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Declare the last election null and void (Original Post) BSdetect Mar 2017 OP
I'd like that, though it's not likely. SharonAnn Mar 2017 #1
There is no constitutional mechanism lapucelle Mar 2017 #2
I agree lapfog_1 Mar 2017 #4
Stolen elections should have consequences too Generic Brad Mar 2017 #6
Exactly, steal an election, rot in jail. L. Coyote Mar 2017 #13
except it was a scam. triron Mar 2017 #7
There is no legal way to do that. hrmjustin Mar 2017 #3
Ummm, how exactly do you propose this be done? PoindexterOglethorpe Mar 2017 #5
I get your point... forgotmylogin Mar 2017 #16
There really is a difference between being stranded on a desert island and removing a stupid pillow PoindexterOglethorpe Mar 2017 #20
Okay Poindexter. forgotmylogin Mar 2017 #21
I actually like that image: me throwing down my clipboard and leaving the room. PoindexterOglethorpe Mar 2017 #42
There was a war crime committed to install a treasonous bastard. That isn't an "election". boston bean Mar 2017 #40
There is no "upholstery law". former9thward Mar 2017 #28
Wouldn't the airline in this case own the pillow? (nt) bekkilyn Mar 2017 #30
It matters not who owns the pillow. former9thward Mar 2017 #47
Unless! bekkilyn Mar 2017 #48
Yes, I'm aware. forgotmylogin Mar 2017 #46
Thanks for this post. Stay creative and have courage. triron Mar 2017 #8
Could you get me a pony while you're at it? onenote Mar 2017 #9
kick for visibility triron Mar 2017 #10
It won't happen, but if it did... Orrex Mar 2017 #11
false equivalence triron Mar 2017 #12
Vapid objection Orrex Mar 2017 #14
If the election was a scam perhaps there is a legal mechanism? triron Mar 2017 #15
There is a legal process in place for removal of the President and succession Maru Kitteh Mar 2017 #23
You could definitely "appoint" HRC or any other Democrat within the confines of the law. forjusticethunders Mar 2017 #34
Magical thinking. onenote Mar 2017 #35
It's extremely, extremely unlikely like I said. forjusticethunders Mar 2017 #36
What is theoretically possible and what is within the "realm of conception" are different things onenote Mar 2017 #39
No. It is not. Maru Kitteh Mar 2017 #43
Let them have an illegitimate president for 4 years ProudLib72 Mar 2017 #17
Magical thinking. truebluegreen Mar 2017 #18
A lot of that around here lately. cwydro Mar 2017 #31
That would be lovely. But constitutionally, it cannot happen. NurseJackie Mar 2017 #19
And we never had this type of interference in our elections from an enemy of our nation before.. iluvtennis Mar 2017 #22
Sure. All you need is a super-majority in both houses or ratification by 2/3 of the states. Maru Kitteh Mar 2017 #24
This "election" will be seen as a joke ck4829 Mar 2017 #25
Everything can have a precedent. A first time. Keep believing. caroldansen Mar 2017 #26
Everything can have a precedent. A first time. Keep believing. caroldansen Mar 2017 #27
As much as Republicans detest "judicial activists" Mr. Ected Mar 2017 #29
We cannot be bound by an outdated impeachment process. BSdetect Mar 2017 #45
With this Congress? Supreme Court? GWC58 Mar 2017 #32
Is Michael Scott available? sl8 Mar 2017 #33
Both me and my magical unicorn would love to see that happen. Tommy_Carcetti Mar 2017 #37
How about one of the guys from Marvel comics? grantcart Mar 2017 #38
I hereby declare the last election null and void. HeartachesNhangovers Mar 2017 #41
knr triron Mar 2017 #44

lapucelle

(19,235 posts)
2. There is no constitutional mechanism
Thu Mar 23, 2017, 11:08 PM
Mar 2017

to undo or redo a presidential election, and I doubt very much that Hillary would be on board for any kind of "arranged" presidency anyway.

Elections have consequences. Like in 2000, this is an especially painful lesson.

lapfog_1

(29,540 posts)
4. I agree
Thu Mar 23, 2017, 11:19 PM
Mar 2017

but what will happen if the Repukes fail to remove a proven traitor from office?

What happens when he imposes martial law nationwide to root out those violent illegals and the dissidents who dared to protest against him?

What is the constitutional remedy then?

What about just simple harassment, demands for "papers" just for traveling by car between the states... more voter suppression?

The framers never imagined that not only the President would be a traitor, but he would he the head of a party of traitors that control the House, the Senate, the Supreme Court and, of course, the Presidency.

Generic Brad

(14,319 posts)
6. Stolen elections should have consequences too
Thu Mar 23, 2017, 11:52 PM
Mar 2017

Our democracy was subverted and destroyed. There is no longer a constitution.

