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OKNancy

(41,832 posts)
Tue Apr 11, 2017, 09:27 AM Apr 2017

Story about 69 year old Dr. David Dao; the man United dragged off the plane

Sorry about the source, the daily mail, but they really have the best pictures and most info that I could find.

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-4401444/Name-man-hauled-United-flight-Chicago-revealed.html

He is an internal medicine specialist father-of-five, grandfather of one. He is a 69-year-old Vietnamese-American is married to a pediatrician who has a clinic in Elizabethtown, Kentucky - about 40 miles south of Louisville.

Four of his children are doctors:
excerpt from the article:

Their eldest son Tim, 34, practices medicine in Texas; their second son Ben, 31, is a medical graduate; their daughter Christine, 33, is a doctor in Durham, NC; and their youngster daughter Angela, 27, is a medical graduate of the University of Kentucky.




-----

I think the fact that he is from Vietnam may have something to do with the obvious fear he expressed when being yanked off.

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Story about 69 year old Dr. David Dao; the man United dragged off the plane (Original Post) OKNancy Apr 2017 OP
All American family exboyfil Apr 2017 #1
Yeah, that was a bad decision for United. Zing Zing Zingbah Apr 2017 #13
Well maybe cagefreesoylentgreen Apr 2017 #70
Such a horrific way to treat any human being Justice Apr 2017 #2
Yeah, he could have been afraid he was about to be deported. randome Apr 2017 #3
"How do we know he's a real doctor" BannonsLiver Apr 2017 #22
Not at all. It was a legitimate question. randome Apr 2017 #27
Really? atreides1 Apr 2017 #32
One who might state his dilemma rather than scream and fight the police. randome Apr 2017 #37
Okay Judgey Judgerton... You are right you don't know ... LakeArenal Apr 2017 #50
His immigration status and past conviction may have made him a little jumpy around the police. randome Apr 2017 #52
Now you are speculating... LakeArenal Apr 2017 #53
That's most of what we do on DU. randome Apr 2017 #55
Speak for yourself speculator... LakeArenal Apr 2017 #58
Some people will ALWAYS defend Wall Street and so on. Eliot Rosewater Apr 2017 #102
Isn't that the truth. (nt) bekkilyn Apr 2017 #105
What past conviction? cannabis_flower Apr 2017 #59
He was convicted of selling painkillers. Had his license revoked but re-acquired. randome Apr 2017 #63
What kind of police HelenWheels Apr 2017 #67
Yeah, I'm confused about whether they were police or security guards. randome Apr 2017 #71
Apparently they were security guards. nt No Vested Interest Apr 2017 #189
Hired by UA. In the same way DAPL corp. hired security officers BlancheSplanchnik Apr 2017 #208
He paid for his flight JonLP24 Apr 2017 #249
Yes, he paid for a flight, not for a specific seat on a specific plane. randome Apr 2017 #250
Both parties are responsible -- United and the Chicago PD. JonLP24 Apr 2017 #251
No company operates without limits on compensation of some sort. randome Apr 2017 #252
I'll let the lawsuit sort all this out JonLP24 Apr 2017 #253
I have no doubt that's true. randome Apr 2017 #254
That was subsequently discovered to be liberalhistorian Apr 2017 #259
The doctor's identity is irrelevant. And, in fact, it's been 'proven' that the first ID was correct. randome Apr 2017 #265
No, United shares equal blame. liberalhistorian Apr 2017 #266
Wrong guy, randome lillypaddle Apr 2017 #234
Nice find! BlueMTexpat Apr 2017 #237
Hey, you're welcome lillypaddle Apr 2017 #242
Exactly. Makes you wonder what other forms of "classification" are going on. BannonsLiver Apr 2017 #122
I'm drifting with you BannonsLiver.. LakeArenal Apr 2017 #165
Righhhht BannonsLiver Apr 2017 #41
Well, he certainly is NOT a "typical doctor." cwydro Apr 2017 #49
Clearly the airline handled this terribly janterry Apr 2017 #56
They let him back on and he was presumably going/running (didn't see that part) back to his seat. PotatoChip Apr 2017 #170
Someone seated near him on plane said his head hit the floor and he was out for a bit womanofthehills Apr 2017 #195
And that's relevant to being dragged off a plane by goons how? BannonsLiver Apr 2017 #123
I'be been working in healthcare for thirty years. Laffy Kat Apr 2017 #186
And it was pretty evil that those "not so pretty facts" are being used pnwmom Apr 2017 #213
It was a shitty question ProfessorPlum Apr 2017 #57
I'm simply trying to be objective. randome Apr 2017 #60
no, you are not being objective ProfessorPlum Apr 2017 #65
No, the implication from the start is that if the man is a doctor, he is more deserving of respect. randome Apr 2017 #77
MAYBE they should have offered $100 more, or $200 more, or $300 more ProfessorPlum Apr 2017 #83
But they did keep offering more, until they reached the maximum they had to offer. randome Apr 2017 #91
They offered *vouchers* not *money* bekkilyn Apr 2017 #93
The vouchers are pretty worthless. Most people have experienced that. Alice11111 Apr 2017 #228
Exactly, which is why no one wanted them. (nt) bekkilyn Apr 2017 #244
"the maximum they had to offer" a self-imposed maximum ProfessorPlum Apr 2017 #95
Nazis? Nah, they would have pumped the whole plane full of zyclon b. LOL Lib Apr 2017 #109
The company-imposed limit is the _Company's_ problem JHB Apr 2017 #185
THIS! nt tblue37 Apr 2017 #216
Perfectly stated. MrPurple Apr 2017 #225
No they did not do "everything they could" bekkilyn Apr 2017 #90
I'm pointing out that if the scheduling situation was as dire as some have said... randome Apr 2017 #96
DON'T RESIST CITIZEN. OBEY. OBEY YOUR CORPORATE MASTERS ProfessorPlum Apr 2017 #98
If someone is grabbing and threatening me with physical violence bekkilyn Apr 2017 #103
We don't know what occurred before the video. randome Apr 2017 #116
There was no good reason for him to have been required to leave in the first place bekkilyn Apr 2017 #125
That sounds reasonable. But maybe there were no alternatives. randome Apr 2017 #129
He probably refused and then security was called LeftInTX Apr 2017 #140
+1 dalton99a Apr 2017 #182
There are plenty of alternatives, but they just didn't try. (nt) bekkilyn Apr 2017 #150
It's bribery the minute they offer it BannonsLiver Apr 2017 #215
Bingo BadgerMom Apr 2017 #145
apparently they randomly selected his name. bdamomma Apr 2017 #161
This girl was "asked politely" to leave the classroom--first by the teacher, tblue37 Apr 2017 #167
But we don't know how much the police tried to talk Dr. Dao out of the plane. randome Apr 2017 #169
"To point out that people should meekly and compliantly agree to be brutalized is ridiculous" EX500rider Apr 2017 #183
Which means it would never have gotten straightened out bekkilyn Apr 2017 #191
and if he had a condition that might cause him to be easily frightened or disoriented? delisen Apr 2017 #172
A plane full of passengers is 'special'. Confining space. Nowhere to go. randome Apr 2017 #174
What United should have done was take responsibility for their own ineptitude bekkilyn Apr 2017 #192
It has occurred to me that someone his age growing up in Viet Nam is likely to have experienced Tanuki Apr 2017 #179
Agree. Plus too many police seem to be trained to bark orders at people delisen Apr 2017 #190
Which is why we see him in the later video pleading, "Don't kill me!" nt tblue37 Apr 2017 #217
They could have driven them there. It was only four hours away! LisaM Apr 2017 #202
Only typical doctors you mean. tazkcmo Apr 2017 #257
Yes. randome Apr 2017 #258
So if I were to be trespassing in your house, you'd mythology Apr 2017 #80
TALKING is what responsible grownups do ProfessorPlum Apr 2017 #85
If the police then beat him up instead, is it your fault? jberryhill Apr 2017 #226
The man wasn't trespassing bekkilyn Apr 2017 #97
Find another means of getting the crew to Louisville BadgerMom Apr 2017 #142
The plane ended up being delayed two hours anyway--and part of the delay was because they had to tblue37 Apr 2017 #218
Thank you, Professor Plum, very good answer. Alice11111 Apr 2017 #227
Why should doctors be treated differently? Demsrule86 Apr 2017 #72
There is no evidence of tasering, despite some DUers pushing that possibility. randome Apr 2017 #82
I read it somewhere and I still wonder why you are so determined to blame the victim... Demsrule86 Apr 2017 #112
I'm not blaming the victim. randome Apr 2017 #121
If a passenger were ordered to undress and do jumping jacks, must he comply? pnwmom Apr 2017 #214
That "flailing about", as you describe it, was most likely from being tazed and rendered unconscious brush Apr 2017 #66
I seriously doubt he was tazed. There is nothing that supports that possibility. randome Apr 2017 #84
Guess you've never seen videos of people being tazed. There is yelling. And how do you account for.. brush Apr 2017 #89
In the video, you see him hit his head against the opposing row of seats. randome Apr 2017 #94
I watched several videos and didn't see him hit his head. Why are you defending this horrific... brush Apr 2017 #138
I'm not defending anything. I'm saying he hit his head on the opposing row of seats. randome Apr 2017 #163
He did hit his face on the armrest. That is why he was bloodied. nt tblue37 Apr 2017 #219
He hit his face or the rough manhandling led to his face hitting the arm rest? brush Apr 2017 #221
That, I am sure--he was yanked around rather fiercely, so I imagine they hit his face tblue37 Apr 2017 #222
Here you go again ProfessorPlum Apr 2017 #99
Oh, come on! Don't get a post hidden on my account! I'm not -as I'm sure you'd agree- worth it! randome Apr 2017 #111
"And pls. note everyone. They picked a POC to do that to." tarheelsunc Apr 2017 #209
He was tased from what I heard ...and I would have been furious... Demsrule86 Apr 2017 #69
I feel confident in saying he wasn't tased. randome Apr 2017 #87
Post removed Post removed Apr 2017 #100
I'm not at all saying that. Geeze, get over yourself. randome Apr 2017 #108
man, come on d_r Apr 2017 #124
I feel blaming the victim is inappropriate...and too bad for United. Demsrule86 Apr 2017 #110
How would one forcefully remove a passenger without the use of force? randome Apr 2017 #113
I find it disturbing that this discussion has gone as MontanaMama Apr 2017 #184
You can debate this until the cows come home Heartstrings Apr 2017 #196
I've wondered if s/he is arguing just for the sake of arguing bekkilyn Apr 2017 #203
Absolutely. warmfeet Apr 2017 #205
+1! eom BlueMTexpat Apr 2017 #239
One should not forcibly remove a passenger period so there was no need for any sort of force... Demsrule86 Apr 2017 #207
Check upthread. BlueMTexpat Apr 2017 #238
Slander as well as assault. Demsrule86 Apr 2017 #241
Please check upthread. BlueMTexpat Apr 2017 #236
aaaaaand. . . . right on schedule. niyad Apr 2017 #139
Frankly I don't think any mature adult would act like he did, Dr or not. EX500rider Apr 2017 #180
He screamed when thecthree goons attacked him. He may have been tased. yardwork Apr 2017 #194
He was not tased. No one on the plane said he was. randome Apr 2017 #197
Were you there? yardwork Apr 2017 #198
Someone on the plane would have said it. randome Apr 2017 #201
got a link? tazkcmo Apr 2017 #255
Entirely my opinion. I would not expect a professional man/woman to react w shouting & flailing. randome Apr 2017 #256
Who cares what YOU would expect? tazkcmo Apr 2017 #260
first news source to actually do their job and identify the man and confirm he is a physician. hlthe2b Apr 2017 #4
Ya know, I read the DM...daily. I have yet to see why it's called a "rag." I read more news there WinkyDink Apr 2017 #7
Well, they certainly seem to work at getting the story--rather than waiting to be spoon-fed the hlthe2b Apr 2017 #9
It's a rag because it runs scare stories about immigrants, and obsesses about female bodies muriel_volestrangler Apr 2017 #28
"Scare stories" or lies? There's a difference. And you are SERIOUSLY GOING BACK TO THE 30'S?! WinkyDink Apr 2017 #220
Scare stories AND lies. Yes, it does goes back to the thirties. It's been a rag for over 80 years muriel_volestrangler Apr 2017 #232
When it's competitor is "The Sun" (Murdoch rag)... mwooldri Apr 2017 #81
And soon to be the new owner of United Airlines madokie Apr 2017 #5
Not a chance FBaggins Apr 2017 #48
The United employees are liberalhistorian Apr 2017 #267
Thanks, but we don't need to know his past. Nobody deserved that assault and battery. WinkyDink Apr 2017 #6
Very true. And we must continue to keep this in mind when the Tanuki Apr 2017 #11
WHAT blemishes in his professional history? I didn't read anything of the kind? hlthe2b Apr 2017 #16
I am not trying to offend you or slander Dr. Dao. Tanuki Apr 2017 #19
I had seen none of this but agree with you that this is immaterial to hlthe2b Apr 2017 #31
So the smear campaign begins already. Demsrule86 Apr 2017 #76
That case might involve some level of racist harassment too. hunter Apr 2017 #101
What if it had been Mitch McConnell? LeftInTX Apr 2017 #143
So what? athena Apr 2017 #118
excellent post! nt steve2470 Apr 2017 #132
+1000. byronius Apr 2017 #188
Yes! This! Lack of empathy, a chronic illness in our country... nt Heartstrings Apr 2017 #206
Do you work for United? Stop blaming the victim...don't care Demsrule86 Apr 2017 #75
They're not blaming the victim. athena Apr 2017 #120
No. It is important to get out there to fight the attempt to villainize him and destroy his rep hlthe2b Apr 2017 #14
limbaugh asked why didn't they just offer him a pepsi? certainot Apr 2017 #30
I've seen that Pepsi thing a few times christx30 Apr 2017 #106
limbaugh is making fun of the whole thing with a 'political correctness' reference certainot Apr 2017 #160
People I've seen it have been crapping on christx30 Apr 2017 #171
"PC" really means "Prejudice cover-up" sharedvalues Apr 2017 #223
here's one definition certainot Apr 2017 #224
I don't care itcfish Apr 2017 #8
I read that a random computer pick occurred tavernier Apr 2017 #10
Nope, he felt that it was racism and misandry HoneyBadger Apr 2017 #38
Totally agree. Respect for the man and what he's accomplished, but his being a doctor doesn't Fla Dem Apr 2017 #25
The claims for the amount of compensation vary from story to story csziggy Apr 2017 #12
Would have been cheaper for them to have offered 2 free first class tickets n2doc Apr 2017 #26
They could have hired a car and driver to drive their crew to Louisville csziggy Apr 2017 #35
Some DUers in the know say that doesn't work according to FAA regulations. randome Apr 2017 #39
As I said in my message,that might have been a consideration csziggy Apr 2017 #42
They could definitely be more forthcoming about the reason this became such a problem. randome Apr 2017 #45
They could have negotiated with a competitor to fly the crew hlthe2b Apr 2017 #43
Maybe they tried. If the entire region was screwed up, maybe there were no alternatives. randome Apr 2017 #46
Then hire a private service or join Netjet BadgerMom Apr 2017 #51
This... PoiBoy Apr 2017 #127
O'Hare's close to Palwaukee airport where I'm sure they could charter a nice small corp jet. Gidney N Cloyd Apr 2017 #147
I heard the flight they were repositioning for was next day. Hassin Bin Sober Apr 2017 #64
I hadn't heard that. Definitely no logic to forcing passengers off if that's the case. randome Apr 2017 #92
Billions, w the boycott.TheChinese are boycotting too.Today alone was1/2 million just in stock loses Alice11111 Apr 2017 #230
Without a compelling excuse? cannabis_flower Apr 2017 #61
It depends on the job - for a doctor it could be a major problem csziggy Apr 2017 #168
I was actually thinking of the others on the plane.. cannabis_flower Apr 2017 #181
Of course we don't know how many passengers were already behind schedule csziggy Apr 2017 #187
He definitely looks dangerous in that pic Orrex Apr 2017 #15
Why I don't fly DownriverDem Apr 2017 #17
I quit flying in 1990 when the passengers were treated like cattle csziggy Apr 2017 #40
UA seems to have some serious problems Phoenix61 Apr 2017 #18
Weather canceled and delayed thousands of flights in the region. It was a scheduling mess. randome Apr 2017 #20
Thanks, I didn't know that Phoenix61 Apr 2017 #23
They also kill pets -- see my post below (and it's all over YouTube and Twitter) anneboleyn Apr 2017 #164
I appreciate you sharing that information. Morning Joe were on dae Apr 2017 #21
agreed NewJeffCT Apr 2017 #33
+1 uponit7771 Apr 2017 #54
69 years old & treated like that . Shame on them! luvMIdog Apr 2017 #24
Immigrants coming here and stealing our doctor jobs IronLionZion Apr 2017 #29
He was most likely tazed, and knocked unconscious. He was out cold when being dragged out with... brush Apr 2017 #86
I hope he sues the pants off of them TNLib Apr 2017 #34
When will the violence by Americans against the Vietnamese end? HoneyBadger Apr 2017 #36
We're just missing the Jackboots! SCVDem Apr 2017 #44
United needs employee training! Lonestarblue Apr 2017 #47
DING DING DING! Lonestarblue, you're our grand prize winner! rocktivity Apr 2017 #79
They are allowed to offer as high an amount as they like. athena Apr 2017 #146
The CEO's response reiterates this attitude. It is a shitty company. Top to bottom. AgadorSparticus Apr 2017 #175
Thanks for the lovely picture, OKNancy. elleng Apr 2017 #62
I will repeat what I said on another thread on the same subject.... Heartstrings Apr 2017 #68
Let's not ask Judge SCVDem Apr 2017 #73
+1 to you here, too (nt) bekkilyn Apr 2017 #78
Thanks good to see you bekkilyn! Heartstrings Apr 2017 #104
heres what i dont understand rdking647 Apr 2017 #74
I hope he sues the living daylights out of United. C Moon Apr 2017 #88
I hope all those DUers who accused him of lying about being a doctor apologize publicly. athena Apr 2017 #107
+1 nt steve2470 Apr 2017 #114
Amen get the red out Apr 2017 #134
I suggest that you not hold your breath waiting for that apology. there is a certain mindset niyad Apr 2017 #144
I can't even imagine athena Apr 2017 #149
it is better not to imgaine such disgusting things. niyad Apr 2017 #152
LOL. You're right. athena Apr 2017 #153
+1,000 I don't recognize this place these days malaise Apr 2017 #204
some days it is a puzzlement niyad Apr 2017 #246
NY Daily News writing about his previous run ins with the law... I'm NoMoreRepugs Apr 2017 #115
totally agree steve2470 Apr 2017 #130
My daughter may contact him . . . OldRedneck Apr 2017 #117
Woot! get the red out Apr 2017 #135
Let's ignore, for the moment, the wisdom.... LAS14 Apr 2017 #119
here's the thing to me. d_r Apr 2017 #128
Good point. No attempt to de-escalate the situation. nt LAS14 Apr 2017 #141
Please stop it with the "inappropriate reaction". The man was a 69 year old Vietnamese immigrant. haele Apr 2017 #154
I'm with you. Lifelong Protester Apr 2017 #158
Well thats fine d_r Apr 2017 #166
To begin with... Zambero Apr 2017 #131
It's an abuse of the system. athena Apr 2017 #137
Exactly.I am so fucking sick of the corporate shills -- United has also killed a bunch of pets anneboleyn Apr 2017 #162
Really, they should just up the compensation offers until someone accepts. n/t PoliticAverse Apr 2017 #177
An excellent solution Zambero Apr 2017 #245
WHAT LEGAL order??? why were the police even there in the first place? WHAT LeGAL ORDER niyad Apr 2017 #148
The one thing overlooked about this tikka Apr 2017 #126
And yet they still get the money for those no-shows. (nt) bekkilyn Apr 2017 #133
STOP THE STEREOTYPING onetexan Apr 2017 #136
did they treat a non-minority this way? niyad Apr 2017 #151
Did a non-minority refuse to vacate the seat when asked? eom tarheelsunc Apr 2017 #210
did they DEMAND that a non-minority give up a legally purchased and occupied seat? niyad Apr 2017 #247
I am not defending ANYTHING. tarheelsunc Apr 2017 #261
you do not KNOW that a white person would have received the same disgusting treatment niyad Apr 2017 #262
And you do not KNOW that they wouldn't have. eom tarheelsunc Apr 2017 #263
perhaps not, but we can sure make a good guess. niyad Apr 2017 #264
Lol! Squinch Apr 2017 #178
The doc said that it was because he was a Chinese man HoneyBadger Apr 2017 #231
Don't feed the trolls, guys. n/t Stand and Fight Apr 2017 #155
Thanks for this post! I have blocked three posters now who have been posting unbelievable, hostile anneboleyn Apr 2017 #156
I must have put at least twenty people on ignore since yesterday. athena Apr 2017 #159
a well bred family of drs. bdamomma Apr 2017 #157
Corporations are not all alike. United is seeming like one go the bad ones. delisen Apr 2017 #173
I had heard he started screaming when he was tazed .......... unconfirmed Angry Dragon Apr 2017 #176
I wondered my self about that duncang Apr 2017 #199
interesting, thanks Fast Walker 52 Apr 2017 #212
He's 69 years old? They beat up a senior citizen? McCamy Taylor Apr 2017 #193
yes they did onetexan Apr 2017 #233
This is a microcosm of how "free enterprise" ... Fantastic Anarchist Apr 2017 #200
this post was so much better than I feared it would be Fast Walker 52 Apr 2017 #211
I think the fact that he is from Vietnam may have something to do with the obvious fear HoneyBadger Apr 2017 #229
Certainly they could have found at least BlueMTexpat Apr 2017 #235
While there is no confusion about Dr. Dao's being a doctor, BlueMTexpat Apr 2017 #240
Wow people get angry because facts are reported HopeAgain Apr 2017 #243
They probably thought he was Chinese JonLP24 Apr 2017 #248

