Have You Seen this (Foodstamps and Animals)

[Nictuku]

I have seen this posted by a friend and another by a family member on Facebook. I have to use extreme caution and steer clear of politics on Facebook (having to do with my employment), but this one got me so steamed I had to respond to both.

Here is the graphic I have an issue with



Here is my response to my Libertarian (and non-religious friend):

... Because we all equate feeding animals with feeding human children?

Under the Welfare Reform Act (1996 – Clinton) , the following rules apply:

• Most recipients are required to find jobs within two years of first receiving welfare payments.

• Most recipients are allowed to receive welfare payments for a total of no more than five years.

• The states are allowed to establish "family caps" that prevent mothers of babies born while the mother is already on welfare from receiving additional benefits.

Welfare and Foodstamps are different programs, and the 5 year limitation does not apply. However, I’d like to ask you to think a little about these facts: People who are hungry do bad things. Think about if your children were hungry, to what ends would you go to feed them? Think of the crime rate if you have no mercy in your heart for hungry children, disabled, or elderly. Foodstamps household recipients include households with children, or elderly, or disabled, or the working poor. I’d also like to ask: What kind of civilization would let the elderly, disabled, or children starve?
Additionally, you have to be very poor to qualify for the Foodstamp program. For instance, a family of 3 can not have more that $2,008.00 /month in income. If you consider today’s cost for rent, insurance, and transportation costs (the bare necessities in our society) , $2008.00 doesn’t go very far. Under the foodstamps program, the maximum amount a family of 3 can get is $526 a month, after jumping through many hoops to receive it.

And then here is my response to my (extremely) religious family member:

... because we all equate feeding animals to feeding human children?

People can only be on welfare for 5 years of their entire life.

People do bad things when they are hungry.

Civilized societies do not let their children starve.

And then there is what Jesus would do:

"Blessed are the poor in spirit,
for theirs is the kingdom of heaven.

Blessed are they who mourn,
for they shall be comforted.

Blessed are the meek,
for they shall inherit the earth.

Blessed are they who hunger and thirst for righteousness,
for they shall be satisfied.

Blessed are the merciful,
for they shall obtain mercy.

Blessed are the pure of heart,
for they shall see God.

Blessed are the peacemakers,
for they shall be called children of God.

Blessed are they who are persecuted for the sake of righteousness,
for theirs is the kingdom of heaven."

I feel better for having responded, where I usually have to put ignore blinders on when family or friends post partisan/political issues. This is not exactly partisan... or shouldn't be. But it is, isn't it? I just couldn't sit still and not say anything. I do not consider myself a Christian, but I respect everyones right to believe what they will. But it really really gets me when family members, who are devoted Christians post this kind of crap. So for me to quote Matthew back at them is rather interesting, to say the least.

[russspeakeasy]

1. Thanks for the interesting post.

[Nictuku]

3. Thank you.

Interestingly enough, there were no rebuttals in either of my 2 posts.

[bluerum]

2. Not partisan. Humane and ethical.

The publication that originally printed that nonsense is devoid of any journalistic integrity.

[Nictuku]

4. I would have to agree

[Tsiyu]

5. Good for you

1) Bears have access to free berries and bugs. The 1% have access to congressmen and regulators, to tax subsidies and bailouts. To what does American labor have free access?


2) Funny, a hundred and fifty years ago, the same sorts as Billy Fleming would have taken the Indian's guns and hunting land and game away. And stole provisions sent to feed the Indian, leaving the Indian families rancid meat and vegetables.

And then Billy Fleming would have called the Indian shiftless because he couldn't maintain his way of life, of providing for his family.

People like Billy have spent their lives sucking up everything the worker produces, so that now labor cannot sustain the American family.

Then Billy has the gall to blame the worker, the poor, the children, because they want to eat. Calls them, in essence, animals.

I submit that men like Billy Fleming are the true "beasts" among us.

