Welcome to DU! The truly grassroots left-of-center political community where regular people, not algorithms, drive the discussions and set the standards. Join the community: Create a free account Support DU (and get rid of ads!): Become a Star Member All Forums Issue Forums Culture Forums Alliance Forums Region Forums Support Forums Help & Search
 

nikibatts

(2,198 posts)
Sat Apr 22, 2017, 03:12 PM Apr 2017

Bernie demands that Democrats accept 100% of his platform? WTF?

I am beginning to really dislike Bernie a lot more than just find him to be an agitator. I have worked too hard for too long to see our party destroyed by someone who continues to use us as a platform for our own destruction.

224 replies = new reply since forum marked as read
Highlight: NoneDon't highlight anything 5 newestHighlight 5 most recent replies
Bernie demands that Democrats accept 100% of his platform? WTF? (Original Post) nikibatts Apr 2017 OP
When did he say that? n/t pnwmom Apr 2017 #1
Joy Reid discussed his demands on the party this a.m. R B Garr Apr 2017 #3
Sanders is done: I will waiting to hear Obama: I wish he would lead the party lewebley3 Apr 2017 #104
Nobody should take the OP's offering on face value. Vinnie From Indy Apr 2017 #154
Its not allegation that Sanders bashed the Dem's, it's a fact: He helped Trump! lewebley3 Apr 2017 #202
All of that may be true, but the OP provided NO source for this allegation Vinnie From Indy Apr 2017 #203
I'm seeing a lot of unsourced claims about Sanders. Flaleftist Apr 2017 #224
Okay, that's enough. Iggo Apr 2017 #2
Hold on, it's never enough! demmiblue Apr 2017 #4
Joy Reid made this statement this morning. Is she R B Garr Apr 2017 #19
Hey thanks for that...nt. druidity33 Apr 2017 #101
You're welcome! demmiblue Apr 2017 #144
They are going after Thom Hartmann and Matt Tiabbi also. nt Snotcicles Apr 2017 #7
Hartmann is on RT bashing Democrats Chevy Apr 2017 #28
Yes I watch it occasionally. Hartmann is a solid Democrat. nt Snotcicles Apr 2017 #208
Thom Hartmann is part of the Russia propaganda network. And Tiabbi is pnwmom Apr 2017 #36
Just like Intercept,TYT and Justice Democrats. N/T Chevy Apr 2017 #39
Right, seeing those. elleng Apr 2017 #65
This is what happens when there is no boss in charge and the vacuum creates situations we don't like DK504 Apr 2017 #5
Please stop the divisive threads. panader0 Apr 2017 #6
Not going to happen until Bernie stops making divisive satements and demands. Lil Missy Apr 2017 #9
That would destroy the Democratic Party. panader0 Apr 2017 #15
And yet Hillary won. n/t Lil Missy Apr 2017 #16
About 98% of Bernie supporters voted for HRC, as did I. panader0 Apr 2017 #18
So you admit the 2% caused Trump to become president. athena Apr 2017 #35
Actually the one to blame for Trump being in office is the EC. cstanleytech Apr 2017 #83
So you're saying Bernie voters who voted for Trump did so believing that the EC would overturn them? athena Apr 2017 #84
No, I'm saying its dumb to be blaming ourselves since it wasnt a lack of popular vote that cost her cstanleytech Apr 2017 #93
What's the EC? LAS14 Apr 2017 #119
Electoral college N/T Chevy Apr 2017 #123
Like Chevy said and they were setup to be a sort of firewall to keep someone like Trump from ever cstanleytech Apr 2017 #147
We had millions of voters deprived of their votes by voter suppression. pnwmom Apr 2017 #168
thank you for that.... samnsara Apr 2017 #106
I doubt the 98%, but voting for the nominee is nothing to brag about, Lil Missy Apr 2017 #190
And after that, she lost. David__77 Apr 2017 #128
Won what? Exilednight Apr 2017 #213
She won the nomination. Did you happen to glance at the OP so you could follow the topic? Lil Missy Apr 2017 #216
That only counts if you win GE. Exilednight Apr 2017 #220
Uh huh. Lil Missy Apr 2017 #222
Winning a primary gets you elected to what exactly? Exilednight Apr 2017 #223
Seems that's what some folks want. JudyM Apr 2017 #22
I am progressive but I did not support Bernie cally Apr 2017 #23
I refuse to call myself a progressive. murielm99 Apr 2017 #37
I, too, prefer the term "liberal". athena Apr 2017 #42
Me too. fun n serious Apr 2017 #49
Go to politicalcompass.org murielm99 Apr 2017 #149
+1 betsuni Apr 2017 #51
And the term Populists Chevy Apr 2017 #64
I hope you are not applying that to safeinOhio Apr 2017 #115
EW is a Democrat who Chevy Apr 2017 #120
Exactly safeinOhio Apr 2017 #122
Thank you, Muriel, especially your last sentence! Hekate Apr 2017 #91
I consider "liberal" and "progressive" to mean different things. Honeycombe8 Apr 2017 #159
I did mention politicalcompass.org murielm99 Apr 2017 #181
One can be a far-left liberal or a moderate liberal. Honeycombe8 Apr 2017 #196
Liberals unite! NastyRiffraff Apr 2017 #200
I am with you. athena Apr 2017 #41
EW is a progressive. safeinOhio Apr 2017 #117
What's your point? athena Apr 2017 #118
No, it is an attempt to bring the two safeinOhio Apr 2017 #125
Elizabeth Warren is never going to be president. athena Apr 2017 #132
Whoa, she won the popular vote and safeinOhio Apr 2017 #136
Thanks for not listening. athena Apr 2017 #137
To end a fight safeinOhio Apr 2017 #138
What changes do Democrats have to make athena Apr 2017 #139
Good luck on the that road. safeinOhio Apr 2017 #141
Democratic Party. Bernie said he is an independent. BFD fleabiscuit Apr 2017 #152
+1 fleabiscuit Apr 2017 #207
... all american girl Apr 2017 #142
Yes, I think so as well. Now it is documented with his support of a candidate that is pro-life. redstatebluegirl Apr 2017 #201
so only bernie fans are progressives? boy that's some hubris there nt msongs Apr 2017 #48
I never made that claim. panader0 Apr 2017 #70
Unfortunately that's exactly what Bernie did calguy Apr 2017 #100
Perhaps Bernie should join the party. fleabiscuit Apr 2017 #153
There are a lot of folks who are Democrats still_one Apr 2017 #63
I don't think progressives are a huge part of the party. Do you have statistics about it? George II Apr 2017 #209
I only know that, in the primaries, about 16.9 million people panader0 Apr 2017 #210
Sorry, I just don't believe that 43% of those who voted in the Democratic primaries, many.... George II Apr 2017 #211
LOL NurseJackie Apr 2017 #212
What's the funny part? panader0 Apr 2017 #214
He's not the leader of the progressives, he's the guy endorsing regressives. Vesper Apr 2017 #219
Bernie is the popular politcian in the nation. ZX86 Apr 2017 #8
He's popular, but not that popular. kstewart33 Apr 2017 #11
You would be completely wrong on that point. ZX86 Apr 2017 #20
No, there is zero evidence of that. He IS very popular in Vermont, pnwmom Apr 2017 #31
Survey: Bernie Sanders is America's most popular active politician ZX86 Apr 2017 #44
That's the poll I was talking about. You need to learn to check original sources pnwmom Apr 2017 #57
No, don't think so. kstewart33 Apr 2017 #103
Incorrect. And his favorability is continuing to rise. Maybe in part because he is not beholden JudyM Apr 2017 #30
And what happens when he's gone from the scene, Judy? Demit Apr 2017 #108
Almost entirely, yes. The pushback from those in the party who begrudge and vilify him needs to JudyM Apr 2017 #126
LOL NurseJackie Apr 2017 #12
Democrats have lost the White House, the Senate, Congress, Governors, and State Houses. ZX86 Apr 2017 #21
They lost it because some self-identified progressives refused to vote for Hillary still_one Apr 2017 #78
The responibility for getting Democrats elected is the Democratic Party. Period. ZX86 Apr 2017 #129
A voice of reason that no one will listen to. ciaobaby Apr 2017 #163
Well stated... tonedevil Apr 2017 #204
... LexVegas Apr 2017 #13
I know, right? NurseJackie Apr 2017 #26
Note the ironic use of "minority opinion". nt LexVegas Apr 2017 #29
Noted. (How could you miss it?) NurseJackie Apr 2017 #32
Minorities overwhelmingly support Bernie Sanders. ZX86 Apr 2017 #47
Oh myyyyyy!!! Chevy Apr 2017 #60
DITTO!! ATL Ebony Apr 2017 #112
Now he's just pulling ***** out of ************* Cha Apr 2017 #161
I dont personally know any that do. LexVegas Apr 2017 #67
