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Mon Jul 3, 2017, 04:12 PM

Why Fat-Shaming Is Wrong.

When people fat-shame others, they make excuses that if the person being shamed didn't want to be shamed, they would just lose weight. And they say that fat-shaming is good because being fat is unhealthy.

The reality, however, is that it is impossible to lose weight, and that being fat is not unhealthy.

That may go against everything you have been told to believe, but it happens to be the truth.

Fat-shaming is no different than racism, sexism, or homophobia. When you fat-shame someone, you are shaming them for something they cannot control. When you define fat as "bad" and thin as "good", you are defining one group of people as superior to another group based on nothing more than the genes they were born with.

Here is why it is impossible to lose weight:

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/wonk/wp/2015/05/04/why-diets-dont-actually-work-according-to-a-researcher-who-has-studied-them-for-decades

https://www.nytimes.com/2016/05/08/opinion/sunday/why-you-cant-lose-weight-on-a-diet.html

And here is why being "overweight" or "obese" is not, in fact, unhealthy, according to decades of scientific research:

http://www.nytimes.com/2013/01/03/opinion/our-imaginary-weight-problem.html

https://qz.com/550527/obesity-paradox-scientists-now-think-that-being-overweight-is-sometimes-good-for-your-health/

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Arrow 45 replies Author Time Post
Reply Why Fat-Shaming Is Wrong. (Original post)
athena Jul 2017 OP
NRaleighLiberal Jul 2017 #1
True Dough Jul 2017 #5
athena Jul 2017 #7
True Dough Jul 2017 #15
athena Jul 2017 #17
True Dough Jul 2017 #20
athena Jul 2017 #22
True Dough Jul 2017 #27
True Dough Jul 2017 #29
Snackshack Jul 2017 #31
johnp3907 Jul 2017 #2
Loki Liesmith Jul 2017 #3
MFM008 Jul 2017 #4
athena Jul 2017 #6
MFM008 Jul 2017 #8
athena Jul 2017 #12
MFM008 Jul 2017 #23
LakeArenal Jul 2017 #9
MFM008 Jul 2017 #10
TBA Jul 2017 #11
Doodley Jul 2017 #13
ProfessorGAC Jul 2017 #14
NobodyHere Jul 2017 #16
Binkie The Clown Jul 2017 #18
athena Jul 2017 #19
Hombre74 Jul 2017 #21
Binkie The Clown Jul 2017 #26
athena Jul 2017 #36
Binkie The Clown Jul 2017 #43
no_hypocrisy Jul 2017 #24
Towlie Jul 2017 #25
athena Jul 2017 #30
Towlie Jul 2017 #33
Not Ruth Jul 2017 #28
Stuart G Jul 2017 #32
Towlie Jul 2017 #35
athena Jul 2017 #41
Stuart G Jul 2017 #44
cyclonefence Jul 2017 #34
athena Jul 2017 #38
cyclonefence Jul 2017 #42
Blue_Warrior Jul 2017 #37
NurseJackie Jul 2017 #39
Warren DeMontague Jul 2017 #40
TexasBushwhacker Jul 2017 #45

Response to athena (Original post)

Mon Jul 3, 2017, 04:18 PM

1. Just one minor quibble

"The reality, however, is that it is impossible to lose weight"

It does require a significant life style change and commitment, not simple diet. It is not easy to lose, and not easy to maintain - but not impossible.

I am 60 lbs lighter than I was 7 years ago - lost it and maintained the loss.

I totally agree with your statements about the inappropriateness of fat shaming....

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Response to NRaleighLiberal (Reply #1)

Mon Jul 3, 2017, 04:23 PM

5. Seconded, on both counts

Although there may be the occasional individual who has a bona fide medical condition that prevents them from losing weight, the vast majority of people are able to do so via will power, exercise and consumption choices.

Regardless, humiliating anyone due to their physical appearance is still unacceptable behavior, even if that person represents the antithesis of your political beliefs.

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Response to True Dough (Reply #5)

Mon Jul 3, 2017, 04:29 PM

7. You didn't bother to read the links I posted, did you?

They specifically address "will power, exercise and consumption choices". The statement you made is wrong, as demonstrated by the links in my OP.

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Response to athena (Reply #7)

Mon Jul 3, 2017, 05:18 PM

15. I gave them a cursory read

and I stand by my statement that I believe only a small minority of individuals are faced with physiological conditions that make it impossible to lose weight, and, for some, it's much harder than others, I'm sure.

