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Sun Jun 11, 2017, 10:03 PM

Two things that DU'ers get wrong every time

1. Trump wouldn't fire Mueller because all hell would break loose.

2. There will come a tipping point in which Trump's baggage will outweigh his good and the Repulsicans will impeach.


No hell will break loose if Trump dismisses Mueller. The GOP has no conscience. Nor do their constituents. Even if Trump admitted colluding with the Russians, Republicans from east to west and north to south would dig in deeper. They do not intend to release their stranglehold, particularly after grabbing power so completely. They relish the fact that liberals are powerless in Congress to undermine them. With no fear of reprisal, Mueller's growing investigation will only embolden them. They won't buckle. They will continue what they're doing, thumb their noses at us, and challenge us to beat them in 2018 and 2020, which we may be able to do....except, of course, that the fix is already in for those elections too.

Tipping point? Won't happen. For that it would take FOX and Rush and all the gang to throw Trump under the bus, and why would they do that when they can simply continue to produce unsubstantiated garbage aka propaganda to counter the truth, and then establish a false equivalency? Bait the peanut gallery into believing in a deep state and exploit their knee jerk hatred of "liberals".

Our only hope remains with a relentless intelligence community and judiciary. And even that may not be enough.

I guess I need my fix of Rachel to return a bit of optimism into my perspective.

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Arrow 33 replies Author Time Post
Reply Two things that DU'ers get wrong every time (Original post)
Mr. Ected Jun 2017 OP
bettyellen Jun 2017 #1
DanTex Jun 2017 #2
Mr. Ected Jun 2017 #3
Les Cowbell Jun 2017 #13
Hortensis Jun 2017 #29
Phoenix61 Jun 2017 #4
pnwmom Jun 2017 #10
sharedvalues Jun 2017 #5
Duppers Jun 2017 #12
sharedvalues Jun 2017 #31
Bettie Jun 2017 #6
Tatiana Jun 2017 #7
unblock Jun 2017 #8
Jeffersons Ghost Jun 2017 #9
AlexSFCA Jun 2017 #15
Demsrule86 Jun 2017 #26
sandensea Jun 2017 #11
AlexSFCA Jun 2017 #16
sandensea Jun 2017 #17
Demsrule86 Jun 2017 #25
AlexSFCA Jun 2017 #14
Demsrule86 Jun 2017 #24
cwydro Jun 2017 #18
JTFrog Jun 2017 #19
cwydro Jun 2017 #20
Mr. Ected Jun 2017 #32
Demit Jun 2017 #33
kentuck Jun 2017 #21
beachbum bob Jun 2017 #22
Demsrule86 Jun 2017 #23
delisen Jun 2017 #27
njhoneybadger Jun 2017 #28
cyclonefence Jun 2017 #30

Response to Mr. Ected (Original post)

Sun Jun 11, 2017, 10:10 PM

1. None of us know what will happen. I'd expect if he fired Mueller the leaks would rain down and it

 

Would effect the next years greatly.

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Response to Mr. Ected (Original post)

Sun Jun 11, 2017, 10:13 PM

2. I mostly agree.

I definitely don't think the Republicans will impeach him. I think he probably won't fire Mueller, but it wouldn't surprise me terribly if he did.

To me, the whole point of this is to weaken Trump politically, block his legislative agenda, and win in 2018 and 2020. Nothing will really change without winning elections. I think Pence would be worse than Trump, because there would be less scandals, but the same right-wing program.

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Response to DanTex (Reply #2)

Sun Jun 11, 2017, 10:17 PM

3. I wish I thought the upcoming elections might shift the majority in the House

But until we ensure that the Russians aren't actively involved in throwing another election, I think that is far from a given.

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Response to DanTex (Reply #2)

Mon Jun 12, 2017, 12:51 AM

13. Your second paragraph here is right on

 

I hate to share your original post's pessimism but it is well-deserved.

