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Fri Apr 21, 2017, 01:57 PM

 

I'm not sure we didn't put an innocent man to death last night.

I read in another article he asked for a DNA test to match against DNA at the scene but it wasn't granted.

I heard Ledell professed and proclaimed his innocense from beginning to end and his last meal was "the Holy Communion".

My smell test tells me Ledell is acting the way an innocent person acts in the face of injustice. Oppose it to the very end.



http://www.cnn.com/2017/04/21/us/arkansas-ledell-lee-execution/index.html




Edited: Yep found it, here's from an article about the DNA.

"LITTLE ROCK, Ark. (KTHV) - A Pulaski County Circuit Court judge has denied a motion set forth by the ACLU, which asked for new DNA testing for Ledell Lee's case.

The ACLU cited two reasons for the motion to stay Lee's execution. The first reason was that advances in DNA testing allowed for new testing in his case. The second reason given by the ACLU was that he has an intellectual disability due to fetal alcohol syndrome and his "horrible legal counsel" did not present that in his original trial.

They argued that new testing would prove that the hair found at the scene did not belong to Lee and that blood on his shoe was not from the victim, Debra Reese. Lee was convicted for the 1993 murder of Reese.

In his ruling, Judge Herbert Wright said that improvements to DNA testing "has been available for some years prior" and questioned the delay in the filing by the ACLU."

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Reply I'm not sure we didn't put an innocent man to death last night. (Original post)
The99thTimeLord Apr 2017 OP
Vinca Apr 2017 #1
spanone Apr 2017 #2
Delphinus Apr 2017 #7
CrispyQ Apr 2017 #3
NCTraveler Apr 2017 #11
atreides1 Apr 2017 #12
Phoenix61 Apr 2017 #4
elleng Apr 2017 #5
Delphinus Apr 2017 #6
NCTraveler Apr 2017 #8
The99thTimeLord Apr 2017 #10
NCTraveler Apr 2017 #13
The99thTimeLord Apr 2017 #14
NCTraveler Apr 2017 #15
The99thTimeLord Apr 2017 #16
NCTraveler Apr 2017 #17
The99thTimeLord Apr 2017 #18
Eliot Rosewater Apr 2017 #9
mythology Apr 2017 #19
Warpy Apr 2017 #20
The99thTimeLord Apr 2017 #21

Response to The99thTimeLord (Original post)

Fri Apr 21, 2017, 02:00 PM

1. It's outrageous when they refuse to do DNA tests.

And I can't figure out why the most blood thirsty death penalty proponents aren't bothered that a real killer is still somewhere on the loose if this guy happened to be innocent. The death penalty should be done away with because there's never a guarantee an innocent person isn't going to be murdered by the state.

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Response to The99thTimeLord (Original post)

Fri Apr 21, 2017, 02:00 PM

2. why deny anyone we are going to kill a DNA test?

makes no sense....if the state kills an innocent man, they are no better than the actual murderer

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Response to spanone (Reply #2)

Fri Apr 21, 2017, 02:05 PM

7. Amen!

I could not live with myself.

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Response to The99thTimeLord (Original post)

Fri Apr 21, 2017, 02:00 PM

3. Why would a DNA test be denied?

Why not use every tool available to find the truth?

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Response to CrispyQ (Reply #3)

Fri Apr 21, 2017, 02:16 PM

11. In the ruling, the judge said that even if the DNA didn't match....

There was still sufficient evidence to find him guilty.



The hair they claim was his. They did microscope comparisons. That is not valid today. Today we could verify it was his or hers by way of DNA testing.

The drop of blood on his shoe. I'm not sure what they were going for there. Testing could have told us something. It could have been his, hers, or someone else's. Either way it would have been an important piece to the puzzle.

I don't care how guilty someone is I do not support the death penalty. I also think we should use additional DNA analysis is situations like this. If the drop of blood is from someone else there is a possibility that a second person was there and they are walking free.

From the start he has gotten screwed by the legal system, guilty or not. One of his first lawyers was thrown out for staying drunk.

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Response to CrispyQ (Reply #3)

Fri Apr 21, 2017, 02:17 PM

12. Because

Sometimes, the truth isn't as important as a win...

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Response to The99thTimeLord (Original post)

Fri Apr 21, 2017, 02:02 PM

4. The biggest reason I'm against the death penalty

There are others but that is the most important one.

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Response to The99thTimeLord (Original post)

Fri Apr 21, 2017, 02:02 PM

5. Happens often.

My reason for NO death penalty EVER.

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Response to The99thTimeLord (Original post)

Fri Apr 21, 2017, 02:04 PM

6. I heard

an interview yesterday on NPR - I think it was Here and Now - where they were talking with an ABC reporter out of Arkansas who said the people, inflamed by one lawmaker in particular, were incensed that their ability to execute these men was overturned. The aforementioned lawmaker actually gave out the telephone number of one of the judges. What really got me was that it seemed NO ONE was mentioned as being upset or up-in-arms about the fact they were going to execute this series of men!

