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Sat Feb 11, 2017, 06:35 PM

Overview of the Trump/Russia collusion and timeline PLEASE READ!

Last edited Sun Feb 12, 2017, 11:59 PM - Edit history (4)

I've seen so many threads here and elsewhere that relate, pertain, or detail various aspects of the treasonous coup recently perpetrated on our democracy, but have yet to see all the available information synthesized into a single, cohesive framework and timeline. Most of the articles written on this subject only cover one or two aspects of what is revealing itself to be an absolute onion of layers and players, all contributing to a still somewhat vague end. Who did/knew what, and when? What is their end game? What is it, specifically, that the players in this vast drama are seeking to achieve and sustain?

Is it to increase and cement the power and wealth of one nation, or a hoped for federation that these acts were perpetrated? Or was it in the interest of one smaller group, sect, or movement within a global power? Or is it corporate interest (in the case of Russia, one in the same) of multinational banks and oil companies? Could it be just the vision of one man pursuing global dominion and a grand place in history? Are we to lay all the blame at the feet of Trump and Putin, or are they just the current agents of a movement within the institutions they represent, and thus just the respective heads of much larger snakes? Is it a cabal?...a nest of vipers? Or are they (Trump and Putin) the only two snakes hiding in the grass; acting for their own selfish ends? Perhaps there is only one snake?.... Perhaps we are, in our ignorance and suspicion, seeing more shadows than need be? Or, perhaps the stakes are even greater than we think... Whomever all contributed to subvert the American election did so for very specific reasons, and will do very specific things with their gained result.

I will attempt herein to compile a brief overview of the evidence and information currently available to the public. I will stick only to referenced sources, and leave my extrapolations, suspicions, or conclusions to a minimum at the end in an effort to let the evidence speak for itself...which I feel it does quite convincingly and intuitively.

Despite Trump's insistence that he didn't have any dealings with Russia or Putin, there is documented evidence of Trump's (his business, and his family) connections to Russia beginning in the late 80's, and increasing steadily over time. Despite his claim to have no relationship with Putin, it is well documented in his own tweets and (often overtly fawning) public statements over the years. Donald Trump Jr, specifically, has a rich and documented history in the country promoting various Trump business interests there. The Steele dossier claims that Trump has been developed as a Russian asset for the last 4-5 years, and at minimum, the documented reality of Trump in Russia during this time can be taken as proof of the opportunity for the FSB to compile sufficient material for leverage or blackmail purposes. Here is a link to a well researched and referenced 37 page PDF file that details Trump, his children, and some of his closest associates' ties in Russia and/or with Putin over the years: http://media.wix.com/ugd/61e09d_d6d1097337e54b2cb58590b8554b7886.pdf

So we know that Trump has certainly at least had the time and opportunity to be compromised in some way by Putin. It has been noted everywhere how curious Trump's absolute refusal to speak ill of Russia or Putin is. While he will, and has been, quick to attack or malign other foreign leaders, American statesmen, judges, companies, and citizens, he remains strangely obstinate in his refusal to condemn or even perceptively slight Russia and its leader. This is an aberration in his well documented character, and as such deserves further scrutiny. But let's table that for now and allow more of the facts to speak or themselves...

To get at the heart of the Russian ability to compromise our election, we need to go all the way back to Edward Snowden. Here I will link to an exhaustively researched article by Greg Olear that covers in great detail the motivations and maneuverings that made the usurping of our election possible: http://www.theweeklings.com/golear/2017/01/24/dah-donald-russian-blood-money-and-the-fbis-case-against-trump/

The article linked above is an ABSOLUTE must read for this topic, as it details and explains the otherwise seeming contradictions in the FBI and James Comey's approach.

Also, a follow up from the same journalist here: http://www.theweeklings.com/golear/2017/02/10/moscow-on-the-potomac-february-is-going-according-to-putins-plan/

Note that both articles were published well before the developments of the last several days, in which law enforcement sources have begun to publicly validate some of the Steele dossier, lending credit to the document as a whole....

Now, is this the extent of Putin's play? Is his geopolitical aim simply more money and oil, or does he have an even grander vision?

The answer, frighteningly, is that this is just the visible tip of the iceberg.

Undermining the U.S., having the American President in his pocket, is the most valuable achievement Putin's Russia has ever attained. To truly understand what Putin's global aims are, we have to establish what sort of political theory and political science drive his policies and actions. To do this, we have to understand Alexander Dugin and Vladislav Surkov. Dugin is widely regarded as Putin's top political advisor, and Surkov is his political strategist. In other words, Surkov's methods are being used to achieve the political ambitions of Dugin and Putin.

Dugin is the original architect of 4th and 5th column political theory (For a firsthand description from Dugin, read here: http://www.4pt.su/en/content/4th-political-theory-and-post-liberalism, and additional reading here:http://crookedtimber.org/2015/03/10/who-is-aleksandr-dugin/), and his aim is to establish a new world order centered on a Eurasian culture and economy, with Moscow and Russia at its heart. This man is after nothing short of a dismantling of the entire liberal global order and capitalist marketplace.

Bannon is heavily influenced by Dugin, and it is evident in his own political theories and motivations. For those of you unfamiliar with what these are, read here: http://www.thedailybeast.com/articles/2016/08/22/steve-bannon-trump-s-top-guy-told-me-he-was-a-leninist.html

Surkov's methods of propaganda and social unrest are summed up in this article: https://thinkprogress.org/when-everything-is-a-lie-power-is-the-only-truth-1e641751d150#.kt9mbc96h

Here is an excerpt:

His aim is to undermine peoples’ perceptions of the world, so they never know what is really happening.
Surkov turned Russian politics into a bewildering, constantly changing piece of theater. He sponsored all kinds of groups, from neo-Nazi skinheads to liberal human rights groups. He even backed parties that were opposed to President Putin.
But the key thing was, that Surkov then let it be known that this was what he was doing, which meant that no one was sure what was real or fake. As one journalist put it: “It is a strategy of power that keeps any opposition constantly confused.”
A ceaseless shape-shifting that is unstoppable because it is undefinable. It is exactly what Surkov is alleged to have done in the Ukraine this year. In typical fashion, as the war began, Surkov published a short story about something he called non-linear war. A war where you never know what the enemy are really up to, or even who they are. The underlying aim, Surkov says, is not to win the war, but to use the conflict to create a constant state of destabilized perception, in order to manage and control.

Bannon and Trump deployed that strategy with aplomb throughout the primary. Because of the constant media focus on his campaign, Trump was able to bombard the airwaves with an unending stream of surreal falsehoods. At the same time, Bannon turned Breitbart News into a Trump Party organ and used it to disseminate further confusion. Independent of Trump and Bannon, a number of other fake news sites — an improbable number of which happened to be headquartered in Macedonia — inundated social media with inaccurate information. There is some evidence to suggest that Surkov’s employer contributed to the process as well, using the website Wikileaks as a conduit.

Many of the stories promulgated by Trump, Bannon, and their allies — such as Trump’s claim that Sen. Ted Cruz’s father was somehow involved in the Kennedy assassination — were obviously false and easily debunked. But the sheer volume of these stories had their intended effect. When fake news becomes omnipresent, all news becomes suspect. Everything starts to look like a lie.
The relentless downpour of inaccurate or useless information can make people lose trust in even their own minds. It happened to Washington Post reporter Ben Terris during the election.

In March, Terris reported that he had seen Corey Lewandowski, then Trump’s campaign manager, physically attack journalist Michelle Fields. The campaign lied about the incident and said nothing had happened. After days of being told his report had been wrong, Terris began to doubt what he had seen. Even when video was uncovered corroborating Terris’ report, the Trump campaign evaded the issue.
“Trump gaslighted me,” Fields later told Terris for an article about the incident. “I worry now that he’s gaslighting the country.”

In a world where nothing is true, the only real choice available to voters is between competing fictions. Trump offered a particularly compelling set of fictions, but he also found various ways to telegraph that he knew what he was doing. Through irony, evasion, self-contradiction, and obviously ridiculous claims, he let his supporters in on the joke. If everything is a lie, then the man who makes his lies obvious is practicing a peculiar form of honesty.

------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Taken in sum, it is clear that we have a president beholden unto Russia, and his chief adviser/strategist who is directly influenced by Dugin's vision of a racist and nationalistic global cabal, and is employing Surkov's methods of achieving it. This is much larger than just this election, folks. We are already waist deep in WWIII. The nationalistic fascism sweeping across western democracies are the proxy-battles of this new evolution of warfare. Russia is already many years and several invasions ahead of the rest of us even realizing we are already at war. It is time to wake up! We have to throw off our oppressors here before we can hope to stem the tide of the war on the international stage. America is the linchpin to this global coup... If we fall, so will the rest of the West. However, if we can prevail against this global fascism and its domestic deplorables, then we may yet hold the light for the rest of the West and Europe to follow.

