With "friends" ***ahem:Bernie*** like these, who needs enemies? (tweet and link)

[tallahasseedem]

Link to tweet

https://www.wsj.com/articles/democrats-reload-for-georgia-runoff-but-party-divisions-remain-1492626238?tesla=y

With "friends" like these who needs enemies? Ask Hillary, she can tell you.

[Eliot Rosewater]

1. FUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKK

Sorry but this does NOT surprise me AT ALL

[tallahasseedem]

2. Yep.

My blood is boiling.

We are in for the fight of our lives down there...a true chance to turn the tide. And now this? This is it folks.

[Skittles]

7. I'll add the YOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUU

ugh

it does not surprise me, either

[tallahasseedem]

8. +1

[ehrnst]

33. Seconded. (nt)

[DesertRat]

90. Amen!

[calimary]

105. I'll add a VERY MUCH!

This is extremely disappointing.

[Hortensis]

109. Thing is, WHY does he know nothing about this man who's been

in the news for weeks and could become a voter in Bernie's Congress? This isn't an isolated gap in knowledge. Revelations about all the things about his political, economic, and governmental world that Bernie doesn't know have been showing up ever since he stepped forward when Elizabeth Warren declined to run.

[pnwmom]

124. And meanwhile, he WILL be campaigning for anti-abortion Dem Heath Mello.

How come that guy is progressive enough for Bernie, but he won't even look into Ossoff?

[Hortensis]

146. Wanna bet Mello ardently sought Sanders support

and Ossoff did not? Sanders has a very long established record of rejecting people who do not promise to be with him on all things.

Reminds me, when he was first elected to congress he rejected the entire Democratic progressive caucus as unworthy. And vice versa. Lol. I read that the caucus leader, who had been very glad to be getting another progressive, was steaming after just a few minutes with him. Come to think of it, a quarter century later the 2016 progressive caucus refused to endorse him and endorsed Hillary. Same dynamic, new decade.

[JTFrog]

178. I'm with you. nt

[Gothmog]

140. It does not surprise me either

[bettyellen]

3. He doesn't do his homework, does he? Narrow curriculum which we all know by heart....

[tallahasseedem]

4. Nope.

Here are a few things our rising Democrat is for:

A woman’s right to choose
Support of small businesses
Fixing and expanding on Obamacare
Protecting civil liberties
Protecting Medicare and Social Security
Criminal justice reform

[bettyellen]

5. It's one thing to say you'll vote along w others... quite another to be a vocal

Advocate- to really know what's going on - and to make it a priority and get things done. Instead of saying it's NOT a priority or NOT a problem.

[ehrnst]

35. Well, that doesn't sound "flexible" does it?

I mean, we have to forge a new, different path after that "failure" in November....

"Identity issues" aren't those "universal" issues that just don't really concern white straight rust belt men, whose approval has been shown clearly to be the future of our party.

He needs to get with the "program" it appears.

[Eliot Rosewater]

56. Unless he is about an all together different program that

none of us are aware of.

[ehrnst]

63. I've often wondered that very thing. (nt)

[Hortensis]

117. Maybe not all about, but the fact that he was

totally unable to explain to two editorial boards the various ways he might accomplish his stated goals really, really made me wonder. And still does. That and that he's always acknowledged being much farther left than even most Democrats, while his stated goals are really just mainstream liberal thought on a different time table.

Btw, this all reminds me of when nobody was particularly concerned that W couldn't state his official positions on important issues in a debate because no one really believed they were his positions. omehow that was okay. Even their own voters don't expect Republican leaders to be honest with them.

[NastyRiffraff]

97. What "rising Democrat"?

He's not a Democrat. It's not me saying that, it's Sanders himself. I know on DU we're supposed to pretend he's a real Democrat, but I take him at his word. He isn't.

[tallahasseedem]

123. I meant our new Georgia guy...

Trust me, I'm with you on Bernie!

[NastyRiffraff]

192. Sorry!

I really misread your post. Mea culpa!

[boston bean]

10. What he is preaching doesn't make sense, imho.

He demands dems chase conservative voters. Then he hold dems to purity tests of his progressivism.

Seems like he wants to hold the the party hostage to himself.

[tallahasseedem]

11. He LOVES the attention...

although it's mostly false idol material.

[ehrnst]

73. Get. Out.

He's not got a shred of ego in that body that is as spry as someone half his age!

Didn't you understand the significance of that bird??

[brush]

148. Being "different" gains that attention.

Kind of reminds me of some black republicans who want to stand out from the crowd.

"I'm not a Democrat and I never will be.

I'm different from those people.

I'm a republican. Look at me, look at me."

[bettyellen]

17. It's a reflection on his values and priorities...

[boston bean]

84. I understand and they are at odds with some of my democratic values.

[ehrnst]

38. SHHHHHHHH!!!!!!!!!

Thoughtcrime!!!!!

[NCTraveler]

43. He knows his base. Nt

[Gothmog]

141. I so agree with Boston Bean on this

What Sanders has been preaching makes no sense

[brush]

149. Dems partnering with Bernie is a wash

His ideas are good but he cancels them out with the constant put downs of Dems.

[skylucy]

6. Geez. That is not helpful.

[Squinch]

9. I have to say, all this controversy roiling around Sanders, and I really don't see any good things

coming from him. He's just a lot ado about nothing.

I truly don't get the adulation. He's got lots of nice sound bites, but he just never gets anything done.

[tallahasseedem]

13. And has never written an in depth

policy paper explaining how he is going to get his "rally applause lines" accomplished.

