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Fri Jan 6, 2017, 06:38 PM

Senator Bill Nelson on the Fort Lauderdale shooting -- WTF?

CBS is reporting that the Fort Lauderdale shooter had the gun in his checked baggage, that he retrieved his bags, removed the gun, and made his way to a restroom to load it. All the while, they are talking about how much wider the security perimeter needs to be at airports. But, if it is true that he retrieved it from his checked baggage, seems to me the solution is much simpler: ban weapons from ALL air travel, whether checked or not. This would be a simple, and nearly cost-free, solution.

Incredibly, when one of the talking heads raised that idea, Florida Senator Bill Nelson immediately dismissed it, saying, "What about hunters?" EXCUSE ME?? Whatever may be said of the right to own firearms, there is NO Constitutional right to hunt or to carry weapons on an airplane! The idea that the rest of us need to accommodate the convenience of hunters is simply outrageous! Apparently, Senator Nelson thinks the lives and safety of the traveling public should take a back seat to the convenience of the relative minority of people who hunt!

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Arrow 34 replies Author Time Post
Reply Senator Bill Nelson on the Fort Lauderdale shooting -- WTF? (Original post)
markpkessinger Jan 2017 OP
BainsBane Jan 2017 #1
guillaumeb Jan 2017 #3
guillaumeb Jan 2017 #2
sharp_stick Jan 2017 #4
markpkessinger Jan 2017 #17
Qutzupalotl Jan 2017 #20
sharp_stick Jan 2017 #22
50 Shades Of Blue Jan 2017 #5
yeoman6987 Jan 2017 #16
markpkessinger Jan 2017 #18
yeoman6987 Jan 2017 #19
markpkessinger Jan 2017 #21
Crunchy Frog Jan 2017 #23
madokie Jan 2017 #6
onenote Jan 2017 #7
markpkessinger Jan 2017 #9
citood Jan 2017 #15
Johnathan146 Jan 2017 #10
markpkessinger Jan 2017 #13
Midwestern Democrat Jan 2017 #24
markpkessinger Jan 2017 #8
Generic Brad Jan 2017 #11
KittyWampus Jan 2017 #12
markpkessinger Jan 2017 #14
Vinca Jan 2017 #25
NutmegYankee Jan 2017 #28
Vinca Jan 2017 #29
NutmegYankee Jan 2017 #30
rickford66 Jan 2017 #26
NutmegYankee Jan 2017 #27
markpkessinger Jan 2017 #31
NutmegYankee Jan 2017 #32
markpkessinger Jan 2017 #34
kudzu22 Jan 2017 #33

Response to markpkessinger (Original post)

Fri Jan 6, 2017, 06:40 PM

1. Translation:

What about the NRA?

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Response to BainsBane (Reply #1)

Fri Jan 6, 2017, 06:41 PM

3. The everpresent sub-text for many politicians. eom

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Response to markpkessinger (Original post)

Fri Jan 6, 2017, 06:40 PM

2. What if I am hunting space aliens?

It might be necessary to break out a lane window to take a shot.

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Response to markpkessinger (Original post)

Fri Jan 6, 2017, 06:45 PM

4. When I went to competitions

I would always ship the gun(s) with a courier service. I would never trust them on a plane.

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Response to sharp_stick (Reply #4)

Fri Jan 6, 2017, 07:18 PM

17. Makes a lot of sense! n/t

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Response to sharp_stick (Reply #4)

Fri Jan 6, 2017, 07:59 PM

20. Wouldn't the courier use a plane for long distances?

How big a distance are we talking?

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Response to Qutzupalotl (Reply #20)

Fri Jan 6, 2017, 09:30 PM

22. They did

but FedEx and UPS have their own planes and I never saw the gun until I showed up at the hotel or customs office depending on the place. Normally they left it in the case, especially if it was overseas. I should have clarified that I never would have trusted a normal commercial carrier without some kickass insurance.

Some of the paperwork was something else, I remember going to a shoot in Great Britain in the early 90s and getting permission to bring my stuff was something else. I had to accept it at the customs office and show them all the permission forms from the government and then they delivered it directly to the competition site where it was kept under lock and key.

I was pretty good in my younger days, it was a lot of fun.

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Response to markpkessinger (Original post)

Fri Jan 6, 2017, 06:47 PM

5. FUCK. HIM.

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Response to 50 Shades Of Blue (Reply #5)

Fri Jan 6, 2017, 07:15 PM

16. Senate election 2018

 

He is moderating to win in Florida since he knows governor Scott is running against him. I don't agree with the senator but he's doing this to save a democratic seat.

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Response to yeoman6987 (Reply #16)

Fri Jan 6, 2017, 07:20 PM

18. "Moderating" . . . is that what you call it? n/t

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Response to markpkessinger (Reply #18)

Fri Jan 6, 2017, 07:27 PM

19. I was being generous.

 

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Response to yeoman6987 (Reply #19)

Fri Jan 6, 2017, 08:34 PM

21. I remember when it was spelled p-a-n-d-e-r-i-n-g

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Response to markpkessinger (Reply #18)

Sat Jan 7, 2017, 08:16 AM

23. It's Newspeak for "swinging hard right".

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Response to markpkessinger (Original post)

Fri Jan 6, 2017, 06:48 PM

6. President Harrison's quote

in your sig line

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Response to markpkessinger (Original post)

Fri Jan 6, 2017, 06:51 PM

7. How does a checked firearm pose any more of a threat than a firearm carried into an airport?

Airports are public spaces. Sadly, guns are allowed to be carried in public spaces. Your "solution" might have prevented this shooting. Or maybe the shooter simply would have taken his gun, walked into any airport he could reach by car, train, public transportation, and shot people there.

