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Related: Editorials & Other Articles, Issue Forums, Alliance Forums, Region ForumsTim Ryan is one of the reasons we can't stick together.
Just heard him on Morning Joe. He is still campaigning against Nancy. And pushing the notion that the Democrats do not have an economic message to win back voters. Says touting training programs and creating jobs that don't exist is not a good strategy and then turns around and says we need apprentice jobs and good paying jobs support for small business. In the past he has blamed Hillary and Democrats in general for not having an economic message. That was not true then and is not true now. This is not "re-fighting the past election" but just giving evidence that the charges against our party of not having an economic message or economic plan are baseless:
https://www.hillaryclinton.com/issues/jobs/
http://www.ontheissues.org/2016/Hillary_Clinton_Jobs.htm
https://www.thebalance.com/hillary-clinton-economy-jobs-4083131
Trump's message of bigotry, racism, and misogyny and general hate for "those others" and his anti-immigration message is the difference no one wants to admit to but it is the REAL reason for a lot of the close losses in those red-purple areas. Couple that with the purist still sitting home and we will still be facing the same problems of the last election.
All of these "Democrats have no message- Democrats" can't or don't express the message they would use or want to use. Have not heard any one of them say anything close to a different message that Democratic candidates have said over the past two decades...and it has all been about the people and the working families.
Now Rep Rice of NY is doing and saying the same thing Tim Ryan just did. And they have no different message nor do the progressive spokespeople out there say anything differently. Get it straight, we are about to be victim of over-correction. We have had the right message since FDR and we almost can offer nothing different for the blue-collar worker in this changing economy and tech-driving environment unless we go back to being "Dixicrats" with their message of racism and exclusion.
Get real! we are not going to do that so the next best thing we can do to fight off the Trumpsters is to protect and fix our elections and the problems at the ballot box! There is where our latest problems lie. VOTERS AND VOTING!
JI7
(89,174 posts)OnDoutside
(19,906 posts)across as someone who doesn't have the solutions. He's hurting but his only answer to fixing that hurt, is get rid of Pelosi. It's inherently the glib answer to get rid of Pelosi, seeing as you already got beat out the gate by her, last November.
I said elsewhere that Kathleen Rice made a razor sharp point that Pelosi has a great rep for raising lots of money, but the Dems have been losing since 2010. The thing is that the Republicans have been able to have billions passed to them, in black money, from the likes of the Kochs, Mercers etc in the same time frame. You need that money if you want to compete. Better that the politicians like Ryan and Rice up THEIR game and fight the Reps instead of each other.
SharonClark
(10,005 posts)instead of each other".
I couldn't agree more.
Rene
(1,183 posts)Get them to shut up or step down. You two get out of Congress....let true Democrats replace you... not you two self centered rats.
OnDoutside
(19,906 posts)OKNancy
(41,832 posts)as a weapon and a talking point to help to defeat Oshoff in his election in a red district. Their appeal was to the right-wingers.
Now, Democrats are supposed to lay down and get rid of her because the Republicans don't like her.
Some Democrats ( mostly men) are fucking crazy creepy idiots.
bigtree
(85,917 posts)...little more happening here than malleable Democrats willingly or unwittingly jumping on the right wing bandwagon.
There seems to be almost no institutional memory or political common sense from folks who think bashing our Democratic leader after Dem's showing yesterday is good politics.
OKNancy
(41,832 posts)SO we should just abandon them too. Afterall, it's all about appeasing the White Working Class(tm)
This thinking pisses me off. It's not only politically naive, it's just plain stupid.
bigtree
(85,917 posts)...an anti-Democratic, anti-American nexus of Russians and republicans.
That's right, I said 'anti-American.' Anti-women, anti-LGBT, anti-black, anti-Muslim, anti-immigrant... a clear majority of the population.
Baconator
(1,459 posts)... Is using the same leadership, branding and tactics from 15 to 30 years ago and too many people have moved on.
Egnever
(21,506 posts)Democrats seem to be afraid of offending anyone ever. Any time they are faced with criticism they run.
