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Wed Jun 21, 2017, 12:47 AM

 

So would everyone posting these "he almost didn't lose" threads feel better if

someone gave Ossoff a participation trophy?

Moral victory my butt. A loss is a loss is a loss.

81 replies, 4725 views

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Reply So would everyone posting these "he almost didn't lose" threads feel better if (Original post)
Still In Wisconsin Jun 2017 OP
hrmjustin Jun 2017 #1
LBM20 Jun 2017 #37
hrmjustin Jun 2017 #39
NurseJackie Jun 2017 #63
hrmjustin Jun 2017 #70
Demsrule86 Jun 2017 #46
hrmjustin Jun 2017 #50
Demsrule86 Jun 2017 #56
hrmjustin Jun 2017 #69
Demsrule86 Jun 2017 #71
hrmjustin Jun 2017 #72
Eliot Rosewater Jun 2017 #77
Demsrule86 Jun 2017 #80
Demsrule86 Jun 2017 #54
True Dough Jun 2017 #2
Phoenix61 Jun 2017 #8
Still In Wisconsin Jun 2017 #10
True Dough Jun 2017 #29
Demsrule86 Jun 2017 #48
seaglass Jun 2017 #76
applegrove Jun 2017 #3
Still In Wisconsin Jun 2017 #9
blue neen Jun 2017 #11
Still In Wisconsin Jun 2017 #16
blue neen Jun 2017 #18
KPN Jun 2017 #22
Demsrule86 Jun 2017 #49
pnwmom Jun 2017 #62
applegrove Jun 2017 #20
leftynyc Jun 2017 #43
Bradical79 Jun 2017 #68
secondwind Jun 2017 #78
BlueStater Jun 2017 #4
blue neen Jun 2017 #5
Still In Wisconsin Jun 2017 #13
blue neen Jun 2017 #17
Still In Wisconsin Jun 2017 #19
KPN Jun 2017 #25
Demsrule86 Jun 2017 #51
Phoenix61 Jun 2017 #6
Mike B Jun 2017 #24
Phoenix61 Jun 2017 #27
Not Ruth Jun 2017 #32
pnwmom Jun 2017 #35
leftynyc Jun 2017 #44
KPN Jun 2017 #26
Warpy Jun 2017 #7
Post removed Jun 2017 #14
Warpy Jun 2017 #15
secondwind Jun 2017 #79
Motownman78 Jun 2017 #12
KPN Jun 2017 #21
Demsrule86 Jun 2017 #52
Azathoth Jun 2017 #23
Fait Accompli Jun 2017 #28
Wabbajack_ Jun 2017 #30
OnDoutside Jun 2017 #31
JI7 Jun 2017 #33
Softail1 Jun 2017 #34
JI7 Jun 2017 #38
ck4829 Jun 2017 #40
Demsrule86 Jun 2017 #58
LBM20 Jun 2017 #36
kcr Jun 2017 #41
Adrahil Jun 2017 #42
Demsrule86 Jun 2017 #45
bigtree Jun 2017 #47
LanternWaste Jun 2017 #53
Polly Hennessey Jun 2017 #55
pnwmom Jun 2017 #57
Demsrule86 Jun 2017 #59
pnwmom Jun 2017 #67
Demsrule86 Jun 2017 #73
Orsino Jun 2017 #60
Phentex Jun 2017 #61
jcmaine72 Jun 2017 #64
Still In Wisconsin Jun 2017 #66
NCTraveler Jun 2017 #65
yallerdawg Jun 2017 #74
Still In Wisconsin Jun 2017 #75
DonCoquixote Jun 2017 #81

Response to Still In Wisconsin (Original post)

Wed Jun 21, 2017, 12:49 AM

1. Agreed! I am tired of moral victories.

 

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Response to hrmjustin (Reply #1)

Wed Jun 21, 2017, 06:20 AM

37. I'm tired people thinkng it is oh so easy to flip DEEP RED districts. An 18point shift is GOOD NEWS!

 

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Response to LBM20 (Reply #37)

Wed Jun 21, 2017, 10:33 AM

39. No one said here it was easy.

 

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Response to hrmjustin (Reply #39)

Wed Jun 21, 2017, 12:32 PM

63. LOL

Yet the level of disappointment and dramatic hand-wringing... and all the recriminations coming from many around here suggest something entirely different. They may not have used those words (ie: "it will be easy" but their consternation and excessive emotional outbursts indicate that—however unrealistic—this was indeed their belief and expectation.