Personally I don't know any female Trump voters. ZX86 Apr 2017 #71
... LexVegas Apr 2017 #75
nope me neither Chevy Apr 2017 #113
LOL NurseJackie Apr 2017 #82
NOT true. Cha Apr 2017 #160
Let's see how popular Bernie is, if he keeps trump in office. Paladin Apr 2017 #14
This is a minority opinion. ZX86 Apr 2017 #24
What math? Other than Vermont voters being very happy with him, pnwmom Apr 2017 #33
Is it that you just don't know the facts? ZX86 Apr 2017 #54
No, the problem is you're relying on a survey that doesn't say what you think it does. pnwmom Apr 2017 #58
LOL NurseJackie Apr 2017 #34
THE NATION IS SUPPORTS BERNIE!!!!11!!!! betsuni Apr 2017 #59
I is saw that! It to make me laughing! NurseJackie Apr 2017 #62
Did you write that while Chevy Apr 2017 #69
Of courses I did. betsuni Apr 2017 #72
Bernie is cheered on the Unity Tour. ZX86 Apr 2017 #68
For "You"? Chevy Apr 2017 #74
Whoops! LOL NurseJackie Apr 2017 #79
I've been a life long Democrat. The day I turned 18. ZX86 Apr 2017 #102
The term Russian troll was never used Chevy Apr 2017 #109
WOW, speechless ATL Ebony Apr 2017 #114
The idiom is "whistling past the graveyard." betsuni Apr 2017 #133
"Unity Tour" ... Ri-i-i-igt! NurseJackie Apr 2017 #77
Symome Sanders:"In retrospect, she said, Maybe Bernie Sanders isnt the guy for the unity tour." Cha Apr 2017 #179
I fear that because of an abundance of arrogance, this may have been a missed opportunity. NurseJackie Apr 2017 #184
Ya think! It will have to be The Unity Tour Redux Cha Apr 2017 #189
Yes Perez was booed and BS did nothing to defend him.. Cha Apr 2017 #171
You know that video clip is now being used by the GOP as anti-Dem propoganda. Sad. NurseJackie Apr 2017 #187
ANOTHER Missed Opportunity to speak up for Unity! Cha Apr 2017 #191
Poll ranked Bernie, Pence and Trump as the three most popular politicians emulatorloo Apr 2017 #43
They don't "do" math - they do "let's all hate Bernie together" for some inane reason ciaobaby Apr 2017 #164
Math is hard!!! n/t QC Apr 2017 #170
What does that even mean? NurseJackie Apr 2017 #193
We did the "math" last year. Your premise is incorrect. George II Apr 2017 #197
The most popular politician in the nation, murielm99 Apr 2017 #38
FWIW Pence and Trump are 2nd and 3rd in that poll. emulatorloo Apr 2017 #40
Any proof he actually said this beyond your recollection? Vinnie From Indy Apr 2017 #10
That is a valid point. I would like to know also if he said that still_one Apr 2017 #66
I think you need a source Bradical79 Apr 2017 #17
Totally agree Vinnie From Indy Apr 2017 #148
As a recent delegate for Bernie randr Apr 2017 #25
say it after a thread can be corroborated...nt JCanete Apr 2017 #173
What part of Bernie's platform do you object too? Nt killbotfactory Apr 2017 #27
His objection to TPP played right into Trump's hands. ucrdem Apr 2017 #50
Did Hillary running away from the TPP help? killbotfactory Apr 2017 #88
70% of those who opposed Chevy Apr 2017 #127
Tell that to the rust belt swing state voters Hillary lost thanks to NAFTA job losses!!! Omaha Steve Apr 2017 #157
If they relied on Sanders to tell them, they didn't have the foggiest. ucrdem Apr 2017 #165
The pay went from union manufacturing to asking about fries on your order sir? Omaha Steve Apr 2017 #172
NAFTA didn't encourage offshoring, it regulated it, in 2 countries, Canada and Mexico. ucrdem Apr 2017 #174
NAFTA at 20: One Million U.S. Jobs Lost, Higher Income Inequality Omaha Steve Apr 2017 #177
NAFTA didn't kill those jobs, the Shrub administration did. ucrdem Apr 2017 #178
Not a single link to support your opinion Omaha Steve Apr 2017 #199
That's not a result of NAFTA. What would it have been if NAFTA didn't exist? George II Apr 2017 #192
Ask him Omaha Steve Apr 2017 #194
And you know this how ????? ciaobaby Apr 2017 #167
95% of the folks on this board were against the TPP Egnever Apr 2017 #217
Didn't Clinton oppose this as well? David__77 Apr 2017 #131
After first supporting it. n/t QC Apr 2017 #145
Her reversal on the TPP Egnever Apr 2017 #218
Yep on all counts. Craven, calculating, and probably necessary, QC Apr 2017 #221
long thread for a statement with no source G_j Apr 2017 #45
We accepted pretty much of it at the Convention secondwind Apr 2017 #46
I was never a bernie supporter.... chillfactor Apr 2017 #52
Stop with the Bernie articles. This is active measures Sculpin Beauregard Apr 2017 #53
WOW Gothmog Apr 2017 #55
I recall similar statements during the 2016 campaign liberal N proud Apr 2017 #56
The more attention you give something, the bigger it becomes! Thekaspervote Apr 2017 #61
I have been listening to Rachel, Bernie and Thom for over a decade BittyJenkins Apr 2017 #73
Right there with you. cheapdate Apr 2017 #158
If you are going to post inflammatory articles about Sanders, Ms. Toad Apr 2017 #76
Democrats have lost state houses, governorships, Senate, House and only Pres. Obama has gotten Nanjeanne Apr 2017 #80
I am so glad I am not the only one who remembers the whole Jonathan Capehart Bullshit. ciaobaby Apr 2017 #166
I will never forget Johnathan Capehart mikehiggins Apr 2017 #188
Now children, quit bickering... LakeArenal Apr 2017 #81
To sum up this thread: the Dems lost all four branches of government... FailureToCommunicate Apr 2017 #85
They will continue to lose and lose badly because Democrats try to be Republican-lite. Darkhawk32 Apr 2017 #99
+1,000,000 HughBeaumont Apr 2017 #140
So True! ciaobaby Apr 2017 #169
If that is true, what aspects of his platform don't you agree with? Equinox Moon Apr 2017 #86
The one where women don't count would be one. nt fleabiscuit Apr 2017 #156
nikibatts I don't know what your agenda is, but you are the one with divisive intentions. YOHABLO Apr 2017 #87
+1,000,000 Vinnie From Indy Apr 2017 #155
With u LA, the bickering and sniping and reaction NoMoreRepugs Apr 2017 #89
I voted for Bernie in the primary, but I am now getting pretty smirkymonkey Apr 2017 #90
Woah, calm down dramatic much? retrowire Apr 2017 #92
Wonder what FDR zentrum Apr 2017 #94
Hooray!! Another god damn Bernie thread. LOL Lib Apr 2017 #95
You've joined us a little too late for fighting the primaries. ms liberty Apr 2017 #96
+ 1 ! FailureToCommunicate Apr 2017 #107
Link that he said that???? Highway61 Apr 2017 #97
If Democrats were smart, they sure would accept 100% of his platform. Darkhawk32 Apr 2017 #98
What don't they like? Two words: Bernie Sanders. (n/t) Iggo Apr 2017 #116
Then they can continue to play the Washington Generals. n/t Darkhawk32 Apr 2017 #121
The part about throwing out real choice as a plank tirebiter Apr 2017 #124
That was already in the platform that HRC ran on, and many more progressive ideas than anyone else. fleabiscuit Apr 2017 #206
hes toast to me. hes already campaigning with Ellison.... samnsara Apr 2017 #105
Just think of what the left could accomplish if it could come together. NWCorona Apr 2017 #110
PHAK GNUS? A-Schwarzenegger Apr 2017 #111
Link, please Generic Brad Apr 2017 #130
Here. A-Schwarzenegger Apr 2017 #135
A link to the O/P? Generic Brad Apr 2017 #143
Correct. A transparent hit'n'run post. A-Schwarzenegger Apr 2017 #150
That's where I went too! ProfessorGAC Apr 2017 #182
Somebody on TV said it. A-Schwarzenegger Apr 2017 #195
He could shoot someone in the middle of the street... NCTraveler Apr 2017 #134
Ok now you have totally dragged this stupid thread off the edge. Jeez. Nanjeanne Apr 2017 #146
Mission Accomplished. It was teetering before the first reply. Nt NCTraveler Apr 2017 #183
NO! democratisphere Apr 2017 #151
Yeah well, that "aggressively anti-Choice" Heath Mello part of the platform isn't Cha Apr 2017 #162
Lame snort Apr 2017 #175
We've got to be smarter than this. Tatiana Apr 2017 #176
Message auto-removed Name removed Apr 2017 #180
Ah, the old slice and dice the Democrats again trick. Vinca Apr 2017 #185
Message auto-removed Name removed Apr 2017 #186
I do not accept the concept that we need to remake the party into the image of Sanders Gothmog Apr 2017 #198
This appears to be an intentionally PatSeg Apr 2017 #205
and the circular firing squad has no end elmac Apr 2017 #215