Look to the 2010 elections when they ran away from the ACA. Now they are all supposedly warriors trying to protect it...
Had they actually fought for it in the first place instead of running in the face of opposition we would not be facing the nonsense we are now. Instead of informing the public in 2010 they passed it and ran from it, leaving the republicans to frame it unopposed. It took the law taking effect for people to actually realize what it did for them years after it was initially passed.
This is no different. Nancy was the most effective speaker ever during her time in the majority, Now because republicans are squeaking again instead of fighting for what they know is right they turn tail and cave. It makes me sick sometimes.
OnDoutside
(19,906 posts)EffieBlack
(14,249 posts)Hillary Clinton shouldn't have been the nominee because she was "flawed," "divisive" and Republicans hate her.
oasis
(49,151 posts)GoCubsGo
(32,061 posts)What shocks me is how willingly some Democrats DO lie down, like Tim Ryan and those who are spreading that shit here, too. Stop carrying the republicans' water for them, ffs!!!
seaglass
(8,170 posts)no outcry from Dems to step aside or resign.
1000x.
Instead of framing our own narrative, we sheepishly cloak ourselves in the Republican meme: Pelosi = bad. No Pelosi = winning.
Sounds as stupid as it is.
The only valid criticism I've heard is the Democratic Party needs a concise, coherent and positive message of its own, something that can be expressed clearly in under 30 seconds, something that worms its way into the public consciousness, a steady drumbeat evoking the vision and basic principles of the Democratic Party. Then we all get on the bandwagon and sing the song, again and again and again. Until everyone knows it; until there's no forgetting.
But the Pelosi shaming is just plain dumb. Not to mention self-defeating.
This is what I've always thought. The Republicans stick to the script and hammer home their message over and over and over and over until it sticks. They really do govern by bumper sticker. It's unfortunate, but it works. Democrats have no such discipline. In the run up to the 2010 slaughter, Democrats either hid or ran from Obama, and we got slaughtered. They should have been out there every day saying that the stimulus cut taxes for 95% of the population, and they should have hammered home that the idea of giving control back to the GOP only two years after the Recession was crazy! Why hand them the keys again?? Democrats seem to think that voters will remember everything that has happened, but the general electorate is only obsessed with the latest shiny object, and they don't keep with the day-to-day shenanigans like we do on DU. We literally have to hit them over the head with something before they'll remember it. Why do we never seem to get that message?
c-rational
(2,581 posts)Completely agree...took me a long time to develop these 5 points....I title it I want my country back. What do you think of these as a start.
I Want My Country Back
I propose the following 5 points to address the ills of our country, i.e. what the next President should do with his/her first week in office. Here is the list, Day 1 through 5.
1. Minimum wage of $15/hr.
2. Medicare for all. It has been too long without any input on how to solve our national problem by the AMA or the insurance companies. Lets solve it for them. Having 18% of our GDP go to our health care outcome is unacceptable. The problem has never been addressed truthfully. Thanks MSM. I say we pull 10% from the military budget and build national medical schools with applicants accepted on merit and graduating without debt they work in public health clinics for a reasonable salary. We should not be looking to make money off our fellow Americans sickness. Also, when our % of GDP rises this high is does affect our national security. This involves war powers act. Is not this how the interstate highway system was built so we could move military items around this country quickly. I would initially said improve the ACA but at this juncture even it were improved and included a public option, private insurance could not compete, nor should it in a so called Christian Country.
3. A four(4) trillion dollar infrastructure program over 10 years. With a national economy generating 160-180 trillion over that period to say you cannot afford to maintain your house is not only appalling it is failing in your fiduciary duty as a public servant to at least say what the right thing to do is. Thanks for nothing McConnell and Ryan.
4. A tax plan to make all sound over 30 years. This would include a significant inheritance tax of all estates over 10 billion. I would also suggest a 90% tax on all foreign money not brought back to the States within 6 months. When asked why he robbed banks, Butch Cassidy said thats where the money is. Well guess what, when you tax people you have to tax those that have it. And since too many moneyed morons refuse to open their eyes to reality, well, let a seasoned Democratic team help.