I could find a thousand or more links that argue will power, exercise and consumption choices do indeed lead to weight loss through demonstrable, quantifiable statistics and studies. So I disagree with the links you posted.

Regardless, I'm anti-"fat shaming." No need for it at all.

EDIT: And being above the "ideal weight" for a person's gender, height, etc. (or "body mass index," if you prefer) is often not a problem. I believe that. However, when an individual becomes morbidly obese, health problems often ensue, such as diabetes, high blood pressure and heart conditions.

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Response to True Dough (Reply #15)

Mon Jul 3, 2017, 05:22 PM

17. 95% of diets fail within five years.

You can find that statistic everywhere. Here is one reference:

http://www.slate.com/articles/health_and_science/medical_examiner/2015/03/diets_do_not_work_the_thin_evidence_that_losing_weight_makes_you_healthier.html

"If youíre one of the 45 million Americans who plan to go on a diet this year, Iíve got one word of advice for you: Donít.

"Youíll likely lose weight in the short term, but your chance of keeping if off for five years or more is about the same as your chance of surviving metastatic lung cancer: 5 percent. And when you do gain back the weight, everyone will blame you. Including you.

"This isnít breaking news; doctors know the holy trinity of obesity treatmentsódiet, exercise, and medicationódonít work. They know yo-yo dieting is linked to heart disease, insulin resistance, higher blood pressure, inflammation, and, ironically, long-term weight gain. Still, they push the same ineffective treatments, insisting theyíll make you not just thinner but healthier.

"In reality, 97 percent of dieters regain everything they lost and then some within three years. Obesity research fails to reflect this truth because it rarely follows people for more than 18 months. This makes most weight-loss studies disingenuous at best and downright deceptive at worst."

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Response to athena (Reply #17)

Mon Jul 3, 2017, 06:14 PM

20. Conventional and fad "diets" are part of the problem

Yes, keeping the weight off is a real challenge. But this is more about permanent lifestyle choices. It should NOT be approached as a miserable one year existence, depriving yourself of all of your past "guilty indulgences" but instead an entirely different way of going about eating and exercising permanently.

Here's a link from Psychology Today showing that it is doable for some people:


"It's from a recently published study of something called the Look AHEAD trial where Tom Wadden and colleagues studied those factors associated with long term weight loss success. The factors? Paying attention to intake, exercising, and applying the education they received from their expert research team. And would you take a look at that graph! By year 4, of the folks who'd lost more than 10% of their weight in the first year, some did indeed gain it back, but 42.2% kept off nearly 18% of their presenting weight for the full 4 years! In fact they kept off virtually all of their year one losses. Moreover, looking at all comers of the trial and not just the folks who lost a pile in year one, nearly 25% of all participants maintained a 4 year loss greater than 10% of their initial weight.

So it is indeed doable, but ultimately weight loss and maintenance require lifelong effort, therefore if you don't like the effort required, you're not going to keep it up and your weight's going to return."

https://www.psychologytoday.com/blog/traumatic-dieting/201201/are-you-really-doomed-regain-your-lost-weight

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Response to True Dough (Reply #20)

Mon Jul 3, 2017, 06:31 PM

22. That study was halted because it showed no reduction in mortality.

It was a study of diabetes patients, and it showed that the modest weight loss that some of the participants were able to sustain was not, in fact, able to reduce their mortality.

http://www.medscape.com/viewarticle/772429

" I think our patients did a fantastic job, and we were able to see an 8.6% reduction in body weight in the first year. That was not entirely sustained. During the next year, that weight loss changed to only about 5% of their body weight, but that was maintained through the duration of the trial to 11 years. We were able to show that we could produce modest weight loss and improve physical activity over time in these individuals with type 2 diabetes. However, what we did not show was a reduction in cardiovascular events and death."

See also:
https://www.diabetesselfmanagement.com/blog/the-mystery-of-look-ahead/

"And sure enough, Dr. Wing is reporting Look AHEAD as a success, because it 'found that people who are obese and have Type 2 diabetes can lose weight and maintain their weight loss with a lifestyle intervention.'

"This is a highly misleading claim. At year four, subjects had gained back roughly half of their relatively modest weight loss. For a 200 pound person, an 8% loss (average for the group) is 16 pounds, and half of that was regained.

"The intervention was far more intense than anything people can do outside of a scientific study. In the real world, nobody is seeing health professionals every week for a year to lose weight.

"And despite this intense support, they didnít lose much, and the rates of cardiovascular problems and deaths were the same for both groups."

