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Wed Apr 19, 2017, 10:19 AM

40% of voters identify themselves as Independent.

Versus 30% Democratic. Bernie identifies himself as an Independent.
He says "If the Democratic party is going to succeed-and I want it to succeed,
it needs to open it's door to Independents."
Sounds smart to me.



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Reply 40% of voters identify themselves as Independent. (Original post)
panader0 Apr 2017 OP
Turbineguy Apr 2017 #1
panader0 Apr 2017 #2
calimary Apr 2017 #43
JI7 Apr 2017 #3
panader0 Apr 2017 #5
JI7 Apr 2017 #8
bettyellen Apr 2017 #59
Amishman Apr 2017 #20
Post removed Apr 2017 #4
loyalsister Apr 2017 #18
Arazi Apr 2017 #6
samnsara Apr 2017 #7
panader0 Apr 2017 #9
NCTraveler Apr 2017 #10
panader0 Apr 2017 #13
NCTraveler Apr 2017 #19
malaise Apr 2017 #11
PatsFan87 Apr 2017 #12
Wounded Bear Apr 2017 #16
PatsFan87 Apr 2017 #17
KittyWampus Apr 2017 #14
retrowire Apr 2017 #26
askyagerz Apr 2017 #53
KittyWampus Apr 2017 #54
askyagerz Apr 2017 #57
KittyWampus Apr 2017 #58
askyagerz Apr 2017 #60
NurseJackie Apr 2017 #62
askyagerz Apr 2017 #63
NurseJackie Apr 2017 #64
askyagerz Apr 2017 #65
NurseJackie Apr 2017 #66
Proud Liberal Dem Apr 2017 #72
askyagerz Apr 2017 #80
Cha Apr 2017 #83
askyagerz Apr 2017 #85
Cha Apr 2017 #87
askyagerz Apr 2017 #88
NurseJackie Apr 2017 #61
KittyWampus Apr 2017 #71
Wounded Bear Apr 2017 #15
Orrex Apr 2017 #21
FSogol Apr 2017 #34
Xolodno Apr 2017 #22
Sunlei Apr 2017 #23
retrowire Apr 2017 #24
Duppers Apr 2017 #36
Proud Liberal Dem Apr 2017 #25
KPN Apr 2017 #35
Proud Liberal Dem Apr 2017 #42
KPN Apr 2017 #82
bekkilyn Apr 2017 #27
lies Apr 2017 #29
seaglass Apr 2017 #51
KPN Apr 2017 #28
WomenRising2017 Apr 2017 #30
LanternWaste Apr 2017 #31
panader0 Apr 2017 #32
Justice Apr 2017 #33
Blue_Tires Apr 2017 #37
rogue emissary Apr 2017 #38
JHan Apr 2017 #49
seaglass Apr 2017 #50
niyad Apr 2017 #39
aikoaiko Apr 2017 #40
KittyWampus Apr 2017 #55
aikoaiko Apr 2017 #56
kentuck Apr 2017 #41
LexVegas Apr 2017 #44
Skittles Apr 2017 #84
lark Apr 2017 #45
George II Apr 2017 #46
SaschaHM Apr 2017 #47
panader0 Apr 2017 #67
George II Apr 2017 #68
panader0 Apr 2017 #70
seaglass Apr 2017 #48
Eliot Rosewater Apr 2017 #52
standingtall Apr 2017 #69
NurseJackie Apr 2017 #73
pnwmom Apr 2017 #75
pnwmom Apr 2017 #74
panader0 Apr 2017 #76
pnwmom Apr 2017 #79
Fresh_Start Apr 2017 #77
BainsBane Apr 2017 #78
MichMan Apr 2017 #81
madokie Apr 2017 #86

Response to panader0 (Original post)

Wed Apr 19, 2017, 10:22 AM

1. "independent" used to mean

"republican, but not crazy". Obviously there are a lot of dissatisfied democrats in there as well.

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Response to Turbineguy (Reply #1)

Wed Apr 19, 2017, 10:23 AM

2. Not sure where you got that definition.

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Response to panader0 (Reply #2)

Wed Apr 19, 2017, 12:32 PM

43. In my own experience, it was more like Libertarians were what republi-CONS called themselves

when they were too afraid to admit they were republi-CONS.

I found that when somebody said they were a Libertarian, that usually meant they REALLY were GOP, but just didn't want to admit it.

