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Sat Apr 22, 2017, 08:36 PM

Russian trolls' goal: Make internet sites unusable by flooding with unnecessary debate and spam

https://www.buzzfeed.com/iexplorer/the-weird-and-shockingly-lucrative-world-of-people-who-are-p

From Buzzfeed, now several years ago:

But (Russian trolling) might not need to work. Chen thinks the whole practice is less about actually convincing users to vote for Putin and more about muddying the waters and making the internet harder to navigate and trust.
“The opposition in Russia grew up on the internet and by making it dirty and unusable, it will silence those guys,” Chen said.


Edit: Wait, I found the article I was thinking of - from the New Yorker. It says it slightly better.


The real effect, the Russian activists told me, was not to brainwash readers but to overwhelm social media with a flood of fake content, seeding doubt and paranoia, and destroying the possibility of using the Internet as a democratic space.



Think about this when you like or comment repeatedly on Bernie debate posts we've been flooded with lately. Bernie is one guy, with one set of views (his Senate Democratic Outreach chair is limited to a Senate role and it's not a big deal). Let's focus on Bernie's ideas on economics and focus on others who are promoting women's rights issues. Together we can produce a Democratic party that does both those things.


81 replies, 7175 views

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Reply Russian trolls' goal: Make internet sites unusable by flooding with unnecessary debate and spam (Original post)
sharedvalues Apr 2017 OP
sfwriter Apr 2017 #1
L. Coyote Apr 2017 #81
FreepFryer Apr 2017 #2
Sculpin Beauregard Apr 2017 #3
The Velveteen Ocelot Apr 2017 #4
sharedvalues Apr 2017 #5
sharedvalues Apr 2017 #7
onecaliberal Apr 2017 #10
SCantiGOP Apr 2017 #25
Qutzupalotl Apr 2017 #26
KittyWampus Apr 2017 #39
dalton99a Apr 2017 #6
MountCleaners Apr 2017 #75
sharedvalues Apr 2017 #80
athena Apr 2017 #8
panader0 Apr 2017 #11
athena Apr 2017 #12
panader0 Apr 2017 #20
athena Apr 2017 #23
panader0 Apr 2017 #32
athena Apr 2017 #42
Steven Maurer Apr 2017 #63
sheshe2 Apr 2017 #29
panader0 Apr 2017 #34
sheshe2 Apr 2017 #38
panader0 Apr 2017 #45
athena Apr 2017 #47
sheshe2 Apr 2017 #49
athena Apr 2017 #52
6000eliot Apr 2017 #13
panader0 Apr 2017 #16
athena Apr 2017 #30
panader0 Apr 2017 #37
sheshe2 Apr 2017 #41
panader0 Apr 2017 #53
sheshe2 Apr 2017 #62
sharedvalues Apr 2017 #67
athena Apr 2017 #46
BainsBane Apr 2017 #61
sheshe2 Apr 2017 #35
panader0 Apr 2017 #43
athena Apr 2017 #50
panader0 Apr 2017 #54
6000eliot Apr 2017 #59
The Velveteen Ocelot Apr 2017 #14
athena Apr 2017 #15
The Velveteen Ocelot Apr 2017 #19
athena Apr 2017 #21
C Moon Apr 2017 #33
Post removed Apr 2017 #40
athena Apr 2017 #44
betsuni Apr 2017 #51
JustAnotherGen Apr 2017 #56
onecaliberal Apr 2017 #9
JoeOtterbein Apr 2017 #17
kimbutgar Apr 2017 #18
David__77 Apr 2017 #22
PatrickforO Apr 2017 #28
kimbutgar Apr 2017 #57
sharedvalues Apr 2017 #68
PatrickforO Apr 2017 #24
KittyWampus Apr 2017 #27
pangaia Apr 2017 #31
Initech Apr 2017 #36
cbreezen Apr 2017 #77
sharedvalues Apr 2017 #78
Bernardo de La Paz Apr 2017 #48
hay rick Apr 2017 #55
elias7 Apr 2017 #58
betsuni Apr 2017 #60
sharedvalues Apr 2017 #69
lapucelle Apr 2017 #64
sharedvalues Apr 2017 #70
lapucelle Apr 2017 #74
BainsBane Apr 2017 #65
sharedvalues Apr 2017 #66
LakeArenal Apr 2017 #71
Edina Apr 2017 #72
msongs Apr 2017 #73
Cary Apr 2017 #76
JTFrog Apr 2017 #79