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Response to The99thTimeLord (Original post)

Fri Apr 21, 2017, 02:09 PM

8. His last meal being "the Holy Communion" has little to do with anything.

That said, we should never accept state sanctioned murder.

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Response to NCTraveler (Reply #8)

Fri Apr 21, 2017, 02:15 PM

10. It means something to me.

 

If I was a murderer I'd go out with a steak.
If I was innocent and the justice system were taking my life, I'd go out with the hope that there was more justice in an afterlife than I had found in this one.

Now I happen to personally think the holy communion is as holy as a happy meal. It's what we conjure up to make it. It's as important as we convince ourself it is. But that doesn't mean I don't see this as a way of dealing with the unthinkably awful task of coping with the reality that your innocent life is going to be taken away from you by people who think you did something you know you didn't do.

Edited:

And further. You know who takes communion? People who are saying they are right with God. I was taught when taking communion that if you aren't right with your brother and God than you can't take communion. And I saw that manifested by people in the church refusing communion from time to time. Women who were cheating, dudes you knew were going through divorces, that sort of thing. Basically, if somebody knew that everyone knew about something they were doing, then they'd follow the rule of refusing communion. In reality everyone should've been refusing the communion, but I digress. A conversation for another time. It's really a statement to those around watching.

If I'm innocent and I've declared my innocents throughout, and it's my last meal and I believe in it and everything, I'm showing "I'm communion ready". I mean it's silly but when it's a last thing for your innocents to stand on, it's something.

Just my perspective from my small slice of the bible belt.

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Response to The99thTimeLord (Reply #10)

Fri Apr 21, 2017, 02:18 PM

13. " If I was a murderer I'd go out with a steak. "

As far as I know you are not a murderer nor have you been in his situation for this long. He is a lifer in the system. Was also found guilty of raping multiple women.

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Response to NCTraveler (Reply #13)

Fri Apr 21, 2017, 02:23 PM

14. But he wasn't put on death row for that.

 

A life is an important thing to take. When being tried for murder you aren't on trial for every bad thing you've ever done. I'm just saying I think that's part of profiling. He may have done some bad things and that's why it was easier for the first domino to fall when accusing him of this murder. He wanted a DNA test and it wasn't given to him. Innocent people want DNA tests. Yes so do people who are extinguishing their last hopes but ALSO do INNOCENT people. And who are any of us to keep him from one when his life depends on it. A possible life that is innocent of the crime it is being taken for.

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Response to The99thTimeLord (Reply #14)

Fri Apr 21, 2017, 02:27 PM

15. "But he wasn't put on death row for that."

I did not say or insinuate he was.

"When being tried for murder you aren't on trial for every bad thing you've ever done."

I did not say or insinuate that was the case.

Very strange response.

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Response to NCTraveler (Reply #15)

Fri Apr 21, 2017, 02:30 PM

16. Then I'm confused about the relevance of you bringing this up.

 

"He is a lifer in the system. Was also found guilty of raping multiple women."

I thought you were painting a picture of him being a bad person and that it mean he was probably guilty in this case too.

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Response to The99thTimeLord (Reply #16)

Fri Apr 21, 2017, 02:32 PM

17. I was simply highlighting why is make no sense that you would compare yourself to him.

It was very obvious.

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Response to NCTraveler (Reply #17)

Fri Apr 21, 2017, 02:41 PM

18. Well that's my point. The comparison is to say he may have not done it. I've never killed anybody.

 

And IF he is innocent than he hasn't either. To which the similarities between how he was acting and how I see myself acting if I were in his shoes, would be validated.

Now, we'll never know, I get it, but that's why I didn't make a definitive statement in the OP. I said "I'm not sure we didn't put an innocent man to death". And I or you or any of us will never know. Because the DNA tests were denied.

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Response to The99thTimeLord (Original post)

Fri Apr 21, 2017, 02:10 PM

9. Gee, I wonder if he was black?

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Response to Eliot Rosewater (Reply #9)

Fri Apr 21, 2017, 02:53 PM

19. From pictures 4 of the 8 Arkansas is trying to murder

Are black and 4 are white. Ledel Lee is black, but in this case, it's oddly not a majority black men.

That said, the death penalty is stupid and fraught with errors, not to mention being morally wrong.

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Response to The99thTimeLord (Original post)

Fri Apr 21, 2017, 03:10 PM

20. One of many reasons to be against the DP

Prosecutors want convictions and if they get them, they don't want to back down. Ever. The way they live with themselves is the conceit that they can't be wrong because they got a jury to agree with them.

When innocence is established after the fact, that is especially tragic.

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Response to Warpy (Reply #20)

Fri Apr 21, 2017, 03:19 PM

21. In order to find out when we got something wrong,

 

we first have to be willing to ask ourselves the question "What may we have gotten wrong"? If you're unwilling to ask that, like these prosecutors once they gain a convention, (and they truly don't ask this question of themselves, neither after the person is put to death or more importantly while they're still alive while there's time they can do something about it) there should be no one put to death.

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