President Correa on Assange in a recent interview.

[Luminous Animal]

(Also a link to my old thread with other updates from Ecuador, etc. because it won't kick to the first page anymore.http://www.democraticunderground.com/1002835642)

In Rio de Janeiro, in exclusive interview to Página/12 (Argentina), Carta Maior (Brazil), and La Jornada de México (México):

"We have not a vassal's soul":

“Assange wants to go to Ecuador to continue fulfilling his mission for freedom of expression without limits, because our country is a peaceful territory committed to justice and truth”

Correa also dismissed today that the Assange asylum-situation would cause tensions with the UK. He added:

"It is the last we would wish, but we are not going to ask permission to no country for us to take our sovereign decisions"
If any in Ecuador “would have done to anyone a hundredth part of what they have done to Assange we would be called despots and oppressors"

And this is the full paragraph with President Rafael Correa's statements in Rio de Janeiro, referred to the asylum requested by WikiLeaks founder Julian Assange. President Correa explains, "What the analysis of the asylum application consists of":

"Ecuador defends the right to life, one has to see if there is danger of death. Ecuador supports the right to due process, must see if so has been the case. Ecuador rejects the persecution of a political nature attacking the political rights of individuals. Must see if there is any breach or violation in this regard. That is the analysis"

http://ferrada-noli.blogspot.se/2012/06/declarations-made-by-president-rafael.html

[Tierra_y_Libertad]

1. "..because our country is a peaceful territory committed to justice and truth”

Too bad America can't say that, and mean it, as they pursue and imprison whistleblowers.

[IcyMint]

24. So true. :(

[treestar]

2. Some info

http://www.amnestyusa.org/research/reports/annual-report-ecuador-2011

http://www.state.gov/j/drl/rls/hrrpt/humanrightsreport/index.htm#wrapper
then go to Ecuador - it won't link directly to the Ecuador report

[sabrina 1]

4. I guess you know that any report on human rights by the US State Dept. on other

countries, especially those where the countries are struggling for independence from Western Corporate Powers, are generally not given much credibility around the world. And will not be until the US does something about its own criminal abuses of human rights, here and elsewhere. What is sad about the US now, once able to speak with authority on those rights, is how many countries respond to SOS Hillary Clinton's annual reports on Human Rights, by pointing to our own record and reminding the world that the US has no moral authority in this area any more.

The US wants puppet governments in South America as they had throughout the cold war, dictators who brutally abused, tortured, disappeared and murdered their own citizens, which was okay with the US and which those Latin American countries like Ecuador, are now workig to overcome.

Correa is one of the most of the most popular leaders in Latin America. It does the US no good to go back to its old ways of trying to demonize those the PEOPLE choose as their leaders.

It may be easy to fool the American people regarding US history in Latin America, but as Correa said in the above interview, it was when the majority of the people rose up and rejected the terrible policies backed by the US, that people like him came to power.

So linking to a US State Report on Latin America has really no credibility, until the US acknowledges its role in the corruption and genocide and torture over the past decades, of the people of Latin America.

Btw, the police in Ecuador, were being funded, even under Correa, by the US embassy. So, abuses by the police against indigenous people, are not a reflection on Correa, they are a continuation of those old Cold War policies so devastating to the people of that region of the world.

Correa cut that funding off and did what any sovereign country would to do a foreign Ambassador helping treasonous actions in their country, he sent the US ambassador home.

[treestar]

5. I knew someone would do that

But that does not make every single incident in the US State Department Reports wrong. And it has plenty of credibility with sane people the world over.

And there is Amnesty International.

Really, claiming Ecuador is more respecting of Human Rights than the US is delusional and a sign of rabid US hate. The US can speak with authority on human rights, too. Maybe there was some slippage during the Bush Administration.

The US does not control South America but if you are going to say it does, then current Ecuador would also be a "US puppet."

[sabrina 1]

6. The US still operates through its rightwing contacts

in Latin American countries. Despite the efforts of great leaders like Correa it will take time to remove all those who were complicit in the oppression of these countries.

The people rose up over the past decade in many of those countries and elected what would be the equivalent of Progressive Democrats instead of Right Wing Dictators.

But US Right Wing Corporate powers ARE still operating in S. America, and these Progressive Democratic leaders are still dealing with them. It will take a while, just as we cannot eliminate them from our political system here.

