one...owning property.

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Response to calimary (Reply #41)

Fri Jul 7, 2017, 01:53 PM

66. Gays will be their sole target after the end of legal abortion (they'll

never end abortion).

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Response to calimary (Reply #41)

Fri Jul 7, 2017, 09:53 PM

96. They will always come up with more and more stuff. Next, they'll be conned that the sky is green

and that grass is blue.

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Response to NewJeffCT (Reply #5)

Fri Jul 7, 2017, 10:47 PM

97. Abortion is a big reason, but how do they overlook cutting Meals on Wheels and other

social safety net protections? How do they overlook cutting these programs like Medicaid to give the mega rich more money?

My only thought is they have been attached to the Right so long that they have swallowed all of the propaganda and lost their way as Christians.

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Response to babylonsister (Original post)

Fri Jul 7, 2017, 09:11 AM

6. Here is more like Herod Antipas

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Response to babylonsister (Original post)

Fri Jul 7, 2017, 09:12 AM

7. Yeah, what part?

time to pull the mask off the republican throng of so-called christians.

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Response to babylonsister (Original post)

Fri Jul 7, 2017, 09:20 AM

9. A few of observations.

1. They believe Trump when he says he is against abortion (now) and they swoon over his picture-perfect family (overlooking his serial adultery and multiple marriages).

2. Conservative evangelicals focus a great deal more on the violent, murderous, vindictive, jealous Old Testament Jehovah than the merciful teaching of Jesus.

3. They like a strong man (i.e., a law and order banana-republic-type strongman) who puts women in their "proper place."

4. They believe wealth is god's reward for hard work and a moral life, while poverty is god's punishment for laziness and sin (once again, Jesus doesn't not figure in this calculation).

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Response to Nitram (Reply #9)

Fri Jul 7, 2017, 10:26 AM

27. "picture perfect family"?

Surely you jest? Ivanka has had numerous surgical procedures on her face. The "boys" Beavis and Butthead are animal killers, and look like Nazis. None has held a real job, and would not know how to work hard. All are involved in crooked business deals. It will ALL be exposed before too long.

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Response to Scarsdale (Reply #27)

Fri Jul 7, 2017, 11:40 AM

45. We have a different understanding of the phrase 'picture perfect.'

To me it means looks good on the outside, but is rotten inside.

"picture perfect This phrase alludes to the idealized settings and composition of wedding photographs, in which every detail is managed to obtain a perfect result." You know, like the godawful family portraits in the Gold McTrump Mansion.

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Response to Scarsdale (Reply #27)

Fri Jul 7, 2017, 12:06 PM

48. The Trump boys never noticed any military recruiting stations in their state considering how much th

The Trump boys never noticed any military recruiting stations in their state considering how much they like to shoot.

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Response to keithbvadu2 (Reply #48)

Sat Jul 8, 2017, 02:19 AM

101. Avoiding military service is a Trump family tradition...

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Response to Rollo (Reply #101)

Sat Jul 8, 2017, 09:41 AM

107. The Romney boys considered riding on daddy's campaign bus the equivalent of military service.

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Response to babylonsister (Original post)

Fri Jul 7, 2017, 09:21 AM

10. Some of the most vile people I've known professed to be christians.

I stopped going to church (only reason I went was because my parents made us kids go) when I turned 16 because of something that happened to me by a church member.

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Response to bearssoapbox (Reply #10)

Fri Jul 7, 2017, 12:29 PM

57. There is nothing about Christianity

that magically transforms its practitioners into good people. You're just as likely to find vile people in a church as anywhere else.

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Response to Mariana (Reply #57)

Fri Jul 7, 2017, 01:01 PM

61. So true

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Response to Mariana (Reply #57)

Fri Jul 7, 2017, 02:46 PM

71. Exactly. So true.

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Response to Mariana (Reply #57)

Fri Jul 7, 2017, 09:10 PM

92. Perhaps more likely

Organized religion allows and encourages even the most vile people to feel morally superior to everyone else.

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Response to babylonsister (Original post)

Fri Jul 7, 2017, 09:22 AM

11. I Remember All Those

So called Christian Republicans when Bill Clinton was president saying if you cheat on your wife you will cheat on your country.

