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Related: Editorials & Other Articles, Issue Forums, Alliance Forums, Region ForumsBernie Sanders Defends Ann Coulter
I dont like this. I dont like it, Sanders told The Huffington Post in response to the security threats that forced the university to put off the conservative firebrands event.
Obviously Ann Coulters outrageous―to my mind, off the wall. But you know, people have a right to give their two cents-worth, give a speech, without fear of violence and intimidation, he added.
The senator from Vermont also slammed protesters who said Coulter shouldnt be given a platform to speak at the university, calling them a sign of intellectual weakness.
https://heatst.com/culture-wars/bernie-sanders-defends-ann-coulter-slams-intellectually-weak-student-activists/
The Velveteen Ocelot
(115,656 posts)And I agree with him, as should we all.
spanone
(135,802 posts)Wounded Bear
(58,618 posts)Being a progressive requires a bit of subtlety and nuance that the reactionaries of far right and left cannot summon.
mountain grammy
(26,605 posts)emulatorloo
(44,096 posts)uponit7771
(90,323 posts)whathehell
(29,050 posts)Just a thought.
brush
(53,758 posts)Of course there should be free speech but come on. Doesn't he have anything better to do?
He couldn't be bothered to endorse Jon Ossoff, a Dem in a special election to Congress but he can speak up for effin Ann Coulter?
God!
JCanete
(5,272 posts)GOP frat boys pseudo-intellectual talking points. It is actually a poor strategic move. We should be thinking about this. I grant that it's more complicated than that, and that paid-for venues of political shills is going beyond simple free speech, but this is still bad optics, again, far far far too easily packaged into sound=bytes for the masses who are already eager to disavow the "librul elite" and their book learning, etc. and to make false equivalences about our own intolerance. Why are we giving them that fuel?
Sanders is if nothing else, making a distinction that there are liberals who do not want free speech threatened, even to prevent someone as despicable as Coulter from speaking.
brush
(53,758 posts)let them figure it out themselves. No need to get involved. There are more important things for the Dem outreach chairman to take care of than coming to Ann effin Coulter's aid.
Stay out of it and there is no story for repugs to use. Not rocket science.
QC
(26,371 posts)to defend the First Amendment?
Honestly, can you not find a more plausible pretext to find fault with him than this? It's just sad and desperate.
brush
(53,758 posts)Why get involved with Ann Coulter's problems?
QC
(26,371 posts)It's also a terrible, awful, dumb strategy to allow people like her and Milo to portray themselves as free speech martyrs. They're nothing more than trolls.
brush
(53,758 posts)cloudythescribbler
(2,586 posts)The notion of why get involved -- categorically, suggests that this is merely the action of a few "trolls" who are not worth the attention of Bernie Sanders. The opposite is the case. The issue of not allowing RWers like Ann Coulter ('no free speech for fascists') is a long-standing view of some on the Left (both authentically left & not) and is becoming more predominant among progressives in the current era than was true, say, 30 years ago. The overall issue is of importance and Bernie Sanders, as the best-known socialist in the US today has every reason to address it -- on his terms, when & where it is most favorable. It is important that it is known that progressives do indeed believe in free speech, even for vile characters like Ann Coulter. This is why the ACLU defended the right of the Nazis to march in Skokie (which was pushing the envelope in terms of provocation, but was nevertheless within bounds of expression that was rightfully defended). Remaining silent as an overall strategy for leading leftists, as you seem to suggest is the right way, leaves the field only to those -- who are more than a few trolls -- who do not believe in free speech.
A couple of other points. The right of demonstration against this speech should also be recognized, including even militant demonstration (like there was in Berkeley when Milo Yiannopolous was there -- and now he plans to return for a whole week of events -- though of course attacks against persons that are not like self-defense (eg from police assault) are NOT a protected right). Sorry about all the parens but there are exceptions to general rules and exceptions to exceptions. And if the militancy of the demonstration, even to the point of vandalism and other acts of uncivil disobedience that are short of real violence to persons creates problems for some speakers, that is all part of the conflict-allowance that is part of the First Amendment and the kind of society it presumes. Sure, some people might get prosecuted for "failing to disperse" or something, and then a jury might exercise the right of juror nullification and so forth. Often these demonstrations are treated as "violating" the free speech of speakers, as if there were some Constitutional prohibition of heckling.
But threats against and assaults against persons DO violate a person's right of expression, and it is important that progressives visibly are known NOT to universally embrace that (or remain conveniently silent). It is not sufficient to say that advocating higher military spending or Islamophobic views are automatically "assaults" and can be treated with violence, like "fighting words". The breakdown of this system of allowing speech and protest but disallowing personal assaults is perfectly comfy for the right.
There is the question of WHEN to be silent and WHEN to speak up about this. That is a strategic question. Bernie Sanders in this situation seemed to have been in a favorable enough environment where he could be free to express his views fully and they would reach his intended audience. HE chose to answer the question, a strategic question, and I have no reason to believe it was an egregious error in principle OR strategically for him to do so. I also think that other progressives should, without "Gitlinizing" (finger-wagging at militant Leftists generally) defend NOT Ann Coulter but the system of free speech.
I would also add that SOME kinds of speech, speech that as a practical matter seriously threatens persons within the community in the ways that Milo Yiannopolous does, like outing transgender people by name, or the threat (apparently) to do so with undocumented students and others in the campus community, also crosses a certain line that Ann Coulter (or what I've seen of her on Bill Maher) does not. I will never forgive her for her gloating response to the Nov 13 2015 attacks in Paris (which were on my birthday, as it happens), saying at that time that that day, Trump was elected president of the US. Vile creature. But that doesn't change the arguments here, which attempt to lay out some kind of principled basis for distinction b/t the allowable and the non-allowable.
Also, it should be noted that RWers come to Berkeley precisely TO provoke a response and to exploit it. That's why the Republican Club made the invitations -- to drum up support in the name of free speech. At the April 15 clash, there were MAJOR "alt-right" (neofascist) leaders from across the country. They knew a great photo op when they see one. The Leftists were mainly from the Bay Area. The tactics of physical assault are an arena where the alt-right people are very much at home (and even many Leftists conceded afterwards that the RWers got the better of the violent confrontations, aside from whatever the police did or did not do). It is a case of the maxim that when you wrestle a pig, both of you will get covered in mud & the pig will be right at home.