The people you're rushing to defend didn't have to say those exact words... the evidence speaks for itself.



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Response to NurseJackie (Reply #63)

Wed Jun 21, 2017, 01:06 PM

70. I am frustrated and expressing it.

 

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Response to hrmjustin (Reply #1)

Wed Jun 21, 2017, 11:23 AM

46. Right because some how we snap our fingers and win deeply red states...I don't understand...how

so many people can be so divorced from reality.

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Response to Demsrule86 (Reply #46)

Wed Jun 21, 2017, 11:27 AM

50. I never said it was easy so please don't put words in my mouth.i live in a red district in a blue

 

state and city so I know how hard it is to get rid of them thank you.

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Response to hrmjustin (Reply #50)

Wed Jun 21, 2017, 12:04 PM

56. I do too...

The point is it will be a long slog...and people need to understand that.

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Response to Demsrule86 (Reply #56)

Wed Jun 21, 2017, 01:05 PM

69. I agree and know what you are saying.

 

Last night was just frustrating and it reminded me how I felt election night last year.

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Response to hrmjustin (Reply #69)

Wed Jun 21, 2017, 01:07 PM

71. I wept last year because I knew what this would mean.

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Response to Demsrule86 (Reply #71)

Wed Jun 21, 2017, 01:08 PM

72. yep. I just don't get the stupidity of the American voter.

 

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Response to Demsrule86 (Reply #46)

Wed Jun 21, 2017, 01:52 PM

77. We could make this easier if we would all agree that we are ALL going to vote

for ANY democrat in November, 2018, no matter what, as if life on the planet itself is at stake,

Which it will be.

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Response to Eliot Rosewater (Reply #77)

Wed Jun 21, 2017, 02:41 PM

80. I vote for every Democrat every election...I wish we could all agree.

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Response to hrmjustin (Reply #1)

Wed Jun 21, 2017, 11:31 AM

54. I know damn it...why I believe we should win Texas and if we don't it is the DNC's

Last edited Wed Jun 21, 2017, 12:05 PM - Edit history (1)

fault and I want scalps...I need my fainting couch ...all is lost.



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Response to Still In Wisconsin (Original post)

Wed Jun 21, 2017, 01:01 AM

2. I don't feel better

I've seen a couple of posts from Republican-leaning friends (well, one is a full-blown Republican) gloating that Dems are 0-for-5 in special elections.

It's unfortunate, but what can one do? I'm sure not joining the conspiracy crowd that insists the elections were stolen. Just comes off as sour grapes.

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Response to True Dough (Reply #2)

Wed Jun 21, 2017, 01:09 AM

8. And why did we have special elections?

Because the people that held those seats were tapped by this administration. They didn't tap people that held vulnerable seats. They tapped people who held invincible seats. So no, we haven't won but we didn't get skunked either.

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Response to Phoenix61 (Reply #8)

Wed Jun 21, 2017, 01:11 AM

10. 0-5 is skunked. n/t

 

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Response to Still In Wisconsin (Reply #10)

Wed Jun 21, 2017, 02:05 AM

29. Yes it is.

Close only counts in horseshoes and hand grenades, as they say.

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Response to Still In Wisconsin (Reply #10)

Wed Jun 21, 2017, 11:24 AM

48. Well tell me how exactly would you have won these seats?

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Response to Phoenix61 (Reply #8)

Wed Jun 21, 2017, 01:51 PM

76. Continue making sense please and thank you. :-) n/t

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Response to Still In Wisconsin (Original post)

Wed Jun 21, 2017, 01:03 AM

3. We closed gaps. That is huge when presidential elections are only a few

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Response to applegrove (Reply #3)

Wed Jun 21, 2017, 01:10 AM

9. Close losses are no different than huge losses.

 

We closed the gaps. We lost by less. Good god

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Response to Still In Wisconsin (Reply #9)

Wed Jun 21, 2017, 01:11 AM

11. Still waiting on your solutions.

Thanks!