R B Garr

(16,914 posts)
3. Joy Reid discussed his demands on the party this a.m.
Sat Apr 22, 2017, 03:19 PM
Apr 2017

Maybe that's what this is about. She basically was asking about his demands.

Vinnie From Indy

(10,820 posts)
154. Nobody should take the OP's offering on face value.
Sun Apr 23, 2017, 12:23 AM
Apr 2017

I hope all DU'ers note that the OP did not offer a source. The only thing the OP did was make an allegation.


I personally think the OP is full of shit!

 

lewebley3

(3,412 posts)
202. Its not allegation that Sanders bashed the Dem's, it's a fact: He helped Trump!
Sun Apr 23, 2017, 01:27 PM
Apr 2017


Sanders makes me sick when I see him, he was just like Nader,
Sanders has put this country in danger, and if Nader had
not done what he did we wouldn't have had Iraqi war.

Both men think put ideology above country: People elderly
are now under attack from the GOP because of Sanders and
Jill Steins work.

Vinnie From Indy

(10,820 posts)
203. All of that may be true, but the OP provided NO source for this allegation
Sun Apr 23, 2017, 01:55 PM
Apr 2017

In fact, the OP abandoned this thread after posting it.

All Du'ers should demand proof/source for such allegations. I believe all of us are served better by the truth rather than fiction.

pnwmom

(108,914 posts)
36. Thom Hartmann is part of the Russia propaganda network. And Tiabbi is
Sat Apr 22, 2017, 04:05 PM
Apr 2017

a self-proclaimed libertarian. Not an ally.

DK504

(3,847 posts)
5. This is what happens when there is no boss in charge and the vacuum creates situations we don't like
Sat Apr 22, 2017, 03:29 PM
Apr 2017

I do love Bernie, but it is time Democrats join together and knock the snot out of the park.

Lil Missy

(17,865 posts)
9. Not going to happen until Bernie stops making divisive satements and demands.
Sat Apr 22, 2017, 03:35 PM
Apr 2017

He's not a Democrat and should start his own Party.

panader0

(25,816 posts)
15. That would destroy the Democratic Party.
Sat Apr 22, 2017, 03:43 PM
Apr 2017

Right now Progressives are a huge part of the party. Witness the primaries.
You really want to throw out nearly half of the party?

athena

(4,187 posts)
35. So you admit the 2% caused Trump to become president.
Sat Apr 22, 2017, 04:05 PM
Apr 2017

2% is a huge percentage of so-called Progressives who couldn't be bothered to keep a racist and misogynistic malignant narcissist from the most important office in the land.

cstanleytech

(26,026 posts)
83. Actually the one to blame for Trump being in office is the EC.
Sat Apr 22, 2017, 05:19 PM
Apr 2017

Hillary won the popular vote in a landslide Trump only got in because the EC failed this entire country in doing their job which is to keep a complete fucking idiot out of office but had they done their job the words President and Trump would not be joined together now like an episode of the Simpsons with Trump

athena

(4,187 posts)
84. So you're saying Bernie voters who voted for Trump did so believing that the EC would overturn them?
Sat Apr 22, 2017, 05:22 PM
Apr 2017

Good idea, there.

If those 2% of Bernie supporters could have brought themselves to vote for Hillary, we wouldn't be in the mess we are in, regardless of the EC, Comey, or the Russians.

But keep trying to blame others.

cstanleytech

(26,026 posts)
93. No, I'm saying its dumb to be blaming ourselves since it wasnt a lack of popular vote that cost her
Sat Apr 22, 2017, 05:46 PM
Apr 2017

the election rather it was the EC and their failure to do their job for whatever reason be it because they were required by state law to vote for x candidate or because they decided to be assholes and vote for Trump anyway.

cstanleytech

(26,026 posts)
147. Like Chevy said and they were setup to be a sort of firewall to keep someone like Trump from ever
Sat Apr 22, 2017, 10:29 PM
Apr 2017

getting into office unfortunately alot of them have lost sight of that fact and voted party over voting for the best candidate and others had to vote for Trump as some of the states mandate that they have to cast their vote for whoever wins the state which imo defeats the whole purpose of the EC which is to keep someone like Trump out of office.

pnwmom

(108,914 posts)
168. We had millions of voters deprived of their votes by voter suppression.
Sun Apr 23, 2017, 02:30 AM
Apr 2017

We need to support them in getting re-registered and getting ID's.

Lil Missy

(17,865 posts)
190. I doubt the 98%, but voting for the nominee is nothing to brag about,
Sun Apr 23, 2017, 09:27 AM
Apr 2017

That's what real Democrats do. They vote for the nominee.

Lil Missy

(17,865 posts)
216. She won the nomination. Did you happen to glance at the OP so you could follow the topic?
Tue Apr 25, 2017, 12:51 AM
Apr 2017

Hint - you might also check out the comment I responded to.