Wrt to our human rights record and Wikileaks, which has received awards FOR its contribution to exposing and in some cases, ending Human Rights abuses, you need to travel abroad to see the difference in attitudes towards the US since the Bush gang made torture and invasion of sovereign countries US policy.

We are not respected. But as Correa pointed out, he does not blame Obama who, he understands because he is in the same position, is still surrounded by rightwing elements in our government and only when those are removed can this country and his be totally free of that shameful past, Abu Ghraib, Torture in South America etc.

As for Amnesty, have you been following their reports on US Human Rights violations?

They do good work, like Wikileaks by highlighting human abuses all over the world. The US government with its 'kill lists' and invasions and killing of innocent people, not so much. To get a perspective of world opinion of this country, you need to travel outside the media bubble created to protect the American people here.

[treestar]

8. Ecuador is not a good place to hold up as the pinnacle of human rights

And not everything in the State Department report is wrong. It is too easy to dismiss it out of hand without even looking at it.

[sabrina 1]

10. Actually most Latin American countries, now struggling to overcome their

past dictatorships, are good examples of a region of the world working to eliminate human rights abuses that went on for decades.

Ecuador is not a dictatorship, it is a democracy, like the US, so ending all of these abuses, especially by the police, many of whom were being rewarded by outside right wing sources, will take time.

Our own judicial system here, is no example to be held up as a pinnacle of support for human rights.

In fact our prison system is among the worse in the civilized world not to mention we still practice the medieval barbarity known as the Death Penalty.

There is no Death Penalty in Ecuador, Venezuela or any of the European countries.

We stand alone among civilized nations to still be practitioners of that most barbaric of policies.

Not to mention, since even Saudi Arabia has abolished it for those who committed crimes while minors, we are the only nation to still put minors to death. This may have changed recently, but I have not checked but last I looked it was still in place.

If we want to point fingers at Ecuador, and it's amusing to see how each time a country takes a stand based on its own right as a sovereign nation, someone always jumps in with a list of charges, most of them when put in perspective, easily seen for what they are, an attempt to discredit ANYONE who dares to be independent of our influence.

How about just dealing with the issues at hand, instead of this constant attempt to NOT discuss the actual issues, but to distract from them, which has now become such a transparent tactic, it only serves to make us look even worse.

[treestar]

11. However, looking at the Amnesty report, we learn

There were mass demonstrations, many led by Indigenous Peoples' organizations, against government policies and legislation on issues such as natural resources; land; education; public services; and the lack of a clear process to guarantee the right of Indigenous Peoples to free, prior and informed consent on development projects and policies or legislation affecting them.

In February, Indigenous Peoples' organizations withdrew from discussions with the government over legislation on mining, water, land, education and the environment, because they believed the government was failing to engage meaningfully with their concerns.

In September, hundreds of police officers demonstrated against what they considered cuts in their pay and benefits. This was regarded by the government as an attempted coup. At least eight people, including two police officers, died during the protests and scores were injured, including the President who was hospitalized for the effects of tear gas. By the end of the year, scores of police officers were under investigation for a range of offences.


Charges of sabotage and terrorism were brought against human rights defenders, including Indigenous leaders, in an attempt to silence their opposition to government policies.

In June, investigations were opened against three Indigenous leaders - Marlon Santi, President of the Confederation of Indigenous Peoples of Ecuador; Delfin Tenesaca, leader of the Kichwa Confederation of Ecuador; and Marco Guatemal, President of the Indigenous and Peasant Federation of Imbabura - for terrorism and sabotage. The investigation was linked to their participation in a demonstration in Otavalo in protest at their exclusion from a summit of ALBA (Bolivarian Alliance for the Peoples of Our America) countries. The investigation was continuing at the end of the year.

In May, charges of sabotage and terrorism were brought against community leaders, Carlos Pérez and Federico Guzmán and three inhabitants of Victoria del Portete, Azuay province. The charges were connected to their involvement in a road blockade to protest against a draft law on water. The charges were dismissed by the courts in August.


Further human rights violations by members of the National Police group in charge of organized crime (Grupo de Apoyo Operacional, GAO) were reported. The group has been linked to scores of cases of torture and other ill-treatment and possible extrajudicial executions since its formation in 1996.