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Response to panader0 (Original post)

Wed Apr 19, 2017, 10:24 AM

3. most indies lean one way politically and vote like other party members

.that always vote same party. So while they may be registered independent they are still similar to party voters.

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Response to JI7 (Reply #3)

Wed Apr 19, 2017, 10:27 AM

5. I agree. Democrats need the Independents.

They are now the largest bloc of voters. To continue the needless bashing
of Independents is not a smart move.

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Response to panader0 (Reply #5)

Wed Apr 19, 2017, 10:33 AM

8. Did you just read what i said ? they are not a block of voters that are grouped together

Most of them vote like any other registered party member without being registered in the party.

There are indies who well always vote republican and there are indies who will always vote democratic.

The rest are usually which way the wind blow types.

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Response to JI7 (Reply #8)

Wed Apr 19, 2017, 01:54 PM

59. That what I read too- that except for an outlier here and there they reliably vote w either party.

 

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Response to JI7 (Reply #3)

Wed Apr 19, 2017, 11:32 AM

20. I'd say a lot of Indies have a pet issue that is at odds with their other beliefs

My one sister-in-law is pretty conservative but is strongly pro-choice and tends to vote that issue as it means more to her than her conservative values. Remove abortion from the political spectrum and she'd be a Republican (anti gay rights, anti pot, anti immigrant)

Her husband is pretty liberal but is a total gun nut. He votes that issue despite being pro-choice, pro-union, and wanting single payor.

Pretty sure both are registered independents (I know he is after last year's griping over PAs closed primaries)

Independents might vote one way because of their top issue but their overall beliefs may put them at odds with the two party platforms.

(And yes, my sister-in-law and her hubby are fun to talk politics with over a bottle or two of wine)

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Response to panader0 (Original post)


Response to Post removed (Reply #4)

Wed Apr 19, 2017, 11:28 AM

18. It also may mean giving the a candidate and or party their vote

but not their money. The solicitous mailings are relentless and the DNC fear mongering last year was a total turn off. Party strategy could easily come across as harassment.

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Response to panader0 (Original post)

Wed Apr 19, 2017, 10:31 AM

6. Yup. I actually think Bernie is 100% correct to identify as Independent

While caucusing and voting with the Dems and being on the Dem leadership team. It shows we're a big tent and Indies are welcome.

We need every vote

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Response to panader0 (Original post)

Wed Apr 19, 2017, 10:32 AM

7. i used to be independant until....

....Newt Gingrich's 'contract on America'. After that I vowed to always vote straight D. We are a two party system we have to make a choice....we cant afford to be wishy washy anymore.

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Response to samnsara (Reply #7)

Wed Apr 19, 2017, 11:16 AM

9. I have always voted Democratic. I'm 66 and have voted

in every election. Democrats NEED Independents. It's that simple.
My parents were Democrats, my grandparents were Democrats.
It runs in the family. But the political climate has shifted. 40% of voters
identify as Independents.

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Response to panader0 (Original post)

Wed Apr 19, 2017, 11:17 AM

10. Can you split that 40% into left v right?

 

Seems to be a very important metric for the case you are making.

Additionally, I'm an independent.

You are attempting to make a serious minority sound as if they are in the majority.

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Response to panader0 (Reply #13)

Wed Apr 19, 2017, 11:29 AM

19. You avoided the answer.

 

You made the argument. I have no interest in going after the Glenn Beck vote.

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Response to panader0 (Original post)

Wed Apr 19, 2017, 11:18 AM

11. Very smart

but as we can see not everyone agrees

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Response to panader0 (Original post)

Wed Apr 19, 2017, 11:19 AM

12. It seems like there's even more independents up here in New England.

Perhaps that's one of the reasons why I like the idea of open primaries. I don't think it makes sense to exclude them from the primary and then beg for their votes in the general.

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Response to PatsFan87 (Reply #12)

Wed Apr 19, 2017, 11:23 AM

16. I vehemently disagree...

sorry, but if they want to have an "Independent" candidate, they should run themselves.

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Response to Wounded Bear (Reply #16)

Wed Apr 19, 2017, 11:28 AM

17. If we don't want their say then we don't have the right to complain

when they don't vote for our candidate in the general election in my opinion.

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Response to panader0 (Original post)

Wed Apr 19, 2017, 11:21 AM

14. Sick of Bernie being used as a wedge. On DU and in real life. Sanders STILL trashes

 

the Democratic party. STILL. Even as the party gives him a platform.

He basically presents himself as perfect and the Democratic party as faulted in several important ways.