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Response to blue neen (Reply #11)

Wed Jun 21, 2017, 01:15 AM

16. Two posts down.

 

You're welcome.

Also, develop more candidates, recruit better people... basically build from the GROUND UP. We're probably stuck with TRUMP for seven more years, so let's work long term!

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Response to Still In Wisconsin (Reply #16)

Wed Jun 21, 2017, 01:18 AM

18. "We're probably stuck with TRUMP for seven more years"?

What is your deal? Join an Indivisible Group in your hometown or nearby. You'll feel better.

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Response to blue neen (Reply #18)

Wed Jun 21, 2017, 01:38 AM

22. Oh come on.

You're addressing a fellow Democrat here.

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Response to Still In Wisconsin (Reply #16)

Wed Jun 21, 2017, 11:26 AM

49. Bernie Sanders endorse every candidate except one...he thought they were good candidates.

I think Ossoff was a good candidate but wasn't going to win a deeply red state...consider that no matter what Democrat who ran would lose...cutting their margins was about all we could do.

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Response to Still In Wisconsin (Reply #16)

Wed Jun 21, 2017, 12:14 PM

62. You're advising giving up on the short term and rolling over for SEVEN YEARS?

Whose team would LOVE for us to do that?

Wake up. There won't be any long term if we give up on the short term.

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Response to Still In Wisconsin (Reply #9)

Wed Jun 21, 2017, 01:35 AM

20. You are wrong. If we closed gaps by 15 points that will be a blowout

Last edited Wed Jun 21, 2017, 02:44 AM - Edit history (2)

for us in 2018 across the country. GOP lost today. You help only the GOP in your desire to make this loss really hurt democrats.

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Response to Still In Wisconsin (Reply #9)

Wed Jun 21, 2017, 11:12 AM

43. Feel free to wallow all you like

 

These were not vulnerable seats (the reason these particular candidates were picked to work with donnie). There are purple and even red seats that were decided in 2016 by MUCH less than the 23 points that price won by in November. There are 70 seats in that category and we only need 24. THAT should be the focus. Don't want to listen to republican friends, try not having any because that works great for me. This "woe is me" crybaby crap is boring and pathetic.

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Response to Still In Wisconsin (Reply #9)

Wed Jun 21, 2017, 12:55 PM

68. Not true at all

 

This isn't a football game.

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Response to applegrove (Reply #3)

Wed Jun 21, 2017, 01:58 PM

78. Agreed

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Response to Still In Wisconsin (Original post)

Wed Jun 21, 2017, 01:04 AM

4. The disgraceful excuse of a human in the White House will get what's coming to him.

I don't know when it will happen, but I'm confident it will.

Until then, however.

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Response to Still In Wisconsin (Original post)

Wed Jun 21, 2017, 01:05 AM

5. You keep telling us that in thread after thread.

What are your solutions to the problem? Let's hear the suggestions!

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Response to blue neen (Reply #5)

Wed Jun 21, 2017, 01:12 AM

13. Build from the ground up. Build strong LOCAL apparatus, like the Repubs started

 

in the 1970's. Stop trying to live by the "one big strike" strategy and drawing to inside straights.

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Response to Still In Wisconsin (Reply #13)

Wed Jun 21, 2017, 01:16 AM

17. And that's exactly what the Democrats did in GA-06.

They worked on that ground game: calling voters, going door to door, working on get out the vote and early voting. They got results, and in 2018 they'll get even better results.

"Indivisible" groups are meeting all over the country, building strong local apparatus. You should check one out.

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Response to blue neen (Reply #17)

Wed Jun 21, 2017, 01:30 AM

19. I'm quite aware. And I am also aware that this can take years-decades really.

 

I'm not talking about opening a couple campaign offices in strip malls and canvassing. I'm talking about grooming and running candidates for city council, school board... hell for effing dog catcher.