In July, the UN Special Rapporteur on extrajudicial executions raised concerns that the vast majority of alleged killings, including killings by police, remained unresolved due to a lack of thorough and independent investigations, inadequate victim and witness support and protection, and delays and corruption in the justice system.


Not exactly a Beacon of Human Rights. The US is much better.

[girl gone mad]

12. The US is much better?

No. In fact, after witnessing the violent suppression of the peaceful Occupy movement, it's clear to me that the US is much, much worse.

[Luminous Animal]

14. Indeed. Routine torture in prisons, massive numbers imprisoned, prosecution of whistleblowers,

the massive surveillance state....

http://www.democraticunderground.com/1002887417

[treestar]

18. Nothing like described in my prior post

Happens on a regular basis in the US. Occupy movement was not violently suppressed. It's still going on. No one goes to jail but for breaking the law.

And look at this, from the State Report:

Freedom of Speech: President Correa and his government continued verbal and legal attacks against the press during the year. The president regularly stated that the press was his “biggest enemy” and increasingly filed libel lawsuits against journalists. He also publicly encouraged government officials and private individuals to bring cases against the media.

Generally, individuals could criticize the government publicly or privately without reprisal. However, it is illegal to threaten or insult the president or executive branch, and violators can be reprimanded with six months’ to two years’ imprisonment or a fine of $16 to $77.

On February 26, the presidential guard briefly detained Marco Luis Sovenis after he shouted “fascist” at the president. In his weekly address on March 5, President Correa stated: “Like it or not, in this country it is a crime to shout ‘fascist’ at the president… We are going to bring the relevant criminal charges.” However, Sovenis was never formally charged.

I mean come on. Illegal to insult the president? If we had that law, we could put Rushbo and Sarah Palin in jail. Most of us could have been arrested during the Shrub Presidency.

[sabrina 1]

23. Protesters in the US have been arrested for going to a Bush rally wearing

Kerry tee-shirts among other things. I mean c'mon, arresting people for making political statements on their tee shirts?

[treestar]

29. Joe Wilson could have been arrested in Ecuador

Shrub is no longer President. I do not know if you have any proof even of the Bush arrests of Kerry supporters. But if Joe Wilson was not arrested, that proves our country allows people to insult the President with impunity. Correa could have had the equivalent of Wilson arrested.

Correa could have had Palin and Rushbo arrested several times over.

[sabrina 1]

31. You're working hard to discredit a country which under the current president

would never have arrested Joe Wilson and probably would have supported him in fact.

There are hundreds of thousands of Sarah Palin types and even more Rushbo types in Ecuador, yet none of them have been arrested.

The police were taking bribes from a foreign nation. What would this government do to public employees who were taking bribes from a foreign nation?

Maybe you should check out Ecuador's Right Wing Corporate Controlled media before assuming wrongly, that Correa would arrest the Right Wing Blowhards who fill their airwaves, slamming the left every day.

What's puzzling to me about your attacks on this country is that their government is now the quivalant of what would be a Progressive Democratic Government here. In doing so your are supporting the far Right Wing elements in Ecuador.

Correa eg supports the LGBT and Women's rights in a country that is 95% Catholic. His open support for minorities is well known and has paved the way for Latin America to move forward these issues.

But if want Ecuador back in the hands of the regressive right wing, that is truly very sad indeed. To want to set back the clock for Latin America to the days where Progressives were tortured and disappeared all with the approval of Kissinger and his ilk.

Me, I'm a democrat and I support every effort being made by Latin America to make sure those elements never return to power and that the region continues to progress as it has been doing over the past decade.

This Government should be ecstatic over the progress made in South America and should be encouraging the freedom and democracy established over the past few years, IF they mean it when they claim to support democracy.

Instead we are allies with some of the worst dictatorships in the world, such as Bahrain, Uzbekistan, Saudi Arabia while continuing to try to destabilize real democracies like Ecuador. Maybe you support that too, I don't know, but I support Progressive Democracy here and elsewhere.

[treestar]

35. There is power to arrest people who insult the President there

Apparently there is no First Amendment there. Some particular President not using that power does not mean it is not there. But here, that law would just not be allowed under our Constitution.

