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Mon May 8, 2017, 03:52 AM

Interesting thing about the far right National Front (French) Party



In their angry racist far right campaign, considered by many to be the most far right major party in Europe, not a single statement was made about changing their single payer health insurance for all national plan.

They also voiced their support for the 35 hour work week and supporting civil servants and continuing the basic work of the modern state.

They may be bat shit crazy for Europe but here they would be seen as too far left for the Republican Party.

The US Republican Party is the only party in modern developed democracies to not embrace universal health care as a fundamental right.

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Arrow 29 replies Author Time Post
Reply Interesting thing about the far right National Front (French) Party (Original post)
grantcart May 2017 OP
JI7 May 2017 #1
Ezior May 2017 #8
whathehell May 2017 #14
Ezior May 2017 #2
DemocratSinceBirth May 2017 #4
rpannier May 2017 #6
DemocratSinceBirth May 2017 #7
rpannier May 2017 #9
BlueMTexpat May 2017 #11
rpannier May 2017 #12
BlueMTexpat May 2017 #28
Bernardo de La Paz May 2017 #15
onetexan May 2017 #17
DemocratSinceBirth May 2017 #21
rpannier May 2017 #5
snooper2 May 2017 #22
DemocratSinceBirth May 2017 #3
OnDoutside May 2017 #10
nikibatts May 2017 #13
dalton99a May 2017 #18
grantcart May 2017 #23
uponit7771 May 2017 #25
HopeAgain May 2017 #16
NewRedDawn May 2017 #19
whathehell May 2017 #20
HopeAgain May 2017 #27
Yavin4 May 2017 #24
romanic May 2017 #26
ucrdem May 2017 #29

Response to grantcart (Original post)

Mon May 8, 2017, 04:20 AM

1. how about evolution and reproductive rights ?

those also seem to be areas that are more of an American right wing thing rather than similar to other nations. and of course guns .

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Response to JI7 (Reply #1)

Mon May 8, 2017, 04:50 AM

8. Abortion was (is) an issue in Germany

There are a few creationists, but it's very rare I'd say. Certainly no popular political parties in support of creationism.

There probably are some politicians and voters who don't support abortion rights, it was a major controversy in the 70s. It is still technically illegal to have an abortion, but the penalty is 0€ in some circumstances. You can only get a penalty-free abortion after a mandatory counseling session. This is not for shaming anyone out of their decision, but they will tell you what kind of financial child support you can get, see if you have any conflicts that could be solved so you might want to give birth to the child, medical and financial info about abortions, psychological help related to abortions, etc. There's also a time limit, so there's a fine or even jail sentence (for the doctor) for late abortions, unless it was required for medical reasons or the pregnancy was because of a rape.

I'd say the situation is not ideal, but at least this compromise has support from the christian, conservative Merkel party CDU/CSU.

Contraceptives are pretty much a non-issue, even among catholics (the most conservative among the major religious groups in Germany. Evangelicals play a minor role.)

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Response to Ezior (Reply #8)

Mon May 8, 2017, 06:38 AM

14. So abortion is illegal in Germany?

Wow....That's quite a surprise.

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Response to grantcart (Original post)

Mon May 8, 2017, 04:25 AM

2. I think the FN is a "national socialist" party

It's not really a one-dimensional scale. While they are left on the economy/social security scale (or at least they pretend to be), they are pretty far out right on the "xenophobia, migration, racism" scale.

It's complicated, because you'd think they are overtly homophobic as well, but they pretend not to be as far as I know.

The German AfD (which is part of the "international nationalist" movement), on the other hand, favors economic AND social AND migration right-wing policies. Though they do have a lesbian mom as one of their two chancellor candidates. And some guy (Gauland) who is a good friend of someone (Höcke) who is almost a holocaust denier or maybe even "holocaust supporter" or "Germany's history is actually not that terrible" guy...

The one thing all the nationalist politicians have in common is a focus on "Muslims, get out of the country!".

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Response to Ezior (Reply #2)

Mon May 8, 2017, 04:29 AM

4. Her father is a homophobe but she supposedly vanquished him from the party.

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Response to DemocratSinceBirth (Reply #4)

Mon May 8, 2017, 04:33 AM

6. Everything I have read about them, they don't speak to each other at all

They pass messages through their granddaughter/niece. A real piece of work, that is more like granddad than the aunt

And, Marine Le Pen's closest advisor is homosexual. Which grates on the grand wizar... I mean... grandfather

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Response to rpannier (Reply #6)

Mon May 8, 2017, 04:40 AM

7. Her niece said if Marine was elected she would repeal France's marriage equality.

A Deplorable who I was debating on another board thought that was a good thing.


