Former CIA Director: 'Now we know' why Trump officials talking to the Russians may have been 'unmask

[applegrove]

by Natasha Bertrand at Business Insider

http://www.businessinsider.com/michael-hayden-kushner-meeting-trump-russia-unmasked-2017-5

SNIP..............


Michael Hayden, the former director of the NSA and the CIA, told CNN on Saturday that the reported content of Jared Kushner's conversations with Russia's ambassador in December may have motivated former national security adviser Susan Rice to request his name to be unmasked in intelligence reports.

Most of the controversy surrounding Rice's reported attempts to "unmask" Trump officials has centered on former national security adviser Michael Flynn's communications with Russian officials.

But Kushner, President Donald Trump's son-in-law and a top White House adviser, floated the possibility of setting up a secure line of communication between the Trump transition team and Russia when he met with Russian ambassador Sergey Kislyak late last year, The Washington Post reported Friday.

Those talks would take place in Russian diplomatic facilities in the US, the Post said, creating a secure line that would essentially conceal the administration's interactions with Russian officials from US government scrutiny.

Kislyak reportedly passed along that request to Moscow, in a phone call that was promptly intercepted by US intelligence agencies during their routine eavesdropping of foreign agents on US soil. Kislyak's call, which apparently described an attempt to bypass the US' national security and intelligence apparatus, would have gone into an intelligence report and been distributed among top government officials like Rice.

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[InAbLuEsTaTe]

1. Sounds like treason to me... death penalty in play here?

[applegrove]

2. I think that is a little much... nt

[american_ideals]

5. Yup, agreed. Let's put him in a nice luxury spa prison

Why punish these guys even? Jared inherited wealth, which allowed him to do shady real estate deals with criminals and think himself above the law, then he went to a venal banana-republic authoritarian White House where he continued to think he was above the law and engaged in blatant self dealing to put American tax dollars in his own pocket. Plus he has proven willing to sell out American democracy to a foreign power for profit.


He deserves treason charges and grave punishment if found guilty.

[mhw]

9. + 1000 Absolutely

The Affluenza defense won't help Jared.

Jared meet toaster.

[orangecrush]

14. They sure don't care

About killing us by stealing our health insurance, do they?

[applegrove]

15. No. But we don't want to become them.

[american_ideals]

22. Nota bene: Treason is a serious crime

Punishment for treason includes imprisonment and the death penalty in some cases, notably in a military tribunal (which Flynn it seems will be subject to.).

I support due process of law and a fair trial under our laws for all the accused. And serious punishment if they are found guilty. Too few white collar criminals pay a heavy price for their crimes, and too many poor people pay a heavy price for theirs. I do not agree with the death penalty for anyone, and support prison time.

But let's be very clear. What Kushner is accused of doing is devastating for American democracy. It threatens our democratic way of life, threatening to take us into authoritarianism. All in pursuit of self-enrichment and power.

If guilty, Kushner and his co-conspirators deserve a heavier sentence than anyone caught possessing drugs repeatedly.

[InAbLuEsTaTe]

23. Good point.

[gordianot]

4. I am 100% an advocate for the Trump administration to face justice.

Harsh measures should apply and as far as treason is concerned I have no objection to super max or other remedies.

[lapucelle]

28. Treason is very difficult to prove

given the very specific elements articulated in the Constitution.

"Treason against the United States, shall consist only in levying war against them, or in adhering to their enemies, giving them aid and comfort. No person shall be convicted of treason unless on the testimony of two witnesses to the same overt act, or on confession in open court."

https://www.law.cornell.edu/constitution/articleiii

[InAbLuEsTaTe]

34. Aid to the enemy... sounds like treason to me.

[lapucelle]

36. Treason is the only crime

whose actual elements and standards of evidence are explicitly articulated in the Constitution.

The framers were aware that a corrupt government in power could use the 'treason" charge to eliminate political enemies. It was a fairly common practice, and our Founding Fathers wanted to insure that citizens would not be subject to that particular abuse of power.

And for the record, Russia is an adversary rather than an enemy.

[InAbLuEsTaTe]

38. If Russia interfered in our election, that makes them an enemy.

[lapucelle]

40. These are legal standards.

[InAbLuEsTaTe]

41. I hear ya, though these criminal Nazi Trumpians have no legal standards.

[jalan48]

3. Wow. Trump's only hope is to convince Americans that this is fake news.

[napi21]

6. His "faithful won't care, but the majority of voters won't be able to deny it because of the shear

volume of facts that will be uncovered by agencies like FBI, CIA, DOJ, and the new special council. Remember, there were still people who supported Nixon when he resigned.