[Nictuku]

6. Very well put Tsiyu :)

[Mnemosyne]

7. 1 John 4:20

1 John 4:20
New American Standard Bible (NASB)
20  If someone says, “I love God,” and hates his brother, he is a liar; for the one who does not love his brother whom he has seen, cannot love God whom he has not seen.

[Riley18]

8. Good reply to that horrible article. It made

me wonder why parents do not get extra money in the summer months. Their kids are not in school so they don't get breakfast and lunch. There should be an increase in food stamp money for two reasons - increased costs and summer means more meals at home.

[progressoid]

9. Typical

They think the poor in America are nothing more than animals

[PatSeg]

10. Yep, I saw that at Facebook as well

The relative who posted it has been on food stamps and knows that I had been on food stamps as well. Though it was years ago, food stamps helped to feed our young children during hard times. I can't imagine what on earth she was thinking.

Somehow it is always different when its someone else.

[Duer 157099]

11. And what about animals in zoos?

Perhaps they should not be fed either? Because that is a much more apt comparison.

Assholes.

[Spitfire of ATJ]

12. Then again, we could always go the other way

Fight the bears for the fish.

[mnhtnbb]

13. Saw it on my news feed, too. Posted this article in response

http://www.rollingstone.com/culture/news/the-sharp-sudden-decline-of-americas-middle-class-20120622

[Nictuku]

15. Good article!

[Nictuku]

14. Uugh... the religious relative responded

.... in a private message. I was hoping it would just be left alone.

Here is the response:

<My Name redacted>, I don’t understand your comment about “because we all equate feeding animals to feeding human children.” The article did not mention “feeding human children” at all. It did, in my opinion, equate giving free food to people, to giving free food to park animals. The government doesn’t want the animals to become dependent on free handouts because they know they will stop foraging on their own. Yet they are not concerned at all about people becoming dependent on free handouts, which is a very real problem. I suspect that the people having voting abilities have something to do with this. About your comment on the beatitudes, I like, but the bible has plenty to say about those who don’t want to work, so I think you missed the point again. You don’t really think it’s OK for people not to work who can, do you? Very few are against giving to those who are truly in need. This past Saturday my church participated in the “Convoy of Hope”. Much food, clothing and other things were given out to thousands. We also have a free dental clinic that was there. There is quite a bit of giving by many churches but it never seems to get much media attention. The media seem only to be interested in all the negative stuff. Waiting on your comments.
Ephesians 4:28
28 Let the thief no longer steal, but rather let him labor, doing honest work with his own hands, so that he may have something to share with anyone in need.

And of course I had to respond back, but I think this will be my last:

It is a terrible comparison.

My impression is that you are assuming that everyone on foodstamps is lazy and doesn't want to work. How do you come to that conclusion?

The truth is that most households on foodstamps are the working poor.

70% are single mothers with children. And then many have elderly their households that they care for, all on one income. Before the destruction of unions, a family could be cared for on one income, but those days are long gone.

I think your assumption that most people on foodstamps are just lazy and like it that way is uninformed. Most familys that I have known that had to resort to foodstamps were embarrassed by it, but it was the only means they had to feed their family. As soon as they were able, they stopped collecting them. But without it, malnutrition would have picked them off, rather than helping them get through a rough time.

Consider this: given that so many decent paying jobs have now gone overseas, supporting a family on minimum wage is next to impossible. ($10/per hour=$1600/month, minus payroll taxes - Daycare costs more than that!)

But minimum wage jobs is about all that is out there any more.

I know dozens of highly trained Information Technology experts that are now unemployed (and have been for over 4 years, uness they took a job flipping burgers to get any kind of paycheck.)

Given the current economic circumstances, I expect the crime rate to rise as more and more people go hungry. Maybe that will effect you to a point where you might see the logic in feeding the hungry.

Elderly who live on fixed incomes with rising energy costs will be cold in the winter and hot in the summer, and worse, eating food not fit for humans.

I don't know about you, but I consider a society who allows that to be uncivilized.

Facts: A family of 3 can not earn more than $2008/month and qualify for foodstamps. Rent, utilities, transportation .... all added up leaves no money for food.