So the whole issue is one of many nuances and complexities, and it is very important, and Bernie was totally right to speak out about it
Lately there has been a lot of sniping at Bernie, the underlying agenda of which is to weaken his role as one leader of the progressive mobilization within and outside the Democratic Party. Much of this sniping comes at least ostensibly from the Left (many on the Left think that ANY effort w/in the Democratic Party whatsoever is anathema, but THAT'S WHERE MOST OF THE PROGRESSIVE MASSES WHO ARE WILLING TO EVEN VOTE OR BECOME ACTIVE ARE.
Like it isn't bad optics for Bernie to be calling the victims of hate speech standing up for themselves intellectually weak? There's his foot in his mouth, yet again. But somehow that's ok.
whathehell
(29,050 posts)I reject the idea that he was "speaking up" for Coulter, rather than defending free speech.
TheFrenchRazor
(2,116 posts)kacekwl
(7,016 posts)this crap is getting out of hand.
brush
(53,758 posts)Dr. Strange
(25,917 posts)Howard Dean, for example, doesn't think she has a right to free speech. Bernie Sanders does.
mythology
(9,527 posts)Obviously Ann Coulters outrageous―to my mind, off the wall. But you know, people have a right to give their two cents-worth, give a speech, without fear of violence and intimidation, he added.
This silliness of Sanders is perfect/evil needs to stop. Drop the feud. It's not useful.
guillaumeb
(42,641 posts)Raster
(20,998 posts)...for Clinton's loss IS STILL ALLOWED TO CONTROL THE NARRATIVE ON DU. Still.
m-lekktor
(3,675 posts)kstewart33
(6,551 posts)Posting Bernie stuff and re-igniting the debate about who/what Bernie is and is he good or bad.
A complete waste of time.
AJT
(5,240 posts)LovingA2andMI
(7,006 posts)And now we are quoting Blogs for Clicks as Facts.....The Slippery Slope is falling down the mountain faster than a speeding bullet.
One would think this "Renewed Throw Bernie Under The Bus" Stance of some is an effort to SERIOUSLY DIVIDE the Democratic Party and DNC Chair's Tom Perez stance to UNIFY the Party for the 2018 Election Cycle.
And If That Is It, How Is It Any Different Than What Happened In Election 2016 with the Fake News and Trolling of Democratic Websites In Other To Un-Unify The Base of Liberals, Progressives, Left of Center Democrats and Independents -- some of whom stayed home in Election 2016 due to the planted barrage of "Fake News" information on Social Media Sites -- that sadly and unfortunately led to Trump being in the White House.
#FoodForThought
True Dough
(17,294 posts)There is a major distinction and an important one!
J_William_Ryan
(1,749 posts)No one's rights are being violated, including the right to free speech.
The Velveteen Ocelot
(115,656 posts)Last edited Mon Apr 24, 2017, 01:17 PM - Edit history (1)
an instrumentality of the government, which may not suppress speech protected by the First Amendment. Even more important is the fundamental principle that the remedy for offensive speech is more speech, not suppression. The ACLU defended the right of the American Nazi Party - an organization even more offensive than Ann Coulter, if that could be possible - to hold a parade through the largely Jewish town of Skokie, IL. If the ACLU decided to defend Ann Coulter I'd be fine with it.
emulatorloo
(44,096 posts)They came to their senses apparently.
Trumpocalypse
(6,143 posts)They are just not giving her a platform. There's a difference.
uponit7771
(90,323 posts)QC
(26,371 posts)doesn't serve the purpose of vilifying him and dividing Democrats.
sammythecat
(3,568 posts)Good God this shit is getting old. Anymore, coming here is just a big fucking downer. I hate this OP. It's the result of flat out stupidity or else flat out dishonesty. It could be both, because it is stupid and it is not true.
beam me up scottie
(57,349 posts)Eliot Rosewater
(31,109 posts)Berkeley about why the holocaust happened, that it was a good thing and we need another one for Jewish people, Muslims and gay people, and the university told me I couldnt speak there, what would that be?
pnwmom
(108,973 posts)is objecting to a date 5 days after the original date. But she's not being denied a chance to speak.
ehrnst
(32,640 posts)beam me up scottie
(57,349 posts)elleng
(130,825 posts)'In 1978, the ACLU took a controversial stand for free speech by defending a neo-Nazi group that wanted to march through the Chicago suburb of Skokie , where many Holocaust survivors lived. The notoriety of the case caused some ACLU members to resign, but to many others the case has come to represent the ACLU's unwavering commitment to principle. In fact, many of the laws the ACLU cited to defend the group's right to free speech and assembly were the same laws it had invoked during the Civil Rights era, when Southern cities tried to shut down civil rights marches with similar claims about the violence and disruption the protests would cause. Although the ACLU prevailed in its free speech arguments, the neo-Nazi group never marched through Skokie, instead agreeing to stage a rally at Federal Plaza in downtown Chicago.'
https://www.aclu.org/other/aclu-history-taking-stand-free-speech-skokie
A former colleague of mine represented ACLU in the case.
katmondoo
(6,454 posts)stopbush
(24,393 posts)not what she usually says.
ThoughtCriminal
(14,047 posts)very Trollish and misleading headline in the OP. This needs to stop. And DU members should stop giving this sort of garbage recs.
kacekwl
(7,016 posts)ehrnst
(32,640 posts)Dustlawyer
(10,494 posts)Eko
(7,272 posts)Period.
The Velveteen Ocelot
(115,656 posts)Period.
Eko
(7,272 posts)When am I slated to speak there? Or you? I think you are confusing the right of the government not to stop you speaking with the right of a university to not give special treatment for someone to speak.
ProfessorPlum
(11,254 posts)Eko
(7,272 posts)Using the commons area of a university to speak is a protected free speech area, declining to have a speaker at a forum is not. The university also has grounds to halt/stop someone from speaking if they believe there is a threat from that speech. Someone's right to free speech does not override others right to life liberty and happiness.
ProfessorPlum
(11,254 posts)but the university obviously thought that making a first amendment martyr of Coulter was an even worse outcome.
The appearance of free speech, even if it isn't technically required, is probably a good move for a government organization.
Much as it galls me to have her invited to speak anywhere, except to herself from her straight jacket.
Eko
(7,272 posts)Therefore she has no free speech rights to speak at a forum on a university. Not a free speech issue. If they let her speak and there were riots and people got hurt would that be better? of course not. Then the university could be held liable for that if it was shown that they had knowledge that it was probable.
ProfessorPlum
(11,254 posts)It seems that the people actually empowered to make the decisions disagree with you.
Eko
(7,272 posts)like the university or the law or the constitution? Wow.
