General Discussion
Related: Editorials & Other Articles, Issue Forums, Alliance Forums, Region Forums"The hackers were paid by the Trump organisation, but were under the control of Vladimir Putin[ ]"

The December memo alleged that four Trump representatives travelled to Prague in August or September in 2016 for secret discussions with Kremlin representatives and associated operators/hackers, about how to pay hackers secretly for penetrating Democratic party computer systems and contingency plans for covering up operations.
Between March and September, the December memo alleges, the hackers used botnets and porn traffic to transmit viruses, plant bugs and steal data online from Democratic party leadership. Two of the hackers had been recruited under duress by the FSB the memo said. The hackers were paid by the Trump organisation, but were under the control of Vladimir Putins presidential administration.
https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2017/apr/28/trump-russia-intelligence-uk-government-m16-kremlin
If that's true, and intelligence confirms this....holy balls.
And it needs to be shouted from the rooftops.
Why do I think that tidbit--and the possibility that it was confirmed--is what caused all the grim faces from the Senate Intelligence Committee after their FBI briefings a couple of months ago?
That's major, major, major stuff.

wryter2000
(47,763 posts)But why wouldn't Putin pay them himself? Putin must have more money than Trump.
Tommy_Carcetti
(43,807 posts)Putin's smart.
Trump isn't.
certainot
(9,090 posts)cstanleytech
(27,481 posts)keep the focus of the media and the public on Trump and off the real people Russia was colluding with.
Who? Well my guess would be certain members of Congress that are members of the party that currently is in majority control because they had a hell of alot to gain if Trump won the election and it would explain why they have stonewalled an independent investigation into what Russia was doing and with whom in regard to the US elections.
Plus it wouldnt be the first time they have engaged in something illegal and immoral to try and win an election.
More_Cowbell
(2,213 posts)I think he and Ryan are in it up to their necks. (Of course, that might be wishful thinking.)
LaydeeBug
(10,291 posts)L. Coyote
(51,134 posts)LaydeeBug
(10,291 posts)Wellstone ruled
(34,661 posts)chunks of flesh off the Rethugs backsides.
The picture is worth millions of words. Even Grassass looks scared.
0rganism
(24,902 posts)



L. Coyote
(51,134 posts)
bathroommonkey76
(3,827 posts)It's no big surprise at all that his organization paid hackers to do this!
Tommy_Carcetti
(43,807 posts)...but when you see it confirmed for yourself, it still throws you for an absolute loop.
elleng
(138,894 posts)Chemisse
(31,052 posts)And part of the shock is how brazen and flagrant it all is. The idiot who people would vote for even if he shot someone on 5th Avenue, and who has gotten away with criminal acts all his life, was not afraid to do anything that would serve his purposes, and do it carelessly.
I suspect he is surprised that he is facing consequences for all this.
yardwork
(65,860 posts)But, it's been clear for more than a year that a lot of people simply don't want to believe that Trump says what he means. I've never seen such denial and magical thinking about a candidate. People heard what they wanted to hear.
dalton99a
(87,399 posts)The logical connection is obvious
oldtime dfl_er
(7,080 posts)so what's Comey been waiting for? This meeting was MONTHS ago.
Blanks
(4,835 posts)Until Trump's unpopularity is high enough and his popularity low enough, it won't be well received by the public.
It takes a little while.
gratuitous
(82,849 posts)Don't get ahead of ourselves, don't overpromise. Let's build an airtight case so we don't have to listen to the caterwauling about how poor Donald was hounded from office by those dastardly snowflakes when he didn't do nuthin' wrong!
JudyM
(29,540 posts)His polling #s will rise dramatically if he pulls off a deal with N. Korea even if via China, which is starting to look possible. As much as we want N. Korea restrained, it'd be a huge win for him, enough that I'd be concerned about 2020.
Blanks
(4,835 posts)Although I agree with you. I thought for sure Bush wasn't gonna be able to pull it off in 2004, so I'm not gonna get too comfortable.