So his message doesn't invite "independents" to join the Democratic party.

And sadly, the Democratic party is stuck with him.

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Response to KittyWampus (Reply #14)

Wed Apr 19, 2017, 11:45 AM

26. His message invited me to the Democratic party

His message told me to vote Hillary.

And now his message just tells me to keep fighting and get out the vote.

His message is NOT telling anyone to leave the D party. He's NOT telling anyone to vote against the D party.

I don't see the problem.

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Response to KittyWampus (Reply #14)

Wed Apr 19, 2017, 01:08 PM

53. No Trump and the right trashes dems

Bernie isn't a democrat and no matter how much you all complain about him he isn't going to follow this script a lot of you think every democrat should read from. I have never heard that man say dont vote democratic.
There is nothing wrong with debate. If I too don't agree with the democratic party on something I too will speak up. If we're not looking at all the angles on a problem to find the best solution then we are bad as they are. Its what stops progression.

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Response to askyagerz (Reply #53)

Wed Apr 19, 2017, 01:11 PM

54. He's head of outreach for the Democratic party, FFS. And he consistently insults Democrats

 

and the party.

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Response to KittyWampus (Reply #54)

Wed Apr 19, 2017, 01:26 PM

57. Insults? Like Pocahontas or crooked hillary?

Give me a break! Obviously the Democratic party needs this man. Like you said they are stuck with him. Maybe they are the ones who need to conform a little. Bernie is genuine and that means he is going to speak his mind and that's why people love him. If he starts preaching that we need to start voting republican then you can all start trashing him but until that day you're just wasting your breath and turning off future voters

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Response to askyagerz (Reply #57)

Wed Apr 19, 2017, 01:36 PM

58. Bernie is no more or less "genuine" than any other politician.

 

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Response to KittyWampus (Reply #58)

Wed Apr 19, 2017, 01:55 PM

60. Maybe, maybe not

He is definitely perceived as more genuine then most. Falling in line is the opposite of being genuine. I have been following politics a long time and I would say Bernie speaks what's on his mind a lot more then the garden variety politician.

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Response to askyagerz (Reply #57)

Wed Apr 19, 2017, 02:28 PM

62. No, insults like "feeble" and "corrupt" and "ideologically bankrupt".

you're just wasting your breath and turning off future voters
No, it's not a waste of breath for anyone to defend our great party. Why should anyone remain silent and allow attacks on the Democratic Party to go unchallenged? We wouldn't accept it if Donald Trump or Paul Ryan were to say such things about the Democratic Party. Why should anyone be given a free pass to say untrue things about the Democratic Party? The reality is that trashing Democrats and smearing the Democratic Party is what's "turning off" support for the ONLY party that will be able to make a difference against the GOP and Trump.

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Response to NurseJackie (Reply #62)

Wed Apr 19, 2017, 02:43 PM

63. As Dr phill would say

How has that been working for ya? Stop trying to shine the turd and listen to some criticism for once and actually try to fix the damn thing. The democratic party lost to trump for fluck sake!

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Response to askyagerz (Reply #63)

Wed Apr 19, 2017, 02:50 PM

64. The Democratic party isn't corrupt. Democrats are not feeble or ideologically bankrupt.

Our great party is not a "turd" (as you say). Those are not "criticisms" ... those are lies and smears. It needs to stop.

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Response to NurseJackie (Reply #64)

Wed Apr 19, 2017, 03:00 PM

65. We... lost... to... Trump...

Maybe next time we can lose to Ted nuggent. The democratic party is stale and in dire straights and some of you need to snap out of this just keep trudging along funk ya all in. It's quickly becoming a new world out there. Bernie Sanders is equivalent to that Kentucky coal company building a solar farm while a lot of you are like but we still have all this coal to burn... Bernie is just pointing out what A LOT of Americans see that's wrong with the party and you should all be listening. We shouldn't be having this much trouble beating these idiots. Obviously something isn't working

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Response to askyagerz (Reply #65)

Wed Apr 19, 2017, 03:04 PM

66. No that's not what he's doing.

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Response to askyagerz (Reply #57)

Wed Apr 19, 2017, 04:14 PM

72. He may not out and out "trash" Democrats like Republicans do

but he likes to get out there and criticize them publicly all of the time. If I was an ignorant, uninformed voter listening to Bernie criticize and I didn't particularly like Republicans, I probably wouldn't be very motivated to vote for Democrats either and might throw my vote on a third party or not vote at all. This is not me saying that the Democratic Party is perfect or above reproach, but you can talk about "warts" and problems with the party "in house" and leave it out of major campaigns that we simply can't afford to lose if we want to live long enough to see some good progressive progress in the country. Bernie shouldn't be able to have it both ways- If he wants to support the Democratic Party, fine, but he needs to keep the sniping and criticism in backrooms or with party officials. Otherwise, if he just wants to be "Independent" and be able to speak his mind about both parties, that's fine too but he shouldn't be allowed to serve the role as a de facto representative of a party he isn't even officially a member of at the same time. IMHO.