5. My Marshall plan for our country. Another trillion dollars invested over 10 years. Half to coal country. The men and women in his country brought china to the table and energy to the world. They were given the short end of the stick, then the coal companies ripped the tops off the mountains and left the tailings to pollute. Clean and heal the countryside and people. Start a Manhattan Energy project to find new ways to bring green power to all. The other half would go to the Midwest and manufacturing zones. If we want to be a community we need to act like one. Retool and adapt. Many of the old jobs will never come back. The art of making buggy whips was also lost. Change we must.
peggysue2
(10,811 posts)Now, it's a matter of crunching those 5 points into a powerful, memorable message. Number 1, for instance, represents a livable wage. Still can't believe Handel got away with actually saying she did not believe in a livable wage. She tried to wiggle her way around the statement but she said what she said because it represents the GOP's philosophy: keep the beggars beggars, fluff the nests of the donor class, aka the Koch brothers, Mercers et al.
The other 4 points = investment in our people and our country to ensure a stable, prosperous future. For everyone, not just the super wealthy. Healthcare should be a given: a healthy population=a healthy Nation. Yet we continue to hear the Republican rant that healthcare is a privilege, not a right. Or that somehow the sick only have themselves to blame due to unhealthy life styles.
Healthcare is also an enormous economic issue, as you clearly point out. But to strap that economic time bomb onto the backs of the poor or the sick, disabled and elderly is morally reprehensible. I'm now reading the back-in-the-day Republican meme: no one will be denied or die because there's always Emergency Room care.
Because that worked out so well in the past.
All these points link together be it health, environment, energy, employment, infrastructure, tax policy. etc. I like the idea of a renewed Marshall Plan for the country and our people. Hillary used this as I recall but it didn't get much play. But something like a Marshall Plan, a Manhattan Project , an over-arching idea, an umbrella that covers that sense of renewed purpose and principle while our eye is firmly focused on the future.
Because despite what the GOP says, that's where we're headed, the future.
Just ran across a Carl Sandburg line describing Chicago as "The City of Big Shoulders.' I think we could jump off something like that: the Democratic Party sees the country as 'A Nation of Big Shoulders,' ready to take on whatever comes our way.
c-rational
(2,581 posts)need to protect) and freedom from want and worry.
delisen
(6,039 posts)than building a "winning economic message." Seem to want others to do the heavy lifting.
If they have a superior plan there is nothing preventing them from proposing it. They have no trouble getting air time-unfortunately they use it to dump on the Democratic Party.
Their behavior just seems bizarre and self-serving to me.
Tim Ryan, Kathleen Rice, Krystal Ball
hatrack
(59,439 posts)So, I guess we can't have a Minority Leader/Speaker from either coast, or from New England, or from the Upper Midwest, or from the mid-Atlantic states, or from Colorado or New Mexico. And, as we all know, Hawaii isn't really part of America.
Because if we have Democratic leadership from any of those areas, Republicans will SAY BAD THINGS about them!
This argument is one of the weakest, most pathetic excuses for a "debate" I've ever seen.
broadcaster90210
(333 posts)White safiors drive me insane.
ismnotwasm
(41,921 posts)Demsrule86
(68,350 posts)He cannot be speaker...he comes from a red state and would not be able to fight effectively against Trump as he has to worry about re-election. I live in Ohio. He is my rep.
bigtree
(85,917 posts)...Ryan and Price make a poor case for leadership.
It reminds me of the primary challenge to Hillary - all noise and bluster, without any track record to indicate potential for success.
OnDoutside
(19,906 posts)EffieBlack
(14,249 posts)The Speaker is not the rah rah front person responsible for rallying the grassroots. They're the inside baseball person who keeps their caucus organized, whips votes and raises money.
Everyone seemed to think that was fine until a woman did it - and did it better than any man before her. Then they started judging her by standards that have nothing to do with her actual job and blaming her for bad campaigns and stupid decisions made by individual candidates and Democratic voters.