Thanks for your understanding.

cally

(21,589 posts)
23. I am progressive but I did not support Bernie
Sat Apr 22, 2017, 03:52 PM
Apr 2017

I always believed he did not support women's rights, minority rights, and environmental protection as much as his other platforms. I did not trust him on those issues. When he said that Hillary was not qualified--that did it for me. I made up my mind to support Hillary at that time. You don't say that about the first woman candidate for President who was obviously qualified. You may not agree with her but she was qualified!!! It showed me that Bernie did not understand women's issues and did not retract his statement even when others said it was sexist.


Please do not perpetuate the idea that people like me are not progressive because we did not agree with the candidate you choose. I am not calling you not progressive even though I find those who do not put environmental justice, women's and minority justice first are wrong.

murielm99

(30,615 posts)
37. I refuse to call myself a progressive.
Sat Apr 22, 2017, 04:08 PM
Apr 2017

I am a liberal. I will not let the far right or far left turn "liberal" into a dirty word. I wear the label proudly. Additionally, I think the leftists in our party use the word "progressive" as a purity test. Our party does not need purity tests.

Funny thing, I have always been considered pretty far to the left. As soon as I declined to support Bernie, even though I did not change any of my positions, I became establishment, elitist, corporate.

athena

(4,187 posts)
42. I, too, prefer the term "liberal".
Sat Apr 22, 2017, 04:11 PM
Apr 2017

And I agree with everything else you said. All of it is true of me as well.

 

fun n serious

(4,451 posts)
49. Me too.
Sat Apr 22, 2017, 04:19 PM
Apr 2017

No one ever accused me of being a centrist until this election. Friends, family, co-workers always considered me far left. I became a centrist somehow this election.

murielm99

(30,615 posts)
149. Go to politicalcompass.org
Sat Apr 22, 2017, 11:33 PM
Apr 2017

and take the test. It will be very enlightening.

There are also great links and articles there. It is like taking a mini political science course.

 

Chevy

(1,063 posts)
64. And the term Populists
Sat Apr 22, 2017, 04:34 PM
Apr 2017

a cute term used by the phony left and far right to cover for the agenda of marginalizing of civil rights and womens issues.

Honeycombe8

(37,648 posts)
159. I consider "liberal" and "progressive" to mean different things.
Sun Apr 23, 2017, 01:02 AM
Apr 2017

"Liberal," to me, is anything left of center. "Progressive," to me, means far left. Liberals that are more moderate are sometimes considered RINOs because their positions are close to moderate Republicans in one or more areas (not the same, but close).

This is similar to the alt-right (tea partiers) of the right. They are conservative, but farther right than the moderate Republicans.

Where Trump falls in the spectrum of any party is beyond me. He doesn't seem to have any ideology or center other than money and himself and his family.

murielm99

(30,615 posts)
181. I did mention politicalcompass.org
Sun Apr 23, 2017, 06:21 AM
Apr 2017

in this thread. I have taken the test there, and it shows me as pretty far left, as I have always considered myself to be.

Progressive is a word people have adopted to get away from using the word liberal, since it has been sullied by the right wing media and other haters. I refuse to let those people define me. I am a proud liberal.

Liberals and moderates are not the same thing. One is either or.

And the alt-right is just another term for racists, anti-semites and misogynists. They don't get to soften what they are.

Honeycombe8

(37,648 posts)
196. One can be a far-left liberal or a moderate liberal.
Sun Apr 23, 2017, 10:10 AM
Apr 2017

"Moderate liberal" does not mean neither left nor right, to me. There's a spectrum that starts at the "center" line and goes left and goes right. To the left of center all the way to the far left line is liberal. To the right of center all the way to the far right line is conservative or Republican. Someone in the center, or a bit left or right, is a centrist.

Anything left of center, other than maybe a tiny bit, is liberal. Pro-choice, pro-environmental, etc., but the devil is in the details. One can be pro-choice but not have a problem with banning abortions under certain conditions, or with jumping through hoops to get one. Or maybe supports gay marriage, anti-gay discrimination, but be against allowing transgenders in the bathrooms for the gender they identify with. A progressive, OTOH, may fully support all those causes, with no exceptions or limitations.

It's a spectrum. A Democrat can be any of several things, but they are all liberal (to the left or liberal side of the center). No one would call me a progressive, I think (except tea partiers), but I am definitely liberal.

What you are saying seems to be that anyone who is not far left is not liberal. That's not true. Progressive does not equal liberal. Progressive is at the far left end of the liberal spectrum. Moderate liberals are at the right end of liberal spectrum; that is still liberal.

NastyRiffraff

(12,448 posts)
200. Liberals unite!
Sun Apr 23, 2017, 11:31 AM
Apr 2017

The Republicans hijacked that perfectly honorable term and made it somehow a bad thing; now some of the so-called "progressives" are trying to do the same. I have no idea how or why it's supposed to be better (or more liberal!) to be a progressive. I am a liberal.

athena

(4,187 posts)
41. I am with you.
Sat Apr 22, 2017, 04:10 PM
Apr 2017

It is disturbing that the definition of the word "progressive" has come to refer to a philosophy of throwing women and minorities under the bus in order to focus on the interests of working-class white males.

athena

(4,187 posts)
118. What's your point?
Sat Apr 22, 2017, 07:29 PM
Apr 2017

Can you point to an article where Elizabeth Warren has thrown women and minorities under the bus?

Or is this just an attempt to try to change the topic or confuse the issue?

safeinOhio

(32,461 posts)
125. No, it is an attempt to bring the two
Sat Apr 22, 2017, 07:45 PM
Apr 2017

Warring sides on DU together to make a positive move. I do not know any BS supporters or Clinton supporters that would not have vote for her if she had rum against dumb shit. Makes me think she is the answer to all of this bull going on here.
Am I the only person on DU that can see the obvious. She is a champion for reproductive right, economic rights and a Democrat. I see her as our only current answer to the divide that that could destroy the party.

athena

(4,187 posts)
132. Elizabeth Warren is never going to be president.
Sat Apr 22, 2017, 08:00 PM
Apr 2017

The moment she announced her candidacy, she would be thrown under the bus by the very people who heaped hate on Hillary Clinton. The same goes for any woman who would display the gall to run for president in this super-macho country that believes that women's natural place is on the sidelines.

Please try to understand that many of us who are currently the most vocal supporters of Hillary are women who have faced the most disgusting forms of sexism and hate in the workplace for demanding to be treated as the equals of men. What HRC was subjected to was eerily familiar to us. We recognized what was going on. Sexism is never overt these days; it's always hidden behind reasoning that seems logical and fools those who are not intimately familiar with the tactics used.

You are never going to convince me that any woman would have been able to win where Hillary lost. She was a very strong candidate. Elizabeth Warren, with her soft voice and gentle, professorial demeanor, wouldn't have stood a chance. Claiming otherwise is a form of denial. Before we run a woman candidate again, we need to recognize and deal with the extent of misogyny in this country.

safeinOhio

(32,461 posts)
136. Whoa, she won the popular vote and
Sat Apr 22, 2017, 08:25 PM
Apr 2017

if those BS supporters stayed home or voted for trump as claimed. A smart women that stay on point with a consistent message and without all that baggage, have at least as much chance as the half Irish man that won twice, would be a shoe in.
I'm still of the opinion that she can bring you two warring factions together and go on to be the next President.
This endless fight is not helping one bit. I'm trying to give you people a way out of all this bull shit and a way to victory.

