General Discussion
Related: Editorials & Other Articles, Issue Forums, Alliance Forums, Region ForumsBernie demands that Democrats accept 100% of his platform? WTF?
I am beginning to really dislike Bernie a lot more than just find him to be an agitator. I have worked too hard for too long to see our party destroyed by someone who continues to use us as a platform for our own destruction.
pnwmom
(108,914 posts)R B Garr
(16,914 posts)Maybe that's what this is about. She basically was asking about his demands.
lewebley3
(3,412 posts)Vinnie From Indy
(10,820 posts)I hope all DU'ers note that the OP did not offer a source. The only thing the OP did was make an allegation.
I personally think the OP is full of shit!
lewebley3
(3,412 posts)Sanders makes me sick when I see him, he was just like Nader,
Sanders has put this country in danger, and if Nader had
not done what he did we wouldn't have had Iraqi war.
Both men think put ideology above country: People elderly
are now under attack from the GOP because of Sanders and
Jill Steins work.
Vinnie From Indy
(10,820 posts)In fact, the OP abandoned this thread after posting it.
All Du'ers should demand proof/source for such allegations. I believe all of us are served better by the truth rather than fiction.
Flaleftist
(3,473 posts)Another thread to the trash.
Iggo
(47,470 posts)demmiblue
(36,712 posts)It's never enough until your heart stops beating.
R B Garr
(16,914 posts)in on "it", too?
druidity33
(6,428 posts)demmiblue
(36,712 posts)Snotcicles
(9,089 posts)Chevy
(1,063 posts)Do you know what RT is? Or is this an inconvenience?
Snotcicles
(9,089 posts)pnwmom
(108,914 posts)a self-proclaimed libertarian. Not an ally.
Chevy
(1,063 posts)elleng
(129,778 posts)I'll be polite:
DK504
(3,847 posts)I do love Bernie, but it is time Democrats join together and knock the snot out of the park.
panader0
(25,816 posts)Lil Missy
(17,865 posts)He's not a Democrat and should start his own Party.
panader0
(25,816 posts)Right now Progressives are a huge part of the party. Witness the primaries.
You really want to throw out nearly half of the party?
Lil Missy
(17,865 posts)panader0
(25,816 posts)athena
(4,187 posts)2% is a huge percentage of so-called Progressives who couldn't be bothered to keep a racist and misogynistic malignant narcissist from the most important office in the land.
cstanleytech
(26,026 posts)Hillary won the popular vote in a landslide Trump only got in because the EC failed this entire country in doing their job which is to keep a complete fucking idiot out of office but had they done their job the words President and Trump would not be joined together now like an episode of the Simpsons with Trump
athena
(4,187 posts)Good idea, there.
If those 2% of Bernie supporters could have brought themselves to vote for Hillary, we wouldn't be in the mess we are in, regardless of the EC, Comey, or the Russians.
But keep trying to blame others.
cstanleytech
(26,026 posts)the election rather it was the EC and their failure to do their job for whatever reason be it because they were required by state law to vote for x candidate or because they decided to be assholes and vote for Trump anyway.
LAS14
(13,741 posts)Chevy
(1,063 posts)cstanleytech
(26,026 posts)getting into office unfortunately alot of them have lost sight of that fact and voted party over voting for the best candidate and others had to vote for Trump as some of the states mandate that they have to cast their vote for whoever wins the state which imo defeats the whole purpose of the EC which is to keep someone like Trump out of office.
pnwmom
(108,914 posts)We need to support them in getting re-registered and getting ID's.
samnsara
(17,554 posts)Lil Missy
(17,865 posts)That's what real Democrats do. They vote for the nominee.
David__77
(23,170 posts)I do not find that inspiring of confidence.
Exilednight
(9,359 posts)If you say popular vote it will show your ignorance on how our election system works.
Lil Missy
(17,865 posts)Hint - you might also check out the comment I responded to.
Thanks for your understanding.
Exilednight
(9,359 posts)Lil Missy
(17,865 posts)Exilednight
(9,359 posts)JudyM
(29,105 posts)cally
(21,589 posts)I always believed he did not support women's rights, minority rights, and environmental protection as much as his other platforms. I did not trust him on those issues. When he said that Hillary was not qualified--that did it for me. I made up my mind to support Hillary at that time. You don't say that about the first woman candidate for President who was obviously qualified. You may not agree with her but she was qualified!!! It showed me that Bernie did not understand women's issues and did not retract his statement even when others said it was sexist.