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Response to blue neen (Reply #17)

Wed Jun 21, 2017, 01:48 AM

25. Interesting back and forth.

I may have had too much wine but I think you are both right. We didn't win. It's discouraging, almost demoralizing, we're feeling despair -- some of us. We also need a strategy. A long term one. One that shapes rather than just tries to win on the battlefield. This isn't a basketball game, it's a war (hopefully a peaceful one). We need to work on controlling the battleground. Then maybe we can win.

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Response to Still In Wisconsin (Reply #13)

Wed Jun 21, 2017, 11:27 AM

51. Yeah because we have thirty years to build without ending up in a fascist country...perhaps

a better solution exists.

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Response to Still In Wisconsin (Original post)

Wed Jun 21, 2017, 01:05 AM

6. LO had some great comments on the Ossoff race

The repubs thought it was going to be an easy win and it wasn't by a long shot. It was an expensive, hard fought race. What does that say about those races that are vulnerable? The general gist was any seat that wasn't won by a repub by 20 points is vulnerable. We need to get organized in every state. Not later, now and develop a campaign strategy. We can worry about the candidate later and tweak the strategy then.

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Response to Phoenix61 (Reply #6)

Wed Jun 21, 2017, 01:44 AM

24. "It was an expensive, hard fought race"?

 

It was only expensive for Jon Ossoff. His campaign spent $23.6 million, compared to Handel who only spent $4.5 million. Our party is taking a brutal beating in these elections, and all we can do is sit back and discuss how satisfied that we are for coming in second place? This type of thinking is part of the reason we are sliding downhill.

https://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2017/06/20/us/politics/georgia-6th-most-expensive-house-election.html

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Response to Mike B (Reply #24)

Wed Jun 21, 2017, 01:55 AM

27. Did you read that article?

Handel had support from PACs that spent 25 million on advertising. The special elections were all for seats that were solidly republican. So yes, I do think we did well. Way better than anyone expected. If we can do that well in solid repub areas I think there is every reason to think we will win in swing areas. The dem party dropped the 50 state strategy and we are paying for it now.

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Response to Phoenix61 (Reply #27)

Wed Jun 21, 2017, 04:27 AM

32. Atlanta profited

 

"An Atlanta television station added a 7 p.m. newscast to profit from the deluge of ads in the race"



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Response to Mike B (Reply #24)

Wed Jun 21, 2017, 06:05 AM

35. You left out the fact that outside groups spent far more on Handel.

She had 18.2 million versus his 7.6 million.

And she was very well known statewide -- in politics since 2003 and most recently Secretary of State -- he was a nobody.

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Response to Mike B (Reply #24)

Wed Jun 21, 2017, 11:13 AM

44. Gee

 

16 posts and all you're doing is LYING about how much money was spent on Handel on her race. Interesting.

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Response to Phoenix61 (Reply #6)

Wed Jun 21, 2017, 01:49 AM

26. Absolutely!

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Response to Still In Wisconsin (Original post)

Wed Jun 21, 2017, 01:09 AM

7. Are you kidding me?

Please don't forget this is Gingrich's district, about as blood red as you can get, yet Ossoff was within 3%.

You might be feeling wounded but rest assured, the GOP strategists are stunned it was this close, especially with the lousy weather holding the vote down, something generally in their favor.

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Response to Warpy (Reply #7)


Response to Post removed (Reply #14)

Wed Jun 21, 2017, 01:14 AM

15. Maybe. I don't drink so I can't relate

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Response to Warpy (Reply #7)

Wed Jun 21, 2017, 02:04 PM

79. Bingo! We REALLY need to think of the bigger picture instead of being so negative

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Response to Still In Wisconsin (Original post)

Wed Jun 21, 2017, 01:12 AM

12. Because I am not a negative person

 

and think in the long term. 20% of Repub voters in 2016 voted Dem. That is a huge step forward. Do you think Kasich would be screwing up enough to let us make a gain that big?