Please explain why people must be shamed to starve themselves to fit into a weight category *you* want them to fit just because they happen to have been born with genes that make them fat, when there are not even health benefits that result from such starvation.

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Response to athena (Reply #22)

Mon Jul 3, 2017, 06:59 PM

27. You're so driven to be right that you're making an enemy out of someone who isn't one

Regardless of whether or not we agree on whether weight loss can be accomplished long-term for most individuals (and we should be able to agree that obesity poses significant health risks in itself), for you to post this:

"Please explain why people must be shamed to starve themselves to fit into a weight category *you* want them to fit just because they happen to have been born with genes that make them fat, when there are not even health benefits that result from such starvation."

is way out of line. I have stated twice prior to this post that fat shaming is unacceptable. It's irrelevant whether it's a person's choice to be substantially overweight or whether it's genetics, I have in no way condoned humiliating or shaming someone due to their body composition.


Anyway, another study showing that it's doable for some people:

"Results: Twenty-nine studies met the inclusion criteria. Successful very-low-energy diets (VLEDs) were associated with significantly greater weight-loss maintenance than were successful hypoenergetic balanced diets (HBDs) at all years of follow-up. The percentage of individuals at 4 or 5 y of follow-up for VLEDs and HBDs were 55.4% and 79.7%, respectively. The results for VLEDs and HBDs, respectively, were as follows: weight-loss maintenance, 7.1 kg (95% CI: 6.1, 8.1 kg) and 2.0 (1.5, 2.5) kg; percentage weight-loss maintenance, 29% (25%, 33%) and 17% (13%, 22%); and reduced weight, 6.6% (5.7%, 7.5%) and 2.1% (1.6%, 2.7%). Weight-loss maintenance did not differ significantly between women and men. Six studies reported that groups who exercised more had significantly greater weight-loss maintenance than did those who exercised less.

Conclusions: Five years after completing structured weight-loss programs, the average individual maintained a weight loss of >3 kg and a reduced weight of >3% of initial body weight. After VLEDs or weight loss of ≥20 kg, individuals maintained significantly more weight loss than after HBDs or weight losses of <10 kg."

http://ajcn.nutrition.org/content/74/5/579.long

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Response to True Dough (Reply #27)

Mon Jul 3, 2017, 07:02 PM

29. And just because I believe long-term weight loss is achievable for many individuals

it doesn't mean that I'd have no tolerance or patience for those who choose not to lose weight or cannot lose weight. It's up to each person to decide for themselves how they live their lives. I respect that. But some people do desire to change their lifestyle and they do it successfully. People shouldn't be told up front that it can't be done. It's a defeatist attitude and a self-fulfilling prophesy in some cases.

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Response to NRaleighLiberal (Reply #1)

Mon Jul 3, 2017, 07:22 PM

31. Agreed.

It is very difficult but not impossible. Life style change is the key to it.

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Response to athena (Original post)

Mon Jul 3, 2017, 04:20 PM

2. Thank you for this.

Very sad that this is needed here.

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Response to athena (Original post)

Mon Jul 3, 2017, 04:22 PM

3. Questionable research

The so-called obesity paradox is plausibly explained by a number of factors, including pre-fatality weight loss. The links contained in this piece are quite dishonest on this point.

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Response to athena (Original post)

Mon Jul 3, 2017, 04:22 PM

4. I'm sorry

I still disagree when it comes to he who will never be named.
I've lost 120 pounds. I'm 58.
It took weight loss surgery but it can be done.
It's difficult. I know.

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Response to MFM008 (Reply #4)

Mon Jul 3, 2017, 04:27 PM

6. No one should be shamed into having surgery to change their weight.

I am very sorry that you had to go through that.

By the way, weight loss surgery doesn't work on everyone. Chris Christie has had weight loss surgery.

Fat-shaming Trump is wrong because it does absolutely nothing to Trump but makes other fat people feel bad about themselves. There are plenty of other ways to attack Trump.

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Response to athena (Reply #6)

Mon Jul 3, 2017, 04:34 PM

8. No one shamed me

At 58 my health was urgent.
2 knee replacement surgery, heart issues. Back problems....
Multiple surgeries to hold my foot bones together
Inflammations.
I was never overweight until 1992 and began to take specific medications. I put on 200 pounds.

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Response to MFM008 (Reply #8)

Mon Jul 3, 2017, 04:42 PM

12. OK.

It seems like your case was beyond "overweight" and "obese", to the point where the weight does become unhealthy. That's not what I'm talking about in my OP.

I am glad that the surgery was successful on you.