Please do not perpetuate the idea that people like me are not progressive because we did not agree with the candidate you choose. I am not calling you not progressive even though I find those who do not put environmental justice, women's and minority justice first are wrong.
murielm99
(30,615 posts)I am a liberal. I will not let the far right or far left turn "liberal" into a dirty word. I wear the label proudly. Additionally, I think the leftists in our party use the word "progressive" as a purity test. Our party does not need purity tests.
Funny thing, I have always been considered pretty far to the left. As soon as I declined to support Bernie, even though I did not change any of my positions, I became establishment, elitist, corporate.
athena
(4,187 posts)And I agree with everything else you said. All of it is true of me as well.
fun n serious
(4,451 posts)No one ever accused me of being a centrist until this election. Friends, family, co-workers always considered me far left. I became a centrist somehow this election.
murielm99
(30,615 posts)and take the test. It will be very enlightening.
There are also great links and articles there. It is like taking a mini political science course.
Chevy
(1,063 posts)a cute term used by the phony left and far right to cover for the agenda of marginalizing of civil rights and womens issues.
safeinOhio
(32,461 posts)EW too.
Chevy
(1,063 posts)fights for all the causes that are being mentioned .
safeinOhio
(32,461 posts)Hekate
(89,974 posts)Honeycombe8
(37,648 posts)"Liberal," to me, is anything left of center. "Progressive," to me, means far left. Liberals that are more moderate are sometimes considered RINOs because their positions are close to moderate Republicans in one or more areas (not the same, but close).
This is similar to the alt-right (tea partiers) of the right. They are conservative, but farther right than the moderate Republicans.
Where Trump falls in the spectrum of any party is beyond me. He doesn't seem to have any ideology or center other than money and himself and his family.
murielm99
(30,615 posts)in this thread. I have taken the test there, and it shows me as pretty far left, as I have always considered myself to be.
Progressive is a word people have adopted to get away from using the word liberal, since it has been sullied by the right wing media and other haters. I refuse to let those people define me. I am a proud liberal.
Liberals and moderates are not the same thing. One is either or.
And the alt-right is just another term for racists, anti-semites and misogynists. They don't get to soften what they are.
Honeycombe8
(37,648 posts)"Moderate liberal" does not mean neither left nor right, to me. There's a spectrum that starts at the "center" line and goes left and goes right. To the left of center all the way to the far left line is liberal. To the right of center all the way to the far right line is conservative or Republican. Someone in the center, or a bit left or right, is a centrist.
Anything left of center, other than maybe a tiny bit, is liberal. Pro-choice, pro-environmental, etc., but the devil is in the details. One can be pro-choice but not have a problem with banning abortions under certain conditions, or with jumping through hoops to get one. Or maybe supports gay marriage, anti-gay discrimination, but be against allowing transgenders in the bathrooms for the gender they identify with. A progressive, OTOH, may fully support all those causes, with no exceptions or limitations.
It's a spectrum. A Democrat can be any of several things, but they are all liberal (to the left or liberal side of the center). No one would call me a progressive, I think (except tea partiers), but I am definitely liberal.
What you are saying seems to be that anyone who is not far left is not liberal. That's not true. Progressive does not equal liberal. Progressive is at the far left end of the liberal spectrum. Moderate liberals are at the right end of liberal spectrum; that is still liberal.
NastyRiffraff
(12,448 posts)The Republicans hijacked that perfectly honorable term and made it somehow a bad thing; now some of the so-called "progressives" are trying to do the same. I have no idea how or why it's supposed to be better (or more liberal!) to be a progressive. I am a liberal.
athena
(4,187 posts)It is disturbing that the definition of the word "progressive" has come to refer to a philosophy of throwing women and minorities under the bus in order to focus on the interests of working-class white males.
safeinOhio
(32,461 posts)Strong on rights and economic justice. Where do you stand on her?
athena
(4,187 posts)Can you point to an article where Elizabeth Warren has thrown women and minorities under the bus?
Or is this just an attempt to try to change the topic or confuse the issue?
safeinOhio
(32,461 posts)Warring sides on DU together to make a positive move. I do not know any BS supporters or Clinton supporters that would not have vote for her if she had rum against dumb shit. Makes me think she is the answer to all of this bull going on here.