So there is no way they can claim to be anywhere near as respectful of basic Human Rights as we are.

[sabrina 1]

39. Ecuador's laws re libel and slander are similar to those in the UK.

It was used successfully against the right wing 'media' who were actually working for outside sources against their own government. And I can assure you that, 1st Amendment or not, if any major publication became a threat to this government by promoting violence and treason against the government, they would not just be sued, they would be charged.

And if you do not believe that, then look at the topic of the OP. Elected officials in this Government have called for the DEATH of a multi-award-winning Publisher and Editor of an International News Organization. And many more have called for the prosecution of that same journalist under the vile Espionage Act.

Thankfully we still have people like John Conyers who has opposed these frightening attacks on the rights of the Press to publish news. Surely, since you are so upset with a libel suit in Ecuador against a lying, vicious right wing propaganda machine, you must be outraged over the attacks on Wikileaks by our own government officials.

[treestar]

40. Nobody has called for his death

The dramatics!

And the "vile Espionage Act" is the law until challenged. And it can be challenged in the courts.

[sabrina 1]

43. So you admit he is correct when he claims the US is attempting to prosecute him.

And what would the charges be against a journalist who simply published facts, together with the NY Times, La Monde, The Guardian and many other publications who published the same material? Will they be prosecuted also?

And yes, elected officials here HAVE called his death. Where have you been?

Sarah Palin former candidate for VP of the US eg. And not one member of this government denounced her. That silence has been taken overseas, as consent.

Joe Lieberman has called for him, AND the NYT, The Guardian and any other publication that published the material obtained perfectly legitimately by a journalist from a whistle-blower, to be tried under the Espionage Act. Do you think the NYT are guilty of spying?

I agree regarding the 'drama' aspect, but I am not the drama queen here, it appears to be the US Government, freaking over a journalist doing his job.

The vile and way outdated Espionage Act WAS challenged and defeated in a case very similar to this, when thankfully, the US was not so far gone to the Right and the SC had not yet been hi-jacked by Corporations, and people like Joe Lieberman calling for the Press to be tried for treason, were viewed for what they were, insane.

The SC stopped the US Govt from silencing the NY Times in the Ellsberg case and restored their rights as journalists, concluding that the public's right to know superceded the government's desire for secrecy.

I'm not sure today's right wing court would be willing to defend and protect the Constitution as the court did back then, but that was a very close call when the 1st Amendment was in serious jeopardy.

And Ellsberg's case, which he himself has stated many times, was almost identical to Assange's. But that was then, this is now and I see democrats supporting this despite the huge threat to the freedom of the press. It is shameful, frankly, and then you accuse me of not being loyal to the US. Anyone who would do such damage to the constitution are who you should aim your criticisms at. I am defending what makes this country something to be proud of.

I am awed by the work of the FFs and saddened by those who would destroy it.

[sabrina 1]

15. UN Secretary General, Ban commends Ecuador’s efforts on democracy, human rights, environment

The UN disagrees with Amnesty, especially on the issue of the police who were NOT demonstrating against pay cuts, they were outraged that the corruption and treason in their ranks, taking bribes from a foreign nation, namely the US in this case, had been exposed and the BRIBES, not PAY CUTS, had ended.

http://www.un.org/apps/news/story.asp?NewsID=37531&Cr=Ecuador&Cr1

Ban commends Ecuador’s efforts on democracy, human rights, environment

Mr. Correa had to be taken to the hospital at that time after being hit by tear gas during a demonstration in Quito related to Government measures aimed at cutting some benefits for public servants such as police officers.

“At the time, I expressed my support for Ecuador’s democratic institutions and its elected Government. I am here now to stand with the Government and people of Ecuador,” Mr. Ban stated.

“I trust that with dialogue, Ecuador will continue to strengthen its institutions… advance development… and forge solidarity.”

He saluted Mr. Correa’s efforts to bring stability to the country since taking office four years ago, as well as the country’s engagement on human rights, stating that its open invitation to UN human rights experts is a “model” for other countries to follow.

Amnesty got it wrong, especially on the issue of the police.

AI has itself been criticized for having a Western bias due to the fact that 20% of its funding comes from Western Powers.

Their response to this allegation is that they ONLY report on countries that are relatively free and democratic, like Ecuador eg, and the US itself, because it is easier to get information on Democratic Countries.