A war in the 21st century need not be fought on the battlefield, when it can be fought in the minds of the masses. The movements of armies, munitions, and media are but the weapons of perception on this new battlefield.

We are already at war, My Friends... The question is: Will we return fire before it is too late?









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Reply Overview of the Trump/Russia collusion and timeline PLEASE READ! (Original post)
IamFortunesFool Feb 2017 OP
triron Feb 2017 #1
sfwriter Feb 2017 #2
IamFortunesFool Feb 2017 #3
Cracklin Charlie Feb 2017 #4
IamFortunesFool Feb 2017 #6
Cracklin Charlie Feb 2017 #9
brush Feb 2017 #23
GliderGuider Feb 2017 #24
brush Feb 2017 #28
lutherj Feb 2017 #46
IamFortunesFool Feb 2017 #52
lutherj Feb 2017 #78
IamFortunesFool Feb 2017 #25
Amaryllis Feb 2017 #51
IamFortunesFool Feb 2017 #54
Amaryllis Feb 2017 #57
brush Feb 2017 #72
Norbert9 Feb 2017 #70
brush Feb 2017 #73
Norbert9 Feb 2017 #76
Norbert9 Feb 2017 #69
triron Feb 2017 #85
Turbineguy Feb 2017 #98
dgibby Feb 2017 #106
calimary Feb 2017 #79
IamFortunesFool Feb 2017 #81
mrs_p Feb 2017 #5
IamFortunesFool Feb 2017 #7
Delphinus Feb 2017 #29
brush Feb 2017 #31
IamFortunesFool Feb 2017 #109
GliderGuider Feb 2017 #8
IamFortunesFool Feb 2017 #16
Squinch Feb 2017 #10
Squinch Feb 2017 #11
Squinch Feb 2017 #12
Squinch Feb 2017 #13
Squinch Feb 2017 #14
Squinch Feb 2017 #15
IamFortunesFool Feb 2017 #17
Squinch Feb 2017 #18
IamFortunesFool Feb 2017 #20
AlexSFCA Feb 2017 #63
IamFortunesFool Feb 2017 #67
panader0 Feb 2017 #19
Leghorn21 Feb 2017 #21
IamFortunesFool Feb 2017 #22
Leghorn21 Feb 2017 #43
IamFortunesFool Feb 2017 #45
Leghorn21 Feb 2017 #47
IamFortunesFool Feb 2017 #50
Leghorn21 Feb 2017 #55
IamFortunesFool Feb 2017 #56
GliderGuider Feb 2017 #58
IamFortunesFool Feb 2017 #59
PearliePoo2 Feb 2017 #80
IamFortunesFool Feb 2017 #84
PearliePoo2 Feb 2017 #87
IamFortunesFool Feb 2017 #91
IamFortunesFool Feb 2017 #105
dixiegrrrrl Feb 2017 #26
IamFortunesFool Feb 2017 #27
ailsagirl Feb 2017 #88
dem4decades Feb 2017 #30
notdarkyet Feb 2017 #32
IamFortunesFool Feb 2017 #33
AlexSFCA Feb 2017 #61
MedusaX Feb 2017 #34
IamFortunesFool Feb 2017 #35
Kimchijeon Feb 2017 #60
gopiscrap Feb 2017 #120
Ligyron Feb 2017 #36
BadgerMom Feb 2017 #37
pangaia Feb 2017 #38
IamFortunesFool Feb 2017 #39
pangaia Feb 2017 #40
IamFortunesFool Feb 2017 #41
butdiduvote Feb 2017 #42
IamFortunesFool Feb 2017 #44
AlexSFCA Feb 2017 #62
IamFortunesFool Feb 2017 #65
AlexSFCA Feb 2017 #48
IamFortunesFool Feb 2017 #49
AlexSFCA Feb 2017 #66
Norbert9 Feb 2017 #71
sagetea Feb 2017 #53
Kimchijeon Feb 2017 #64
flying rabbit Feb 2017 #68
spanone Feb 2017 #74
ck4829 Feb 2017 #75
snacker Feb 2017 #77
Raster Feb 2017 #82
AlexSFCA Feb 2017 #92
Raster Feb 2017 #93
DittoTheCat2 Feb 2017 #83
IamFortunesFool Feb 2017 #90
GliderGuider Feb 2017 #95
The Velveteen Ocelot Feb 2017 #86
Leghorn21 Feb 2017 #89
certainot Feb 2017 #94
spanone Feb 2017 #96
OldRedneck Feb 2017 #97
IamFortunesFool Feb 2017 #100
ProudProgressiveNow Feb 2017 #99
IamFortunesFool Feb 2017 #101
mopinko Feb 2017 #102
Lochloosa Feb 2017 #103
IamFortunesFool Feb 2017 #104
Achilleaze Feb 2017 #107
Frogg Feb 2017 #108
IamFortunesFool Feb 2017 #110
Hekate Feb 2017 #111
Rex Feb 2017 #112
IamFortunesFool Feb 2017 #113
Dark n Stormy Knight Feb 2017 #114
IamFortunesFool Feb 2017 #115
Dark n Stormy Knight Feb 2017 #116
IamFortunesFool Feb 2017 #117
Dark n Stormy Knight Feb 2017 #118
IamFortunesFool Feb 2017 #119

Response to IamFortunesFool (Original post)

Sat Feb 11, 2017, 06:43 PM

1. I am reading "Winter is coming"

by G. kasparov. I will see how it dovetails with what you present here.

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Response to IamFortunesFool (Original post)


Response to sfwriter (Reply #2)

Sat Feb 11, 2017, 06:54 PM

3. It is a natural and intuitive evolution of warfare...

...or of any dominant pursuit; to obtain maximum control with minimal effort. Military success is bolstered by efficiency. What could be more efficient than illusions and posturing to perpetrate massive gains?

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Response to IamFortunesFool (Original post)

Sat Feb 11, 2017, 07:06 PM

4. Kick

Can't read now

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Response to Cracklin Charlie (Reply #4)

Sat Feb 11, 2017, 07:10 PM

6. I realize my post is long...

Last edited Sat Feb 11, 2017, 10:16 PM - Edit history (1)

and the links contained within it for additional sourced material make the full read of what I've posted quite an investment of time. But please do read it all. The stakes could not be higher, and it is incumbent on us all to be educated as to what we are up against.

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Response to IamFortunesFool (Reply #6)

Sat Feb 11, 2017, 07:20 PM

9. I will.

I am in a truck on a bumpy Indiana highway. Also connection issues.

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Response to IamFortunesFool (Reply #6)

Sat Feb 11, 2017, 08:12 PM

23. I hope to God it's true about Comey, and too bad his reason for the letter was job security...

especially in light of what he knew about trump.

And he had to know the letter would torpedo Clinton.

What do you say about that as I'm still not 100% sure about Comey?

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Response to brush (Reply #23)

Sat Feb 11, 2017, 08:24 PM

24. My jury is somewhat out on him, however

 

The Glomar explanation makes a lot of sense to me. If it's true, it must have killed him to have to burn Clinton, in the interest of winning the larger and much more dangerous game that's afoot. If that investigation got shut down the world would be in a lot of hurt that would take a long time to heal.

Comey's actions in standing with Ashcroft against Gonzales and Card in the 2004 hospital room showdown make him feel like a white hat to me.

https://arstechnica.com/tech-policy/2013/07/what-the-ashcroft-hospital-showdown-on-nsa-spying-was-all-about/

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Response to GliderGuider (Reply #24)

Sat Feb 11, 2017, 08:43 PM

28. I remember that as I'd followed Comey's career since I worked for the NY Law Journal in the early...

2000s. He came and spoke to our staff when he was US Attorney for the Eastern District.

I thought he was a straight shooter then and the hospital room confrontation with Gonzales and Card bolstered my opinion of him.

Then came the July press conference and subsequently the October letter, both which shattered his good guy image for me.

There was also the post-election briefing of Congress persons from which several reps emerged fuming with smoke coming from their ears as they were so upset. They couldn't share it because he made sure the info was classified but it had to be very damming of trump for them to react so strongly. It seem to me at the time that Comey was rubbing their faces in info that would have sunk trump — almost a "na-na-na-na-na see what I did" kind of thing.

I hope I'm wrong and there is still some hope for him.

I'm keeping my fingers crossed.

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Response to GliderGuider (Reply #24)

Sat Feb 11, 2017, 10:52 PM

46. Comey released information, in the week before the election, that the FBI had discovered

new and possibly incriminating emails sent by Hilary Clinton. This turned out to be mere innuendo, and there was no pressure for him to release this information. I don't see any Glomar response here. There was nothing to respond to. It appears to me a blatant move on the part of Comey to throw the election. A few days earlier Giuliani gloated that something big was about to come out. How was Comey cornered into burning Clinton? "The Russians have infiltrated Trump's campaign," says the head of the FBI, "therefore we have to sabotage his political opponent who would probably otherwise win!" I don't see the logic here.