But what does this old man know?

athena

(4,187 posts)
137. Thanks for not listening.
Sat Apr 22, 2017, 08:34 PM
Apr 2017

By the way, if fighting is not helping, then Bernie can easily end it by stopping his attacks against the Democratic Party and his calls for the Party he will not join to accept anti-choicers into its ranks.

athena

(4,187 posts)
139. What changes do Democrats have to make
Sat Apr 22, 2017, 08:41 PM
Apr 2017

to stop Bernie from attacking them? Should Democrats also make changes to stop Republicans from attacking them?

Thanks, but no thanks.

panader0

(25,816 posts)
70. I never made that claim.
Sat Apr 22, 2017, 04:40 PM
Apr 2017

What I say is THE ENEMY IS OVER THERE!
Let's not drive a wedge into our party. Please.

calguy

(5,184 posts)
100. Unfortunately that's exactly what Bernie did
Sat Apr 22, 2017, 06:18 PM
Apr 2017

He drove a wedge thru our party by not graciously withdrawing when his loss was inevitable. Democrats graciously let him run in our party even though he was not a democrat. Some of the mean and desperate attacks on Hillary towards the end made me lose all respect for the Bernie I thought I knew.

panader0

(25,816 posts)
210. I only know that, in the primaries, about 16.9 million people
Mon Apr 24, 2017, 08:25 PM
Apr 2017

voted for Hillary and about 13.2 million voted for Bernie. I believe that almost
all of those Sanders supporters voted for Hillary in the general election, as did I.
Bernie is the leader of the progressives. He endorsed Hillary and asked his
supporters to do so.

George II

(67,782 posts)
211. Sorry, I just don't believe that 43% of those who voted in the Democratic primaries, many....
Mon Apr 24, 2017, 10:12 PM
Apr 2017

....of which were open primaries where republicans whose candidate was a foregone conclusion voted, could be considered "progressives".

On top of that, turnout for the primaries was only about 30%, so gauging the % of Democrats who are "progressives" based on primary votes is questionable.

ZX86

(1,428 posts)
8. Bernie is the popular politcian in the nation.
Sat Apr 22, 2017, 03:34 PM
Apr 2017

By definition your opinion is a minority one. Minority opinions don't win votes or elections.

kstewart33

(6,551 posts)
11. He's popular, but not that popular.
Sat Apr 22, 2017, 03:39 PM
Apr 2017

He has the highest favorable ratings of any US senator but the poll is about favorability among each senator's constituents, not national favorability.

pnwmom

(108,914 posts)
31. No, there is zero evidence of that. He IS very popular in Vermont,
Sat Apr 22, 2017, 04:02 PM
Apr 2017

but that popularity doesn't make him the most popular politician in America. The only recent study on politicians' national popularity included only 3 Dems, 4 Rethugs, and Bernie -- not much competition.

ZX86

(1,428 posts)
44. Survey: Bernie Sanders is America's most popular active politician
Sat Apr 22, 2017, 04:13 PM
Apr 2017

According to data from a Harvard-Harris survey provided exclusively to The Hill, Bernie Sanders is considered the country's most popular active politician.

https://www.aol.com/article/news/2017/04/19/survey-bernie-sanders-is-americas-most-popular-active-politici/22046273/



On the facts you are completely wrong.

pnwmom

(108,914 posts)
57. That's the poll I was talking about. You need to learn to check original sources
Sat Apr 22, 2017, 04:28 PM
Apr 2017

and not rely on misleading summaries.

There were only 3 other active Democratic politicians included in that survey -- Elizabeth Warren, Chuck Shumer, and Nancy Pelosi. So all this poll could show was that Bernie was more popular than those three -- none of whom, of course, got all the media attention he's gotten this year.

http://harvardharrispoll.com/wp-content/uploads/2017/04/Harvard-CAPS-Harris-Poll-April-Wave-Topline-Favorability-04.18.2017.pdf

kstewart33

(6,551 posts)
103. No, don't think so.
Sat Apr 22, 2017, 06:28 PM
Apr 2017

Certainly not wrong about the poll, and waiting for a poll surveying the popularity of Sanders and Obama. Or Sanders and Biden.

Wouldn't be close. Especially with Obama.

Sanders might win among those under 30, but Democrats, especially women who are aware of his less than progressive views on women's right to choose? Or minorities? Nah.

Or come to think of it, Elizabeth Warren. At least among folks who know about her.

JudyM

(29,105 posts)
30. Incorrect. And his favorability is continuing to rise. Maybe in part because he is not beholden
Sat Apr 22, 2017, 04:01 PM
Apr 2017

to any establishment. But this is good for Dems, not bad, because he is aligned with us... the weight he carries among voters is beyond the range our party Dems can carry.


[IMG][/IMG]

http://elections.huffingtonpost.com/pollster/bernie-sanders-favorable-rating

 

Demit

(11,238 posts)
108. And what happens when he's gone from the scene, Judy?
Sat Apr 22, 2017, 07:07 PM
Apr 2017

Do you think the goodwill he engenders from his followers will transfer to the Democrats?

JudyM

(29,105 posts)
126. Almost entirely, yes. The pushback from those in the party who begrudge and vilify him needs to
Sat Apr 22, 2017, 07:46 PM
Apr 2017

stop or it risks alienating them, however. They are not about Bernie, per se (as much as some on DU falsely mock him for), they are passionate about the values he espouses and his courage in speaking truth to power, as clichéd as that expression can sound. I have been very deep in this part of the party, I'll acknowledge, having worked with his supporters all over the country. A few voted for tRump on the misguided belief that his Bernie-lite populism was genuine, but that was very, very few.

Based on their engaging him at a higher level, our party leadership obviously sees that we need to expand our platform and, hopefully, change our alliances/dependencies, in order to better align with what this large voting bloc finds most important. And the vast majority of that voting bloc (as heterogeneous as it is, not a uniform bloc) will vote Dem without a doubt if we shift in that direction.

The values-shift wouldn't be anti-Dem, in fact it'd go back to more traditional Dem values. At the heart of it, though, is a view that, to correspond with doing what is in the best interest of people and planet, the party needs to focus far less energy and revenue on what the big dollar donors/industries want, and far more on real social and eco improvement. If that change is made, the crowds will follow, because no way in hell will the rethugs meet us there.

ZX86

(1,428 posts)
21. Democrats have lost the White House, the Senate, Congress, Governors, and State Houses.
Sat Apr 22, 2017, 03:51 PM
Apr 2017

It's not funny.

still_one

(91,807 posts)
78. They lost it because some self-identified progressives refused to vote for Hillary
Sat Apr 22, 2017, 04:52 PM
Apr 2017

Even with what Comey did, if those JPR like idiots had voted for Hillary we wouldn't be where we are

Hillary lost Michigan by .3%, Stein received 1.1% of the. Vote. Similar results in Wisconsin, and the other critical swing states

Yeah it made a difference, and I will never forget or forgive the assholes who did that based on their false equivalencies that there was no difference, and falsehoods

ZX86

(1,428 posts)
129. The responibility for getting Democrats elected is the Democratic Party. Period.
Sat Apr 22, 2017, 07:53 PM
Apr 2017

Not "JPR idiots". Not Jill Stein. Not Susan Sarandon. As soon as you relinquish the responsibility to some other entity you will forever lose. If you can't accept competition in the marketplace of ideas you don't belong in the race. If you're in charge of sales at Coke and market share has plummeted year after year, you can't go to management and claim it's all Pepsi's fault and keep your job.

There will always be third parties, Republicans, the media, etc. If your position is Democrats can't win because we always get out smarted by "idiots" we are doomed as a party.