Regarding their report on the Police, they either did not have the correct information or their sources were from the US.

The FACT is that when Correa took office in 2007, he became aware of the fact that members of the police were betraying Ecuador by giving information to the US Embassy. Remember who was the US President at that time, AND his connections to Ecuador's right wing, plus his purchase of land there, later negated by the Correa government.

The Wikileaks cables revealed a lot about US efforts to destabilize Latin American governments, like Ecuador's. We have 'interests' in these countries, mostly their resources which we seem to think belong to us. They beg to differ.

The police demonstrations:

These were in opposition to Correa's cutting off Western Funding, facilitated by the US Embassy under Bush. They were NOT as portrayed by AI, simply protests against salary cuts. The Government cut of BRIBES. Corruption!

Then an attempted coup took place. Correa survived this coup and the Government began an investigation into the treasonous attempted coup, as any Democratic nation has a right to do.

No western influenced organization can be trusted to report on the ME, Africa or South America.

This faulty report by Amnesty is proof of that.

Again, you continue to try to divert attention away from the issues.

Let me try to bring it back. Assange, who is no stranger to being on the run from brutal dictatorships, long before anyone in the US ever heard of him, for exposing their corruption and crimes, chose Ecuador to apply for asylum.

Why would he do that, a man who knows more about human rights abuses around the globe than anyone else? His choice Ecuador, considering his Award winning reporting on this issue world wide, speaks for itself.

He does challenge even people he respects, such as Correa, but his choice of Ecuador when his own life is on the line, is a very loud endorsement to Ecuador's commitment to continued improvement of human rights there and elsewhere.

As for the US being 'better than Ecuador on HRs?? One million innocent, dead Iraqis and untold numbers of others in Yemen, Pakistan, Afghanistan, Somalia, not to mention our recent past history of abuses in South and Central America.

We are making some improvements, but far too little, but to even try to compare Correa to the the US's past and ongoing abuses is simply so wrong, it's hard to know where to begin.

Tell me this when Correa invades a country and tortures and kills its innocent civilians. Americans need to stop trying to deny what the whole world knows, we can only regain the world's respect when we first acknowledge and then make amends for the crimes committed against against innocent people, for our backing of Dictators even now and our arrogant claims to be the 'pinnacle' of democracy.

[treestar]

19. Amnesty is Wrong?

Wow, that's some claim. And the international community always praises progress made in such countries where they can say there is some improvement.

[sabrina 1]

22. They are not infallible.

If they are ignoring the role of the police in accepting bribes from a foreign government in exchange for funneling national security information, they are wrong. I have not searched to find out if they have done so and condemned the attempts to destabilize Ecuador using the police, and others in that country, which has been common practice in Latin American and still is, by Western powers.

[treestar]

28. But the US government is completely fallible

[sabrina 1]

30. You said that, not I.

If that's what you deduce from people criticizing Bush policies, if you think Bush was always right, then I can't help you.

[treestar]

36. Huh? Have you ever admitted this country ever did anything right?

Under either Democratic or Republican Presidents? The US is always wrong and is the worst country ever, even Ecuador is supposedly a better Protector of Human Rights! A place where there the President can say "it is illegal to shout 'Fascist' at the President in this country."

[sabrina 1]

37. Yes, many times, all the time. What this country did right

was to support Democratic Ideals, providing for a long time, for the most vulnerable Americans, building a huge middle class whose standard of living was among the best in the world.

What I have not seen from you is a defense of the good this country is capable of, but rather attacks on those of us who want to preserve all that made this country great.

I do not support undermining the work of Democratic Presidents like FDR, yes we know he wasn't perfect, neither was Johnson, but in using the country's vast resources to provide for the American People, both those Democratic Presidents helped move this country in a better direction.

Supporting dictators, getting involved in foreign adventures, is BAD for America. Yet I have never seen you oppose these policies which are undermining this country's place in the world.

You seem to feel that supporting or loving something or someone involves turning a blind eye when they go wrong. I believe the opposite, I believe that IF you love your country, your child, your spouse eg you will not remain silent, or turn a blind eye when it/they are headed in the wrong direction.

I like how you questioned my 'loyalty' though. Not a very progressive thing to do from my recollection of history.

