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Fri Jun 30, 2017, 10:20 PM

Two gripes after a 12 day road trip.

When did the left lane become the primary driving lane?

Most of the trip I was driving my car, the last leg was a truck. Being in a truck amplifies the left lane drivers problem. Left lane drivers cause traffic congestion and create hazardous passing situations, passing on the right and cutting off the right lane driver to get where you can pass the left lane loafers. And if you are driving a truck, give up on ever passing slower vehicles.

The other pet peeve: When did it become normal to come to a dead stop on the freeway when it rains? It's a great way to end up dead. I saw no less than six rear end collisions today alone because someone stopped in the rain. If you can't handle driving in the rain, pull off the damn road!

An 8 hour drive turned into 12 hours due to thsee stump driving tricks.

Rant Off

123 replies, 9196 views

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Reply Two gripes after a 12 day road trip. (Original post)
liberal N proud Jun 2017 OP
Proud liberal 80 Jun 2017 #1
liberal N proud Jul 2017 #11
ProfessorGAC Jul 2017 #77
liberal N proud Jul 2017 #89
ProfessorGAC Jul 2017 #98
liberal N proud Jul 2017 #99
dembotoz Jul 2017 #22
rainbow4321 Jul 2017 #24
Amishman Jul 2017 #113
AngryAmish Jul 2017 #33
dembotoz Jul 2017 #38
AngryAmish Jul 2017 #120
dembotoz Jul 2017 #121
AngryAmish Jul 2017 #122
dembotoz Jul 2017 #123
Nac Mac Feegle Jul 2017 #114
grantcart Jul 2017 #32
Proud liberal 80 Jul 2017 #50
oberliner Jun 2017 #2
liberal N proud Jul 2017 #10
ileus Jul 2017 #13
liberal N proud Jul 2017 #20
melm00se Jul 2017 #16
mnhtnbb Jul 2017 #39
Blue_true Jun 2017 #3
liberal N proud Jul 2017 #9
ProudLib72 Jun 2017 #4
pangaia Jun 2017 #5
ProudLib72 Jun 2017 #7
pangaia Jul 2017 #28
liberal N proud Jul 2017 #12
3catwoman3 Jul 2017 #88
unc70 Jun 2017 #6
liberal N proud Jul 2017 #8
ileus Jul 2017 #14
rgbecker Jul 2017 #40
unc70 Jul 2017 #44
DrDan Jul 2017 #74
unc70 Jul 2017 #76
rgbecker Jul 2017 #15
DrDan Jul 2017 #18
Proud liberal 80 Jul 2017 #51
liberal N proud Jul 2017 #19
nocalflea Jul 2017 #34
rgbecker Jul 2017 #36
nocalflea Jul 2017 #48
liberal N proud Jul 2017 #45
DrDan Jul 2017 #86
nocalflea Jul 2017 #109
B2G Jul 2017 #21
rgbecker Jul 2017 #23
Proud liberal 80 Jul 2017 #52
athena Jul 2017 #54
Proud liberal 80 Jul 2017 #64
rainbow4321 Jul 2017 #25
A HERETIC I AM Jul 2017 #27
rgbecker Jul 2017 #37
Whiskeytide Jul 2017 #42
liberal N proud Jul 2017 #46
pangaia Jul 2017 #30
Awsi Dooger Jul 2017 #31
athena Jul 2017 #55
klook Jul 2017 #71
Proud liberal 80 Jul 2017 #49
athena Jul 2017 #56
Proud liberal 80 Jul 2017 #65
liberal N proud Jul 2017 #70
DrDan Jul 2017 #73
Proud liberal 80 Jul 2017 #80
DrDan Jul 2017 #81
Proud liberal 80 Jul 2017 #83
DrDan Jul 2017 #84
Proud liberal 80 Jul 2017 #85
athena Jul 2017 #91
Proud liberal 80 Jul 2017 #92
athena Jul 2017 #93
Proud liberal 80 Jul 2017 #94
athena Jul 2017 #96
A HERETIC I AM Jul 2017 #117
krispos42 Jul 2017 #75
Egnever Jul 2017 #95
aikoaiko Jul 2017 #110
mountain grammy Jul 2017 #17
mnhtnbb Jul 2017 #41
ProfessorGAC Jul 2017 #79
A HERETIC I AM Jul 2017 #26
liberal N proud Jul 2017 #47
spooky3 Jul 2017 #29
Freddie Jul 2017 #35
Hortensis Jul 2017 #43
Freelancer Jul 2017 #53
athena Jul 2017 #57
liberal N proud Jul 2017 #58
Freelancer Jul 2017 #59
rgbecker Jul 2017 #61
Proud liberal 80 Jul 2017 #67
rgbecker Jul 2017 #60
liberal N proud Jul 2017 #62
Freelancer Jul 2017 #63
liberal N proud Jul 2017 #68
Proud liberal 80 Jul 2017 #66
liberal N proud Jul 2017 #69
retread Jul 2017 #72
rgbecker Jul 2017 #78
Proud liberal 80 Jul 2017 #82
Proud liberal 80 Jul 2017 #87
liberal N proud Jul 2017 #90
Zing Zing Zingbah Jul 2017 #97
liberal N proud Jul 2017 #100
Zing Zing Zingbah Jul 2017 #101
liberal N proud Jul 2017 #105
appleannie1943 Jul 2017 #102
Proud liberal 80 Jul 2017 #103
DrDan Jul 2017 #111
Proud liberal 80 Jul 2017 #112
liberal N proud Jul 2017 #106
appleannie1943 Jul 2017 #107
liberal N proud Jul 2017 #108
Kilgore Jul 2017 #104
Proud liberal 80 Jul 2017 #115
liberal N proud Jul 2017 #119
Major Nikon Jul 2017 #116
PossiblePasts Jul 2017 #118

Response to liberal N proud (Original post)

Fri Jun 30, 2017, 10:22 PM

1. I hate left lane drivers

I loved when I was in Europe where it is illegal to stay in the left unless passing.

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Response to Proud liberal 80 (Reply #1)

Sat Jul 1, 2017, 07:47 AM

11. It should be here as well.

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Response to liberal N proud (Reply #11)

Mon Jul 3, 2017, 01:00 PM

77. It Is In Illinois

Now, i doubt the law is enforced, but the law here is that you cannot be in the left lane for more than a half mile, unless it entails passing a series of cars in the right lane, or there is no room to move into the right lane.

Been that way for several years. At least 10, i believe.