exboyfil

(17,853 posts)
1. All American family
Tue Apr 11, 2017, 09:33 AM
Apr 2017

God it can get no worse for United.

Internal medicine specialist who apparently is very concerned about his patients.

Should have offered the college students on the plane some extra fun money. Would have saved a lot of headaches.

$800 Voucher and $200 Cash - Raise my hand.

Zing Zing Zingbah

(6,496 posts)
13. Yeah, that was a bad decision for United.
Tue Apr 11, 2017, 09:48 AM
Apr 2017

The man had a good reason for staying on the flight. They should have looked for some young people, as you said. A lot of them would have liked the extra cash.

 

randome

(34,845 posts)
3. Yeah, he could have been afraid he was about to be deported.
Tue Apr 11, 2017, 09:34 AM
Apr 2017

That adds some texture to the incident.
[hr][font color="blue"][center]"There is a crack in everything. That's how the light gets in."
Leonard Cohen, Anthem (1992)
[/center][/font][hr]

 

randome

(34,845 posts)
27. Not at all. It was a legitimate question.
Tue Apr 11, 2017, 10:09 AM
Apr 2017

'Typical' doctors don't scream and flail about when confronted by police.
[hr][font color="blue"][center]"There is a crack in everything. That's how the light gets in."
Leonard Cohen, Anthem (1992)
[/center][/font][hr]

 

randome

(34,845 posts)
37. One who might state his dilemma rather than scream and fight the police.
Tue Apr 11, 2017, 10:19 AM
Apr 2017

I suppose I'm biased that way. Of course we don't know if he perhaps did. We don't know anything before or after the video, which gives us a narrow view of what occurred.
[hr][font color="blue"][center]"There is a crack in everything. That's how the light gets in."
Leonard Cohen, Anthem (1992)
[/center][/font][hr]

LakeArenal

(28,673 posts)
50. Okay Judgey Judgerton... You are right you don't know ...
Tue Apr 11, 2017, 10:52 AM
Apr 2017

yet there's your judgement for a "typical doctor". God forbid a doctor should express emotion at being dragged off a plane.

 

randome

(34,845 posts)
52. His immigration status and past conviction may have made him a little jumpy around the police.
Tue Apr 11, 2017, 10:55 AM
Apr 2017

As I stated from the start, we did not know all the particulars about this situation. We know more now. I wish there had been video before and after he was forced from the plane so we would know what approach the police used.
[hr][font color="blue"][center]"There is a crack in everything. That's how the light gets in."
Leonard Cohen, Anthem (1992)
[/center][/font][hr]

 

randome

(34,845 posts)
55. That's most of what we do on DU.
Tue Apr 11, 2017, 11:03 AM
Apr 2017

[hr][font color="blue"][center]"There is a crack in everything. That's how the light gets in."
Leonard Cohen, Anthem (1992)
[/center][/font][hr]

Eliot Rosewater

(31,087 posts)
102. Some people will ALWAYS defend Wall Street and so on.
Tue Apr 11, 2017, 12:10 PM
Apr 2017

It is part of our national brainwashing dilemma.

Independent thinkers who dont assume they know everything is what we need, thank you for exhibiting this.

cannabis_flower

(3,762 posts)
59. What past conviction?
Tue Apr 11, 2017, 11:08 AM
Apr 2017

I didn't see anything in the article about a conviction and haven't heard anything on the news?

 

randome

(34,845 posts)
63. He was convicted of selling painkillers. Had his license revoked but re-acquired.
Tue Apr 11, 2017, 11:17 AM
Apr 2017
https://www.democraticunderground.com/10028917617

That doesn't excuse what occurred but the fact that he refused to leave when ordered by police does make me wonder what was going through his head at the time.
[hr][font color="blue"][center]"There is a crack in everything. That's how the light gets in."
Leonard Cohen, Anthem (1992)
[/center][/font][hr]

HelenWheels

(2,284 posts)
67. What kind of police
Tue Apr 11, 2017, 11:27 AM
Apr 2017

The man wearing jeans and a jacket with Police on it didn't look like an officer to me. And when they approached the doctor did they show their credentials?

 

randome

(34,845 posts)
71. Yeah, I'm confused about whether they were police or security guards.
Tue Apr 11, 2017, 11:33 AM
Apr 2017

And we don't know what occurred before or after the video, which gives us a very narrow viewpoint.
[hr][font color="blue"][center]"There is a crack in everything. That's how the light gets in."
Leonard Cohen, Anthem (1992)
[/center][/font][hr]

BlancheSplanchnik

(20,219 posts)
208. Hired by UA. In the same way DAPL corp. hired security officers
Tue Apr 11, 2017, 08:21 PM
Apr 2017

To "rough up" the Water Protectors "a little".

JonLP24

(29,322 posts)
249. He paid for his flight
Thu Apr 13, 2017, 01:08 PM
Apr 2017

All that is irrelevant because United had no idea who he was when they dragged him and caused physical not to mention emotional injuries. United fucked up as they should keep seats open for emergencies and they should occur at the ticket counter and not when everyone is sitting in their seats.

 

randome

(34,845 posts)
250. Yes, he paid for a flight, not for a specific seat on a specific plane.
Thu Apr 13, 2017, 01:50 PM
Apr 2017

I agree his occupation is irrelevant but that was one of the first things pushed in front here on DU. Then there were the rumors that he had patients waiting on him and that he was definitely tased.