[Squinch]

16. I don't see any evidence that he has ever gotten past proposing great sounding legislation that has

no chance whatsoever of getting passed.

[ehrnst]

101. But wait! He tacks on amendments to legislation

other people worked together to create.

[tallahasseedem]

156. That's his total Modus Operandi....

It's quite ridiculous for a career politician. He should know how to craft something more than a name change of a building.

[Expecting Rain]

12. The roadshow should end.

No more taking Bernie Sanders on the road so he can tear down a party to which he doesn't belong.

[tallahasseedem]

15. Agreed...

It's starting to make us look ridiculous. There are other Independent minds out there that can articulate what we as a party can do to expand the base.

[Eliot Rosewater]

59. So so much more to this than that.

Year after year, once a week he and Thom go on and on about how bad the Democratic Party is.

They both criticize the dem party as much as they do the repub party.

Thom on RT. This last thing with Bernie.

You dont want to know what I think.

[ehrnst]

102. But the crowds... those crowds....

Think of the crowds.....

[tallahasseedem]

157. And the birds!

One random bird needed to either take a shit or a short rest and the reaction was akin to Mother Mary appearing on a piece of toast. Get back to me if a damn Bald Eagle lands.

[ehrnst]

180. But it had SO much MEANING.

If it had landed on her podium, well, you know... birdseed, trained magician bird...

[calimary]

177. Welcome to DU, Expecting Rain!

Earlier I felt that the optics were beneficial. Tom Perez and Bernie Sanders together, and what that visually symbolized. But the more I think about this, you may just have made a very credible point.

I still do have a problem with that, as a lifelong loyal Democrat. Gotta say it. I have a BIG problem with that. And his continuing to tear the Democratic Party down does NOTHING to bring us all together to fight as a united front. I don't know why he insists on being so divisive. What does that do, really? In practicality? Except maybe to alienate a voter like me, who HAD previously viewed him positively. I thought he was divisive then, and I think he's STILL divisive now.

My mother did that. Just nonstop fault-finding. Nonstop criticism. NEVER satisfied with me, or what I did or I was NEVER good enough. NEVER thin enough. NEVER neat and tidy enough. NEVER well-enough dressed. It didn't endear me to her or make me more open to what she said. Just hurt me and alienated me and made me want to get away from her.

[ismnotwasm]

14. Jesus

That's just fucked up.

[JHan]

18. So selective purity tests for those he likes?

alrighty then.

[ehrnst]

25. I guess Planned Parenthood and NARAL

Just don't get what "100% pro-choice" means.

Good to know....

[mcar]

31. ...

[sheshe2]

34. Mello is not someone I would throw my weight behind.

He is fricking pro-life!

[JHan]

53. Pragmatism is fine when he deems it so

That's the litmus test here. Yet it is constantly being denied.

[ehrnst]

71. But he knows best, doesn't he?

Those that don't agree, don't "understand" what is really in their own best interests.

It's such a burden, and he bears it so willing for us.....

[sheshe2]

72. Disturbing.

[JHan]

74. I've no problem with pragmatism, I just hate hypocrisy over it.

Even though Mello's ultrasound stunt is reprehensible.

[sheshe2]

85. Yes...

I just posted my feelings about that below. Man need to take themselves the hell out of our business.

[Eliot Rosewater]

61. And please dont use that term, that is THEIR term, they are anything but "pro-life"

and I know you know that but we should NEVER let them frame the debate.

Anti-woman is what they are. I say this with the utmost respect because I know you know this and agree.

[sheshe2]

83. Yes..

It is anti-woman and I came close to snapping at you before I read your post a second time.

What bothers me the most about this Mello person is the law that he sponsored to have women view their sonograms before being allowed...ALLOWED an abortion. The most difficult decision a woman has to make and he wants to add to their pain and suffering. That is cruel and unusual treatment. Her Body Her Choice full stop.

[ehrnst]

104. Any politician that directly contradicts the medical profession on

what is in the best interests of women and public health is suspect in their judgement.

And that goes for politicians who call women's reproductive health a "social issue" that can be negotiated away...

[sheshe2]

108. To hell with that!

We will not NE-GO-TI-ATE!

[Eliot Rosewater]

193. "American Crime" a tv series is highlighting the issue of abortion in North Carolina and

divorce as well as abuse of immigrants.

If accurate, and usually tv shows are not but I bet this is, in NC you cant get a divorce until you go through a one year legal separation during which time the spouse who makes the most money does NOT have to support the other spouse.

Tailor made to make sure most women CANT leave their husbands unless the husband lets them.

Sure there are more women now making money than in the past, but can you fucking believe this?

[sheshe2]

196. It's

tailor made to keep women in the hands of their abusers. I guess they think they are better off dead than divorced! JHC! Just when I think I could not get any angrier!

Fuck NC and the GOP!

[brush]

152. Right! Doesn't seem he would pass the progressive purity test yet he get's Sanders' backing.

Last edited Thu Apr 20, 2017, 10:52 AM - Edit history (2)

HTF does a progressive back a pro-lifer?

What is it, the first three letters in their descriptions being the same — p-r-o — that makes it ok for the sainted, far-left one to campaign for a guy who seeks to deny women control of their own bodies?

trump world must be bizarro world too where black is white and up is down and progressives back males who want to control women's bodies.

[ehrnst]

185. Because BS has dismissed abortion rights as a "social issue"

not a health care issue, which then makes it something further down on the priority list, and can be dealt away for concessions on other more "universal" issues.