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Response to Still In Wisconsin (Original post)

Wed Jun 21, 2017, 01:35 AM

21. Haha. Almost didn't lose!"

Thanks for the grin this grim evening.

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Response to KPN (Reply #21)

Wed Jun 21, 2017, 11:28 AM

52. so negative...what exactly do you hope to accomplish?

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Response to Still In Wisconsin (Original post)

Wed Jun 21, 2017, 01:41 AM

23. Presidents never appoint cabinet members from competitive states/districts

This is a district that voted for Tom fucking Price by 24 points.

Competitive in this district means a win in any swing district.

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Response to Still In Wisconsin (Original post)

Wed Jun 21, 2017, 02:01 AM

28. And why is it only a moral victory when a centrist almost wins?

 

Quist had the highest percentage of the vote for a Democrat in a Montana house race in the past four election cycles. I didn't hear much talk about a "moral victory" after his loss.

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Response to Still In Wisconsin (Original post)

Wed Jun 21, 2017, 02:06 AM

30. The other ones are one thing

but Democrats expected to win this one, there is no spinning it, bad result.

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Response to Wabbajack_ (Reply #30)

Wed Jun 21, 2017, 02:47 AM

31. And an expensive price for a moral victory. We need to choose

Our battles with a bit more thought.

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Response to Still In Wisconsin (Original post)

Wed Jun 21, 2017, 04:36 AM

33. Congressional Elections are Held every 2 Years plus special elections as in this case

whether he won or lost there would be another election in 2018 . how we view that future election would depend on the results of this election.

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Response to Still In Wisconsin (Original post)

Wed Jun 21, 2017, 05:58 AM

34. here's a thought

 

maybe we should think about the words we use when describing the other side a little...I have seen threads making fun of Handles face...and her weight. We are becoming experts at thinking up new and exciting derogatory descriptions, and keep losing these elections. I'm as pissed off as anyone about it, but we NEED some of these "deplorables" to vote with us once in a while, and call me crazy, but insulting them daily might not be the best strategy. Maybe...MAYBE that could help....

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Response to Softail1 (Reply #34)

Wed Jun 21, 2017, 06:22 AM

38. they voted for Trump also so lets not pretend this is about something we clearly know it isn't about

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Response to Softail1 (Reply #34)

Wed Jun 21, 2017, 10:42 AM

40. Huh, so we need to be PC with them?

The thing they hate so much, ironic.

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Response to Softail1 (Reply #34)

Wed Jun 21, 2017, 12:06 PM

58. Here is as thought...no. I will call them out on their racism...the voted for a candidate

who said people don't need a living wage.

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Response to Still In Wisconsin (Original post)

Wed Jun 21, 2017, 06:18 AM

36. And math is math is math. Can people please stop the non-reality posts that we can magically

 

win DEEP RED districts.

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Response to Still In Wisconsin (Original post)

Wed Jun 21, 2017, 11:07 AM

41. That's right! Keep using that stick to beat down Dems and help the GOP.

Good thinking. Your strategy is WAY better!

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Response to Still In Wisconsin (Original post)

Wed Jun 21, 2017, 11:09 AM

42. Aren't you a ray of sunshine!

 

Yeah, he lost. I'd rather he won. But he did shave the margin of victory down considerably. I was one who always thought we were chasing fool's gold there, but there ya go.

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Response to Still In Wisconsin (Original post)

Wed Jun 21, 2017, 11:22 AM

45. Right because we always win that district.

It is unbelievable that we lost a district that is so us...believing the core Democratic values and all...yes I am being sarcastic because while I hoped we might win ...I knew it was a long shot. We have come close in very red districts and that means something...we shall have to see if the GOP gerrymander holds in 18.

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Response to Still In Wisconsin (Original post)

Wed Jun 21, 2017, 11:24 AM

47. a little honesty would be nice

...instead of this bullshit representation of the arguments for optimism.

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Response to Still In Wisconsin (Original post)

Wed Jun 21, 2017, 11:30 AM

53. They'd probably feel better if irrelevant and petulant questions were kept to oneself.

They'd probably feel better if irrelevant and petulant questions were kept to oneself.