As to the OP fascism or national socialism does come with some benefits for the poor and working class. Look at Trump's "promises". It also comes with a lot of really bad things which are being discussed in this thread.

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Response to DemocratSinceBirth (Reply #7)

Mon May 8, 2017, 05:03 AM

9. That's what the new reich has been counting on for a while

The economies in many countries have been pushing some people back and leaving others in the ditch
The new reich is harnessing this unhappiness
In the US, the changes in the economy have left people in more rural areas in a bad way. The Democrats in the US and the left in general, have done a very poor job of explaining how it is the mainstream right parties that have been voting against job retraining -- in the US it's because of freedom and rugged individualism that we should oppose retraining.
The other problem that is plaguing the left and the more moderate right, and will possibly for some time, is that they have begun to adopt (or at the very least given validity) to some of the outrageous and bigoted things that the new reich preaches. A friend of mine in France pointed out that every party running adopted some of the more reactionary programs of the National Front and that's chilling when you think about it because she can claim that her ideas have merit by pointing out how the mainstream parties are adopting some of them -- especially the nationalistic and xenophobic ones.

Stay tuned for more chilling things to come

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Response to rpannier (Reply #6)

Mon May 8, 2017, 05:14 AM

11. She actually "softened" the

visage of the FN - and has been far more successful politically than her father ever was - which is one reason why her father hates her.

http://www.theaustralian.com.au/news/world/the-times/jeanmarie-le-pen-attacks-his-ungrateful-daughter-marine/news-story/755a79996935c3d6328582329e2a9d4a

Marine Le Pen’s father has launched an extraordinary attack on his daughter on the eve of today’s French election, suggesting she is unfit to be president.

“She has character; she doesn’t lack that,” Jean-Marie Le Pen, 88, said in an interview with The Sunday Times at his office overlooking Paris. “But you also need other qualities.”

Embittered at being expelled from his daughter’s “detoxified” National Front on account of his anti-semitic jibes, Le Pen said he did not want his criticisms of her to be taken as an “attack”. Yet, at the same time, he seemed to relish sticking in the knife.

He suggested his granddaughter Marion Marechal-Le Pen, 28, and a National Front MP since the age of 22, would have made a better presidential contender — “but she’ll have to grow a bit older first”.


Marine is planning a party revamp - even to changing its name. https://www.thelocal.fr/20170507/marine-le-pen-claims-massive-gains-but-plans-party-revamp-after-defeat

Le Pen took the helm from her father in 2011 and has worked hard to try to cleanse it of an image for xenophobia and anti-Semitism.

But her swing to moderation has also alienated die-hard supporters, especially among loyalists of her father.

Sunday's result was the highest-ever score in a presidential election in the 44-year history of the FN, founded by Le Pen senior in October 1972.

But it still fell well short of the party's craving to capture the presidency, a post that in France carries vast powers.


It is quite possible that we could see TWO women named Le Pen as candidates in future French Presidential elections. Of the two, Marine is by far the saner. But she's STILL pretty bad.

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Response to BlueMTexpat (Reply #11)

Mon May 8, 2017, 05:19 AM

12. Marine is by far the saner. But she's STILL pretty bad.

And that's summing up the problem about a good as you can
Kind of like the choice between being stabbed in the stomach or in the back
One is a little better than the other. But, in the end, you still got stabbed

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Response to rpannier (Reply #12)

Tue May 9, 2017, 04:43 AM

28. I agree 100%.

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Response to DemocratSinceBirth (Reply #4)

Mon May 8, 2017, 06:40 AM

15. She banished him. Macron vanquished her. . . . nt

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Response to Bernardo de La Paz (Reply #15)

Mon May 8, 2017, 07:45 AM

17. quite a dysfunctional family

one worse than the other. these people align themselves with extremists & yet claim to be the voice of the people.
We have our own problem here with the orange idiot. His kids are as disgusting as he is.