Forget the basic human rights issue that childbearing is, the fact that he will contradict/ignore what the mainstream medical community has stated is a public health issue - as few obstacles to abortion as possible - shows me that he's not open to data that refutes his particular dogma.

[tallahasseedem]

136. Holy crap...

I missed this one. Thank you for posting!!!

[Gothmog]

143. HRC and Planned Parenthood endorsed Hillary Clinton

Sanders evidently does not support the right to choose or Planned Parenthood since PP endorsed Clinton

[ehrnst]

184. In a presidential primary, you choose only one candidate to endorse

So, not the same thing at all.

Planned Parenthood often supports multiple candidates for various state and local races - just not ones that are running against each other.

And Bernie certainly dismissed PP with the damning "establishment group" in an effort to explain why they could possibly have decided that HRC's record on choice was better than his.

In the light of certain recent statements that he would be "flexible" on abortion, that lack of endorsement is even less surprising.

[JCanete]

19. and? I'm not prepared to back just any democrat with a D either, and according to these boards,

neither is anybody, depending on the dem.

He was honest and said he didn't know Ossoff, and wasn't prepared to promote him while lacking that knowledge. Sounds responsible to me. As to whether or not he should have gotten to know him, I think the question is what is his Sander's criteria for getting to know a politician? and if there is a part of a politician's positions that Sanders is particularly concerned about, does it take longer for him to make up his mind?

Ossoff is supposed to be a referendum on Trump, and in that sense, I hope he wins. I'm not totally comfortable with his stance on big-industry and working together with it...on the other hand he has a business that actually goes after corporate corruption. He's also apparently, in favor of securing the borders, and I'll grant that that's fairly middling talk, and not at all the same as "build a wall," but there's a lot of innuendo in what he says that suggests that those who come here illegally are not hard working people who "play by the rules."

[JHan]

21. Heath Mello's stance on abortion didn't stop him giving an enthusiastic endorsement.

and the Georgia race is not a secret, it defies belief that any political junkie, or head of Democratic Outreach, would not know of Ossof at this point.

[ehrnst]

26. Pro-choice Dems just need to be "more flexible" on that.

Because, you know....

[JCanete]

40. I clarified that his definition for knowing the candidate might focus on certain politics. Even if

he has concerns, he hasn't refused to endorse Ossoff, he just has of yet not done so. As to Mello, I'm still doing research...(saw your other post). Its a stupid vote, its a stupid position. We know that Sanders thinks the economic issues is how we can break through this red blue division though, and I think that is the right way to start eroding some backwards ideas...the money sells them because they are divisive...target the money and tie their efforts to their actual agenda and it will be harder for them to do what they do... but that doesn't change the fact that we should not be pandering to politicians who aren't good on certain issues.

I for one have never claimed that Sanders is perfect, or that I agree 100% with his judgement on all issues. People do make mistakes. I excuse Clinton for many as well, or in both cases, take them for who they are. The DNC according to Perez, has also supported Mello, so if Sanders is throwing women under the bus, so is the party at large, but again, that doesn't excuse Sanders choice here. I just want to know more about Mello before I come down prematurely hard on it.

[JHan]

49. He is head of democratic outreach

Why are you making excuses for this? Why did he inject the progressive quip as conditional on support yet has no problem with Mello? what more research do you need? The issue for me isn't his support of Mello, is the inconsistency of his views - in mello's case he is pragmatic but he's indirectly applying a purity test to Ossof. It's obvious.

[JCanete]

62. like I said, I don't excuse Mello's vote, and I don't support supporting candidates who are still

pandering to things like pro-life. That said, it is not hard to see that Sanders might diverge from me here because on one issue, he thinks it is non-negotiable because he thinks all things follow from it, and the other is more so because again, he thinks that shell has to be cracked to do the other work.

As to Ossoff, apparently something makes Sanders uneasy on the things he feels are entirely non-negotiable. I disagree with him finding pro-life candidates negotiable, but I don't disagree with him being reticent to lend his support to candidates that he might have doubts about in those areas. I'm not excusing it because I think it harms his ability to appeal to us in this party, even if he thinks its taking us in the right direction long-term, and of course, if this person is ever needed to make a difference on an anti-choice vote, that could be disastrous for people, even if we move in the right direction long term.

What more I need is to actually find that vote, his reasoning and his stance now. I haven't found any of that yet...chock it up to shitty internet skills...off to work, but will look later.

[JHan]

70. If he wants to be selective in his support,,

Why is he head of outreach? there's no way to spin this J. im learning to not care anymore what he does but there is no way to justify the inconsistency. It is an inconsistency period. I don't think a Sanders endorsement matters in Goergia anyway but that is also not the point.

[JCanete]

179. Well I guess that depends on the job he's doing heading outreach, which in my opinion, should

be about selling the message, not necessarily peddling brand first, content second. I think it matters when you're doing outreach that you don't seem like you are a shill. To differ from some people in the democratic party and from some of the party's choices , even while you are performing outreach, makes your voice sound more authentic, more circumspect. We need to get these ideas to people, and at the same time, show them that what they're being sold by their own Senators and congress-people is a pile of shit. I think he is putting discourse out there that will make it easier for progressives to court people in these communities. , but we shall definitely see.

It isn't inconsistent to endorse one candidate and not another though. One is being endorsed for reasons, just as the other is not being endorsed for different reasons. That's assuming that Sanders may know Ossoff better than he states, and was choosing a diplomatic way of discussing the candidate at this time, but that's all speculation. The question here is not on consistency, but on whether or not Sanders is too willing to compromise on pro-choice messaging for the sake of those issues he thinks most dear. I don't personally think he should be endorsing said candidates. I'm okay with the endorsement of Parriello, but if Mello is voting for forced ultra-sounds and hasn't come around on that kind of decision, that is draconian.