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Response to athena (Reply #12)

Mon Jul 3, 2017, 06:37 PM

23. Thank you

So far so good. I
t's still not easy even with surgery.

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Response to athena (Original post)

Mon Jul 3, 2017, 04:34 PM

9. I have dengenerative bones...

Over the years I have gained a lot of weight... Dr. says almost every joint will probably need to be replaced.. So far two hips, and soon a knee, followed by the other knee.. I belong to a gym and go 2 to 3 times a week. I am also in physical therapy... This is all for info... I wouldn't trade mine for anyone else.

At one time I told the doctor, that I hoped surgery would make me be able to stand up straight and if I walked again I it would be sprinkles on my cupcake.. Well, I do walk and it took nearly two years to get here..

The other day I was stooping down to work on some flowers in my garden and a car went by and the driver yelled.....
"Hey Fat Ass".. Gee, thanks for letting me know.. I really couldn't tell....

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Response to LakeArenal (Reply #9)

Mon Jul 3, 2017, 04:38 PM

10. My weight loss

Helped save my hips.
My knees I couldn't save.

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Response to athena (Original post)

Mon Jul 3, 2017, 04:39 PM

11. Fat shaming is wrong

Diabetes shaming is wrong. Heart disease shaming is wrong. They are all medical conditions. I hate seeing that shit on this board.

BTW: At this time I do not have the condition of being fat.

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Response to athena (Original post)

Mon Jul 3, 2017, 04:49 PM

13. We all know that if significantly less calories are consumed, weight will be lost.

So, anyone who is obese and putting their health at risk can theoretically lose weight by being on a diet. Yes, some people can turn that around. However, some people just cannot do that. They may eat for comfort. They may be depressed. They cannot break the habit. They may have cravings they cannot control. They may have trouble controlling their sugar levels. They may not have the emotional support they need. In the same way somebody with anorexia or bulimia may be on a downward path they cannot control, mockery is despicable. They need support.

That said, it is unhealthy. You don't see many obese people living into their 80's or 90s. We know that obesity predisposes one to heart disease, diabetes, back and joint problems, cancer and shorter life expectancy, as well as being a drain on healthcare. America has an obesity crisis. Shaming is not the answer, but dealing with all the associated health issues rather than the underlying causes is not the answer either. We cannot pretend that obesity is healthy.

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Response to athena (Original post)

Mon Jul 3, 2017, 04:56 PM

14. And I Disagree

Some people deserve shaming for any and ALL reasons!
Especially silverspoon fat cats who have ZERO empathy for anyone else less fortunate
If they're a fat turd, I refuse to just call them a turd

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Response to athena (Original post)

Mon Jul 3, 2017, 05:19 PM

16. It sounds good in theory

 

But when people start stop judging people based on looks then I'll be onboard.

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Response to athena (Original post)

Mon Jul 3, 2017, 05:50 PM

18. Is smoker shaming wrong? Is ignorance shaming wrong?

Is it wrong to shame someone for being a redneck bigoted Trump lover?

Is it wrong to shame someone for making a bad choice?

Yes, it's clearly wrong to shame someone who has a birth defect, or is born Jewish, or black, or gay, crippled. More than wrong, it's shameful! People who shame others for simply being what they are, are deplorable.

So the question is, is being fat a choice or an unavoidable condition? I guess that depends on who you ask. But I can only speak from my own small sample of observations:

I once worked in a downtown retail store and I watched people walking by the store windows every day. The trim, athletic-looking people were always walking empty-handed, or with a shopping bag. The obese people were always, and I do mean always, walking by with a soft drink in one hand and a donut, or roll, or hamburger, or some other food item in the other hand. So my observation was that it is, indeed, a choice.

Now I may be wrong, but that time when I put on 35 pounds too many, it only took me a few months of prudent eating to take that excess fat off. So for me, at least, it IS a choice. Your mileage may vary. However, the plain fact of biochemistry is that if you eat more calories than you burn you will gain weight, and if you eat fewer calories than you burn you will lose weight. Everything else is an "explanation" of why the laws of physics don't apply in your case.

As for studies, don't forget that the AMA once endorsed smoking as harmless, and possibly even beneficial for some people. But no matter what raw epidemiological data you look at, obese people die younger. The more obese, the younger they die. The truth will set you free, but first it will really piss you off.

And, for the record, I'm not arguing with you. I'm explaining to you why I'm right.

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Response to Binkie The Clown (Reply #18)

Mon Jul 3, 2017, 06:12 PM

19. You should read the links in my OP.

They show that being fat is not a choice. That was the entire point of my post.

