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Sat Jan 7, 2017, 12:30 PM

 

Unions need to clean house

Because there are an awful lot of them programmed by right wing radio. They want that UNION WAGE, but they vote for the union jobs to be slashed, by voting for the KGOPB.

One police union actually endorsed Trump. I wonder if they will protect us from him?

They need to clean house. Because right now I feel like I'm fighting for people who are not willing to fight for me.

I'll keep fighting anyway.

Fuck those motherfuckers.

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Arrow 38 replies Author Time Post
Reply Unions need to clean house (Original post)
LaydeeBug Jan 2017 OP
guillaumeb Jan 2017 #1
LaydeeBug Jan 2017 #3
guillaumeb Jan 2017 #5
Dustlawyer Jan 2017 #2
X_Digger Jan 2017 #33
dubyadiprecession Jan 2017 #4
LaydeeBug Jan 2017 #11
pintobean Jan 2017 #6
delisen Jan 2017 #7
pintobean Jan 2017 #8
LaydeeBug Jan 2017 #12
pintobean Jan 2017 #15
melman Jan 2017 #16
pintobean Jan 2017 #17
LaydeeBug Jan 2017 #21
pintobean Jan 2017 #22
LaydeeBug Jan 2017 #23
REP Jan 2017 #9
BainsBane Jan 2017 #10
LaydeeBug Jan 2017 #13
cigsandcoffee Jan 2017 #14
LaydeeBug Jan 2017 #24
Bucky Jan 2017 #18
MineralMan Jan 2017 #19
RedWedge Jan 2017 #20
LaydeeBug Jan 2017 #25
pintobean Jan 2017 #26
LaydeeBug Jan 2017 #27
RedWedge Jan 2017 #28
LaydeeBug Jan 2017 #29
RedWedge Jan 2017 #30
pintobean Jan 2017 #31
RedWedge Jan 2017 #32
snowy owl Jan 2017 #37
Lady Freedom Returns Jan 2017 #34
pintobean Jan 2017 #36
snowy owl Jan 2017 #35
Xolodno Jan 2017 #38

Response to LaydeeBug (Original post)

Sat Jan 7, 2017, 12:37 PM

1. Union members generally vote Democratic at higher levels

than non-union workers.

Some union members feel that neither party addresses the issues that are weakening unions, and workers in general.

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Response to guillaumeb (Reply #1)

Sat Jan 7, 2017, 12:48 PM

3. Generally?

 

My point is, esp this police union, is that they expect to get union wages while enabling union busters.

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Response to LaydeeBug (Reply #3)

Sat Jan 7, 2017, 12:50 PM

5. Agreed. Police unions historically are much more GOP leaning.

In Wisconsin, the police and firefighters unions backed Scott Walker because he promised them considerations. Until he went back on his promises and attacked them as well.

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Response to LaydeeBug (Original post)

Sat Jan 7, 2017, 12:48 PM

2. I'm the old days they all voted Democrat.

After Dems went after gun control and the religious right made it seem anti-Jesus to vote for Dems the cracks started showing. Once Dems started taking corporate money and ignoring the attacks on unions it was over.

Also, union leadership is old and entrenched pulling down big money and losing touch with their membership. They lost control and respect of the rank and file.

Rank and file have also forgotten what it takes to have leverage, the sacrifice it takes. Once they didn't have to pay dues and still get the benefits it was over then as well.

With the growing inequity there is an opportunity for some charismatic union officials to grow the unions again despite the hurdles. We should be expanding in this climate now, but there is no charismatic union guy in the trenches to do it!

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Response to Dustlawyer (Reply #2)

Sun Jan 8, 2017, 07:39 PM

33. I saw it in the early '90s.

In coal country Virginia, we had a Democratic politician coming to our corner of the state telling us how he's trying to get another navy shipyard in the tidewater region. And somehow that supposed to help the UMWA coal miners in Grundy, because.. what's good for tidewater is good for Virginia, and what's good for Virginia is good for Grundy, somehow.

Now be quiet about all this union stuff, we've got ships to build..

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Response to LaydeeBug (Original post)

Sat Jan 7, 2017, 12:49 PM

4. I know conservative union people like that.

They are usually the ones with personal problems and can't get along with their bosses. They join unions otherwise their dumb-ass's would get fired.

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Response to dubyadiprecession (Reply #4)

Sun Jan 8, 2017, 12:09 AM

11. It baffles my mind. nt

 

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Response to LaydeeBug (Original post)

Sat Jan 7, 2017, 12:59 PM

6. Union's can't "clean house" over the way members vote.

 

That's just ridiculous. Even if they could/would, how would they know how members vote?