ProfessorPlum
(11,254 posts)why am I in this dumb conversation anyway? Berkeley couldn't give two figs what either of us think.
dopey.
Eko
(7,272 posts)You thought she had a right to speak at the forum when she didn't. Now you know. Sure, I'm dopey for knowing the law when you didn't,
Whatever.
boston bean
(36,220 posts)karynnj
(59,500 posts)What I think is that when since at least 2008, Goldman Sachs and big banks, were seen as the cause of the painful economic crash for which they seemed to pay no price, it is tone deaf for a person planning to run for President to earn a large amount of money giving private speeches giving them access and then not providing the transcript.
All totally legal .. not immoral .. not unethical -- definitely tone deaf.
boston bean
(36,220 posts)karynnj
(59,500 posts)Cha
(297,029 posts)athena
(4,187 posts)Exilednight
(9,359 posts)TNLib
(1,819 posts)They pay dearly for the college experience and Universities should listen to their students.
uponit7771
(90,323 posts)The Velveteen Ocelot
(115,656 posts)The remedy for "bad" speech is more speech. What happens if the tables turn and someone decides your speech is bad? As Supreme Court Justice Louis Brandeis pointed out in Whitney v. California: "If there be time to expose through discussion the falsehood and fallacies, to avert the evil by the processes of education, the remedy to be applied is more speech, not enforced silence."
uponit7771
(90,323 posts)Kentonio
(4,377 posts)Then their ideas end up growing underground and causing far more damage. Let them speak in public and destroy them with reason and logic. In an open debate, fairness and justice win.
uponit7771
(90,323 posts)Kentonio
(4,377 posts)uponit7771
(90,323 posts)Kentonio
(4,377 posts)Students need to be faced with a whole range of opinions, including those that are abhorrent to them. The important distinction however is that those opinions do not and should not go unchallenged (and that goes for opinions from all parts of the spectrum).
I hate seeing these protests trying to prevent people from making speeches or taking part in discussion panels at colleges because its little more than intellectual cowardice or childishness. If something is going to upset you, don't go. If something offends you, go along and make a better case whether its in a debate or in the questions following a speech.
uponit7771
(90,323 posts)... here's another thing that kills me... its usually white supremacist who are invited to spew their ideas in this forum.
RARELY if ever do we here other than non white supremacist invited to this forum or someone explaining that we should listen to non white supremacist at these forums.
I might have this wrong but in deed it seems like these forums are asking for one side to be listened to ...
How about invite the racial supremacist all on stage at once ?!!?
Give them guns and some alcohol and film the forum live ?!!?
I'd pay money to see that
Kentonio
(4,377 posts)You should check out some of these kinds of forums though. There's usually robust opposition and the hate mongers just end up looking quite pathetic. The problem when you have protesters is that the hater can play the victim card and post videos of 'liberals trampling on free speech'. It's much better to just calmly and politely eviscerate that speech instead.
JCanete
(5,272 posts)Last edited Mon Apr 24, 2017, 03:07 PM - Edit history (2)
as in explicitly inciting violence, then it is up to interpretation. If that interpretation is spun as "you just don't like what we're saying so you're calling it hate speech," that undermines us. It does not help us when we cede this kind of ground on democratic principles when such a thing is so easily spun as us being intolerant and controlling what free speech is free speech.
You are right though, when someone, who really in Coulter's case has nothing of intellectual value to say(but that's my own value judgement) is given a forum, and on a campus that people pay tuition to, what is the recourse? You are right, that "free" speech is not equally made available. I think if there's that much fervor, and that many people willing to get out there, the alternative would be to have an alternative forum, bigger and louder and to let Coulter speak to her room of fifty or so.
panader0
(25,816 posts)Trying to fit in?
Nanjeanne
(4,918 posts)NurseJackie
(42,862 posts)... the full original headline:
... and it appears that the words you think are "missing" weren't actually there in the first place.
Nanjeanne
(4,918 posts)Misunderstood completely. OP title made it out that Sanders was defending Ann Coulter when it was quite apparent that he stated he disagreed completely what she was saying but still believed in her right to speak. But then I have a feeling you actually knew that .. but whatever. It's Bernie Sanders - so ...
NurseJackie
(42,862 posts)I guess it makes sense that someone who's a "mind-reader" would automatically assume that everyone else is also a mind-reader and would therefore instantly understand what they were thinking (instead of what they actually wrote.)
Nanjeanne
(4,918 posts)Mind reading skills to figure out your post. No need to respond again. I think I get it. It's something rude and probably something about Sanders. Zzzzzzzzzzzzz. 😴
beam me up scottie
(57,349 posts)NurseJackie
(42,862 posts)Nanjeanne
(4,918 posts)NurseJackie
(42,862 posts)JustAnotherGen
(31,798 posts)I'll try to wave quieter!
ehrnst
(32,640 posts)Cha
(297,029 posts)beam me up scottie
(57,349 posts)Last edited Mon Apr 24, 2017, 07:29 PM - Edit history (2)
They use misleading headlines to promote their agenda.
Factual Reporting: MIXED
Notes: Heat Street is a conservative opinion and commentary website. Launched in February 2016, the website is headed by British writer and former politician Louise Mensch. It is owned by News Corp under Dow Jones & Company. This source has a right wing bias through wording and story selection. Heat Street was also one of the sources Donald Trump quoted for his debunked claim that his phone was wiretapped by Obama.
https://mediabiasfactcheck.com/heat-street/
Thank you for calling it out.
George II
(67,782 posts)....the exact headline:
"Bernie Sanders Defends Ann Coulter, Slams Intellectually Weak Student Activists"
Ace Rothstein
(3,150 posts)Trashed
TexasProgresive
(12,157 posts)Defending someones right to speak doesn't infer accepting what that are saying.
"I disapprove of what you say, but I will defend to the death your right to say it" The Friends of Voltaire by Evelyn Beatrice Hall aka S. G. Tallentyre
Demsrule86
(68,539 posts)This was an area where holocaust survivors lived...but the Nazis had constitutional right to assemble...the ACLU did defend them. But Berkeley is not the government, and they can disallow Coulter's speech if they choose...and they should...her hate speech should not be encouraged by anyone.
Glassunion
(10,201 posts)Demsrule86
(68,539 posts)TexasProgresive
(12,157 posts)What has happened is there are very few spaces where free speech is allowed because most "commons" are privately owned. There was a time when a person could go into a public space and speak, not any longer. Berkley is a publicly funded university and as such should make allowances for free speech.
As to Ms. Coulter, I think she is a reprehensible human being. I bought one of her books used so I could read her without giving her a boost. It was awful, never again.