I have a Ph.D. in physics. The human body is not like two particles colliding. It's much more complex. When you claim that losing weight is a matter of physics, you are neglecting that the body does not always burn calories at the same rate, and that there are mechanisms in place that make us desire food the more we are starved. In fact, as a trained physicist, I find the misuse of the words "the laws of physics" in this case to be particularly annoying.

By the way, the rest of the assertions in your post are also disproven scientifically in the links I posted.

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Response to athena (Reply #19)

Mon Jul 3, 2017, 06:21 PM

21. Oh

Switched channels I see? And still repeating everything that was pointed out as pseudoscience...

But no worries. I give up. Have a wonderful evening.

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Response to athena (Reply #19)

Mon Jul 3, 2017, 06:55 PM

26. For years and years I tried to quit smoking. They told me it was not a choice it was an addiction.

I struggled with trying to quit time after time after time, without success.

Then one day, sitting in the doctors office with my wife, the doctor told her she had terminal lung cancer. Like me, she was a smoker, but she smoked more that I did. In that instant I actually KNEW the truth. For the first time in my life, I KNEW the truth, and in that very instant, that truth set me free. I never smoked again. I never used the "it's an addiction" excuse again. I didn't struggle to quit. I didn't say "well, I'll go home and think about it". In the very instant that I KNEW the truth, right down to the root of my soul, that truth set me free. In that very instant.

That's what the old saying "the truth will set you free" really means. The instant that you truly KNOW the truth; know it right down to the very depths of your soul, in that instant you will be set free.

As for "The body does not always burn calories in the same way". That implies that you don't always need to eat in the same way. It's still a matter of excess calories input resulting in excess fat building up. If you are not free to choose then you do not yet KNOW the truth that will set you free. And as for academic credentials, I have a Masters in Engineering, and I do understand the laws of physics, at least as far as conservation of mass goes. You simply can't GAIN excess weight without CONSUMING excess weight. Conservation of mass. Laws of physics. Q.E.D.

As for "proven scientifically", Science does not, and never has, dealt in "proof". It deals in evidence, and testing, and possibly falsifying of hypotheses. Nothing, NOTHING, is ever "proven scientifically." As a PHD physicist I would expect that you understand that.

"OBESITY AND MORTALITY. According to the National Institutes of Health, obesity and overweight together are the second leading cause of preventable death in the United States, close behind tobacco use (3). An estimated 300,000 deaths per year are due to the obesity epidemic (57)." That's not "proof", it's data. https://www.wvdhhr.org/bph/oehp/obesity/mortality.htm

I'm sure you understand the difference between proof and data, so don't try to pass off cherry-picked data as "proof".

Obesity is strongly correlated with premature death. Data. Not proof. Data.



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Response to Binkie The Clown (Reply #26)

Mon Jul 3, 2017, 08:01 PM

36. If being overweight were remotely as dangerous as smoking,

you would have a point. But it is not.

There is no such thing as "conservation of mass". If that were the case, E = mc^2 would not be true. There is conservation of energy. If you don't realize that your statements about "excess calories ... resulting in excess fat build up" are a huge oversimplification, then I really don't have any more time left to waste arguing with you. The rate at which different people's bodies use energy to complete a given task is not always the same. Different people don't have the same metabolism rate, and even in one person, the metabolism rate can change depending on what drugs they may be taking and what hormonal conditions they may have.

Some things have indeed been scientifically proven. If nothing were scientifically provable, science would never have been able to advance very far. Try getting an article published in a peer-reviewed journal that argues that Einstein's special theory of relativity is wrong. Or that the Dirac equation is wrong. Or that Newton was wrong in the large-and-slow domain. Or even that the Higgs boson doesn't exist. Just try. Or go to any physicist and tell them that Maxwell's equations have not been "proven" and see if you don't get laughed out of the room.

Congratulations, by the way, on dismissing my scientific credentials. Trump would be proud of you. Because, after all, what good is a Ph.D. in physics? A person who doesn't have it is completely justified in accusing that person of not understanding science.

Your post has indeed led me to find that there is a very recent study that purports to have disproven the "obesity paradox". Even that study shows that the increased mortality as a result of being overweight is slight. In any case, this is just one study that purposefully set out to disprove the "obesity paradox" and needs to be replicated. It has not, for example, controlled for yo-yo dieting. We will see. Here is another recent study, by the way, that supports the "obesity paradox":
http://journals.plos.org/plosone/article?id=10.1371/journal.pone.0171334

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Response to athena (Reply #36)

Mon Jul 3, 2017, 08:47 PM

43. You will find the papers that tell you what you want to hear. That's what I did as a smoker. n/t

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Response to athena (Original post)

Mon Jul 3, 2017, 06:43 PM

24. I gained 40 pounds in 15 years.

I need to see an endrocrinologist.