Vinca
(50,170 posts)seem to be too modest to tout what they've done. Democrats have done more for the working class than Republicans by a long shot. Ryan seemed to think we can't promote both economic and social justice at the same time. The only thing Democrats need to do is be louder and more aggressive. We're living in this bizarre reality show environment, so turn up the volume.
nikibatts
(2,198 posts)Neera Tanden
✔ @neeratanden
One important lesson is that when they go low, going high doesn't f**king work.
Vinca
(50,170 posts)nikibatts
(2,198 posts)Which is it? Loyal Democrats are damned if they do and damned if they don't. Going high is always better. It's mainly that a lot of good decent people have just opted out of the political scene altogether thanks to the "debbie downers" among us who find pleasure in holding grudges and chips on their shoulders.
bresue
(1,007 posts)Pelosi this or Pelosi that...however do you hear anything that Ryan stands for? Anything spectacular in congress? He does not have to wait for Pelosi to give him a leadership role...start being a leader. Start bringing unity...talk and work with Pelosi to bring about a stronger message.
wasupaloopa
(4,516 posts)What is the message we need to send? What do we need to become?
I am asking the "we need a change" folks.
I can say "change" too. That is the easy part. You can't sell me on change unless you give me specifics on why and what.
zentrum
(9,865 posts)......have a problem with messaging.
Tim Ryan on NPR this AM named the problem but was inarticulate on how to solve it.
But Pelosi doesn't seem to have or be the answer either.
There. Is that unified enough for everyone?
The truth is that if every Democrat spoke with the clarity and passion of Elizabeth Warren, we'd be in great shape. We need more Warrens. Where are they?
Adam Schiff is great at standing up to bullies. Is he part of the new messaging? I think so.
I think the future lies with Kamala Harris also.
Because what we're doing so far is not working. There will be no real unity until the Democrats take a serious look at what's wrong and address it in new ways. We can't keep doing what we've been doing and what has not worked, regardless of party loyalty. Party loyalty is not enough. We need new energy, new strategies and better messaging.
NewJeffCT
(56,827 posts)that Democrats suck at messaging - unlike Republicans who march in lock step to Frank Luntz's talking points and are great at repeating them in sound bites for the evening news, Democrats have never been that organized and coordinated (hence, my 80+ year old sig line "I'm not a member of an organized political party - I'm a Democrat."
Democrats win on a national level when we have a charismatic leader on the ticket - Bill Clinton in 92 and 96 and Obama in 08 and 12. We lose when our candidate - no matter how competent and smart - does not have that charisma - Dukakis is 88, Gore in 00, Kerry in 04 and Clinton in 16.
zentrum
(9,865 posts)......Luntz in the form of George Lakoff. He tears his hair out trying to get the Dem leadership to understand framing and basic compelling communication.
Which to me is beyond being disorganized. It's almost like the Dem office seekers are bad as politicians.
Your point about charisma at the top is a good one---and so let's hope the Democrats understand at least that. Could say more but don't enjoy being "alerted" on.
SharonClark
(10,005 posts)Congressman Tim Ryan is the U.S. Representative for Ohio's 13th District. He's served in Congress since 2003 and represents traditionally blue collar towns from Youngstown to Akron. He's a vocal supporter of unions and has led the charge on laws to crack down on currency manipulation by foreign countries.
A fiery and impassioned speaker, he's also an advocate for a more balanced life. He's authored books on meditation and healthy eating. He made headlines last year when he made a run for House Minority Leader.
All Democrats are welcome. This event is free of charge, although goodwill donations are always accepted. Because Cooney's is a bar, only those 21 and over may attend.
Congressman Ryan was a hit last time he was in Iowa. Join us in welcoming him back to Polk County!
Me.
(35,454 posts)SharonClark
(10,005 posts)George II
(67,782 posts)In my very last class in college (about 45 years ago) our adviser told us that in the course our working careers we would come across issues that we don't agree with. However, he told us that if we criticize what's going on, we had better be prepared to offer a solution.
I guess these guys never got that lecture.
lancelyons
(988 posts)We have to be the party of all people, not just the party that helps and supports minorities. We have to help poor folks, not just the ones that live in the cities but in towns and rural communities.
If we become just the party of Minorities then we become the minority.
