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Thu Mar 16, 2017, 05:50 PM

the conservative wet dream

Charles Pierce wrote a great piece connecting Reaganomics to Trumpism "This Is the Ending Conservatives Always Wanted ": http://www.democraticunderground.com/10028801542
Nothing has changed for Conservatives.

And this is why support for Trump is still high among republicans.

I'll confess that I went through a libertarian phase I'm glad I escaped, and I won't miss the libertarian dudebros, but dipping my feet a little in conservatism allowed me to see how terrible yet intoxicating it was because everything was prefaced with words like "liberty" and "freedom".

- why should my tax payer dollars pay for services controlled by "inept" government bureaucrats who "bungle" everything
- why should government interfere in "my business"
- why should government dictate anything to me.

The influence of the Birchers and the Heritage Foundation are all over Mulvaney's budget. But we've heard this all before. By the time I was born, the impact of the Reagan years were still keenly felt and from what I know of history, the same issues Democrats were fighting then, are the same issues we're fighting today. Trumpism is the pinnacle of conservatism where environmental protections are repealed, military spending is increased, taxes on the wealthy are slashed, renewable energy technologies get the shaft favoring extractive industries so here we are in 2017 debating already settled questions about Climate Change, supporting the arts, wages, expanding the social safety net/ expanding healthcare coverage, and protecting the environment the best way we can, even the right to clean air and clean water.

Liberty for republicans is the freedom to be selfish, damn the outcomes.

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Response to JHan (Original post)

Thu Mar 16, 2017, 05:57 PM

1. not quite the freedom to be selfish, at least, not that freedom for all.

that freedom is only for the rich and powerful.

the freedom they really want is the freedom to exert power and control over other people.

power over minorities,
power over women,
power over the poor,
etc.

they want poor black women people to work hard at multiple jobs paying meager wages, be subjected to drug tests, go hungry, denied healthcare, shut up, look pretty, smile, quit complaining, don't buy an iphone, don't drive a cadillac even if you got it used 20 years old, etc.

they don't fight for freedom for the people who actually are in need of it.

they only fight for freedom for the people who have wealth and power.

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Response to unblock (Reply #1)

Thu Mar 16, 2017, 06:04 PM

2. Yes. A return to feudalism. Oligarchs reign supreme.

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Response to JHan (Reply #2)

Thu Mar 16, 2017, 09:32 PM

9. If rich people believe that will happen, shame on them.

Soon, there will be nowhere for those inheriting their money to find safe harbor. When 90% of the people in America and the world don't have jobs, the 10% that do have jobs and wealth better hope that social democratic policy has spread far and wide, else it will be off with their privileged heads in the public square.

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Response to Blue_true (Reply #9)

Thu Mar 16, 2017, 10:34 PM

12. perhaps a reason why they favor increased militarisation of protective "services"..

and yes, social democratic principles are the only thing that will save us in the future. A lot of money has been spent to turn minds against that fact.

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Response to JHan (Original post)

Thu Mar 16, 2017, 06:10 PM

3. Yeah, although oddly conservatives want to put people in prison for pot smoking and gay sex

So "freedom" seems to begin and end on April 15.

The thing is, there is about half of libertarian logic that makes perfect sense, that we as good progressives should be embracing as our agenda. The social or "left" side, the idea that consenting adults should be free to make their own decisions about their own lives. And really, who among us could disagree?

Pot should be legal (and regulated, and taxed) ..
Drugs in general should be treated as a public health, not law enforcement, issue..
the Government shouldn't be telling adults they can't watch porn on the internet or see full frontal nudity on Game of Thrones..
The Government has no business telling LGBT people they can't marry the person they love, and certainly doesn't have the right to throw consenting adults in prison for having sex with someone of the same Gender, as Texas was able to do until the Lawrence Decision.
The terminally ill should be able to choose a pain-free dignified exit on their own terms, not "God" or the Government's, and in fact all pain patients have a right to good and effective pain management as their doctors, not the DEA, determine is warranted.
Obviously, the choice to have children, or not, or to carry a pregnancy in ones own body, is about the MOST personal of all decisions, and should be left to the woman in question.