A family of 3 who qualifies can get a maximum of $528 per month, after jumping through many hoops just to qualify for it.

I am assuming that you can't possibly think that all you need in modern day society is food (i.e. foodstamps). And if you think that they just get welfare and foodstamps and never even try to get work, I think you are uninformed, and here is why:

People can not get welfare for more than 5 years in their *entire lifetime*. After 2 years it runs out. So welfare *and* foodstamps is a stop-gap government assistance program. It is not long term.

Therefore, the foodstamps program is not the 'way of life' you seem to think it is. Like I said, you can not get by in today's society with zero money and only food -- Unless you were living like a hobo in a tent city, without any humane comforts (like a roof over your head, a way to bathe, etc.))

I object that my taxes go to pay for wars and secret military schools to train foreigners to overthrow their democratically elected leaders. I object to a lot of things that taxes are used for, but never would I object to feeding the poor and the needy. I actually consider that one of the few good purposes our taxes go to (along with education, transportation, and to a degree, defense)

And I would never accuse the hungry children or hungry elderly of 'stealing' because our civilization has mercy for them foodstamps to buy food with.

Does your church do background checks on those who come to get the food and clothing that is given to them?

Do you assume that they are not lazy because they come to your church program?

Why do you assume that recipients of foodstamps are lazy or criminals stealing from everyone?

If they don't get food, they very well may become criminals.

Hungry people do bad things in order to feed their children.

We must avoid this.

[Semtex]

16. I fully agree!

[Ken Burch]

17. Eloquent response.

If you'd been short of time that day, you COULD have just written

"John 11:35"

BTW, that person is NOT "extremely religious"...she's just extremely self-righteous and swollen with "piety&quot and when I mean "swollen", I mean "abscessed&quot .

[coalition_unwilling]

34. She's a fucking Pharisee (and probably a Philistine to boot :) - n/t

[Akoto]

19. I'm curious about what your relative suggests for me ...

I am 27 and physically disabled for life, barring a miracle breakthrough in medicine. Food stamps were a part of going on SSI, and they are an immense help. I am able to get groceries without feeling like a burden to my parents, who I have to live with.

As I stood before the administrative law judge while attempting to win my SSI case, her assistant (who assesses people to determine whether they can work in any way) said there were no jobs in this economy for someone of my health. There are many other people like me. Are we to starve?

[mysuzuki2]

22. Of course you should not starve!

For my part I do not begrudge you your SSI or foodstamps one little bit.I think you can judge a society by how well it takes care of those in need. You know, it's funny, I've talked to many people who resented paying for welfare and disability payments for others. But when they actually know a person who has hit upon hard times or is disabled they feel that that person deserves all they are given. Maybe we just can't manage to care for people in the abstract, only people whom we actually are acquainted with. I 'm glad that some of my taxes go for these programs. That money is well spent.

[coalition_unwilling]

35. As far as Republicans and Nazis are concerned, yes. The rest of us

human beings, of course not.

[DeSwiss]

26. In my experience, people who hold views.....

...such as those described above, don't actually know any poor people. And if they do know one or two then they've extrapolated all the bad traits from them in order to stereotype them so that they can more easily fit into their pre-established and prejudiced opinions.

Being a PK, I can't help but know the Bible backwards and forwards, even though I ain't what you'd call ''religious.'' But you should tell your relative that with the reference to the verse in Ephesians, they are saying in-effect that Paul's words trumps Jesus'.

And more to the point, just where the heck are all these living wage jobs that these ''thieves'' they refer to, to be obtained? Can they give anyone a referral?

- Here are a few more biblical verses for you to introduce them to Jesus' words in support of feeding and helping the poor and loving everyone else.....

Matthew 22:36-40 (NIV)

36 “Teacher, which is the greatest commandment in the Law?”