Since i'm mister "speed limit in the right lane" it doesn't affect me much. But, it actually is a law here.

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Response to ProfessorGAC (Reply #77)

Mon Jul 3, 2017, 03:18 PM

89. I recall when that law went I to effect

I have been driving through Illinois for many years and at first it really made a difference. But out of state drivers ignore it and it is not enforced like it was.


I am not one of the drivers that runs at excessive speed, but I tend to run about 5 mph over, no more. But I will speed up to get out of the way of someone going faster or to get past a truck that I am along side so they don't have to slow down. Try to make traffic flow as smoothly as possible.

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Response to liberal N proud (Reply #89)

Mon Jul 3, 2017, 05:49 PM

98. I See

My dad was a truck driver
Following the speed limit and being a courteous driver was something I had imprinted 2 years before I had a license
My dad said he was driving 70 thousand pounds of death and only courteous driving would save lives
I never forgot that, and I've been driving 45 years

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Response to ProfessorGAC (Reply #98)

Mon Jul 3, 2017, 08:34 PM

99. Similar story here

My dad had me drive from Iowa to California when I was 15, he preached being courteous and proper lane usage.

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Response to Proud liberal 80 (Reply #1)

Sat Jul 1, 2017, 03:45 PM

22. trouble is i drive in an area where the right lane is in such disrepair that my car hates it

and it can not be my car alone....noticeable difference between right and left lane.
i am in wisconsin so the roads are not getting any better.

one stretch in particular i have pulled off the road more than once cause my car drove like i had a flat....awful stuff

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Response to dembotoz (Reply #22)

Sun Jul 2, 2017, 12:38 AM

24. Absolutely...

Have run into that multiple times! You get non-stop bumpity-bump and swerving potholes in the right lane while the left one is all smooth and flat...you can only take so much of that kind of right lane infrastructure!

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Response to rainbow4321 (Reply #24)

Wed Jul 5, 2017, 01:09 PM

113. That's fine, but if you make that choice increase speed appropriately

Still not an excuse to be creating a hazard in the left lane by driving too slowly. If you have open road in front of you and a line of cars behind you, speed up or get over.

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Response to dembotoz (Reply #22)

Sun Jul 2, 2017, 01:48 AM

33. Wisconsin is a flat road paradise

 

Signed, a FIB without a budget for three years due to cancer/corruption.

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Response to AngryAmish (Reply #33)

Sun Jul 2, 2017, 08:00 AM

38. Feel ur pain but wis roads rated bottom 5 in the usa

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Response to dembotoz (Reply #38)

Sun Jul 9, 2017, 04:27 PM

120. I take it all back.

 

I have not been up north in over a decade. I 43 for thirty miles north of Port Washington is the worst interstate I have ever driven.


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Response to AngryAmish (Reply #120)

Sun Jul 9, 2017, 08:41 PM

121. starting to see some gains against the gop talking points...just point to the roads

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Response to dembotoz (Reply #121)

Sun Jul 9, 2017, 10:15 PM

122. The roundabouts are nice, tho.

 

Wish we had those.

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Response to AngryAmish (Reply #122)

Mon Jul 10, 2017, 07:53 AM

123. at first i hated them i have grown to accept them

what i do not like is how the multiple lane ones where you need to pick a lane a bit early. Have seen folk mid roundabout needing to change lanes....not pretty. lack of practice? poor design? perhaps both

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Response to dembotoz (Reply #22)

Wed Jul 5, 2017, 01:28 PM

114. I do a LOT of driving for my job

I'm often on the Interstates in Arizona, and the right lane is often terrible.

The Interstate highway system is patterned after Germany's Autobahn, but in a cost saving move, the road bed is less than half of the 1 meter that is specified there. This results in a much more easily damaged road, whether from temperature cycling or traffic wear. It isn't as sturdy.

With the number and weight of the big trucks that make up the bulk of the traffic, and their tendency to keep to the right lane, the right lane often resembles the aftermath of an artillery barrage. They don't like it any more than I do in my 1 ton utility body work truck or my wife's Prius. You get pitched all over the place.

Idealism is great, but sometimes you have to be practical.

Another difference from the Autobahn is the maximum grade specification. The Interstate's is much higher, so the slopes allowed are much steeper, which means those big heavy trucks are laboring up those slopes at a much lower speed. This causes more traffic problems, especially in a state that is so cash-strapped it can't keep up the existing roads, much less add another lane.

Throw in weekend tourist traffic with attendant alcohol consumption and sun exposure, and The Picture Isn't Pretty.

All because they were too cheap to do it right the first time. Because it's Good Enough For Government Work.


Sorry for the rant, it's a pet peeve. I look at root causes, the reason behind the problem.


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Response to Proud liberal 80 (Reply #1)

Sun Jul 2, 2017, 01:41 AM

32. You mean right lane drivers driving on the left side of the road right?

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Response to grantcart (Reply #32)

Sun Jul 2, 2017, 03:24 PM

50. No one should be cruising in the left

I don't care how fast u are going

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Response to liberal N proud (Original post)

Fri Jun 30, 2017, 10:26 PM

2. What state(s) were you in?

 

I've never encountered either of those things.

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Response to oberliner (Reply #2)

Sat Jul 1, 2017, 07:47 AM

10. On Friday alone, Ohio, West Virginia, Virginia, North Carolina, South Carolina

Earlier in the week, Georgia, Tennessee, Kentucky, Illinois, Missouri and Indiana.

Friday was by far the worst with holiday travelers.

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Response to liberal N proud (Reply #10)

Sat Jul 1, 2017, 08:15 AM

13. Try going thru the tunnels on 77...

It's like folks can't decide what to do so they go from 80 to 25.


I drive 77 every day of the week I'm sure it's going to shorten my life trying to deal with folks that don't have a clue about interstate driving.

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Response to ileus (Reply #13)

Sat Jul 1, 2017, 03:20 PM

20. It is crazy

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Response to liberal N proud (Reply #10)

Sat Jul 1, 2017, 09:13 AM

16. NC does not have

a left lane cruising law.

there is one proposed law but its fate is uncertain

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Response to liberal N proud (Reply #10)

Sun Jul 2, 2017, 08:03 AM

39. I always joke there is no such thing as a speed limit in NC.

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Response to liberal N proud (Original post)

Fri Jun 30, 2017, 10:30 PM

3. Yesterday a dude stopped about 25 yards before a traffic light to text or answer his phone.

It was rush hour. Truly amazing how thoughtless even intelligent people can become behind the wheel of a car.