Tests have shown a high level of thyroid antibodies. Translated: it's like having little Pac Men attacking and neutralizing my thyroid one cell at a time. No thyroid, no metabolism, and instead, weight gain.

I would resent fat shaming for hormone imbalances I can't control easily.

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Response to athena (Original post)

Mon Jul 3, 2017, 06:46 PM

25. "The reality, however, is that it is impossible to lose weight, and that being fat is not unhealthy"

Last edited Mon Jul 3, 2017, 07:40 PM - Edit history (4)

What? If you're that disconnected from reality, why aren't you a Republican?

Since you've abandoned your previous thread, apparently to run away from opposing views, I'll leave this here to make sure you see it:

(Edit: Actually, Athena didn't start that other thread, she only made several posts there. Sorry about the error.)

In the previous thread, Athena wrote:

"It is also much more dangerous to have a fluctuating weight than to have a stable weight that is 'overweight' or 'obese'"

No. It appears that losing weight and keeping it off is the healthiest thing an overweight person can do, followed by "Weight cycling" or "yo-yo dieting", which may introduce some ill effects but is still better than not losing weight at all, followed by not losing weight and simply staying overweight, which is the worst choice.

The main lesson for me was that there's a difference between weight loss and weight watching.

Weight loss is a process that has a beginning and an end. You plan how you're going to achieve weight loss and you stick to your plan until you reach your proper weight. I found that it's better to not worry about the arithmetic of how many pounds you've lost, but to concentrate on higher mathematics - the derivative (rate of change with respect to time) of your weight loss and how long it'll take to reach your planned weight at the rate you're going. Don't settle for losing some impressive-sounding number of pounds if you still weigh more than you should. You're not done yet!

Weight watching, on the other hand, never ends. It requires a total revision of the way you live and it's something you must commit to for the rest of your life, else you'll wind up in the "yo-yo dieting" category, which is synonymous with failure. You need to keep track of your weight and establish total control over it, and be able to honestly boast that you weigh what you want to weigh. The worst thing I'd want to do is reinforce the myth that weight loss is never permanent, and I don't intend to do that.

That's the philosophy that has worked for me for the last five years, and I guess I should thank Athena for her arrogant challenges to me (in the previous thread) because they'll help reinforce my determination and resolve.


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Response to Towlie (Reply #25)

Mon Jul 3, 2017, 07:13 PM

30. That's not my previous thread.

It's funny that you think there is only one person out there who thinks fat-shaming is wrong.

I created a new thread because my point is different and independent from the point femmedem was making.

Given that you ignore all the references I posted and continue to make claims, based on zero evidence, that I am wrong, I don't have further time to waste arguing with you. And you should know that personal attacks only weaken your argument. They show that your position is so weak that you have no choice but to resort to that sort of thing.

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Response to athena (Reply #30)

Mon Jul 3, 2017, 07:38 PM

33. Sorry, I corrected the error. But you know what else is funny?

What else is funny is that in the post you've just responded to I didn't say anything about fat-shaming. I only disputed your bogus claims about weight loss.

I lost 85 pounds five years ago over a period of about 6 months under doctor supervision, and dropped from a BMI of 33.4 to 22.5, which my doctor says is right where I should be. I've kept my weight there for the last five years and am fully confident of keeping it there for the rest of my life.

Even after five years I still marvel and how I can quickly stand without having to grab something nearby and pull myself up. When I lost the weight my high blood pressure dropped to normal and has stayed there ever since. I feel much better than I did and have gotten into physical activities that I wasn't capable of before, and I love how much easier it is to find clothes that fit me.

So don't tell me that "The reality, however, is that it is impossible to lose weight, and that being fat is not unhealthy."

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Response to athena (Original post)

Mon Jul 3, 2017, 07:00 PM

28. I have not read a single link yet, but intend to

 

Very interesting perspective. Thanks.

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Response to athena (Original post)

Mon Jul 3, 2017, 07:27 PM

32. I know a whole lot about this subject, AND THERE IS A LIE A STATEMENT IN OP

...........,"it is impossible to lose weight.....(and keep it off)

No..I did not keep it off for a few months. weeks or a few years. I lost 58 pounds and kept it off for 35 years..and still have that weight off............