Yet thinking about, I'm sure we'd all feel better were that actually applied...

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Response to Still In Wisconsin (Original post)

Wed Jun 21, 2017, 11:42 AM

55. Right!

A loss is a loss- period. No nuance. You win or you lose. You come in first or you come in second. History has already told us - "To the victor go the spoils." How hard is that to understand.

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Response to Still In Wisconsin (Original post)

Wed Jun 21, 2017, 12:06 PM

57. And anyone who spreads despair and hopelessness is helping the other side.

The REALITY is that this was Newt Gingrich's old district and a long shot at best.

The REALITY is that the Rethugs were divided over 11 candidates in the primary but for this run-off they -- not surprisingly -- joined together behind the party's nominee.

The REALITY is that pushing people's face in a loss doesn't help them to heal or to take positive action.

So what is the goal behind your OP? Because it appears you want to make people feel worse, and that's not going to help anyone -- except the other side.

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Response to pnwmom (Reply #57)

Wed Jun 21, 2017, 12:08 PM

59. and I question their motivation.

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Response to Demsrule86 (Reply #59)

Wed Jun 21, 2017, 12:50 PM

67. And to answer that we need to ask

who are they helping with their posts? Not the Dems.

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Response to pnwmom (Reply #67)

Wed Jun 21, 2017, 01:09 PM

73. Exactly right...division is what they want which they must know will elect the GOP.

Some who call themselves Progressive (they are no such thing) hate Democrats.

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Response to Still In Wisconsin (Original post)

Wed Jun 21, 2017, 12:10 PM

60. Well, since there will never be another election, ever...

...shrinking GOP electoral majorities can't possibly be significant.

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Response to Still In Wisconsin (Original post)

Wed Jun 21, 2017, 12:13 PM

61. I think the cheese stands alone.

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Response to Still In Wisconsin (Original post)

Wed Jun 21, 2017, 12:36 PM

64. I agree. It's like watching Red Sox fans the day after the 1986 World Series ended celebrating their

team coming within one out of winning the Series in game 6. Sometimes, a knee to the groin is just that...a knee to the groin, without anything redeemable or salvageable to take from the experience.

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Response to jcmaine72 (Reply #64)

Wed Jun 21, 2017, 12:48 PM

66. Dammit Mookie...

 

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Response to Still In Wisconsin (Original post)

Wed Jun 21, 2017, 12:43 PM

65. "participation trophy"

 

Hmmmmmm. I've seen that trotted out somewhere before. Next up, a strike at liberal elitists.

Seems the world is binary to you and has something to do with "participation trophy's".

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Response to Still In Wisconsin (Original post)

Wed Jun 21, 2017, 01:11 PM

74. If you're a Democrat in Wisconsin...

you know what you speak of - loss after loss after loss...

And Wisconsin is a part of the "Blue Wall?"

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Response to yallerdawg (Reply #74)

Wed Jun 21, 2017, 01:46 PM

75. Wisconsin was part of the blue wall. It is now a deep red state.

 

It's like being a Packer fan from about '75 or so up until the early/mid 90's- loss after loss after loss, as you said, and the strategy/methods never change. The state party is in shambles. The entire thing has to be re-built from the ground up, because the state is no longer the progressive bastion it once was. Winning Wisconsin at this point would/will be like winning Kansas- a long term project.

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Response to Still In Wisconsin (Original post)

Wed Jun 21, 2017, 03:39 PM

81. we cannot deny a loss, however

If you expect we can get a winning record without a few hard losses, you are supporting magical thinking. It will take races that we know we do not have a shot of winning, but that we know will make them bleed cash, exert effort, and say the stupid things that we can remind people of. It will take time. Now, we can take the lesson and stop thinking Republicans have any spine, but appeal to the independents. THE GOP loves Trump, even if, indeed, because he acts like an abusive husband that beats his wife to an inch of her life and still demands dinner be on the table. We need to make the Trump votes less relevant by getting bigger numbers, not by hoping they will finally see the light. However, crying because we have not done magic in a year, is not the way to win. This will be ugly, and long.

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