Response to sharedvalues (Original post)

Sat Apr 22, 2017, 08:37 PM

1. Yes... This.

 

And when we enter swinging to fight our corner, we empower them.

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Response to sfwriter (Reply #1)

Sun Apr 23, 2017, 01:22 PM

81. Likewise Republican trolls trying to make liberal fora unappealing.

The right wing seems to know no national boundaries these days, and yet they appeal to the worst nationalists. Go figure!

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Response to sharedvalues (Original post)

Sat Apr 22, 2017, 08:38 PM

2. +1. Thanks for this post. (n/t)

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Response to sharedvalues (Original post)

Sat Apr 22, 2017, 08:39 PM

3. Yup. Stop abetting the chaos. It plays right

into their hands.

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Response to sharedvalues (Original post)

Sat Apr 22, 2017, 08:41 PM

4. Which is why I've been ignoring all of those posts,

which have been popping up like toadstools all of a sudden. Whether they come from Russian trolls or just obsessive DUers who have to beat their dead horses, they are really cluttering up the place. I've started hiding the "But... Bernie!!" posts.

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Response to The Velveteen Ocelot (Reply #4)

Sat Apr 22, 2017, 08:44 PM

5. It could also be that outside groups are targeting the DU posters

We know that Russian trolls will use targeted social media actions to influence people.

If they have a list of prominent DUers who do and don't like Bernie, they could be tweeting at them or sending them content on facebook to get them to post here.

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Response to sharedvalues (Reply #5)

Sat Apr 22, 2017, 08:47 PM

7. How can we get the divisive posts to stop?

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Response to sharedvalues (Reply #7)

Sat Apr 22, 2017, 08:50 PM

10. Don't feed trolls. Don't comment, don't engage. Ignore. If enough of us do that

It will have much less impact.

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Response to onecaliberal (Reply #10)

Sat Apr 22, 2017, 09:12 PM

25. Done that

I had two people on Ignore a month ago now a couple of dozen.
I've probably trashed more threads in the last two months than the previous 15 years.
Good to see people agreeing on this.

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Response to onecaliberal (Reply #10)

Sat Apr 22, 2017, 09:13 PM

26. That's it exactly. Thank you.

But I have just one more thing to say about Bernie vs. Hillary....

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Response to sharedvalues (Reply #7)

Sat Apr 22, 2017, 09:21 PM

39. Your OP is divisive. You suggest anyone discussing Sanders' rhetoric is a Russian troll

 

This thread should be locked

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Response to sharedvalues (Original post)

Sat Apr 22, 2017, 08:46 PM

6. What Putin wants for the West is chaos and paralysis.

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Response to dalton99a (Reply #6)

Sun Apr 23, 2017, 09:21 AM

75. If Russians were trolling the left...

They would be working both sides of the BS / HRC divide. I've long suspected that. I've suspected that some of the "Berniebros" are fascist trolls who oppose progressive activists and who oppose the fact that BS is reaching working-class whites. I suspect it because I've argued with them online and their posting style is very similar to the far-right chan people I've encountered. I've also suspected that the attacks on HRC are by racist sexist homophobes.

What the Russians want is for the U.S. to be more like Russia - repressive, unequal, undemocratic, and grossly favorable to the rich. They're going to oppose both candidates.