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Response to pintobean (Reply #6)

Sat Jan 7, 2017, 01:59 PM

7. I get a pretty good idea how they vote by looking at the bumper stickers in the parking lot.

They don't always say Trump. Saw one massive pick-up the other day that featured Alex Jones INFOWARS. sticker on the rear window. Fortunately the gun rack on the inside of the window was empty.

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Response to delisen (Reply #7)

Sat Jan 7, 2017, 02:09 PM

8. So... kick him out of the union?

 

I think that would be illegal, and the union would get sued.
I'm pretty sure he never took a loyalty oath, pledging to vote for Democrats.

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Response to pintobean (Reply #8)

Sun Jan 8, 2017, 12:11 AM

12. It is not illegal, and why would you keep someone in a union that votes against it?

 

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Response to LaydeeBug (Reply #12)

Sun Jan 8, 2017, 12:38 AM

15. That article has nothing to do with union representation.

 



Do you have any idea what unions do?

Hell, due to the Republican sweep, we'll be turning right to work, which means we can't even kick people out for not paying dues.

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Response to pintobean (Reply #15)

Sun Jan 8, 2017, 02:29 AM

16. What are you

 

some kinda mansplainer or something?

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Response to melman (Reply #16)

Sun Jan 8, 2017, 06:07 AM

17. Lol. I guess so.

 

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Response to pintobean (Reply #15)

Sun Jan 8, 2017, 02:38 PM

21. The article clearly states that it isn't illegal.

 

You're welcome for that.

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Response to LaydeeBug (Reply #21)

Sun Jan 8, 2017, 02:57 PM

22. No, it doesn't. Unions don't hire and fire

 

other than their own staff.

You're welcome for that.

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Response to pintobean (Reply #22)

Sun Jan 8, 2017, 04:55 PM

23. Nope..but they can certainly rid themselves of members voting

 

against them.

And they should.

Because they are getting destroyed from within. They're playing war. You're playing politics.

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Response to LaydeeBug (Original post)

Sat Jan 7, 2017, 02:17 PM

9. Unions like TIU, CWA, SEIU ....?

Police Unions are not all Unions. We need MORE Unions and Unionized workers.

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Response to LaydeeBug (Original post)

Sat Jan 7, 2017, 10:34 PM

10. Cutting members doesn't help unions

We are at or near the lowest rate of unionization in well over a century. The last thing they need is to be smaller. A union's primary role is to negotiate on behalf of their membership, not promote one party over another. While your point that voting GOP undermines unions is correct, citizens have every right to vote how they choose.

Police unions generally support Republicans.

You can't punish everyone who disagrees you. You anger at unions diverts attention from the real problem: Trump and the GOP. Democrats should think about how to win those members back, not kick them out or get them fired, which would be entirely illegal anyway.





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Response to BainsBane (Reply #10)

Sun Jan 8, 2017, 12:13 AM

13. The real problem is Russia and the KGOPB

 

but unions are not serving themselves when they allow members in who vote against its interest.

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Response to LaydeeBug (Original post)

Sun Jan 8, 2017, 12:35 AM

14. This kind of thinking is how Nazi Germany got started.

It's better to win hearts and minds with good example than to conduct purity tests and purges.

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Response to cigsandcoffee (Reply #14)

Sun Jan 8, 2017, 04:55 PM

24. unless they're cheating and ignoring Court's Orders...

 

then you don't get to win hearts and minds.

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Response to LaydeeBug (Original post)

Sun Jan 8, 2017, 06:43 AM

18. You can't expect overall uniformity. Union leaders are pro Dem.

So when you talk about "We need to clean house," it sounds like you're calling for a purge of the membership so that the rank-and-file union guys are falling in line behind their leaders. That doesn't sound very democratic to me.

The reason why a lot of union members voted Republican is because there was a GOP candidate talking about bringing back jobs. That should have been our message. I mean, sure he was lying,but it just wasn't enough of our cultural focus as a political party.

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Response to LaydeeBug (Original post)

Sun Jan 8, 2017, 10:51 AM

19. Don't union rank and file members elect their own officials?

Seems to me that an education process is what's needed. Any changes will have to come from the membership. Outsiders really have no voice in the matter.

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Response to LaydeeBug (Original post)

Sun Jan 8, 2017, 11:20 AM

20. The Fraternal Order of Police is not affiliated with the AFL-CIO.

"Clean house"? What, exactly, does that look like?