Demsrule86
(68,539 posts)No one has a right to spew hate in any venue.
Exilednight
(9,359 posts)Demsrule86
(68,539 posts)constitutional right...
HopeAgain
(4,407 posts)I vote for this OP.
LovingA2andMI
(7,006 posts)n/t
demmiblue
(36,833 posts)Dr Hobbitstein
(6,568 posts)I voted to hide as it CLEARLY breaks the rules.
beam me up scottie
(57,349 posts)Demsrule86
(68,539 posts)The OP uses direct quotes from Sen. Sanders...now I don't agree with him... I am sick of conservative hate speech, and this is not protected by the constitution as the government is not silencing and/or jailing her. Why does this deserve a hide?
Response to demmiblue (Reply #40)
Amimnoch This message was self-deleted by its author.
grantcart
(53,061 posts)bullwinkle428
(20,629 posts)this is clearly a CRAP HEADLINE. It wouldn't even pass the smell test at Cheetolini's precious National Enquirer.
Dr. Strange
(25,917 posts)Might I suggest you read more from that website before judging so harshly?
https://heatst.com/politics/weirdly-sexual-bernie-sanders-coloring-books-are-now-for-sale/
Okay, never mind.
pangaia
(24,324 posts)Misleading title..
demmiblue
(36,833 posts)yet another laughable source.
What the heck is going on here?!
beam me up scottie
(57,349 posts)They use misleading headlines to promote their agenda.
Factual Reporting: MIXED
Notes: Heat Street is a conservative opinion and commentary website. Launched in February 2016, the website is headed by British writer and former politician Louise Mensch. It is owned by News Corp under Dow Jones & Company. This source has a right wing bias through wording and story selection. Heat Street was also one of the sources Donald Trump quoted for his debunked claim that his phone was wiretapped by Obama.
https://mediabiasfactcheck.com/heat-street/
retrowire
(10,345 posts)Posted here to say that he was protecting freedom of speech.
Dr Hobbitstein
(6,568 posts)Heat Street, started by Louise Mensch, owned by News Corp.
Bullshit source.
m-lekktor
(3,675 posts)Last edited Mon Apr 24, 2017, 03:50 PM - Edit history (1)
Dr Hobbitstein
(6,568 posts)of a deplorable.
She is NOT our friend.
KittyWampus
(55,894 posts)I may have a beef with how Sanders talks about Democrats and the Democratic party but he was not defending Coulter.
He was defending her right to free speech.
However, protestors should be allowed THEIR free speech so Sanders really shouldn't attack them as being intellectually weak.
Kentonio
(4,377 posts)There's nothing intelligent or challenging about trying to stop someone being allowed to speak. As college students they should be devising the strongest, most robust counter arguments to utterly destroy the nonsense Coulter comes out with. Hell, its not exactly difficult.
HoneyBadger
(2,297 posts)KittyWampus
(55,894 posts)Kentonio
(4,377 posts)If its people protesting in the streets about hate speech from an elected politician then great. If its protesting someone speaking in a university though, its basically cowardly. There's no need to protest when you can walk inside, listen and then tear those ideas apart intellectually. That takes more courage though than standing outside in a mob screaming at someone.
kcr
(15,315 posts)Holding the view that hate speech mongers are merely presenting their side of a reasoned debate is really easy to do if you've never been the victim.
Kentonio
(4,377 posts)I said you can use the format of a reasoned debate to destroy their feeble nonsense, and do so in a way that makes them look foolish. People who look foolish people are far less likely to attract supporters. People who are shouted out of town are much more likely to.
What do you think happens after one of those hate mongers gets shouted out of a university or uninvited? They get free press, more money and sympathy support from likeminded assholes. They also get to use video footage and press coverage to convince gullible people that they're the good guys and we're the violent extremists.
Being the better people isn't just about being nicer, its about tactically undermining these hate merchants in the most effective and efficient way possible.
kcr
(15,315 posts)It's not just feeble nonsense. People's lives are directly affected and destroyed by what you deem feeble nonsense. Your willingness to concede the format of reasonable debate is easy to see when you make it obvious that you minimize it. It's obviously not a concern in your world.
While it is true that everyone is protected by the first amendment, even hate speech mongers, it therefore does NOT follow that everyone is entitled to all platforms and that everyone must willingly assent to give them over, even to hate speech. It's as I said in another post; those who make that claim rarely subject themselves to this "nonsense" as you call it. And it is beyond the pale that one who proclaims themselves a fighter for the little people would call the targets of this hate speech intellectually weak because they refuse to do so.
Kentonio
(4,377 posts)Or intellectual reason to them. They're easy to demolish because they stand on pathetic and weak foundations that don't hold up to scrutiny.
I have no idea why you're trying to make this personal.
kcr
(15,315 posts)That's not how it works with these people because that's not their intention. And that matters. If that' how you engage them, you're taking a knife to a gun fight. You'll never win. All you're doing is giving them more publicity and that's what they want. Only you're serving them up their victims against their will when you let them have their pick of their forums under the guise of free speech! That's why Bernie's argument is especially egregious. This idea of giving them legitimacy as if they really want to just debate, and then setting them loose on college campuses? Yes, they're places of education and exchanges of ideas. That's NOT what hate speech mongers do! Just because it's words coming out of their mouths. It's nothing better than saying stalkers should have access to their victims because they just wanna talk! That's all! Come on, you're repressing their rights!
Kentonio
(4,377 posts)It was the accepted way of dealing with these kinds of people for centuries and it actually works. It doesn't matter what the hater's intentions are. As for 'setting them loose on college campuses' that is you giving them far more credit than they deserve. College students are not gullible idiots, they're supposed to be there to learn to think for themselves. They're young adults, not a bunch of kids who need to be carefully guarded from any bad words.
As for publicity, which do you think gives them more publicity? 'Hater x goes to college and gets made to look a fool' or 'Hater x faces massive violent protests and is prevented from speaking at a college'? Which of those do you think the press is going to run with more, and which do you think gives the better optics?
kcr
(15,315 posts)"The Kentonio Way of Dealing with Hate Speech, VOL DIV" I think a whole lot of people might be missing it.
It doesn't matter what the hater's intentions are? Well, that might be a chapter in KWDHS. I would have missed that, see. But honestly, I fail to see how their intentions wouldn't matter. See, if they don't want to debate, they won't engage in the debate. Which is exactly what happens. They aren't interested. They just blather their hate, which, because it isn't nonsense, actually has an effect. It's why college campuses aren't keen on actually inviting them! I'm beginning to see why KWDHS maybe isn't a best seller...