I hope I have sufficiently defended myself against any further 'have you ever' type accusations to the satisfaction of any future inquisitors.

For the record, no matter how much I have ever disagreed with anyone here or elsewhere I have never questioned their loyalty to their country. Mainly because I cannot think of a lower form of 'discussion'. You owe me an apology I suppose, but I don't expect to get one.

[sabrina 1]

17. Meant to add, and ask, who are these police? The US funded ones

who have always brutally attacked the indigenous people of Ecuador? This is a very, very flawed 'report' from AI, and causes me to understand the complaints about their report as they do not identify anyone here and we all know that, like here where Bush appointees are still operating in our government, those old right wing elements are still operating in Ecuador also and it will take a lot of time to root them out and start prosecuting them.

Correa has stated, correctly, that when he does this, holds them responsible, the West then attacks him. And this is a perfect example of his claim.

I'll go with the UN's assessment as they appear to have done a lot more investigation into the facts than AI has in this case.

[treestar]

20. The US is at fault?

U.S. Derangement Syndrome. Correa has the power to arrest people who "insult" him. We have nothing near that in our laws. And why would we impose that on Ecuador? You have no proof Ecuador's human rights violations are our own country's fault.

[sabrina 1]

21. No, he has the power, as does any leader of a Democratic nation, to hold accountable

people, such as the police, who commit treason.

What he does not have the power to do in Ecuador is to order the extra-judicial assassination of anyone he designates as a 'terrorist', unlike the POTUS. Only Kings and Dictators possess such frightening powers.

[treestar]

27. The POTUS does not have any such power

If you think he is doing that, get your Rep to vote for his impeachment. The Constitution and laws don't allow that in the US.

There is nothing to prove Ecuador would not do it given the power to do so.

The most pervasive violations of women’s rights involved domestic and sexual violence. Although prohibited by law, both were widespread and vastly underreported, again due to for fear of retribution, social stigma, and further violence. Although authorities referred many women who reported domestic abuse or sexual crimes to the judicial system, cultural prejudices, financial dependence or lack of financial resources, family pressure, and the victim’s fear of testifying at a trial contributed to a large number of charges against perpetrators being dropped. Between January and June, 2,437 domestic violence complaints were filed.

Hmm, now we see possibly how Julian chose this country.

The government increasingly filed legal charges or opened investigations against protesters who blocked roads or impeded public services, charging demonstrators with “terrorism and sabotage” or similar charges that effectively criminalized protest. NGOs estimated that 100 to 200 persons faced criminal charges for their participation in protests.

On August 8, indigenous leaders Carlos Perez, Federico Guzman, and Efren Arpi were sentenced to eight days in jail for illegally obstructing roads and interrupting public services during an April 2010 protest.

In October 25, indigenous leader Marco Guatemal was arrested on misdemeanor charges for illegally obstructing roads during an April 2010 protest. Guatemal was initially charged with terrorism, but the charges were later reduced. A judge dismissed the case on November 10 due to lack of evidence after Guatemal spent 17 days in pretrial detention.

In September 2010 indigenous leaders Pepe Acacho, Fidel Kaniras, and Pedro Mashiant Chamik were charged with terrorism and sabotage for allegedly inciting an indigenous protest that led to the death of Bosco Wisuma in 2009. On February 1, the defendants were detained and transferred to a jail in Quito. On February 8, a judge ruled the detention “illegal and arbitrary” and released the defendants, who had been fulfilling the terms of their probation. The defendants remained on probation, and the case was pending at year’s end.

So much for how Occupy would fare there.

[sabrina 1]

32. Occupy fared well in the US?? Are you serious? In a coordinated

attack across the country the US attempted to crush the Occupy Movement, arresting, beating and abusing peaceful protesters, some of them still in jail charged with, guess what? Yes, 'TERRORISM'

I never saw you standing up for Occupiers on this board so your sudden concern for them now, especially in other countries, is very odd, to say the least. In fact, if my memory is correct, were you not among the few here who defended the Government's attacks on OWS? You can correct me if I'm wrong.