And actually, United didn't cause any physical injuries. The police did that and it appears from the video that it resulted from his losing his death-grip on his seat and the officer's momentum causing Dao to hit his head on the opposing row of seats.

I'm just trying to look at things without bias and that's how it appears to me.
[hr][font color="blue"][center]Aspire to inspire.[/center][/font][hr]

JonLP24

(29,322 posts)
251. Both parties are responsible -- United and the Chicago PD.
Thu Apr 13, 2017, 02:04 PM
Apr 2017

Like I said this was easily preventable situation if United or keep asking passengers until someone is willing to give it up. Everyone was already in their seats. That's how it looks to me.

 

randome

(34,845 posts)
252. No company operates without limits on compensation of some sort.
Thu Apr 13, 2017, 02:14 PM
Apr 2017

This idea that we should encourage the passengers' natural greed to come to the rescue sounds a little Libertarian-ish to me, to be honest.

Mostly I would lay the blame on the police officers or security officers. There seems to be some confusion as to their actual positions.

But United did not try to rough this man up so I also don't understand the need to blame them for what a police officer did.

Neither did the police, imo, it was simply an accident when he lost his death-grip on his chair.

An overused term is "shit happens". When a corporation is involved, that term implies we should all simply follow a corporation's orders and forget about having free will. When a member of a minority is involved, that term implies that minorities should mind their betters.

A corporation and a member of a minority are involved in this situation. Yet even then, sometimes, shit happens. I don't see the need to put the blame squarely on one side or the other. UA should pay this man's medical bills and give him lifetime flying privileges, but the idea that he should somehow end up owning the airline is ridiculous.
[hr][font color="blue"][center]Aspire to inspire.[/center][/font][hr]

JonLP24

(29,322 posts)
253. I'll let the lawsuit sort all this out
Thu Apr 13, 2017, 02:18 PM
Apr 2017

If anything he probably doesn't want to fly again. As far as owning the Airline, UA is going to be looking to settle, trust me the law firm will get offers to avoid this going into a court room.

 

randome

(34,845 posts)
254. I have no doubt that's true.
Thu Apr 13, 2017, 02:23 PM
Apr 2017

It happened on their watch and their property so they should do what they can to make up for it.
[hr][font color="blue"][center]Aspire to inspire.[/center][/font][hr]

liberalhistorian

(20,809 posts)
259. That was subsequently discovered to be
Thu Apr 13, 2017, 03:11 PM
Apr 2017

someone else with the same name, not this doctor. Don't be too quick to believe the corporate and corporate media spin machine. And that's' another thing this doctor can sue for, being smeared like that, because it wouldn't have taken too much work at all to determine they had the wrong person before going public with it.

And it doesn't matter anyway, nothing at all justifies that kind of treatment and his subsequent injuries, which include a concussion. He was not a criminal, he was a paying passenger who needed to be back in Louisville by the next morning to see his patients who were depending on him. He couldn't wait the goddamn 24 hours they were demanding he wait and who the hell would want to have to do that, anyway? I sure wouldn't. They should have just gone on to someone else, for Christ's sake. I'd have been very upset too, if confronted like that. People aren't allowed to be human on airplanes anymore, they're expected to happily and peacefully take any shit shoved at them at all or they're in trouble. What bullshit.

United's lack of preparation and planning is not the problem of its paying customers, including this doctor. The plane was not overbooked. They realized too late that they needed to get four employees to Louisville for other flights, and they realized it AFTER the plane was already fully boarded and set to go and not before. First of all, they should have known a lot sooner than that. Second, they could have rented a car to go the 300 miles from Chicago to Louisville. Anything they could have done will now be a helluva lot cheaper than what it's going to cost them, both in lost revenue from disgusted passengers (and they've already lost over a billion dollars this week alone) and what they'll have to rightfully shell out to this doctor. Take your defense of police state tactics and corporate Profit Uber Alles and shove it.

 

randome

(34,845 posts)
265. The doctor's identity is irrelevant. And, in fact, it's been 'proven' that the first ID was correct.
Thu Apr 13, 2017, 03:18 PM
Apr 2017

I only addressed his bonafides since DU was breathlessly proclaiming that not only was he an important man but he no doubt had many desperate patients waiting for his return!

I don't see any 'corporate spin' coming out of the likes of the DailyMail and whatever news source they referenced, I forget the name, somethingCourier? United did not -apparently- have anything to do with publishing details of this man's life.

I don't know how well an airline can plan for weather conditions at all of its hubs in the country. Apparently things had turned so bad that the 4 employees were urgently needed elsewhere. But they should have had another way of getting them there. It was pointed out that if they were pilots, renting a car would not do the trick since there are strict rules in place about # of hours a pilot must sleep before taking command.

Regardless, if there is blame to be apportioned to the actors involved, it seems like the police (or security guards) are the ones to bear the brunt of it, and even then it appears from the video that the injury was an accident.

United did not -so far as we know- direct a guard to injure anyone.
[hr][font color="blue"][center]Aspire to inspire.[/center][/font][hr]

liberalhistorian

(20,809 posts)
266. No, United shares equal blame.
Thu Apr 13, 2017, 03:21 PM
Apr 2017

Its employees didn't need to go nuclear and call the goon squad to deal with what they should have dealt with themselves. There were nearly two hundred other passengers on board, they could have gone on and picked another one. THEY escalated it themselves. It is equally their fault.

lillypaddle

(9,580 posts)
242. Hey, you're welcome
Wed Apr 12, 2017, 08:43 AM
Apr 2017

Ran across it by chance, didn't really know the best place to post it for the highest visibility. Feel free to repost it elsewhere.

 

cwydro

(51,308 posts)
49. Well, he certainly is NOT a "typical doctor."
Tue Apr 11, 2017, 10:45 AM
Apr 2017

Read the other thread about him on this page.

Some not so pretty facts about him. They may have no bearing on this incident, but he certainly is not a typical doctor.

 

janterry

(4,429 posts)
56. Clearly the airline handled this terribly
Tue Apr 11, 2017, 11:04 AM
Apr 2017

but I find it strange that he ran back into the plane. If I were dragged off the plane by security - for any reason, I'd be trying to find someone in authority to talk to and complain.

Perhaps he was so disoriented? IDK. If it wasn't something physical (unique to his injury), it's pretty odd. Once you get dragged out of anywhere - for any reason (even the wrong reason), it's hard to think that you would reclaim your seat and the airplane would lift off.

One good thing that might come from all of this is a policy change. Bumping people should be very (VERY) infrequent -

PotatoChip

(3,186 posts)
170. They let him back on and he was presumably going/running (didn't see that part) back to his seat.
Tue Apr 11, 2017, 03:14 PM
Apr 2017

My guess is that they knew they were in the wrong, otherwise they would not have let him back on.

As for how this whole thing came about, this video does a good job of explaining. You can skip to the 1:45 mark where she shows the video and explains the back story.

womanofthehills

(8,547 posts)
195. Someone seated near him on plane said his head hit the floor and he was out for a bit
Tue Apr 11, 2017, 06:56 PM
Apr 2017

Sounds maybe like a concussion. He seemed very disoriented.

Laffy Kat

(16,331 posts)
186. I'be been working in healthcare for thirty years.
Tue Apr 11, 2017, 04:19 PM
Apr 2017

Not sure I understand what a "typical doctor" should act/look like? They are all human and have their own idiosyncrasies. Please explain "typical". Thanks.

ProfessorPlum

(11,251 posts)
57. It was a shitty question
Tue Apr 11, 2017, 11:06 AM
Apr 2017

and here you are defending it again.

Look, it doesn't matter what the person's profession is - no one should be treated like that.

But to try to diffuse the horror of what was going on by throwing up dust about whether the victim was lying about being a doctor is just troll-ish behavior and seriously anti-human.

Stop defending this behavior. It is immoral, and now we see also factually wrong.

 

randome

(34,845 posts)
60. I'm simply trying to be objective.
Tue Apr 11, 2017, 11:09 AM
Apr 2017

When a passenger is ordered to leave and refuses to do so, how should the situation have been handled? Cancel the flight entirely? The video does not show the police 'beating' the man, as some have exclaimed. It does show the guy hitting his head on the seats across from him but that looks to be because the police were dragging him out of his seat and the guy likely lost his grip on his seat.

Again, how should the police react when a passenger refuses an order to leave?
[hr][font color="blue"][center]"There is a crack in everything. That's how the light gets in."
Leonard Cohen, Anthem (1992)
[/center][/font][hr]

ProfessorPlum

(11,251 posts)
65. no, you are not being objective
Tue Apr 11, 2017, 11:25 AM
Apr 2017

You apparently think that if someone claims to be a doctor, and they aren't actually a doctor, it justifies manhandling them and dragging them off.


"Again, how should the police react when a passenger refuses an order to leave? "

This is the fascist/police state's main question. I mean, we order someone to do something, and they don't comply, well, what are we supposed to do? Lay hands on them immediately, obviously and wrench and pull them, suppress and sedate them, taser and club them, bash them and beat them . . . ..


THE ANSWER TO THIS QUESTION IS . . . TALK!!!! Talk talk talk, talk till you are blue in the face, maintain a dialog, keep talking, talk until some kind of understanding happens. Talk until an agreement can be reached. Talk. Talk. TALK.

THAT is what police officers or security officers or anyone else SHOULD DO if someone doesn't "comply" with their "orders". Unless someone is in immediate physical danger, you talk. Maybe in the end they will do what you want. Maybe you will find some other solution to the issue together. Laying hands on another person should be the ABSOLUTE LAST RESORT, and never done out of convenience or impatience. People's bodily integrity needs to be RESPECTED and MAINTAINED.

I know you won't understand this.

 

randome

(34,845 posts)
77. No, the implication from the start is that if the man is a doctor, he is more deserving of respect.
Tue Apr 11, 2017, 11:39 AM
Apr 2017

I disagree with that. We don't know what occurred before or after the video, which gives us a very narrow viewpoint. It sounds like UA did everything they could to avoid playing the 'fine print clause' of the boarding agreement. Maybe they should have canceled the flight for everyone but then all the passengers would likely blame Dr. Dao for that.

Situations are different when on a plane, which is a narrow and confining space. You can't let one passenger hold the entire plane hostage, can you? What about when a passenger is drunk and loud and distracting everyone? Do the police have the right to use force then?

I would guess the same criteria apply when a passenger refuses to leave for whatever reason.
[hr][font color="blue"][center]"There is a crack in everything. That's how the light gets in."
Leonard Cohen, Anthem (1992)
[/center][/font][hr]

ProfessorPlum

(11,251 posts)
83. MAYBE they should have offered $100 more, or $200 more, or $300 more
Tue Apr 11, 2017, 11:44 AM
Apr 2017

until they got some more volunteers. maybe they should have TALKED to all of the passengers more about what their options were. Maybe they should have rented a car and driver for their flight crew.




If your point was that everyone deserves respect, not just doctors, then why did you impugn the man by implying he was lying about being a doctor? you agree with my point, which is that no one deserves to be treated that way, so why kick up dust about his profession?



You just want to justify violence against people who don't obey.

 

randome

(34,845 posts)
91. But they did keep offering more, until they reached the maximum they had to offer.
Tue Apr 11, 2017, 11:52 AM
Apr 2017

Should the passengers have held out for $10,000 or more of compensation? That would simply make the passengers turn on one another for the additional delay.

I questioned his authenticity because everyone kept bringing up the fact that he was a doctor and no doubt had desperate patients he needed to serve. Right from the start, these enormous assumptions were made.

And now? Now this is all evidence of fascism, class warfare, racism, corportocracy, authoritarianism, and on and on and on. I expect to see a Nazi reference soon.

When all this really was about was a passenger who refused to get off the plane. He is Vietnamese and he's on probation, which may explain his reluctance to go with police, but we have a somewhat fuller picture today than we did yesterday.
[hr][font color="blue"][center]"There is a crack in everything. That's how the light gets in."
Leonard Cohen, Anthem (1992)
[/center][/font][hr]

bekkilyn

(454 posts)
93. They offered *vouchers* not *money*
Tue Apr 11, 2017, 11:56 AM
Apr 2017

And those vouchers come with restrictions that may just not work for a lot of people unless they fly frequently. Not to mention that people schedule transportation with the idea that they need to reach their destinations by certain times, and so a $400 or $800 voucher isn't going to make up for someone missing their father's funeral or daughter's wedding after they've already paid for the service and were in the process of receiving the service.

ProfessorPlum

(11,251 posts)
95. "the maximum they had to offer" a self-imposed maximum
Tue Apr 11, 2017, 11:58 AM
Apr 2017

if it was worth it to get that flight crew on that flight, then they had to pay more. And yes, of course, people on the flight can hold out until the airline reaches whatever amount of money will be enough for them. that's the market. They each had seats that they bought and paid for. The airline can buy them back at the amount that market will command.

And if you say that the airline is within its rights to kick some people off, that they don't have to honor their contract with ticket holders, well, ok, but they have to honor and preserve their passengers bodily integrity. If that takes some extra time in finding the right four people to remove, then boo hoo. They need to explain, talk, wheedle, cajole, convince, urge, and wheel and deal until they can make it right.

NOT resort to violence. NOT physically force someone against their will. NOT act like a fascist organization.

I expect that you will see a lot of Nazi references about your posts.

JHB

(37,122 posts)
185. The company-imposed limit is the _Company's_ problem
Tue Apr 11, 2017, 04:17 PM
Apr 2017

Should they have offered $10K? Sure, if necessary, but it's highly unlikely it would be.

This entire crisis was due to the company's self-imposed limitations on what could be offered to already-seated passengers to essentially buy back their ticket under circumstances that make it a seller's market.