Kentonio
(4,377 posts)And getting their asses handed to them by the highly intelligent and motivated young adults studying there, who are fully capable of both recognizing and demolishing hate speech when they hear it.
What is KWDHS? The only return on google was 'KAMBALDA WEST DISTRICT HIGH SCHOOL' which I'm guessing isn't what you're referring to. Educate me please.
kcr
(15,315 posts)to have them. There are plenty of places for those who want to hand asses oh so intelligently and look oh so brave and intelligent while doing so. But I have to question their motives when they insist that it has to be done where others have to be subjected to that hate against their will. There are plenty of instances where it didn't go so neatly. These people have had a history of bringing along violent provocateurs, for example. Because their intention is NOT innocent debate. And that's not even counting the after effect of hate they leave in their wake.
The argument that colleges are supposed to be about exchanges of ideas doesn't cut it. I can't simply wonder into a college uninvited and express myself. Why not? If the argument is college is about exchange of ideas, then why can't I go in there and express mine? Because that's not the entirety of the reason of their existence. It's obviously curated and selective. So, there is no reason to insist that part of the curriculum HAS to include hate speech. Or that students who wish to pursue their education unaccosted are somehow weak.
Kentonio
(4,377 posts)Those kind of forums aren't usually a mandatory thing, unless the student is part of a course where its a relevant topic that they're expected to understand thoroughly.
The reason colleges occasionally invite controversial speakers, is because it gives willing students the opportunity to debate subjects from angles that they might otherwise come into contact with in their studies, and give them new perspectives, not least on how some extreme people and groups frame their arguments. It's actually a great way for young people to learn about the more extreme opinions out there, and prepare them for dealing with those in the real world.
I do understand why you don't want people given a platform for hate, but I'm a huge believer in reason and knowledge being the best tools for beating hate. We live in such a shallow and facile society these days where idiots ranting on the radio have a bigger platform than professors, and on the radio or on their websites there's no counter arguments allowed. Just please trust our educated youngsters to be able to not only survive exposure to this stuff in colleges, but also be smart enough to destroy it.
kcr
(15,315 posts)Why do you think colleges reject them? There is a reason, and colleges should absolutely be allowed to do so. Allowing hate speakers to have free reign over colleges and taking away the ability for colleges to reject them will shut out college as an opportunity for many students. It will be just one more area where they are subjected to the same repression they are everywhere else. College is one area that can afford everyone economic and social mobility but it won't be able to do so effectively if it becomes just one more institution where the privileged reign supreme. Hate speech is just one tool that ensures this happens. It's the reason hate speakers are targeting it specifically. They know what they are doing. And they're unfortunately getting the help of some people who should absolutely know better. It's shameful.
Kentonio
(4,377 posts)Colleges are the ones inviting them to speak, and withdrawing invitations when large student protests make their visits untenable. No-one is forcing the colleges to do anything.
PJMcK
(22,022 posts)And the source is crap.
MicaelS
(8,747 posts)To any of the posts made in this thread. This is his tactic. Posts something inflammatory, and almost never replies.
Kali
(55,006 posts)Bradical79
(4,490 posts)I don't know that I agree with him, but he's defending her right to speak and how it looks to silence people like her rather than challenge them intelectually. I can see his point, but I don't think anyone is obligated to give a platform to outright hate speech. She can have a public speech not taking up student facilities, imo. I'm also not sure anymore that such an idealist approach is practically effective.
That said, I don't know what's right regarding the university's policy or legal obligation towards invited speakers.
The Velveteen Ocelot
(115,656 posts)As such they may be considered an instrumentality of the government, and have to be damn careful about how they treat free speech issues.
asiliveandbreathe
(8,203 posts)offends intelligent people...she can say anything she wants, just not at Berkeley - she does this just to raise a ruckus....
This is not intellectual weakness, it is intellectual strength - go muddy the waters someplace else..just like I tell my neighbors who want to bring their RW rhetoric to my backyard...you haven't got anything good to say - stay away...NO diff..
Dr. Strange
(25,917 posts)So glad to see our side adopting the worst ideas of the right.
MichMary
(1,714 posts)Which is a public--government--entity.
You, as a private individual, have the right to tell your neighbors to stay off your lawn, or whatever; but the government, in this case Berkeley, has an obligation to observe AC's Constitutional right to freedom of speech.
moriah
(8,311 posts)He's defending the right to free speech and condemning threats and violence for a VERY good reason -- if people have to threaten or use violence to suppress even the off-the-wall outrageous speech of Propaganda-Bot, Ann Edition, it DOES show intellectual weakness.
I was a Hillary supporter even back in 2008 and to suggest this is defending Ann herself or her beliefs, vs Constitutional rights, is a stretch that almost exceeds how far Ann herself stretches the truth.
demmiblue
(36,833 posts)That is promising.
Demsrule86
(68,539 posts)Hell Hath No Fury
(16,327 posts)As a civil libertarian, I believe that Ann Coulter and even Milo Assbutt has a right to speak at a University that they have been invited to. And listeners have a right to object to and protest that speech.
It the tables were turned and a Norm Chompsky or Malcom X-like speaker weren't allowed to talk at a University there would -- correctly -- be outrage.
Charlie Chaplin showed us in "The Great Dictator" how to handle asshats like Coulter and Milo.
Orsino
(37,428 posts)delisen
(6,042 posts)If only some of his followers would listen to his advice.
NurseJackie
(42,862 posts)Voltaire2
(12,977 posts)I guess I just don't understand du.
leftstreet
(36,102 posts)Welcome to the never ending primary at DU
A-Schwarzenegger
(15,596 posts)PatsFan87
(368 posts)Yes, people should be allowed to speak even if you disagree with them. Put on your big girl/big boy pants.
whathehell
(29,050 posts)It's all useless garbage.
leftstreet
(36,102 posts)Each day I get less enthused about logging on here
What a waste
Glassunion
(10,201 posts)I've been away for quite a while and now I'm remembering why.
HughBeaumont
(24,461 posts)It's getting fucking annoying, to be honest.
The other day, there was a thread that more or less stated that Progressives and the Alt-Right are the same thing.