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Response to Blue_true (Reply #3)

Sat Jul 1, 2017, 07:44 AM

9. Mindless!

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Response to liberal N proud (Original post)

Fri Jun 30, 2017, 10:31 PM

4. I hear ya about the rain

Or snow or hail or any damned weather condition other than perfectly clear. There will always be some idiot who thinks they need to drive "cautiously", meaning slowing down to a crawl (usually in the left lane, too).

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Response to ProudLib72 (Reply #4)

Fri Jun 30, 2017, 10:35 PM

5. Not if you live in upstate NY. :))))

AWD, $850 worth of snow tires and.... zoom zoom zoom...

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Response to pangaia (Reply #5)

Fri Jun 30, 2017, 11:04 PM

7. Hey I'm in CO!

I remember in college this kid from Minnesota was talking smack about CO drivers not knowing how to drive in snow. I went to grad school in CT and found out he was absolutely correct. We get snow, but it doesn't stay for long. Most people just stay off the roads until it melts.

My wife has a Honda CRV with AWD and a set of studded snow tires. Man, that thing HANDLES the snow!

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Response to ProudLib72 (Reply #7)

Sun Jul 2, 2017, 01:00 AM

28. My last 2 were Subaru Imprezas. Unstoppable.

I hust biyght an HR-V
Ill see how it is this winter.

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Response to ProudLib72 (Reply #4)

Sat Jul 1, 2017, 07:48 AM

12. These idiots just stopped in the lane.

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Response to ProudLib72 (Reply #4)

Mon Jul 3, 2017, 02:15 PM

88. And then there are those idiots...

...who drives faster and more stupidly in hazardous conditions. Can't win for losing. I'm about ready to back to a horse and buggy.

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Response to liberal N proud (Original post)

Fri Jun 30, 2017, 10:38 PM

6. Now illegal to drive slowly in left lanes in NC

Law just passed in NC. Not sure the effective date. Slower traffic must move to the right lanes, even if already driving the speed limit. If traffic is impeded behind you, then move right. Sure this is already the law in many states.

Big problem is with people slowing down in the left lane to answer a telephone call or even to dial a new call.

There are two equally bad behaviors in the rain: almost stopping and continuing to run 80+ in nearly zero visibility with lots of ponding on the roadway. When the trucks slow to 40 mph, maybe you should, too.

I see 2-3 bad wrecks every week.

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Response to unc70 (Reply #6)

Sat Jul 1, 2017, 07:43 AM

8. That wasn't stopping anyone on Friday.

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Response to liberal N proud (Reply #8)

Sat Jul 1, 2017, 08:17 AM

14. Just become law here in Virginia also.

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Response to unc70 (Reply #6)

Sun Jul 2, 2017, 08:05 AM

40. Looks like not a law yet in NC.

http://www.wral.com/passing-lane-bill-fails-to-yield-in-senate/16653253/

Its future in the Senate is uncertain, however. The Senate Transportation Committee earlier rejected an identical bill sponsored by Sen. Jeff Tarte
, R-Mecklenburg, so Senate leaders may refuse to consider it.

http://www.wral.com/house-set-to-vote-on-passing-lane-law-/16762464/

Interesting to read the opponents views.

Odd you would arrest and fine the law abiding granny rather than the speed limit breaker. !

We are talking about driving the speed limit while passing in the left lane, not those cruising along at slower speeds which in every state would be obstructing traffic.

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Response to rgbecker (Reply #40)

Sun Jul 2, 2017, 08:59 AM

44. I thought I saw it had passed

The proposal was in several different NC House and Senate bills. I thought I saw a few days ago that it had passed, but maybe not. The argument against this change is the one you made, but in practice the current rules are ineffective.

First, the absolute speed limit rule (or strictly legal) doesn't work well in practice. It requires that cars and drivers meet a level of calibration and speed control that is not possible. A difference of only a couple of mph still causes the problems. It seems best to have the don't impeded rule separate from the various speed limit rules.

BTW some legislators argue that current NC law already covers this when posted with "Slower Traffic Keep Right" -- case on NC interstate highways.

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Response to unc70 (Reply #6)

Mon Jul 3, 2017, 12:30 PM

74. you sure it passed the Senate - last I can find is that it did not pass - that was April

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Response to DrDan (Reply #74)

Mon Jul 3, 2017, 12:48 PM

76. See post #44 above

As I said, I was apparently mistaken that it had passed. There were multiple House and Senate bills on this issue, the latest from around June 20.

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Response to liberal N proud (Original post)

Sat Jul 1, 2017, 09:07 AM

15. Am I obligated by you to exceed the speed limit in order to pass

a slower car so you can exceed the speed limit?

How many times do I have to watch the speeders flash lights and tail gate me at 70 MPH while I pass the slower cars while driving at the speed limit. In NJ last month I had 18 wheelers 10 feet behind me at 70 MPH apparently thinking their wind wall would push me to disobey the posted speed limit. Then a young lady can't wait for me to finish my passing of a slower truck and starts to pull around to my right, this at about 10 feet behind me and clearing the passed truck by about 5 feet. She was surprised that I should want to get back in the right lane out of her way. She slammed her brakes on and sounded her horn as if she coming from behind had some sort of special right of way designation!

Hey, I don't like being stuck behind drivers driving at less than the posted limit either but if you want to speed I don't think you have any special rights. As far as stopping on the highway because of rain? That's over the top crazy.

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Response to rgbecker (Reply #15)

Sat Jul 1, 2017, 09:29 AM

18. agree 100% - I feel no obligation to accelerate passing because of another driver's impatience

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Response to DrDan (Reply #18)

Sun Jul 2, 2017, 03:26 PM

51. Why are cruising in the left

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Response to rgbecker (Reply #15)

Sat Jul 1, 2017, 03:19 PM

19. The sign says "SLOWER TRAFFIC KEEP RIGHT"

What gives you the right from preventing others from exceeding the speed limit? That is the police job!

And there was nothing in my original post about speeding. I see many assholes sitting in the left lane driving well under the speed limit.

Left lane loafers are far more of a hazard than the speeders. Germany and most of Europe have realized this but here we have too many self righteous Pricks who see it as their responsibility to police everyone else.

Live and let live and get out of my way!

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Response to liberal N proud (Reply #19)

Sun Jul 2, 2017, 03:45 AM

34. In California the speed of the flow of traffic supercedes the posted limit.

You're not allowed to impede the flow of traffic. If only one lane, your are legally obligated to speed up or pull over to the side of the road and let all traffic pass.