There has been a 30 year war against democracy and the result is one side with power, no ethics and a loyalty not to country but to serving those at the very top.

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Response to DanTex (Reply #2)

Mon Jun 12, 2017, 06:20 AM

29. I don't agree the entire point is political. People who voted

for rump almost uniformly insist this is just our version of their fake scandals. To do that they have to ignore that real crimes and attacks on our electoral system have taken place, and that congress has a mandate to protect our nation by investigating them.

Congress has a huge duty in this matter, and this investigation simply cannot be sloughed off to another decade. Only one party is so severely corrupted that it endangers our nation, which leaves it to mostly the other party to protect it.

Otherwise, I agree with you, certainly about Pence, although it's possible findings of the investigation could force even a pub-dominated congress to remove him before 2018.

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Response to Mr. Ected (Original post)

Sun Jun 11, 2017, 10:18 PM

4. Twitler can't fire Mueller

Rosenstein would have to do that as Sessions recused himself. If he refused to fire Meuller then Twitler could fire both Sessions and Rosenstein and appoint someone who would fire Meuller. Nixon tried that and we know how that turned out.

I think there is a tipping point. There is no loyalty among thieves. The moderate repubs are getting nervous. Hell, even Rubio was asking real questions at Comey's hearing. They care a lot more about getting reelected than they do about passing legislation. If they do manage to repeal the ACA they are sunk.

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Response to Phoenix61 (Reply #4)

Sun Jun 11, 2017, 11:15 PM

10. If Sessions is forced to resign, then the replacement wouldn't be recused

and might be willing to fire Mueller.

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Response to Mr. Ected (Original post)

Sun Jun 11, 2017, 10:18 PM

5. DJT may fire Mueller. But the FBI has a plan.

Comey and Rosenstein had a plan if he got fired. That plan brought us Mueller.


Mueller and I bet Rosenstein too have a plan if Mueller gets fired. At that point we are in full-scale Constitutional crisis.
My guess is that Mueller has gotten his most important evidence to enough civil servants in the FBI that if he gets fired, the evidence gets leaked slowly to the press. Slowly is key because it controls the news cycle. Perhaps the plan is also to get CIA and NSA to go public with important evidence they have. And I wouldn't be surprised if Mueller is coordinating with Schneiderman and if Mueller is canned Schneiderman moves forward quickly. Schneiderman could even hire Mueller if fired.

Schindler has been saying that our allies in Europe have damning audio. And if we had such, we could pass it to them via Five Eyes relationships. If Mueller gets canned i expect such audio to be released to the press.


Mueller got appointed not because of Comey's memos, but because of the daily drip drip of bad TrumpRussia news. Much of that bad news came from releases from inside the FBI or US IC. Don't underestimate the power of the IC dripping out more bad news - once DJT hits 20% approval the GOP will move to impeach. (By then it will be too late for them).



I wouldn't worry about Mueller getting fired -- we should be worrying about unknowns we have not yet thought of. What if Russia runs another big covert op in the US, either information warfare or actual violence or bombing? Trump fires some missiles at China? Trump calls a bunch of armed militia types to the capitol? Could be bad out there.

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Response to sharedvalues (Reply #5)

Mon Jun 12, 2017, 12:43 AM

12. Hubs and I discussed these very things this Sunday.

In addition to one other thing.




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Response to Duppers (Reply #12)

Mon Jun 12, 2017, 06:45 AM

31. One other?

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Response to Mr. Ected (Original post)

Sun Jun 11, 2017, 10:19 PM

6. I agree

every last one of them will choose party (and money) over country every single time.

There is not a single Republican left with an ounce, a smidgen, a slight whiff of patriotism or love of country left.

They live for power and sticking it to those they deem less than they are, which is pretty much everyone except that .01% that they do work for.

I fear that Agent Orange will get away with all of it.