Am I the only person on DU that can see the obvious. She is a champion for reproductive right, economic rights and a Democrat. I see her as our only current answer to the divide that that could destroy the party.
athena
(4,187 posts)The moment she announced her candidacy, she would be thrown under the bus by the very people who heaped hate on Hillary Clinton. The same goes for any woman who would display the gall to run for president in this super-macho country that believes that women's natural place is on the sidelines.
Please try to understand that many of us who are currently the most vocal supporters of Hillary are women who have faced the most disgusting forms of sexism and hate in the workplace for demanding to be treated as the equals of men. What HRC was subjected to was eerily familiar to us. We recognized what was going on. Sexism is never overt these days; it's always hidden behind reasoning that seems logical and fools those who are not intimately familiar with the tactics used.
You are never going to convince me that any woman would have been able to win where Hillary lost. She was a very strong candidate. Elizabeth Warren, with her soft voice and gentle, professorial demeanor, wouldn't have stood a chance. Claiming otherwise is a form of denial. Before we run a woman candidate again, we need to recognize and deal with the extent of misogyny in this country.
safeinOhio
(32,461 posts)if those BS supporters stayed home or voted for trump as claimed. A smart women that stay on point with a consistent message and without all that baggage, have at least as much chance as the half Irish man that won twice, would be a shoe in.
I'm still of the opinion that she can bring you two warring factions together and go on to be the next President.
This endless fight is not helping one bit. I'm trying to give you people a way out of all this bull shit and a way to victory.
But what does this old man know?
athena
(4,187 posts)By the way, if fighting is not helping, then Bernie can easily end it by stopping his attacks against the Democratic Party and his calls for the Party he will not join to accept anti-choicers into its ranks.
safeinOhio
(32,461 posts)both sides need to make changes.
athena
(4,187 posts)to stop Bernie from attacking them? Should Democrats also make changes to stop Republicans from attacking them?
Thanks, but no thanks.
safeinOhio
(32,461 posts)A divided party will stay divided on it.
fleabiscuit
(4,542 posts)all american girl
(1,788 posts)redstatebluegirl
(12,264 posts)msongs
(67,129 posts)panader0
(25,816 posts)What I say is THE ENEMY IS OVER THERE!
Let's not drive a wedge into our party. Please.
calguy
(5,184 posts)He drove a wedge thru our party by not graciously withdrawing when his loss was inevitable. Democrats graciously let him run in our party even though he was not a democrat. Some of the mean and desperate attacks on Hillary towards the end made me lose all respect for the Bernie I thought I knew.
fleabiscuit
(4,542 posts)still_one
(91,807 posts)George II
(67,782 posts)panader0
(25,816 posts)voted for Hillary and about 13.2 million voted for Bernie. I believe that almost
all of those Sanders supporters voted for Hillary in the general election, as did I.
Bernie is the leader of the progressives. He endorsed Hillary and asked his
supporters to do so.
George II
(67,782 posts)....of which were open primaries where republicans whose candidate was a foregone conclusion voted, could be considered "progressives".
On top of that, turnout for the primaries was only about 30%, so gauging the % of Democrats who are "progressives" based on primary votes is questionable.
NurseJackie
(42,862 posts)panader0
(25,816 posts)Vesper
(229 posts)ZX86
(1,428 posts)By definition your opinion is a minority one. Minority opinions don't win votes or elections.
kstewart33
(6,551 posts)He has the highest favorable ratings of any US senator but the poll is about favorability among each senator's constituents, not national favorability.
ZX86
(1,428 posts)He is the most popular across the board.
pnwmom
(108,914 posts)but that popularity doesn't make him the most popular politician in America. The only recent study on politicians' national popularity included only 3 Dems, 4 Rethugs, and Bernie -- not much competition.
ZX86
(1,428 posts)According to data from a Harvard-Harris survey provided exclusively to The Hill, Bernie Sanders is considered the country's most popular active politician.
https://www.aol.com/article/news/2017/04/19/survey-bernie-sanders-is-americas-most-popular-active-politici/22046273/
On the facts you are completely wrong.
pnwmom
(108,914 posts)and not rely on misleading summaries.