Pretty effective, but idiots abound. Real pain-in -ass when traffic is heavy in both directions . Pulling over is such a simple concept, yet some folks will never get it.

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Response to nocalflea (Reply #34)

Sun Jul 2, 2017, 07:34 AM

36. Maybe in California, maybe not.

Speed of flow doesn't allow speeds over the posted speed limit but rather refers to the fact a slower speed may be required if the flow of traffic is slower.

http://www.thetrafficticketattorneys.com/blog/flow-of-traffic-versus-speed-limit/

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Response to rgbecker (Reply #36)

Sun Jul 2, 2017, 01:08 PM

48. There is a difference between driving at an unsafe speed or impediing the flow of traffic or speeding while driving within the flow of traffic.

Saw a guy pulled over going the speed of the flow traffic.He was not pulled over for speeding but for driving 75 mph downhill while towing a speed-boat -unsafe speed for towing and in the far left lane ( speed of flow was 10 mph over posted limit). People of course are ticketed for speeding within the flow(overtaking the flow). CHP is very effective at lowering the speed of flow (whether by letting their presence be known and/or by targeting using eyes in the skies).
People are not ticketed willy-nilly within the flow.

My server won't allow me to access your link, so I don't know the partoculars of the cited case.

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Response to nocalflea (Reply #34)

Sun Jul 2, 2017, 10:13 AM

45. Yes!

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Response to nocalflea (Reply #34)

Mon Jul 3, 2017, 02:01 PM

86. not true

You are driving on the interstate and the flow of traffic is moving much faster than the posted speed limit. You are simply keeping up with the flow of traffic when you are pulled over by a police officer for speeding. Will you receive a speeding ticket? It is a popular belief that you will not receive a California speeding ticket if you are driving with the flow of traffic — this is incorrect.

https://www.ticketsnipers.com/article/california-traffic-ticket-for-driving-with-the-flow-of-traffic

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Response to DrDan (Reply #86)

Wed Jul 5, 2017, 08:14 AM

109. Targeting.

People of course are ticketed for speeding within the flow (overtaking the flow). They are targeted for zipping in out of lanes.There are good reasons why car A was ticketed as opposed to car B.

Never knew anyone to lie to get out of a ticket ? Of course some may be clueless as to why they were targeted. "I was going with the flow your honor."

Have seen CHP many times in this situation, out in force to slow the flow. They target aggressive drivers, message sent. Flow slows. If you see the CHP in your rearview mirror and don't slow down, you deserve an effing ticket.

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Response to rgbecker (Reply #15)

Sat Jul 1, 2017, 03:23 PM

21. If you want to pass, speed up.

 

You can reduce your speed once you've passed. Common courtesy.

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Response to rgbecker (Reply #15)

Sat Jul 1, 2017, 08:53 PM

23. Hey, you guys can speed all you want.

I've paid enough to the government in taxes and don't need any speeding fines or increases in insurance rates!

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Response to rgbecker (Reply #23)

Sun Jul 2, 2017, 03:27 PM

52. Then stay in the right lane

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Response to Proud liberal 80 (Reply #52)

Sun Jul 2, 2017, 04:55 PM

54. So never pass anyone?

The poster's point was that a person should not be forced to exceed the speeding limit just because they want to pass someone. There is no law that says that you must exceed the speed limit when using the left lane. On the contrary, it is illegal to exceed the speed limit no matter what lane you are in. Just because you wish to break the law doesn't mean everyone else has to as well.

You can feel free to be an aggressive driver. It really hurts you more than it hurts anyone else. At the very least, it's hurting your pocketbook, not to mention your stress levels and your likelihood of ending up in an accident.

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Response to athena (Reply #54)

Sun Jul 2, 2017, 10:51 PM

64. No I didn't say don't pass

I am saying don't get in the left lane until it is "actually" time to pass. And the people that cause accidents are slow drivers in the left lane.

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Response to rgbecker (Reply #15)

Sun Jul 2, 2017, 12:49 AM

25. Some idiot tried to zoom past me at the Grand Canyon last week

It was early evening so the elk were coming out in the area where you are exiting the park...speed limit is 35. I was choosing to go between 30-35 because I had already seen some elk literally strolling around the parking lots.
The fool behind me tried to pass me, which meant he had to have accelerated to 40-45...RIGHT as we were neck and neck we BOTH had to brake because an elk ran out in front of us.
Difference being, I was going slow enough to begin with..HE on the other hand, choosing to speed past me, had a very hard, jarring brake.
I made a hand motion to him to indicate "THIS is why I was going just below and right at the speed limit". He could have killed the elk, himself, or ME had the elk or his car got thrown MY way!

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Response to rgbecker (Reply #15)

Sun Jul 2, 2017, 12:56 AM

27. You're obligated to get the fuck out of the way

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Response to A HERETIC I AM (Reply #27)

Sun Jul 2, 2017, 07:49 AM

37. Obligated??? WOW.

Legally, the trailing car has no rights. Even in no fault insurance states, there is never a question about liability when a car rear ends another, no matter the cause. This works great if you need to replace your car. Simply hit the brakes when being followed to closely and hang on til you get the payment for the whiplash and a new car!

Many states apparently use the 2 second rule for following distance. One car length for each 5 MPH of speed. IE: 14 car lengths at
70 MPH!

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Two-second_rule

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Response to rgbecker (Reply #37)

Sun Jul 2, 2017, 08:36 AM

42. You could not be more wrong...

... about rear end liability. If you slam on your brakes in front of another vehicle, the lawyers will target you. I promise. You'd be surprised how many vehicles have dash cams now. And since your proposal amounts to an intentional act, your insurance company will cut you loose and the other driver's legal team will be selling off your personal assets to satisfy the judgement.

And since your claims of whiplash would be intended to collect insurance money for your property damage and fake pain, you would be guilty of insurance fraud and perhaps perjury. Could actually do jail time.

Not to mention the small matter of endangering the lives of drivers and passengers around you with a stunt to "prove who can't be intimidated".

So have fun with that sly little plan of yours.

But at least you held your moral high ground and didn't let some other driver make you speed up a little to reduce congestion and improve traffic flow. Close one man. Close one.

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Response to Whiskeytide (Reply #42)

Sun Jul 2, 2017, 10:16 AM

46. I have a dash cam for such reasons

Slam on the brakes, the cam will show what transpired leading up to it and settle things.