Ninsianna
(1,353 posts)JudyM
(29,540 posts)its high-dependency supply line. The broad outline would be inspection/controls on weapons development in exchange for a better trade portfolio/terms.
cilla4progress
(26,257 posts)It's not only trump who is destroying america, it's the 96% of his supporters who are still with him who are.
It's critical to catch them at a moment when they are turned or at least turning against him, as well. Taking trump down won't work unless 70+% of us are on board.
Seems like a very plausible strategy to me. We must keep fighting his agenda for this reason, as well as on the merits.
Lonestarblue
(12,430 posts)He is not an unbiased player. However, he may not yet have irrefutable evidence of Trump himself giving the orders. I also wonder whether the investigations are also trying to uncover proof of Trump's money laundering for Russia. He already paid a hefty fine a couple of years ago for not following money tracking rules in his casinos--no direct proof of deliberate money laundering, but a $10 million fine says a lot. Trump and his organization have probably been laundering money for Russia for years. Real estate is ideal for that purpose.
cilla4progress
(26,257 posts)That's the ticket!
L. Coyote
(51,134 posts)they have broken this story in the American Press. Foreign intelligence is bringing down a criminal White House and forcing US law enforcement to look at the crimes.
Achilleaze
(15,543 posts)
The Republican Congress better get off it's corpulent corrupted ass and do something for America
BigmanPigman
(52,699 posts)NOTHING is happening on the Repub sides of the committees (Oversize and Intelligence) in both the Senate and House investigations. It will stay this way until citizens (YOU and ME) call, write, protest and go to town halls demanding a separate special investigation. It rests in our hands like the ACA repeal. RESIST!
Achilleaze
(15,543 posts)
Auntie Bush
(17,528 posts)bdamomma
(67,719 posts)It's all in our hands, keep on being vocal, cause you know how the Republicans like to run away when they are confronted by the American people. We need to fight back in our local states.
ProfessorPlum
(11,453 posts)where's my popcorn?
Adrahil
(13,340 posts)I've been waiting for Fitzmas a long time...
SergeStorms
(19,495 posts)I haven't heard that term in ages. And Fitzmas never came, which is the main reason I don't have great expectations about the FBI's investigation bearing fruit. I sincerely hope I'm wrong about that, but history doesn't bode well for startling allegations being proved true. We can't be caught in that trap of putting all of our eggs in a single basket. The phone calls to our Congress-critters and activism at Town Halls, marches, etc. have been working well. We can't abandon them in the hopes of some blockbuster investigation results. It would be amazing if all this conjecture comes to fruition, but slow and steady might be the only hope of stopping Trump's agenda.
Adrahil
(13,340 posts)I do have my doubts the culprits will ever be held accountable.
stonecutter357
(12,822 posts)red dog 1
(30,456 posts)"UK was given details of alleged contacts between Trump campaign and Moscow"
is the headline of this Guardian article.
herding cats
(19,659 posts)Please, oh PLEASE, let there be verifiable proof!
Elwood P Dowd
(11,450 posts)ProudProgressiveNow
(6,166 posts)murielm99
(31,758 posts)This is taking a toll on all of us. Imagine how much harder it must be for our legislators.
triron
(22,240 posts)calimary
(85,453 posts)Tweeted it.
Claude Taylor? @TrueFactsStated 11m11 minutes ago
Claude Taylor Retweeted Howard Dean
I'm asking everyone to retweet John Dean on this important article in the Guardian. He's the only A lister on this.
Claude Taylor added,
Link to tweet
Howard DeanVerified account @GovHowardDean
UK was given details of alleged contacts between Trump campaign and Moscow https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2017/apr/28/trump-russia-intelligence-uk-government-m16-kremlin?CMP=share_btn_tw
0 replies160 retweets3 likes
MY RETWEET:
THIS @JohnWDean @maddow @jaketapper @HardballChris @chrislhayes @MaddowBlog @andersoncooper @CBSNews @CNNPolitics @ABCPolitics @NBCNews @CNN
NastyRiffraff
(12,448 posts)Most on your list probably already know this, but it's good to get it in front of them.