You seem to be trying to discredit one of the most popular Progressive Democratic leaders in Latin America and failing badly. But the question is why? Why would a Democrat try to do that? Correa has a 70% approval rating in Ecuador from a people who have been trying to do what Occupy is trying here, to minimize the power of the Global Oligarchs. So clearly Occupy's main message would appeal to Correa, he is the end result of the people's protest against the 1% who trashed that region of the world.

The reason Occupy is smaller in Latin America is because the decades of destruction by the 1% there is now being addressed with the elections of people like Correa who is still fighting them, and their PROPAGANDA, every day.

How about dealing with the topic of the OP? Attacking Latin American Progressive Democrats is a distraction from the main topic, and continually reposting about that one issue, which you don't seem to understand, nor have much understanding of the history of the US and Latin America, certainly doesn't address it.

[treestar]

34. I am merely telling you what the state department and Amnesty observed

in Ecuador. Name a single Occupier in jail on charges of "terrorism" or for "obstructing public roads" or "insulting the President."

I do not have to have any posting history on Occupiers to observe that in Ecuador they would have a lot more problems.

[sabrina 1]

38. Sigh, the 'Nato Three' still in jail, accused of terrorism

Over 7,000 peaceful protesters arrested, so far, including members of the Press who are now suing because of the trampling of their rights as journalists.

The evidence of the brutal crackdown on Occupiers in this country is vast and documented, and was so bad it was addressed by the UN's Human Rights Rappateur, concerned for the safety of Occupiers.

Occupiers are few in Ecuador, although the movement does exist there. Basically they are not need there thanks to the fact that their government is now addressing the problems Occupy stands for.

It exists mostly in countries where the problems are not being addressed.

[treestar]

41. If that is true and not exaggeration

Sigh, they are in the US, and have right to counsel, speedy trial, trial by jury, and can appeal and challenge the laws. And maybe some are guilty of whatever the charge is. "Terrorism" does not sound like a real charge, but rather an editorializing of the real charges by some extremist. It would be a state charge, and surely if you know so much about it, you could cite the statute they are charged under.

Ecuador's system is a lot worse off:

e. Denial of Fair Public Trial
While the constitution provides for an independent judiciary, in practice the judiciary was susceptible to outside pressure and corruption. The media reported on the susceptibility of the judiciary to bribes for favorable decisions and faster resolution of legal cases. Judges occasionally reached decisions based on media influence or political and economic pressures.

On May 13, Minister of the Interior Jose Serrano threatened to bring criminal charges against a judge for corruption and bias. Serrano’s accusations stemmed from the judge’s ruling in favor of Cesar Carrion, who was accused of attempting to assassinate the president during the police protest of September 2010.

In some cases the outcome of trials appeared predetermined, and there were credible allegations by defendants and the press that verdicts delivered by judges were not actually written by them. In the libel suit brought by President Correa against the newspaper El Universo (see section 2.a.), the presiding judge published a 156-page decision 25 hours after the hearing. In similar cases such decisions usually take at least two weeks (and often significantly longer) to produce. The defendants alleged that the decision was not written by the presiding judge, but rather copied onto the judge’s computer from an external memory device. The defendants filed a complaint against the judge that was under investigation by the Guayas attorney general at year’s end.

Trial Procedures
Despite efforts to modernize the court system, the judiciary continued to operate slowly and inconsistently. There were lengthy delays before most cases came to trial. Judges reportedly rendered decisions more quickly or more slowly due to political pressure or, in some cases, the payment of bribes. The failures of the justice system contributed to cases in which communities took the law into their own hands, including mob violence against suspected criminals.

[sabrina 1]

42. No link, so I don't know where you got that.

But Cesar Carrion was charged with being part of the attempted coup of the President of Ecuador. He is a very lucky man, considering the president had to be rescued by Ecuadoran troops from the police hospital.

Bradley Manning who was merely a whistle-blower, was held in solitary confinement and tortured for months, until the UN tried to intervene, and State Dept official P.J. Crowley went public calling his treatment 'counter-productive'. Crowley is no longer in the State Dept, forced to resign, but he was correct and his intervention resulted in putting an end to the torture of Bradley Manning who is and was after all, innocent.

Now, if Manning had been part of an attempted coup, had been present when the president was held captive, he would be facing the death penalty.

Ecuador has no death penalty. Another fact that makes Cesar Carrion a very lucky man.