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Response to rgbecker (Reply #15)

Sun Jul 2, 2017, 01:04 AM

30. I always thought all those loafers out there obeying the speed limit were republicans.



Guess I was wrong.


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Response to pangaia (Reply #30)

Sun Jul 2, 2017, 01:32 AM

31. Republicans are the young simplistic angry males who zig zag at high speed

 

Changing lanes with inches to spare in their black sports cars as if they are entitled to any space their vehicle will fit.

Aggressive driving is the height of ignorance. No clue regarding probability and no concern for others. It always makes me laugh when people try to pretend otherwise. But at least I would expect it on right wing sites. Here it is beyond pathetic.

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Response to Awsi Dooger (Reply #31)

Sun Jul 2, 2017, 04:58 PM

55. I totally agree. (n/t)

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Response to Awsi Dooger (Reply #31)

Mon Jul 3, 2017, 07:19 AM

71. Enlightening thread.

I am so glad I commute to work on public transportation now, after many harrowing years driving up and down freeways during rush hour. The aggressive drivers posting in this thread sound like many of the ones I've unfortunately encountered on the road.

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Response to rgbecker (Reply #15)

Sun Jul 2, 2017, 03:23 PM

49. Yes

Drivers like you are the problem and the people the OP was talking about. Don't know the common sense rules of the road or sometimes even law. The left is for a quick pass and an immediate return to the right lane. Should only be a couple seconds. If it is taking you longer than a couple seconds then you shouldn't have gotten in the left lane until it was time to actually pass.

The driving like what you do would get "You" the ticket in Europe even if you were doing the speed limit. Wish it was that way here.

The left lane is for quick passing, not to hang out in because you will eventually pass a car in the right lane.

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Response to Proud liberal 80 (Reply #49)

Sun Jul 2, 2017, 05:00 PM

56. A safe driver keeps a safe distance to the car in front of her.

What you say about not getting in the left lane until it's time to pass is nonsense. There is no law that says one must wait until the last minute to pass someone, and no law that says one must pass quickly.

It seems like you are not a very safe driver.

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Response to athena (Reply #56)

Sun Jul 2, 2017, 11:06 PM

65. I am a very safe driver

Learned how to drive in Europe where the drivers know what they are doing. Came to the states and found out Americans "like yourself" are terrible drivers.

You are right, there is no American law, but it is common sense. Like I said earlier, that is the European law.

I keep a safe distance when in the right lane, but know when it's time to get over to pass without impeding others. And then immediately back into the right lane.

The unsafe drivers are people cruising for no reason in the left lane, speed limit or not. Get your ass over.

Edit: and I always do a reasonable speed. Only going 5-7 miles over. So it isn't like I am a speed demon.

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Response to Proud liberal 80 (Reply #65)

Mon Jul 3, 2017, 06:45 AM

70. I could drive all day with drivers like you

Courtesy is the name of the game. We have roads full of drivers who take great joy in causing angst in all others.

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Response to Proud liberal 80 (Reply #65)

Mon Jul 3, 2017, 12:18 PM

73. so when you "ride someone", regardless of which lane, you are driving safely?

not in my book

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Response to DrDan (Reply #73)

Mon Jul 3, 2017, 01:10 PM

80. A lot of terrible drivers

You included, Seem to be offended in this thread.

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Response to Proud liberal 80 (Reply #80)

Mon Jul 3, 2017, 01:15 PM

81. not offended at all. . . . and I do not tailgate anyone, regardless of which lane I am in

I understand that is not a safe driving technique.

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Response to DrDan (Reply #81)

Mon Jul 3, 2017, 01:17 PM

83. Being in the left lane

For no damn reason is the most unsafe driving technique.

In Europe, they will ride your ass and continue to flash until you get over.

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Response to Proud liberal 80 (Reply #83)

Mon Jul 3, 2017, 01:23 PM

84. I am in the left lane to pass . . . have I said otherwise?

I will be passing at the speed limit or a few miles over . . . and will not be bullied by someone like you trying to intimidate by tailgating and/or flashing your lights.

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Response to DrDan (Reply #84)

Mon Jul 3, 2017, 01:30 PM

85. I have no problem with people using the left to pass

It's when they are in the left lane way too early to pass a car or stay in the left after passing the car.

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Response to Proud liberal 80 (Reply #65)

Mon Jul 3, 2017, 03:55 PM

91. A "very safe driver" who breaks the law.

Like it or not, going 5-7 miles over is breaking the law. You have just admitted to breaking the law regularly. The speed limit is there for a reason.

Tailgating, by the way, is a very unsafe practice, regardless of what the person in front of you is doing.

The fact that you think European drivers know what they're doing really says a lot. It depends, of course, whether you're talking about Sweden or Greece, but I suspect you are talking about something closer to the latter.

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Response to athena (Reply #91)

Mon Jul 3, 2017, 05:28 PM

92. Funny how that 5-7 over

Never gets me stopped. Even when I am driving right passed a patrol car. I don't even try to break because I know I am not doing anything wrong and they aren't going to waste their time.

And no, it was mainly Germany, France, and Belgium.

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Response to Proud liberal 80 (Reply #92)

Mon Jul 3, 2017, 05:32 PM

93. Technically, it is illegal.

The fact that they haven't stopped you yet doesn't make it legal. They have the right to give you a ticket for even going 1 mile over the speed limit.

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Response to athena (Reply #93)

Mon Jul 3, 2017, 05:35 PM

94. My Dad's a cop

If you are going 60 in a 55 or 70 in a 65, etc.. they aren't going to stop. Unless a cop just wants to be an asshole.

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Response to Proud liberal 80 (Reply #94)

Mon Jul 3, 2017, 05:39 PM

96. That still doesn't make it legal.

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Response to athena (Reply #91)

Wed Jul 5, 2017, 07:06 PM

117. The speed limit is COMPLETELY and utterly arbitrary.

"The speed limit is there for a reason. "

Yup. And that reason is primarily revenue production. It has ABSOLUTELY nothing to do with safety.

Please tell me what is the real fundamental difference between this stretch of road;
https://goo.gl/maps/E6YTMLsdi3B2

And this one;
https://goo.gl/maps/ZdRExBUpH162

The first is US 84, NW of Laredo, TX.

The second is I 5 in the Southern Central Valley of CA, north of Lost Hills, which BTW, is 70 MPH for passenger cars, but California is a member of a small club of states that thinks mandating trucks and other vehicles run 15 MPH slower than the rest of the traffic is a good idea. It's not.