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Response to lutherj (Reply #46)

Sat Feb 11, 2017, 11:54 PM

52. Please read the attached article

The timeline of the emails being discovered on Weiners computer, as well as the FBI's response and a detailed description of Comey's supposed incentives to action are detailed in this article:

http://www.theweeklings.com/golear/2017/01/24/dah-donald-russian-blood-money-and-the-fbis-case-against-trump/

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Response to IamFortunesFool (Reply #52)

Sun Feb 12, 2017, 12:16 PM

78. Interesting read. It makes more sense to me, although I can't help wondering why Trump

didn't name a new FBI Director.

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Response to brush (Reply #23)

Sat Feb 11, 2017, 08:28 PM

25. The assessment of Comey's actions and intentions in that article is hugely compelling

And I think there is good reason to hope that Greg is correct. At the time that Comey's now infamous letter to congress was released, he (Comey) may have still been grappling with all this and still assimilating information. He may not have known the extent of the breach, and may have assumed, like the rest of us, that Clinton would cruise to victory regardless of his actions. Conversely, he may have been fully aware of what he was doing to Clinton, but out of his own altruistic view of his responsibilities, chosen to follow "procedure" anyway. It may be that he saw the election results as secondary to the realization that this country is unknowingly at war, and considered his duty to safeguard our democracy as paramount to any implications his actions would have on the election. If indeed the theory about Comey and the FBI is correct, then this is the most important law enforcement case of all time, and getting it right before making a move would indeed be more important than the temporary results of the election. The Russian infiltration of the West is so grave, that his calculus may be much broader than the narrow view of the immediacy of this latest election.

I suppose we'll see... The more time that passes, the more skeptical I become. If there is this much information available to the public, one can only imagine the cascading deluge of information the intelligence agencies and law enforcement communities must be corroborating and sourcing. However, as we the people know enough to paint the rough picture I described above, one would think those in the know must be near to sewing the matter up and making their move. I feel if we don't see action on this in the next few weeks, it will be a sign that the investigation is somehow stalled or compromised, and it will be torches and pitchforks time if we hope to prevail.

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Response to IamFortunesFool (Reply #25)

Sat Feb 11, 2017, 11:52 PM

51. See this: Senator Wyden is Hell-bent on Getting Out the Truth About Trump and Russia (Mother Jones)

http://www.democraticunderground.com/1016177278
Wyden is on Senate Intelligence Committee.

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Response to Amaryllis (Reply #51)

Sat Feb 11, 2017, 11:59 PM

54. Yes...

Last edited Sun Feb 12, 2017, 12:56 AM - Edit history (1)

It will take officials like him to drag the rest of congress into a willingness to openly address these matters. I honestly think many of our leaders in Washington who are aware of this may as yet be too embarrassed for our country to know what to do or feel emboldened to speak out. Kinda like if you came home from school and caught your mom in bed with somebody that wasn't your dad...would you be too ashamed and embarrassed to tell your father?

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Response to IamFortunesFool (Reply #54)

Sun Feb 12, 2017, 01:30 AM

57. So I know a number of congress folks have been wanting this to come out but couldnt talk about it.

Is the info we are getting now from leaks, or ??? Sounds like some people in the intelligence agencies are talking; thoughts on if they are allowed to talk about it or are leaking, or what? Doesn't make sense that they would be talking and people like Wyden, Waters, etc. are still not able to.

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Response to Amaryllis (Reply #57)

Sun Feb 12, 2017, 10:32 AM

72. There is that. I understand Comey made the info classified in the briefing he gave to the lawmakers.

Which is why they were so angry when they emerged from the briefing.

So, yeah. There's some leaking going on.

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Response to IamFortunesFool (Reply #25)

Sun Feb 12, 2017, 09:45 AM

70. A few gut feelings I have

 

1. Comey had to have realized the letter would sink Clinton given the timing.

2. Comey ought to have been up to speed on the Trump investigation prior to the letter. If not, much shame on him.

3. I feel, very sadly, nothing will be done. This is largely based on my post about Sessions right below. I hope decision makers aren't rationalizing moving forward with the thought that some portion of the country did vote for him. Now exactly what size portion is a different yet equally lengthy discourse.

Thanks for assembling a lot of the pieces here. Most of this I have come across the past few months in various forms. This is a good way to bring it all together. Ironic how much Trump may have benefited from Snowden.

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Response to Norbert9 (Reply #70)

Sun Feb 12, 2017, 10:36 AM

73. trump got 42% of the 50% of people who voted, which equals what, about 24% of the population

Considering that, this certainly shouldn't be allowed to stand.

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Response to brush (Reply #73)

Sun Feb 12, 2017, 11:14 AM

76. Exactly. I posted recently how Sessions had to vote for Devos before he himself could be confirmed

 

There is no mandate. A quarter of the country voted for drumpf. Slightly more than a quarter voted against him. Almost half the country didn't vote.

Until half the nation wakes up, it continues.

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Response to brush (Reply #23)

Sun Feb 12, 2017, 09:33 AM

69. According to update article cited from The Weeklings, Sessions can squash it all!

 

http://www.theweeklings.com/golear/2017/02/10/moscow-on-the-potomac-february-is-going-according-to-putins-plan/

Heatstreet’s Louise Mensch—who has been prescient on the Trump/Russia ties for months now—reports that Page was recommended to the Trump team by none other than Jeff Sessions, the newly-minted Attorney General. In his new role, Sessions has the ability to release the Russian hacker Ygeveny Nikulin, now in custody in Prague, and to scuttle any Russia/Trump investigation. His racist background and staunch Trumpist views, in line with Putin’s own, will furthermore serve to direct popular attention away from Russian influence.


How disheartening. Can't anything be done? It's like it doesn't matter what Comey does now.

I think the timeline above is very much near to the truth. Will we ever know for sure?

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Response to Norbert9 (Reply #69)

Sun Feb 12, 2017, 01:54 PM

85. That is my fear as well.

That's exactly why Sessions was nominated in the first place I believe.

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Response to Norbert9 (Reply #69)

Sun Feb 12, 2017, 09:11 PM

98. Hopefully this thing is moving faster

than Sessions. Sessions may need to save his own skin.

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Response to Norbert9 (Reply #69)

Mon Feb 13, 2017, 03:14 PM

106. This is THE reason

Trump wanted Sessions(who's up to his eyebrows in this Russian mess) as AG.

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Response to IamFortunesFool (Reply #6)

Sun Feb 12, 2017, 01:11 PM

79. I'm printing out a copy of it to go through at my leisure.

Don't care that it's long. I just want the chance to study it.

THANK YOU for putting all this together with such thought and meticulous detail.

"...it is incumbent on us all to be educated as to what we are up against."

Yep! Forewarned is forearmed! The more you know, the less likely you are to get snookered. Because, remember, the bottom line for trump and all his little flying/lying monkeys is - he's a fucking SALESMAN. And snake oil IS what he sells. Flash 'n' trash. Lying through his teeth and a whole lot of Twitter trauma. He's P.T. Barnum.

And as my brilliant and astute husband pointed out, "you can't spell P.T. Barnum without trump."

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Response to calimary (Reply #79)

Sun Feb 12, 2017, 01:34 PM

81. Hahahaha!...Can't spell P.T. Barnum without Trump!... Priceless!

Thank you for taking the time to read it all! I'm pleased to see how receptive and responsive everybody has been. This is a tough subject, and the immense scale of it all can be overwhelming to even those prepared to see it as it is.

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Response to IamFortunesFool (Original post)

Sat Feb 11, 2017, 07:08 PM

5. The story is currently

In bits and pieces all over. It's hard to wrap my head around it.

There is this Dugin/Putin World War III/resource war aspect and then all the Trump and Kushner corruption Adam Khan and Scott Dworken are reporting.

Maybe it is too messy to get to the truth (at least in my head). This much I believe, though, the corruption goes all the way to the very top and only we at the bottom will do anything about it.

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Response to mrs_p (Reply #5)

Sat Feb 11, 2017, 07:14 PM

7. The expanse and breadth of the information is certainly daunting...

The matrix of the minutiae of specific players involvement (Trump, Putin, Bannon, Dugin, Flynn, Kushner, etc..) is easy to get lost in, especially since we only have bits and pieces of this information available to us as the public. However important those details are to how we will institutionally remove these cancers should not detract us from seeing the larger picture and pursuing the larger goal of fighting this battle against a global fascism.

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Response to IamFortunesFool (Reply #7)

Sat Feb 11, 2017, 08:44 PM

29. Thank you.

I will read through this tomorrow with a clear head.

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Response to IamFortunesFool (Reply #7)

Sat Feb 11, 2017, 08:52 PM

31. Yes, cancer is just the right word for it.

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Response to brush (Reply #31)

Mon Feb 13, 2017, 10:04 PM

109. Indeed... festering cancer

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Response to IamFortunesFool (Original post)

Sat Feb 11, 2017, 07:18 PM

8. Standing ovation!

 

That is a masterful yet concise summary of the game that is afoot. I think you've hit the nail precisely on the head. I saw Surkov's fingerprints all over the the events of the first ten days or so following the inauguration. As you point out, his techniques were also instrumental during the campaign. Russia has been "setting up the board" to their advantage for over a decade, putting the pieces in position within the USA, so that when an opportunity arose they would immediately be able to exploit it. Trump's candidacy was their opportunity.