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Response to Proud Liberal Dem (Reply #72)

Wed Apr 19, 2017, 05:05 PM

80. That can go both ways

A lot of potential voters could be sitting there and saying why should I vote for the democratic party when they have become stale and keep losing and stubbornly keep sticking to their ways. They might see Bernie as someone willing to point out flaws and bring life back to the left and get excited for the future. He definitely isn't causing anyone to turn around and vote for the right.

I voted for Bill Clinton the year I turned 18 and voted for nothing but dems since but have never bowed down to kiss their feet and pretended they are perfect. Many times I have been like ummm that's stupid democratic party and there's no reason I should be scolded for it since I constantly vote dem. Criticism is sometimes needed for the better good

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Response to askyagerz (Reply #57)

Wed Apr 19, 2017, 07:46 PM

83. BS insults the Democratic Party with "feeble" and "can't fight back"

on Rachel's Show and "..the Democratic Party of the elite" in Boston with Senator Warren..

When ssarandon is the Elitist..

Who suckered the LOW INFORMATION voters with LIES like these..

"The prominent Sanders backer also predicted that a Hillary Clinton indictment was "inevitable"

Susan Sarandon: Hillary Clinton more dangerous than Donald Trump

http://www.salon.com/2016/06/03/susan_sarandon_hillary_clinton_more_dangerous_than_donald_trump/

poor ssarandon "had to change her phone number.." while the rest of the country that isn't so well off have to worry about this among other trumpshite..








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Response to Cha (Reply #83)

Wed Apr 19, 2017, 07:59 PM

85. That is calling a spade a spade as far as I'm concerned

My biggest complaint about the democratic party for the 20 years I've been voting for them is they need to grow some cojones. I have said it many times, still not afraid to say it and no one here is gonna say I can't say it... I think Bernie and I both have that right as people who want to see the democratic party to succeed.

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Response to askyagerz (Reply #85)

Wed Apr 19, 2017, 08:00 PM

87. BS is Wrong.. he's also Wrong on this..

Sanders Wrong on Voter Turnout

snip//

Sen. Bernie Sanders wrongly claimed that voter turnout in 2016 was “the lowest … in 20 years.” In fact, turnout was higher than it was in 2012.

The overall turnout was 60.2 percent in 2016, up from 58.6 percent four years earlier. In addition, the percentage of eligible voters casting ballots for president in 2016 was 59.3 percent — the third highest in the last 44 years. Only 2008 and 2004 were higher.

Sanders, April 16: So many of our people are giving up on the political process. It is very frightening. In the last presidential election, when Trump won, we had the lowest voter turnout over — in 20 years. And in the previous two years before that, in the midterm election, we had the lowest voter turnout in 70 years.

More..
http://www.factcheck.org/2017/04/sanders-wrong-voter-turnout/

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Response to Cha (Reply #87)

Wed Apr 19, 2017, 08:11 PM

88. What Bernie isn't infallible?

What you really want to get into a pissing contest between Bernie and hillary's flubs? Give me a break. I could care less what politician it takes to take down the republican agenda wether that be bernie, hillary, warren, stein, or Fred Flintstone and you all might want to start being just as open or you might just end up with Ted neggent as your next prez.

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Response to KittyWampus (Reply #14)

Wed Apr 19, 2017, 02:19 PM

61. It's maddening, isn't it? We deserve better.

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Response to NurseJackie (Reply #61)

Wed Apr 19, 2017, 04:14 PM

71. I wish Al Giordano would primary him.

 

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Response to panader0 (Original post)

Wed Apr 19, 2017, 11:22 AM

15. I only have one problem with that, really...

and that is the "open primary" system. Allowing 'Independents' to vote in what are generally party functions like selecting the candidate sucks.

Georgia 06 is a pretty good example of that. 18 candidates?

If "Independents" want to have a voice in who runs, they should either join a party or run themselves.