There were only 3 other active Democratic politicians included in that survey -- Elizabeth Warren, Chuck Shumer, and Nancy Pelosi. So all this poll could show was that Bernie was more popular than those three -- none of whom, of course, got all the media attention he's gotten this year.
http://harvardharrispoll.com/wp-content/uploads/2017/04/Harvard-CAPS-Harris-Poll-April-Wave-Topline-Favorability-04.18.2017.pdf
kstewart33
(6,551 posts)Certainly not wrong about the poll, and waiting for a poll surveying the popularity of Sanders and Obama. Or Sanders and Biden.
Wouldn't be close. Especially with Obama.
Sanders might win among those under 30, but Democrats, especially women who are aware of his less than progressive views on women's right to choose? Or minorities? Nah.
Or come to think of it, Elizabeth Warren. At least among folks who know about her.
JudyM
(29,105 posts)to any establishment. But this is good for Dems, not bad, because he is aligned with us... the weight he carries among voters is beyond the range our party Dems can carry.
[IMG][/IMG]
http://elections.huffingtonpost.com/pollster/bernie-sanders-favorable-rating
Demit
(11,238 posts)Do you think the goodwill he engenders from his followers will transfer to the Democrats?
JudyM
(29,105 posts)stop or it risks alienating them, however. They are not about Bernie, per se (as much as some on DU falsely mock him for), they are passionate about the values he espouses and his courage in speaking truth to power, as clichéd as that expression can sound. I have been very deep in this part of the party, I'll acknowledge, having worked with his supporters all over the country. A few voted for tRump on the misguided belief that his Bernie-lite populism was genuine, but that was very, very few.
Based on their engaging him at a higher level, our party leadership obviously sees that we need to expand our platform and, hopefully, change our alliances/dependencies, in order to better align with what this large voting bloc finds most important. And the vast majority of that voting bloc (as heterogeneous as it is, not a uniform bloc) will vote Dem without a doubt if we shift in that direction.
The values-shift wouldn't be anti-Dem, in fact it'd go back to more traditional Dem values. At the heart of it, though, is a view that, to correspond with doing what is in the best interest of people and planet, the party needs to focus far less energy and revenue on what the big dollar donors/industries want, and far more on real social and eco improvement. If that change is made, the crowds will follow, because no way in hell will the rethugs meet us there.
ZX86
(1,428 posts)It's not funny.
still_one
(91,807 posts)Even with what Comey did, if those JPR like idiots had voted for Hillary we wouldn't be where we are
Hillary lost Michigan by .3%, Stein received 1.1% of the. Vote. Similar results in Wisconsin, and the other critical swing states
Yeah it made a difference, and I will never forget or forgive the assholes who did that based on their false equivalencies that there was no difference, and falsehoods
ZX86
(1,428 posts)Not "JPR idiots". Not Jill Stein. Not Susan Sarandon. As soon as you relinquish the responsibility to some other entity you will forever lose. If you can't accept competition in the marketplace of ideas you don't belong in the race. If you're in charge of sales at Coke and market share has plummeted year after year, you can't go to management and claim it's all Pepsi's fault and keep your job.
There will always be third parties, Republicans, the media, etc. If your position is Democrats can't win because we always get out smarted by "idiots" we are doomed as a party.
ciaobaby
(1,000 posts)tonedevil
(3,022 posts)I too wonder what the plan is. It seems like the only cure for the current situation would be to outlaw third parties and only allow chosen candidates to compete in primaries. Somehow I feel like I am being told to fall in line even though I have always voted Democratic.
NurseJackie
(42,862 posts)LexVegas
(5,999 posts)NurseJackie
(42,862 posts)ZX86
(1,428 posts)More than any other politician.
Your opinion is a minority one. Minority opinions don't win votes or elections.
Cha
(295,517 posts)LexVegas
(5,999 posts)ZX86
(1,428 posts)But guess what.
Chevy
(1,063 posts)and judging by Twitter there is a loathing building.
Paladin
(28,173 posts)trump is a self-evident disaster, the right-wing media is coming apart at the seams, the populace is aroused---if Bernie has any hand in depriving the for-real Democratic Party of taking full advantage of these favorable circumstances, he'll have squandered his popularity, big-time. He needs to devote his efforts to positive, supportive actions, rather than diverting such actions for his own benefit. Enough is enough.