I hope something comes of this. I know the wheels of justice turn slowly, but I hope they DO turn.
Response to Tommy_Carcetti (Original post)
Name removed Message auto-removed
Tommy_Carcetti
(43,807 posts)Send me a postcard from Amarillo.
Response to Tommy_Carcetti (Reply #21)
Name removed Message auto-removed
Tommy_Carcetti
(43,807 posts)Not to mention Trump himself begging Putin to hack.
And various members of his team meeting with Russian officials, and bald face lying about those meetings.
But tick, tick, tick....you've got two posts in, so there's still more time to prove us all wrong.
Elwood P Dowd
(11,450 posts)For some reason, republicans must think that the FBI, CIA, NSA, British Intel, and all the other law enforcement and intel agencies publish evidence they've collected on every case they're working.
Response to Tommy_Carcetti (Reply #31)
Name removed Message auto-removed
Tommy_Carcetti
(43,807 posts)Google Hatch Act and get back to me.
Russia, if you're listening, I hope you're able to find the 30,000 emails that are missing,
If you can explain that one away in the few minutes you probably have left here.....
Tommy_Carcetti
(43,807 posts)Now I'll never know.
L. Coyote
(51,134 posts)
Guy Whitey Corngood
(26,815 posts)Sculpin Beauregard
(1,046 posts)byronius
(7,689 posts)You need to put a sarcasm icon down there. People might think you're Sirius.
Liberalagogo
(1,770 posts)Last edited Fri Apr 28, 2017, 06:08 PM - Edit history (1)
I call t-word.
UPDATE: I guess I was right.
Tommy_Carcetti
(43,807 posts)Maybe he/she can lay out his/her case in that time period?
BumRushDaShow
(149,120 posts)bots function that quickly?
progree
(11,715 posts)even if the jury doesn't "get it".
On Edit: Alerted on #37 too at 330p CT. Really showed his/her true colors there.
Oops its all gone bye bye now. Something about Hillary being the one who lied about the 17 intelligence agencies (sigh). Anyway, the person's screenname is "GoingToAmarillo" ha ha ha. Going going gone!
https://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=profile&uid=342628
mac56
(17,680 posts)Please make yourself at home and enjoy your stay for many months.
Elwood P Dowd
(11,450 posts)NRaleighLiberal
(61,030 posts)herding cats
(19,659 posts)I'm not aware of any provision in the Constitution which would address this type of situation.
L. Coyote
(51,134 posts)except that Congress is authorized to start wars on other countries.
Link to tweet
Seriously, "How do we get from where we are today to President Hillary Clinton in the White House?" is a valid question in this predicament.
When will the revelation that the Electoral college was FIXED come out?

boston bean
(36,747 posts)kimbutgar
(24,559 posts)Were they paid to the hackers for doing their job. Is ivanka clothing company actually a money laundering operation? No big retailers are carrying her stuff. She says overseas sales are good but a friend of mine who was visiting her family in China told me the state media does not broadcast positive things about chump and her friends wouldn't be caught buying her clothes. They are all so dirty but I want a deluge now exposing them for the criminals they are. Not this drip drip stuff.
TheFrenchRazor
(2,116 posts)ElementaryPenguin
(7,886 posts)Trump GOPers might collude with Russia, but they would NEVER stoop so low as to tamper with our voting machines!!! That would be downright unAmerican!! For those who suggest the Russians (for some reason) could not have hacked the vote - will they make the same assertion that Republicans could not (and would not) have hacked the vote?? (when there's evidence that they did so in Presidential elections of 2000, 2004, and attempted to in 2012).
