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phantom power

(25,966 posts)
Wed Jul 4, 2012, 02:33 PM Jul 2012

"I hope we shall crush in its birth the aristocracy of our moneyed corporations"

"I hope we shall crush in its birth the aristocracy of our moneyed corporations which dare already to challenge our government in a trial of strength, and bid defiance to the laws of our country."
--Thomas Jefferson


Oh well... Happy Independence Day!
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"I hope we shall crush in its birth the aristocracy of our moneyed corporations" (Original Post) phantom power Jul 2012 OP
Yeah, we really blew that one. MrSlayer Jul 2012 #1
LOL! Flatulo Jul 2012 #9
They'd already seen the East India Company operate as a sovereign more powerful than the Crown. freshwest Jul 2012 #2
I hate to say it, but that isn't a real quote. white_wolf Jul 2012 #3
That is a different quote from the OP tritsofme Jul 2012 #4
Here is an article from Moticello.org on this quote. white_wolf Jul 2012 #5
Again, you are proving wrong a different quote than is the OP. tritsofme Jul 2012 #7
It turns out you are right, my mistake. white_wolf Jul 2012 #12
Jefferson used a superfluous apostrophe ?!? eppur_se_muova Jul 2012 #13
LOL we share a true appreciation for Jefferson's succinctness DebJ Jul 2012 #15
Umm, found at the monticello.org link you provided Kennah Jul 2012 #8
Citizens United -- the worst insult to Jefferson that ever emerged from the Supreme Court. JDPriestly Jul 2012 #6
Worse. Psychopaths. pscot Jul 2012 #11
A perfect quote for the holiday limpyhobbler Jul 2012 #10
That's been my signature line on my emails for over a year now DebJ Jul 2012 #14
Small wonder why they removed Jefferson from Texas text books Gman Jul 2012 #16
de Tocqueville said pretty much the same thing in 1832 99th_Monkey Jul 2012 #17
Whoa. moondust Jul 2012 #18
It "birthed" a long long time ago. It's mature now but Raine Jul 2012 #19
Sincere apologies to TJ... tex-wyo-dem Jul 2012 #20

freshwest

(53,661 posts)
2. They'd already seen the East India Company operate as a sovereign more powerful than the Crown.
Wed Jul 4, 2012, 02:59 PM
Jul 2012

Lincoln, Teddy and Franklin Roosevelt all had to fight the battle in their day. Giving up is embracing serfdom. Each generation makes its choice how to handle forces that outlast governments.

tritsofme

(17,320 posts)
4. That is a different quote from the OP
Wed Jul 4, 2012, 03:23 PM
Jul 2012

The quote is genuine. Though he probably used "corporation" with a bit of a different meaning than we do today.

white_wolf

(6,238 posts)
5. Here is an article from Moticello.org on this quote.
Wed Jul 4, 2012, 03:32 PM
Jul 2012

It proves it is false, however it does reference this real quote by Jefferson:


"a vast accession of strength from their younger recruits, who, having nothing in them of the feelings or principles of '76, now look to a single and splendid government of an aristocracy, founded on banking institutions, and monied incorporations under the guise and cloak of their favored branches of manufactures, commerce and navigation, riding and ruling over the plundered ploughman and beggared yeomanry"

Now that is a real quote of Jefferson and just as damming to the right-wing cause.

Link: http://www.monticello.org/site/research-and-collections/end-democracyquotation

tritsofme

(17,320 posts)
7. Again, you are proving wrong a different quote than is the OP.
Wed Jul 4, 2012, 03:51 PM
Jul 2012

Go read the original if you like:

—I received your favor of Oct. 16, at this place, where I pass much of my time, very distant from Monticello. I am quite astonished at the idea which seems to have got abroad; that I propose publishing something on the subject of religion, and this is said to have arisen from a letter of mine to my friend Charles Thompson, in which certainly there is no trace of such an idea. When we see religion split into so many thousand of sects, and I may say Christianity itself divided into it’s thousands also, who are disputing, anathematizing and where the laws permit burning and torturing one another for abstractions which no one of them understand, and which are indeed beyond the comprehension of the human mind, into which of the chambers of this Bedlam would a [torn] man wish to thrust himself. The sum of all religion as expressed by it’s best preacher, “fear god and love thy neighbor” contains no mystery, needs no explanation. But this wont do. It gives no scope to make dupes; priests could not live by it. Your idea of the moral obligations of governments are perfectly correct. The man who is dishonest as a statesman would be a dishonest man in any station. It is strangely absurd to suppose that a million of human beings collected together are not under the same moral laws which bind each of them separately. It is a great consolation to me that our government, as it cherishes most it’s duties to its own citizens, so is it the most exact in it’s moral conduct towards other nations. I do not believe that in the four administrations which have taken place, there has been a single instance of departure from good faith towards other nations. We may sometimes have mistaken our rights, or made an erroneous estimate of the actions of others, but no voluntary wrong can be imputed to us. In this respect England exhibits the most remarkable phaenomenon in the universe in the contrast between the profligacy of it’s government and the probity of it’s citizens. And accordingly it is now exhibiting an example of the truth of the maxim that virtue & interest are inseparable. It ends, as might have been expected, in the ruin of it’s people, but this ruin will fall heaviest, as it ought to fall on that hereditary aristocracy which has for generations been preparing the catastrophe. I hope we shall take warning from the example and crush in it’s birth the aristocracy of our monied corporations which dare already to challenge our government to a trial of strength and bid defiance to the laws of our country. Present me respectfully to Mrs. Logan and accept yourself my friendly and respectful salutations.
http://oll.libertyfund.org/?option=com_staticxt&staticfile=show.php%3Ftitle=808&chapter=88352&layout=html&Itemid=27

white_wolf

(6,238 posts)
12. It turns out you are right, my mistake.
Wed Jul 4, 2012, 05:14 PM
Jul 2012

Sorry if I offended. I don't know why I kept reading it the way I did, again sorry. Thanks for the correction, I appreciate it.

Kennah

(14,115 posts)
8. Umm, found at the monticello.org link you provided
Wed Jul 4, 2012, 04:08 PM
Jul 2012

"I hope we shall ... crush in its birth the aristocracy of our moneyed corporations which dare already to challenge our government to trial and bid defiance to the laws of our country."

JDPriestly

(57,936 posts)
6. Citizens United -- the worst insult to Jefferson that ever emerged from the Supreme Court.
Wed Jul 4, 2012, 03:47 PM
Jul 2012

Now those money'd corporations not only have their money, their aristocratic status -- but unrestricted "speech" meaning unrestricted influence in our elections.

Corporations are essentially, basically, predestined to be -- sociopaths.

pscot

(21,023 posts)
11. Worse. Psychopaths.
Wed Jul 4, 2012, 04:56 PM
Jul 2012

They will kill to get what they want. And a corporate government is a psychopathic government.

 

99th_Monkey

(19,326 posts)
17. de Tocqueville said pretty much the same thing in 1832
Wed Jul 4, 2012, 05:41 PM
Jul 2012

When I first read this quote, while during my university studies, it blew my
mind and broke my heart, that we ignored him as well as Jefferson.

"The manufacturing aristocracy of our age first impoverishes and then debases the
men who service it, and then abandons them to be supported by the Charity of the
public. ... The friends of democracy should keep their eyes anxiously fixed in this
direction; for it ever a permanent inequality of conditions and aristocracy again
penetrate into the world, it may be predicted that this is the gate by which they
will enter". ~Alexis de Tocqueville (1832)

Raine

(30,540 posts)
19. It "birthed" a long long time ago. It's mature now but
Wed Jul 4, 2012, 10:30 PM
Jul 2012

certainly needs to be crushed the hell to death.

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