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Response to videohead5 (Reply #11)

Fri Jul 7, 2017, 10:28 AM

28. Yes, but

when a man is as repulsive as tRump, they applaud him having numerous (gold diggers) consorting with him. Women chased Clinton, tRump has to bribe his women.

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Response to videohead5 (Reply #11)

Fri Jul 7, 2017, 10:31 AM

29. Yep. GOP hypocrisy is

staggering, to say the least.

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Response to babylonsister (Original post)

Fri Jul 7, 2017, 09:23 AM

12. Many white evangelicals are actually white supremacists

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Response to JI7 (Reply #12)

Fri Jul 7, 2017, 10:48 AM

31. This

One Evangelical I know said, "Everyone has some larceny in his heart." And he is one who believes that Jesus was white as the driven snow.

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Response to padfun (Reply #31)

Fri Jul 7, 2017, 12:08 PM

50. What color/race was Jesus? It depends on whose wall his picture is hanging.

What color/race was Jesus? It depends on whose wall his picture is hanging.

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Response to JI7 (Reply #12)

Fri Jul 7, 2017, 04:37 PM

79. Yes, the KKK was "christian".

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Response to babylonsister (Original post)

Fri Jul 7, 2017, 09:24 AM

13. Ken Burns

is a national treasure!

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Response to babylonsister (Original post)

Fri Jul 7, 2017, 09:25 AM

14. One word: Abortion. Evangelicals and RCs will overlook ANY SIN or CRIME** to support a Republican

 

politician because of the Party's (hypocritical, because please, Republican women....) stance on abortion.

Moreover, in the case of the Evangelicals, who are Protestant or off-shoots thereof, there's the whole "Protestant Work Ethic" which perforce scorns any help from the government along with those who need it. If you're well-off, it's because God has blessed you; if you're not,.....more disdain!

**Including treason, as we are witnessing.

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Response to babylonsister (Original post)

Fri Jul 7, 2017, 09:28 AM

15. Since I live in the south ,

 

Honestly imo those voters that are educated , just want the tax cut.. the mask is off 100% with trump as president no one can define him ..

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Response to Mojoe31 (Reply #15)

Fri Jul 7, 2017, 09:48 AM

18. Welcome to DU. n/t

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Response to Mojoe31 (Reply #15)

Fri Jul 7, 2017, 10:06 AM

20. Welcome aboard, Mojoe31

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Response to Mojoe31 (Reply #15)

Fri Jul 7, 2017, 11:11 AM

34. Welcome to DU!!

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Response to Mojoe31 (Reply #15)

Fri Jul 7, 2017, 12:06 PM

49. But education, while correlated to wealth does not necessarily mean rich

I am educated. My wife and I are professionals and while we are not wealthy, we make a decent income. Trump's tax plan would raise our income about 0.1% according to the Tax Policy Center. You really do not see any significant savings until you are earning $500,000 dollars a year. I would say that these "educated" people you talk about, unless they are very rich (making 500k or over per year), are actually quite ignorant and dumb because they are not going to see any tax cut, but they will see a significant reduction in the public services that make American society relatively livable.

Trump is deliberately vague like Reagan, but without any of the folksy charm. This allows people to pour into him whatever their core values are. For White Christians, and fundamentalists of any stripe, they see a re-establishment of the primacy of "Christianity without question" like it was in the good ole days. Even though Trump does not care one wit about Christianity or Christian principles, he talks about the subject using words that they recognize and respond to.

People who are driven by racial animosity and support White Supremacy also see Trump as an ally and advocate. In this situation, there is actually some validity to their view, unlike the delusional Christians and "educated" (but not wealthy) tax cut seekers. Trump is a bigot and a racist. He believes in eugenics (mostly in the superiority of his own genes, but his genes are white) so he speaks to supporters who want the "old order" of things re-established.

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Response to Mojoe31 (Reply #15)

Fri Jul 7, 2017, 12:14 PM

53. +1000

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Response to babylonsister (Original post)

Fri Jul 7, 2017, 09:44 AM

16. It's because he is most like them,

in demeanor, intellect, speech...so they can relate to him.

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Response to babylonsister (Original post)

Fri Jul 7, 2017, 09:48 AM

17. He reminds them of their pastor

and the other pastors on tv.