Which is undoubtedly why the French, the Canadians, and the Dutch all exclusively use paper ballots, (as we did, back when we were still a democracy, previous to 2000.)
spanone
(138,466 posts)smirkymonkey
(63,221 posts)
Equinox Moon
(6,344 posts)Get em!
L. Coyote
(51,134 posts)iluvtennis
(21,092 posts)Sculpin Beauregard
(1,046 posts)Tillerson, Bannon, Ryan, etc. The party needs to pay. This is unprecedented corruption and collusion. It is treason.
BSdetect
(9,048 posts)There is so much stuff to juggle.
I hope this does not drag on much longer.
When will someone step up and demand that trump is arrested?
HopeAgain
(4,407 posts)I think if there were direct evidence like that, we would be seeing more than we are at this point. Not trying to rain on anyone's parade, I just think speculation is just that- speculation.
Sculpin Beauregard
(1,046 posts)HopeAgain
(4,407 posts)Unless there is direct evidence of this, it is little more than speculation. 17 Agencies agreed the Russians were behind the hacking, but I will wait to see if they have enough evidence to tie Trump himself to that. What we strongly suspect and what we can prove are two different things.
progressoid
(51,130 posts)We're going to need something a lot more concrete than anonymous sources.
Lint Head
(15,064 posts)I don't think these idiots think it's true. It's too big. I really hate cowards.
Sculpin Beauregard
(1,046 posts)Lint Head
(15,064 posts)Justice
(7,198 posts)octoberlib
(14,971 posts)Since the memo became public in January, Steele had not spoken about his role in compiling it but he and his company, Orbis Business Intelligence Limited, have filed a defence in the high court of justice in London, in a defamation case brought by Aleksej Gubarev, a Russian venture capitalist and owner of a global computer technology company, XBT, and a Dallas-based subsidiary Webzilla.
Gubarev, who was named along with his company in the December memo as being involved in hacking operation, has denied any such involvement and is also suing Buzzfeed in the US courts for publishing the December memo alongside Steeles earlier reports on election hacking.
A statement by Steeles defence lawyers, endorsed by the former MI6 agent, said Orbis was hired between June and November last year by Fusion GPS, a Washington-based research consultancy to look into Trumps links with Russia.
L. Coyote
(51,134 posts)
bucolic_frolic
(49,264 posts)is that the evidence is already known about but being corroborated, AND
no one knows what to do or how this will play out, even the IC, AND
there are political repercussions, domestic and international, that must be
assessed, gauged, managed, and timed to minimize problems, AND
I have a hard time believing that this will not expose how deeply awash
in campaign cash contributions our government is from more than one
global source, and perhaps even how our system supports democracy
around the world. It's worthy of a Robert Ludlum novel.
Few study the period, but immediately post WWII, the U.S. wanted
democratic elections in eastern European countries that Stalin's Soviet
Union had liberated. We wanted our corporations to bring free enterprise,
private banking, development, and a profit incentive system, the Soviets
of course wanted social ownership of industries - communism. We are having
similar issues over how things will be run today, maybe not with Russia so
much as with laissez-faire vs. government regulation of for profit companies.
BumRushDaShow
(149,120 posts)There needs to be almost a loose shadow government created behind the scenes comprised of those not implicated, in order to "step in" to keep this juggernaut country functional and moving without causing major panic and jitters on the market.
Honeycombe8
(37,648 posts)Sculpin Beauregard
(1,046 posts)The Guardian link is some of what may have been in the briefing, based on the Steele Dossier, and UK intelligence agencies are confirming the info in the dossier.
Trump collusion with Russia, confirmed.
Honeycombe8
(37,648 posts)cilla4progress
(26,257 posts)and Maxine Waters' response also when she received disclosures that something grievous has occurred.
What many here are saying makes sense to me: the concern about destablilizing the US and even internationally is responsible for the slow and gradual pace. Hell, it could lead to armed conflict here if trump is appeared to be run out of office only by dems. Maybe gorsuch was part of the deal?
