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Wed Jun 14, 2017, 09:24 AM

David Frum


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Arrow 41 replies Author Time Post
Reply David Frum (Original post)
babylonsister Jun 2017 OP
Hoyt Jun 2017 #1
chelsea0011 Jun 2017 #9
salin Jun 2017 #11
xor Jun 2017 #24
JI7 Jun 2017 #10
justiceischeap Jun 2017 #2
underpants Jun 2017 #8
NightWatcher Jun 2017 #3
njcpa1978 Jun 2017 #41
Tommy_Carcetti Jun 2017 #4
malaise Jun 2017 #19
lunatica Jun 2017 #20
BeyondGeography Jun 2017 #5
Baitball Blogger Jun 2017 #6
wasupaloopa Jun 2017 #7
Still In Wisconsin Jun 2017 #12
calimary Jun 2017 #13
Still In Wisconsin Jun 2017 #14
calimary Jun 2017 #15
calguy Jun 2017 #27
Still In Wisconsin Jun 2017 #28
gilbert sullivan Jun 2017 #30
calimary Jun 2017 #34
gilbert sullivan Jun 2017 #35
Beartracks Jun 2017 #17
gilbert sullivan Jun 2017 #31
krispos42 Jun 2017 #38
OnlinePoker Jun 2017 #16
Big_K Jun 2017 #25
Angry Dragon Jun 2017 #18
trof Jun 2017 #21
malaise Jun 2017 #23
Honeycombe8 Jun 2017 #22
pablo_marmol Jun 2017 #26
Tommy_Carcetti Jun 2017 #32
pablo_marmol Jun 2017 #33
Honeycombe8 Jun 2017 #29
jmg257 Jun 2017 #36
Honeycombe8 Jun 2017 #37
krispos42 Jun 2017 #39
Honeycombe8 Jun 2017 #40

Response to babylonsister (Original post)

Wed Jun 14, 2017, 09:26 AM

1. Dang, Frum seems to have seen the light lately on guns, white wingers/GOPers, etc.

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Response to Hoyt (Reply #1)

Wed Jun 14, 2017, 10:15 AM

9. When exactly did he leave the Dark Side? I remember him being one of the Bush people

who would infuriate me.

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Response to chelsea0011 (Reply #9)

Wed Jun 14, 2017, 10:29 AM

11. around 2010 he started writing increasingly critical pieces of the GOP

particularly about the fealty to Fox news, that the gop-related media industrial complex was started to drive the GOP and not the other way around, and sounding sirens regarding the increasingly regressive nature of the GOP. Perhaps it was revulsion with the tea party.

He got hit by the right, was pushed out (I think) of his cushy libertarian think tank job and eventually landed at The Atlantic.

Wouldn't say he has turned liberal - by a long shot. But often snarky and snide to the modern GOP antics.

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Response to salin (Reply #11)

Wed Jun 14, 2017, 07:34 PM

24. Agreed. He's totally not a liberal. I've heard him a couple podcasts

He is for sure not a fan of the current republican party, but far from being liberal.

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Response to Hoyt (Reply #1)

Wed Jun 14, 2017, 10:18 AM

10. i think other than being a neocon when it comes to foreign policy

He leans moderate and on social issues liberal.

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Response to babylonsister (Original post)

Wed Jun 14, 2017, 09:26 AM

2. The background checks is wrong

It's no bkg checks for private sales

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Response to justiceischeap (Reply #2)

Wed Jun 14, 2017, 10:12 AM

8. Correct

Every state has background checks for non-private sales, I think.

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Response to babylonsister (Original post)

Wed Jun 14, 2017, 09:27 AM

3. So why weren't the Congressmen carrying guns while they played ball?

Because its stupid, not practical?

But thats what they tell us when theres a shooting at a mall or movie, or elementary school.

Protection comes from the police and not from we ourselves carrying guns like its the Wild West.

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Response to NightWatcher (Reply #3)

Thu Jun 22, 2017, 08:56 AM

41. Ex Marine

Over 40 years later, I still remember marksmanship training in boot camp. Respect your weapon. We have all seen videos of a firefight. Could you imagine that on a ball field with a bunch of untrained assholes? I could see that headline now, 'Special elections required as Republican Congress annihilated in a swarm of bullets.'

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Response to babylonsister (Original post)

Wed Jun 14, 2017, 09:28 AM

4. Remember the Naval Yard shooter a few years back?

Bought a gun in Virginia with very little problem despite very obvious mental health signs.

Drove across the Potomac to the DC Naval Yard and used it to shoot multiple people.

And yet the NRA talking point was that DC's strict gun laws didn't prevent the shooting.

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Response to Tommy_Carcetti (Reply #4)

Wed Jun 14, 2017, 05:05 PM

19. Didn't ReTHUGs remove the mental health checks recently? n/t

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Response to malaise (Reply #19)

Wed Jun 14, 2017, 05:44 PM

20. Yes. They did

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Response to babylonsister (Original post)

Wed Jun 14, 2017, 09:33 AM

5. He's leaving out the key issue though

LIBRULLS.