Advisory speeds on curves and hills is another matter, but for mostly flat, straight sections of interstate, people run the speed they are comfortable with, and that is fine, as long as you stay to the right.

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Response to rgbecker (Reply #15)

Mon Jul 3, 2017, 12:41 PM

75. If there's nobody in front of you and everybody behind you, you're the problem

Regardless of legality, you're the impediment. You're forcing people to break up their cruising and adapt to you. This happens millions, tens of millions, hundreds of millions of times a day, and a certain percentage of these events results in a collision.

Obviously, some people are assholes; if you're passing slower traffic and they're being jerks behind you, then it's not you. And I take special pleasure in foiling people that try to come up from my right rear and cram themselves into the safety cushion I have between my car and the vehicle I'm following.

But if you're passing with a 1 MPH speed advantage, then, really, you're not helping. "Look, technically speaking, I'm passing!" still makes you the impediment, the discontinuity in the smooth flow of traffic.

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Response to rgbecker (Reply #15)

Mon Jul 3, 2017, 05:36 PM

95. Absolutely

 

If you aren't willing to clear the traffic then stay behind the slow folks

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Response to rgbecker (Reply #15)

Wed Jul 5, 2017, 08:46 AM

110. Yes.

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Response to liberal N proud (Original post)

Sat Jul 1, 2017, 09:24 AM

17. My husband, who had a CDL and once drove cement mixers

is a left lane driver.. it makes me crazy. You'd think he'd know better. Showing him your rant.

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Response to mountain grammy (Reply #17)

Sun Jul 2, 2017, 08:10 AM

41. I think it's a male thing. My husband drives the left lane, too. Can't tell you how many times

he's complained about a car on his tail and I will tell him, "move over to the right'. Does he do it?
No, he'll say he has every right to be there.

I don't ride with him anymore. Whenever we go somewhere, I drive.

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Response to mnhtnbb (Reply #41)

Mon Jul 3, 2017, 01:04 PM

79. Not Around Here It Isn't

Strictly anecdotal, but i think it's more a 20 to 25 year young woman thing. And, again in my experience, that is the majority of the "drive into my trunk" tailgaters too. Not exclusively of course, but it has to be approaching 50% of the time it has occurred to me.

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Response to liberal N proud (Original post)

Sun Jul 2, 2017, 12:53 AM

26. Welcome to my world

Closing on 2.5 million miles driving 18 wheelers in the lower 48 and 3 Canadian provinces.

Americans HATE to change lanes.

Hate it hate it HATE IT!

It's as if they seem to think the idea of watching what the fuck is going on around them is too much to ask

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Response to A HERETIC I AM (Reply #26)

Sun Jul 2, 2017, 10:18 AM

47. I agree with that.

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Response to liberal N proud (Original post)

Sun Jul 2, 2017, 01:02 AM

29. Here's a pet peeve of mine...

You're driving along at a reasonable rate of speed, with the right of way. Suddenly a car approaching a stop sign perpendicular to your road decides to make a right or left turn right in front of you to enter the road you're on. If you don't hit your brakes, you'll hit him or her. This happens daily, and it's the worst when there is no car behind me for a good distance (aside from the safety risk), which means that if Dummy had just been patient for about 3 more seconds, s/he could have made the turn safely.

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Response to liberal N proud (Original post)

Sun Jul 2, 2017, 07:11 AM

35. 4 or 5 way stop

There's a 5-way stop near my house that I have to go through at least 2x daily. Especially at rush hour...those red signs? Can't tell you how many times I've almost been broadsided by some jackass flying through the stop sign without the slightest pause, after I've waited my turn and pulled into the intersection. Luckily I have good reflexes. Then there's the "Jeff Gordon Effect" when one driver follows another without stopping, running on the first car's "draft".

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Response to liberal N proud (Original post)

Sun Jul 2, 2017, 08:50 AM

43. Two theories, Lib: Most people live in urban areas

where congestion means all lanes are needed. People are just used to using them.

Second, and the lesser I really am guessing: We're living in a mean era of increased anxiety. Development of intense political bigotry leading to pride in refusal by some to agree to even the traditional fixes. Millions building their political behaviors on the belief that the nation's filled with cheats and unworthies just trying to take advantage of good people. Railroading people into prison by the millions, with widespread joking about prison rape. We're still on the angrier and crazier downturn of the wheel. Cooperation has literally become seen as synonymous with lack of principal by many on both the right and far left. In this environment, would it be strange if some people were acting out their social/political attitudes behind the wheel?



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Response to liberal N proud (Original post)

Sun Jul 2, 2017, 04:16 PM

53. Counter-rant:

I drive a lot in the left lane in Illinois... at about 5 to 7 over, usually. Here's why:

1. The right lane will rip your car apart at 70 in Illinois.

2. People merging in act like idiots. They go 5 miles under the limit on the ramp just long enough that you're forced to change lanes left, or brake to avoid. Then they immediately goose it. Just speed up to the limit as you merge-in, people! It's just safer to stay out of the far right lane where there are a lot of on-ramps.

3. When the sign says "through traffic keep left," it doesn't also say "also go 15 miles over the speed limit to accommodate assholes." I would have noticed that. It wouldn't matter, anyway, the ones going 20 over would still be pissed.

4. Last time I checked, speeding tickets and camera fines didn't have a box reporting the prevailing lane speed at the time of the infraction. So, good luck arguing that.

I stay in the left lane when you come up behind me, flashing your lights like an idiot, because experience has taught that the very moment I go to change lanes, you'll zoom past on the right, holding up a middle finger. It's just safer, at that point, to let you indulge yourself and move on to your next exposition of grace.

One last point. The only way that a rear-ending would be found to be the fault of the driver in front would be if he/she freely admitted on record that their intent was to cause an accident. Touching the brake can only cause an accident if the driver behind is following too closely in the first place. So, any driver in front, in their right mind, would claim that they brushed the brake pedal inadvertently, or thought they saw something on the road and reacted out of reflex. Good luck proving another scenario. Having headlights flash in the rear view could also be found to be sufficient cause for the braking reflex. Something to consider.

End of counter-rant.

Happy motoring!