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Response to MountCleaners (Reply #75)

Sun Apr 23, 2017, 01:19 PM

80. They are trolling the left. Taibbi, Greenwald. Plus Sen Warner confirmed.

Warner confirmed that Russia was trying to divide Democrats on Bernie/HRC.

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Response to sharedvalues (Original post)

Sat Apr 22, 2017, 08:48 PM

8. If you look at those threads,

you will see that one side is made up mostly of low-count, recently registered posters, and that the other side is made up mostly of long-time DUers who registered over a decade ago.

When the other side attacks, some of us feel we need to defend ourselves. I don't see a simple solution, unless Skinner decides to ban threads he considers disruptive.

This whole thing could be cooled down significantly if a widely-admired politician could bring himself to stop attacking the Democratic Party and demanding that Democrats throw women and minorities under the bus in an attempt to gain the votes of Trump-loving anti-choicers. I'm sorry, but that sort of thing just rubs some of us the wrong way.

ETA: I see that at least one thread was started by someone who joined this year. I've put that person on ignore.

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Response to athena (Reply #8)

Sat Apr 22, 2017, 08:53 PM

11. I get that if a widely admired politician demanded that Democrats

throw women under the bus--that would be bad. Please show me a quote of that
demand. Otherwise, that's just unneeded hyperbole.

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Response to panader0 (Reply #11)

Sat Apr 22, 2017, 08:56 PM

12. Here it is:

http://www.npr.org/2017/04/20/524962482/sanders-defends-campaigning-for-anti-abortion-rights-democrat

Read the whole thing. It provides a very good summary of the situation.

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Response to athena (Reply #12)

Sat Apr 22, 2017, 09:04 PM

20. Isn't Mello's position that he personally opposes abortion,

but supports the laws defending it? Is that different from Biden?
From many other Democrats?

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Response to panader0 (Reply #20)

Sat Apr 22, 2017, 09:11 PM

23. Read the article.

Sanders pushed back against the criticism. "The truth is that in some conservative states there will be candidates that are popular candidates who may not agree with me on every issue. I understand it. That's what politics is about," Sanders told NPR.

"If we are going to protect a woman's right to choose, at the end of the day we're going to need Democratic control over the House and the Senate, and state governments all over this nation," he said. "And we have got to appreciate where people come from, and do our best to fight for the pro-choice agenda. But I think you just can't exclude people who disagree with us on one issue."

But that call for pragmatism doesn't mesh with the main message Sanders has been delivering this week: a call for a more aggressive and progressive Democratic party. In the same interview, he blamed Republican gains at the state and federal level on "the failure of the Democratic Party to have a progressive agenda, to bring people into this party, to mobilize people."


(Emphases mine.)

We are being asked to redefine the word "progressive" as standing up for the economic empowerment of the working class while accepting the assumed anti-woman views of that class. It's disturbing that rejecting such a repositioning of the Democratic Party is considered trolling.

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Response to athena (Reply #23)

Sat Apr 22, 2017, 09:16 PM

32. "at the end of the day we're going to need Democratic control over the House and the Senate"

Why didn't you highlight that part?

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Response to panader0 (Reply #32)

Sat Apr 22, 2017, 09:22 PM

42. Why is that not also an argument when the topic is economic equality?

Why is the working class not being thrown under the bus the way women are? Why is a Democrat who accepts money from banks is not acceptable but a Democrat who thinks women should not have the right to determine what happens to their bodies is? Do you really not see the problem with campaigning for the latter but refusing to campaign for the former?

http://thehill.com/homenews/campaign/329927-sanders-endorses-ossoff-but-wont-call-him-a-progressive

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Response to athena (Reply #42)

Sat Apr 22, 2017, 10:06 PM

63. Although I agree these are good questions...

Never forget that Senator Sanders did come around and endorse Hillary Clinton in the general election. So at least for him, that pragmatic streak does run both ways - at least when Democrats are up against Republicans. He himself isn't insisting on 110% ideological purity.