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Response to babylonsister (Original post)

Wed Jun 14, 2017, 09:36 AM

6. D'oh!

Well, at least they don't have a law like they have in Florida where you can shoot someone that's passing you on a dog walk and it's okay because you don't have to prove you feared for your life.

It's called, "Stand your Line of Vision"

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Response to babylonsister (Original post)

Wed Jun 14, 2017, 09:40 AM

7. A woman at the shooting said she saw the gunman with the rifle

called 911.

That would be the action of most of us but the guy had every right to walk around with an AR15 type rifle.

We are at the mercy of the gun owner. Is he a good guy with a gun or a bad guy with a gun. When he shoots we offer thoughts and prayers. We are impotent

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Response to wasupaloopa (Reply #7)

Wed Jun 14, 2017, 10:30 AM

12. Yup. The Thoughts and Prayers Squad is out in full force today.

Everyone from TRUMP on down is expressing those thoughts and prayers.

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Response to Still In Wisconsin (Reply #12)

Wed Jun 14, 2017, 12:15 PM

13. And they're the same ones who, when they have the chance actually to put those

thoughts and prayers into REAL-LIFE practice, will refuse to do so.

I find myself hoping that Steve Scalise will not only recover, but will start to reassess his feelings about guns and how easy they are to acquire, how easy it is for ANY messed-up pseudo-aggrieved asshole to get ahold of any damn guns and massacre machines he feels like. And yes, I said "he." Because the perpetrators at these tragedies TEND TO BE male, young-to-middle-age, and white.

This is DOMESTIC TERRORISM.

This is also an opportunity for Steve Scalise to be a true and courageous leader.

But I'm not holding my breath. I remember after John Lennon was shot and killed. By that young messed-up white weirdo loner asshole. And because Reagan was the President-Elect at that time, of course he was sought out for comment. And he offered one of these sick mealy-mouthed poor-excuse quips about how this was a very sad thing but we can't do anything to deprive people of their guns.

Then, a few months later, Reagan himself was the victim of yet another young messed-up white weirdo loner asshole - with a gun. Who was able to get a gun. Who had absolutely no business being anywhere near guns, but still somehow got one. And then was able to take it wherever he wanted and do whatever he pleased with it before he was apprehended. And dammit if Reagan didn't respond the exact same way: "but... but... but... we can't do anything that would deprive people of their guns."

Their precious fucking Goddamn guns.

Hey, leaders of America, save your meaningless "thoughts and prayers." DO SOMETHING ABOUT THE DAMN GUN PROBLEM!!!!!

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Response to calimary (Reply #13)

Wed Jun 14, 2017, 12:23 PM

14. I hope he recovers fully, of course.

Then, I hope he has a James Brady moment where he realizes that the guns ARE part of the problem after all.

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Response to Still In Wisconsin (Reply #14)

Wed Jun 14, 2017, 12:40 PM

15. Well put. Let's hope several of them on that side have a "James Brady moment."

In particular, those lucky ones who didn't have to pay for the experience with their own blood.

For all our sakes.

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Response to Still In Wisconsin (Reply #14)

Wed Jun 14, 2017, 08:26 PM

27. There's something about feeling a real actual bullet rip into your body

It gives a man a whole different perspective about his past feelings on the subject.

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Response to calguy (Reply #27)

Wed Jun 14, 2017, 08:29 PM

28. My dad (USMC) was wounded in Korea...

and he is the most ardent supporter of strict gun control you will ever meet.

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Response to calimary (Reply #13)

Thu Jun 15, 2017, 02:25 PM

30. Do you think there's really any chance to separate decent law abiding citizens

 

from their defensive guns?

If someone can craft a law that will actually ensure that guns won't get into the hands of criminals
and terrorists, I'll support it but I have no idea what sort of language will magically persuade such
people to suddenly start obeying the law.

The fanatical advocates of more and more "common sense gun control" are much like the Little Moron in the
old joke, where he had his car taken to the shop and told them "The brakes don't work, put in a louder horn".

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Response to gilbert sullivan (Reply #30)

Thu Jun 15, 2017, 08:32 PM

34. Welcome to DU, gilbert sullivan.

I would respond by throwing it back to you. So then we do NOTHING????? This wretched status quo is okay with you? You're okay lettin' 'er ride? No need to make changes - everything's mellow - nothin' to see here - yeah, may be broken but we definitely can't fix it so why bother? What if the next wanton reckless gunshot victim is someone YOU love?

So then we do NOTHING????????????????????

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Response to calimary (Reply #34)

Fri Jun 16, 2017, 01:03 PM

35. What exactly is it you want us to do?

 

i notice you didn't have any suggestions for a 'common sense law' that would address my query in the previous post. I'll try again,
what words in a new (or modified) law will significantly reduce the ability of criminals and terrorists to obtain, possess and potentially use as many guns as they want?

I submit that the extreme position of employing a ban on guns would be even more stupid that Prohibition was a century ago.

And thanks for the welcome!

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Response to wasupaloopa (Reply #7)

Wed Jun 14, 2017, 01:49 PM

17. Yes. Can't tell good guy from bad guy til they shoot something...

... but by then it's too late.