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Response to greymattermom (Reply #17)

Fri Jul 7, 2017, 10:53 AM

33. Exactly!

Please see my post below. Thanks.

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Response to babylonsister (Original post)

Fri Jul 7, 2017, 10:01 AM

19. They've crafted a narrative specifically for this.

To the evangelicals, Trump is the billionaire who graciously gave up his comfy lifestyle to take on the burden of running for president, subjecting himself to the incredible criticism and assault from our "corrupt" media. It meshes well with the Jesus myth, so they lap it right up.

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Response to trotsky (Reply #19)

Fri Jul 7, 2017, 01:45 PM

65. Many also subscribe to the so-called "Prosperity Gospel"

It boils down to, if god favors you, he will make you wealthy. If you are not wealthy, then god does not favor you. Straight back to seventeenth-century Puritan codswallop.

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Response to lapislzi (Reply #65)

Fri Jul 7, 2017, 04:15 PM

76. That is also true.

And of course so is the corollary: if you are wealthy, god obviously favors you.

Apparently these loyal sheep have no idea that people can come by an enormous amount of money by stealing and cheating.

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Response to trotsky (Reply #19)

Sat Jul 8, 2017, 04:19 PM

109. Plus

Evangelicals are used to being told what to do by a powerful authority figure--their church/pastor/Buy-Bull, and following an absolutist view of the world, in which they of course are right and everyone else is going to hell.

Hence, they are already programmed to fall in line with fascism and an authoritarian leader. And to not exercise their atrophied critical thinking skills when it comes to assessing actual policy matters. Hence, they are A-OK with wrecking their healthcare, stealing Social Security and Medicare, etc. because the dear leader says it's OK.



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Response to babylonsister (Original post)

Fri Jul 7, 2017, 10:12 AM

21. They don't care.

They don't care he's not Christ-like, they don't care what he does or says, they don't care whether anyone thinks they're hypocrites or not. In fact, they love it when people like Ken Burns go to pieces over them. If intellectuals or liberals are mad, then they feel like they're doing the right thing. It's that simple.

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Response to WhiskeyGrinder (Reply #21)

Fri Jul 7, 2017, 10:16 AM

24. Supreme Court

 

That's pretty much the crux of it.

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Response to WhiskeyGrinder (Reply #21)

Fri Jul 7, 2017, 11:31 AM

42. That is the stage of de-evolution this country is now at

Republicans USED to scream about their PRINCIPLES and their ginned up frame of trying to bring the country back to its constitutional founding. High minded in their simple way, and complete bullshit, but they did "stand for something."

As you noted, where are today, it is just about pissing off liberals.

Nothing else.

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Response to babylonsister (Original post)

Fri Jul 7, 2017, 10:14 AM

22. Transcript of the interview with The Daily Beast. . .

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Response to DinahMoeHum (Reply #22)

Sat Jul 8, 2017, 10:02 AM

108. +1

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Response to babylonsister (Original post)

Fri Jul 7, 2017, 10:15 AM

23. Supreme Court

 

“Even if people don’t like me, they have to vote for me. They have no choice,” Trump said, for example, on August 2 in Virginia. “Even if you can’t stand Donald Trump, you think Donald Trump is the worst, you’re going to vote for me. You know why? Justices of the Supreme Court.”

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Response to babylonsister (Original post)

Fri Jul 7, 2017, 10:22 AM

26. They're playing a very long game.

 

Legislatively they're getting exactly what they want right now, and with the SC potentially swinging hard right over the next few years, they're willing to ignore their principles re Trump in exchange for what they likely see as the greater good. I hate them.

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Response to Kentonio (Reply #26)

Fri Jul 7, 2017, 11:38 AM

43. This is exactly the reason I hate them as well.

What Mitch McConnell did to Obama was essentially giving the middle finger to democracy. They don't care that we have a president who's the biggest asshole on the planet and knowingly colluded with a hostile foreign entity intent on destroying us. They want to erase decades, even a century of progress going after SCOTUS. Fuck them all.

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Response to babylonsister (Original post)

Fri Jul 7, 2017, 10:31 AM

30. Don't forget the "forgiveness" part..

You can do any heinous, cruel, evil thing as long as five minutes before you die, you repent...