I do agree that Senator Sanders does, in the primary, push the idea that his views are the only moral ones, and that excessive bashing of Democrats on his campaign's part can harm the winner in the fall. I am especially disappointed in the whole DNC conspiracy theory that somehow a handful of snarky emails sent in private by DNC staffers fed up with attacks on them, were why he didn't resonate with the 3 million Democratic primary voters he lost by.

But at the end of the day, it's really not him, or even the significant majority of Sanders supporters who are the problem, but rather the "Jackpine Radical" Green-Teabagger types, who seem to be angrier at Democrats than they are Republicans. But Sanders should be lauded for his tent-broadening, not bashed, I feel. Not attacked.

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Response to panader0 (Reply #20)

Sat Apr 22, 2017, 09:15 PM

29. Not even close.

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Response to sheshe2 (Reply #29)

Sat Apr 22, 2017, 09:18 PM

34. Tim Kaine?

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Response to panader0 (Reply #34)

Sat Apr 22, 2017, 09:20 PM

38. Not even close to Mello.

I really suggest you do some research.

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Response to panader0 (Reply #45)

Sat Apr 22, 2017, 09:35 PM

47. I guess you don't even read the articles you post yourself.

Kaine, who practices Catholicism, still personally opposes abortion. But news of Clinton’s freshly minted running mate didn’t outrage abortion rights groups. That's because Kaine has voted to defend access to the procedure since becoming a Virginia senator in 2012.

Ilyse Hogue, president of NARAL Pro-Choice America, noted his dramatic behavior shift. "While Senator Kaine has been open about his personal reservations about abortion, he’s maintained a 100% pro-choice voting record in the U.S. Senate,” she said in a statement. “He voted against dangerous abortion bans, he has fought against efforts to defund Planned Parenthood, and he voted to strengthen clinic security by establishing a federal fund for it.”

Planned Parenthood President Cecile Richards also praised Kaine on Friday during an MSNBC appearance, asserting, “He’s been not only a solid vote but really an ally."


The previous article you failed to read reveals quite a contrast between Tim Kaine and Mello:

... Ilyse Hogue, the president of abortion rights advocate NARAL Pro-Choice America, issued a statement blasting Sanders and Perez for spending time and resources campaigning alongside a Democrat who opposes abortion rights.

"The actions today by the DNC to embrace and support a candidate for office who will strip women – one of the most critical constituencies for the party – of our basic rights and freedom is not only disappointing, it is politically stupid," Hogue said. "Today's action makes this so-called 'fight back tour' look more like a throw-back tour for women and our rights."


(Emphases mine)

Are you saying the president of NARAL Pro-Choice America is confused? Or simply that you just don't like to read?

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Response to panader0 (Reply #45)

Sat Apr 22, 2017, 09:37 PM

49. Well I will take Huff over the Post....May as well be reading the Boston Herald.

Tim Kaine Schooled Mike Pence On Abortion

“We should let women make their own decisions.”


WASHINGTON ― Donald Trump’s running mate, Indiana Gov. Mike Pence (R), has led the GOP’s war on abortion rights and Planned Parenthood throughout his career. But it was Virginia Sen. Tim Kaine (D) who shined on the issue in the vice presidential debate Tuesday night, making a strong case for women’s moral autonomy.


“We can encourage people to support life, of course we can,” said Kaine, a practicing Catholic. “But why doesn’t Donald Trump trust women to make this choice for themselves? That’s what we ought to be doing in public life: living our lives of faith or motivation with enthusiasm and excitement, convincing each other, dialoguing with each other about important moral issues of the day. But on fundamental issues of morality, we should let women make their own decisions.”


While Kaine has personally struggled with the issue of abortion in the past because of his faith, he and Democratic presidential nominee Hillary Clinton both strongly support the Supreme Court’s 1973 decision in Roe v. Wade, which protects a woman’s right to seek abortion up until the time the fetus would be viable outside the womb. Kaine attacked Trump on Tuesday night for saying women should face “some form of punishment” for having an abortion.