Whether the free world gets out of this with just bumps and bruises, or the outcome is far worse (read that as the dismemberment and death of the Republic and a complete re-organization of the world's power structure) probably depends in large measure on how intact or penetrated the FBI is. If a functional un-subverted group can be found within the Bureau, we might be able to hope for a speedy resolution with minimal damage through the arrest of the nest of vipers. But if the Bureau is already too strategically compromised, and Jeff Sessions stands with them, I fear for your Republic. Does any other organization besides the FBI has the arrest powers required for a situation like this? Could the Secret Service do it?

Again, congratulations on a first class job of weaving the fuller story. Nice work. Colour me impressed!

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Response to GliderGuider (Reply #8)

Sat Feb 11, 2017, 07:43 PM

16. The question of agency or authority to prosecute this vast swamp is tricky...

...and will depend of the bilateral support of both political parties. My thinking is that the Republicans will be long in their support of Trump, albeit with a great deal of distaste; they simply won't want to give up any of their power. The stakes of this game are much larger than either party, though, and I remain hopeful that once more of the story becomes public, we will rally behind each other as fellow countrymen. That said, if done within the crumbling confines of our current democracy, the FBI would have the authority to formally charge the players involved, all the way to the POTUS. However, with each passing moment, the new administration is cementing and entrenching its power, and eliminating dissenting voices. I feel like there is likely an event horizon of opportunity for our law enforcement agencies to openly pursue and prosecute this. Eventually, the tendency to acquiesce to power will take hold, and we will have to count on a hunted and secret alliance within our law enforcement agencies to continue the investigation outside of the orders of the administration.

Thanks for the compliment. I didn't do much but make some commentary, pose some questions, and link to the much better and studious work of real journalist or websites. I will, however, take your compliment for making the effort to tie all the various threads together into one theory that we can (AND MUST!) discuss here and elsewhere. My only real intent here is to keep raising awareness and beating the drum to hopefully wake some others up to join the resistance in full.

Glad you're here to lend your voice and support, though, as you're one of very few people on here that is fully clued in to what is going down.

Cheers!

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Response to IamFortunesFool (Original post)

Sat Feb 11, 2017, 07:38 PM

10. Kick

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Response to IamFortunesFool (Original post)

Sat Feb 11, 2017, 07:39 PM

11. Kick

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Response to IamFortunesFool (Original post)

Sat Feb 11, 2017, 07:39 PM

12. Kick

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Response to IamFortunesFool (Original post)

Sat Feb 11, 2017, 07:39 PM

13. Kick

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Response to IamFortunesFool (Original post)

Sat Feb 11, 2017, 07:39 PM

14. Kick

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Response to IamFortunesFool (Original post)

Sat Feb 11, 2017, 07:42 PM

15. This is a great post. I have been following this closely and while I know

HOW they are going about doing it, I don't know WHY. I have not been able to figure out what the end game was.

This information about Putin's goals and his top advisors' philosophies is new to me, and it answers my questions.

What a horrible, scary man.

Thank you for this information.

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Response to Squinch (Reply #15)

Sat Feb 11, 2017, 07:45 PM

17. El gusto es mio!

Please spread the word... This is THE test of our time.

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Response to IamFortunesFool (Reply #17)

Sat Feb 11, 2017, 07:48 PM

18. Muchas gracias. Did you see this OP:

http://www.democraticunderground.com/1016177538

It's an example of exactly what you are talking about.

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Response to Squinch (Reply #18)

Sat Feb 11, 2017, 07:58 PM

20. That is a perfect exhibit of evidence for Surkov's methods

It has been said elsewhere here that it is likely that Russia has been dumping money into the alt-right and conservative news world for a LONG time. Citizens United paved the way for it in our politics.

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Response to Squinch (Reply #15)

Sun Feb 12, 2017, 03:11 AM

63. Why?

Putin's autoritarian regime is under threat from the current neoliberal global order. The only way he can contine to remain in power as if he changes the world order where Eurasia headed by Russia is the main dominant culture. He has grand plans for expansion - Ukraine is just the beginning, look up Dugin's vision.

To achieve his goals, he needs to fundamentally weaken USA, EU, NATO and UN. He's been doing it for two decades and finally started collecting fruits of his labor. It was the new digital world of social media that accelerated his game. And that is why we are seeing the changes so rapidly.

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Response to AlexSFCA (Reply #63)

Sun Feb 12, 2017, 03:20 AM

67. I am so glad you're here to lend your voice to this topic

I'm in Tennessee and about to fall out for the night, and it's good to know that steady hands in California are at the wheel whilst I slumber.

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Response to IamFortunesFool (Original post)

Sat Feb 11, 2017, 07:57 PM

19. Great post, recommended

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Response to IamFortunesFool (Original post)

Sat Feb 11, 2017, 08:01 PM

21. No doubt you've been told this before, but sorry, you are NObody's fool!! SO many thanks for

taking the time to get all these pieces and glops and bitty morsels of info collected in one spot!! I can *almost* comprehend what's going on here, and again thank you for the great amount of effort you have expended writing this post!


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Response to Leghorn21 (Reply #21)

Sat Feb 11, 2017, 08:10 PM

22. Ha! I assure you I am quite the fool

Last edited Sun Feb 12, 2017, 12:05 AM - Edit history (1)

There is so much more to say on this topic...so many idiosyncrasies, evidences, and nuance. But I felt it was most important to lay out the basic premise of the vision and save the detailed discussion of various elements for these sub-threads, as the OP and linked reading material is already long enough to deter and tax the attention of many "readers".

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Response to IamFortunesFool (Reply #22)

Sat Feb 11, 2017, 10:46 PM

43. NotaFool: have been furiously trying to follow what's going on in FL via twitter acct of

Louise Mensch all afternoon - have you checked her acct lately? Her tweets don't seem particularly chronological, have to keep loading older posts to get what she's had to say today - weird - but if you click this right here (I know you're mighty busy tonight!!), it should take you to brand new rant about how the NYT mucked up BADly w/story that FBI couldn't find trump/Russia connection in Oct.:

https://mobile.twitter.com/LouiseMensch?p=s

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Response to Leghorn21 (Reply #43)

Sat Feb 11, 2017, 10:50 PM

45. Looking into it now...

Thank you for the heads up!!!!

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Response to IamFortunesFool (Reply #45)

Sat Feb 11, 2017, 10:55 PM

47. Thanks, it just feels like some shit's going down today - here are 3 of her posts from 8

hours ago, will paste here and leave you be!!



Louise Mensch
@LouiseMensch
8h
Allow me to be very explicit. Bannon leaks the truth on Flynn sanctions lies last night. Only AFTER JEFF SESSIONS IS CONFIRMED AS AG.
View details ·

Louise Mensch
@LouiseMensch
8h
So MKATE stops in Zurich. FSB plane just there. Flies to Florida. Putin's Bagman #Rybolovev golfs with Trump and Flynn #MoscowMike pic.twitter.com/BPGfxu2KRp
View photo ·

Louise Mensch
@LouiseMensch
8h
And there it is folks MKATE takes bagman of Russia Rybolovev to golf with Trump and Flynn @secretservice Agni pic.twitter.com/0jj0IUHMPx
View photo ·


- - - - OKAY, one last set of tweets from a guy who seems to have just painted the whole picture of today, I swear I'm done:

Scott Linnen
@ScottLinnen
5h

How nice of Dimitry Rybolovev's MKATE to land at West Palm Beach in time to play the back nine with the Japanese Prime Minister.
View details ·

Scott Linnen
@ScottLinnen

A money-laundering Russian billionaire, a president, the future Secretary of Commerce & a Japanese Prime Minister walk into a clubhouse bar


@donnajayess
4h
@ScottLinnen I don't think I like the way this "joke" ends...
View conversation ·

Scott Linnen
@ScottLinnen
4h

@donnajayess Meanwhile, the WH press corps sits huddled in a room with blacked-out windows like it's the Gulag Mar-A-Lago. Whee.

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Response to Leghorn21 (Reply #47)

Sat Feb 11, 2017, 11:46 PM

50. Yes, there is a lot of jockeying and infighting going on in the administration tonight

as they feel the noose of public knowledge tightening. With each new leak of info, corroborative account, or media revelation, the stakes are raised internally for who will be sacrificed to the masses so that their organism of treason may continue to infect our democracy and institutions. Flynn (who seems horribly inept) seems to be the first Patsy, and it looks like Bannon is serving him up on a platter for us; likely hoping the ensuing media circus will continue to obfuscate the more integral gears that are working behind the scenes. They are buying time and making public sacrifices while their power is cemented and their plan comes to fruition. My guess would be that Flynn was set up to be this initial fall-guy from the outset by Bannon... After Trump, he's the most blatantly stupid of the bunch, so I can see how he could have been easily led to the slaughter by the dark arts of Bannon.