ZX86
(1,428 posts)The nation is supports Bernie. Do the math.
pnwmom
(108,914 posts)what math are you talking about? Vermont is a mostly rural, 95% white state. His popularity there doesn't extend to everywhere else.
ZX86
(1,428 posts)Or are you completely denying the facts? Bernie is the most popular politician in the nation. This is not debatable. It's like climate change and inauguration attendance numbers.
pnwmom
(108,914 posts)In the poll you cited, he was only compared to 3 current politicians: Elizabeth Warren, Chuck Shumer, and Nancy Pelosi. So it couldn't possibly demonstrate he was the "most popular politician in the nation."
http://harvardharrispoll.com/wp-content/uploads/2017/04/Harvard-CAPS-Harris-Poll-April-Wave-Topline-Favorability-04.18.2017.pdf
betsuni
(25,060 posts)Is not funny, do not laughing.
NurseJackie
(42,862 posts)Chevy
(1,063 posts)jumping up and down stomping your feet? Adds realism to the experience.
betsuni
(25,060 posts)ZX86
(1,428 posts)Perez is booed.
If you think this is a laughing matter for the Democratic party I see a world of hurt for you coming 2018-2020.
so your not a Democrat? Very well then.
NurseJackie
(42,862 posts)I saw that too!
ZX86
(1,428 posts)Voted for every Clinton on every presidential ballot put in front of me. But I can see the writing on the wall.
I've seen the Unity Tour. I've seen the town halls. I've talked to my friends and neighbors. I've read the polls. If you think my views are some outlier, or I'm a Russian troll, or some other such nonsense you are whistling through the graveyard.
Ah, you've been with the professors and they've all liked your looks
With great lawyers you have discussed lepers and crooks
You've been through all of F. Scott Fitzgerald's books
You're very well-read, it's well-known
But something is happening here and you don't know what it is
Do you, Mr. Jones?
-Bob Dylan
Chevy
(1,063 posts)as you have been a member for a few years,your concerns would be taken more seriously if your post didn't come off as hero worship other than issue based debate.
ATL Ebony
(1,097 posts)betsuni
(25,060 posts)NurseJackie
(42,862 posts)Cha
(295,517 posts)Perez was booed and BS did nothing to defend him..
While the booers waved their little hypocritical "come together" signs.
Symome Sanders:.. "In retrospect, she said, Maybe Bernie Sanders isnt the guy for the unity tour."
Why Bernie Sanderss Unity Tour Failed
snip//
The independent senator hit the road with Democratic national chairman Tom Perezand highlighted everything that's tearing the party apart.
https://newrepublic.com/article/142152/bernie-sanderss-unity-tour-failed
The next Unity Tour.. Send People on it who Want to Unify!
Link to tweet
Link to tweet
Link to tweet
NurseJackie
(42,862 posts)I don't know. I could be wrong. It's just my opinion. But that's what I fear. (I'll say no more for now for obvious reasons.)
Cha
(295,517 posts)Now.. but we still have to get 'er done!
Real Unity
Cha
(295,517 posts)the booers waving their little hypocritical "come together" signs.
Symome Sanders:.. "In retrospect, she said, Maybe Bernie Sanders isnt the guy for the unity tour."
Why Bernie Sanderss Unity Tour Failed
snip//
The independent senator hit the road with Democratic national chairman Tom Perezand highlighted everything that's tearing the party apart.
https://newrepublic.com/article/142152/bernie-sanderss-unity-tour-failed
The next Unity Tour.. Send People on it who Want to Unify!
NurseJackie
(42,862 posts)It was a missed opportunity to speak up FOR unity instead of inciting discontent and basking in it. I hope our party leaders will be able to take a valuable lesson from this huge mistake and make adjustments to the message and the troupe members.
Cha
(295,517 posts)Getting old!
I hope so, Jackie.. it's the Damnedest Thing.. only our Planet in Jeopardy!
emulatorloo
(43,922 posts)So I personally can't real excited about that poll. Bernie's great, don't care how popular Pence and Trump are. They are popular but they sure as hell aren't great.
ciaobaby
(1,000 posts)QC
(26,371 posts)NurseJackie
(42,862 posts)George II
(67,782 posts)murielm99
(30,615 posts)yet he did not win the Democratic primaries. Hmmmm.....
emulatorloo
(43,922 posts)Love Bernie but popularity is a meaningless metric, given the next two on the list.