“We support the constitutional right of American women to consult their own conscience and make their own decision about pregnancy. That is something we trust American women to do,” Kaine said. “And we don’t think that women should be punished, as Donald Trump thinks they should, for making the decision to have an abortion.”

MORE! http://www.huffingtonpost.com/entry/tim-kaine-mike-pence-abortion_us_57f467eee4b0325452624fae

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Response to sheshe2 (Reply #49)

Sat Apr 22, 2017, 09:41 PM

52. See my post #47 above. The poster didn't bother to read the article they posted.

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Response to panader0 (Reply #11)

Sat Apr 22, 2017, 08:56 PM

13. Didn't somebody endorse an anti-choice candidate and not endorse a pro-choice one?

If that's not throwing women under the bus, I don't know what is.

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Response to 6000eliot (Reply #13)

Sat Apr 22, 2017, 09:00 PM

16. You mean the DNC?

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Response to panader0 (Reply #16)

Sat Apr 22, 2017, 09:15 PM

30. Once again, please read the article.

The DNC is doing its best to distance itself from the Mello endorsement. Party staffers were quick to tell reporters that it was Sanders', and not the DNC's, idea to hold a rally for Mello.

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Response to athena (Reply #30)

Sat Apr 22, 2017, 09:20 PM

37. Perez heads the DNC--I don't see a mention of him.

More divisiveness. Pure and simple.

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Response to panader0 (Reply #37)

Sat Apr 22, 2017, 09:22 PM

41. Post 35 nt

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Response to sheshe2 (Reply #41)

Sat Apr 22, 2017, 09:41 PM

53. sheshe2--I support choice--I always have.


I just don't like one guy singled out to be the villain in this. The Dnc wants Dems
elected. Yeah, we've got some bums in the party. Manchin comes to mind.
But this obsession over one guy is getting divisive, something we cannot afford.
Mello may very well be a jerk. Who is the best jerk in the race?
I'm sure one member of this "Unity Tour" didn't decide the agenda.

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Response to panader0 (Reply #53)

Sat Apr 22, 2017, 10:03 PM

62. Why waste time for an anti women candidate that is running for MAYOR.

We need the Senate and House. That is our priority, or should be.

First, I don't see him being singled out. I see no other candidate at this time that is sponsoring anti women legislation. As a woman that bothers me.

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Response to panader0 (Reply #53)

Sat Apr 22, 2017, 10:45 PM

67. Thanks, well put. It's the obsession over one guy that's getting divisive.

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Response to panader0 (Reply #37)

Sat Apr 22, 2017, 09:30 PM

46. Again, read the article.

The very paragraph after the one I quoted reads:
Perez issued a statement emphasizing the DNC's strong support for abortion rights, but staying away from the central question of whether or not Mello should be the beneficiary of a DNC rally. "The Democratic Party's platform states clearly our support for every woman's right to make their own choices about their reproductive health and to have access to safe abortion services," Perez said in the statement. "As DNC Chair, I stand by that position unequivocally, as I have my entire life."


"I don't see a mention of him" is a lie. It is clear you didn't read the article.

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Response to panader0 (Reply #16)

Sat Apr 22, 2017, 09:19 PM

35. Here

Democratic Party Draws A Line In The Sand On Abortion Rights

DNC chair Tom Perez said all Democratic candidates must support a woman’s right to choose.
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/entry/democrats-tom-perez-abortion-rights_us_58fa5fade4b018a9ce5b351d

Perhaps you should check out google.

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Response to sheshe2 (Reply #35)

Sat Apr 22, 2017, 09:23 PM

43. Mello said he would uphold the law.

That may not be a ringing endorsement of choice, but many other prominent
Dems feel the same way. Like Kaine, HRC's choice for VP.