Pelosi has been good for the Democratic party but it is ok to pass the torch to the next generation. It needs to happen.
JHan
(10,173 posts)make up a significant portion of the Dem base, republicans go on about Democrats being only the party of Minorities.
And here you are, repeating that same shit.
lancelyons
(988 posts)JHan
(10,173 posts)Last year was the first year issues pertaining to non-white groups had some prominence. When has an election not been about the "white working class" ?
lancelyons
(988 posts)We cant just have a focus on minority issues alone. The focus has to be on issues that effect others as well.
This is part of the reason the democrats lost votes in the Midwestern states.
JHan
(10,173 posts)mcar
(42,210 posts)Pelosi stands head and shoulders above him.
Horse with no Name
(33,956 posts)His white male privilege was nauseating.
WinkyDink
(51,311 posts)thar racist, misogynistic, xenophobic, faux-Christian hills!"
nikibatts
(2,198 posts)IronLionZion
(45,258 posts)Blaming each other is bad for us and has to stop.
Tim Ryan does make some very good points on apprenticeships and small businesses. Every small town anywhere in America needs plumbers, electricians, and other trade jobs. There are many small businesses who are closing not because of competition or anything in the business environment, but because there is no one taking over when the owners retire. Many small businesses in small town rural America don't have the high rents and property taxes and other costs of a large city.
Ever had any discussions with Trumpers about training programs and jobs programs? Trumpers don't think about stuff like we do. They don't value training or adapting to the new economy dominated by technology and cities. What appeals to them are nonsense like Make America Great Again and You're going to win so much you'll get sick of winning and we'll bring back lots of coal jobs as soon as we repeal Obama's oppressive climate laws. They want it to be easy and feel good.
Our policies are good but our messaging could use some improvement.
kentuck
(110,950 posts)Is he now under the bus?
nikibatts
(2,198 posts)I dislike the message he is sending.
NewJeffCT
(56,827 posts)with the next Democratic house leader? Are they going treat them with kid gloves? No, if Pelosi is gone, the next person out there will be just as big a target as Pelosi has been for the past 10-12 years.
Al Gore was seen by many Democrats and progressives as too moderate in 2000, hence the reason Nader got so many votes. Yet, Republicans painted him as a crazy radical treehugging commie to fire up their base and get them scared and turning out.
JCanete
(5,272 posts)direction.
He totally bucked the part of Sanders message that is actually resonating with the public, and pretended it was just about jobs...his own oversimplification of "the economic message." The economic message is that the game is rigged, and that the money is running the show in Washington and that the American people are being robbed. Ryan is clearly not the one to address that. He's prefers to blame the leadership and to ignore the forces that they actually have to contend with, which means he will be no different.
This is just rearranging deck chairs. A simple, "nothing personal", power play.
His manufacturing message is still silly. We are going to have less and less decent paying jobs, and that includes clean energy jobs as more and more automation goes into effect. We need far more populist messages than this. We need to start talking about a world where work is not fundamental to survival, but is a privilege towards greater wealth and comfort...is a privilege towards doing what we love and contributing to society.
He wants to blame the loss of Clinton only on Clinton and in the process, ignore the influence of the media in promoting Trump, hiding his incompetence, and inflating non-stories about Clinton-an element of money in politics. I agree, the sole focus on Comey and Russia is distracting from the biggest causes: but those are that the big money has been handing elections to Republicans for years through the media etc. But Ryan clearly doesn't want to tackle these realities either. There is blame to go around for Democrats, including Clinton, but a lot of that blame can be put at her feet for not loudly decrying the system as it functions, but instead, defending it. She ceded that message to Trump and let him be the outsider in every way...a business man who has made his money greasing palms in Washington and local governments.
okieinpain
(9,397 posts)nikibatts
(2,198 posts)And what is worse, a lot of Dems are falling for it all over again!
Hekate
(90,189 posts)Cha
(295,907 posts)Link to tweet
Link to tweet
Tim Ryan wanted to normalize and "work with trump" right off the bat.
He lost to Nancy and now he thinks he smells blood in the water