So, all sins are absolvable. Easy Peasy.

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Response to babylonsister (Original post)

Fri Jul 7, 2017, 10:50 AM

32. Prof. George Lakoff does a great job explaining

"Conservative moral values arise from what I call the Strict Father Family.

In this family model, father knows best. He decides right and wrong. He has the ultimate authority to make sure his children and his spouse do what he says, because what he says is right. Many conservative spouses accept this worldview, uphold the father’s authority, and are strict in those realms of family life that they control.
....

What if they don’t prosper? That means they are not disciplined, and therefore cannot be moral, and so deserve their poverty. In this conservative view, the poor are seen as lazy and undeserving while the rich deserve their wealth. Responsibility is thus taken to be personal responsibility, not social responsibility. What you become is only up to you, not society. You are responsible for yourself, not for others.

The Conservative Moral Hierarchy

The strict father logic extends further. The basic idea is that authority is justified by morality (the strict father version), and that, in a world ordered by nature, there should be (and traditionally has been) a moral hierarchy in which those who have traditionally dominated should dominate.

Why do conservatives love Trump (who harms them) and hate healthcare (which helps them)? It makes more sense when you consider the conservative moral hierarcy.

The Conservative Moral Hierarchy:
• God above Man
• Man above Nature
• The Disciplined (Strong) above the Undisciplined (Weak)
• The Rich above the Poor
• Employers above Employees
• Adults above Children
• Western culture above other cultures
• America above other countries
• Men above Women
• Whites above Nonwhites
• Christians above non-Christians
• Straights above Gays

Sound familiar?

On the whole, conservative policies flow from the Strict Father worldview and this hierarchy. Trump is an extreme case (he wants to be the ultimate strict father), though very much in line with conservative policies of the Republican party.


Much more...

https://georgelakoff.com/2017/07/01/two-questions-about-trump-and-republicans-that-stump-progressives/

Doesn't this sound EXACTLY like what is preached in conservative churches?



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Response to Duppers (Reply #32)

Fri Jul 7, 2017, 11:17 AM

37. wow. nails it - n/t

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Response to Locrian (Reply #37)

Fri Jul 7, 2017, 11:27 AM

40. Doesn't it though!

Thanks for reading.


That whole article is very insightful...a bit long tho. I copied it for my files a few days ago.



George Lakoff is retired as Distinguished Professor of Cognitive Science and Linguistics at the UC Berkeley and is now Director of the Center for the Neural Mind & Society (cnms.berkeley.edu).

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Response to Duppers (Reply #40)

Fri Jul 7, 2017, 11:54 AM

47. I really like Lakoff...

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Response to Locrian (Reply #47)

Fri Jul 7, 2017, 07:42 PM

85. Finally read that 2016 article. Thanks.

It seems as if we're fighting 2000+ years of subconscious programming
thorough religious indoctrination.

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Response to Duppers (Reply #32)

Fri Jul 7, 2017, 12:32 PM

59. Excellent analysis

Sounds like most Rethugs I know, even if its unspoken. Poor people get what they deserve because they are lazy, weak, and just want to feed off Rethug money.

It bears repeating:
When a Democrat climbs the rungs of a ladder, he pulls others up behind him when he gets to the top. A Rethug pulls the ladder up behind him.

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Response to Bayard (Reply #59)

Fri Jul 7, 2017, 03:09 PM

72. Thank you!

It does sound like most RWingers I know too.




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Response to babylonsister (Original post)

Fri Jul 7, 2017, 11:11 AM

35. KnR for Ken Burns

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Response to babylonsister (Original post)

Fri Jul 7, 2017, 11:15 AM

36. It's Not About The POTUS Being Like Christ

They don't care about that, as others have said, and that's quite obvious. That's just some happy bullshit they sell to the rubes when it works.

I agree with regards to abortion, SC, etc., but I think it's a simple matter of power. They want to be in charge and they don't care what type of scum they use as a conduit.

Somehow, the stinking right has managed to claim patriotism and Jesus for itself, despite the fact that both concepts as you see them from these people are not only completely false, but the exact opposite of what they actually are. Patriotism is not about 'fuck anyone who doesn't believe what I do.' Republican Jesus is nowhere to be found in the bible.