Make them walk the plank. Hang them high. Pants them and boot them in the rear. If rules no longer apply, then the punishment and disgrace they experience should be extreme.

 

triron

(22,240 posts)
7. except it was a scam.
Fri Mar 24, 2017, 12:00 AM
Mar 2017

this is an exceptional circumstance. Perhaps if it's an illegal coup she would be on board and legitimately

PoindexterOglethorpe

(26,043 posts)
5. Ummm, how exactly do you propose this be done?
Thu Mar 23, 2017, 11:48 PM
Mar 2017

You do understand there is simply no mechanism for such a thing, yes?

Please think through all of the details before posting something like this.

And I know that there has been at least one other OP about declaring the election null and void, or having a do-over, and it's disheartening to see this degree of ignorance here on DU.

forgotmylogin

(7,598 posts)
16. I get your point...
Fri Mar 24, 2017, 12:48 AM
Mar 2017

But if you're stranded on a desert island and that airplane pillow tag is bugging you, are you gonna remain bound by upholstery law that says DO NOT REMOVE THIS TAG or are you going to get by however you can?

Does the law apply after they've torn it all down, soaked it in gasoline, and set it ablaze?

The Constitution is amendable; the Forefathers set it up that way. They knew shit would come down the pipe they hadn't planned for.

PoindexterOglethorpe

(26,043 posts)
20. There really is a difference between being stranded on a desert island and removing a stupid pillow
Fri Mar 24, 2017, 01:12 AM
Mar 2017

tag, and undoing an election.

If you honestly think the two are comparable, then we haven't a common point of discussion.

forgotmylogin

(7,598 posts)
21. Okay Poindexter.
Fri Mar 24, 2017, 01:43 AM
Mar 2017

I was drawing a parallel by reduction. I said I understood your point.

Laws are updated and modified and changed. 45 certainly has no problem with doing so where it suits him.

I was pointing out that even though there isn't precedent, that it would be possible to set a precedent legally. There are many laws that had to evolve when new situations crop up. Probably when the first cars came out, there was no precedent for a 55mph speed limit because model Ts probably didn't push 30. Just because there is no precedent in no way disallows one from being set. New precedent is set in legal decisions all the time.

While I agree the chances of this are low, my speculation wasn't intended to cause you to throw down your clipboard and leave the room just because you don't agree.

former9thward

(32,675 posts)
28. There is no "upholstery law".
Fri Mar 24, 2017, 07:53 AM
Mar 2017

I am always amazed at the number of people who think there is an actual law about pillow tags that applies to people who buy them.

former9thward

(32,675 posts)
47. It matters not who owns the pillow.
Fri Mar 24, 2017, 06:05 PM
Mar 2017

They bought it and they or anyone else can do what they want with it. The tag applies to retailers who sell the product.

bekkilyn

(454 posts)
48. Unless!
Fri Mar 24, 2017, 07:05 PM
Mar 2017

The desert island belongs to a country where pillow tags apply to everyone!

(And yes, I'm being even sillier now, but I've already forgotten what the actual thread topic was about! And pillow tags are probably more fun anyway. )

onenote

(43,414 posts)
9. Could you get me a pony while you're at it?
Fri Mar 24, 2017, 12:05 AM
Mar 2017

Magical thinking is a waste of time better spent thinking about how we can elect more Democrats and get them to hang tough against the repubs.

Orrex

(63,571 posts)
11. It won't happen, but if it did...
Fri Mar 24, 2017, 12:26 AM
Mar 2017

Republicans would forever after be very strongly motivated to declare every Democratic presidency null and void.

 

triron

(22,240 posts)
15. If the election was a scam perhaps there is a legal mechanism?
Fri Mar 24, 2017, 12:45 AM
Mar 2017

No precedent for this except international.

Maru Kitteh

(28,451 posts)
23. There is a legal process in place for removal of the President and succession
Fri Mar 24, 2017, 02:27 AM
Mar 2017

It doesn't matter if the principals are removed for misconduct, pass away naturally, die in an attack, etc. The law provides for an orderly process, and nowhere in that lawful process is the installment of a person from outside the chain of succession. That would truly be Banana Republic territory.

Here's how it goes if Pence and Trump both fall.
https://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/text/3/19

Trump, and anyone else around him who knew of his collusion with Russia must be removed, and we must remain mobilized and energized to weaken and destroy whoever slithers in to take his place.

While we work to help fell Trump, our eyes also need to be focused finely on mid-terms, and taking back the Senate and the House - and then on 2020.

 

forjusticethunders

(1,151 posts)
34. You could definitely "appoint" HRC or any other Democrat within the confines of the law.
Fri Mar 24, 2017, 09:17 AM
Mar 2017

You just have to do it in a certain order in order to conform with the 25th Amendment.