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Response to panader0 (Original post)

Wed Apr 19, 2017, 11:37 AM

21. All of the "Independents" I know reliably vote Republican

They fancy themselves to be bold, unconventional thinkers so they reject labels.

Come November, they roll up to the ballot box and vote for whatever Republican promises to inflict the most damage upon women, minorities & the LGBT community.

These noble Independents will say things like "I don't really like Candidate (R), but he has some great ideas." Repeat every election cycle.

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Response to Orrex (Reply #21)

Wed Apr 19, 2017, 12:13 PM

34. That's my experience too. n/t

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Response to panader0 (Original post)

Wed Apr 19, 2017, 11:40 AM

22. I agree and disagree.

Yes there are true independents out there, such as those who believe in fiscal responsibility (granted Democrats do that better, but haven't sold that message well) and are pro choice. I could come up with a number of scenario's on this. But, I doubt they are in fact 40%.

Why? There are Republicans out there who call themselves independent. I know of one guy who says he doesn't support any particular party, looks at the issues, etc. Yet votes "R" every single time, spouts right wing talking point, thinks Trump will do a great job, thinks the Russia stuff is fake news, etc. At least his wife admits she's a Republican.

Gotta be careful as to what you label as "independent".

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Response to panader0 (Original post)

Wed Apr 19, 2017, 11:41 AM

23. Republicans russian hackers targeted lists of Ds and D donors. I don't think party should be listed.

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Response to panader0 (Original post)

Wed Apr 19, 2017, 11:42 AM

24. NOOO

THEY NEED TO HAVE A D BY THEIR NAME AND PAINT THEMSELVES FULL BLUEEEEEEEEE

JK

I agree because it's the mission that matters, not party. If we have the same goals then that's what should be focused on.

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Response to retrowire (Reply #24)

Wed Apr 19, 2017, 12:17 PM

36. Exactly! My hubs has voted Democratic all his life...

But he refuses to register as a Dem or even verbally identify as a Dem. I proudly do.

We both supported Bernie in the primary but voted for Hillary. Neither of us would EVER vote for the party of the devil.


"It's the mission that matters, not party."
AMEN!!






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Response to panader0 (Original post)

Wed Apr 19, 2017, 11:43 AM

25. I'm really confused about what it means

to "open the doors" of the Democratic Party to Independents. Why don't they just join the Party and call themselves Democrats? I'm a little fuzzy on what it means to be "Independent" in general and what that might actually mean to "open the doors" to them. Shouldn't we want to figure that out before we run and hold the doors open to them?

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Response to Proud Liberal Dem (Reply #25)

Wed Apr 19, 2017, 12:17 PM

35. Why don't they join? Maybe because they prefer to be independent of partisan politics?

Maybe because they don't feel the Democratic Party always represents their interests? Maybe because they vote for candidates, not parties? Maybe the Democratic Party has to win them over before they call themselves Democrats? Maybe because they don't feel like the two-party system doesn't work well for them and others in their socio-economic strata? Maybe because they actually do think the two parties are pretty similar when it comes to things that are important to them personally? Maybe because in the State they reside in they can pick which primary they want to vote in as an Independent? Maybe their State does not have party registrations (Vermont is one example)?

Seems like there are a lot of reasons people might choose to register as Independent. Strikes me that all of above are legitimate to the person making that choice.

Regarding your point about before we hold the doors open for them, it's really just a question of do we want Independents to vote for Democratic Party candidates isn't it?

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Response to KPN (Reply #35)

Wed Apr 19, 2017, 12:32 PM

42. Yeah

but there are all kinds of Democrats represented in the party and if they don't like how it is, being a party member would probably make it easier to advocate for change within the party than continuing to be an Independent outsider IMHO. I'm not saying that choosing to be an Independent is not a legitimate choice (it is), but I'm just not sure I understand what it means to "open the party" to them? Democratic politicians usually tailor their messages and policies to try to attract Independents during their campaigns (though they usually then get criticized for not being "progressive" enough because of their more broad-based appeal). As for voting within primaries, I guess I just don't understand the concept of "open primaries". I just feel like, if somebody cares enough about wanting to vote within one party's primary or the other to help select the GE candidate, that they should register to vote as a member of said party to ensure the integrity of the party (we don't want right-wing Independents helping to nominate somebody) and that the candidate that is ultimately chosen best reflects the will of the members of party. If we just open the party to whomever whenever, then what would the point be of continuing to have parties? Independents want to be independent and not belong to a party, that's fine but if that's the case, then they should not complain about possibly not being able to participate in party politics IMHO. AFAIK the doors of the DNC (and RNC) are always wide open for anybody to join.