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Response to IamFortunesFool (Reply #50)

Sun Feb 12, 2017, 12:44 AM

55. Spasiba, mon ami! You have worked so hard today - - call it a night, wouldja, we'll need you again

tomorrow!

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Response to Leghorn21 (Reply #55)

Sun Feb 12, 2017, 12:58 AM

56. No worries... I'll be here

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Response to IamFortunesFool (Reply #56)

Sun Feb 12, 2017, 01:49 AM

58. Nice work today. Real nice work.

 

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Response to GliderGuider (Reply #58)

Sun Feb 12, 2017, 01:51 AM

59. I got preoccupied with it and missed SNL...

D'oh!

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Response to IamFortunesFool (Reply #50)

Sun Feb 12, 2017, 01:28 PM

80. I'm kind of dense here and overwhelmed with your info, but could you please explain

why Bannon would serve Flynn up for sacrifice? Is it because Flynn is in his (Bannon's) way?
Does Bannon want 45 all to himself and Flynn is competition? Thanks!
Man...what a nest of treasonous vipers!
Tip of the hat for all your terrific work!

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Response to PearliePoo2 (Reply #80)

Sun Feb 12, 2017, 01:50 PM

84. There has been enough of this information in the public domain for long enough

that I believe Bannon would have seen the need to have a "Patsy" for if/when the curtain began to drop more. I don't believe Flynn would have made those calls of his own private volition and without the sanction of Bannon and Trump. So there are two scenarios: One is that Flynn acted unilaterally of his own accord without consulting Trump/Bannon, and the second is that they asked or allowed him to go through with it, despite the obvious insecurity of the communications with foreign diplomats. So either Flynn is enormously stupid (granted, I'm not discounting that possibility as he's proven to be a total ignoramus many times), or Bannon set him up to be a fall guy. I don't believe Bannon would be foolish enough to let Flynn communicate with Russia like that unless he intended to compromise him for convenience later if the public or congress/law enforcement turned up the heat.

A possible third scenario is that Flynn was given the go ahead to let Russia know that they'd lift the sanctions, and out of his own ineptness used the wrong means of communication, thereby exposing the cabal more than intended. However, if this were the case, I think we'd have seen them turn on him already. Instead, the administration is avoiding the issue and Flynn is still at his post. My sense is that they want to wait until the fury builds to an undeniable pitch to offer him up as an appeasement. Bannon is in this for his own reasons; reasons he's been working to promote for many, many years. He is prepared to sacrifice anything and everything to achieve his desired end.

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Response to IamFortunesFool (Reply #84)

Sun Feb 12, 2017, 02:12 PM

87. I have been listening to Malcolm Nance on A M Joy's weekend show and he said

that Flynn should KNOW that his calls would be eavesdropped on because of the line of intelligence work he was in. Nance said it was called something like, "Monitor Your Own" (?) whenever there are communications like that.
Is Flynn so unstable or stupid that he would forget that? Nance said that there is a transcript also. Not one but two, because the Russians have their own transcript of those calls also. Do you think those transcripts will ever see the light of day as far as the public goes?
I don't have a Twitter account but I've been reading Malcolm Nance and David Corn's tweets. Wow!
What do you think of the work those guys are doing?

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Response to PearliePoo2 (Reply #87)

Sun Feb 12, 2017, 04:31 PM

91. They are both fantastic journalist and their work has been instrumental in helping to uncover

many aspects of this convoluted web.

Yes, I absolutely believe the transcripts will come out. I actually think that they are likely a planned evidence that will be used to sow further chaos and division. Think of it like this: Say they leak tomorrow... The effect will be to generate even more hostility and unrest directed towards the administration; thus furthering the ends of the cabal by further inflaming the social dumpster fire. If we assume that Bannon is and has been prepared to throw Flynn under the bus, then the net loss for the administration is less than zero... For by further irritating the left, it will further galvanize support from the right as Trump supporters dismiss Flynn as the singular villain and rally around their leader in a predictable response to the animus from the left. Conversely, if the administration is able to entrench itself enough to be immune to the implications of the transcripts, then their "leaked" release will only serve to agitate the left even further, and therefore the right, as well, by benefit of their instinctual response to the left. Either way you slice it, the release of the transcripts will create more chaos and division, so they are a useful tool for an insulated Bannon.

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Response to IamFortunesFool (Reply #91)

Mon Feb 13, 2017, 02:18 PM

105. In the news today, evidence of exactly what I said above yesterday...

From The Wall Street Journal today:

"National Security Adviser Mike Flynn may be in danger of losing his job, according to a Wall Street Journal report. The administration is reportedly weighing whether to dismiss Flynn over his controversial contacts with Russian officials and the publicity surrounding it. Flynn has allegedly apologized to President Trump and Vice President Mike Pence, who are said to have disagreed over the appropriate response to the situation. “He’s apologized to everyone,” an official told the Journal. On Dec. 29, Flynn spoke by phone with Russian Ambassador Sergey Kislyak and initially denied that he discussed new sanctions imposed by the Obama administration. Flynn later admitted that the conversation included mention of the sanctions. Transcripts of his phone calls corroborate that Flynn and Kislyak indeed discussed the matter. It reportedly also became clear that Flynn has had more than one phone call on the issue, despite the White House initially denying those claims. Trump has told close advisers that although the controversy is “unwelcome,” he is going to “look into” the matter further before making a decision. Trump has also said he wants to “keep moving forward” with Flynn. Trump adviser Steve Bannon reportedly had dinner with Flynn over the weekend and has decided to keep him in his current post but is said to “be ready” to fire him if it becomes necessary."

https://www.wsj.com/articles/democrats-press-for-probe-of-security-advisers-talks-with-russians-1486922486

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Response to IamFortunesFool (Original post)

Sat Feb 11, 2017, 08:29 PM

26. Fantastic post!!!!!!

Back in the day, DU members used to post like this often, incredible amounts of sourced information about very important issues.
we are all the smarter for it.
Thank you for keeping up the tradition .

K&R

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Response to dixiegrrrrl (Reply #26)

Sat Feb 11, 2017, 08:32 PM

27. I am fairly new here as far as posting anything, but I'm glad to carry on the tradition

Thank you for taking the time to read it all in full. Spread the word!!!

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Response to IamFortunesFool (Reply #27)

Sun Feb 12, 2017, 02:35 PM

88. I know it's been said before to you but...

WELCOME TO DU!!!

Fantastic post-- thank you!!!

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Response to IamFortunesFool (Original post)

Sat Feb 11, 2017, 08:44 PM

30. Mark and thank you

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Response to IamFortunesFool (Original post)

Sat Feb 11, 2017, 08:53 PM

32. Some of my dystopian thoughts have been that Putin wants America. He wants our food, resources,

Military, nuclear weapons and all the infrastructure to support these goals. This is why I am suspicious about building up our military, ships, planes, nuclear weapons etc. McCain wants to do this because he believes we will soon be at war. It takes time and money to do all that. There are many reasons Putin would want to take us over. From what we know this has been set up for years,Flynn, others at ? FBI?cia.nsa probably goes deep and wide and the willing puppet rump. We got to get them soon. Glad someone is leaking.

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Response to notdarkyet (Reply #32)

Sat Feb 11, 2017, 09:07 PM

33. It's widely known that Russia has been funding the nationalist and alt-right movements across Europe

...for years now, and I would wager that the alt-right/conservative media juggernaut in this country has been partially funded by the Kremlin for years. I would further wager that Russian money has found its way into progressive causes as well...just as Surkov has done in Russia and Europe.

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Response to IamFortunesFool (Reply #33)

Sun Feb 12, 2017, 02:53 AM

61. Breibart and Alex Jones

have clear ties to Kremlin, RT; basically a propaganda arm of pro-putin policies and the new duginist global order. Others had funding from Koch Brothers. But watch how the messaging of right wing personas has suddently changed to isolationism and islamophobia. Koch Brothers support free trade. Competing financials (from Russia) attenuted the message for maximum destruction. And it took off from there on auto-pilot.

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Response to IamFortunesFool (Original post)

Sat Feb 11, 2017, 09:08 PM

34. To be or not to be

Hopefully, the last few weeks have sufficiently lulled 45 & Gang into a false sense of security... emboldening them to freely engage in increasingly risky behavior without fear of repercussion... (like turning off the recording devices during conversation with Putin, etc.) and has allowed the various intelligence agencies to acquire conclusive data needed to connect all the dots.

This would also likely have allowed sufficient time for communication to take place amongst all players involved... thus ensuring that the entire tumor is located/identified before the extraction procedure takes place.