That however is more questionable in the context of his vote.

https://www.dailykos.com/story/2017/04/20/1654527/-Heath-Mello-abortion-ultrasound-and-Bernie-Sanders

This writer goes into detail pointing out Mello's record with Planned Parenthood, as well as this vote apparently being a compromise to stave off even more invasive, Constitutionally indifferent legislation. Also, apparently, the wording is not at all as is being described. Note: I didn't read this legislation myself, so this is all preliminary for me....
but it appears to be the case, that if an ultrasound is done for whatever reasons, the screen must be tilted so that the patient can see the screen, and any questions must be answered.

This is almost certainly pro-life passive-aggression, but as the law states, I'm not sure if there is anything that says "before a woman has an abortion, an ultrasound must be done and she must view it." If I'm incorrect, and you have better information let me know.

[KittyWampus]

57. He is in charge of Democratic OUTREACH. If he doesn't know who Ossoff is, he must live at the bottom

of a well.

[KPN]

107. Yeah, it's supposed to be, but here at DU it appears Ossoff is ...

a referendum on Bernie.

This war is foolish. But maybe it's something we in the Democratic Party have to go through.

Frankly, Bernie's words tend to resonate with me. I share a lot of his views policy-wise. I hope we become more progressive, especially on the economic front. In my view, he's helping us do that. I say us as a 45 year registered Democrat.

[tallahasseedem]

161. Since he can't back up his "economic front" with actual theories, facts, figures,

and basic common sense. Maybe you'd like to take a stab at it?

[KPN]

191. Sure, its called demand-side economics. Pretty simple.

It's also called "fair trade" to protect American jobs which actually falls within the demand-side umbrella as do most of his economic positions.

So, do you have a point or are you just trying to be argumentative here? Do you have something about Bernie's positions that you disagree with and can explain?

[tallahasseedem]

160. He has none...well maybe if the person kisses his ring and begs for attention.

and who in the hell is totally comfortable with anyone who runs for office. If you want it all your way, then run. But guess what? You wouldn't be properly representing those who elected you. But hey, that other woman would be SOOOO much better right?

[yodermon]

20. Wow. Ossoff must've taken money from billionaires. or something.

This is unhelpful. Hope he comes around and campaigns for him in June.

[ehrnst]

32. Hope's a thing with feathers

That doesn't tolerate ANY disagreement with the TRUE PROGRESSIVE AGENDA AS HAS BEEN DETERMINED.

Get WITH THE PROGRAM.

[comradebillyboy]

54. I don't think Bernie would be a asset in Georgia, just as well he

ignores this race. I think Ossoff will win on his own.

[Eliot Rosewater]

65. Bullshit.

[comradebillyboy]

94. What? You don't think Ossoff can beat Karen Handel?

Her electoral track record is awful.

[tallahasseedem]

158. You're right...

Bernie not trying to help is total bullshit.

[renegade000]

22. The expressed attitude about being a "progressive" is rather unhelpful, IMHO

Being a "progressive" should be a label that is inclusive and conducive toward building a big tent of people who agree on moving forward in the general direction of "progress" along a broad-spectrum of economic and social justice issues. Doesn't mean everyone agrees on the exact details.
It shouldn't be a frickin' "seal of approval" by a specific person/faction.

[JHan]

27. beautifully stated. ++++

[ehrnst]

28. Good luck with that.... (nt)

[ehrnst]

44. If "helpful" doesn't advance one's personal political goals

And one is certain of one's own lack of any flaws whatsoever, then why should one bother?

[renegade000]

55. To be fair to Sanders, the WSJ reporter set him up with the question...

Though I wish he'd be more aware about the implications of what he was saying. Surely, if he were president, he would greatly prefer to have Jon Ossof representing GA-06 vs. any modern Republican.

[Squinch]

125. He's been a politician for 40 years. He should know how to steer an interview by now.

[tallahasseedem]

163. Are you seriously using the "Gotcha Question" defense?

Holy SHEEEEET!!!!

[ehrnst]

181. The definition seems to have morphed into the thumbs up or down of one person

[ehrnst]

23. There will be NO DISSENT!!!!!

NONE!!! At ALL!!!

[Txbluedog]

24. Not surprised by this

He and his comrade in London Corbyn are cut from the same cloth. All bluster and no substance

[mcar]

29. A purity test in this conservative district?

Not helpful.

[uponit7771]

30. wow

[sheshe2]

36. This is not good news at all.

[Quixote1818]

37. Sanders has to be careful here. Had he said "Yes he is a progressive" then the right would have

screamed "Look he is a Bernie Sanders progressive socialist". This is a very conservative district and Trump is already attacking Ossoff for being too liberal.

Not sure what the point of this thread is. We are talking about Georgia here not liberal Massachusetts or Vermont. The Conservative WSJ wanted Sanders to say he was a progressive so they could have used it against him. Think about it, why would a conservative paper go to Sanders for comment? To find a way to hurt Ossoff!


The ads against him say: LOOK HE IS A PROGRESSIVE

[ehrnst]

46. Apparently what Vermont is concerned with

is "universal," and that which does not worry them are "identity issues."

[Donkees]

68. Your post containing the ad should be its own thread for better exposure.

[Quixote1818]

81. Your welcome to post it.

Feel free. I need to run but I agree it needs more exposure.

[Squinch]

120. Sanders could have said, "This is the guy you should vote for in this election." But no. He has

to throw the guy under the bus, even after he admits that he knows nothing about him.