Also, Chaffetz's sudden need for emergency surgery on a 12 year old injury...
L. Coyote
(51,134 posts)Very clever coup over congressional ability to respond to the situation. One has to wonder how criminally compromised they are, even if unwittingly.
cilla4progress
(26,257 posts)maybe will redound to our benefit ultimately in recusals a la Sessions.
L. Coyote
(51,134 posts)I get the feeling I'll get to say "I told you so" quite a lot.
kentuck
(113,353 posts)...then the Congress must be trying to figure out how to handle it? This is not an ever-day event.
Botany
(73,591 posts)




hughee99
(16,113 posts)when they still had the a chance to do something about it, and remained silent?
BumRushDaShow
(149,120 posts)and were trying to connect a lot of dots... but that dossier came literally weeks before the inauguration and note that folks are STILL going through that trying to corroborate it. Remember that the current administration was briefed on some of it by Yates.
By Adam Entous, Ellen Nakashima and Philip Rucker February 13
<...>
The acting attorney general informed the Trump White House late last month that she believed Michael Flynn had misled senior administration officials about the nature of his communications with the Russian ambassador to the United States, and warned that the national security adviser was potentially vulnerable to Russian blackmail, current and former U.S. officials said.
<...>
For Yates and other officials, concerns about the communications peaked in the days after the Obama administration on Dec. 29 announced measures to punish Russia for what it said was the Kremlins interference in the election in an attempt to help Trump.
After the sanctions were rolled out, the Obama administration braced itself for the Russian retaliation. To the surprise of many U.S. officials, Russian President Vladimir Putin announced on Dec. 30 that there would be no response. Trump praised the decision on Twitter.
Intelligence analysts began to search for clues that could help explain Putins move. The search turned up Kislyaks communications, which the FBI routinely monitors, and the phone call in question with Flynn, a retired Army lieutenant general with years of intelligence experience. From that call and subsequent intercepts, FBI agents wrote a secret report summarizing Flynns discussions with Kislyak.
<...>
https://www.washingtonpost.com/world/national-security/justice-department-warned-white-house-that-flynn-could-be-vulnerable-to-russian-blackmail-officials-say/2017/02/13/fc5dab88-f228-11e6-8d72-263470bf0401_story.html
Blue_Tires
(57,596 posts)BumRushDaShow
(149,120 posts)as you well know! https://www.democraticunderground.com/10141762843
Mr. Ected
(9,689 posts)She's going to lower the boom on Mike Flynn. Flynn is the linchpin in the Trump Russia collusion investigation. Shed evidentiary light on his shenanigans, and one by one the Trump gang will crumble. Carter Page will be next in line. Epshteyn, Manafort and Roger Stone go down together. That's when it's going to get interesting. They'll all stab each other in the back and spill more and more of their criminal behavior. We may see the tentacles reach to Congress, to Mitch McConnell, to Paul Ryan, to Devin Nunes, to Jason Chaffetz, to Richard Burr. Temperatures getting higher. No embedded Congresscritter is going to let Trump get away with bringing them down, so they'll point their pointy little fingers at Mr. Trump, Mr. Bannon, Mr. Sessions, and Mr. Kushner. It will be a freaking free-for-all, and our country will SUFFER terribly as a result of it.
I want to believe that justice is blind and truly will prevail. I have also been deemed to be an optimist.
riversedge
(74,520 posts)Mr. Ected
(9,689 posts)Brave woman. Very brave woman. I hope that she is under 24 hour protection.
Here's what's crazy: the last time the House had her scheduled to testify, Devin Nunes went berzerk with his surreal press conferences at the White House. He also called off that first Sally Yates hearing.
Now that the Jason Chaffetz-led committee investigating Russia Gate has formally demanded that Sally Yates testify in front of it, Jason Chaffetz announces that he won't be running for re-election AND that he'll be taking a few weeks off, starting NOW, due to a recurring foot injury. Right.