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Response to panader0 (Reply #43)

Sat Apr 22, 2017, 09:38 PM

50. So you think the President of NARAL Pro-Choice America is mistaken.

As posted above, she feels quite differently about the positions of Mello and Kaine.

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Response to athena (Reply #50)

Sat Apr 22, 2017, 09:44 PM

54. I'm merely pointing out that while some people may not support

abortion, for religious or whatever grounds, they may still be able to
enforce the laws.

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Response to panader0 (Reply #54)

Sat Apr 22, 2017, 09:59 PM

59. And I merely pointed out that this attitude amounts to throwing women under the bus.

Nothing anyone else has said here has changed my mind.

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Response to athena (Reply #8)

Sat Apr 22, 2017, 08:58 PM

14. Here we go again...

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Response to The Velveteen Ocelot (Reply #14)

Sat Apr 22, 2017, 08:59 PM

15. Yes, let's just pretend both sides are equally bad.

Where have I heard that before?

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Response to athena (Reply #15)

Sat Apr 22, 2017, 09:03 PM

19. Which "sides" are those?

Trump vs. Democrats or Bernie vs. Hillary (a/k/a Dead Horse)?

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Response to The Velveteen Ocelot (Reply #19)

Sat Apr 22, 2017, 09:07 PM

21. The pro-woman side and the anti-woman side.

This is sickening. If it were any other minority whose rights were being abandoned, people would be up in arms. But once again, since it's women who are being thrown under the bus, we are supposed to shut up and go away. Standing up for our rights is considered "trolling".

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Response to athena (Reply #8)

Sat Apr 22, 2017, 09:17 PM

33. Noticed that, as well.

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Response to athena (Reply #8)


Response to Post removed (Reply #40)

Sat Apr 22, 2017, 09:25 PM

44. Wow. I totally missed that. Thank you for pointing it out!

That was brilliant.

The OPer is going on my ignore list!

ETA: Three posts hidden in the last 90 days, too!

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Response to Post removed (Reply #40)

Sat Apr 22, 2017, 09:39 PM

51. Obnoxious and obvious.

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Response to Post removed (Reply #40)

Sat Apr 22, 2017, 09:45 PM

56. Point made well

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Response to sharedvalues (Original post)

Sat Apr 22, 2017, 08:48 PM

9. Yes, trash thread is getting quite the workout

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Response to sharedvalues (Original post)

Sat Apr 22, 2017, 09:01 PM

17. Yes! Thanks for this post!

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Response to sharedvalues (Original post)

Sat Apr 22, 2017, 09:03 PM

18. Isn't there a way to block traffic coming from Russia and eastern bloc nations?

I know there are assigned IP addresses that are particular to each country. Couldn't a developer block those ip addresses? Unless they can find a way to go around and mask their identity,google, Facebook etc should develop an algorithm to recognize they are paid provokers.

i admit I still feel like a simpleton making this comment.

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Response to kimbutgar (Reply #18)

Sat Apr 22, 2017, 09:07 PM

22. No, I don't think so. And what's the "eastern bloc?"

...

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Response to David__77 (Reply #22)

Sat Apr 22, 2017, 09:15 PM

28. Perhaps before your time. Back in the day when the Soviet Union

existed, the countries in its 'sphere of influence' were called 'the Eastern Bloc.'

This included Poland, what was once Yugoslavia, Czechoslovakia, Bulgaria, Romania, Hungary and East Germany.

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Response to PatrickforO (Reply #28)

Sat Apr 22, 2017, 09:46 PM

57. Thank you

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Response to kimbutgar (Reply #18)

Sat Apr 22, 2017, 10:48 PM

68. Several issues: (1) the few real trolls can use IPs in US (2) Russia/Trump can inflame real posters

(1) Even if people are posting here from Russia, they are likely using hacked computers in the US to route traffic through, so it looks like they have a US IP.