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Response to Proud Liberal Dem (Reply #42)

Wed Apr 19, 2017, 07:16 PM

82. You're right, the doors are always open.

Both parties have been losing members to "Independent" for quite some time now. Mostly because those members were disenchanted with the party they belonged to -- for whatever reason. I do know former Dems who are no longer registered as Dem because of the role big money has played in shaping party policy and leadership over the past couple decades. Most of those people say the two parties are the same in that regard. I don't think they're identical, but I do agree that they have both become beholden to big money and that does get reflected in the party-supported economic theory and positions. There's absolutely no question of that in my mind.

I hear you. But I also know that Bernie has been pointing this issue out consistently over the past 40 years (according to folks I know from Vermont, one of whom knows him and has known him personally since the mid 70s). I share that concern, and while I am a registered Dem and have been for 45 years now, I also think the Democratic Party has strayed from the basic principles it held 45 years ago. So I understand and appreciate where former Democrats are coming from on this.

As for younger folks, the millenials, they have grown up in a period of ultra-partisanship like never before in our lifetimes. To them, Washington DC and the two party system is a fiasco. They are all about local politics, community level governance and just really don't think the two parties offer much for them to get behind at the national/federal level. Bernie has a message that they can get behind ... and do get behind.

The question I would ask is why would we not want former Dems and millenials (liberal/progressive independents) to support our party and its candidates? The only reason I can come up with is "we" don't agree with their (progressive independents') political views. But is that the case?

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Response to panader0 (Original post)

Wed Apr 19, 2017, 11:48 AM

27. I'm very close to going back to being Independent (Unaffiliated)

Even if I still end up primarily voting Democratic, I'm getting really sick of the elitist partisan attitudes.

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Response to bekkilyn (Reply #27)

Wed Apr 19, 2017, 11:57 AM

29. yep

 

putting the party before the country seems at best stupid....

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Response to bekkilyn (Reply #27)

Wed Apr 19, 2017, 01:02 PM

51. Who cares? Do what you want. It's not a big deal as long as you vote for the Dem. n/t

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Response to panader0 (Original post)

Wed Apr 19, 2017, 11:54 AM

28. AMEN!

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Response to panader0 (Original post)

Wed Apr 19, 2017, 11:59 AM

30. Many of them are swing voters

 

This time they decided to vote for bigotry.

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Response to panader0 (Original post)

Wed Apr 19, 2017, 12:00 PM

31. If the independents support the party platform, come on board.

If the independents support the party platform, come on board.

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Response to LanternWaste (Reply #31)

Wed Apr 19, 2017, 12:08 PM

32. As the most prominant Independent in the nation,

Bernie Sanders has consistently caucused with the Democrats.
And because Independents are the largest bloc of voters at this point,
Democrats should welcome Sanders and his bloc into the party.
The constant bashing and rehashing of the primaries is like shooting
yourself in the foot. I wish it would stop. It's counter-productive.

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Response to panader0 (Original post)

Wed Apr 19, 2017, 12:11 PM

33. What makes anyone think Democratic party is NOT open to Independents?



That is my fundamental problem with Bernie. He makes statements like this.

The door is and always has been open. People have always had a voice. Doesn't mean you get to dictate everything.

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Response to panader0 (Original post)

Wed Apr 19, 2017, 12:24 PM

37. He's implying our door wasn't open before, which is bullshit

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Response to panader0 (Original post)

Wed Apr 19, 2017, 12:25 PM

38. Party ID doesn't equal turnout or predict voting habits.

He's technically correct that more people identify as Independent. That doesn't mean they vote that way or that Democrats have closed the door to them.

Sanders own experience with the Democratic party proves the door are open to Independents. He Identifies as an Independent and ran in the Democratic primary. He now holds a position in the Democratic leadership. He even worked out a backroom deal to become a ranking member on multiple Senate Committees.


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Response to rogue emissary (Reply #38)

Wed Apr 19, 2017, 12:52 PM

49. those are pesky facts.

facts undermine narratives.

welcome to post modernism, where facts don't matter and narratives like "we need to be more open to independents" gain traction despite all available evidence.

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Response to rogue emissary (Reply #38)

Wed Apr 19, 2017, 12:56 PM

50. Yes, it would be interesting to see how many times he has voted for a Republican. I

would bet not many, if any at all. So why would he think other "independents" so easily switch between D's and R's? They don't.