[wildeyed]

39. I'm going back to mostly ignoring the guy.

It's just Bernie being Bernie. He caucuses with the Dems, which is good. He seems to speak for a subset of the Democratic coalition. Because this is a democracy and we need those votes, I listen up to a point. But when he comes up with this type of nonsense. I just tune out. He doesn't care about electoral math. He is not going to change. It is what it is. I don't see any point in getting exercised about it anymore.

Would his support even help in Ossoff's district? I don't know details about that district, but my sense is that these are affluent business Republican types. It's the South. I doubt they are big Bernie fans. His support might even be a negative there.

[JHan]

58. Good advice

[Tarheel_Dem]

82. I should've read your post before posting my own. But I agree. It would hurt more than help.

[wildeyed]

162. Another NCer would understand.

Sanders didn't do so well down here, even with actual Democrats.

[Quixote1818]

88. The conservative WSJ was hoping Bernie would have said he was Progressive

The whole thing was a setup. Go to the most liberal senator and have him say you are "Progressive". Bam! WSJ and all the conservative sites run with: Socialist Sanders calls Ossoff a progressive!

In one of the most conservative states and a conservative district.

[wildeyed]

159. Ah, that makes sense.

[Baitball Blogger]

41. I'm just wondering why no one thought to lobby Bernie through petition?

Think maybe it's worth a shot now?

[ehrnst]

48. If it doesn't worry Vermont, why would the Vermont Senator pay attention

Then again, if the Senator is down 12 points in approval rating, and up 9 points in disapproval ratings, maybe the Senator should pay more attention to what Vermont pays him to do for them in DC.

[Baitball Blogger]

51. How much time does it take to endorse someone?

If Bernie is serious about running for president again, I don't see why he couldn't take five minutes out of his busy schedule.

[ehrnst]

69. But there are so many in the Democratic party that need to be schooled

on what "progressive" truly means, and where they need to be flexible on identity issues.

This consumes the Senator's time - and it's so important that even losing 12 points in his approval rating, and gaining 9 points in his dissapsroval rating among his constituents must be endured.

But he knows they understand and will continue to give him the political office that he is entitled to.

[Baitball Blogger]

75. I don't see where he would have anything to gain if the Georgia Dem is progressive.

If he's not progressive, then I would understand the point that Bernie is trying to make.

[ehrnst]

77. It depends on who decides what is "progressive" and what is

being a "corporate shill."

Because apparently now, you are one or the other, and only one is qualified to determine which a particular candidate is.

[Me.]

42. He Is As He's Always Been

A guy whose main priority is himself and always has been. Fine...but who, besides himself apparently, made him judge & jury of everyone else?

[ehrnst]

52. People who don't live in his home state,

but match the demographic of his home state.

When one represents a tiny, demographically homogenous population, it's easy to continue to represent the interests of that sliver of the population, and assume that when others of that demographic outside that home state praise one, that one has a much greater appeal than one has that is necessary to represent a much more diverse population.

[Me.]

64. True

[Little Star]

45. I'm not one bit surprised.

[ProfessorGAC]

47. He's Not The Enemy

No wonder the masses don't know why they should vote Dem
We make up reasons to hate our own
Yeah, that'll work

[ehrnst]

60. The "masses"?

Sanders: I don't consider myself a Democrat
Sen. Bernie Sanders (I-Vt.) said Tuesday night that he still does not consider himself a Democrat despite taking part in a Democratic National Committee (DNC) unity tour with the party's new chairman, Tom Perez.

http://thehill.com/homenews/campaign/329418-sanders-i-do-not-consider-myself-a-democrat

Yeah, that'll work getting those "masses" you speak of to "vote Dem"

Perhaps dismissing those that dissent in any way from his narrow definition of "progressive" are dismissed as "corporate shills" is what's "not gonna work."

[Squinch]

127. He's not a friend either, with this kind of ridiculousness.

[tallahasseedem]

168. Anyone who feels women's rights are negotiable

is the fucking enemy.

[liberal N proud]

50. He is lost to me, will never get my support

He still does not act like a Democrat.

[yallerdawg]

66. This rejection of Sanders is not very promising for progressive unity.

I guess if we want free college, free healthcare and at least $15 per hour, we'll have to move to Vermont - it just doesn't seem all that popular anywhere else.

[ehrnst]

89. Single payer failed in Vermont

So "wanting it" doesn't neccessarily make it something that is possible, or practical.

Also - there is no "free" healthcare or college, because people don't work for free in healthcare or education, so there's that bit of messaging that falls short. (Focus groups found that "free college" landed better with millennials than "debt free college" so that explains why that messaging was used.)

It's about funding mechanisms, and Bernie doesn't listen to people who don't walk lockstep with his ideas (see recent vilification of anyone that didn't vote for a symbolic amendment on drug prices that he supported, when there were entire laws that were in line to address the issue), so he will tolerate no discussion of other funding mechanisms that developed countries use that aren't single payer. Even Medicare isn't single payer, and looks nothing like what Bernie described as "Medicare for All." I won't go into details here, but I know whereof I speak.

There is much to be said for realism. Boring, yes. Galvanizing of large groups of people, no. But as Obama showed, slow steady progress using "establishment" methods such as legislation instead of executive orders makes lasting progress.

It's not that I reject what Sanders "wants" but his rigidity, his lack of ability to learn or listen to non-partisan experts on health policy. That puts him (for me) in the same category as anti-choice politicians who cling to the idea that eliminating Planned Parenthood will eliminate abortion.