Guess it's easier to blame an imagined powerful "progressive left" for a near-consecutive six-year streak of failure rather than look in a mirror or even so much as acknowledge a groundswell of progressive sentiment.
beam me up scottie
(57,349 posts)Nanjeanne
(4,918 posts)The Velveteen Ocelot
(115,656 posts)Donald Trump is in the White House and he has control over nuclear weapons, and people are whining about mean ol' Bernie? SMH
Warren DeMontague
(80,708 posts)Look here, this way you get to enjoy it over, and over, and over, and over, and over, and over, and over, and over, and over again!
uponit7771
(90,323 posts)whathehell
(29,050 posts)Can we stop this useless, divisive Bernie-bashing?
G_j
(40,366 posts)remain and continue to take up people's time and energy.
It would be a real challenge to be less productive.
kcr
(15,315 posts)Last edited Mon Apr 24, 2017, 01:14 PM - Edit history (1)
But this: "The best way to counter Coulter is to politely ask her questions which expose the weakness of her arguments, he said:
What are you afraid of ― her ideas? Ask her the hard questions. Confront her intellectually. Booing people down, or intimidating people, or shutting down events, I dont think that that works in any way.
is utter nonsense. I bet he doesn't sit around and willingly expose himself to her bullshit and ask her questions and listen to her answers. Why does he think anyone else should have to? It's really easy for people who arent' being targeted by Ann Coulter to be subjected to her swill to those who are: You have to sit down and listen to her nonsense and take it! Because she has a right to speech! So, just be polite and ask the questions! That's all ya gotta do! Then they can go home to their nice, comfy Ann Coulter free zone and chill and it's all good for them!
And to call these students intellectually lazy. Wow. He just exposes himself more and more each time he opens his mouth. Standing up to hate speech is not intellecutally lazy!
Hassin Bin Sober
(26,318 posts)kcr
(15,315 posts)"Lol." You sure showed me with that display of intelligence. Bernie would be proud.
NastyRiffraff
(12,448 posts)Free speech does NOT mean that. The right of free speech is simply that the government can't arrest you for saying things, no matter how stupid. It doesn't mean that you must be given a platform or venue, or that your book must be published or your show cannot be cancelled. It doesn't mean there will be no controversy or that people must agree with you or shut up.
Coulter, as far as I know, has not been threatened with arrest, and I'd venture to say that she wouldn't be if she did speak at Berkeley or anywhere else. Certainly she's said unbelievable stupid and deliberately provocative stuff before and has managed to stay out of jail.
NurseJackie
(42,862 posts)I remember when Ellen cancelled Kim Burrell's appearance and the gnashing of teeth and the wailing commenced about how Ellen was taking away Kim's "First Amendment rights".
Link to tweet
http://www.digitalspy.com/tv/ustv/news/a818286/pharrell-williams-ellen-degeneres-comfort-cancels-guest-homophobic-rant/
Pharrell replied: "There's no space, there's no room for any kind of prejudice in 2017 and moving on. There's no room.
mackdaddy
(1,522 posts)There, I fixed the title for you.
aquamarina
(1,865 posts)I've been here for 15 years and I never thought I would see the day that at DU we would criticize people for defending the right to speak.
The Velveteen Ocelot
(115,656 posts)If students at some university protested a speech by Noam Chomsky or Michael Moore, for example, and caused the speech to be canceled, we'd be having a huge collective hissy fit. Is it OK for our guys to speak because we like what they say, but not their guys because we don't?
And that's why we liberals - or most of us, anyhow - defend free speech. Because you never know when somebody is going to try to suppress our speech.
aquamarina
(1,865 posts)I'm reminded of that Martin Neimoller quote, first they came for the socialists...
ehrnst
(32,640 posts)Sen. Walter Sobchak
(8,692 posts)He would speak to a mostly empty room of about 15-30 people and then go home.
The violent lashing out does nothing but build the individual's stature and gives Fox News new B-roll of "violent leftists".
Although it's the protests of Charles Murray that really have me scratching my head since his shtick these days is basically shitting on privileged cloistered white people, then shitting on unskilled white men and then advocating for a universal basic income. You would think that would make him as popular a campus speaker as Jon Stewart.
forjusticethunders
(1,151 posts)Charles Murray literally thinks black people are genetically intellectually inferior to white people. And you're shocked that people are protesting?
So many "progressives" don't give a shit about racism and sexism because it doesn't affect them. But then again, Andrew Sullivan is still considered "liberal" so that doesn't surprise me.
You are exactly the kind of person that needs to get their "progressive" card revoked.
Sen. Walter Sobchak
(8,692 posts)forjusticethunders
(1,151 posts)sorry though
I really could see some jacobin type say that unironically.
SixString
(1,057 posts)Volstagg
(233 posts)People have the right to speak. It's easy to support the free expression of those you agree with. It is much harder to support the free expression of those you disagree with. Even white supremacists have First Amendment rights.
retrowire
(10,345 posts)Demsrule86
(68,539 posts)I think Sen. Sanders is wrong about this. But hey this is America and everyone has the right to their opinion. But Ann Coulter has no constitutional right to speak at any university...and I fail to see why my beliefs are objectionable to you. feds can not drag you away in the night for speech, but that doesn't mean we need the far right hate speech on college campuses.
retrowire
(10,345 posts)But the federal government cannot suppress it. Which is what Bernie is saying.
He's not saying hey let's all hear what she has to say. He's not saying not to oppose her.
By reccing this blatantly mistitled thread, youre pushing forth the idea that Bernie supports this. And that's an agenda that I take note of.
Demsrule86
(68,539 posts)Unless I was misled...he supports Ann's right to make a speech at Berkeley. I don't think she has any such right? I agree that the feds can't restrict speech, but that is not what is happening...and GOP hate speech has all but destroyed this country. What am I missing?
QC
(26,371 posts)If this were, say, Stanford, the legal situation would be different.
In any case, the best response to Coulter is to stand united against her and argue against her hateful trollery, not let her play the martyr.
Demsrule86
(68,539 posts)harassing my gay daughter and her unity club...I went to school and the protests stopped...this is a public university too. Ann has no such right...she has the right to say what she wants but in this case she is in no danger of being silenced by the government .
QC
(26,371 posts)It has very different responsibilities regarding speech than, say, a garden club or, to use an example that came up in this thread, Ellen's tv show.
There are only very limited circumstances under which a public institution can forbid speech based on content.
Demsrule86
(68,539 posts)It is a university...the government is the state houses, and the feds...and there is no right to any speech you want on a college campus.
QC
(26,371 posts)The Velveteen Ocelot
(115,656 posts)and as such may not restrict the constitutional rights of its students, faculty and others who deal with it. This has been settled law, according to the SUpreme Court, for decades - see Sweezy v. New Hampshire, 354 U.S. 234 (1957) and Keyishian v. Board of Regents, State Univ. of N.Y., 385 U.S. 589 (1967)
retrowire
(10,345 posts)Berkeley isn't a federal party so they can do something about it.