How? I changed my attitude toward food as much as possible. In addition, I read everything I could about this subject, attended some meetings of overeating groups, ate differently, tried to eat different foods, eat slower, tried to exercise as much as possible, and so on and on and on and on. It is possible to lose weight and keep it off, but it is very difficult. I still fight it but I threw the scale away in 1982....only get on one at a doctors office...

Weighing close to 220 would have killed me. The weight loss allowed me to live through 7 surgeries of major diseases since 1990 and recover completely. This afternoon, about 3 hours ago, I went for a walk in forest near where I live and walked about a mile and a quarter non stop.

It is possible to lose weight and keep it off, but it is very difficult and requires a change in thought about food and exercise and what we do with time and our lives. I know a lot of people who lost large amounts of weight and kept it off....just like me..so.......get this.....
................. .the sentence..."it is impossible to lose weight"..IS A LIE

......ONE OF THE WORST LIES I HAVE EVER SEEN AT DEMOCRATIC UNDERGROUD..EVER......
_____________________________________________________________________________

also, I will not argue about this...there is nothing to argue..I am proof that statement is a lie. I might add, fat shamming is awful, like the OP says..Fat-Shamming is wrong...I agree completely....and it hurts..and destroys...Nevertheless....it is possible to lose weight and keep it off...not withstanding a couple of research reports ..because I am living proof...., and I know more living proof........

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Response to Stuart G (Reply #32)

Mon Jul 3, 2017, 07:59 PM

35. Good job, Stuart!

I don't recommend throwing your scale away though. I keep my eyes on mine so I can take immediate action when needed.

Another source of inspiration is Penn Jillette. He lost more weight than either of us but we've yet to see if he keeps it off.

By the way, I'm skeptical of his strange-sounding voodoo-like food choices, which seem unusual for a champion of rationality, but it's really all in the calories.

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Response to Stuart G (Reply #32)

Mon Jul 3, 2017, 08:19 PM

41. 3% - 5% of people are able to keep the weight off.

So it is an exaggeration to say that it is "impossible", but just because something is "possible" through near-superhuman effort does not mean it is something that is easily changed. In the end, all the available evidence suggests that one's weight is based on genetics and metabolism.

All the claims in your post are either unsubstantiated or anecdotal. You do not, in fact, know that weight loss is what has kept you alive. I have come across one article that suggests that being overweight is protective in cardiac surgery:
http://circ.ahajournals.org/content/135/9/864

Finally, my post is not in any way giving people an excuse to live in an unhealthy manner. If people want to be healthy, they should exercise, not diet. Exercise is a much more effective way to reduce mortality than diet.

The point of my post is that fat-shaming someone is no different from race-shaming, gender-shaming, or sexual-preference-shaming them. But of course, it is way too easy to ignore that point and pick at details to attack the messenger.

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Response to athena (Reply #41)

Mon Jul 3, 2017, 09:20 PM

44. No...it does not take "superhuman effort" to lose weight..

An individual needs to have knowledge and effort to beat this..
An individual can increase ...metabolism...by living a different life style..and you are totally wrong about......
................diet.................What a person eats, is partially why they are heavy...What I think is that
your information is an explanation why people should not fight the battle...sorry..it is a battle, and an
addiction also....

I was not attacking your points on ........"fat-shaming"...you are totally correct on that..

Research on weight loosing is new. Why are people addicted to certain weight gaining foods in the U.S.A has almost never been looked at. You say what I have written is. "unsubstantiated" Are you calling me a liar?
Do you think what I have written is made up? Have you personally tried to lose weight?...Do you agree that some people have an addiction to certain foods that are very unhealthy?

Here is a book about food addiction

Salt Sugar Fat: How the Food Giants Hooked Us,, Paperback
by Michael Moss

Here is another book about this addiction...very similar..but written by a former Commissioner of the Food and Drug administration...David Kesser.

Doctor David Kessler: Fat Salt Sugar Alter Brain Chemistry, Make Us Eat Junk Food
hit the link below and read about the above book
..from Democratic Underground...Aug 31, 2012

https://www.democraticunderground.com/101640520






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Response to athena (Original post)

Mon Jul 3, 2017, 07:50 PM

34. I lost 85 pounds almost ten years ago and have not regained them.

It wasn't hard, and it was fast. I didn't diet or exercise; I ate the things I liked but not in excess. The key for me was mental or psychological--I got to the place in my head where I was able to do this. I'm convinced I could help anyone lose weight if I had total control over what they ate, but that's not going to do them any good. There are lots of ways to drop pounds fast, but extreme diets--hell, *diets* in general--are impossible to sustain over the long term.