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Response to Freelancer (Reply #53)

Sun Jul 2, 2017, 05:05 PM

57. Ever since I got a hybrid,

I've been so focused on maximizing my mileage that I am no longer bothered by the agressive drivers here in NJ. I never go above the speed limit. If I have to pass a slower driver, I pass at the speed limit, which is what the law says you're supposed to do. If that means the aggressive driver behind me has a fit, that's his problem. As my driving instructor used to say, he should have left earlier to give himself enough time to get to where he's going without breaking the law.

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Response to Freelancer (Reply #53)

Sun Jul 2, 2017, 05:40 PM

58. Staying in the left lane, you are creating a safety hazzard

Why people drive slow in the left lane is one of the most vexing problems of the road since the invention of the automobile.

Blocking the left lane isn’t only illegal — every state has some type of law restricting use of the left lane on multi-lane roads and highways — but keeping it open for passing causes fewer accidents than speeding because traffic flows more smoothly and there’s less tailgating and less weaving in and out of traffic.

Other benefits of not being a left lane hog include reduced road rage, better gas mileage and getting to your destination faster.

“Any time you get a disruption in the normal flow of traffic, you are apt to increase the chance of an accident to occur,” says Lt. Gary Megge of the Michigan State Police.

Michigan, for example, is one of the few states where slow left lane drivers must pull over to let faster traffic pass. They can remain in the left lane, however, if all lanes are full of traffic, Megge says.

RELATED: Is the Car or Driver Insured?

Eleven states only allow the left lane for turning or passing. In 29 states, the law is that any car driven slower than the “normal speed of traffic” should be in the right lane, even if it’s going at the speed limit.


A few states, such as Alaska, don’t allow slow left lane drivers if they’re moving slower than the speed limit.


https://www.autoinsurancecenter.com/driving-slow-in-the-left-lane-is-dumb-and-illegal.htm

Left-lane driving can cause accidents
Driving in the left lane for anything other than passing can make other cars slow down and create a traffic backup. A few slow cars can create traffic jams, researchers have found, including a slow driver in the left lane next to an equally slow driver in the right lane next to them.

Driving slower than surrounding traffic is more likely to cause an accident than speeding, according to research. Driving 5 mph slower than surrounding traffic is more likely to cause an accident than going 5 mph faster than drivers around you.



Watch this video about what you are causing by dominating the left lane...

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Response to liberal N proud (Reply #58)

Sun Jul 2, 2017, 07:04 PM

59. Nothing said will change anything. Might as well smile about it.

Nothing we are going to post about this will change the way the other drives one iota. Might as well try to find some humor in it.

Here's George Carlin's take on maniac and idiot drivers:

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Response to liberal N proud (Reply #58)

Sun Jul 2, 2017, 07:50 PM

61. That video is a riot!

Pickup truck leaving plenty of room between him and semi starts to pass semi.
Unhappy camper thinks he's going to pass pick up on right and squeeze between pick up and semi. Sorry no room (Forget 2 second rule of distances between vehicles).
Unhappy camper, now enraged, decides he has to pass using the left shoulder to pass pickup. Pickup is just about past semi, but, Oh oh, not quite.
Unhappy camper looses control (surprised? Speeding idiot driving on interstate shoulder?) and takes out the pickup and semi.

Who's fault? The pickup driver who was simply passing the slower semi? I don't think so. The one driver not driving with the flow of traffic was the unhappy camper.

That the VOX people used that video to somehow show that drivers that are driving with the flow of traffic are causing accidents by people who are speeding, switching lanes etc is just crazy like Donald Trump.


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Response to liberal N proud (Reply #58)

Sun Jul 2, 2017, 11:33 PM

67. Agree

And love the video. I was spoiled living in Germany when it came to driving. You were able to put on your cruise control and never have to turn it off because the traffic flow was so great. No one hogged the left lane.

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Response to Freelancer (Reply #53)

Sun Jul 2, 2017, 07:30 PM

60. 100%

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Response to Freelancer (Reply #53)

Sun Jul 2, 2017, 09:40 PM

62. Know that I am cussing at you as I pass on the dangerous right!

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Response to liberal N proud (Reply #62)

Sun Jul 2, 2017, 10:26 PM

63. Yet, you do it to one car after another as you disappear over the horizon

Then I pull up next to you at the gas station an hour later, notice your car, and think to myself how all the speeding, the endless jockeying for position, the attitude -- over and over on the highway -- had landed you at the same point as me -- just three minutes ahead. What a bundle of effort and emotion spent on such a small advantage.

Oh well, No biggie.

Happy motoring!

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Response to Freelancer (Reply #63)

Mon Jul 3, 2017, 06:40 AM

68. If I am only gaining three minutes, it's because there are so many of you impeding traffic.

All the rear end collisions I saw on my last trip were in the left lane!

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Response to Freelancer (Reply #53)

Sun Jul 2, 2017, 11:25 PM

66. The person cruising in the left

Is being an idiot, too. They are being just as much an asshole as the driver behind them. Knowing that they are holding up traffic, but staying in the left lane anyway just to spite the other driver. Just as dangerous because now they know the car is going to try and pass them on the right.

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Response to Proud liberal 80 (Reply #66)

Mon Jul 3, 2017, 06:42 AM

69. More dangerous because they impede traffic and force passing on the right.

Also, driving in the left lane leaves the right lane blind to the driver when behind another vehicle.

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Response to liberal N proud (Original post)

Mon Jul 3, 2017, 07:44 AM

72. 3 second rule? For day light and good conditions,

"To determine the right following distance, first select a fixed object on the road ahead such as a sign, tree or overpass. When the vehicle ahead of you passes the object, slowly count "one one thousand, two one thousand, three one thousand." If you reach the object before completing the count, you're following too closely. Making sure there are three seconds between you and the car ahead gives you time and distance to respond to problems in the lane ahead of you."

" In heavy traffic, at night, or when weather conditions are not ideal (eg. light rain, light fog, light snow), double the three second rule to six seconds, for added safety."

"If the weather conditions are very poor, eg. heavy rain, heavy fog, or heavy snow, start by tripling the three second rule to nine seconds to determine a safe following distance."

This means at 65 mph and using the 3 second rule you should have 288ft between you and the vehicle in front. At 6 seconds the distance is 576ft.
At 75 mph the distances are 333ft and 666 ft.

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Response to retread (Reply #72)

Mon Jul 3, 2017, 01:01 PM

78. They are like children, you have keep repeating it and maybe they will back off.

It would help if the police did more than sit on the side of the road with their radar guns.

The semis are the worst. Heading home empty after a long trip. Have you ever seen what one of those trucks does to a car when they slam into the rear cause they were distracted while following too close?

