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(53,061 posts)
Tue May 16, 2017, 07:13 PM May 2017

While similar to Watergate it is in fact a daily reenactment of "Lord of the Flies"

Its like a "Groundhog Day" experience where we have to relive the last third of "Lord of the Flies" everyday.

Piggy is dead, the conch is broken, they started a fire on the island and we are just praying that some adult arrives before things get REALLY bad. Just when things seem beyond the possibility of further disintegration you fall asleep and when you wake up you realize that Piggy is dead, the conch is broken, and someone just started another fire on the island.

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(113,464 posts)
1. I've called it the Lord of the Flies Administration for a few months now.
Tue May 16, 2017, 07:17 PM
May 2017

At the height of Bush-Cheney's bullying I labeled them the LotF Administration, but, Trump earned the nick by the first month.



(51,311 posts)
2. I get more of a Shakespearean/Aristotelian tragedy vibe: Man in high position falls from fatal flaw.
Tue May 16, 2017, 07:17 PM
May 2017

I'd say we're in the beginning of Act III.


(53,061 posts)
3. I think that you have to admit that Trump never had a "high position" in any meaningful way
Tue May 16, 2017, 07:20 PM
May 2017

but he definitely is the guy that found the conch which appeared to bestow legitimacy.

I'd have to stay with Lord of the Flies.



(51,311 posts)
4. What?! I'd say POTUS is pretty damn high. If LotF, is Trump "Jack"? The characters are children
Tue May 16, 2017, 07:24 PM
May 2017

unsettled by the wars of adults!

Macbeth, e.g., attained his kingship immorally and illegally. He betrayed and killed to keep it. He consorted with unsavory characters (the Three Witches).

And he met his demise.

In LotF, OTOH, Jack and the rest of the surviving children are rescued (into what, we are left to ponder).


(53,061 posts)
6. But Trump has never achieved POTUS he has only "sat in the seat".
Tue May 16, 2017, 07:44 PM
May 2017

How many times have pundits said "now he is presidential" only to see him act like a child a few minutes later.

I could be wrong but I thought that the ironic message of LotF is that the children are unsettled by the absence of civilization and the normal order of the day which ironically parallels the war, that human civilization is only thinly removed from chaos.

So the question would be is this an example of a noble leader that approaches his own destruction because of a fatal flaw or is it like the unravelling of an entire civilization because the basic rules suddenly evaporate.

I believe that the destruction of Greece is because the Greek Constitution gives the billionaire shipping tycoons and capital gains in the Greek Stock Market tax free status. When the doctors, lawyers and small time business owners see the people at the top exempted from taxes they take a logical next step and cheat on their taxes which pushes the Greek government into bankruptcy that is now subsidized by the adults in France and Germany.

If Trumps assault on the Constitution is not contained and he can personally profit from ignoring the rule of law it will give permission for everyone to abandon the rules of civilization and everyone will be looking for ways of personal enrichment and validation from the pig's head.

Another parallel is that"LotF" paints a society where the loss of civilization creates a vacuum and in the vacuum fear of the beast becomes the organizing principle of society. Unlike the Shakespeare play Trump is trying to personalize power by igniting fear, fear of the terrorist, fear of the undocumented worker, fear of the other.



(51,311 posts)
7. "POTUS" simply means "President of the United States." Lately, others seem to agree
Fri May 26, 2017, 08:00 PM
May 2017

with me (yes, dog with a bone):

"Trump’s downfall is entirely Shakespearian...."

"Breaking Bad star Bryan Cranston has described Donald Trump as "a classic tragic Shakespearean character".

"Trump, like Macbeth, vanquishes foes on the primary battlefields and wins power. However, he is doomed to destruction because of his tragic flaw: narcissism."

"Trump does a mean King Lear: Cordelia’s father, the lead in one of the Bard’s greatest tragedies. Both rulers confront someone close — a daughter, a courtier — and demand to know just how much he means to them."

Don't get me wrong: I love "LotF"! I could go on and on about it! But I love "Macbeth" and "Julius Caesar" perhaps more.

We are not in any way Greece, for good or ill!

The Velveteen Ocelot

(117,764 posts)
5. Except that the model of the Greek tragedy is that there is a great man or hero
Tue May 16, 2017, 07:34 PM
May 2017

who is brought down by his fatal flaw, which could be the lack of self-knowledge, lack of judgment, or hubris. While all of those flaws apply to Trump, he was never a great man; he's just a festering lump of flaws.

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