 

tonedevil

(3,022 posts)
204. Well stated...
Sun Apr 23, 2017, 02:23 PM
Apr 2017

I too wonder what the plan is. It seems like the only cure for the current situation would be to outlaw third parties and only allow chosen candidates to compete in primaries. Somehow I feel like I am being told to fall in line even though I have always voted Democratic.

ZX86

(1,428 posts)
47. Minorities overwhelmingly support Bernie Sanders.
Sat Apr 22, 2017, 04:18 PM
Apr 2017

More than any other politician.

Your opinion is a minority one. Minority opinions don't win votes or elections.

Paladin

(28,173 posts)
14. Let's see how popular Bernie is, if he keeps trump in office.
Sat Apr 22, 2017, 03:41 PM
Apr 2017

trump is a self-evident disaster, the right-wing media is coming apart at the seams, the populace is aroused---if Bernie has any hand in depriving the for-real Democratic Party of taking full advantage of these favorable circumstances, he'll have squandered his popularity, big-time. He needs to devote his efforts to positive, supportive actions, rather than diverting such actions for his own benefit. Enough is enough.

pnwmom

(108,914 posts)
33. What math? Other than Vermont voters being very happy with him,
Sat Apr 22, 2017, 04:04 PM
Apr 2017

what math are you talking about? Vermont is a mostly rural, 95% white state. His popularity there doesn't extend to everywhere else.

ZX86

(1,428 posts)
54. Is it that you just don't know the facts?
Sat Apr 22, 2017, 04:24 PM
Apr 2017

Or are you completely denying the facts? Bernie is the most popular politician in the nation. This is not debatable. It's like climate change and inauguration attendance numbers.

pnwmom

(108,914 posts)
58. No, the problem is you're relying on a survey that doesn't say what you think it does.
Sat Apr 22, 2017, 04:29 PM
Apr 2017

In the poll you cited, he was only compared to 3 current politicians: Elizabeth Warren, Chuck Shumer, and Nancy Pelosi. So it couldn't possibly demonstrate he was the "most popular politician in the nation."

http://harvardharrispoll.com/wp-content/uploads/2017/04/Harvard-CAPS-Harris-Poll-April-Wave-Topline-Favorability-04.18.2017.pdf

 

Chevy

(1,063 posts)
69. Did you write that while
Sat Apr 22, 2017, 04:40 PM
Apr 2017

jumping up and down stomping your feet? Adds realism to the experience.

ZX86

(1,428 posts)
68. Bernie is cheered on the Unity Tour.
Sat Apr 22, 2017, 04:39 PM
Apr 2017

Perez is booed.

If you think this is a laughing matter for the Democratic party I see a world of hurt for you coming 2018-2020.

ZX86

(1,428 posts)
102. I've been a life long Democrat. The day I turned 18.
Sat Apr 22, 2017, 06:22 PM
Apr 2017

Voted for every Clinton on every presidential ballot put in front of me. But I can see the writing on the wall.

I've seen the Unity Tour. I've seen the town halls. I've talked to my friends and neighbors. I've read the polls. If you think my views are some outlier, or I'm a Russian troll, or some other such nonsense you are whistling through the graveyard.







Ah, you've been with the professors and they've all liked your looks
With great lawyers you have discussed lepers and crooks
You've been through all of F. Scott Fitzgerald's books
You're very well-read, it's well-known
But something is happening here and you don't know what it is
Do you, Mr. Jones?

-Bob Dylan

 

Chevy

(1,063 posts)
109. The term Russian troll was never used
Sat Apr 22, 2017, 07:08 PM
Apr 2017

as you have been a member for a few years,your concerns would be taken more seriously if your post didn't come off as hero worship other than issue based debate.

NurseJackie

(42,862 posts)
77. "Unity Tour" ... Ri-i-i-igt!
Sat Apr 22, 2017, 04:52 PM
Apr 2017


If you think this is a laughing matter for the Democratic party I see a world of hurt for you coming 2018-2020.
Interesting phrasing.


Cha

(295,517 posts)
179. Symome Sanders:"In retrospect, she said, Maybe Bernie Sanders isnt the guy for the unity tour."
Sun Apr 23, 2017, 03:57 AM
Apr 2017

Perez was booed and BS did nothing to defend him..

While the booers waved their little hypocritical "come together" signs.

Symome Sanders:.. "In retrospect, she said, Maybe Bernie Sanders isnt the guy for the unity tour."

Why Bernie Sanders’s Unity Tour Failed

snip//

The independent senator hit the road with Democratic national chairman Tom Perez—and highlighted everything that's tearing the party apart.

https://newrepublic.com/article/142152/bernie-sanderss-unity-tour-failed

The next Unity Tour.. Send People on it who Want to Unify!








NurseJackie

(42,862 posts)
184. I fear that because of an abundance of arrogance, this may have been a missed opportunity.
Sun Apr 23, 2017, 08:05 AM
Apr 2017

I don't know. I could be wrong. It's just my opinion. But that's what I fear. (I'll say no more for now for obvious reasons.)


Cha

(295,517 posts)
189. Ya think! It will have to be The Unity Tour Redux
Sun Apr 23, 2017, 09:26 AM
Apr 2017

Now.. but we still have to get 'er done!

Real Unity

Cha

(295,517 posts)
171. Yes Perez was booed and BS did nothing to defend him..
Sun Apr 23, 2017, 02:48 AM
Apr 2017

the booers waving their little hypocritical "come together" signs.

Symome Sanders:.. "In retrospect, she said, Maybe Bernie Sanders isnt the guy for the unity tour."

Why Bernie Sanders’s Unity Tour Failed

snip//

The independent senator hit the road with Democratic national chairman Tom Perez—and highlighted everything that's tearing the party apart.

https://newrepublic.com/article/142152/bernie-sanderss-unity-tour-failed

The next Unity Tour.. Send People on it who Want to Unify!

NurseJackie

(42,862 posts)
187. You know that video clip is now being used by the GOP as anti-Dem propoganda. Sad.
Sun Apr 23, 2017, 08:32 AM
Apr 2017

It was a missed opportunity to speak up FOR unity instead of inciting discontent and basking in it. I hope our party leaders will be able to take a valuable lesson from this huge mistake and make adjustments to the message and the troupe members.


Cha

(295,517 posts)
191. ANOTHER Missed Opportunity to speak up for Unity!
Sun Apr 23, 2017, 09:29 AM
Apr 2017

Getting old!

I hope so, Jackie.. it's the Damnedest Thing.. only our Planet in Jeopardy!

emulatorloo

(43,922 posts)
43. Poll ranked Bernie, Pence and Trump as the three most popular politicians
Sat Apr 22, 2017, 04:13 PM
Apr 2017

So I personally can't real excited about that poll. Bernie's great, don't care how popular Pence and Trump are. They are popular but they sure as hell aren't great.

murielm99

(30,615 posts)
38. The most popular politician in the nation,
Sat Apr 22, 2017, 04:09 PM
Apr 2017

yet he did not win the Democratic primaries. Hmmmm.....

emulatorloo

(43,922 posts)
40. FWIW Pence and Trump are 2nd and 3rd in that poll.
Sat Apr 22, 2017, 04:09 PM
Apr 2017

Love Bernie but popularity is a meaningless metric, given the next two on the list.

