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Thu Jun 22, 2017, 08:36 AM

 

I do believe that much of the criticism of

Nancy Pelosi is because she is such a strong independent woman in a leadership position. The same goes for Hillary.

Sure she is a lightening rod to rally the opposition but it seems to me that those qualities she has that they hate also rally some Dems against her.

I say that because she is such an effective leader and yet Dems ignore that fact when they make up their list of grevences against her.

I want effective leaders no matter what their sex or age is.

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Response to wasupaloopa (Original post)

Thu Jun 22, 2017, 09:04 AM

1. Agreed! Nancy and Hillary are wonderful leaders...would they rather have McConnell and Ryan who

would never be criticized for being the ugly morons they are by their own party. Progress not perfection!

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Response to wasupaloopa (Original post)

Thu Jun 22, 2017, 09:26 AM

2. Wasn't Pelosi instrumental in making sure Single Payer was never considered

for the ACA? Strong independent leadership right there.

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Response to PoindexterOglethorpe (Reply #2)

Thu Jun 22, 2017, 11:31 AM

4. Single payer would not have passed back then. She is smarter than many of us.

 

We may get single payer in CA and that is probably the way it will be put in place in this country.

Like so many issues on this board the pragmatists and the idealists see things differently. We need both but we must consider more than the ideal when the rubber meets the road.

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Response to wasupaloopa (Reply #4)

Fri Jun 23, 2017, 12:48 AM

5. Count me among those utterly furious that single payer was taken off the table at the very outset.

It should have been on the table. Obama, Pelosi, and all of them simply gave away what should have been a major negotiating point.

Yes, it would not have passed. But by taking it off the table, by blowing off any chance of considering it, that's why we wound up with the very flawed ACA. And why now, some years later, the Republicans are in a position to totally fuck all of us ov er.

Please do NOT try to heap praise on Nancy Pelosi for refusing to consider single payer. She was wrong. Wrong. Wrong.

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Response to PoindexterOglethorpe (Reply #5)

Fri Jun 23, 2017, 01:56 PM

6. Ok we disagree

 

Single payer is code for government paid for insurance. That is how the majority sees it.

If we went for single payer we would not have gotten the support we did for the ACA
Again it is idealism vs pragmatism

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Response to wasupaloopa (Reply #6)

Sat Jun 24, 2017, 03:01 AM

8. So, you have no problem with single payer not being on the table.

Gotcha.

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Response to PoindexterOglethorpe (Reply #2)

Fri Jun 23, 2017, 01:58 PM

7. Passing the ACA took great leadership.

 

That is known.

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Response to PoindexterOglethorpe (Reply #2)

Sat Jun 24, 2017, 05:58 AM

9. No- that was Joe Lieberman

https://mobile.nytimes.com/2009/12/14/health/policy

Thanks to Lieberman, Single Payer was taken out of the Senate version and when Senate version went to the House, it was clear that we didn't have the votes to put it back in - and even if we did, putting it back in would guarantee the bill a quick death on the House floor.

A truly effective Speaker knows her Caucus, understands the other party's caucus and count votes and knows exactly what can and cannot get passed.

And, very important, unless it advances a very specific strategic goal, she doesn't put things "on the table" or on the floor that she knows will never pass.

Pelosi had to crack heads, take names and kick ass in order to get the ACA passed as it was. She knew it wasn't perfect but the most important thing was to get a bill with everything we could get in it passed and signed into law - and then work to improve it over time. Even our most valued and historic pieces of legislation - the Social Security Act, Civil Rights Act, etc. - didn't start out as they exist now but were amended and improved incrementally.

Thank God that Nancy had enough sense, experience and backbone to stand up to the "Single Payer or bust" crowd and got the ACA passed into law. Too bad that too many of that crowd, ignorant of the process and pissed off because they didn't get the entire loaf at the first bake sale, threw a temper tantrum, turned on Obama and Pelosi in 2010 and turned over Congress and a majority of statehouses to the Republicans, guaranteeing that, instead of tweaking and upgrading ACA, we would spend the next seven years fighting to hang on to it.

So, yes - Nancy Pelosi. Is the very EPITOME of strong, independent leadership.

But yes, let's blame her for something Joe Lieberman and the Senate Dems did ...

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Response to wasupaloopa (Original post)

Thu Jun 22, 2017, 09:36 AM

3. Weak conservative men hate strong, independent, liberal women

The unwarranted criticism of strong, independent women serves one purpose: for weak, right-wing men to hide their cowardice behind a bully-boy macho mentality.

Unlike many Americans, who can't see through the ruse, we can and we'll call out right-wing men and their female allies as the deceitful cowards they are.

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