37 Jesus replied: “‘Love the Lord your God with all your heart and with all your soul and with all your mind.’[a]

38 This is the first and greatest commandment.

39 And the second is like it: ‘Love your neighbor as yourself.’

40 All the Law and the Prophets hang on these two commandments.”

Matthew 25:31-40 (KJV)

31 When the Son of man shall come in his glory, and all the holy angels with him, then shall he sit upon the throne of his glory:

32 And before him shall be gathered all nations: and he shall separate them one from another, as a shepherd divideth his sheep from the goats:

33 And he shall set the sheep on his right hand, but the goats on the left.

34 Then shall the King say unto them on his right hand, Come, ye blessed of my Father, inherit the kingdom prepared for you from the foundation of the world:

35 For I was an hungered, and ye gave me meat: I was thirsty, and ye gave me drink: I was a stranger, and ye took me in:

36 Naked, and ye clothed me: I was sick, and ye visited me: I was in prison, and ye came unto me.

37 Then shall the righteous answer him, saying, Lord, when saw we thee an hungered, and fed thee? or thirsty, and gave thee drink?

38 When saw we thee a stranger, and took thee in? or naked, and clothed thee?

39 Or when saw we thee sick, or in prison, and came unto thee?

40 And the King shall answer and say unto them, Verily I say unto you, Inasmuch as ye have done it unto one of the least of these my brethren, ye have done it unto me.

K&R

[Nictuku]

27. Bookmarked!!

[coalition_unwilling]

33. I guess I understand that blood is thicker than water, but really, why

maintain any contact with this relative(s) at all? I mean, sometimes the costs just so far exceed the benefits that it's best to cut your losses.

[mnhtnbb]

39. Wow, that PM fits right in with the self-righteous nature of the original post. "My church"

"churches never get much media attention"

Oh, aren't I and my fellow churchgoers SO wonderful is the attitude. Give yourself a pat on the back!


Good luck!

[October]

41. Excellent, excellent!

This post deserves its own thread.

Bravo!

You are not alone in fighting this nonsense -- and you have given me (and many others, I'm sure) some excellent retorts.

Thank you for sharing! I am sorry you have to deal with this on a personal level.

[yardwork]

43. I detect quite a bit of racism underlying your religious relative's PM.

Yet they are not concerned at all about people becoming dependent on free handouts, which is a very real problem. I suspect that the people having voting abilities have something to do with this.

This is a dog whistle reference to the Voting Rights Act.

[RedStateLiberal]

18. Yep, one of my right-wing relatives posted that crap

It got me pretty upset and disappointed to see someone compare food stamp recipients to animals especially since this same relative had, less than two hours earlier, posted a graphic against being judgmental and bullying with her status as: "You never know what someone else is going through in their life." What a hypocrite! It's as if they just don't bother to think.

[redwitch]

21. The hypocrisy is staggering.

And very frustrating.

[RKP5637]

42. That, is the fundamental problem across all of their nonsense, "they just don't

bother to think." I have some friends that are OK people except for their RW nonsense, and it's the same, "they just don't bother to think."

[redwitch]

20. Why yes I have.

Grrrr.

This was my response:

The reason they are distributing more than ever? People are unemployed and underemployed. Lots of them are children or the elderly. Some of them are veterans. I don't begrudge my tax dollars going to feed hungry people. I do begrudge them going to endless wars. Hey, you win some, you lose some.

[SCantiGOP]

23. their reasoning:

If you give a billionaire money, he will be encouraged to create jobs. If you give a poor person money, they will be discouraged from working.

[Nictuku]

25. I have to remember that one... so true!

[yardwork]

44. Except that neither of those are true.

We bailed out Wall Street and corporations continue to outsource jobs to other parts of the world, laying off U.S. employees. If we let poor people starve they won't be able to work.

[bayareaboy]

24. Years ago, when I was young and stupid, and hung out with other ...

Young and stupid people. Some one put a bunch of food near camp on a rock and we had a mama bear and her two offspring scrounging around in a flat second. That was fine until one guy got between mama and her baby. she pushed him over and smacked him a couple of times. Things like that happen often in National Parks. My friend at the time has a nice scar on his arm.