My approach was to go exactly opposite diets. Instead of starting out with lists of what I could and could not eat, I started with a list of what I liked best for breakfast, lunch and dinner. Snacks are for toddlers and insulin-dependent diabetics. I like cereal with fruit and a cup of coffee for breakfast, so I checked the label on my favorite cereal to find out what a "serving" was, and that's how much I put in my bowl every day. I also like to add a couple of tablespoons of slivered almonds to my cereal, and I do not measure the fruit (strawberries, blueberries, raspberries and blackberries), just fill up the bowl. One-percent milk to cover and black coffee.

My lunch and dinner are along the same lines--start with what I like to eat, find out what a normal serving is, and eat it.

But that's by the bye.

I think fat shaming is when you discriminate against a fat person by word or deed. It's not my business why they are fat, how fat they are, whether they're trying to lose weight or not, and I truly don't care.

Making fun of Donald Trump's fat is not something I'm uncomfortable with. If he were glob forbid in the same room as me I as a polite person of course would not make fun of his fat, or his hair, or his long tie. But he is a public figure, "the most powerful man in the world," and he has a history of blatant fat-shaming of the women around him. I do not see anything wrong with giving a hypocrite a dose of his own medicine--in a public manner. If someone were to harangue him privately about his weight, I think that would be fat-shaming.

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Response to cyclonefence (Reply #34)

Mon Jul 3, 2017, 08:08 PM

38. Good for you, but as you say, you didn't actually diet.

Who knows, maybe you were above your set point when you were 85 pounds heavier. I once lost 25 pounds because of a certain medication I was on for several years, to the point where I was almost underweight. When I stopped, I went back to my previous weight. Later, I had to take another medication that made me gain weight, but once again, when the effects wore off, the weight came off. I never changed my diet during that time. If anything, I was eating more when I was on the medication that caused my weight to go down.

I happen to disagree with you that fat-shaming Trump does anything whatsoever to Trump. What it does is make other fat people feel bad about themselves. And there is zero justification for that.

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Response to athena (Reply #38)

Mon Jul 3, 2017, 08:22 PM

42. Diets don't work

I had a disabled daughter who slept only 3-4 hours per night, and as I sat up with her I ate everything I could get my hands on, out of rage and despair. When she was in her day program, I sat in the recliner in front of the tv and dozed. One day it dawned on me that I was essentially an invalid due to not just my weight (almost 300 lb) and sedentary lifestyle but in my outlook on things.

I watched tv shows about people who had gastric bypass surgery, never ever considering it for myself, but deciding that since after the surgery you have to be careful about what you eat, why not just pretend you've had the surgery and start eating smaller amounts? At the same time, I was thinking of a friend who said to me "I'm always on a diet, but I'm always fat. I never eat the things I want, but I never lose weight."

That's when I decided to forget dieting and focus on eating foods I like, learning what a normal serving is and eating that. I often go to bed hungry, and it feels good.

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Response to athena (Original post)

Mon Jul 3, 2017, 08:07 PM

37. Jesus

 

"The reality, however, is that it is impossible to lose weight, and that being fat is not unhealthy."

Fucking ridiculous.

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Response to athena (Original post)

Mon Jul 3, 2017, 08:13 PM

39. Hygiene shaming ... Is that okay?

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Response to athena (Original post)

Mon Jul 3, 2017, 08:17 PM

40. Chris Christie uses "unhealthy habits" to justify sending marijuana users to prison.

Sorry, I'm going to point out that that fat fuck has no business lecturing cannabis users- who tend to be more healthy than average, as a matter of fact- about "unhealthy habits", much less filling prisons with them.

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Response to athena (Original post)

Mon Jul 3, 2017, 09:37 PM

45. Fat shaming is wrong because it's ineffective

If the whole idea is to make the fat person decide to lose weight, it obviously hasn't been doing its job. I got some criticism from my brother when I regained weight that I had lost. I reminded him that I'm fat, not blind. He's never said another word.

I don't like that I regained the weight, but beating myself up about it won't help anything. Right now, I would like to lose weight because I have arthritis in my knees and the extra pounds don't help. I'm 60 so it's more a quality of life issue than a vanity issue.

But I would never say it's impossible to lose weight and keep it off. It's just uncommon. Healthwise, there's a big difference in the health effects of obesity vs. simply carrying 20 or 30 extra pounds. When your weight affects the quality of your life and the things you can do, it's a problem even if you live to be 100.

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