When Bernie dismissed abortion and marriage equaltiy as a "social issue" that Dems should be "flexible" on, he completely lost me - and that was in 2013.

So no, I don't consider that "progressive" as much as white straight male lefty, especially when a politician disses Planned Parenthood and the Black Congressional Caucus as "establishment groups," when they have the nerve not to endorse him.

Pro-choice advocates and people of color are very important progressive coalitions, and any 'revolution' that doesn't consider them allies isn't really "progressive," but rolls us back decades.

No superficial "unity" is worth that.

[yallerdawg]

91. OK. Vermont isn't "the land of milk and honey."

At least they have a minimum $15 an hour!

Right?

[ehrnst]

98. No, Vermont minimum wage is $10 an hour.

http://www.burlingtonfreepress.com/story/money/2017/01/01/vermont-minimum-wage-increases-january-1/96055386/

I'm curious as to why you thought it was $15 an hour.

In any case, I agree - if you want what the small, white lefty population wants, then move to Vermont. If you don't, or aren't maybe not so much.
http://www.thedailybeast.com/articles/2016/02/17/vermont-s-black-leaders-we-were-invisible-to-bernie-sanders.html

That's why credit card companies moved to Delaware - they are a small white right wing population that gives cc companies what they want.

That's the thing - if you are going to be a leader of a very diverse group, which the Democratic party is, you don't waltz in and tell them that they should put that diversity on the back burner in order to appeal to white straight men, and expect them to line up behind you.

You could move to Delaware or be Libertarian or Republican and do that.

When people used to get married, the "two become one" meant you became the man - that's "unity" but a destructive force. Democrats are a party of loosely aligned coalitions that work together towards social justice. It may not be lockstep (which makes for a very dynamic campaign), but it is unity with a diverse vision.

[Heartstrings]

128. The negativity toward this warrior is appalling to me...

[Cha]

134. The "negativity" BS shows towards the Democratic Party is

fucking "appalling" to me.

BS insults the Democratic Party with "feeble" and "can't fight back"on Rachel's Show and "..the Democratic Party of the elite" in Boston with Senator Warren..

When ssarandon is the Elitist..

Who suckered the LOW INFORMATION voters with LIES like these..

"The prominent Sanders backer also predicted that a Hillary Clinton indictment was "inevitable"

Susan Sarandon: Hillary Clinton more dangerous than Donald Trump

http://www.salon.com/2016/06/03/susan_sarandon_hillary_clinton_more_dangerous_than_donald_trump/

poor ssarandon "had to change her phone number.." while the rest of the country that isn't so well off have to worry about this among other trumpshite..

Link to tweet

[tallahasseedem]

166. I think your computer autocorrected to warrior instead of weasel.

No biggie.

[tallahasseedem]

167. Don't move just yet...

you might be surprised that savior can't get it done there either.

[flamingdem]

67. Here's a reason for why Bernie laid low on Ossoff

** So why should he say if Ossoff is progressive, it would NOT help him so he kept his mouth shut

http://www.myajc.com/news/state--regional-govt--politics/newcomer-with-war-chest-gives-democrats-hope-georgia-6th-district/m6cqizE9Ie0UYX1wHPjC1M/

There’s also support from the left-leaning Daily Kos website, which so far has raised nearly $1 million for Ossoff.

That’s painted something of a bull’s-eye on Ossoff’s back. No leading GOP contender has directly confronted him, but the National Republican Congressional Committee painted the Democrat as a “far-left Bernie Sanders guy.” (Ossoff, for his part, said he backed Hillary Clinton.)

[Quixote1818]

76. Of course. This is fricking Georgia for Christ sake.

Look at the ads against him:

[flamingdem]

96. Wow! Now the biggest cities in the USA are suspect

foolz

Glad Bernie didn't take the bait

[retrowire]

99. And look at all the Bernie bashers go!!!

Come on Dems, we don't jump to conclusions right?

[alarimer]

188. Oh, not at all.

I've had enough of it myself.

Sanders would not be helpful to Ossoff, so he's staying away. Simple. The main thing there is to tie Handel to Trump.

But of course it's yet another excuse to bash Bernie. I'm sick of it. Democrats are about shooting their nose off to spite their face. Ignoring the lessons of the past 30+ years will doom them to failure. Sanders is saying pretty much the same things as Warren, yet he is accused of profiting from this and she isn't, though both have books to sell. I don't get it. I like both of them. More and more people are not affiliated with either party and a fair number of those (almost half, the last I checked) are liberal-leaning. So it makes sense for Sanders to be out there in some capacity.

[retrowire]

189. Well said

The difference between Sanders and Warren is one directly fought Hillary in the primaries and some people can't let the primaries go.

[swag]

78. Such a bellowing narcissist.

"During an interview with MSNBC’s Chris Hayes, the Vermont senator was asked if he identifies as a member of the Democratic Party after running to be the party’s presidential nominee.

'No, I’m an Independent,' Sanders responded."

https://heatst.com/politics/man-who-wanted-to-be-democrats-presidential-nominee-im-not-a-democrat/

[WomenRising2017]

79. Not helpful, Bernie.

[Tarheel_Dem]

80. In this district, Osoff may be better off without his help. BS didn't do well in the South. n/t

[JHan]

86. That's true. Hell who knows, maybe it was political brilliance on his part

To not associate himself. If I were him I'd have just made a comment like "Ossof is a fine democrat" and leave it at that, but "democrat" gets sledged based on conditionals. It's just odd.