They gambled that vouchers were sufficient, and lost. They're useless for infrequent flyers, and usually come with too many restrictions and hassle to redeem to be sufficient inducement for frequent flyers.

The people on-site needed to be able to switch up: maybe cash, maybe just straight company credit (with no restrictions or time limit), or combo, and the ability to go higher. Go up until they get takers. The fact that the employees couldn't do that and that there was no one at a higher level available to provide authorization is the company's fault.

bekkilyn

(454 posts)
90. No they did not do "everything they could"
Tue Apr 11, 2017, 11:51 AM
Apr 2017

All they did was offer some vouchers, which apparently wasn't enough to convince *any* of the passengers on the plane to volunteer to leave. They could have offered cash. They could have offered cash and first class seats on a different flight. They could surely have found something that four people on a packed flight would have wanted.

They could have even gotten a charter plane to get the employees where they needed to go. There's plenty of things they could have done before ever even *thinking* of laying a hand on anyone, doctor or otherwise.

But no, the choice was either for legitimate, paying passengers to take the voucher that no one wanted or to be brutalized by security.

A company should not punish their customers for their own ineptness or mistakes. The passengers did nothing wrong and simply expected to receive the service they paid for.

I'm baffled as to why you are so staunchly defending United.

 

randome

(34,845 posts)
96. I'm pointing out that if the scheduling situation was as dire as some have said...
Tue Apr 11, 2017, 12:01 PM
Apr 2017

...due to weather conditions, then they would likely have had hundreds if not thousands of pissed-off passengers in Louisville so they decided that 4 pissed-off passengers in Chicago was a better bet.

That's just my speculation. Planes are 'special'. They are cramped and confining. When an airline official or a police officer or a security guard tells you to leave, you do not screech and flail about the way he did. That's a sure-fire way to make things worse all around.
[hr][font color="blue"][center]"There is a crack in everything. That's how the light gets in."
Leonard Cohen, Anthem (1992)
[/center][/font][hr]

ProfessorPlum

(11,251 posts)
98. DON'T RESIST CITIZEN. OBEY. OBEY YOUR CORPORATE MASTERS
Tue Apr 11, 2017, 12:05 PM
Apr 2017

OR YOU WILL BE DEALT WITH PHYSICALLY. DO NOT TRY TO EXPLAIN YOURSELF OR YOU WILL BE BEATEN.

BEATINGS WILL CONTINUE UNTIL MORALE IMPROVES . .. THE CHOCOLATE RATION IS UP . . .

bekkilyn

(454 posts)
103. If someone is grabbing and threatening me with physical violence
Tue Apr 11, 2017, 12:10 PM
Apr 2017

you better believe I would be screeching and defending myself as anyone should do. To point out that people should meekly and compliantly agree to be brutalized is ridiculous, but that's probably why these airlines have gotten away with this outrageous behavior for so long in the first place.

 

randome

(34,845 posts)
116. We don't know what occurred before the video.
Tue Apr 11, 2017, 12:20 PM
Apr 2017

Maybe he was politely asked to leave over and over and refused to do so. We don't know.
[hr][font color="blue"][center]"There is a crack in everything. That's how the light gets in."
Leonard Cohen, Anthem (1992)
[/center][/font][hr]

bekkilyn

(454 posts)
125. There was no good reason for him to have been required to leave in the first place
Tue Apr 11, 2017, 12:29 PM
Apr 2017

If no one wanted to voluntarily give up the service they paid for, the airline needed to make other arrangements for their employees or offer compensation that people actually want.

 

randome

(34,845 posts)
129. That sounds reasonable. But maybe there were no alternatives.
Tue Apr 11, 2017, 12:41 PM
Apr 2017

I kind of doubt UA decided that pissing off their passengers was anything but a last resort.

And how high do you go before it becomes bribery instead of compensation?

They tried their first batch of offers and nothing took. I'm sure the police or security guards or whatever did not expect someone to react the way he did.
[hr][font color="blue"][center]"There is a crack in everything. That's how the light gets in."
Leonard Cohen, Anthem (1992)
[/center][/font][hr]

LeftInTX

(24,417 posts)
140. He probably refused and then security was called
Tue Apr 11, 2017, 01:14 PM
Apr 2017

They should have just gone down the list to the next passenger instead of calling security. Two other passengers went. They would have found other passengers.

Dr. Dao probably was not aware that planes can legally bump you. I did not know that there were actually federal laws that allow them to bump you. Another DUer posted the regulations yesterday. I would have freaked out too if was forced to leave a plane.

BannonsLiver

(16,133 posts)
215. It's bribery the minute they offer it
Tue Apr 11, 2017, 09:25 PM
Apr 2017

See, when an airline offers you money to get off the plane it's an INDUCEMENT, not "compensation".

bdamomma

(63,562 posts)
161. apparently they randomly selected his name.
Tue Apr 11, 2017, 01:56 PM
Apr 2017

again, no one should be treated the way he was treated.

tblue37

(64,860 posts)
167. This girl was "asked politely" to leave the classroom--first by the teacher,
Tue Apr 11, 2017, 03:03 PM
Apr 2017

and then by the cop when she refused. The cop started of by "ask(ing) politely," but when she still refused he got all "Respect mah authoritah" on her and threw her across the darned classroom. She was being an ass, no doubt, but the cop went from polite to brutal as soon as she failed to respect his authoritah.

Wanna bet there was a strong thread of that response from the cops going on here?

<iframe width="640" height="360" src="

" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>
 

randome

(34,845 posts)
169. But we don't know how much the police tried to talk Dr. Dao out of the plane.
Tue Apr 11, 2017, 03:12 PM
Apr 2017

All we have are videos, which offer a limited viewpoint and a short window of time. His screeching and flailing about doomed him to be forcibly ejected, I bet. No planeload of passengers wants to be sitting with someone who acts like that. I would bet they would have been nervous around him if he'd been allowed to stay.

The fact that he was injured is not necessarily a part of the same theme. When police decide they need to forcibly remove someone, they use...force. Did they try alternatives? We don't know, do we?
[hr][font color="blue"][center]"There is a crack in everything. That's how the light gets in."
Leonard Cohen, Anthem (1992)
[/center][/font][hr]

EX500rider

(10,448 posts)
183. "To point out that people should meekly and compliantly agree to be brutalized is ridiculous"
Tue Apr 11, 2017, 04:05 PM
Apr 2017

Actually if he had "meekly complied" none of this would have happened. He would have walked off the plane, and booked another flight or rented a car to go the 300 miles.

Usually best to do what the guys with guns say and straighten it out later.

bekkilyn

(454 posts)
191. Which means it would never have gotten straightened out
Tue Apr 11, 2017, 05:54 PM
Apr 2017

And the meek and compliant man would have lost the time and money he spent on the plane only to spend more of his time and money trying to book another flight or renting a car that he would have had to drive himself.

HOW IN THE WORLD WOULD THAT HELP HIM??? Why is this problem on him or ANY of the other passengers? He did nothing wrong!

This entire thing happened because of United's ineptitude and incompetence, not because a victim decided he wanted to keep the service he paid for. United had no ethical reason to throw him or any of the other paying passengers off of that plane.

I hope United has to fly empty planes for the next 10 years or more. Plenty of room for their employees now.

delisen

(6,036 posts)
172. and if he had a condition that might cause him to be easily frightened or disoriented?
Tue Apr 11, 2017, 03:33 PM
Apr 2017

Please consider that people with autism, mental illness, some with mental incapacity have a right to travel by plane. (Yes they are likely to be traveling with caregivers-but that would not seem to have changed the airlines intervention) The random selection and authoritarian announcements are not a wise way to deal with passengers who have purchased a service.

Consider those flying to weddings, funerals, dying relatives.

Airlines have been given many rights by our society. We have a right to be treated with respect.

Since 9/11 too many Americans have gotten used to not being treated with respect.

You seem to expect the passenger to to act more responsibly than the corporate decision-makers.

Even imperfect people have a right to travel. Corporate policies need to take this into account



 

randome

(34,845 posts)
174. A plane full of passengers is 'special'. Confining space. Nowhere to go.
Tue Apr 11, 2017, 03:40 PM
Apr 2017

You can be an ass on the street but not so much on a plane.

But you're right, not taking into account someone's possible physical state could have made things much worse. But what could they have done? Taken an on-the-spot medical history to decide? Asked him if he would prefer to stay because of some medical problem?

The police no doubt did not expect him to react the way he did. Things got worse very quickly.

I think this was more of a perfect storm than a sign of fascism/racism/authoritarianism/corporate overlords/class warfare/{insert bad thing here}.

A lamentable situation likely caused by UA and a passenger who freaked out about it. It's a recipe that no one wants a taste of.
[hr][font color="blue"][center]"There is a crack in everything. That's how the light gets in."
Leonard Cohen, Anthem (1992)
[/center][/font][hr]

bekkilyn

(454 posts)
192. What United should have done was take responsibility for their own ineptitude
Tue Apr 11, 2017, 05:57 PM
Apr 2017

and made other plans for their employees. Not try to pass the problem off on any of their paying customers who should never have even been made aware there was a problem in he first place. It was fully an internal issue and should have been resolved internally.

Tanuki

(14,887 posts)
179. It has occurred to me that someone his age growing up in Viet Nam is likely to have experienced
Tue Apr 11, 2017, 03:54 PM
Apr 2017

significant trauma. Being ordered off the plane, arbitrarily and in an exceedingly authoritarian manner, could have triggered an ungodly amount of repressed terrible memories. I am so sorry that this stupid, unnecessary set of indignities and aggression was unleashed on him.

delisen

(6,036 posts)
190. Agree. Plus too many police seem to be trained to bark orders at people
Tue Apr 11, 2017, 05:01 PM
Apr 2017

and make situations worse. The subject of such a command may not be able to process.

LisaM

(27,748 posts)
202. They could have driven them there. It was only four hours away!
Tue Apr 11, 2017, 07:27 PM
Apr 2017

That's the part I don't get. It wasn't cross country. It was a few hours away. Hire a limo.

tazkcmo

(7,280 posts)
257. Only typical doctors you mean.
Thu Apr 13, 2017, 03:07 PM
Apr 2017

You know, the ones that conform to your preconceived, "objective biases. The REAL doctors.

 

randome

(34,845 posts)
258. Yes.
Thu Apr 13, 2017, 03:09 PM
Apr 2017

On the other hand, his profession should be irrelevant. I only addressed it because that was one of the major points being pushed on DU.
[hr][font color="blue"][center]Aspire to inspire.[/center][/font][hr]

 

mythology

(9,527 posts)
80. So if I were to be trespassing in your house, you'd
Tue Apr 11, 2017, 11:41 AM
Apr 2017

Do nothing other than talk to encourage me to leave? That's a ludicrous standard.

If they spend hours talking to the guy it delays everybody else on the plane. He wasn't respecting the integrity of everyone else on the plane. The passenger, the security and United all screwed up. None of them acted like responsible grownups.

ProfessorPlum

(11,251 posts)
85. TALKING is what responsible grownups do
Tue Apr 11, 2017, 11:46 AM
Apr 2017

More jaw jaw and less war war.

And, if someone were trespassing in my home, I'd expect the police to take them in hand with as little violence as possible, and to talk if talking would resolve the situation without violence, _especially_ if no one was in further physical danger.

bekkilyn

(454 posts)
97. The man wasn't trespassing
Tue Apr 11, 2017, 12:05 PM
Apr 2017

He was a legitimate, paying customer on the plane who was in process of receiving the expected service that he paid for. If anyone was disrespecting the integrity of passengers, it was United.

BadgerMom

(2,765 posts)
142. Find another means of getting the crew to Louisville
Tue Apr 11, 2017, 01:20 PM
Apr 2017

Talk. Offer more incentives. Remember, he was not the only one on the plane. His name was drawn randomly. With a good enough incentive, another passenger might have taken United up on its offer. If all else fails, recognize you've failed in planning for your crew and buy them tickets on some other manner of transport. United's behavior is indefensible. The court of public opinion will bear that out.

tblue37

(64,860 posts)
218. The plane ended up being delayed two hours anyway--and part of the delay was because they had to
Tue Apr 11, 2017, 09:57 PM
Apr 2017

clean up his blood that had sprayed so many of the armrests.

And that 4-person crew who needed those seats toute suite? They consequently ended up being late to get to that, oh, so important flight in Lousiville anyway.

Well played, United. You screwed the pooch in every possible way on that one.

I can't wait to hear about the lawsuit and the settlement.

Demsrule86

(68,217 posts)
72. Why should doctors be treated differently?
Tue Apr 11, 2017, 11:35 AM
Apr 2017

He was a person and United kicked him off...tasered him and gave him a concussion...all so their employees could hitch a ride somewhere... it is disgraceful...and there can be no justification for United's behavior...with all the attacks on the brown skinned in Trump's America who knows what he feared. Screw United.

 

randome

(34,845 posts)
82. There is no evidence of tasering, despite some DUers pushing that possibility.
Tue Apr 11, 2017, 11:42 AM
Apr 2017

There is no evidence the police gave anyone a concussion. From the video it appears they were pulling him out and the guy lost his grip on his seat, resulting in him banging his head against the opposing row of seats.

Doctors should not be treated differently. That's why it was unnecessary to have brought up his profession in the first place.
[hr][font color="blue"][center]"There is a crack in everything. That's how the light gets in."
Leonard Cohen, Anthem (1992)
[/center][/font][hr]

 

randome

(34,845 posts)
121. I'm not blaming the victim.
Tue Apr 11, 2017, 12:23 PM
Apr 2017

I am saying that there is no way to forcefully remove a passenger from a plane without using force. I'm saying the video shows the guy hitting his head on the opposing row of seats and that there is no evidence he was 'beaten' or tased.