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Response to panader0 (Original post)

Wed Apr 19, 2017, 12:28 PM

39. and maybe the independents should reach out as well. BS, why did you not life a finger for Ossoff?

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Response to panader0 (Original post)

Wed Apr 19, 2017, 12:30 PM

40. Arguably, Bernie is the most influential independent in US politics.


We are fortunate that he is saying that he has and is aligning with us. He has the gravitas among independents to keep them aligned with the Democratic party and maybe even attract some.

He's an important voice in out big tent.

This is not to ignore that Bernie has benefitted, that his criticism is unwanted by the party faithful, or that he is insensitive to minority identity politics at times.

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Response to aikoaiko (Reply #40)

Wed Apr 19, 2017, 01:11 PM

55. LOLZ.

 

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Response to KittyWampus (Reply #55)

Wed Apr 19, 2017, 01:23 PM

56. Some of us laugh. Some of us cry.



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Response to panader0 (Original post)

Wed Apr 19, 2017, 12:31 PM

41. A very important post for Democrats

They should study the strategy of Ossoff in Georgia race as a model to build the Party, in my opinion.

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Response to panader0 (Original post)

Wed Apr 19, 2017, 12:33 PM

44. I'm guessing white men make up the bulk of that 40%. nt

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Response to LexVegas (Reply #44)

Wed Apr 19, 2017, 07:53 PM

84. of course

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Response to panader0 (Original post)

Wed Apr 19, 2017, 12:41 PM

45. Um, they already have.

Isn't Bernie the Minority Leader of a Senate committee? How much more inclusive can you be? Now, do I want Dems supporting Alt-Right Independents, no! Do I want them supporting all independent union workers (including coal miners), hell yes. Do I want tolerance of hate and bigotry, no. We should compete for the voters who voted against their own interests and who supported Drumpf because he was "change" and not because he's a racist hater. The anti-woman, anti-brown skin asses have no place in this tent.

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Response to panader0 (Original post)

Wed Apr 19, 2017, 12:46 PM

46. The Democratic Party has ALWAYS been open to Independents and republicans.

I don't know where Sanders got the idea that it wasn't.

Did he forget who he caucuses with?

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Response to George II (Reply #46)

Wed Apr 19, 2017, 12:50 PM

47. We just allow the most prominent one to run as the head of our ticket....

and make a considerable contribution to our party platform. The notion that we aren't open is bullshit.

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Response to George II (Reply #46)

Wed Apr 19, 2017, 03:12 PM

67. Obviously not here on DU.

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Response to panader0 (Reply #67)

Wed Apr 19, 2017, 03:22 PM

68. DU isn't the Democratic Party.

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Response to George II (Reply #68)

Wed Apr 19, 2017, 03:37 PM

70. Are you Canadian?

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Response to panader0 (Original post)

Wed Apr 19, 2017, 12:50 PM

48. I am registered unenrolled and have never voted for a non-Democrat. The majority of voters

in MA are registered unenrolled. Only 10% of voters registered independent/unenrolled do not vote along party lines.

It is laughable to assume that there are 40% of voters up for grabs in every election.

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Response to panader0 (Original post)

Wed Apr 19, 2017, 01:02 PM

52. Lots of these "independents" are racists who voted for Trump for that reason.

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Response to panader0 (Original post)

Wed Apr 19, 2017, 03:35 PM

69. Bernie was suggesting open primaries

If who represents the party is not join to be decided by it's members. Then there might as well not even be a party.

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Response to standingtall (Reply #69)

Wed Apr 19, 2017, 04:26 PM

73. The idea of "open primaries" is dumb. It's dilluting the party for the sake of the the lazy...

... "activists" who don't care enough to even bother registering. It opens up the process to abuse and shenanigans from the main opposition party, or even saboteurs like the "Greens" and "Libertarians". If someone wants to be an "impulse-voter" then they can do that during the General Election. But, I firmly believe that party business should be handled ONLY by individuals who care enough to make the MINIMUM effort of simply registering (or declaring) their affiliation with the Democratic Party.

It's not that hard to do. But I'll bet a dollar that a very large portion of those who MOANED and WAILED last year about being "disenfranchised" because they weren't registered Democrats STILL HAVEN'T REGISTERED. It's not like they weren't advised ahead of time last year... and it's not as if they weren't reminded again... they just don't care... they're special snowflakes who don't want to register (just because they don't wanna!)

Fuck that!