[TheFrenchRazor]

31. yep; trump said it best, he could shoot somebody on 5th ave and they wouldn't care (paraphrasing).

[InAbLuEsTaTe]

39. Was something to that effect.

[L. Coyote]

13. It might be faked by the Russians. Who do you trust? A Russain spy master?

Doesn't the Russain spymaster know he is being spied on when he says this?

[byronius]

7. Woooo doggie. Something's cooking. Smell that?

Roasted Orange.

[Ligyron]

8. or burnt orange...

[TomSlick]

10. Not Treason but a crime.

Treason is defined in 18 USC 2381 and is limited to disloyalty in time of war.

If true, Kushner would be guilty of a violation of the Espionage Act of 1917. I think a lot of the Russia activity could also be charged under RICO.

[SergeStorms]

18. RICO....

with the entire Republican party as co-conspirators. New York State has a prison they're trying to sell. We can fill the entire damned thing with the GOP. GOPrison. I love it!

[Generic Brad]

33. He Assisted Russia in a Hostile Takeover of Our Government

That qualifies as treason under 18 USC 2381.

[TomSlick]

35. Wouldn't stick. Wouln't even be charged.

There is a high bar for treason under US law. It really does require aiding the enemy in time of war. A charge of treason by the US would be a declaration of war against Russia - something I don't think we want to do.

There is a good reason for the difficulty in making a treason charge. We wouldn't want every political disagreement to result in a charge of treason. Remember, 'lock her up."

The GOP has gone mad. It's up to the Democrats to be the adults in the room. If the facts are as being reported, then Trump's mob should be prosecuted under the statutes that apply. We don't need vengeance. We need justice.

[Hekate]

11. KnR

[the_sly_pig]

12. Off with his maggot head.

He's done far worse than giving away secrets, he's assisted in undermining the entire democracy. For money!

Definitely a capital crime.

[applegrove]

17. Calm down buddy.

[the_sly_pig]

24. Why?

The highest office in the land and his minions colluded with a foreign nation attacking the very foundation of our democratic principles for personal gain. If that is not treason, what is?

[applegrove]

25. There has to be a consensus of the public for impeachment. Otherwise

the GOP will ignore all calls. I don't think frightening the public with violent overthrow helps build a consensus.

[BigmanPigman]

16. Flynn was in the room with him and Russian during one meeting...

"naive" my ass! GUILTY!

[Stinky The Clown]

19. Whoa! Whoa! Whoa! Wait a minute here.

Kislyak used a phone that could be listened to by the NSA?

Really?

The Russians don't have secure communications channels like we do? They don't have a way to hide from us what they wish to hide from us?

And assuming they do (they really do) would not one of the very few people on earth who are inside the head of Donnie Two Scoops attempting to make a TREASONOUS connection with them be worth running only through secure channels?

Unless they wanted us to know.

A lot of things don't smell right yet. This is one of them.

[applegrove]

21. Agreed it doesn't quite all make sense. But we don't know how all the intelligence

gathering works. I'm no expert or even amateur on intelligence.

[underpants]

27. They/we have both

Regular unsecure phones and diplomatic cables. How those cables are immune to hacking I don't know but they appear to be secure.

[Stinky The Clown]

29. Of course, and therefor the question stands

Kislyak KNEW he'd be listened to if he spoke about Jarvanka on line that was open.

So why did he do that? A guy like Kislyak doesn't make mistakes. This was intentional.

[underpants]

30. I prefer Ivanred

Yes it is curious.

[Leith]

37. Here's a Thought

Maybe Kislyak and the rest of the Russians didn't know that the line was not secure.

If that's the case, that was a hell of a leak, not only of a conversation but also to let the Russians know that their secure communications are known by the IC.

Well, on the bright side, they aren't the only ones with effective computer techniques.

[Dorn]

20. Treason

Whoever, owing allegiance to the United States, levies war against them or adheres to their enemies, giving them aid and comfort within the United States or elsewhere, is guilty of treason and shall suffer death, or shall be imprisoned not less than five years and fined under this title but not less than $10,000; and shall be incapable of holding any office under the United States.

[SummerSnow]

26. make them live in poverty for the rest of their lives. it won't bother them cause

poverty is a 'state of mind'

[liberal N proud]

32. If Kuschner was known to have committed espionage in December, why did he get security clearance?

That should have blocked his eligibility.