If nothing else, I do think the cynicism of all of this is being unveiled to people who may not have noticed it before. These people are not Christian and they are not patriots. They are sinners, to borrow a biblical term and they are traitors in many cases.

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Response to babylonsister (Original post)

Fri Jul 7, 2017, 11:18 AM

38. Burns has a new 18-hour documentary coming out

I believe it is in September. It covers the defining event for my generation who grew up in the60s: The Vietnam War.

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Response to babylonsister (Original post)

Fri Jul 7, 2017, 11:24 AM

39. Jesus didn't preach bigotry and racism. Trump does.

Aside from their unshakable belief in their white Jesus, (most) fundamentalists believe that being white makes them superior to those of other races. Everything from slavery, to Trump's Muslim ban, to his "Mexican rapists" tells us about the hatreds they harbor. Some even question if Jews are white.

Fundamentalists are a large portion of Trump voters. And if they actually read their bibles, without some money-grubbing preacher interpreting it for them, they might feel a bit a shame.

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Response to Cyrano (Reply #39)

Fri Jul 7, 2017, 09:20 PM

93. Christianity most certainly does

The very best you can say about Christianity, including the teachings of Jesus, was it was indifferent to bigotry and racism. Slavery, homophobia, xenophobia, and sexism were well tolerated, if not encouraged. Jesus also instructed his disciples not to go to the gentiles.

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Response to Major Nikon (Reply #93)

Sat Jul 8, 2017, 01:11 AM

99. The " teachings of Jesus" are it. Anything else is Paulism and history.

 

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Response to WinkyDink (Reply #99)

Sat Jul 8, 2017, 01:53 AM

100. Paul was a fraud and a charlatan

But were it not for him, nobody would know who Christ was.

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Response to Major Nikon (Reply #100)

Sat Jul 8, 2017, 04:53 AM

103. Kind of like an ancient Col. Tom Parker.

 

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Response to babylonsister (Original post)

Fri Jul 7, 2017, 11:38 AM

44. the thumb sucking in the manger....

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Response to babylonsister (Original post)

Fri Jul 7, 2017, 12:12 PM

51. Political Christians rather than Christians of faith.

Political Christians rather than Christians of faith.

They support Trump who says he is so perfect that he does not need Christ or his forgiveness.

Like today's evangelical/religious right supporters, Trump is a Political Christian, not a Christian of faith.

Evangelicals/religious right are easily able to spin their beliefs for political expediency.

The Donald who does not have to ask Jesus for forgiveness.

Trump: Drink my little wine, have my little cracker

http://www.cnn.com/videos/politics/2015/08/13/donald-trump-religion-serfaty-dnt-erin.cnn

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Response to babylonsister (Original post)

Fri Jul 7, 2017, 12:14 PM

52. Trump threw the moneychangers into the temple.

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Response to babylonsister (Original post)

Fri Jul 7, 2017, 12:16 PM

55. Jesus once cursed a fig-tree that had wronged him. And Trump is paranoid.

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Response to babylonsister (Original post)

Fri Jul 7, 2017, 12:28 PM

56. Trump is a tool for the Fundies to use to achieve their goals

Fundies are very forgiving to those who advance their agenda.

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Response to Kaleva (Reply #56)

Fri Jul 7, 2017, 12:33 PM

60. Hey...I was going to post the same.

Their real guy is in the bull pen. Then we will see bills passing at a record speed. How much longer to the midterms?

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Response to babylonsister (Original post)

Fri Jul 7, 2017, 12:31 PM

58. I think the fundies - or at least the ones who believe in blond Jesus - have convinced

themselves that Don is the second coming. I suspect the palms of their pastors have been sufficiently greased to make sure the adoration of Dear Leader remains strong.

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Response to babylonsister (Original post)

Fri Jul 7, 2017, 01:31 PM

62. The current hoard of demons who would call themselves Christian

are more likely aligned with their antiChrist.

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Response to babylonsister (Original post)

Fri Jul 7, 2017, 01:43 PM

64. K & R!

Love Ken Burns and PBS.

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Response to babylonsister (Original post)

Fri Jul 7, 2017, 02:08 PM

67. Completely pointless to appeal to cognitive reasoning: 45 represents their resentment

of a world they don't understand and don't even want to.