 

Bradical79

(4,490 posts)
17. I think you need a source
Sat Apr 22, 2017, 03:44 PM
Apr 2017

If you're going to make a thread like this with that statement, I think you need to provide a link to a source. Otherwise, you're just being divisive.

randr

(12,408 posts)
25. As a recent delegate for Bernie
Sat Apr 22, 2017, 03:54 PM
Apr 2017

in the last Democratic primary I say "throw in the towel Bernie".
Time for the new blood that will be carrying the Democratic platform that they decide upon.
"Get out of the road if you can't lend a hand----"

ucrdem

(15,512 posts)
50. His objection to TPP played right into Trump's hands.
Sat Apr 22, 2017, 04:21 PM
Apr 2017

Withdrawing from TPP is one Trump's few "accomplishments." It was a seriously damaging campaign to wage against Democrats. Politics aside the extent of the damage to US trade will become ever clearer with time.

killbotfactory

(13,566 posts)
88. Did Hillary running away from the TPP help?
Sat Apr 22, 2017, 05:29 PM
Apr 2017

It was a divisive issue among democrats. Bernie didn't create opposition to the plan.

 

Chevy

(1,063 posts)
127. 70% of those who opposed
Sat Apr 22, 2017, 07:48 PM
Apr 2017

TPP and who supported the Senator didn't even know what TPP stood for or what was in it. They just like yelling "No TPP"

Omaha Steve

(98,872 posts)
157. Tell that to the rust belt swing state voters Hillary lost thanks to NAFTA job losses!!!
Sun Apr 23, 2017, 12:36 AM
Apr 2017

They knew just what it was.

OS

ucrdem

(15,512 posts)
165. If they relied on Sanders to tell them, they didn't have the foggiest.
Sun Apr 23, 2017, 02:26 AM
Apr 2017

He demagogued shamelessly:



Incidentally, US unemployment went down every year of Bill Clinton's presidency, and he signed NAFTA in the first. Also, MI unemployment was running at 5.1% last November, and in WI, at 4.1%. And another meme bites the dust.

Omaha Steve

(98,872 posts)
172. The pay went from union manufacturing to asking about fries on your order sir?
Sun Apr 23, 2017, 02:56 AM
Apr 2017

Just working isn't the point. Living wage vs working 2-3 low wage jobs.

Look at the drop in union jobs after NAFTA. Companies like Maytag went to Mexico. I'm so glad they got bought out and the jobs came back here unionized. We bought their top rated by Consumer Reports washer a couple months ago.

The Nabisco products you eat. Looked at the box lately? Those union jobs in Chicago went to Mexico right before the election.

Carrier moving news broke at a bad time too. Those workers understood NAFTA & TPP.

I'm sorry you don't think GOOD jobs are worth protecting and fighting for.

And another meme bites the dust.

OS

ucrdem

(15,512 posts)
174. NAFTA didn't encourage offshoring, it regulated it, in 2 countries, Canada and Mexico.
Sun Apr 23, 2017, 03:09 AM
Apr 2017

Maybe there's a reason Apple makes iPhones in Asia eh?

Omaha Steve

(98,872 posts)
177. NAFTA at 20: One Million U.S. Jobs Lost, Higher Income Inequality
Sun Apr 23, 2017, 03:33 AM
Apr 2017



Isn't a Canadian company threatening to take the USA to court for 1 billion $ if it can't build a pipeline to Koch brother refineries using NAFTA?

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/lori-wallach/nafta-at-20-one-million-u_b_4550207.html

NAFTA at 20: One Million U.S. Jobs Lost, Higher Income Inequality

By Lori Wallach

Snip: For NAFTA’s unhappy 20th anniversary, Public Citizen has published a report that details the wreckage. Not only did promises made by NAFTA’s proponents not materialize, but many results are exactly the opposite.

Such outcomes include a staggering $181 billion U.S. trade deficit with NAFTA partners Mexico and Canada and the related loss of 1 million net U.S. jobs under NAFTA, growing income inequality, displacement of more than one million Mexican campesino farmers and a doubling of desperate immigration from Mexico, and more than $360 million paid to corporations after “investor-state” tribunal attacks on, and rollbacks of, domestic public interest policies.

The study makes for a blood-boiling read. For instance, we track the specific promises made by U.S. corporations like GE, Chrysler and Caterpillar to create specific numbers of American jobs if NAFTA was approved, and reveal government data showing that instead, they fired U.S. workers and moved operations to Mexico.

The data also show how post-NAFTA trade and investment trends have contributed to middle-class pay cuts, which in turn contributed to growing income inequality; how since NAFTA, U.S. trade deficit growth with Mexico and Canada has been 45 percent higher than with countries not party to a U.S. Free Trade Agreement, and how U.S. manufacturing exports to Canada and Mexico have grown at less than half the pre-NAFTA rate.

FULL story at link.

I repeat those 1 million workers know it was NAFTA that killed their jobs. And they know TPP is NAFTA on steroids.

Do you really want to cover China trade? I'll be back in the morning.

OS

ucrdem

(15,512 posts)
178. NAFTA didn't kill those jobs, the Shrub administration did.
Sun Apr 23, 2017, 03:42 AM
Apr 2017

The writer conveniently blames the catastrophic Bush II economy on NAFTA and relies on libertarian nutjob Assange to fill her in on TPP. So did Sanders and a lot of other people but that doesn't mean it wasn't inane claptrap.

Anyway that's the view from the my neck of the woods, good night to you in yours

Omaha Steve

(98,872 posts)
199. Not a single link to support your opinion
Sun Apr 23, 2017, 10:49 AM
Apr 2017

Good morning...

Was the study discredited would be easy to find. Here is the study: https://docs.google.com/viewer?url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.citizen.org%2Fdocuments%2FNAFTA-at-20.pdf




From an industry publication: http://www.industryweek.com/who-is-killing-manufacturing

Snip: Under NAFTA, cheap American grain shipped to Mexico without tariffs destroyed peasant farming. And that prompted migration north. Meanwhile, American factories saw desperate Mexicans willing to work for a pittance, a government unwilling to pass or enforce environmental laws, and because of NAFTA, no tariffs when the goods were shipped back to the United States. That propelled factory migration south.

Before NAFTA, the United States had a small trade surplus with Mexico. That disappeared within a year, and now the annual trade deficit is approximately $50 billion.

Though it has been 22 years since NAFTA took effect, a report issued last week by the AFL-CIO says, “Labor abuses in many cases are worse now than before NAFTA. . . In short, NAFTA has contributed to labor abuses, not improvements.”

The report says the Mexican government fails to enforce labor laws and refuses to ensure that workers can form independent labor unions to try to protect their own rights. In fact, the report says, “The human and labor rights situation in Mexico is rapidly deteriorating.”

 

Egnever

(21,506 posts)
217. 95% of the folks on this board were against the TPP
Tue Apr 25, 2017, 01:31 AM
Apr 2017

Long before they even knew what was in it even. Once the text of the bill was released 90% of this board couldn't be bothered to read it.

I would be willing to bet if you ran a poll right now here TPP would still have less than 30% support.

The vast majority of folks here can't get past a headline.

 

Egnever

(21,506 posts)
218. Her reversal on the TPP
Tue Apr 25, 2017, 01:34 AM
Apr 2017

Was craven and purely based on the political winds.

A major disappointment for me but given the attitude of the country at the time not the least bit surprising.

QC

(26,371 posts)
221. Yep on all counts. Craven, calculating, and probably necessary,
Tue Apr 25, 2017, 08:55 AM
Apr 2017

given the attitude toward "free trade" prevailing last year.

(Now, I'm sure, Donald's Minions will be fine with it when he brings those trade agreements back.)

Sculpin Beauregard

(1,046 posts)
53. Stop with the Bernie articles. This is active measures
Sat Apr 22, 2017, 04:24 PM
Apr 2017

trying to help the GOP keep power.

Get Trump maladministraion out first!

This bullshit is like worrying about your hangnail instead of your heart attack. Focus! Stay united to get Cheeto out!