Who could disagree with ANY of that?

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Response to Warren DeMontague (Reply #3)

Thu Mar 16, 2017, 06:36 PM

4. what you describe is what roped me in at first..

The thing is, there is about half of libertarian logic that makes perfect sense, that we as good progressives should be embracing as our agenda. The social or "left" side, the idea that consenting adults should be free to make their own decisions about their own lives.


This. And that's as pure a definition of liberal thinking you'll ever find.

As for the religious conservatives, it's hypocrisy. They're fine with dictating things they want to control ( like sex) while finding ways to cull the most vulnerable, and when that gets mixed with the libertarian view which scoffs at the importance of a social dividend, we get hell.

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Response to JHan (Reply #4)

Thu Mar 16, 2017, 08:09 PM

5. Exactly. Freedom isn't a dirty word.

And there is absolutely no reason we should be ceding it to the Shruggernauts.

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Response to Warren DeMontague (Reply #3)

Thu Mar 16, 2017, 09:35 PM

10. George Hanson: You know, this used to be a helluva good country.

 

I can't understand what's gone wrong with it.

Billy: Man, everybody got chicken, that's what happened. Hey, we can't even get into like, a second-rate hotel, I mean, a second-rate motel, you dig? They think we're gonna cut their throat or somethin'. They're scared, man.

George Hanson: They're not scared of you. They're scared of what you represent to 'em.

Billy: Hey, man. All we represent to them, man, is somebody who needs a haircut.

George Hanson: Oh, no. What you represent to them is freedom.

Billy: What the hell is wrong with freedom? That's what it's all about.

George Hanson: Oh, yeah, that's right. That's what's it's all about, all right. But talkin' about it and bein' it, that's two different things. I mean, it's real hard to be free when you are bought and sold in the marketplace. Of course, don't ever tell anybody that they're not free, 'cause then they're gonna get real busy killin' and maimin' to prove to you that they are. Oh, yeah, they're gonna talk to you, and talk to you, and talk to you about individual freedom. But they see a free individual, it's gonna scare 'em.

Billy: Well, it don't make 'em runnin' scared.

George Hanson: No, it makes 'em dangerous.

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Response to JHan (Original post)

Thu Mar 16, 2017, 08:32 PM

6. Pretty much says it all...

Those of us on the left have been saying this kind of thing for years. We can only hope some people are listening.

Oh, and here's a link to the orginal aritcle (not a click-through to a DU thread): http://linkis.com/www.esquire.com/news/ZNTsJ

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Response to Wounded Bear (Reply #6)

Thu Mar 16, 2017, 08:52 PM

7. thanks for the direct link..

shared the DU link because first became aware of it thnks to kpete. The article is a stunning read, and crystallized why I am a democrat and a liberal. And this bit:


This is it, right here, this budget. This is the beau ideal of movement conservative governance. This is the logical, dystopian end of Reaganism, and Gingrichism, and Tea Partyism, and all the other Isms that movement conservatism has inflicted upon the political commonwealth. This is the vast, noxious swamp into which all those tributaries of modern conservative thought have emptied themselves. People die in there, swallowed up in deep sinkholes of empowered bigotry and class anger.

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Response to JHan (Original post)

Thu Mar 16, 2017, 09:26 PM

8. The important thing to remember is that there is no difference

between "corporate" Democrats and republicans, according to some loud yellers. The differences between democratic policies and republican policies is the same as eating a delicious meal versus getting him in the face by a hammer, only a fool can't recognize the differences.

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Response to Blue_true (Reply #8)

Thu Mar 16, 2017, 10:32 PM

11. and the quicker folks realise that the better,

if we continue to attack our own with more ferocity than our enemies, we're screwed. The constant self loathing also has to stop.

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