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Response to babylonsister (Original post)

Fri Jul 7, 2017, 02:31 PM

68. They ... don't ... care.

All they care about is their hate.

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Response to babylonsister (Original post)

Fri Jul 7, 2017, 02:35 PM

69. Remember

It's all about the Supreme Court, abortion & making this a Christian nation by their standards. They were promised Pence in the White House if they voted for trump. Just like we were reminded it's all about the Supreme Court, but those on the left ignored the warning.

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Response to babylonsister (Original post)

Fri Jul 7, 2017, 03:53 PM

73. I just posted on FaceBook...

I have noticed that the RW bullshit, worshiping Trump, has picked up again on Social Media.

This should give them pause for just a second.

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Response to babylonsister (Original post)

Fri Jul 7, 2017, 03:57 PM

74. They don't want Jesus as a leader

Republican Christians know they don't want Jesus as a leader. They want some big bad guy out of the Old Testament. Their Christianity isn't about Jesus being a good guy, except for his saving their souls.

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Response to babylonsister (Original post)

Fri Jul 7, 2017, 04:00 PM

75. You forgot one thing on why evangelicals love Trump

He's very likely to bring about nuclear war aka Armageddon/end times.

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Response to babylonsister (Original post)

Fri Jul 7, 2017, 04:29 PM

77. Great question, Ken Burns.

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Response to babylonsister (Original post)

Fri Jul 7, 2017, 04:57 PM

80. MANY MANSIONS

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Response to babylonsister (Original post)

Fri Jul 7, 2017, 05:09 PM

82. Reading this, it just struck me: CULTS are similar to how Trump is. Cults are based in religion.

Lusting after female relatives, having control over women and children, control freaks in general, no tolerance for criticism or not obeying the cult leader, worshiping in zeal, the masses do the worshiping - the leader not so much, the leader is often a criminal or bordering on one, the leader is authoritarian.

Cults attract religious zealots & followers who don't think independently and need a strong leader to tell them what to do. The followers blindly follow and rarely question.

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Response to Honeycombe8 (Reply #82)

Fri Jul 7, 2017, 05:23 PM

84. It's why I refer to the Orange Fucksicle's followers as Branch Trumpvidians

 

They are so goddamn cult like in their following of said Orange Fucksicle.

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Response to babylonsister (Original post)

Fri Jul 7, 2017, 05:17 PM

83. Define irony.

A group of self righteous fundamentalist Christians who worship a guy who has literally broken all 10 commandments.

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Response to babylonsister (Original post)

Fri Jul 7, 2017, 07:52 PM

86. Umm, two legs?

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Response to babylonsister (Original post)

Fri Jul 7, 2017, 08:42 PM

89. Come, guys.

The level of anti-Christian vitriol above is alarming. Not all Christians are right wingers. Some Christians - like me - come to our liberal political leanings because of Jesus' teachings. I do not understand how a Christian can read the Sermon on the Mount and be a right winger.

There is no clear agreement among Christians for the meaning of words like "evangelical." Under the broader definition, Christians like Jimmy Carter (and I) are evangelicals. When the posts lump all Christians - or even all evangelicals - in the same disparaging category, they unfairly, paint with way-on too broad a brush. DUers would not so blithely disparage all Moslems, or all Jews,or all Buddhists or all atheists.

There is no question that there are some despicable people who claim to be Christian - just like there are bad people who are Moslems, Jews, Buddhists or atheists. The problem with the Church is that it is chock full of people and people will consistently behave like people.

I am no snowflake. My feelings are not hurt by anti-Christian posts. My alarm comes from what the mindset shown by such posts can do to the party.

The Democratic Party cannot hope to ever be successful on a nation-wide basis if Christians are not welcome in the Party. The Democratic Party needs to reach out to Christians, not denigrate them.

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Response to babylonsister (Original post)

Sat Jul 8, 2017, 02:24 AM

102. The part that gave them the supreme court

And hoping to make abortion illegal and the bible in public schools.

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Response to babylonsister (Original post)

Sat Jul 8, 2017, 06:19 AM

106. "The part that's not black like Obama"

Just calling 'em like I see 'em- 'cuz I grew up amongst 'em.

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