Bernie is just saying she has the right, which she does as long as berkeley allows it.
Demsrule86
(68,539 posts)university.
retrowire
(10,345 posts)Demsrule86
(68,539 posts)I checked because I wanted to make sure this was not bull shit. And he clearly says he doesn't agree with her but that she has the right to say it at Berkeley ...I just don't agree.
Lotusflower70
(3,077 posts)He defended her right to speak not what she says. UC Berkley is pissing me off. They invited her then uninvited her. That's ridiculous and hypocritical.
lies
(315 posts)another dishonest shit stirring post predicated of an attack on Sanders.... quelle surprise.
Adrahil
(13,340 posts)but he's right on this one.
OTOH, it's always okay to punch a Nazi.
Dem2
(8,168 posts)He essentially said we have a 1st Amendment.
beaglelover
(3,462 posts)bettyellen
(47,209 posts)bobalew
(321 posts)NT
liberal N proud
(60,334 posts)BS is wrong.
benpollard
(199 posts)Obviously Ann Coulters outrageous―to my mind, off the wall. But you know, people have a right to give their two cents-worth, give a speech, without fear of violence and intimidation, he added.
Some of the violence that is occurring at right-wing rallies is questionable, but "intimidation?" Coulter's entire spiel is based on intimidating liberals.
RhodeIslandOne
(5,042 posts)Ann Coulter has been given a platform to give more than that (yet it adds up to less than two cents) far more tha far more intelligent people. One could argue that she has overdone her free speech. To argue she hasn't gotten enough of her bullshit out there is outrageous.
nini
(16,672 posts)Even those we disagree with have the right to talk their nonsense.
HOWEVER, those who people who are against Coulter also have that right to say what they want.
Arazi
(6,829 posts)cwydro
(51,308 posts)Shutting down free speech is not what we should be about, no matter how vile the speaker.
onecaliberal
(32,811 posts)republicans are DESTROYING the country.. STOP THIS!!
kcr
(15,315 posts)The first amendment doesn't state that everyone must give speakers a platform. And where in the first amendment does it state that it makes a person intellectually weak because they stand up to hate speech? I'd like to see that.
QC
(26,371 posts)That means the university has to be very, very careful about trying to exclude speakers based on what they might say. There are circumstances under which they can do that, but very limited ones.
Worse, excluding someone like Coulter makes a martyr of her, rather than the troll she is.
kcr
(15,315 posts)Berkley fought the idiots claiming she had a right to be there. So, she's an especially bad hill to die on in this fight. If Berkely, a public institution that allows outside speakers (what college doesn't, btw? Is there a college that never ever allows any outside speaker, ever?) and has to be very very extra special careful, then the fact they were saying no to Ann Coulter should have been a big, fat clue on the clue bus of SHE'S INAPPROPRIATE!!! Jesus fucking christ...
QC
(26,371 posts)kcr
(15,315 posts)If you defend inflicting her damage on students who simply want to persue an education, to me, it doesn't matter. Colleges should be a place for all students regardless of their background to feel safe because it is integral to American society as an equalizer. The fact that Bernie takes this position is particularly bad, IMO. He wants to make college free for all. Yet doesn't care to make that a place that's welcoming for all persons regardless of their background. Hate speakers target college for a reason. His stance makes it so that colleges will be yet another bastion of the privileged. That is the hate speakers' intention and if free speech absolutists who don't understand how the first amendment actually works want to hand them over? It doesn't matter if they actually agree. It's irrelevant. They are defending the hate speakers.
QC
(26,371 posts)kcr
(15,315 posts)Or keep tabs on them to ensure they aren't spreading the hate and inflict it on others? Of course not. Nor should they. But this isn't about Ann Coulter specifically. This is about the notion that colleges don't have the right to reject speakers. They absolutely do, because hate speech does hurt and even kill. Even if they deem that Ann Coulter doesn't quite rise to that level and changed courses. They have that right. There are speakers much worse than Ann Coulter. Why does Bernie maintain that it's intellectual weakness to stand up to them?
Where Bernie really showed his hand is his comment about the students who objected. Calling them intellectually weak because they booed her. I have to wonder why he didn't have similar judgment for those who booed Hillary? That's telling. In fact, he's shown he's rather fond of it when it's is own supporters behaving similarly. His comment about the supporters who booed at a Hillary supporting child for example? Something to the effect of Dems should learn to harness that enthusiasm! Booing a child is enthusiasm! Not intellectual weakness in that case. Why is that? Why disdain for Ann Coulter booers?
QC
(26,371 posts)Have a thousand people holding hands outside singing "I Shall Not be Moved." Raise funds for local charities outside her hate rally.
There are many alternatives to playing Coulter up as a free speech martyr.
And for heaven's sake, let go of the primary. It ended about ten months ago and we have far bigger problems now.
kcr
(15,315 posts)First off, why invite the beast in to create the problem in the first place and subject a significant portion of the student population to the damage of the hate? And then think simply slapping on a bandaid with teach-ins is going to fix it? Here's a better, simpler idea. How about not letting in the hate-mongers in the first place? Then you don't have a problem to fix. There! Much easier.
QC
(26,371 posts)that university administrators were going after lefties like Howard Zinn and Noam Chomsky. We have far more to lose in a conflict over free speech than do those who carry water for the right wing establishment.
And no, teach-ins aren't a band aid. Knowledge still has some power.
Cha
(297,029 posts)Your Strawman is NOT WORKING.
QC
(26,371 posts)Mahalo!
beam me up scottie
(57,349 posts)Ms. Toad
(34,055 posts)When a public institution permits outside speakers, it cannot discriminate based on viewpoint.
She is highly inappropriate. You won't get an argument from me on that. BUT disagreeing with her viewpoint is not a constitutionally permissible reason to prohibit her from speaking at a state institution.
moriah
(8,311 posts)... any of the public universities in Arkansas, I've probably got to hope that universities can invite politically disagreeable people in this region of the country without having threats of violence shut down an appearance -- and that people would criticize the people threatening violence. Ann would get an invite easily here.
To me it's a matter of avoiding hypocrisy, or as Bernie put it, "sign(s) of intellectual weakness". Now, I'm going to say right here that Coulter's target demographic eats everything she says like it's the Gospel, but if having her speak is so threatening to an actual thinking person's ability to refute her verbal excrement with sources and logic.... it IS a sign of intellectual weakness. In fact, that was a very subtle barb to people who actually buy Ann's crap, when thought of that way. They're the ones intellectually weak.
ehrnst
(32,640 posts)Ms. Toad
(34,055 posts)She didn't just demand to speak.