Vinnie From Indy
(10,820 posts)still_one
(91,807 posts)Bradical79
(4,490 posts)If you're going to make a thread like this with that statement, I think you need to provide a link to a source. Otherwise, you're just being divisive.
Vinnie From Indy
(10,820 posts)We must demand sources for these types of threads!
randr
(12,408 posts)in the last Democratic primary I say "throw in the towel Bernie".
Time for the new blood that will be carrying the Democratic platform that they decide upon.
"Get out of the road if you can't lend a hand----"
JCanete
(5,272 posts)killbotfactory
(13,566 posts)ucrdem
(15,512 posts)Withdrawing from TPP is one Trump's few "accomplishments." It was a seriously damaging campaign to wage against Democrats. Politics aside the extent of the damage to US trade will become ever clearer with time.
killbotfactory
(13,566 posts)It was a divisive issue among democrats. Bernie didn't create opposition to the plan.
Chevy
(1,063 posts)TPP and who supported the Senator didn't even know what TPP stood for or what was in it. They just like yelling "No TPP"
Omaha Steve
(98,872 posts)They knew just what it was.
OS
ucrdem
(15,512 posts)He demagogued shamelessly:
Incidentally, US unemployment went down every year of Bill Clinton's presidency, and he signed NAFTA in the first. Also, MI unemployment was running at 5.1% last November, and in WI, at 4.1%. And another meme bites the dust.
Omaha Steve
(98,872 posts)Just working isn't the point. Living wage vs working 2-3 low wage jobs.
Look at the drop in union jobs after NAFTA. Companies like Maytag went to Mexico. I'm so glad they got bought out and the jobs came back here unionized. We bought their top rated by Consumer Reports washer a couple months ago.
The Nabisco products you eat. Looked at the box lately? Those union jobs in Chicago went to Mexico right before the election.
Carrier moving news broke at a bad time too. Those workers understood NAFTA & TPP.
I'm sorry you don't think GOOD jobs are worth protecting and fighting for.
And another meme bites the dust.
OS
ucrdem
(15,512 posts)Maybe there's a reason Apple makes iPhones in Asia eh?
Omaha Steve
(98,872 posts)Isn't a Canadian company threatening to take the USA to court for 1 billion $ if it can't build a pipeline to Koch brother refineries using NAFTA?
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/lori-wallach/nafta-at-20-one-million-u_b_4550207.html
NAFTA at 20: One Million U.S. Jobs Lost, Higher Income Inequality
By Lori Wallach
Snip: For NAFTAs unhappy 20th anniversary, Public Citizen has published a report that details the wreckage. Not only did promises made by NAFTAs proponents not materialize, but many results are exactly the opposite.
Such outcomes include a staggering $181 billion U.S. trade deficit with NAFTA partners Mexico and Canada and the related loss of 1 million net U.S. jobs under NAFTA, growing income inequality, displacement of more than one million Mexican campesino farmers and a doubling of desperate immigration from Mexico, and more than $360 million paid to corporations after investor-state tribunal attacks on, and rollbacks of, domestic public interest policies.
The study makes for a blood-boiling read. For instance, we track the specific promises made by U.S. corporations like GE, Chrysler and Caterpillar to create specific numbers of American jobs if NAFTA was approved, and reveal government data showing that instead, they fired U.S. workers and moved operations to Mexico.
The data also show how post-NAFTA trade and investment trends have contributed to middle-class pay cuts, which in turn contributed to growing income inequality; how since NAFTA, U.S. trade deficit growth with Mexico and Canada has been 45 percent higher than with countries not party to a U.S. Free Trade Agreement, and how U.S. manufacturing exports to Canada and Mexico have grown at less than half the pre-NAFTA rate.
FULL story at link.
I repeat those 1 million workers know it was NAFTA that killed their jobs. And they know TPP is NAFTA on steroids.
Do you really want to cover China trade? I'll be back in the morning.
OS
ucrdem
(15,512 posts)The writer conveniently blames the catastrophic Bush II economy on NAFTA and relies on libertarian nutjob Assange to fill her in on TPP. So did Sanders and a lot of other people but that doesn't mean it wasn't inane claptrap.