333 ft = 33 feet longer than a football field.

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Response to retread (Reply #72)

Mon Jul 3, 2017, 01:15 PM

82. This rule can be applied

To knowing when to get in the left lane to pass instead of getting into the left lane to pass too early.

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Response to liberal N proud (Original post)

Mon Jul 3, 2017, 02:13 PM

87. I am going to say one more thing

On this subject and then shut up. I don't care how fast a driver is going (below the speed limit, at the limit, little above, way above, doing 120), no one should be in the left lane more than a few seconds. If everyone followed that rule then driving would be much smoother.

There have been times when I am in the right lane going a reasonable speed and end up passing someone in the left. And no cars were near either of us. I just shake my head. That should never happen.

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Response to Proud liberal 80 (Reply #87)

Mon Jul 3, 2017, 03:19 PM

90. Common sense.

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Response to liberal N proud (Original post)

Mon Jul 3, 2017, 05:46 PM

97. My driving pet peeve is the state of Connecticut

I went on a road trip last week too. From Maine through Mass, Conn, Bronx NYC, and NJ and then back again. Conn had the worst traffic of the them all. NJ was pretty good. They have crazy amounts of highways there, but they need them. Conn needs them too, but they like to pretend they are a little, quaint New England state, so they cram everyone into two lanes until you get to Hartford. I-84 East was seriously stop and go traffic from Danbury to Hartford. It's only supposed to take an hour to go through there, but it took like 3 hours on Saturday. Next time I will just drive further North in NY and then cut across Mass. Driving is much better in Mass, even though there are some scary drivers there.

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Response to Zing Zing Zingbah (Reply #97)

Mon Jul 3, 2017, 08:35 PM

100. I drove that corridor once

ONCE!

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Response to liberal N proud (Reply #100)

Mon Jul 3, 2017, 08:52 PM

101. Was it only once because it was a bad experience? n/t

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Response to Zing Zing Zingbah (Reply #101)

Tue Jul 4, 2017, 08:32 AM

105. It wasn't a terrible experience

We took a trip from Boston to Charleston South Carolina.

I recall the traffic being terrible but no worse than Chicago. I think the worst part was the wrong turn I didn't realize I made that put me in the Bronx. When I looked back it was in Connecticut where I screwed up.

It was before GPS in cars.

The whole trip was fun.
Detroit 1 day -Ford Museum
Niagara Falls 1 day
Boston 2 days
New York City 3 days
Baltimore 1 day
Washington DC 3 days
Williamsburg 1 day
Outer Banks 2 days
Charleston 3 days

Then we headed back to Missouri.

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Response to liberal N proud (Original post)

Mon Jul 3, 2017, 09:04 PM

102. I have had left lane drivers tell me that they are driving the speed limit and no one should be

going faster than that so no one should complain. They are probably the same people that lined up to vote for Trump in the election.

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Response to appleannie1943 (Reply #102)

Mon Jul 3, 2017, 09:34 PM

103. Not according to this thread

But I would have thought that, too. Slow left lane drivers remind me of Rightvwing conservatives. With their self righteousness and indignation with drivers they perceive to be aggressive.

"I am doing the speed limit or a limit which I deem to be appropriate. So it is okay for me to remain in the left lane. It is my right. No one should be passing me because that means they are doing something wrong and I don't agree with"

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Response to Proud liberal 80 (Reply #103)

Wed Jul 5, 2017, 11:28 AM

111. hmmm - I have always considered the agressive driver, the tailgater to be most likely be a

RW conservative trump-supporter. You know, the person who feels entitled to the left lane regardless of traffic conditions - pulling up on one's bumper and flashing their lights even though one is passing. The one who feels everyone is obligated to get out of their way - those that feel that is their lane and everyone should recognize that and relinquish space to their greed.

Yep - those are cleaerly exhibiting that 1%er entitled GOP behavior.

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Response to DrDan (Reply #111)

Wed Jul 5, 2017, 12:53 PM

112. Two key things that you stated

"Regardless of traffic conditions" and "Even though one was is passing"

My problem isn't with those drivers. It's with the ones in the left lane when traffic conditions do not warrant it or when they got over way too early to pass.

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Response to appleannie1943 (Reply #102)

Tue Jul 4, 2017, 08:33 AM

106. What makes people think they have to force other to conform?

It is an American thing and I am sick of it.

Live and let live.

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Response to liberal N proud (Reply #106)

Tue Jul 4, 2017, 12:06 PM

107. I agree with you. I have actually had a couple long arguments with people that think it is okay to

drive exactly the speed limit in the left lane. The reason for the Trump voter comparison is they were just as hard headed to reason and could not be convinced they were wrong.

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Response to appleannie1943 (Reply #107)

Tue Jul 4, 2017, 02:24 PM

108. Good comparison because both groups think they are obligated to force others to conform

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Response to liberal N proud (Original post)

Mon Jul 3, 2017, 09:50 PM

104. Excellent post!!! Left lane sluggards are also a pet peeve of mine.

I'm all over the west coast and Oregon is absolutely the worst for left lane hogs.

Not uncommon to have an oblivious driver in the left lane with a bunch of cars backed up behind, forcing everyone to pass on the right. The absolute worse was I-84 with a posted speed of 70 and a poke along at 55 in the left. My passenger jumped when I Bellowed "RAMMING SPEED"





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Response to liberal N proud (Original post)

Wed Jul 5, 2017, 06:42 PM

115. Was on a road trip today

Saw a sign and thought of this thread. The sign read "Left lane for passing only"......nothing extra like "unless you are going the speed limit" or "unless you are going a speed you deem appropriate "

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Response to Proud liberal 80 (Reply #115)

Thu Jul 6, 2017, 09:04 AM

119. Exactly

People think it is their responsibility to force others to conform.

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Response to liberal N proud (Original post)

Wed Jul 5, 2017, 06:59 PM

116. I made a trip to New Orleans and this guy cut me off on the way to Lakefront

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Response to liberal N proud (Original post)

Wed Jul 5, 2017, 07:22 PM

118. I've been doing a lot of driving lately-IL to KY

And only get in the left lane to pass or if the right lane is so bumpy I fear for my car.
I also hate people that undertake instead of overtaking.
Never thought I would say this, but I miss driving in England. Narrow roads (especially in rural areas) but on the motorways most people are sensible drivers.
Here, especially around Chicago and I-65 between Chicago and Indianapolis, is like a free for all.

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