Perhaps 45 is truly as Bannon previously described him -- a blunt tool that "doesn't get it" --
as he has been given several "warnings" to diverge from the chosen path
(told not to aggravate intelligence agencies because 'they can get back at you 7 ways from Sunday'; given the dossier addendum...followed by the dossier leak; plus leak after leak of activities which occurred behind closed doors; etc)....
Nevertheless, he has persisted.

So,It is hard to say the degree to which 45 may or may not have plausible deniability as to the master plan... but that does not excuse him from being held accountable for his involvement.

If such optimism is unfounded, and it turns out that there is no large scale extraction planned, then we are likely already beyond the point of no return.

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Response to MedusaX (Reply #34)

Sat Feb 11, 2017, 09:10 PM

35. Yes, that is my fear as well

As stated up thread... If we don't see action on this within the coming weeks, then I fear the die is cast, and it will be torches and pitchforks time.

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Response to MedusaX (Reply #34)

Sun Feb 12, 2017, 01:51 AM

60. 45 is a tool

and he surely "doesn't get it"

I remain optimistic that we'll get through this.

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Response to MedusaX (Reply #34)

Fri Feb 17, 2017, 02:32 AM

120. welcome to DU

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Response to IamFortunesFool (Original post)

Sat Feb 11, 2017, 09:16 PM

36. Thanks for those sources and for tying this altogether in one place.

Some of us have been reading your posts and paying attention. The back and forth between you and Gilder Glider is facinating.

I hope this idea gets more traction around DU as time goes on. But not too much time, because like you said, there is probably only a finite amount of time in which we or our institutions can act.

I think the whole idea scares a lot of people and is something few want to believe. Personally, I don't either but don't see we have much choice. If there's even the slightest possibility that all this is linked and may actually be occuring - however much and for whatever ultimate purpose, it certainly deserves more exposure.

Kick and rec, obviously.

Keep up the good work!

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Response to IamFortunesFool (Original post)

Sat Feb 11, 2017, 09:34 PM

37. K & R

This is a great synopsis of much of the information and sources are solid. Thank you. It is critically important to keep this on the front burner. It's a great weekend read.

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Response to IamFortunesFool (Original post)

Sat Feb 11, 2017, 09:42 PM

38. THANK YOU!! Again !

tell me if I am nuts, or something but.. haven't I read all this before, very recently--including at least a few of the links??

From you?? Gilder Glider ? I've been following you both, so to speak....

The WEEKLINGS articles I KNOW I have read? For sure...




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Response to pangaia (Reply #38)

Sat Feb 11, 2017, 10:06 PM

39. Yes, we (and a few others) have been beating the drum here for a few weeks

The information contained in the OP has been discussed in compartment on various threads that myself and others have posted, but the synthesis of the entire concept and ultimate goal had yet to be compiled in one place. I wrote the OP because there is no way to link all those threads together, and I felt it was imperative to put all the available information in one place for people to find. There are many more articles and resources I've gone through to connect the dots, and many of the aforementioned posts contain other helpful and informative links, as well. So, yes, if you've been paying attention to me, GliderGuider, and AlexSFCA, then you've likely already seen or read much of what I posted. My intent is to continue raising awareness until enough of us are informed for this discussion to move into the real world of action and accountability.

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Response to IamFortunesFool (Reply #39)

Sat Feb 11, 2017, 10:12 PM

40. Yeah and Alex SFCA.. You guys are a treasure..

For that you get TWO HEARTS. :>))))))
I mean, it's the least I can do...







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Response to pangaia (Reply #40)

Sat Feb 11, 2017, 10:15 PM

41. Awww... well, thank you!

I have been humbled and honored to get several hearts from this OP. Thank you all for showing your support! I love you all, too!

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Response to IamFortunesFool (Original post)

Sat Feb 11, 2017, 10:35 PM

42. The question remains...

...how long do we have to wait for the truth to be revealed and the appropriate heads to roll? Another few weeks? Another 20 years? All of this not knowing, including not knowing if any of this will ever amount to anything at all, is killing me.

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Response to butdiduvote (Reply #42)

Sat Feb 11, 2017, 10:48 PM

44. And that is a difficult question, indeed...

As I've stated above, I feel that if we don't see action within the next few weeks (Maybe 5 at most?) then I believe it is incumbent on we the people to resign ourselves to the torches and pitchforks. My greater fear is that we, as a society, are too timid, fearful for our own mortality, and apathetic to actually lay our lives on the line...no matter what the stakes are. We'll see...

And, yes, the anticipation is killing me, too.

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Response to IamFortunesFool (Reply #44)

Sun Feb 12, 2017, 03:02 AM

62. the challenge

is that trump is very aggressive on pro-russia policies. If there is a major jihadist attack, he will use the event to collaborate with russia in the fight against isis which will require lifting sanctions. By that time, with the amount of disinformation, russia will be considered our ally not enemy so the significance of those finding may dimish...

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Response to AlexSFCA (Reply #62)

Sun Feb 12, 2017, 03:16 AM

65. Yes, time is absolutely of the essence

for a great many reasons. The longer this goes on, the more time this administration has to infect our various law enforcement institutions and change the narrative about Russia. The pieces are already in place for us to "partner" with Russia to defeat Islamism... All they need is the spark....

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Response to IamFortunesFool (Original post)

Sat Feb 11, 2017, 11:09 PM

48. outstanding analysis!

Nicey put together! Putin's ambitions are very clear, he follows Dugin's map but his real motivation is to remain in power. He can only do so if he destroys the current neoliberal global order.

Absent NATO, EU and UN, and with Trump in charge; Putin's power will have no limt or mercy.

Make no mistake, WWIII starts with information war but it will turn violent, no doubt. Look at what's been happening in Ukraine.

One thought that's been bothering me is 'war on islam'. Maybe there are people on DU more knowledgable but my sense is that there weren't a lot of radical jihadist terrorist attacks prior to 1999? If that is the case, islamophobia was artificially created with the sole purpose of gaining power and manipulting public opinion?

Once again, as I said before, the upcoming election in France may be the deciding factor on how the future of the world will unfold.

I still don't know what to make of Snowden. Technically, he is a traitor and is on Putin's side; otherwise Putin wouldn't be so kind to him. He is obviously against the current global order. I don't buy his silly claims how he loves US constitution (total BS). Snowden did enormous damage to the world's stability.

Fascistic tendenies in Europe can be explained by the fact that most European countries have historically been monocultural. Immigration was never natural for Europe. However, USA is fundamentally different and that's why I hope that we will succesfully resist fascism. USA invented immigration and diversity.

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Response to AlexSFCA (Reply #48)

Sat Feb 11, 2017, 11:36 PM

49. Hey, Alex!

Last edited Sun Feb 12, 2017, 03:30 AM - Edit history (1)

As usual, you are absolutely correct. While this first stage of the global war is being fought in the hearts and minds of the people, the inevitable result of all those social wedge issues is to turn us against each other in sectarian violence...this has been a long and constant process over the last century that Putin and the current global financial elite are the inheritors of. You are also correct about the "threat" of jihadist terror only becoming a (perceived) pervasive antagonist since the first World Trade Center bombing, but in earnest after 9-11.

The following is a copy/paste from a section of one of my responses to your original OP several weeks age, "The Beginning of the End?"

"I would only add that this global cabal can be further traced back in history to the institutionalization of centralized banking across the western and near east world at the turn of the last century. If you consider the last 100 or so years of geopolitical and economic history within this context, the shadowed hand emerges from behind the veil. Since that time, this global Plutocracy has, with exponentially increasing technological capacity and masterfully designed social theatre, bred us to be increasingly apathetic and tribal as they go about consolidating and entrenching their power.

The first great world war against fascism became war the against Nazis, and then on communism. The Red Threat became the war on drugs, and the war on drugs became the war on terror, and the war on terror has become the war against each other; each one more abstract than the last. They are turning us against ourselves in order to sow the social war and violence needed to enshrine the ascendant police state and finally make an overt seizure of power. And the worst part is that we will beg for it. Just as we happily gave away our rights in the Patriot Act after 9-11, so will we gladly accept totalitarianism disguised as protectionism to save us from the social violence we are being bated into...our genetic tribalism is being exploited against us. "

The amount of attention paid to Islamism over the last decade and a half has had a catalytic effect on both our perception of its pervasiveness, as well as its actual growth and proliferation. The more we've been outraged against them, the more they rage and recruit against us. It is my feeling that the moneyed interests that support a given administration (this applies to any and all regimes over the last 100 years) have been working behind the scenes for many decades to achieve the ends we are now in the midst of. Putin seems to be the head of the snake in our day. I have not referenced it in my OP or other posts, but there is ample evidence that Putin has used his position to personally enrich himself, and is actually worth over double what Bill Gates (commonly held to be the wealthiest person alive) is, making Vladimir Putin the richest man in the world, and therefore an intuitive choice to lead the global financial elite. Here are some links to follow up on...

http://www.businessinsider.com/former-kremlin-banker-putin-is-the-richest-person-in-the-world-until-he-leaves-power-2015-7

http://time.com/money/4641093/vladimir-putin-net-worth/

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/worldviews/wp/2015/02/20/is-vladimir-putin-hiding-a-200-billion-fortune-and-if-so-does-it-matter/?utm_term=.46923f75f9b1

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Response to IamFortunesFool (Reply #49)

Sun Feb 12, 2017, 03:20 AM

66. seems like the world always needs enemy

In a sentence, Putin has figured out how to hack democracies. They can be hacked by following Surkov's method. But someone like google, facebook, etc. should have the power to stop it.