Anyway that's the view from the my neck of the woods, good night to you in yours
Omaha Steve
(98,872 posts)Good morning...
Was the study discredited would be easy to find. Here is the study: https://docs.google.com/viewer?url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.citizen.org%2Fdocuments%2FNAFTA-at-20.pdf
From an industry publication: http://www.industryweek.com/who-is-killing-manufacturing
Snip: Under NAFTA, cheap American grain shipped to Mexico without tariffs destroyed peasant farming. And that prompted migration north. Meanwhile, American factories saw desperate Mexicans willing to work for a pittance, a government unwilling to pass or enforce environmental laws, and because of NAFTA, no tariffs when the goods were shipped back to the United States. That propelled factory migration south.
Before NAFTA, the United States had a small trade surplus with Mexico. That disappeared within a year, and now the annual trade deficit is approximately $50 billion.
Though it has been 22 years since NAFTA took effect, a report issued last week by the AFL-CIO says, Labor abuses in many cases are worse now than before NAFTA. . . In short, NAFTA has contributed to labor abuses, not improvements.
The report says the Mexican government fails to enforce labor laws and refuses to ensure that workers can form independent labor unions to try to protect their own rights. In fact, the report says, The human and labor rights situation in Mexico is rapidly deteriorating.
George II
(67,782 posts)Omaha Steve
(98,872 posts)ciaobaby
(1,000 posts)Egnever
(21,506 posts)Long before they even knew what was in it even. Once the text of the bill was released 90% of this board couldn't be bothered to read it.
I would be willing to bet if you ran a poll right now here TPP would still have less than 30% support.
The vast majority of folks here can't get past a headline.
David__77
(23,170 posts)...
QC
(26,371 posts)Egnever
(21,506 posts)Was craven and purely based on the political winds.
A major disappointment for me but given the attitude of the country at the time not the least bit surprising.
QC
(26,371 posts)given the attitude toward "free trade" prevailing last year.
(Now, I'm sure, Donald's Minions will be fine with it when he brings those trade agreements back.)
G_j
(40,366 posts)DU sure is kicking butt these days..
secondwind
(16,903 posts)chillfactor
(7,564 posts)he was too off-the-rails for me. Now I dislike him even more.
Sculpin Beauregard
(1,046 posts)trying to help the GOP keep power.
Get Trump maladministraion out first!
This bullshit is like worrying about your hangnail instead of your heart attack. Focus! Stay united to get Cheeto out!
Gothmog
(143,631 posts)This is not the way to remake the party and win in 2018 and 2020
liberal N proud
(60,289 posts)This Bernie or Bust crap isn't working for me.
Thekaspervote
(32,491 posts)Simple law of the universe... and the mind. Above all else, like Bernie, hate Bernie, like him a bit, dislike him a bit. Give it a rest. We are all democrats here, the trolls want to divide us... is that what you want?? let it drop!!!
BittyJenkins
(393 posts)What I have heard posted on DU does not represent the people I have listened to while I was working for all of those years. Anyone can take one topic or line someone says and turn it into a big negative deal. I do think the bots and the trolls have infested DU in the last week.
What if we all sat back, took a deep breath, and look at the whole of who we all are. We care about making our democracy the best it can be. That is where I have go at the end of the day when I am figuring who to vote for.
I voted for Bernie in the primaries because he represented AND had the track record that I most admired. I voted for Hillary for president and I was very proud to vote for her. She is also an amazing soul.
No one is exactly like me and I think that is a good thing. No one will be able to be exactly like we want them to be all of the time. I feel like we are taking our emotions back to junior high when we could not see the bigger picture.
The trolls are smiling and that is sad.
cheapdate
(3,811 posts)Ms. Toad
(33,896 posts)Please post a link to the claims you are making.
Otherwise it is purely (prohibited) Bernie bashing or (also prohibited) rehashing the primaries.
Nanjeanne
(4,850 posts)through the string of endless losses . . .
but somehow everything is Bernie's fault.
Hillary won the popular vote - that's true. But that, unfortunately, doesn't translate into winning the election since those aren't the rules we play by. She lost to Obama in the primaries and she lost to Trump in the election. Plenty of blame for that loss to go around.