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Response to RedWedge (Reply #20)

Sun Jan 8, 2017, 04:56 PM

25. I am not sure what it looks like...but doing nothing isn't helping. nt

 

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Response to LaydeeBug (Reply #25)

Sun Jan 8, 2017, 05:20 PM

26. And, there we have it.

 

I am not sure what it looks like...but doing nothing isn't helping. nt




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Response to pintobean (Reply #26)

Sun Jan 8, 2017, 05:36 PM

27. Yep...we certainly do...

 

it will make them leaner and meaner for a time, but it will make them stronger in the end...

because they are rotting from within.

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Response to LaydeeBug (Reply #25)

Sun Jan 8, 2017, 06:38 PM

28. This discussion implies that you think there's something you should be able to do.

And I find it laughable and a little chilling at the same time.

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Response to RedWedge (Reply #28)

Sun Jan 8, 2017, 06:48 PM

29. Welcome to DU

 

I am doing what I should be able to do...open a discussion about it.

I know 12 teachers. 11 of them voted for Trump. He straight up said *repeatedly* that he wants to eliminate their jobs. But they're mostly racist, so...

I am currently friends with 1 teacher, lol

The 11 aren't concerned with their unions. They're done in 9 or 10 years, and "they got theirs, so..."

Maybe the union should give those guys some notice.

I find it laughable that you would think they are helping

And a little chilling...

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Response to LaydeeBug (Reply #29)

Sun Jan 8, 2017, 06:56 PM

30. Any organization has people who don't do the work and are along for the ride.

Your broad-brush call, based on a dozen anecdotal examples, for unions to "clean house" shows a complete lack of understanding about the role of unions and how they're governed. "Maybe the union should give those guys some notice," for chrissakes WTF.

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Response to RedWedge (Reply #30)

Sun Jan 8, 2017, 07:04 PM

31. There's nothing unusual here.

 

She does stuff like this all the time.

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Response to pintobean (Reply #31)

Sun Jan 8, 2017, 07:27 PM

32. I've seen it happen.

Lost my longtime login over the election. Usually I ignore this kind of crap but when it comes to unions, I'll jump in every time.

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Response to LaydeeBug (Reply #29)

Sun Jan 8, 2017, 08:34 PM

37. Teacher here. All I know voted HRC. But teachers have different interests-may be regional.

Actually, many in my city were Sanders but HRC got our votes in election.

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Response to LaydeeBug (Original post)

Sun Jan 8, 2017, 07:59 PM

34. Are you a member of a Union?

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Response to Lady Freedom Returns (Reply #34)

Sun Jan 8, 2017, 08:25 PM

36. Fabricators local 86

 

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Response to LaydeeBug (Original post)

Sun Jan 8, 2017, 08:22 PM

35. Union membership very low. Private sector: 6.7% It's not about unions anymore.

In 2013 there were 14.5 million members in the U.S., compared with 17.7 million in 1983. In 2013, the percentage of workers belonging to a union was 11.3%, compared to 20.1% in 1983. The rate for the private sector was 6.7%, and for the public sector 35.3%.

Many that used to be good union people who voted democrat are now feeling betrayed and looking for anyone who promises help. That was Trump this election. BTW, union wages aren't so great anymore. Like everyone else, many are stagnant. It is the 1% who got it all. All those people who kept hosting fund raising parties for Clinton. That was a problem.

Edit: Dems had a lock on rank-and-file union members until nineties when DNC became buddies with corporate elite and union bosses. That's my memory anyway. Reagan turned every union member into a Democrat but the Dems stopped supporting them.

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Response to LaydeeBug (Original post)

Sun Jan 8, 2017, 08:35 PM

38. For some, I agree.

Some unions are great and fight tooth and nail for their members. Others....not so much...

Prior to going "salaried" and on a previous job, the employee's hated the management with a passion, save for one. The Union. The shop stewards only did it to have some representation and when someone bitched to them about the union they would turn around and say, "fine, then you be shop steward"...which would shut them up. The morale was horrible.

The only time we saw our Business Agent, who used to be an employee there, was when the newest contract got voted down. He appeared afterwards and made an emotional plea, talked about the bad economy at the time and their would be no shortage of people looking to take our jobs, even on the temporary basis. The next vote got it approved....but it wasn't because of the "emotional plea", because it demonstrated once again, the union did not have its members interest and any strike would not be supported.

After I left, heard eventually they voted to boot the union and joined another and things improved.

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