Thekaspervote

(32,491 posts)
61. The more attention you give something, the bigger it becomes!
Sat Apr 22, 2017, 04:32 PM
Apr 2017

Simple law of the universe... and the mind. Above all else, like Bernie, hate Bernie, like him a bit, dislike him a bit. Give it a rest. We are all democrats here, the trolls want to divide us... is that what you want?? let it drop!!!

BittyJenkins

(393 posts)
73. I have been listening to Rachel, Bernie and Thom for over a decade
Sat Apr 22, 2017, 04:43 PM
Apr 2017

What I have heard posted on DU does not represent the people I have listened to while I was working for all of those years. Anyone can take one topic or line someone says and turn it into a big negative deal. I do think the bots and the trolls have infested DU in the last week.

What if we all sat back, took a deep breath, and look at the whole of who we all are. We care about making our democracy the best it can be. That is where I have go at the end of the day when I am figuring who to vote for.

I voted for Bernie in the primaries because he represented AND had the track record that I most admired. I voted for Hillary for president and I was very proud to vote for her. She is also an amazing soul.

No one is exactly like me and I think that is a good thing. No one will be able to be exactly like we want them to be all of the time. I feel like we are taking our emotions back to junior high when we could not see the bigger picture.

The trolls are smiling and that is sad.

Ms. Toad

(33,896 posts)
76. If you are going to post inflammatory articles about Sanders,
Sat Apr 22, 2017, 04:51 PM
Apr 2017

Please post a link to the claims you are making.

Otherwise it is purely (prohibited) Bernie bashing or (also prohibited) rehashing the primaries.

Nanjeanne

(4,850 posts)
80. Democrats have lost state houses, governorships, Senate, House and only Pres. Obama has gotten
Sat Apr 22, 2017, 04:57 PM
Apr 2017

through the string of endless losses . . .

but somehow everything is Bernie's fault.

Hillary won the popular vote - that's true. But that, unfortunately, doesn't translate into winning the election since those aren't the rules we play by. She lost to Obama in the primaries and she lost to Trump in the election. Plenty of blame for that loss to go around.

Now the DNC is trying to figure out how to win elections. More of the same that got us here doesn't appear to be the answer. Looking at policies and strategies that Sanders embodies could be the answer (I personally think it is). But this latest stream of "media" stories about Bernie's problems reminds me of the primary -- and the same people seem to be going to their talking points. When will Jonathan Capehart chime in??????????????????????

 

ciaobaby

(1,000 posts)
166. I am so glad I am not the only one who remembers the whole Jonathan Capehart Bullshit.
Sun Apr 23, 2017, 02:27 AM
Apr 2017

I still have to turn the station when he comes on MSNBC. He should have apologized.

mikehiggins

(5,614 posts)
188. I will never forget Johnathan Capehart
Sun Apr 23, 2017, 08:46 AM
Apr 2017

Like you, every time I see him on TV I puke.

But he's back and so are the same lies and bullshit we heard during the primary.

FailureToCommunicate

(13,968 posts)
85. To sum up this thread: the Dems lost all four branches of government...
Sat Apr 22, 2017, 05:24 PM
Apr 2017

Thanks Bernie!


The Bernie bashing still seems to appeal to so many here that are angry that Trump won. Bernie, and his primary supporters, are NOT why Trump "won"

But keep your fury over they way things turned out focused on him. It will do a lot of good.

Not.

Darkhawk32

(2,100 posts)
99. They will continue to lose and lose badly because Democrats try to be Republican-lite.
Sat Apr 22, 2017, 05:59 PM
Apr 2017

I've been saying it for a long, long time. You have to act more like FDR/Sanders rather than Clinton/Emmanuel.

 

YOHABLO

(7,358 posts)
87. nikibatts I don't know what your agenda is, but you are the one with divisive intentions.
Sat Apr 22, 2017, 05:29 PM
Apr 2017

So stop this fucking nonsense.

Vinnie From Indy

(10,820 posts)
155. +1,000,000
Sun Apr 23, 2017, 12:26 AM
Apr 2017

The OP has offered NOTHING in the way of sourcing!

I hope all Du'ers note that the OP has posted this allegation and has not responded to a single post asking for any proof that is what Sanders said. In fact, the OP has apparently abandoned this thread.

Use your head people! This post is BS in my opinion!

NoMoreRepugs

(9,216 posts)
89. With u LA, the bickering and sniping and reaction
Sat Apr 22, 2017, 05:32 PM
Apr 2017

to the slightest perception someone is maligning their candidate causes way too many people here to lose sight of what's important - getting rid of the Orange Douche and electing more Democratic candidates across the country.

 

smirkymonkey

(63,221 posts)
90. I voted for Bernie in the primary, but I am now getting pretty
Sat Apr 22, 2017, 05:33 PM
Apr 2017

sick of his shit. He needs to support us or fuck off.

retrowire

(10,345 posts)
92. Woah, calm down dramatic much?
Sat Apr 22, 2017, 05:46 PM
Apr 2017

Our party would be DESTROYED by Bernie's objectives?

His objectives are the only reason so many just JOINED the party.

ms liberty

(8,438 posts)
96. You've joined us a little too late for fighting the primaries.
Sat Apr 22, 2017, 05:55 PM
Apr 2017

But your concern is noted, as is your divisive attitude.

Highway61

(2,567 posts)
97. Link that he said that????
Sat Apr 22, 2017, 05:56 PM
Apr 2017

Or just stirring up the pot....AGAIN. More time wasted on this "back and forth nonsense" on this site. Unbelievable

Darkhawk32

(2,100 posts)
98. If Democrats were smart, they sure would accept 100% of his platform.
Sat Apr 22, 2017, 05:58 PM
Apr 2017

What exactly about his positions do you not like?

Universal healthcare? More accessible college education?

tirebiter

(2,520 posts)
124. The part about throwing out real choice as a plank
Sat Apr 22, 2017, 07:38 PM
Apr 2017

I can accept politicians like John Bel Edwards but would prefer more Jon Ossof's.

fleabiscuit

(4,542 posts)
206. That was already in the platform that HRC ran on, and many more progressive ideas than anyone else.
Sun Apr 23, 2017, 06:20 PM
Apr 2017

This isn't the DEMOCRATS first rodeo.

NWCorona

(8,541 posts)
110. Just think of what the left could accomplish if it could come together.
Sat Apr 22, 2017, 07:13 PM
Apr 2017

We all gotta see the forest through the trees.

Generic Brad

(14,268 posts)
130. Link, please
Sat Apr 22, 2017, 07:56 PM
Apr 2017

That doesn't sound like something Bernie has ever said. I have a hard time reacting to statements that are not documented or sourced.

Tatiana

(14,167 posts)
176. We've got to be smarter than this.
Sun Apr 23, 2017, 03:30 AM
Apr 2017

Our focus should be on the usurper in the WH and the Republican traitors in Congress. Oh yeah, and their collusion with RUSSIA.

Response to nikibatts (Original post)

Vinca

(50,150 posts)
185. Ah, the old slice and dice the Democrats again trick.
Sun Apr 23, 2017, 08:10 AM
Apr 2017

Sorry, we would like to win an election again.

Response to nikibatts (Original post)

Gothmog

(143,631 posts)
198. I do not accept the concept that we need to remake the party into the image of Sanders
Sun Apr 23, 2017, 10:45 AM
Apr 2017

I will not support these efforts

PatSeg

(46,559 posts)
205. This appears to be an intentionally
Sun Apr 23, 2017, 02:33 PM
Apr 2017

divisive post. When and where did Bernie demand that Democrats accept 100% of his platform?

Its starting to feel like a primary around here.

Latest Discussions»General Discussion»Bernie demands that Democ...