(2) If an entity that wants to poison DU has members' info, they could target those members here or elsewhere (facebook, twitter) with false info or propagandized reports to mislead them about what Bernie really said or what he's focusing on (without telling lies). Then those posters might come here and post a lot about it. Goal achieved.

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Response to sharedvalues (Original post)

Sat Apr 22, 2017, 09:12 PM

24. Hear, hear!

There's a bunch.

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Response to sharedvalues (Original post)

Sat Apr 22, 2017, 09:13 PM

27. Addressing Sanders' OWN words uttered recently isn't me or other DU'ers being trolls.

 

You have a lot of f*cking never posting this.

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Response to sharedvalues (Original post)

Sat Apr 22, 2017, 09:16 PM

31. Your last sentence That has been on my mind for a bit...



Actually the paragraph just before it, also.
Same thing they are doing to 'the West.'

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Response to sharedvalues (Original post)

Sat Apr 22, 2017, 09:19 PM

36. Is that where all the Taboola, Outbrain, and Revcontent shitbait come from?

Websites are so riddled with advertisement and shitbait that it's not even fun to read articles anymore. Even websites I used to use frequently now are so ransacked with this shit that any useful content is buried under this crap. On news sites nearly every other story is a sponsored one. No, I am not patronizing a company that "disrupts a billion dollar industry". No, I will not click on click bait. No, I do not want to read circulars or visit corporate sponsored ads. No, I do not want to see the unrelated video that plays after an ad. And if you have an ad blocker they make you disable it or pay. This has got to be a product of Putin.

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Response to Initech (Reply #36)

Sun Apr 23, 2017, 10:16 AM

77. When mentioning Taboola... Are you referring to DU or other sites?

Taboola and, most recently, videos that would disrupt my ability to even post, were all over DU for months prior to and after the election. Bought a star to get rid of both issues, but had to put up with them until I had enough money.

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Response to Initech (Reply #36)

Sun Apr 23, 2017, 01:06 PM

78. Right wing invests money into ads - Newsmax, into Taboola etc

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Response to sharedvalues (Original post)

Sat Apr 22, 2017, 09:37 PM

48. It seems that the trolls may be accomplishing their goals here with the Bernie pro/con threads. nt

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Response to Bernardo de La Paz (Reply #48)

Sat Apr 22, 2017, 09:45 PM

55. Agree.

The majority of the threads here serve to maintain division and derail informative and constructive discussion. Moderated Indivisible Facebook pages are a more constructive and useful resource than the current iteration of DU.

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Response to sharedvalues (Original post)

Sat Apr 22, 2017, 09:48 PM

58. Putin just can't handle his own irrelevance.

Living in the past and acting no better than a latter day terrorist

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Response to sharedvalues (Original post)

Sat Apr 22, 2017, 10:00 PM

60. "trumped-up Bernie debate posts" -- you're accusing DU members of trolling by quoting

verbatim and providing links (facts) discussing what a U.S. Senator now on a Unity Tour for the Democratic party is saying. Using facts to support an opinion isn't trolling. But everyone knows that.

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Response to betsuni (Reply #60)

Sat Apr 22, 2017, 10:49 PM

69. You're right, I edited the last para to make it more constructive.

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Response to sharedvalues (Original post)

Sat Apr 22, 2017, 10:07 PM

64. Projection is such an obvious tactic.

Thank you for your concerning concern, but Democrats at Democratic Underground discussing the importance of supporting a woman's right to choose are not trolls. They're Democrats, and Democrats have shared values that they are willing to define and defend.

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Response to lapucelle (Reply #64)

Sat Apr 22, 2017, 10:50 PM

70. Thanks, you're right that women's rights are key values (which I share).

I edited last para to make it more constructive.

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Response to sharedvalues (Reply #70)

Sun Apr 23, 2017, 09:07 AM

74. What does "outreach is limited to a senate role" mean?

What exactly is the "senate role" of the the Senate Democratic Conference Outreach Committee?