There is no exaggeration regarding the protesters who have been charged with terrorism. Nine people were arrested in that apartment during the NATO protests, two of whom turned out to be FBI agents. The protesters are being held on over one million dollars bail.

The whole story stinks to high heaven as most people familiar with it have stated. Especially considering the fact that the same three young men had been followed by the police a few days before, attacked by them which they filmed and put on UTube, embarrassing them apparently.

Not to mention there were witnesses in the apartment. They had beer-making equipment, the FBI infiltrators brought the molotov cocktails, and the raid took place after which these kids were charged with terrorism and their bail set so high they will not be getting out OR getting a trial anytime soon.

Please stop this. We have people confined in Gitmo and in other secret prisons around the world who have never, EVER had access to any justice.

Ecuador's system of justice is very lenient considering the crimes alleged in your link. I think they need to get tougher on these rightwing traitors frankly.

Only in the US do we see these attacks on these emerging democracies, coming out from under dictatorships after decades of oppression. And up to recently, only on the Right in this country. Democrats have celebrated the work being done by Correa, again the most popular Democratic leader in Latin America.

You appear to be very misinformed about all of this, so it's hardly worth continuing to discuss it as you are arguing against the facts and with a very obvious bias, and little knowledge of the subject of Ecuador, its history, its current situation or anything else.

Clearly Assange disagrees with you and feels a lot safer going to Ecuador than to the US, where we still practice torture and the Death Penalty and still arrest journalists. See Occupy for the latest numbers of journalists harassed and mistreated and arrested in this country recently.

If it makes you feel better to defend what are Bush policies which IS what you are doing, and condemn Democratic Sovereign Nations which are way ahead of us at this tragic period in history, then that is your right, but it doesn't make you right.

You say we have a better system of justice?? Ask the citizens of Britain, France, Spain, Afghanistan, Australia, Canada who were kidnapped, chained and hooded, humiliated and flown to Guantanamo Bay, kept for years, tortured, refused Habeas Corpus rights, denied any justice and never charged with any crimes.

I don't think they would agree with you, and I think all of them would have given their lives to have been in Ecuador rather than Bush's America.

[MADem]

25. +1 nt

[sabrina 1]

3. This is a great interview Assange did with Correa

a few weeks ago if you did not see it.

[Luminous Animal]

7. Thanks for adding the link, sabrina. I've watched all of Assange's shows.

They've been great!

[freshwest]

9. Interesting link.

[Luminous Animal]

13. Feinstein renews calls for Assange to be prosecuted for espionage.

http://www.smh.com.au/national/us-senator-calls-to-prosecute-assange-20120701-21b3n.html

THE head of the US Senate's powerful intelligence oversight committee has renewed calls for Julian Assange to be prosecuted for espionage.

The US Justice Department has also confirmed WikiLeaks remains the target of an ongoing criminal investigation, calling into question Australian government claims that the US has no interest in extraditing Mr Assange.

''I believe Mr Assange has knowingly obtained and disseminated classified information which could cause injury to the United States,'' the chairwoman of the Senate Select Committee on Intelligence, Dianne Feinstein, said in a written statement provided to the Herald. ''He has caused serious harm to US national security, and he should be prosecuted accordingly.''
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Senator Feinstein's call for the Obama administration to move ahead with plans to prosecute Mr Assange came as a US Justice Department spokesman, Dean Boyd, publicly confirmed that ''there continues to be an investigation into the WikiLeaks matter''.

[sabrina 1]

16. It's a disgrace, really. Elected of officials, especially democrats,

going to such extremes to suppress an award-winning, International News Organization.

This case is so similar to the case of Daniel Ellsberg which is why he is such a supporter of Julian Assange and Wikileaks.

You can tell a lot about someone by who their supporters are.

Btw, did you see Assange's interview with Noam Chomsky this week?

I'll take Chomsky's and Ellsberg's word over war profiteer Feinstein, or Lieberman or Palin, Fox, Hannity et al any day.

[KoKo]

33. +1

[xchrom]

26. Du rec. Nt

[inna]

44. DU rec and a link you will probably find interesting:

http://killinghope.org/bblum6/aer106.html

(from my yahoo inbox... i actually subscribe to updates on that site, and this latest update made me think of - and appreciate, of course - your Correa/Assange posts... did a quick search and found this thread )