What Sally Yates is about to drop is going to start the dominoes falling. Mark my words.
cilla4progress
(26,257 posts)So very suspicious, Nunes and Chaffetz, especially.
Good thing we don't have mysterious assassinations here like they do in Russia.
Stay safe, Ms. Yates.
Eliot Rosewater
(32,751 posts)but if I use the pic then that is all we will talk about, how the pic is a few weeks old.
calimary
(85,453 posts)Son of a gun!
He said while we can't be sure yet, the Guardian has a very reputable track record, "but if this is true, then trump's presidency is over." Maybe not over in that he's ousted but over in the sense that he's finished with the international community and won't have a smooth time domestically. He said trump is WAY in over his head, and that he (Howard Dean) is surprised that trump has lasted this long. Thought he'd be gone after the first two or three primaries. Dean also said "the water gets hotter an hotter for this guy."
Mr. Ected
(9,689 posts)Is this simply mainstream press verification/authentication of what she's told us she'd uncovered?
More_Cowbell
(2,213 posts)She also has a post on this today.
One thing that's becoming more obvious is that Trump was never really trying to run any of his businesses that failed. They were all just ways to launder money, particularly for the Russians.
My money is on Trump claiming he has been diagnosed with dementia. I hope the New York AG keeps on him for the RICO and other violations he's investigating, so that no potential future president can pardon Trump for those crimes.
L. Coyote
(51,134 posts)A copy was passed to John McCain, who gave a copy to Comey. It was in Republican hands until this leak, albeit Louise Mensch and others seem to have sources in Her Majesty's government and had either some particulars or the broad implications. The court filing is from early in the month.
As to when this info or how much of it passed to the Gang of Eight, I don't know. FBI could have had good reasons to keep a lid on it so as to not compromise their investigation.
Link to tweet
HoneyBadger
(2,297 posts)Isn't that backwards?
L. Coyote
(51,134 posts)flamingdem
(40,148 posts)This should be game over..
Sculpin Beauregard
(1,046 posts)This presidency should go to CLINTON. It was STOLEN. NO GOP GOVT.
Auntie Bush
(17,528 posts)If Trump is thrown out...everyone has been fearing Pence. But that's wrong! Russia got the GOP in office ....so no way should another GOP member get the Presidency! it should to a DEM/Clinton ...not Pence!
TheFrenchRazor
(2,116 posts)KewlKat
(5,750 posts)Judi Lynn
(163,134 posts)I hope Grassley was miserable, standing with Diane Feinstein.
People like him have been creating this environment in Congress all this time.
This is far more than it would take to have sent any Democrat away for life!
Thank you for the super good news.
burrowowl
(18,169 posts)Demsrule86
(71,078 posts)he will be able to go back to his 'old' life assuming he does wear an orange jumpsuit and occupy a prison cell.
dalton99a
(87,399 posts)Kablooie
(18,866 posts)This will be ignored.
Take a look at the news headlines. Where do you see this mentioned?
While Republicans are in power this will not be news.
dhill926
(16,953 posts)L. Coyote
(51,134 posts)LaydeeBug
(10,291 posts)frankieallen
(583 posts)An alleged memo
Un-named sources
The possibility that it was confirmed
I swear this stuff is put out by republicans for their own amusement.
Sculpin Beauregard
(1,046 posts)L. Coyote
(51,134 posts)mcar
(44,217 posts)triron
(22,240 posts)Hekate
(96,760 posts)bdamomma
(67,719 posts)Gothmog
(160,104 posts)Laura PourMeADrink
(42,770 posts)distancing the ones who actually orchestrated the whole thing. And, there were discussions in TT - but Trump is resting easy on that - he accused everyone of tapping - only to have everyone fall for it and say TT was not.
L. Coyote
(51,134 posts)sellitman
(11,698 posts)An old retired British spy? Really?
That was the reply of a friend of mine. They could have a signed confession and Cheeto Face would be innocent.
Amazing.