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Response to Bernardo de La Paz (Reply #15)

Mon May 8, 2017, 08:52 AM

21. That's why I shouldn't post at 2:00 A.M.

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Response to Ezior (Reply #2)

Mon May 8, 2017, 04:30 AM

5. You are correct that they are more nuanced

The homophobia, under her father 'Yes', her not so much
Florian Philippot, her closest advisor is gay
My guess is, her niece is homophobic, as she is more rightward and more similar to her grandfather, than she is to her aunt

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Response to Ezior (Reply #2)

Mon May 8, 2017, 08:55 AM

22. They are where the far right and far left have common ground on multiple issues

 

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Response to grantcart (Original post)

Mon May 8, 2017, 04:27 AM

3. Once you get past their hompohobia, xenophobia, Islamophobia...

Once you get past her hompohobia, xenophobia, Islamophobia, anti-semitism, and nativism LePen's policies are tilted toward the poor and working class... I truly believe they are opposed to the economic elites and a lot of others too.

LePen is a real right wing populist/nationalist. Trump is a real right wing nationalist. He doesn't even try to provide his poor and working class devotees the goodies LePen does.

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Response to grantcart (Original post)

Mon May 8, 2017, 05:09 AM

10. I hope Macron realises how important the next 5 years are, and how important it is that France gets

its economic house in order. Le Pen got 30 odd percent, that should worry us all. Give people hope and jobs, that's the best way to fight back Extremists like Le Pen.

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Response to grantcart (Original post)

Mon May 8, 2017, 06:14 AM

13. The one thing they have in common with the alt-right is simply RACISM.

 

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Response to nikibatts (Reply #13)

Mon May 8, 2017, 07:47 AM

18. Exactly.

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Response to nikibatts (Reply #13)

Mon May 8, 2017, 04:26 PM

23. and fear

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Response to nikibatts (Reply #13)

Mon May 8, 2017, 04:29 PM

25. +1

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Response to grantcart (Original post)

Mon May 8, 2017, 06:49 AM

16. Only Americans worship unfettered capitalism

It's a religion here in the States.

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Response to HopeAgain (Reply #16)

Mon May 8, 2017, 08:09 AM

19. The big problem here

 

is the govt. is run by the descendants of the confederacy & people with sympathies to the ideal of the confederacy. Slave owner fascists . The Union won the war, but the confederacy won the peace. They have taken advantage of gerrymandering & the EC. to rule the majority with a minority.

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Response to HopeAgain (Reply #16)

Mon May 8, 2017, 08:28 AM

20. No, that would be SOME Americans...The rest of us are Democrats

and there are more RIght Wing "capitalistic" countries than ours..Try South American dictatorships.

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Response to whathehell (Reply #20)

Mon May 8, 2017, 05:42 PM

27. We are well on the way...

Have you noticed the wealth disparity in the U.S. lately?

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Response to grantcart (Original post)

Mon May 8, 2017, 04:28 PM

24. This is why we don't have Single Payer

Their racists still vote for the economic needs as well as their racism. Our racists just votes for their racism.

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Response to grantcart (Original post)

Mon May 8, 2017, 04:33 PM

26. Not an expert on French politics

But from what I've read both Macron and Le Pen are outside of France's establishment. As for Le Pen, outside of her stance on immigration and the EU; she had more liberal economic policies compared to Macron whose being called a CEO rather than President.

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Response to grantcart (Original post)

Tue May 9, 2017, 05:26 AM

29. Hard to say what Macron will do with that. "Marche" means market after all

("marché" and "en marché" can mean "in the market" as well as "onward," and while the big question was whether or not to stay in the EU, with LePen representing a Frexit and Macron representing "en marché," staying in, he didn't run as a Socialist, though he entered government in Hollande's socialist administration, and basically ran as the whiz kid who will fix the French economy which like everyone else's is shedding jobs at a fast rate.

So LePen was probably more the socialist than Macron, and even though she has tried to run away from her father's hateful legacy, she still ran in his party, and supported its positions on immigration and the EU. So on that count it's great that Macron won but who knows what he'll do with the health care system which is widely considered an expensive white elephant.

p.s. here's what I'm getting at:

Reuters, Sun May 7, 2017:

"France's Macron says majority needed to carry out changes"

http://www.reuters.com/article/us-france-election-macron-louvre-idUSKBN183132?mod=related&channelName=worldNews


What changes?


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