That's all. Precision and concision is my game.
[hr][font color="blue"][center]"There is a crack in everything. That's how the light gets in."
Leonard Cohen, Anthem (1992)
[/center][/font][hr]

pnwmom

(108,914 posts)
214. If a passenger were ordered to undress and do jumping jacks, must he comply?
Tue Apr 11, 2017, 09:17 PM
Apr 2017

No. Passengers aren't required to follow illegal orders. And this order was illegal. Neither Rule 21 nor 25 gave the airline the right to eject him from his seat.

brush

(53,331 posts)
66. That "flailing about", as you describe it, was most likely from being tazed and rendered unconscious
Tue Apr 11, 2017, 11:27 AM
Apr 2017

His face was also bloodied.

Pretty typical behavior for a human being subjected to that.

And pls. note everyone. They picked a POC to do that to.

Just the most horrendous series of decisions any company which serves the public could make.

It's like don't they know, PEOPLE HAVE CELL PHONE CAMERAS WITH VIDEO CAPABILITY IN THEIR POCKETS AND PURSES NOW.

You can't get away with this stuff nowadays. Cops also had to learn this and were very slow about it, and some still haven't figured it out.

 

randome

(34,845 posts)
84. I seriously doubt he was tazed. There is nothing that supports that possibility.
Tue Apr 11, 2017, 11:45 AM
Apr 2017

[hr][font color="blue"][center]"There is a crack in everything. That's how the light gets in."
Leonard Cohen, Anthem (1992)
[/center][/font][hr]

brush

(53,331 posts)
89. Guess you've never seen videos of people being tazed. There is yelling. And how do you account for..
Tue Apr 11, 2017, 11:48 AM
Apr 2017

the man being knocked cold?

 

randome

(34,845 posts)
94. In the video, you see him hit his head against the opposing row of seats.
Tue Apr 11, 2017, 11:57 AM
Apr 2017

That likely occurred because as the police were pulling him away, he lost his grip on his seat. I'm sure the other passengers would have noted the fact that he was being tased. There were enough eyes on the scene to account for that.
[hr][font color="blue"][center]"There is a crack in everything. That's how the light gets in."
Leonard Cohen, Anthem (1992)
[/center][/font][hr]

brush

(53,331 posts)
138. I watched several videos and didn't see him hit his head. Why are you defending this horrific...
Tue Apr 11, 2017, 01:05 PM
Apr 2017

treatment?

 

randome

(34,845 posts)
163. I'm not defending anything. I'm saying he hit his head on the opposing row of seats.
Tue Apr 11, 2017, 01:59 PM
Apr 2017

It was in the first video that was posted, I don't know what thread that was.
[hr][font color="blue"][center]"There is a crack in everything. That's how the light gets in."
Leonard Cohen, Anthem (1992)
[/center][/font][hr]

brush

(53,331 posts)
221. He hit his face or the rough manhandling led to his face hitting the arm rest?
Tue Apr 11, 2017, 10:25 PM
Apr 2017

There is a difference.

tblue37

(64,860 posts)
222. That, I am sure--he was yanked around rather fiercely, so I imagine they hit his face
Tue Apr 11, 2017, 10:31 PM
Apr 2017

on the armrest.

 

randome

(34,845 posts)
111. Oh, come on! Don't get a post hidden on my account! I'm not -as I'm sure you'd agree- worth it!
Tue Apr 11, 2017, 12:13 PM
Apr 2017

And I won't alert on you. I have never alerted on anyone.
[hr][font color="blue"][center]"There is a crack in everything. That's how the light gets in."
Leonard Cohen, Anthem (1992)
[/center][/font][hr]

tarheelsunc

(2,117 posts)
209. "And pls. note everyone. They picked a POC to do that to."
Tue Apr 11, 2017, 08:26 PM
Apr 2017

Pls. note everyone. They picked other people to get off the plane too (and I seriously doubt they were all Asian). They all got off on their own, so force wasn't necessary.

This has nothing to do with race and trying to make it about race will only distract from the real problems.

Demsrule86

(68,217 posts)
69. He was tased from what I heard ...and I would have been furious...
Tue Apr 11, 2017, 11:32 AM
Apr 2017

United sucks...and it sounds like they picked the wrong guy. I hope they pay through their customer no service nose...bastards.

 

randome

(34,845 posts)
87. I feel confident in saying he wasn't tased.
Tue Apr 11, 2017, 11:47 AM
Apr 2017

Actually, they picked the 'right' guy, if you consider the fact that he's on probation for illegally selling painkillers. I doubt he'll do anything but stay quiet and be thankful if he doesn't get his medical license re-revoked over this.
[hr][font color="blue"][center]"There is a crack in everything. That's how the light gets in."
Leonard Cohen, Anthem (1992)
[/center][/font][hr]

Response to randome (Reply #87)

 

randome

(34,845 posts)
108. I'm not at all saying that. Geeze, get over yourself.
Tue Apr 11, 2017, 12:12 PM
Apr 2017

I'm saying I had questions about him. I'm saying that when you are told to leave a plane, you really have no choice but to do so. He chose to act oddly when confronted. Was he afraid he was breaking his probation? Was he afraid of being deported? I don't know. But I do know that forcefully removing a passenger from a plane is often accompanied by...um, force.
[hr][font color="blue"][center]"There is a crack in everything. That's how the light gets in."
Leonard Cohen, Anthem (1992)
[/center][/font][hr]

d_r

(6,907 posts)
124. man, come on
Tue Apr 11, 2017, 12:27 PM
Apr 2017

I don't disagree with your line of thinking but the name calling is over the top. I mean, I get that you are upset, I get your logic, but the name calling diminishes it.

Demsrule86

(68,217 posts)
110. I feel blaming the victim is inappropriate...and too bad for United.
Tue Apr 11, 2017, 12:13 PM
Apr 2017

He went to the hospital...there will be blood work...the convictions is 14 years in the past...and no matter what, United was wrong to treat a customer this way...and so they 'picked' him did they?

 

randome

(34,845 posts)
113. How would one forcefully remove a passenger without the use of force?
Tue Apr 11, 2017, 12:17 PM
Apr 2017

Does one passenger get to hold an entire plane hostage?
[hr][font color="blue"][center]"There is a crack in everything. That's how the light gets in."
Leonard Cohen, Anthem (1992)
[/center][/font][hr]

MontanaMama

(23,219 posts)
184. I find it disturbing that this discussion has gone as
Tue Apr 11, 2017, 04:13 PM
Apr 2017

far as it has. Seriously. United screwed up by not having staff where and when they should have. Forcibly taking passengers who have not broken any rule, law or endangered fellow passengers or flight crew is a bad decision on a multitude of levels. There was NO REASON for airline personnel to touch him in any way. How this man reacted was a fight or flight response to feeling threatened. Holy hell, we let people shoot each other in the streets because they feel threatened and have to "stand their ground". This guy threatened no one and was keeping nobody hostage. United made their poor staffing mistake this man's problem and that's not only wrong, but a piss poor business model. Force should be used when it is indicated and it was not in this case. Where do we draw the line??? Say that you've just checked out at the grocery store with the last carton of milk on the shelf. The store manager comes up to you and says "There's someone who needs that milk and we're out, I need you to give up your carton of milk for him." You refuse, you get the shit kicked out of you? Stop defending this. It is indefensible.

I own a business - I'm screwed stuff up before - I fix it at my expense with an apology to all concerned for any inconvenience. THAT'S what civilized people do.

Heartstrings

(7,349 posts)
196. You can debate this until the cows come home
Tue Apr 11, 2017, 06:56 PM
Apr 2017

still doesn't matter whether or not he was tasered, hit his head, whatever...the man was 69 years old for crying out loud! He was brutally removed from a seat he bought, paid for and was occupying for the sake of a for profit machine. This is an injustice to all of us and you should be backing your fellow citizen...what's next? Gestapo tactics? Sure just come into my house, take whatever you want and lock me up for whatever reason you chose, you don't even need to tell my family where I am or why...

Now is when we need to stand up for one another and the injustices that are being brought against each and every one of us....

You could be next...would you want all of us to have your back or not?

Resist!!

bekkilyn

(454 posts)
203. I've wondered if s/he is arguing just for the sake of arguing
Tue Apr 11, 2017, 07:29 PM
Apr 2017

Either that or just pro-corporate in general. Otherwise, I'm baffled how anyone can defend actions that are so obviously unethical and unjust.

Demsrule86

(68,217 posts)
207. One should not forcibly remove a passenger period so there was no need for any sort of force...
Tue Apr 11, 2017, 08:11 PM
Apr 2017

Customers should not be treated this...way hope he soaks United.

BlueMTexpat

(15,344 posts)
238. Check upthread.
Wed Apr 12, 2017, 06:16 AM
Apr 2017

It appears that the Dr. Dao with a conviction is actually NOT THIS Dr. Dao. I can't seem to find the information anywhere else, but will keep looking.

But if it is true that THIS Dr. Dao is NOT the one with a conviction, there should be LOTS of red faces and LOTS of compensation involved. Our so-called M$M that helped elect the worst US President ever is leading the smear charges: http://dailycaller.com/2017/04/11/journalists-smear-man-dragged-off-united-flight-for-no-apparent-reason/

Unless someone is a white male, the tactic always seems to be "blame the victim."

Demsrule86

(68,217 posts)
241. Slander as well as assault.
Wed Apr 12, 2017, 08:36 AM
Apr 2017

I was proud that even with this nonsense, people still felt United was wrong...and what about corporate media sucking up to United to even run this story? I have not seen this anywhere either.

 

randome

(34,845 posts)
197. He was not tased. No one on the plane said he was.
Tue Apr 11, 2017, 07:04 PM
Apr 2017

We don't know what the police said before the video started. If you want to believe they simply marched onto the plane and started beating him, I guess that's your perogative. But it appears from the video that they were talking to him. How long they tried to convince him to leave, we don't know.

 

randome

(34,845 posts)
201. Someone on the plane would have said it.
Tue Apr 11, 2017, 07:21 PM
Apr 2017

This is part of what I find interesting/ludicrous about this discussion -how very far afield of facts and probabilities it travels.

tazkcmo

(7,280 posts)
255. got a link?
Thu Apr 13, 2017, 03:00 PM
Apr 2017

A study of some kind? FBI profile? Statistical analysis? Anything at all to back that up or is this just your opinion?

 

randome

(34,845 posts)
256. Entirely my opinion. I would not expect a professional man/woman to react w shouting & flailing.
Thu Apr 13, 2017, 03:06 PM
Apr 2017

But with all the back-and-forth about this man's true identity, I'm not sure we can say -even now- we know much about him.
[hr][font color="blue"][center]Aspire to inspire.[/center][/font][hr]

tazkcmo

(7,280 posts)
260. Who cares what YOU would expect?
Thu Apr 13, 2017, 03:12 PM
Apr 2017

I know I've gone through my entire life and will continue to do so without considering, knowing or caring what your expectations are. I'm sure this real doctor is the same. My goodness. You certainly are a self important person expecting people to conform toyour expectations of behavior.

don't bother responding. I put people like this on ignore because of the "objectivity" they display. Good riddance.

hlthe2b

(101,534 posts)
4. first news source to actually do their job and identify the man and confirm he is a physician.
Tue Apr 11, 2017, 09:35 AM
Apr 2017

So, while DM is a rag, at least they did what no other source apparently has on this story.

That CEO needs to be immediately removed and adults (with a clue) brought in... I don't want to see UA fail--Denver is a major hub, but this is unconscionable and they need to be brought to account.

 

WinkyDink

(51,311 posts)
7. Ya know, I read the DM...daily. I have yet to see why it's called a "rag." I read more news there
Tue Apr 11, 2017, 09:38 AM
Apr 2017

than on any American site, perhaps barring only the NYT, and that's a big "perhaps."

hlthe2b

(101,534 posts)
9. Well, they certainly seem to work at getting the story--rather than waiting to be spoon-fed the
Tue Apr 11, 2017, 09:46 AM
Apr 2017

"official line"... So, yeah I do credit them for that.

muriel_volestrangler

(101,082 posts)
28. It's a rag because it runs scare stories about immigrants, and obsesses about female bodies
Tue Apr 11, 2017, 10:10 AM
Apr 2017

and whether they are 'good' or 'bad'. Its attitude is roughly equivalent to Fox News. It has been like this for decades (headline from the 1930s: "Hurrah for the Blackshirts"; it is said its editorial policy was to get every reader outraged about something every day). There's a reason it is satirised like this:

Daily Mail Island, a reality TV show where several normal people are deposited on an island and not allowed access to any media other than the strongly right-wing and conservative Daily Mail newspaper, leading to them becoming progressively more irrational and brutal as the series progresses - for example, tying teenage lovers together with sacks on their heads and beating them,[4] or sealing a teenager caught masturbating into a coffin filled with broken glass and dog faeces and throwing it over a cliff [5] and their language devolving into rhetorical questions and sarcastic snorts.[6]

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/TVGoHome
 

WinkyDink

(51,311 posts)
220. "Scare stories" or lies? There's a difference. And you are SERIOUSLY GOING BACK TO THE 30'S?!
Tue Apr 11, 2017, 10:02 PM
Apr 2017


At least it never had a "Page 3" girl.

muriel_volestrangler

(101,082 posts)
232. Scare stories AND lies. Yes, it does goes back to the thirties. It's been a rag for over 80 years
Wed Apr 12, 2017, 03:43 AM
Apr 2017

It's a family business, the Rothermeres, who have been a succession of right wing hypocrites (they use foreign domicile status to avoid UK taxes, but wrap themselves in the Union Jack), who have used it to push a RW agenda, while treating female celebrities as meat to be oggled and criticised.