[uponit7771]

112. +1

[flamingdem]

137. +1

[Docreed2003]

87. This is just continuing to stir the crap...

This plays into the hands of those who want to continue to divide the Democrats. I supported Bernie in the primaries and I fought for Hillary in the general, it really is sad that I have to add that qualifier. Bernie has his problems, I'm not arguing that he's perfect. But he is a powerful voice right now and we need that voice. This article slams Bernie for not supporting Ossoff, well where the hell were the other lions of liberalism during this race??? You can't slam Bernie without casting shade on others as well. Folks, don't allow them to continue to pick at primary wounds and stir division amongst us.

[ehrnst]

92. I think holding people to their own standards isn't "picking wounds." (nt)

[Docreed2003]

93. Then where is the call out to all the other liberal leaders??

[ehrnst]

100. Not following you.

Who do you include in the term "liberal leaders?"

Hillary is shredded by many on the far left as trying to "own the resistance" if she dares even to give a message of support to women online.

Who else is "calling out" Democrats to task for not getting behind some state level races, while they ignore others that are very close?

[Docreed2003]

116. The whole point of the article is a slam on Bernie because he didn't go to GA...

I've yet to see any other threads here ragging on other liberal leaders for not going to GA. It's hypocrisy and it's intended to divide.

[ehrnst]

182. No - the point is that Bernie has deemed himself to be the arbiter of what is "progressive"

And he talks about (reviving a Howard Dean) "50 state strategy" and this race is vital.

And despite all the publicity surrounding this candidate, Bernie states that he "doesn't know if this candidate is progressive."

http://m.dailykos.com/story/2017/4/19/1654428/-Bernie-Sanders-Says-He-Doesn-t-Know-If-Jon-Ossoff-Is-A-Progressive

I think that's Bernie trying to avoid saying out loud that this candidate hasn't pledged allegiance to Bernie's ideas, even if the candidate is progressive in all measurable ways.

https://www.dailykos.com/story/2017/04/19/1654449/-Jon-Ossoff-on-the-issues-presented-in-a-way-Bernie-Sanders-can-understand

[KPN]

113. Exactly! But good luck with that....

... this shit's getting old. We got two sides here at DU telling each other "don't fall for the media/the right's attempts to stir division among us" ... and then we all fall for it. Too much!

[pnwmom]

126. No, he did MORE than not support Ossoff. He questioned Ossoff's progressive bona fides,

saying that just because he was a Dem didn't make him progressive.

So he was dismissive of Ossoff and of most other Dems at the same time.

[GulfCoast66]

150. No one is asking Bernie to go and campaign for the dude

But he refused to support the candidate of the Democratic Party in an interview with a national publication. That would get him kicked off DU!!!

We have all been disappointed in our lives when those we look up to let us down, and after his rejecting the Party, refusing to support ALL Democratic Party candidates despite have some kind of crazy reach-out title and even supporting an Anti-choice candidate surly you must be questioning his motives or judgement a little bit.

Have a nice evening.

[tallahasseedem]

169. He's the one saying this...this isn't a rumor.

He can have a powerful voice once he proves his views are actually worth something. If they can't work in Vermont, it's not going to work in the US. Rallies held at college campuses with free food look good on film, but come crumbling down when you actually have to back it up to people who know what they're talking about.

[NurseJackie]

95. Wow. How disappointing. Sad.

[grossproffit]

103. "Ask Hillary, she can tell you." Truer words never spoken.

I'm still angry.

[PoliticalPie]

106. I agree with Bernie, What on Ossoff's campagn page indicates he is liberal or progressive?

Last edited Wed Apr 19, 2017, 11:41 PM - Edit history (1)

Here is a link to his campaign page.

https://electjon.com/


We Democratic voters like to make fun of anyone who will vote for anyone with the (R)

[Demsrule86]

119. No I don't ...we would be way better off if we voted for the candidate with the 'D'

next to his name...and Bernie apparently backs a pro-life candidate who is not progressive.

[Plucketeer]

110. It's hard to tell

just HOW MANY U.S. Senators are participating in this thread. Can someone clue me in?

[LenaBaby61]

111. Goodness gracious ....

Bernie, omg

My poor Bernie friend complaining to me just this morning about what Bernie said yesterday about Dems.

tRumputin and his installed White House LYING like a rug about going to North Korea, and we have Bernie with what he's saying about Dems.

[marlakay]

114. Just be glad he stayed out of it

In that area only a moderate dem would have a chance in hell of winning.

All I know is if you don't stop fighting about Bernie on this site and all over online we haven't a chance of winning back anything.

Its going to take all of us! All of us....

[Cary]

115. Vote Democratic!

[BigBearJohn]

118. Tell me what possible good spewing forth all this hatred does

I'm sick of this shit.

[tallahasseedem]

164. No hatred here...

if you feel it is, then blame Bernie. He was quoted verbatim.

[pnwmom]

129. Yes, I DO know -- he is definitely a progressive. But Bernie was dismissive and implying

that he wasn't.

And while he was at it he disparaged Dems in general -- even though politics is so partisan now, that no Dem is even close to any Republican on the "spectrum."

[tallahasseedem]

170. That smell...it's like PINE!

[VOX]

186. JACK...is that you?

[tallahasseedem]

190. Certainly seems like it, no?

LOL!!!!

[VOX]

195. Indeed...it's downright RADICAL!

And that completes the checklist.

[hrmjustin]

131. Purity tests on the left lead to the right being in power.

Bad choice of words on his part.

[tallahasseedem]

171. Being a veteran DUer and all...

yeah, totally...

[Cha]

133. wow.. No Shite.. with "friends like these"..

Mahalo for this, tallahasseedem!