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Response to Mr. Ected (Original post)

Sun Jun 11, 2017, 10:25 PM

7. I'm almost certain Trump WILL try to fire Mueller.

Mueller is putting together a team that is better than no others at talent and efficiency. This isn't a special prosecutor that is going to deliver a ho-hum report in 2 or 3 years about his investigations. This is a legal team that is operating from a theory and assembling pieces to prove or disprove that (or those) theories. There appear to be, at minimum, obstruction and financial issues that the prosecutorial team is investigating.

Mueller is operating like a person with limited time. I think he will find the goods before he is relieved of his duties. I also think Rosenstein will assist him as best as he can and he has already been brought up to speed by Comey and other senior FBI officials who, if they have loyalty to any person, would be to Mueller.

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Response to Mr. Ected (Original post)

Sun Jun 11, 2017, 10:31 PM

8. you're pretty much on target here, sadly; but it's not all bad...

i agree that firing mueller is merely one of a number of further obstructions of justice that are actually to be expected.

you can see they're already building the propaganda case for shutting down the investigations by any and all means. leaks, lack of loyalty, biased investigators, witch hunt, obama holdovers, etc. -- all stupid arguments, of course, but stupid arguments repeated endlessly on foxnews has been part of their m.o. for a couple decades now.

the *only* way benedict donald can really survive the whole scandal is to stonewall and shut down the investigations. there will be a flap with further comparisons to nixon's saturday night massacre, but nothing will actually come to it other than donnie dropping another percent or two in the polls. if he has to he'll pardon himself and everyone in sight (with a deal for their lies/silence).


as for that tipping point, yeah, you have to consider republican congesscritters' chance of re-election with (a) an unpopular president vs. (b) an impeached and maybe removed president.

really, it's almost of no-brainer, they'd rather almost anything other than impeaching and removing a president of their own party.

note that in all three times impeachment has come up historically (andrew johnson, richard nixon, and bill clinton) it was always the opposition party in congress.

no congressional majority has *ever* impeached, or really, seriously considered impeaching, a president of their own party. too many of them will see it as shooting themselves in the foot, if not the gut.


the good news is that republicans will not fare well with a chronically, significantly unpopular president. yes, there's gerrymandering and voter suppression and russians at play, but we actually have a shot at taking back the house, which would have been inconceivable had hillary won or, had benedict donald been remotely competent.

the one thing we have to worry about is a terrorist attack or reichstag fire that boosts his popularity.

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Response to Mr. Ected (Original post)

Sun Jun 11, 2017, 11:11 PM

9. Isn't firing the FBI director unprecedented in history? BTW, here's a K&R

Recent presidents fire CIA directors more often than I change tires; and I drive an large, old truck with a camper... Still the Central Intelligence Agency is unpredictable and obscure - on foreign shores - in deadly ways. No CIA director can obtain a "need to know" status into ALL agency activity. Most likely, firing Director Comey did not cancel multiple, independent FBI investigations into Trump's illegal activity. And then, there's that special prosecutor issue recent testimony by Comey initiated. Let's face it: Trump is a lying, cheating, criminal, who will be brought to justice. Unlike "W" (another criminal) Trump lacks the intelligence, old money and political clout of the Bush family. Unlike Georgy Junior, Trump is a self proclaimed racist. with antisemitic tendencies, who appears to thrive on tweeting['i] crap that makes even his staunchest supporters cringe.

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Response to Jeffersons Ghost (Reply #9)

Mon Jun 12, 2017, 01:18 AM

15. it's a common misconception

an assumption that trump is stupid. He is likely the greatest con artist of our times. Everything he says and does now serves a purpose. On top of it, no one is able to manipulate the media like trump. On the contrary, bush was dumb as a duck; a whole different ball game now. Conventional politics no longer work.

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Response to AlexSFCA (Reply #15)

Mon Jun 12, 2017, 05:50 AM

26. Trump is stupid and has been trading off his name for years...

as for manipulate the media...no. He has lost his touch and will be brought down one way or the other.