You do not want to defend the Mail. Just go to the UK group and ask there about it.

mwooldri

(10,291 posts)
81. When it's competitor is "The Sun" (Murdoch rag)...
Tue Apr 11, 2017, 11:41 AM
Apr 2017

... you might begin to understand the hyper-partisan nature of the UK national press.

A news outlet more aligned with DUs values ? The Guardian, for starters.

madokie

(51,076 posts)
5. And soon to be the new owner of United Airlines
Tue Apr 11, 2017, 09:36 AM
Apr 2017

This old vet loves the Vietnamese People. What we did to them all those years ago was as wrong as wrong can be.

simple as that

FBaggins

(26,681 posts)
48. Not a chance
Tue Apr 11, 2017, 10:43 AM
Apr 2017

But the Chicago Department of Aviation Security had better check their wallets.

United's actions were stupid (they should have continued to raise the bounty until four people took it)... but not actionable. It was law enforcement that assaulted him (or used excessive force).

liberalhistorian

(20,809 posts)
267. The United employees are
Thu Apr 13, 2017, 10:35 PM
Apr 2017

as much to blame as the law enforcement. They are the ones who called law enforcement to begin with for a problem they created and then subsequently handled horribly. There were over a hundred other passengers they could have and should have gone on to ask, the hell with their stupid fucking "random algorithm" or whatever the fuck voodoo they use to determine which PAYING passengers ALREADY ON BOARD THE PLANE AND SEATED should be fucked over and given their useless worthless bullshit vouchers.

Tanuki

(14,887 posts)
11. Very true. And we must continue to keep this in mind when the
Tue Apr 11, 2017, 09:47 AM
Apr 2017

victim-bashing escalates, as will soon happen. Dr. Dao has some major blemishes in his professional history and the right wingers and authoritarians will try to use this against him and to minimize or excuse what United did to him. It doesn't matter. Nobody should have been treated this way.

hlthe2b

(101,534 posts)
16. WHAT blemishes in his professional history? I didn't read anything of the kind?
Tue Apr 11, 2017, 09:51 AM
Apr 2017

It would not matter to me, regardless, but that is an offensive statement to me that seems to be doing just what you say you want to avoid....

Tanuki

(14,887 posts)
19. I am not trying to offend you or slander Dr. Dao.
Tue Apr 11, 2017, 09:56 AM
Apr 2017
http://www.courier-journal.com/story/news/local/2017/04/11/david-dao-passenger-removed-united-flight-doctor-troubled-past/100318320/

"David Dao, the Elizabethtown doctor who was yanked off an overbooked United Airlines flight Sunday, has had a troubled history in Kentucky.

Dao, who went to medical school in Vietnam in the 1970s before moving to the U.S., was working as a pulmonologist in Elizabethtown when he was arrested in 2003 and eventually convicted of drug-related offenses after an undercover investigation, according to documents filed with the Kentucky Board of Medical Licensure last June. The documents allege that he was involved in fraudulent prescriptions for controlled substances and was sexually involved with a patient who used to work for his practice and assisted police in building a case against him.

Dao was convicted of multiple felony counts of obtaining drugs by fraud or deceit in November 2004 and was placed on five years of supervised probation in January 2005. He surrendered his medical license the next month.
The Kentucky Board of Medical Licensure permitted Dao to resume practicing medicine in 2015 under certain conditions."

------
This is from his local newspaper. As I stated, it does not in any way mitigate what United did to him, but will be used against him in some circles.

hlthe2b

(101,534 posts)
31. I had seen none of this but agree with you that this is immaterial to
Tue Apr 11, 2017, 10:13 AM
Apr 2017

Current incident... thanks for the response

hunter

(38,240 posts)
101. That case might involve some level of racist harassment too.
Tue Apr 11, 2017, 12:08 PM
Apr 2017

If he'd been a white Republican doctor practicing in Kentucky, would he have had been treated the same?

Somehow I doubt it.

Like it or not, law enforcement at all levels in the U.S.A. is not colorblind, from street cops, to medical boards, to the DEA, ICE and the FBI.









athena

(4,187 posts)
118. So what?
Tue Apr 11, 2017, 12:20 PM
Apr 2017

(Not directed at you, BTW.)

This is what the right-wing haters do every single time. Something horrific is done to an individual who belongs to a minority group, and they change the topic by finding some minor infraction the person committed in the past. And everybody goes away thinking that the person deserved what he got.

Life is hard. People get depressed. They get addicted to drugs. They get angry and yell inappropriately. They lie on immigration documents to be able to be near and support their loved ones. We all do our best to make the best of the cards we've been dealt. No one is perfect. If being treated fairly requires perfection, then no one can possibly demand fairness.

This is a sick country, and it will not change until we decide that a lack of empathy for one's fellow beings is despicable and shameful. When someone displays a lack of empathy, put them on the spot and shame them for not being a better human being. We need to get together and stop the slide of this culture toward increasing sociopathy.

Demsrule86

(68,217 posts)
75. Do you work for United? Stop blaming the victim...don't care
Tue Apr 11, 2017, 11:36 AM
Apr 2017

what you or any other person says...this was a disgraceful episode and United should be ashamed.

athena

(4,187 posts)
120. They're not blaming the victim.
Tue Apr 11, 2017, 12:23 PM
Apr 2017

Tanuki has been on the victim's side all along. I think you misread their post.

hlthe2b

(101,534 posts)
14. No. It is important to get out there to fight the attempt to villainize him and destroy his rep
Tue Apr 11, 2017, 09:48 AM
Apr 2017

This is already happening in comment sections, by UA CEO, and unfortunately, a few pro-authoritarian posters here on DU.

Should it matter? NO. But, it does.

 

certainot

(9,090 posts)
30. limbaugh asked why didn't they just offer him a pepsi?
Tue Apr 11, 2017, 10:12 AM
Apr 2017

always putting a friendly face on fascism....

from 600 radio stations near us all

christx30

(6,241 posts)
106. I've seen that Pepsi thing a few times
Tue Apr 11, 2017, 12:12 PM
Apr 2017

from many sources. It's not a fascism thing. It's satire of Pepsi's stupid Jenner commercial with her walking through protesters, and offering a Pepsi to a cop, and suddenly everything's OK.
A post on Reddit was captioned with "I'm never getting a ticket again", and it showed a Pepsi stashed in the door of the car.

 

certainot

(9,090 posts)
160. limbaugh is making fun of the whole thing with a 'political correctness' reference
Tue Apr 11, 2017, 01:56 PM
Apr 2017

while being the biggest PC cop in the country

christx30

(6,241 posts)
171. People I've seen it have been crapping on
Tue Apr 11, 2017, 03:14 PM
Apr 2017

Pepsi's advertising and their trivializing the protest/resistance movements. All problems between police and the communities can be solved with ice cold sugary carbonated water. Duh. Why didn't anyone else think of that? Thank God for Pepsi.

sharedvalues

(6,916 posts)
223. "PC" really means "Prejudice cover-up"
Tue Apr 11, 2017, 10:54 PM
Apr 2017

Anyone who uses the term political c****ness is really saying they are covering up racism and hatred.

PC is GOP code for "it's ok to be racist and hateful".

 

certainot

(9,090 posts)
224. here's one definition
Tue Apr 11, 2017, 11:30 PM
Apr 2017

"Political correctness is a straw man that blowhard reactionaries attack in lieu of reasonable refutations of sensible arguments for progress." Barry Crimmins

itcfish

(1,828 posts)
8. I don't care
Tue Apr 11, 2017, 09:39 AM
Apr 2017

if he is a doctor, a brick layer or a sanitation worker, no human being should be treated in that matter. I still want to know why he was chose over other passengers.

tavernier

(12,299 posts)
10. I read that a random computer pick occurred
Tue Apr 11, 2017, 09:47 AM
Apr 2017

but like you said, what does it matter. I think the luck of draw was perfect in this case because it opened up a real Pandora's box.

Fla Dem

(23,239 posts)
25. Totally agree. Respect for the man and what he's accomplished, but his being a doctor doesn't
Tue Apr 11, 2017, 10:06 AM
Apr 2017

make what they did to him any more horrible. It would have been just as horrible if it had been an unemployed person, a school teacher, a deli worker, a grocery store cashier. Manhandling a innocent human being for no reason is unacceptable whomever it is.

I hope the CEO of United; Oscar Munoz is treated the way he wants his passengers to be treated.

csziggy

(34,115 posts)
12. The claims for the amount of compensation vary from story to story
Tue Apr 11, 2017, 09:47 AM
Apr 2017

The story linked in the OP says:

The CEO described how flight crews had offered up to $1,000 in compensation for anyone willing to catch the next flight before approaching the passenger to 'explain apologetically' that he was being denied boarding.


This article - https://www.theatlantic.com/business/archive/2017/04/united-video-scandal-law/522552/ - says:
After the offer was raised to $800, and nobody was willing to leave the flight (perhaps because it would require missing a full day's work without a compelling excuse), somebody from United announced that a computer would randomly select four people to leave the plane.


Some of the earlier stories (that I cannot now find) said the passengers were offered $400 in vouchers to "volunteer" to leave the flight.

I wonder if the couple who did leave got a lesser compensation than was offered to the more stubborn man who did NOT want to leave?

n2doc

(47,953 posts)
26. Would have been cheaper for them to have offered 2 free first class tickets
Tue Apr 11, 2017, 10:06 AM
Apr 2017

To everyone on the flight. This is going to cost hundreds of millions to repair their image.

csziggy

(34,115 posts)
35. They could have hired a car and driver to drive their crew to Louisville
Tue Apr 11, 2017, 10:17 AM
Apr 2017

If the crew needed rest on the way to their next flight that would have been as good as flying. Since the plane was already boarded and full and no one volunteered to willingly leave - one couple "begrudgingly" got off - it would have been much cheaper to simply have the crew taken by car. The drive time is less than six hours!

Originally I wondered if at least some of the crew members were pilots that needed to get a specified amount of rest before their next flight but at least one article said the personnel were actually maintenance workers who needed to be in Louisville.

 

randome

(34,845 posts)
39. Some DUers in the know say that doesn't work according to FAA regulations.
Tue Apr 11, 2017, 10:21 AM
Apr 2017

If they were pilots, you can't sleep in a car and consider yourself rested enough to fly an airplane. If they were maintenance workers, I would think there was an urgent need to see to planes in Louisville. Delaying that would have created another cascading event with thousands more outraged passengers. I'm assuming.
[hr][font color="blue"][center]"There is a crack in everything. That's how the light gets in."
Leonard Cohen, Anthem (1992)
[/center][/font][hr]

csziggy

(34,115 posts)
42. As I said in my message,that might have been a consideration
Tue Apr 11, 2017, 10:26 AM
Apr 2017

But at least one article specified that they were United maintenance crew, not flight crew.

I understand that pilots are supposed to get a certain number of hours of bed rest between flights. If the United crew members included pilots, that would explain the need to fly them so they would get enough time to sleep before a scheduled flight.

BUT if there were a pilot in the four that were put on the plane why hasn't United made that part of their publicity? They would deflate some of the criticism if they framed it as a safety issue for getting other flights away on time with a rested pilot in the cockpit.

 

randome

(34,845 posts)
45. They could definitely be more forthcoming about the reason this became such a problem.
Tue Apr 11, 2017, 10:38 AM
Apr 2017

[hr][font color="blue"][center]"There is a crack in everything. That's how the light gets in."
Leonard Cohen, Anthem (1992)
[/center][/font][hr]

hlthe2b

(101,534 posts)
43. They could have negotiated with a competitor to fly the crew
Tue Apr 11, 2017, 10:28 AM
Apr 2017

This used to happen frequently years ago when the airlines actually cooperated with each other...

 

randome

(34,845 posts)
46. Maybe they tried. If the entire region was screwed up, maybe there were no alternatives.
Tue Apr 11, 2017, 10:39 AM
Apr 2017

Maybe all the other airline schedules were screwed up, too.

It would help UA if they explained just why the situation developed in the first place.
[hr][font color="blue"][center]"There is a crack in everything. That's how the light gets in."
Leonard Cohen, Anthem (1992)
[/center][/font][hr]

BadgerMom

(2,765 posts)
51. Then hire a private service or join Netjet
Tue Apr 11, 2017, 10:54 AM
Apr 2017

for such exigencies. They were out of Chicago. I wouldn't be shocked if United kept a smaller plane there available for executives. Put the crew on that. Solve the problem SOME other way.

PoiBoy

(1,540 posts)
127. This...
Tue Apr 11, 2017, 12:36 PM
Apr 2017

..a four hour drive would be about a 45 minute flight... NetJets or United corporate jet would have gotten the crew members there in no time and well rested... and it would have been a heck of a lot cheaper that the ultimate cost of the bad PR for United...




Hassin Bin Sober

(26,243 posts)
64. I heard the flight they were repositioning for was next day.
Tue Apr 11, 2017, 11:17 AM
Apr 2017

I don't think traveling to work counts as duty time anyway.

 

randome

(34,845 posts)
92. I hadn't heard that. Definitely no logic to forcing passengers off if that's the case.
Tue Apr 11, 2017, 11:54 AM
Apr 2017

But I'd need to see a reference before I believe it.
[hr][font color="blue"][center]"There is a crack in everything. That's how the light gets in."
Leonard Cohen, Anthem (1992)
[/center][/font][hr]

Alice11111

(5,730 posts)
230. Billions, w the boycott.TheChinese are boycotting too.Today alone was1/2 million just in stock loses
Wed Apr 12, 2017, 02:47 AM
Apr 2017

Well deserved. Let it be a message to the industry! United is the worst, most rude... but they all treat us like shit, unless you are 1st class, wealthy. You can't just pick someone out and screw up their plans and responsibilities because you are too cheap to pay someone money, or something besides worthless scam vouchers, when that person has already paid and relied on the ticket. Fuck the rules. These are adhesion contracts. They know no one reads them because there is really no choice but to take the service anyway. Adhesion contracts can be pierced.