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Response to IamFortunesFool (Reply #49)

Sun Feb 12, 2017, 10:23 AM

71. Namely the Federal Reserve

 

I would only add that this global cabal can be further traced back in history to the institutionalization of centralized banking across the western and near east world at the turn of the last century. If you consider the last 100 or so years of geopolitical and economic history within this context, the shadowed hand emerges from behind the veil.

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Response to IamFortunesFool (Original post)

Sat Feb 11, 2017, 11:55 PM

53. Wow!

Thank you! Welcome the 21st. century indeed...

sage

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Response to IamFortunesFool (Original post)

Sun Feb 12, 2017, 03:15 AM

64. More than ever

I am encouraged to see the reactions and resistance. ..we won't be silenced!

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Response to IamFortunesFool (Original post)

Sun Feb 12, 2017, 07:48 AM

68. K&R

well done.

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Response to IamFortunesFool (Original post)

Sun Feb 12, 2017, 10:38 AM

74. K&R...

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Response to IamFortunesFool (Original post)

Sun Feb 12, 2017, 10:46 AM

75. K&R

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Response to IamFortunesFool (Original post)

Sun Feb 12, 2017, 11:43 AM

77. Excellent read!

Thank you.

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Response to IamFortunesFool (Original post)

Sun Feb 12, 2017, 01:45 PM

82. Excellent, Excellent, EXCELLENT post! There is no doubt that tRump* is a Russian asset...

...The question is: How many persons in the US Government have also reached this conclusion... AND ARE DOING NOTHING???

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Response to Raster (Reply #82)

Sun Feb 12, 2017, 04:36 PM

92. many republicans are ok with that

The issue is that increasing number of republicans, both politicians and voters, are getting on board with the idea that Russia may become our key ally.
As you remember, Trump famously said that USA is not so innocent. He is normalizig Russia's view as an acceptable alternative to the currently accepted neoliberal world order. He is correct that the US is not so innocent and I certainly understand how this argument can be used to forge a partnership with Russia against Islam and 'liberalism'. It's hard for us to claim that we are the norm to be followed after we carried out Vietnam war, Korean war, Iraq war, Libya, etc.

I think one of the issues here on DU is that many people were on board with Sanders' populist and somewhat isolationist views (trade). The whole situation has made me reconsider and reevaluate the importance of globalism and how it's been incredibly effective in preventing WWIII. Clinton always understood it. In Putin/Trump's world globalism=liberalism. It works for populists because it provides simple (deeply flawed) answers to very complex problems.

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Response to AlexSFCA (Reply #92)

Sun Feb 12, 2017, 05:25 PM

93. Excellent point...globalism is happening, like it or not... and to be entirely fair...

...it was Bush 41 that first started to "grok" the coming globalism and it's meaning to the US, Clinton added the finishing touches and signed the paperwork.

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Response to IamFortunesFool (Original post)

Sun Feb 12, 2017, 01:49 PM

83. OP

A real interesting, thought provoking article. Some of it is way over my head so bear with me while I put my questions and thoughts out to you. A.) Trump wasn't expected to win the election but he did. What was Russia's plan in the event that Clinton becomes president? B.) I assume that the people for the cabinet were already picked out in the event that trump won. Could one or more of the cabinet know the truth about the Russian hacking and decided to make themselves available for the cabinet despite that knowledge? C.) The Dominionist(sp) Group has a couple of people close to trump. What would their role be in the new world order?

Are there Russian influences in the US telling the Democrats not to see a link between Russian hacking and why the Dems lost the election? Have some of these people infiltrated the Democratic Party?

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Response to DittoTheCat2 (Reply #83)

Sun Feb 12, 2017, 03:50 PM

90. Answers

Thank you for your genuine interest and thoughtful questions. I will do my best to answer them to your satisfaction...

A) Putin obviously put considerable effort and resources into his hijacking of our election, and there is enough evidence of Russian involvement to reasonably conjecture that Putin was confident in this ultimate result. Trump's win provides Putin with an immensely useful tool (fool) to continue his process of destabilization. Having Trump and Bannon in the White House allows for an expedition of Putin's/Dugin's goals. Bannon is wholly on board with the larger political strategy and Trump's ego and idiocy make him a blunt but effective bludgeon. However, had Trump lost and Clinton ascended to power, the stage was already set by Trump's myriad pronouncements for the election results to be thrown into question. The hostility and venom of those on the right towards Clinton and Obama is thick and palpable after so many years of right-wing hate radio and news, and the core of Trump supporters would have been putting on demonstrations (with some likely turning violent either organically or with some unseen guidance) much in the same way that we progressives are now protesting Trump. These were two incredibly polarizing candidates, and our country has been primed for the current unrest we're seeing for years now. Remember, the method of this madness is to sow uncertainty and division to undermine our democracy and society. While Trump's presidency certainly makes things expeditious for Putin, the election of Clinton would have sown just as much divisiveness and still worked to further his ends of destabilization. This calculus is larger than just our country. The war has many fronts and is being fought both here and across Europe, in the Middle East, as well as in the international media. Had Clinton become our 45th President, Putin's ambitions would have continued on more of a slow burn, whereas Trump has helped bring things quickly to a boil. I suspect there were provisions and strategy in place to utilize a Clinton Presidency for their desired ends as well. As I've stated in these sub-threads, this global cabal is larger than just Putin, and can be traced back to the ensconcing of centralized banking and the birth of the military industrial complex about 100 years ago. Putin seems to be the current head of a much older snake.

B) Many, if not most of the cabinet appointments were likely selected by Bannon; the stench of his politics drips from people like Devos, Pruitt, Sessions, and Perry...people who have stated their desire to tear down the very departments they've been tapped to lead. Tillerson is particularly interesting choice because of his long and documented ties to Putin and Russia. While Tillerson and Sessions are directly linked to Russia and therefore obvious conspirators to some degree, Others like Perry and Ben Carson are being used for varied reasons running the table from optics to personal politics. Intersetingly, Devos has a direct link to all of this through her brother, Erik Prince, the founder of Blackwater. At this point, it is impossible to know exactly who knows what and to what degree they are complicit in this coup. That said, I think it is safe to assume that, at minimum, Sessions and Tillerson are clued in and involved on some level.

C) The Dominionist crowd is a peculiar and varied lot. The movement has grassroots support and the players run the gambit from illiterate fundamentalist hillbillies, to billionaire socialite wankers like Devos. However, there is a marked divide within this movement between the religious true believers who want theocratic institutions as extensions of their world view, and the more sinister political players who recognize religion as the vehicle for social control that it has been used as by tyrants for millennia. People like Putin, Dugin, and Bannon are not pressing this coup for the satiation of their own religious fervor, but to sate their ambitions to power and relieve their own hateful prejudices. The power brokers of the movement (Putin/Bannon/Dugin, etc...) are like the super church televangelist preachers who spew rhetoric to the illiterate or uninformed masses to achieve their own desired and selfish ends. So to pointedly answer your query, the Dominionist not directly involved in the prosecution and execution of their "master plan" are useful sycophants nonetheless.

I could elaborate endlessly on many of these points. Like I've said before, the sheer scope, volume, and depth of all of this is truly staggering and utterly intimidating. Even just seeing it for what it is requires a fairly robust working knowledge of history, politics, psychology, and economics. As to your question about whether or not the Democratic party itself is compromised by this cabal, I would absolutely say: YES. Again, this is larger and older than the politics of this moment. The global financial elite have been meddling in, or overtly influencing our domestic and foreign policy for generations. I have no doubt that some, if not many, of our elected Democrats have been involved to varying degrees with the process of intentional social division and political chaos. To be honest, after everything I've seen and watched develop over the years, it wouldn't surprise me in the slightest if even the Clinton's were in some way involved. I'm sure that will be met with some hostile criticism here, but I stand by it. Again, this is much larger and storied than just this administration. Global economics and politics have been building towards this since WWI. Every successive administration in this country, whether knowingly or not, has helped to put us where we are today. Eisenhower warned us about this as he was leaving office... He may have been the last American President not compromised in some way by his financial backers, and therefore the moneyed interests at the heart of this entire mess.

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Response to IamFortunesFool (Reply #90)

Sun Feb 12, 2017, 06:11 PM

95. That is some seriously astute shit.

 

I love watching people do critical thinking out loud.
That is all!