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Response to Mr. Ected (Original post)

Mon Jun 12, 2017, 12:32 AM

11. It's sad - but all true.

Cheeto knows full well that footage could be leaked of him being pissed on by five underage Russian hookers, on a bed of rubles and gold ingots, and this Congress STILL wouldn't impeach.

That day the Founding Fathers so feared, that our checks and balances no longer function - that day has very much arrived.

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Response to sandensea (Reply #11)

Mon Jun 12, 2017, 01:22 AM

16. checks and balances failed

because of citizens united. Cleary unconstitutional and hacked our democracy. Foreign power has the ability to corrupt major political parties.

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Response to AlexSFCA (Reply #16)

Mon Jun 12, 2017, 01:36 AM

17. Voila.

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Response to AlexSFCA (Reply #16)

Mon Jun 12, 2017, 05:49 AM

25. Welcome to DU...and our Republic will survive.

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Response to Mr. Ected (Original post)

Mon Jun 12, 2017, 01:12 AM

14. absolutely

But we are coming to the conclusion that trump will be firing mueller and shutting down investigation. Sessions was naive in thinking he could just resign and get off the hook. It appears he will continue to serve as AG and after the testimony, more likey than not, he won't continue recusing himself from the russia investigation. Instead, he'll help to shut it down. Republicans are desperate to kill this issue by any means.

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Response to AlexSFCA (Reply #14)

Mon Jun 12, 2017, 05:46 AM

24. Nope, Sessions days are numbered...he won't

go to jail for Trump.

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Response to Mr. Ected (Original post)

Mon Jun 12, 2017, 04:00 AM

18. His baggage will outweigh his good?

Huh?

Please clue me into his "good".

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Response to cwydro (Reply #18)

Mon Jun 12, 2017, 04:02 AM

19. Caught that too? Talk about getting shit wrong. nt

 

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Response to JTFrog (Reply #19)

Mon Jun 12, 2017, 04:04 AM

20. Lol.

That blew me away.

I mean seriously?

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Response to cwydro (Reply #18)

Mon Jun 12, 2017, 06:48 AM

32. 63 million voters

Of which 98% are still in his camp.

As long as he retains those voters' support, he represents "good" to the GOP...no matter what his destructive acts are doing to the country.

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Response to cwydro (Reply #18)

Mon Jun 12, 2017, 08:26 AM

33. His usefulness to the Republicans, is what I believe was meant.

 

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Response to Mr. Ected (Original post)

Mon Jun 12, 2017, 04:13 AM

21. Why would he care if "all hell breaks loose"?

To apply some sort of rationality to his thinking is wrong, imo.

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Response to Mr. Ected (Original post)

Mon Jun 12, 2017, 05:43 AM

22. if trump fires Mueller the hell will break out in 2018 election

 

to think not is clearly political ignorance. As for tipping point, the trump supporter aint going to change for sure BUT the repubulicam party elected officials will. If trump is sub 30% approval a year from now heading into Nov 2018 elections, the republicans will be facing political annihilation

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Response to Mr. Ected (Original post)

Mon Jun 12, 2017, 05:45 AM

23. I think you are wrong on both accounts. Trump can't fire

Mueller and all hell has broken lose.

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Response to Mr. Ected (Original post)

Mon Jun 12, 2017, 06:00 AM

27. At some point Trump becomes liability to criminals

who do not want light shown on their business dealings.

At some point Trump becomes clear danger to US

Convictions on state level can't be pardoned by president






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Response to Mr. Ected (Original post)

Mon Jun 12, 2017, 06:06 AM

28. TRump will have someone fire mueller.

It's his only fucking option!
TRump could take a shit on the white house lawn, wipe his fat arse with the original Constitution and rethugs would defend him.

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Response to Mr. Ected (Original post)

Mon Jun 12, 2017, 06:41 AM

30. I would have said

1. Irony

2. Sarcasm

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