Now the DNC is trying to figure out how to win elections. More of the same that got us here doesn't appear to be the answer. Looking at policies and strategies that Sanders embodies could be the answer (I personally think it is). But this latest stream of "media" stories about Bernie's problems reminds me of the primary -- and the same people seem to be going to their talking points. When will Jonathan Capehart chime in??????????????????????
ciaobaby
(1,000 posts)I still have to turn the station when he comes on MSNBC. He should have apologized.
mikehiggins
(5,614 posts)Like you, every time I see him on TV I puke.
But he's back and so are the same lies and bullshit we heard during the primary.
LakeArenal
(28,673 posts)FailureToCommunicate
(13,968 posts)Thanks Bernie!
The Bernie bashing still seems to appeal to so many here that are angry that Trump won. Bernie, and his primary supporters, are NOT why Trump "won"
But keep your fury over they way things turned out focused on him. It will do a lot of good.
Not.
Darkhawk32
(2,100 posts)I've been saying it for a long, long time. You have to act more like FDR/Sanders rather than Clinton/Emmanuel.
HughBeaumont
(24,461 posts)The elephant in the room people gloss over, for some reason.
ciaobaby
(1,000 posts)Equinox Moon
(6,344 posts)fleabiscuit
(4,542 posts)YOHABLO
(7,358 posts)So stop this fucking nonsense.
Vinnie From Indy
(10,820 posts)The OP has offered NOTHING in the way of sourcing!
I hope all Du'ers note that the OP has posted this allegation and has not responded to a single post asking for any proof that is what Sanders said. In fact, the OP has apparently abandoned this thread.
Use your head people! This post is BS in my opinion!
NoMoreRepugs
(9,216 posts)to the slightest perception someone is maligning their candidate causes way too many people here to lose sight of what's important - getting rid of the Orange Douche and electing more Democratic candidates across the country.
smirkymonkey
(63,221 posts)sick of his shit. He needs to support us or fuck off.
retrowire
(10,345 posts)Our party would be DESTROYED by Bernie's objectives?
His objectives are the only reason so many just JOINED the party.
zentrum
(9,865 posts)...would be demanding of the party.
LOL Lib
(1,462 posts)ms liberty
(8,438 posts)But your concern is noted, as is your divisive attitude.
FailureToCommunicate
(13,968 posts)Highway61
(2,567 posts)Or just stirring up the pot....AGAIN. More time wasted on this "back and forth nonsense" on this site. Unbelievable
Darkhawk32
(2,100 posts)What exactly about his positions do you not like?
Universal healthcare? More accessible college education?
Iggo
(47,470 posts)Darkhawk32
(2,100 posts)tirebiter
(2,520 posts)I can accept politicians like John Bel Edwards but would prefer more Jon Ossof's.
fleabiscuit
(4,542 posts)This isn't the DEMOCRATS first rodeo.
samnsara
(17,554 posts)NWCorona
(8,541 posts)We all gotta see the forest through the trees.
A-Schwarzenegger
(15,596 posts)No, thanks, I already have one.
P.S. By the way, this is a hit-n-run OP.
Generic Brad
(14,268 posts)That doesn't sound like something Bernie has ever said. I have a hard time reacting to statements that are not documented or sourced.
A-Schwarzenegger
(15,596 posts)Generic Brad
(14,268 posts)Ok, then. There is no proof that he ever said that. Noted.
A-Schwarzenegger
(15,596 posts)Not one word from the poster after the trolling OP.
ProfessorGAC
(64,184 posts)Just a grenade into the crowded room, and so many took the bait
A-Schwarzenegger
(15,596 posts)Must be true.
NCTraveler
(30,481 posts)And his base would still love him.
Nanjeanne
(4,850 posts)NCTraveler
(30,481 posts)democratisphere
(17,235 posts)Cha
(295,517 posts)snort
(2,334 posts)Tatiana
(14,167 posts)Our focus should be on the usurper in the WH and the Republican traitors in Congress. Oh yeah, and their collusion with RUSSIA.
Response to nikibatts (Original post)
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Vinca
(50,150 posts)Sorry, we would like to win an election again.
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Gothmog
(143,631 posts)I will not support these efforts
PatSeg
(46,559 posts)divisive post. When and where did Bernie demand that Democrats accept 100% of his platform?
Its starting to feel like a primary around here.
elmac
(4,642 posts)repugs love you for this!