The University (as a state actor) is not permitted to make decisions about who their constituent groups invite in as speakers based on the viewpoint of the speaker.
It's not about her (or anyone else's right to walk onto campus and make a speech). But once the campus opens itself up (as it does when it permits student and other groups to invite speakers), it must make the decisions as to whether the speaker is permitted to come to campus without reference to the viewpoint she is expressing. (And using the possiblity that her presence will provoke an unwanted response is legally just as bad as directly repressing it for the content.
ehrnst
(32,640 posts)QC
(26,371 posts)onecaliberal
(32,811 posts)kcr
(15,315 posts)Cha
(297,029 posts)Cha
(297,029 posts)Starry Messenger
(32,342 posts)trueblue2007
(17,202 posts)does he want blood in the streets?
Bad judgement. let her speak someplace else
JustABozoOnThisBus
(23,336 posts)Berkeley Liberals are free to attend, ignore it, or demonstrate.
The Berkeley Liberals are not likely to cause violence. That will be the Berkeley Anarchists and right-wing hooligans.
beam me up scottie
(57,349 posts)riderinthestorm
(23,272 posts)Snackshack
(2,541 posts)Bernie defends the right to free speech...
Horrible!
redwitch
(14,943 posts)Softail1
(56 posts)my god...what is wrong with some people...the thought that we should eliminate someone's free speech because we don't like what's being said is despicable to me. College kids need to get a spine and deal with differing views...as despicable as Coulter is, last I checked she is a citizen who has a right to speak her at a public college, just like any other political activist does there....wow...hope the far left stops this violent direction they seem to be heading in..liberalism is better than this. And yes, I agree with whoever said Bernie is not defending her..he's defending free speech...
Tarheel_Dem
(31,228 posts)Warpy
(111,222 posts)and it's hard to find speech more odious than Coulter's.
The agreement is that the government can't silence her the same way it can't silence us when her gang is in power, the way they are right now. One thing to remember about her right to speak is that it doesn't include forcing us to listen. It just means the government can't step in to silence her.
That doesn't mean you can cause panics or incite riots. That is not protected speech.
However, political speech is protected speech.
ehrnst
(32,640 posts)And really thinks that Berkeley isn't intellectual enough.
Warpy
(111,222 posts)This is a free speech issue, nothing more and certainly nothing less.
ehrnst
(32,640 posts)Warpy
(111,222 posts)One trolling post after another! A twofer!
Oh, forget it.
Buh-bye.
beam me up scottie
(57,349 posts)ehrnst
(32,640 posts)beam me up scottie
(57,349 posts)lovemydogs
(575 posts)He also said she was outrageous but, he is defending the right to free speech.
I really feel this whole anger and rage thing is not even about what people are saying it is, like pro v anti choice democrats.
If it was really an issue then many would have slammed and wanted Sen. Bob Casey drummed out of the party.
I think this is mostly over unresolved issues from the Primary.
I think many still are angry that Bernie ran against and had success in running against Hillary.
Why that was a problem, I don't know.
Everyone is entitled to run for President and if a person's message catches on, so what?
Why is it something to hold against anyone and to hate that person for?
There is no rule saying no one can run against Hillary.
People really need to think and come to terms with their anger and why running for president was such an awful thing when it is the right of someone to do so.
ehrnst
(32,640 posts)That's an important distinction to be made...
The Velveteen Ocelot
(115,656 posts)by an authorized student group and the university shuts down the speech because they don't like the speaker or the contents of the speech, the university, in its capacity as an instrumentality of the government (which is what public universities are), has then arguably violated the First Amendment. It's true that people can't just march onto a campus and "demand a speaking gig," but if they've been invited to speak and the university steps in and says they can't, there's a problem. And there's the distinction in this case.
ehrnst
(32,640 posts)William769
(55,144 posts)Response to SecularMotion (Original post)
ehrnst This message was self-deleted by its author.
ehrnst
(32,640 posts)MyNameGoesHere
(7,638 posts)First login and I got jumped for service. I democratically voted for a bad faith reporting and leaving this gem of an article and great post standing. Russians don't sway me away from my party.
Raster
(20,998 posts)...how's that anti-Sanders agenda workin' for ya?
Soxfan58
(3,479 posts)If you want to make a republican sound like a idiot, you just hand them a microphone. Let her speak the more vile she spewed, the more vile she seems.
Response to Soxfan58 (Reply #220)
CajunBlazer This message was self-deleted by its author.
CajunBlazer
(5,648 posts)I agree with the statement originally accredited to Voltaire: I may not agree with what you say, but I will defend to the death your right to say it.
(Voltaire's actual statement in a letter was, I detest what you write, but I would give my life to make it possible for you to continue to write.)
Aren't we supposed to liberal who defend the 1st Amendment. Apparently when we drift too far to the left we begin to resemble our counterparts on the right fringe and try to silence anyone who disagrees with us.
Beartracks
(12,806 posts)There, I fixed the OP's title.
Gosh, you'd think "news drops" like this would cause DUers to start squabbling amongst themselves, taking their eye off the real problems of the country...
Oh.
By the way, you'd think the description "every millennials favorite old man" would've given the poster pause.
==========================
beam me up scottie
(57,349 posts)Dorian Gray
(13,488 posts)and I think that those who don't regarding free speech are dangerous.
X_Digger
(18,585 posts)Anything in furtherance of the goal, eh?
Raster
(20,998 posts)...classic hit and run.
Egnever
(21,506 posts)When you have to twist comments to make them say what you want you are as bad as the fake news hucksters that got Cheeto elected.
stevenleser
(32,886 posts)or at least that was the desire.
Professors could have and express virtually any viewpoint, speakers of all stripes could be invited to speak, even racists and bigots.
I remember the brouhaha when Ahmedinejad was invited to speak here. http://www.cnn.com/2007/US/09/24/us.iran/
The issue is complex because the idea of campus free speech isnt a simple one and not universally supported anymore. We have had protests and cancellations of many speakers recently.
When a racist or other figure with ugly views is invited to speak on campus, IMO the university has a number of responsibilities that need to be met. Some senior figure from the University should speak before and after the speech and offer a counterviewpoint and conduct discussions on what the speaker said.
The purpose of campus free speech is to promote learning, not endorse the ugly views.
I am generally in favor of campus free speech when conducted the right way.