The guy forcing the passenger had on blue jeans. What the hell? Authority? To drag this guy down the aisle, who was obviously scared to death and confused, after they had already busted his head, or caused his head to bleed, is inhumane. There are 100 different things they could have done. His past is irrelevant, and distant, probably questionable anyway, given his background. Minorities don't always get a fair shake by authorities or in the justice system, even worse 13 years ago, or whatever. Nonetheless, his past is irrelevant. The guy on Twitter who said, how could they have done it worse, set him on fire, has a point.

cannabis_flower

(3,762 posts)
61. Without a compelling excuse?
Tue Apr 11, 2017, 11:14 AM
Apr 2017

I would just say I was bumped from my flight, that's not a compelling reason to miss work?

csziggy

(34,115 posts)
168. It depends on the job - for a doctor it could be a major problem
Tue Apr 11, 2017, 03:11 PM
Apr 2017

Some articles today indicate that the doctor who was attacked was an internist - he could have patients waiting for initial diagnoses or for followup checkups or treatment. He could also have a schedule that is tight and re-scheduling could take months and could endanger patients' lives.

I know when my doctor found a heart murmur it was two month before the cardiologist could fit me into his schedule. Even then, he had an emergency the morning of my appointment and arrived an hour and a half late. It's been two weeks since the echocardiogram (which could only be scheduled a month after the doctor's appointment) indicated the need for an MRI and I am still waiting for the call to schedule that.

cannabis_flower

(3,762 posts)
181. I was actually thinking of the others on the plane..
Tue Apr 11, 2017, 04:00 PM
Apr 2017

that could have been bumped. For most jobs it would be a compelling reason.

csziggy

(34,115 posts)
187. Of course we don't know how many passengers were already behind schedule
Tue Apr 11, 2017, 04:29 PM
Apr 2017

Because of delays and flight cancellations caused by weather. Remember, that is part of United's justification for needing to bump paying passengers in order to get a crew in Louisville on such a tight schedule.

That could be why the doctor was in need of getting back that night - maybe he had planned on returning previously and had already been delayed.

DownriverDem

(6,187 posts)
17. Why I don't fly
Tue Apr 11, 2017, 09:52 AM
Apr 2017

I quit flying after 9/11 when we started being treated like criminals. What happened to this doctor was disgusting!

csziggy

(34,115 posts)
40. I quit flying in 1990 when the passengers were treated like cattle
Tue Apr 11, 2017, 10:21 AM
Apr 2017

My husband and I flew to Albuquerque and back for a seminar. Both directions the flights were crammed, overhead luggage bins were full of peanuts - on flights with no food or snacks being served - and the attendants were overworked and rude.

I love flying, but after those flights I just have not wanted to take commercial jets anymore. Since 911 with the increased cramming and the TSA abuses, I doubt I will ever fly again.

Phoenix61

(16,926 posts)
18. UA seems to have some serious problems
Tue Apr 11, 2017, 09:56 AM
Apr 2017

They needed 4 people to leave, after already boarding, because they needed to get 4 of their employees to Louisville ASAP. So there was already a problem before this incident even happened. How did that original problem happen? Seems like they have a lot of things to fix.

 

randome

(34,845 posts)
20. Weather canceled and delayed thousands of flights in the region. It was a scheduling mess.
Tue Apr 11, 2017, 09:58 AM
Apr 2017

[hr][font color="blue"][center]"There is a crack in everything. That's how the light gets in."
Leonard Cohen, Anthem (1992)
[/center][/font][hr]

Phoenix61

(16,926 posts)
23. Thanks, I didn't know that
Tue Apr 11, 2017, 10:03 AM
Apr 2017

They certainly managed to stir up a pretty good sized shit storm that I bet will last longer than that weather did.

dae

(3,396 posts)
21. I appreciate you sharing that information. Morning Joe were on
Tue Apr 11, 2017, 10:00 AM
Apr 2017

United's CEO most of this morning but Scarborough kept repeating they had not "verified" the man was an actual Doctor., like it makes a difference. Doctor or not, no one deserves that type of treatment.
Again thanks for the OP.

NewJeffCT

(56,827 posts)
33. agreed
Tue Apr 11, 2017, 10:14 AM
Apr 2017

It doesn't matter if he was a doctor, dentist, dock worker, the Duke of York, or a laid off dish washer. He got treated like crap.

IronLionZion

(45,163 posts)
29. Immigrants coming here and stealing our doctor jobs
Tue Apr 11, 2017, 10:11 AM
Apr 2017

away from Billy Bob with his GED. Immigrants are causing our doctor shortage the same way they've been stealing coal, oil, and gas jobs.

I'm impressed and will admit that I doubted he was a doctor based on how he was acting. But I was wrong. It sounds like he really was frightened for whatever reason. Trump's America is a scary place for immigrants and minorities in ways that a white American will never understand.

Rural areas in Kentucky have a shortage of doctors of any type, and really desperate for specialists. So he probably did have lots of rural patients depending on him for treatment if there is no one else for hours in any direction. My hometown in PA has 0 doctors who can deliver babies within an hour's drive.

Both of my grandparents came to America as doctors when LBJ reformed immigration to bring non-European immigrant doctors to treat poor white patients in the new Medicare/Medicaid program while many Southern states were still segregated and women were often blocked out from such professions and misogynist idiots would not let their wives book appointments with my grandmother.

Trump has stated the 1965 immigration reform was when America stopped being great.

brush

(53,331 posts)
86. He was most likely tazed, and knocked unconscious. He was out cold when being dragged out with...
Tue Apr 11, 2017, 11:46 AM
Apr 2017

with bloodied face and glassed askew.

Just horrendous treatment. United will lose millions behind this in business and legal costs.

How stupid can you get. Just keep upping the free tickets and cash until someone bites.

Bet they wish they had just done that now. Even five or even ten grand of an offer is just peanuts compared to what this will cost United.

TNLib

(1,819 posts)
34. I hope he sues the pants off of them
Tue Apr 11, 2017, 10:16 AM
Apr 2017

I'm so tired of large corporations treating consumers like garbage. We need better consumer protection laws in this country.

 

SCVDem

(5,103 posts)
44. We're just missing the Jackboots!
Tue Apr 11, 2017, 10:35 AM
Apr 2017

The people with the power and authority treat everyone as if they are healthy 21 year olds.

This Dr could have had a weak heart and died. People get tased and choked to death way to often.

So much for Poppy Bush's kinder and gentler nation.

WTF kind of country have we become?

Lonestarblue

(9,808 posts)
47. United needs employee training!
Tue Apr 11, 2017, 10:40 AM
Apr 2017

I've seen nothing in any news report that the United employees did anything other than offer money. And they didn't offer the maximum they could have ($1350). Several other airlines fly from Chicago to Louisville. Did they try to find seats for the crew that needed to be in Louisville on one of those carriers? Or even one seat for the doctor, who might have been delayed but still able to get home that night. Chicago also has another airport--were later flights available from Wrigley Field? Or did they explore options of flying their crew or the doctor to Cincinnati or Lexington? It's a short drive from either to Louisville. It seems that they did not really explore the options. The message United's actions sends, and even the response of the CEO, is that passengers are just so much baggage and they can treat them however they want! Their employees need better training and respect for the people paying the bills.

rocktivity

(44,546 posts)
79. DING DING DING! Lonestarblue, you're our grand prize winner!
Tue Apr 11, 2017, 11:40 AM
Apr 2017
Several other airlines fly from Chicago to Louisville. Did they try to find seats for the crew that needed to be in Louisville on one of those carriers?

Better yet, why not find the flights for the PASSENGERS they bumped?

Oh, wait -- putting the crew on OTHER flights would have forced United to pay for their tickets, not to mention make them look incompetent because they can't plan that far ahead. Why not always reserve seats for last-minute crew members as a matter of policy? And why overbook in the first place?


rocktivity

athena

(4,187 posts)
146. They are allowed to offer as high an amount as they like.
Tue Apr 11, 2017, 01:22 PM
Apr 2017

The $1350 figure is the maximum you're legally entitled to if you're involuntarily bumped off. Most of those who are involuntarily bumped off don't claim that money, probably because they don't read the fine print on the paperwork they're given, or they simply don't have time to go through the process.

United was free to offer $5,000 in cash. I bet there would have been takers.

elleng

(129,795 posts)
62. Thanks for the lovely picture, OKNancy.
Tue Apr 11, 2017, 11:15 AM
Apr 2017

This will stay with me. The little one resembles my grandaughter.

Heartstrings

(7,349 posts)
68. I will repeat what I said on another thread on the same subject....
Tue Apr 11, 2017, 11:29 AM
Apr 2017

To me the point that is being lost is, this man is a human being...he was brutally forced to vacate a seat that he had bought, paid for, and was occupying...he was 69 years old...he had someplace he needed to be as did everyone else on that plane...if anyone can view that video and side with the airlines on this, you may want to acquire some empathy...although it's pretty apparent that emotion is severely lacking in our country these days...never liked you United, and I'll take a bus before I'll ever fly your "unfriendly" skies again....

 

rdking647

(5,113 posts)
74. heres what i dont understand
Tue Apr 11, 2017, 11:36 AM
Apr 2017

under uniteds contract of carraige they can deny boarding if the plane is overbooked.

1)in this case the guy had already boarded. has a court ruled what constitutes boarding,so if he had already boarded can he sue for being forced off the plane?
2) the contract says it can deny boarding if teh plane is overbooked. The plane wasnt overbooked,united decided that 4 non paying employees were more important. so does the overbookign rules apply???

Im not a lawyer but it seems like the doctor has a good case for a lawsuit.


athena

(4,187 posts)
107. I hope all those DUers who accused him of lying about being a doctor apologize publicly.
Tue Apr 11, 2017, 12:12 PM
Apr 2017

The fact that they accused this guy, whom they've never met, of lying about his profession says more about them than it does about him.

niyad

(112,064 posts)
144. I suggest that you not hold your breath waiting for that apology. there is a certain mindset
Tue Apr 11, 2017, 01:21 PM
Apr 2017

that refuses to acknowledge wrong.

athena

(4,187 posts)
149. I can't even imagine
Tue Apr 11, 2017, 01:25 PM
Apr 2017

how a person who publicly stated that they thought the guy was lying about being a doctor could live with themselves without taking back that unfair and uncalled-for smear. I can't fathom the level of rationalization that must go on in such a brain.

NoMoreRepugs

(9,216 posts)
115. NY Daily News writing about his previous run ins with the law... I'm
Tue Apr 11, 2017, 12:18 PM
Apr 2017

no lawyer but what the F&^% difference does that make to this situation other than besmirch the dr and lend credence to the actions taken by UAL??

steve2470

(37,455 posts)
130. totally agree
Tue Apr 11, 2017, 12:41 PM
Apr 2017

I don't care if the guy was a convicted armed robber out of prison for one day. You do NOT deserve to be treated the way that man was treated. Period.

 

OldRedneck

(1,397 posts)
117. My daughter may contact him . . .
Tue Apr 11, 2017, 12:20 PM
Apr 2017

. . . she is a cross between a pit bull and a great white shark and also is a trial lawyer . . . BIG settlement and BIG fee!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

LAS14

(13,741 posts)
119. Let's ignore, for the moment, the wisdom....
Tue Apr 11, 2017, 12:21 PM
Apr 2017

... of United's policy of removing people from their seats if they are refusing to leave after a legal (remember.... ignore this part) order to do so.

A lot of the furor seems to be about the physicality of the process. So my question to those folks is, What is a policeman supposed to do when asked to remove a person from a place where they don't belong? (Reminder - we're ignoring the righteousness of United's policies for the purposes of this question.) Just pretend that it was a legal order to leave the plane.

d_r

(6,907 posts)
128. here's the thing to me.
Tue Apr 11, 2017, 12:36 PM
Apr 2017

His reaction was inappropriate. It really was. But to me that means instead of acting like a jack booted thug and dragging him out that professional people should have treated him with dignity. He is an older gentleman. I know nothing about him. Do I know if he has dementia? Do I know if he has diabetes and has been traveling and his blood sugar is out of whack? I know that he is panicking. Is the appropriate thing for to grab him and force him to the ground and drag him? Or is it to assess the situation and respond in an appropriate way?

Now we know that he came to the US from Vietnam in the 1970s. We know he has had legal problems before. I do not know how these factors impacted his behavior, but it wouldn't surprise me if they did. No one would have known these things in that situation, but instead of trying to find out what the mental state of the man was and deal with that in a kind, respectful way they choose to physically drag him off the plan with no concern for his well being.

There was a post a few months ago about how we need to remember our humanity as so many elements of our society seem to shift towards authoritarianism. How when the culture around us changes we forget and adapt to the new reality. To remember to question things that have come to seem acceptable that previously would not have. To notice when our perceptions have changed. So let me ask, do you not think that there were other ways that the situation could have been handled? Are we at the point when physically dragging some one is considered just a necessary reaction by LEO?

haele

(12,566 posts)
154. Please stop it with the "inappropriate reaction". The man was a 69 year old Vietnamese immigrant.
Tue Apr 11, 2017, 01:32 PM
Apr 2017

Not a coddled 45 year old American who grew up watching "Growing Pains", "Different Strokes", and "T.J. Hooker", who was taught that Officer McFriendly had your best interest at heart, and to be a Grown Up is to just listen to what you were told by those above you and follow orders from someone in Uniform.