==============

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Response to Beartracks (Reply #17)

Thu Jun 15, 2017, 02:25 PM

31. The solution is obvious

 

put everyone in jail because they might commit a crime in the future.

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Response to wasupaloopa (Reply #7)

Sat Jun 17, 2017, 06:16 PM

38. It seems the more Democrats push for gun regulation...

...the fewer regulations there are, overall.

For what it's worth, I think it's because the Democratic Party has supported a lot of things that are capable of achieving a reasonable amount of support but that the support is ultimately fairly shallow, causing losses to Republicans. People that don't own guns and never will don't give a crap about how hard/expensive/time-consuming the laws make getting one, and don't generally vote based on it. People that own guns, they do. I live in Connecticut, and the Democratic governor wanted to more than quadruple the fee to get a pistol permit. Gun owners mobilized, non-gun-owners didn't. I think it was defeated.

I'm generally pro-gun; however I don't believe that open-carry should be legal inside of town or city limits unless there's some kind of extreme civil emergency. If you want to do that, get a permit, a holster, and a Hawaiian shirt to cover it up. But it's what we have because of Republicans running things.

With Captain Cheeto in the White House, the dullard Ryan running the House, and slow-evil McConnell in the Senate, bills are going to be passed that are going to kill far far more Americans than the go-to gun-control measures that Democrats reach for when this happens.

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Response to babylonsister (Original post)

Wed Jun 14, 2017, 12:50 PM

16. The shooter was from Illinois, not Virginia.

What are the gun regs there?

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Response to OnlinePoker (Reply #16)

Wed Jun 14, 2017, 07:37 PM

25. Required to have a Firearm Owner's Identification Card

And I believe there is a 3 day waiting period for handguns. He did have a FOID.

I now live in Paul Ryan-ville, where Scott Walker removed the waiting period for handguns a couple of years ago.

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Response to babylonsister (Original post)

Wed Jun 14, 2017, 05:03 PM

18. No problem

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Response to babylonsister (Original post)

Wed Jun 14, 2017, 06:32 PM

21. Karma can be a bitch.

That is all.

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Response to trof (Reply #21)

Wed Jun 14, 2017, 07:03 PM

23. And then some

That is all

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Response to babylonsister (Original post)

Wed Jun 14, 2017, 07:01 PM

22. No background checks? Wow. Unbelievable. nt

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Response to babylonsister (Original post)

Wed Jun 14, 2017, 08:02 PM

26. Great idea. Let's double-down and give 45 another term.

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Response to pablo_marmol (Reply #26)

Thu Jun 15, 2017, 02:30 PM

32. Funny how you only seem to show up here for events like these. nt

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Response to Tommy_Carcetti (Reply #32)

Thu Jun 15, 2017, 02:52 PM

33. Consider the possibility (reality, actually)


that I agree with all doctrines of the Democratic Party except "gun control" -- and understand better than most the political damage that our dishonesty causes. Don't really see much point in singing along with the choir.

The fact of the matter is that I've been quite restrained in confronting lies relating to "assault weapons", "gun show loopholes", "internet sales without background checks" etc.

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Response to babylonsister (Original post)

Thu Jun 15, 2017, 10:51 AM

29. The shooter was from Illinois. My bro says all states do background checks...it's federal law.

Some states do additional background checks, but federal law requires all gun sales to use background checks, my brother says. He has guns.

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Response to Honeycombe8 (Reply #29)

Fri Jun 16, 2017, 01:21 PM

36. Purchase from a dealer - background check. Typically private sales it is not required.

Virginia is one such state. +/-19 states have enacted laws saying all sale/transfers must be through a dealer.

"Virginia has no law requiring a background check on the purchaser of a firearm when the seller is not a licensed dealer. Virginia law does, however, prohibit any person from selling, bartering, giving or furnishing, or having in his or her possession or under his or her control with the intent of selling, bartering, giving or furnishing, any firearm to any person he or she knows is: {prohibited to buy a gun}"

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Response to jmg257 (Reply #36)

Fri Jun 16, 2017, 05:31 PM

37. I see. Thanks. nt

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Response to Honeycombe8 (Reply #37)

Sat Jun 17, 2017, 06:23 PM

39. Sales from licenced gun dealers (new guns and some used guns) all go through background checks

Interstate sales (new or used) also go through background checks. I purchased one recently from out-of-state; it was sent to a local dealer, who performed the check (for a fee) before handing over my used gun.

Intra-state sales depend on state laws. In Connecticut, private-to-private sales don't go through a dealer, but the buyer and seller have to have a permit (long gun, handgun, or concealed handgun) and fill out a form. The seller called the State Police and reads in the information on the form (permit numbers, addresses, names, gun type, make, model, caliber, serial number, etc.) and then runs a background check. If the sale is approved, the seller can then transfer the gun, but a copy of the form is mailed to both the State Police and the police department of the buyer.

Other states have different laws.

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Response to krispos42 (Reply #39)

Sat Jun 17, 2017, 07:31 PM

40. Wow. Complicated. Thx. nt

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