Let's say the FBI probe finds out that the entire GOP leadership, from Reince to Ryan to Hatch was complicit in treason, and there's enough hard evidence to make it stick. Trump and Pence get this deal: Resign or face impeachment, removal and conviction for treason, and as part of that deal, we get a defacto "invalidation" of the stolen election. So it goes like this:

Pence resigns > Trump appoints HRC as VP > Congress confirms > Trump resigns > HRC appoints Kaine (or whoever really) > HRC fires all of Trump's cabinet picks.

This is an extreme long shot (basically you don't just need smoking gun evidence, you need .50 cal on fire evidence to get the GOP to cave like this) but this is something that can actually happen in reality, not something like "invalidate the election".

 

forjusticethunders

(1,151 posts)
36. It's extremely, extremely unlikely like I said.
Fri Mar 24, 2017, 09:26 AM
Mar 2017

But it's a possibility that exists within the legal reality of the American Constitution. Basically if it escalates to the point where the choices are "get a Democratic President" or "total party annihilation" then suddenly taking a deal like that seems within the realm of conception.

onenote

(43,414 posts)
39. What is theoretically possible and what is within the "realm of conception" are different things
Fri Mar 24, 2017, 11:07 AM
Mar 2017

It is theoretically possible the Democrats in Congress will all band together to vote for the repeal of Social Security. It is not remotely within the realm of conception that they would do so.

So too with the "extremely extremely unlikely" scenario you postulate. Let's imagine that there was evidence that Trump, Pence, Ryan and Hatch were somehow complicit in something unlawful relating to the election. There are a number of conceivable scenarios as to how that might play out -- scenarios that are far more conceivable than the one you suggest and that push your concept to the outer boundaries of the realm of conception or beyond.

Put another way, removing Ryan and Hatch from their positions in the line of succession, and replacing them, requires only a majority vote (removing them from Congress requires a 2/3 vote). Why wouldn't the republicans simply vote for a replacement from their own ranks, who would then succeed to the presidency upon the resignation of Trump and Pence? What leverage do the Democrats have to force a convoluted game of musical chairs to install Clinton (or any other Democrat for that matter) in the White House? The threat of impeachment? As noted, that could be avoided by Trump and Pence resigning, which is part of your proposal. The threat of prosecution? The new president could and would pardon them and the Democrats would be unable to stop it. If the situation is so bad that even Republicans feel that Trump and Pence and Ryan and Hatch have to go, they wouldn't participate in a charade that let's them avoid prosecution -- they'd let the new president, presumably there as a caretaker until Cruz/Rubio/blah blah blah runs in 2020.

So, yes, magical thinking.



Maru Kitteh

(28,451 posts)
43. No. It is not.
Fri Mar 24, 2017, 12:48 PM
Mar 2017

It does not exist as a legal reality. There is no legal mechanism for what you describe, at all. It is indeed, magical thinking. Not "extremely unlikely;" but non-existent.

Pence resigns and Trump makes HRC VP? Oh my god.

We have to stay grounded in reality and FIGHT based on the very real situation before us. That means not dreaming up fairy-tale solutions but actually putting forth the efforts that matter to affect real ones. Calling our representatives, showing up to town halls and other protests, getting involved at the local level, volunteering. Wishful thinking is a waste of time and emotional energy, and we need every bit of that energy for what lies ahead.


ProudLib72

(17,984 posts)
17. Let them have an illegitimate president for 4 years
Fri Mar 24, 2017, 01:00 AM
Mar 2017

Let them not be able to pass a damned thing because they are so afraid of being shot for it. Let every town hall erupt into cries of "Illegitimate". Let them be forever branded as the party of Russia.

Or lock him up. Whichever way works for me.

iluvtennis

(20,200 posts)
22. And we never had this type of interference in our elections from an enemy of our nation before..
Fri Mar 24, 2017, 02:03 AM
Mar 2017

...maybe it time to consider amendments/mods to the constitution to address this situation.

Maru Kitteh

(28,451 posts)
24. Sure. All you need is a super-majority in both houses or ratification by 2/3 of the states.
Fri Mar 24, 2017, 02:43 AM
Mar 2017

No problem.

We need to deal in reality, and get the work done on the ground - expand our efforts at voter registration, educate, advocate, and show up. When Trump is impeached we need to ensure whatever slithers in behind him is defeated soundly. We need to give our very last to make sure the mid-terms see our return in the House and Senate.

Reality-based expectations and goals are much more productive and rewarding.

Mr. Ected

(9,680 posts)
29. As much as Republicans detest "judicial activists"
Fri Mar 24, 2017, 07:59 AM
Mar 2017

Wouldn't it be sweet if the Supreme Court, having heard evidence of treason, espionage, racketeering and obstruction of justice by the Republican Party in Election 2016, would overturn the election and install HRC as President?

Yes, a pipe dream, but nothing more fantastic than the 2000 decision handing Junior the presidency.

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