That is why all the signs that say "Do Not Feed The Animals"

I have never heard of even Ronny's Cadillac Welfare Queen attaching a clerk in a food stamp office, Have you ?

[cynatnite]

28. Good response. n/t

[aquart]

29. Bull cookies. All it meant was that after five years the states picked up the tab.

Which means the fed had to feed it to them under a different label.

The poor don't go away because some overprivileged windbag tells them to.

[Proles]

30. I think you responded to both of them well, calling them out on their hypocricy.

People like these need to be called out on there BS. I'm sure lots of people read that crap, think its nonsense, but choose to ignore it. But that gets perceived as "agreement" on their part.

The more people that make the facts clear, the better. Right wingers shouldn't be the only ones with loud mouths.

[LeftishBrit]

31. Good responses

Doesn't the vile comment originate with a speech by a South Carolina Republican politician called Bauer? I remember reading about it on DU, and being horrified!

[diane in sf]

32. This one showed up in my FB feed too. I was totally offended, but reposted and rebutted it in a

restrained way:

This is some right wing screed going around. Here is my response:

I hope none of you ever find yourself in a desperate enough financial position to need food stamps. Someone in a city working 2-3 low wage jobs, not making enough to afford food, rent and utilities, without room or time to garden, really needs those food stamps. I know people in their 50s who have been laid off and haven't been able to find permanent employment for over 5 years no matter how long and hard they've searched. If it weren't for food stamps they would have trouble eating and staying housed. There are huge numbers of people in the US that are hungry and malnourished. Would you let children be permanently damaged by going without adequate food? Do you take farm subsidies? Will you forego SSI and Medicare so you don't become dependent on government handouts in your old age? Just asking...

[HiPointDem]

36. I'd ask the person what he expects people to do when there are 4 people unemployed for every

one job opening.

I'm not sure how he expects people to be self-reliant under those circumstances -- maybe they could rob banks.

I'm all for self-reliance, but I'm not sure there are that many options in a modern capitalist economy when jobs are scarce. Maybe they could camp out in the writers yard and raid his trash.

[girl gone mad]

37. Sounds as if he wants to drop them into wildlife preserves..

and let them all hunt and forage for food.

[Zalatix]

38. He wants them to go eff off and die.

[Norrin Radd]

40. kr

[treestar]

45. Humans could gather berries and hunt

But others humans have sort of taken up the space and organized things so that is no longer really an option for most people. And that's the only way there's a parallel.

Morons. And they are only saying they are afraid they'll be "dependent." They are the ones that need threat of starvation in order to keep them going to work every day.

[Bluerthanblue]

48. not only that but humans who have children

and who cannot provide what today's society deems as appropriate shelter and food for them often live in fear of their children being removed from them-

I worked with a refugee family from Africa, who told me that in some ways it was easier to be poor and remain a family in their homeland than in America. They were threatened by violence and oppression, but they weren't threatened by the state with removal of their children- because of their inability to cloth, feed and house them to American standards. And because of the private ownership of almost all land in this country. Being homeless in America is a crime in many localities.

The whole issue is a farce anyway. The problem with feeding wild animals isn't really that they become dependent on humans- They can live without us- probably better without us. The problem with feeding wild animals is that they lose their fear of us. And that puts us in danger. We kill and eat wild animals, does the person who made the initial comparison of food-stamps feeding wild animals mean to say that we can kill those who are poor and eat them???? Absurd. The whole argument.

[4th law of robotics]

46. Meh, in a country with as much food as we have

I can't see getting too outraged over feeding the poor.

I would think the same logic could be applied to producers: how much have we given away in subsidies to (mostly grain) producers?

[Cairycat]

47. I find your Matthew quotation very apropos,

but many nominal "Christians" do not. Many such so-called Christians will say that the Sermon on the Mount (of which the quoted Beatitudes are a part) are hyperbole, not applicable to the present age or only applicable to the spiritual realm, and so on. The Wikipedia article on it has a good overview of all the various rationalizations people use for not living by the ideas Jesus taught.