As the committee was conceived, Outreach meets with advocacy and political groups and reports to Steering. Steering prioritizes issues and reports to the Senate Democratic Caucus. That's the way it worked when it was one committee.

If Sanders wants to make personal political appearances outside of his Democratic leadership role, that's fine, but he needs to make the dividing line clearer and do it on his on dime if his message runs counter to Democratic party principles.

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Response to sharedvalues (Original post)

Sat Apr 22, 2017, 10:17 PM

65. It's declaring the concerns for the equal rights of half the population unnecessary

that is the problem.

The concern for reproductive rights hasn't been limited to your field of vision on a website. It's been happening at the DNC. Women have made it clear they will not tolerate the bullshit, and Tom Perez has come to Jesus on the issue. http://www.huffingtonpost.com/entry/democrats-tom-perez-abortion-rights_us_58fa5fade4b018a9ce5b351d?ncid=engmodushpmg00000004

By all means, you tell women who comprised the great majority of Democratic voters that their concerns are "unnecessary." Make clear what is really "necessary" is that Bernie never be criticized because his career and celebrity matter more. All that demonstrates is that the rhetoric about economic justice is hollow because enabling anti-choice policies only ensures greater poverty for women. Anyone with any knowledge of the subject knows that, and there is absolutely no excuse for someone who has sat through three decades of testimony in congress not to grasp that basic point.

I and many other women will not unify around those who see my rights and my life as unnecessary. The Democratic Party belongs to US. We are the majority of its voters, and we will not tolerate reactionary efforts to undermine our rights under the guise of progressivism.

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Response to BainsBane (Reply #65)

Sat Apr 22, 2017, 10:42 PM

66. You're right - women's rights are key values for Democrats

(I edited my post to explain a bit)

Women's rights to good healthcare, to choose to carry a baby, to birth control, to great maternity leave and childcare are issues that I and many Democrats consider among the most important issues of the party.
I'm not saying that Bernie's positions on these have been great, I'm saying we don't need to focus on them. Bernie is doing his thing on economic populism, others are doing their thing on the issues they care about.

Ultimately, Trump and the GOP are the problem. We need to unify to resist them and take back America.

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Response to sharedvalues (Original post)

Sat Apr 22, 2017, 11:04 PM

71. OMG post against trolls and the debate begins again.....

I thought we were supposed to ignore.. Don't succumb to the bait. It's those low number posters. It's sanders. It's ... It's...It's....

Stop. Stop. Agree to disagree, put people on ignore, take a day off. Whatever it takes to stop yourself from this continuous loop of fruitless argument.

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Response to sharedvalues (Original post)

Sat Apr 22, 2017, 11:36 PM

72. Have noticed this

Yes, I have noticed this lately. I am mostly a reader here at DU but I post on another Liberal site and it has been a bit crazy there with the antagonistic comments. I feel like we are being manipulated and it is so obvious yet some just fall right back into primary mode and rip each other up. I have also noticed that now that some seriously damaging info. is coming out about the Republicans we are seeing a new wave of Hillary hate--books and articles that are simply destroying her. If she makes a speech the comments sections in on-line articles turn red with hate and I wonder how much is manufactured and how much is fringe.

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Response to sharedvalues (Original post)

Sun Apr 23, 2017, 12:13 AM

73. everyone who disagrees with any OP is a troll. maybe DU is all trolls :-) nt

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Response to sharedvalues (Original post)

Sun Apr 23, 2017, 09:29 AM

76. Exactly why I say Vote Democratic

It's simple. It's to the point. It's unassailable.

We are fighting against evil.

Vote Democratic!

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Response to sharedvalues (Original post)

Sun Apr 23, 2017, 01:16 PM

79. Bernie has been the Russian trolls favorite tool of division lately,

 

no reason to think they are going to stop now.

There are several baited threads at the moment egging folks on to get their posts hidden.

I agree with the poster who recently said we should just ignore them.

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