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Response to IamFortunesFool (Original post)

Sun Feb 12, 2017, 02:05 PM

86. This is a very good analysis of what we're up against.

Based on this and other materials I've read here and elsewhere, I think your conclusion is likely correct. Putin has probably been cultivating Trump for a long time, both directly and through people like Manafort and Lewandowski, and his purpose is to destabilize the NATO alliance in particular, as well as our relations with other countries. I believe he hopes to use the right-wing populism/nationalism arising in Europe to cause rifts within NATO, which depends a lot on the US financially and strategically and it appears that he has been using some of the same tactics there as he (and by "he" I really mean not only Putin but his advisors, like Surkov) has here - sowing confusion and disinformation. He wasn't a high-level KGB officer for nothing, and he certainly knows where a lot of bodies are buried. He also knows how to use non-military tactics to achieve some of his goals.

Trump is Putin's useful idiot. Trump has no clue what's going on. Putin is playing a long game, using Trump's ignorance, greed and narcissism to manipulate him into following Bannon's lead. And Bannon has previously called himself at various times a Leninist who wants to tear down the whole American edifice. I'd call him a nihilist. If you're a nihilist you don't care about the truth; in fact, you want to make ascertaining the truth impossible. If nobody is sure what's going on, and the people have lost faith in previously-trusted sources of information, it's easy for the "leader" to get away with just about anything. Trump has persuaded the low-information voters who support him that only he can "fix" things; as a result at least those people will follow him blindly. Everybody else will just be confused.

Of course, lies have always been the commerce of despots. I am somewhat heartened to see that some people in the news media are catching on (where the hell were they a year ago?) and are starting to call out the lies and to explore the Russian connections. I just hope it's not too late. It took two years for Watergate to catch up with Nixon, but things move a lot faster these days.

These are strange, dangerous days but we can't give up.

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Response to IamFortunesFool (Original post)

Sun Feb 12, 2017, 05:57 PM

94. i think putin's been using talk radio and limbaugh too

Did Putin get Trump's team listen to 1000's of hours of talk radio in 2014?

and going back to the russian hack of east anglia emails which became the basis for limbaugh's global warming hoax attack on obama to kill the copenhagen talks

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Response to IamFortunesFool (Original post)

Sun Feb 12, 2017, 06:14 PM

96. unrec so i can rerec K&R....

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Response to IamFortunesFool (Original post)

Sun Feb 12, 2017, 08:38 PM

97. One question:

 

When did Russia decide Trump was their man?

After all, this is a complex operation:
-- find a sucker
-- install around him people who are friendly to Russia
-- get him elected President
-- ensure his Cabinet members are as friendly as he is

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Response to OldRedneck (Reply #97)

Sun Feb 12, 2017, 09:17 PM

100. Trump was a perfect storm of opportunity for Putin

Before Donald Trump was a presidential candidate, desperately hungry for approval and admiration, he was a celebrity businessman...desperately hungry for approval and admiration. Putin (as an x XGB colonel) knows the value of having leverage over powerful and influential people, and would have likely gathered intelligence on Trump (just as I am sure he does on all influential businessmen and world leaders that give him chance or reason) as a matter of course. The fact that Donald Trump has openly discussed running for President since the late 80's (and in earnest since 2009) would only have added more incentive for Putin to develop him as an asset. Donald Trump has always been a very polarizing figure, and at minimum could have been a valuable asset for Putin's aim to sow divisiveness and social discord. Trump and his birtherism were a key part of the vitriol and angst the right levied against Obama, and the social upheaval we see now was already well rooted and growing when Trump started fanning the flames.

Just as Trump was compromised by Putin, so have countless other politicians and businessmen likely been so, as well. The development of the conspiring members in his cabinet may have begun several years ago after Putin knew Trump would run, or they could have already been seperately developed...Like Rex Tillerson's long standing relationship with Putin, and Paul Manafort's myriad connections to the Russian agenda. It is likely Putin was already, and in parallel, developing the assets we now see around Trump, but who he would have installed around whatever other candidate he was able to employ.

However, in the end, I feel that it was likely a perfect storm of circumstance that led to Trump being the Manchurian candidate he is proving to be. The slow-cook method that Putin has been employing for some 20 years would have simmered on had Trump not come along to offer him the opportunity to turn up the heat. Trump is unstable, and thus a wild card; likely a risky bet even for Putin. I would imagine that it is a calculated gamble to expedite his agenda by putting the bull in the china shop and risking him ruining everything. By employing Trump, much has been revealed about Russia's global ambitions. Obviously Putin calculates that his chances of achieving his vision is better served by Trump, or we would not have had him installed as President.

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Response to IamFortunesFool (Original post)

Sun Feb 12, 2017, 09:13 PM

99. K&R nt

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Response to IamFortunesFool (Original post)

Sun Feb 12, 2017, 11:40 PM

101. Thank you all for your commments, input, and questions...

It is great to see so many people show a willingness to step back and see this larger picture, despite the craziness of it all. I genuinely do appreciate all of your interest and concern. Please let me know if you come across anything else that pertains to this topic, or if I can answer any more questions about what I've laid out above.

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Response to IamFortunesFool (Original post)

Mon Feb 13, 2017, 11:35 AM

102. fwiw, we arent as far behind as it seems, i dont think.

 

had a nephew who was career army, just retired. he was working on electronic warfare back when i wasnt even on the net yet myself.
i think we have done stuff, it just has not come to light.

that was really one thing about this that shocked me, russia really let it all hang out. they had to know that they were showing the world their game. it had to be worth it to them.
no way they do that for a pig in a poke. they do that for a yuuuuge stack of bacon.

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Response to IamFortunesFool (Original post)

Mon Feb 13, 2017, 01:04 PM

103. For this you get a K/R and my last heart.

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Response to IamFortunesFool (Original post)

Mon Feb 13, 2017, 02:04 PM

104. Thank you!

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Response to IamFortunesFool (Original post)

Mon Feb 13, 2017, 06:45 PM

107. America cannot tolerate Republican-Russian treason

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Response to IamFortunesFool (Original post)

Mon Feb 13, 2017, 09:49 PM

108. Kick

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Response to IamFortunesFool (Original post)

Tue Feb 14, 2017, 02:00 AM

110. The news tonight...

about Flynn and all the buzz this site finally has about this Russian connections make this post ever more pertinant for everyone to read. Shameless self K/R to get it back into view

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Response to IamFortunesFool (Reply #110)

Tue Feb 14, 2017, 02:47 AM

111. KnRnBookmark

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Response to IamFortunesFool (Original post)

Tue Feb 14, 2017, 03:07 AM

112. Trump is not even very good at hiding that Putin has something on him!

 

Trump the Russian Puppet POTUS.

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Response to IamFortunesFool (Original post)

Tue Feb 14, 2017, 10:22 AM

113. I am heartened to see the MSM picking up this story in earnest

since the late night resignation of Flynn. The full story can't stay buried now. There is still SO much work to be done just to get rid of this treasonous administration, let alone the larger global cabal of financial elite.

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Response to IamFortunesFool (Original post)

Tue Feb 14, 2017, 08:40 PM

114. I saw a very disturbing video on YouTube that presented a lot of this.

I particularly remember the part about Surkov turning "Russian politics into a bewildering, constantly changing piece of theater. He sponsored all kinds of groups, from neo-Nazi skinheads to liberal human rights groups. He even backed parties that were opposed to President Putin."

Honestly, the video freaked me out so much, I pushed it out of my mind, hoping it was some sort of sensationalized piece of fiction. Now, I'd like to see it again. Does anyone know the video I'm talking about?

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Response to Dark n Stormy Knight (Reply #114)

Tue Feb 14, 2017, 09:02 PM

115. I have not seen that... But I would like to

Please anybody that knows about this, post it.

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Response to IamFortunesFool (Reply #115)

Tue Feb 14, 2017, 09:13 PM

116. OK, here it is.

Well, this is an excerpt. I saw a longer version. Will look for it. It's a BBC doc Called HyperNormalisation, by Adam Curtis.

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Response to Dark n Stormy Knight (Reply #116)

Tue Feb 14, 2017, 09:14 PM

117. Awesome! Thank you!!

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Response to IamFortunesFool (Reply #115)

Tue Feb 14, 2017, 09:19 PM

118. Alright, here's what appears to be the entire 2.5 hour documentary.



Let me know if you get a chance to see it. I haven't seen the whole thing yet. What I saw was longer than the clip I posted first, but not the whole doc. Might wait for my husband to get back and see if he'll watch it with me. Not sure I'm ready for it.

Not saying we shouldn't share this stuff, but the problem with info like this is, what the hell do we do with it? After seeing the first except I happened upon, I just thought, well, if this is true, there is nothing we can do. Which is why I tried to put it out of my head. But, it never really left.

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Response to Dark n Stormy Knight (Reply #118)

Tue Feb 14, 2017, 09:23 PM

119. I'm going to start it now

I understand the helpless feelings.. and perhaps things have progressed beyond our ability to stop them. I, personally, would still rather see the train coming...

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