There are certain expectations of respect Dr. Dao has due to his age, and the fact that he purchased a ticket and had already been seated. My own 75+ year old mother would refuse to leave in similar circumstances, it's hard enough for her to manage her baggage and negotiate the airport; and the vouchers they were offering would not make up the difference in money, time, and physical effort she would have to pay for being bumped. Plus, if she was travelling with checked luggage, she wouldn't want to be separated from the medication and other items she would have had to have packed for the trip, similar to most 70+ people.

Vouchers are bullshit and useless. I wouldn't give up my legitimately purchased seat for a voucher that I probably couldn't ever find a use for and a "promise" that maybe there would be a seat for me on some flight over the next couple days that I wouldn't be bumped from; it would have to be an actual ticket, a rental car, or cash money.

There was absolutely no reason for him to give up his seat once he had been boarded; he wasn't being combative, he wasn't drunk and raising one's voice to be heard and get attention when someone puts their hands on one is not an unexpected response. And I've read several comments purportedly from other passengers that when he was yanked from his seat, he and his wife were in the process of trying to get United to pay for a f'ing rental car so they could just drive the 4 hours back home instead of having to put up with the B.S. the airline was trying to pull on them.

So yes, I would yell if someone grabbed me to pull me out of my seat. I would be selfish if I thought a company was randomly cheating me - especially if I were a minority who knew I looked like easy prey to an authoritarian.

He wasn't acting inappropriately before they grabbed him. He was just standing up for his rights as a paying customer that was already in the process of receipt of the service, as well as someone who was in a reasonably protected legal status - the burden it would be on an elderly or disabled person to be deplaned after they had already been seated is significant, which is why there's special seating for them.

Being a doctor, or having a checkered past, has nothing to do with it.

Haele

Lifelong Protester

(8,421 posts)
158. I'm with you.
Tue Apr 11, 2017, 01:51 PM
Apr 2017

His "fuss" would look like nothing much if I were the one yanked from my seat.

He was boarded, so did United try to take care of this predicatment before everyone was boarded??

d_r

(6,907 posts)
166. Well thats fine
Tue Apr 11, 2017, 02:42 PM
Apr 2017

I thought he was acting odd, you didn't, but my point would be the same, any decent person would have looked at him and handled it without dragging him out.

Zambero

(8,953 posts)
131. To begin with...
Tue Apr 11, 2017, 12:42 PM
Apr 2017

United or any other airline should never under any circumstances be sending in the cops to forcibly remove a paying customer causing no problem who was selected "at random" because of the airline's own screw-up. That airline should have a back-up policy in place for alternative transportation, such as a small private plane, if getting select crew members to their destination is all that important, if and when someone in the organization screws up. Law enforcement and law-abiding customers should be completely out of the picture.

athena

(4,187 posts)
137. It's an abuse of the system.
Tue Apr 11, 2017, 12:58 PM
Apr 2017

The cops are supposed to be there to solve real problems, not protect large corporations from the quirks of individual citizens.

I recently got kicked out of a mall because I was painting there. (I'm an artist.) It was a tiny painting; I was occupying almost no space, making no mess, and causing no disturbance. But security forced me to leave because apparently the stores are very "sensitive" about their image being captured. In other words, security was more concerned about protecting the profits of the big-name stores than in ensuring the safety of the people in the mall. When you see a security guard at any private establishment, don't be lulled into a false sense of security: they're not there to protect you; they're there to protect the establishment from you.

anneboleyn

(5,611 posts)
162. Exactly.I am so fucking sick of the corporate shills -- United has also killed a bunch of pets
Tue Apr 11, 2017, 01:58 PM
Apr 2017

pets too, despite promising the people who paid extra for special care (some paid in the thousands) that their pet would receive personal attention including water, vet attention if needed, and release from its cage for a bit of exercise with a private handler. Yep, it didn't happen, and one woman recorded her dog being left outside for hours (as the plane sat for something like six hours waiting for several "mechanical" checks) in his plastic carrier in 90 plus degree heat with NO WATER and no release. Periodically a baggage guy kicked the dog's carrier. The dog very nearly died and needed emergency vet care (which the owner paid for not United). United offered her some vouchers. Other animals have died, and people have been blatantly lied to about what happened to their animals. United sucks.

United sucks. People smearing the doctor and excusing this monstrous behavior imho don't belong on DU. I find it extremely weird that they want to post to a site like DU in the first place.

Zambero

(8,953 posts)
245. An excellent solution
Wed Apr 12, 2017, 02:20 PM
Apr 2017

Could even live stream the proceedings with a celebrity host as a daytime game show, a-la "Deal Or No Deal".

"Fly Or No Fly" ???



But all aside, that might be the best solution.

niyad

(112,064 posts)
148. WHAT LEGAL order??? why were the police even there in the first place? WHAT LeGAL ORDER
Tue Apr 11, 2017, 01:24 PM
Apr 2017

removes a paying passenger who has already boarded from a seat he is LEGALLY occupying, all for the purpose of seating non-paying people?

United screwed up big time, and all the justifications in the world are not going to overcome their poor decision making, nor is their defense by the authoritarian-minded.

tikka

(756 posts)
126. The one thing overlooked about this
Tue Apr 11, 2017, 12:34 PM
Apr 2017

is that if you talk to anyone that works for an airline, they will tell you all airlines routinely overbook to cover no-shows

onetexan

(12,971 posts)
136. STOP THE STEREOTYPING
Tue Apr 11, 2017, 12:52 PM
Apr 2017

His ethnicity had nothing to do with it. The story is about a corporation treating its customers badly...period, end of story. Don't make it what it's not.

niyad

(112,064 posts)
247. did they DEMAND that a non-minority give up a legally purchased and occupied seat?
Thu Apr 13, 2017, 12:57 PM
Apr 2017

the defense of the indefensible on this board is nauseating.

tarheelsunc

(2,117 posts)
261. I am not defending ANYTHING.
Thu Apr 13, 2017, 03:13 PM
Apr 2017

I'm simply saying this was ABSOLUTELY NOT a racial incident. The doctor is not the only person who was selected to give up a seat. He's the only person who refused. If a white person had refused, they would have received the same treatment.

Crying racism when racism isn't there 1) distracts from the actual issues surrounding this situation, and 2) diminishes the effects of pointing out actual racism.

 

HoneyBadger

(2,297 posts)
231. The doc said that it was because he was a Chinese man
Wed Apr 12, 2017, 03:00 AM
Apr 2017

That is racism and misandry.

The global community is also attributing the incident to racism.

Those people have suffered so much at the hands of America.

anneboleyn

(5,611 posts)
156. Thanks for this post! I have blocked three posters now who have been posting unbelievable, hostile
Tue Apr 11, 2017, 01:40 PM
Apr 2017

garbage that doesn't belong on DU b/c of this story. The OP's story gives us some great photos and backstory. Then the posts started. It has been really depressing, and it happened again in this thread. I come to DU to escape the Trump "guilty before innocent" judgments and the childlike belief that corporations are always right and always work within appropriate limits. This story is appalling.

United has zero excuse for what they did, and I refuse to read any other DU posts that are either being posted by trolls for the lolz or posted by people who seriously believe that dragging the man off the plane (while the other passengers were screaming at the law "enforcement" types btw for hurting the guy) was perfectly okay because he "asked for it" somehow. This is just not something I'm going to tolerate anymore.

athena

(4,187 posts)
159. I must have put at least twenty people on ignore since yesterday.
Tue Apr 11, 2017, 01:52 PM
Apr 2017

Many of them are low-count posters. I think DU is being inundated by trolls who are bothered that this is such a good place for liberals to discuss politics and current events.

duncang

(1,907 posts)
199. I wondered my self about that
Tue Apr 11, 2017, 07:16 PM
Apr 2017

That would definitely explain his "screeching" as described by some. Hopefully we will get more info on the lead up to the video soon. With the statement from a fellow passenger that he was polite but agitated prior to the video could point to a hand held tazer being used at that time.

onetexan

(12,971 posts)
233. yes they did
Wed Apr 12, 2017, 04:30 AM
Apr 2017

& I hope he will she their pants off & win bigly to send a clear message to airlines not to trod on their customers & great them like dirt. Passengers have rights. The airlines have no problem taking our money & nickel & diming travelers for every little thing - things that once upon a time were part of your paid airfare.

Fantastic Anarchist

(7,309 posts)
200. This is a microcosm of how "free enterprise" ...
Tue Apr 11, 2017, 07:19 PM
Apr 2017

... uses the government when it's beneficial to the enterprise. The "invisible hand" beat this poor guy up using the government as the baton.

 

HoneyBadger

(2,297 posts)
229. I think the fact that he is from Vietnam may have something to do with the obvious fear
Wed Apr 12, 2017, 02:34 AM
Apr 2017

Nailed it........


Survives another round of American racism. Must be Saturday. Those poor people have suffered enough. If only there was a way of compensating them.

BlueMTexpat

(15,344 posts)
235. Certainly they could have found at least
Wed Apr 12, 2017, 05:59 AM
Apr 2017

one white male who could have been selected for removal. I am sure that such tactics would never have been used on a white male.

IMO, the airline is wholly at fault: a) for literally holding all passengers captive AFTER boarding and b) for displacing ANY paying passenger simply for its own ends or convenience. The fact that the airline enforced its action in such a brutal way is totally unacceptable. The fact that it tried to justify its actions by blaming the victim is reprehensible.

Also, IMO, the practice of overbooking needs review. I understand that it is a common practice and I understand the economic considerations involved. But ONCE passengers have ALREADY boarded the plane, UNLESS there is an emergency that can be categorized as force majeure, NO paying passenger should ever have to relinquish his/her seat. Period.

Here is one article that is quite informative: https://www.ft.com/content/e4cb5744-1e9d-11e7-a454-ab04428977f9

Did United handle its overbooking situation badly?

Yes. Aviation experts point to the fact that when overbooking occurs it usually happens before the plane is boarded, in contrast to the United case. In addition, United still had the option to raise its compensation offer to $1,350 — which could have resulted in some other volunteers — before removing the passenger against his will.

Airlines have no set rules about which passengers they will order off a flight first if there are not enough volunteers, but high-paying business class travellers or passengers travelling with children or the disabled are unlikely to be the first choice. Some airlines base it on order of check-in.

“It’s not 100 per cent foolproof but when situations are anticipated that there are too many customers for a given flight then this should be addressed proactively in advance ahead of departure by making new arrangements and seeking volunteers to stand down,” says Mr Strickland. “Even when passengers are forcibly denied boarding the idea is to handle this as tactfully and sensitively as possible.”



BlueMTexpat

(15,344 posts)
240. While there is no confusion about Dr. Dao's being a doctor,
Wed Apr 12, 2017, 06:46 AM
Apr 2017

there does seem to be confusion about WHICH Dr. Dao is the victim of UA brutality.

The confusion is true even though Dr. Dao's past should NOT matter at all, no matter which one he is. He was a VICTIM here and his past had absolutely zilch to do with that. Period.

Please see upthread where one post mentions the confusion as discovered in tweets. Please also see this, even though I cannot totally guarantee the source. http://www.tigerdroppings.com/rant/politics/fake-info-from-united-airlines/69603365/

Here is some information about Dr. David Anh Duy Dao, the physician from Kentucky, who is Vietnamese American, and who studied medicine at Saigon University: https://www.everipedia.com/david-thanh-duc-dao-md/

Here is information about Dr. David Thanh Duc Dao, the physician from Louisiana, who studied medicine at Tulane University: https://www.doximity.com/pub/david-dao-md/1

The flight in question was headed for Louisville, KY, according to the report about Dr. David Anh Duy Dao, which gives credence to his being the correct doctor, i.e., the one from Elizabethtown, KY. The UA victim stated that he was Chinese rather than Vietnamese. ????? I know that there are many Vietnamese of Chinese origin. But still.

IMO, racism played a factor, not only in his selection and treatment, but also in the subsequent media coverage - no matter which Dr. Dao he is. I hope that we ultimately learn the truth. But that should have no influence on how we view this appalling incident.

HopeAgain

(4,407 posts)
243. Wow people get angry because facts are reported
Wed Apr 12, 2017, 09:12 AM
Apr 2017

Did this doctor do anything to deserve this brutality? Does it matter, in assessing what happened here, if he has a history of being a a selfless family man and caring doctor or a pill-mill pervert doctor?

Those are the questions that I think are easily answered no and no.

But once a story is reported, the press is trained to dig deeper. Sometimes they come up with relevant things, sometimes not so much. It does possibly help explain the man's bizarre behavior in rushing back on the plane after the incident. Who's to say what is "news" though?

What is so stark to me is the anger with which people react when facts come out that they are afraid might negatively influence the way that people see the narrative. As if they are protecting their outrage by not permitting anything to be reported that might tarnish the meme they have cultivated. See, sometimes I think a fair criticism of liberals is that we are all over the truth when it fits our narrative, but angered and wanting to suppress things that don't fit that perfect narrative. I have yet to see one person who has "blamed the victim" in this instance, they have just discussed facts that are coming out. Should we suppress facts (in this case public records) because we are afraid it will confuse people? Isn't that anti-First Amendment paternalism?

I can only control how I think, and I think this doctor's history is totally irrelevant in explaining the over-reaction and violence of the officer and the outrageous policies and procedures utilized by United in bumping paid customers. But if I try to control how others think about it? Tell people they are wrong to even discuss things that are facts? I'm just going to experience backlash.

JonLP24

(29,322 posts)
248. They probably thought he was Chinese
Thu Apr 13, 2017, 01:01 PM
Apr 2017

A reporter at this mornings press conference was asking questions about China til his daughter said, "my family immigrated from Vietna!m."

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