See this is what I'm talkin' about.. I don't even like BS.. he's too divisive.

I hope Jon Ossoff WINS in Georgia!

[GulfCoast66]

154. Cool you have actually met him

Perhaps the next time you see you can pass on a message from actual members of the Democratic Party. If he is going to go on a tour with the Democratic Party Chair and allow himself to be tagged with some kind of 'out-reach' title, then the next time a national publication ask him about a Democratic Party candidate with a chance to actually win a solid red district, perhaps he should at least have the good graces to endorse that candidate.

Not give some mealy mouth answer that makes it apparent that Bernie has some 'special' qualification the candidate must meet. And based on some of his recent endorsements it appears that the main qualification required is fealty.

I am a Democrat. I do not claim to be a socialist, a progressive or any other additional tag. I support the party platform and that should be enough.

[Gothmog]

139. Sanders needs to support Democratic candidates

The quote by Sanders is really sad and says a great deal about sanders and his lack of support for anyone other than himself.

[Gothmog]

144. The only explanation that makes sense on Sanders e-mail list is that he is preserving right to run

as a third party candidate. Sanders is keeping his options open by keeping his list secret. The JPR and BOB idiots are pushing Sanders to run as a third party and Sanders is reserving to himself the right to run as a third party candidate later. Such a run would give trump a second term

[tallahasseedem]

172. Damn, 14 posts and three weeks in...

and you think you have it all down.

He is an INDEPENDENT bashing DEMOCRATS.

This is DEMOCRATIC UNDERGROUND where we support DEMOCRATS running for office, especially in heavily Republican areas.

Maybe you missed that when you were signing up, but we don't take kindly to members from other parties trying to hijack another party for their own personal gain.

Damn, still smells like pine.....

[forjusticethunders]

200. The rules need to be changed - at this point Bernie shouldn't be under the "Democratic" umbrella.

[aikoaiko]

151. Integrity. Its why some people like Bernie so much.

He didn't know Ossoff so he couldn't comment on him.

[lunamagica]

176. Integrity? Where are Mr. Integrity tax returns? Did you honestly believe that "Jane couldn't

Last edited Thu Apr 20, 2017, 01:39 PM - Edit history (1)

find them? that was a complete lie.

[JustAnotherGen]

199. +1 she said they would release them

She lied.

[Omaha Steve]

153. Bernie Sanders & Tom Perez chairman of the DNC set to stump for Mello (D) at Baxter Arena

I will be there.

https://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1002&pid=8952326

[dlk]

155. Weasel Words

Bernie's comments sound like weasel words. Perhaps Ossoff's excellent credentials make Bernie feel somehow insecure. Theoretically, we're all on the same side.

[SaschaHM]

165. Careful now.

Wouldn't want folks to confuse you for a Russian bot smearing Bernie. I can hear someone typing away at his usual "Let's be friends...but don't question Bernie or the left post" as we speak.

[tallahasseedem]

174. Man, after being a member for 13 years and paying dues for each one...

of them. I am certainly a dedicated troll, ROFL!!!!

[KentuckyWoman]

173. When it was Obama V Hillary

I'm getting old but I distinctly remember him saying a lot of negative things about her.

And yet, she was in his admin.

Now let me tell you, I think a lot of both of them, Hillary and Barak I mean.... by no means is either a perfect human... me either. But on the whole darn good folk that I'd be proud to have represent me to the nation or the world.

I feel the same way about Bernie and Hillary. Either way I have no regrets. He's not a "friend" but a friend to people like me and mine. Imperfect - but on the whole - darn good folk.

[ehrnst]

183. Jon Ossoff on the issues, presented in a way Bernie Sanders can understand

I voted for Bernie Sanders in the 2016 Illinois presidential primary, and, while I strongly admire Bernie’s work as a U.S. Senator for the people of the State of Vermont, he acts like he has no clue what Jon Ossoff stands for.

..................................................................................

Having reviewed the “priorities” page of Ossoff’s campaign, I believe that the voters of the 6th Congressional District of Georgia have sent the most progressive electable Democratic candidate to the runoff in the special election in Jon Ossoff, and there’s room on some issues for progressives to respectfully persuade Ossoff into becoming an even more progressive candidate without needlessly dividing the Democratic Party, particularly on Social Security, Medicare, education, and the minimum wage. If elected to Congress, Ossoff would probably vote more progressively than Democrats in similar congressional districts around the country, such as Kyrsten Sinema and Josh Gottheimer.

http://m.dailykos.com/story/2017/4/19/1654428/-Bernie-Sanders-Says-He-Doesn-t-Know-If-Jon-Ossoff-Is-A-Progressive

[Kentonio]

187. Thread full of the same people jumping up to throw shit at Bernie.

Same old, same old.

[Squinch]

194. After he threw shit at a Democratic candidate who could have used his help. Yep. Same old same old.

[riderinthestorm]

197. Yup nt

[tallahasseedem]

198. Uh huh...

Democrats having a problem with an Independent shitting on their candidate...poo fling!!!

Still smells like pine.

[delisen]

201. So Sanders only support Democrats who meet his definition of 'progressive"

Has Sanders given us his definition? Please let me know.

[uponit7771]

203. Nope... Especially sense supporting pro choice is ok now... He can't pass his own purity test

[lapucelle]

202. I'm glad he's showing eeryone what he's really about.

Even WaPo is characterizing his behavior as "strange". That's never a good characterization for anyone to hear in the context of their behavior.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/the-fix/wp/2017/04/20/bernie-sanderss-strange-behavior/?utm_term=.253353fb4d49