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Response to standingtall (Reply #69)

Wed Apr 19, 2017, 04:37 PM

75. So that Republicans can vote for the most conservative or weakest nominee?

No thanks.

http://www.fairvote.org/primaries#open_and_closed_primaries

Open Primaries
In an open primary, voters of any affiliation may vote in the primary of any party. They cannot vote in more than one party's primary, although that prohibition can be difficult to enforce in the event a party has a primary runoff election. In many open primary states, voters do not indicate partisan affiliation when they register to vote.

One area of contention in open primaries is "crossover" voting. It most often involves voters affiliated with one political party voting in the primary of another political party to influence that party's nomination. For example, if a district routinely elects the Democratic nominee, Republican voters may attempt to swing the Democratic primary election toward a more conservative nominee. Occasionally, there also are concerns about sabotage, or "party crashing," which involves partisans strategically voting for a weaker candidate in another party's primary in the hope that the opposition party will nominate a candidate who is easier to defeat in the general election.

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Response to panader0 (Original post)

Wed Apr 19, 2017, 04:35 PM

74. But 40% aren't Bernie-style progressive independents.

Some lean Republican or conservative, some lean Democrat or progressive, and some are centrists who flip back and forth.

So what does it mean to "open the door to Independents," exactly? Any position Democrats adopt simply to appeal to one group of independents is likely to repel another.

http://www.gallup.com/poll/188096/democratic-republican-identification-near-historical-lows.aspx

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Response to pnwmom (Reply #74)

Wed Apr 19, 2017, 04:41 PM

76. Agreed. But this pool of voters needs to be tapped.

Democrats should not shun these voters--at their peril.
And the constant Bernie bashing, the leading Independent,
is counter-productive. The political tides are not the same as before.
Our party must adapt.

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Response to panader0 (Reply #76)

Wed Apr 19, 2017, 05:01 PM

79. I would feel better about Bernie if he didn't keep disparaging Democrats.

For example, he didn't even bother to find out what Ossof's policies were -- just proclaimed that not all Dems are progressives. (And didn't support Ossoff in the open primary -- even though he's going to be campaigning for another Dem who is anti-abortion.)

http://thehill.com/homenews/campaign/329559-sanders-i-dont-know-if-ossoff-is-progressive

Sen. Bernie Sanders (I-Vt.) says he doesn't know whether Democratic congressional candidate Jon Ossoff, who came in first Tuesday in a closely watched Georgia special election, is a progressive.

“I don’t know,” he said Tuesday in Louisville, Ky., The Wall Street Journal said Wednesday. “If you run as a Democrat, you’re a Democrat.”

“Some Democrats are progressive, and some Democrats are not,” the 2016 presidential candidate added.




http://journalstar.com/news/local/govt-and-politics/states-may-require-ultrasound-before-abortion/article_3e406d52-1489-5adf-b16c-c627a48ac03e.html


Sen. Heath Mello, a Democrat who said he opposes abortion, signed on as a co-sponsor, calling the measure a “positive first step to reducing the number of abortions in Nebraska.”



http://www.ketv.com/article/bernie-sanders-to-campaign-for-omaha-mayoral-candidate-heath-mello-at-april-20-rally/9245797

Bernie Sanders to campaign for Omaha mayoral candidate Heath Mello at April 20 rally


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Response to panader0 (Original post)

Wed Apr 19, 2017, 04:45 PM

77. being independent is NOT the same as belonging to an Independent Party

in fact, for most of us its actually a statement that we aren't part of any defined group.
Bernie's independent is not the same as my independent.

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Response to panader0 (Original post)

Wed Apr 19, 2017, 04:47 PM

78. The party is open to everyone

If you're talking about elections and caucuses, that is up to the states.

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Response to panader0 (Original post)

Wed Apr 19, 2017, 05:28 PM

81. Most independents think they are superior or are apolitical

In my opinion, a good portion of these "independents" think of themselves as being superior to those who consider themselves partisan. Things like "I look at both sides of an issue or vote for the best candidate regardless of party affiliation"

While there are some that are truly independent, most of them always favor one party or another; they just won't admit it as they think that makes them better than everyone else.

The other subset of "independents" are those who are so apolitical, they don't pay any attention to politics until right before an election. They have few convictions, and are the ones most easily influenced by soundbites or which candidate they would like to have a beer with.

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Response to panader0 (Original post)

Wed Apr 19, 2017, 07:59 PM

86. Bernie is smart

simple as that

He's fought for US all his life

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