I'm fervently anti-gun, having helped on a pro-bono basis establish what was originally known as Handgun Control Inc. But the issue here isn't that someone can check a gun and then retrieve it when they arrive somewhere. It's that anyone can walk into any airport with a loaded gun.

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Response to onenote (Reply #7)

Fri Jan 6, 2017, 06:57 PM

9. That is certainly true as well . . .

. . . I didn't suggest my solution solved every problem here. But why should we be making it so easy for someone to do what this guy did?

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Response to markpkessinger (Reply #9)

Fri Jan 6, 2017, 07:11 PM

15. He actually made it harder on himself

In most airports, its just a matter of hopping in the car a driving to the unsecured baggage claim area. I have no idea why he felt he had to travel with his gun first, but that component wasn't necessary at all.

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Response to onenote (Reply #7)

Fri Jan 6, 2017, 06:57 PM

10. It isnt

 

He could have just as easily mailed it to Flordia and carried it onto the airport.

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Response to onenote (Reply #7)

Fri Jan 6, 2017, 07:00 PM

13. And, as I point out below . . .

. . . let's suppose we move the perimeter outwards, to, say, a mile from the terminal. There will still be that area just outside the perimeter where people will wait to be screened. And this will become the new target area.

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Response to onenote (Reply #7)

Sat Jan 7, 2017, 09:04 AM

24. Correct - airport security measures are about preventing passengers from boarding airplanes

with guns and other weapons on their person or in their carry-on baggage - the airport itself outside the security checkpoint is no different than any other public space like a shopping mall. Even if guns are not "allowed" to be carried into a public space, you really can't prevent it from happening if there's no metal detector at the point of entry - and that's just not feasible for high traffic public spaces.

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Response to markpkessinger (Original post)

Fri Jan 6, 2017, 06:53 PM

8. And this business about widening the security perimeter . . .

. . . The thing is, wherever you place the security perimeter, there will be an area just outside of it where people will be lined up as they come and go. Move the perimeter, and all you will have accomplished (besides imposing still more headaches on travelers) is moving the location of the target.

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Response to markpkessinger (Original post)

Fri Jan 6, 2017, 06:58 PM

11. How long before we hear the following?:

"Now is not the time to politicize guns. Have some respect for the dead."

I guarantee we will hear that lame deflection from a public official in the next 48 hours

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Response to markpkessinger (Original post)

Fri Jan 6, 2017, 06:59 PM

12. Hunters can pack their weapons and ship them to wherever they are going.

 

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Response to KittyWampus (Reply #12)

Fri Jan 6, 2017, 07:11 PM

14. Exactly -- it's not like they don't have another option n/t

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Response to markpkessinger (Original post)

Sat Jan 7, 2017, 09:15 AM

25. There can be a sane compromise on this.

If guns are going to be shipped on a plane, they should be separated from an owner's checked baggage and placed in a secure container. Any checked guns would go into the container and the container would be permanently affixed to the wall of the plane. Upon arrival, a security person would retrieve any checked weapons, take them to the baggage area and release them outside the security perimeter to the passenger after the passenger provides (for the second time) proof of ownership and license. My first choice is to have no guns anywhere, but since that will never happen - especially with the GOP in control - we have to do the best we can to contain the problem.

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Response to Vinca (Reply #25)

Sat Jan 7, 2017, 11:51 AM

28. That is basically what was done. Baggage claim is outside the Security Perimeter.

The gun was locked in a separate locked container that was checked and stored in the baggage hold inaccessible to the owner, and was retrieved in the baggage area outside of the security perimeter. Providing proof of ownership (almost no place in US has licenses for owning property) isn't really any different. The guy went into a bathroom, removed ammunition from a separate checked bag and loaded the gun.

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Response to NutmegYankee (Reply #28)

Sat Jan 7, 2017, 12:38 PM

29. So it's a problem without a solution other than banning all guns.

Anyone can walk into the baggage claim area with a gun whether they are a passenger or a generic killer off the street. A second check of identification, etc., might give some people second thoughts. Other than that, we're sitting ducks. Of course, we're sitting ducks everywhere in this country.

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Response to Vinca (Reply #29)

Sat Jan 7, 2017, 02:31 PM

30. The last thing I'm interested in is leaving the only guns in the hands of Trump's Schutzstaffel

Sure, I'm sure a few on the left will docilely get into train cars and then undress for their "shower", but I'm not one of them.

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Response to markpkessinger (Original post)

Sat Jan 7, 2017, 11:30 AM

26. One guy with a shoe bomb and we all have to remove our shoes.

Definitely ban firearms. I've had several innocent work related things confiscated at check in. I shoulda had a gun.

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Response to markpkessinger (Original post)

Sat Jan 7, 2017, 11:38 AM

27. Just as a note: Some states do have hunting and fishing identified as State Constitutional rights.

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Response to NutmegYankee (Reply #27)

Sun Jan 8, 2017, 06:49 PM

31. And such rights apply within those states only . . .

. . . and since air travel falls under the Fed's constitutional responsibility for regulation of commerce, it is the U.S. Constitution. (Actually, under the Supremacy clause, state constitutions would take a back seat in any case.)

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Response to markpkessinger (Reply #31)

Sun Jan 8, 2017, 08:14 PM

32. The 9th and 10th Amendments would prevent a federal ban on hunting.

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Response to NutmegYankee (Reply #32)

Mon Jan 9, 2017, 03:48 AM

34. Who said anything about a federal ban on hunting?

All I said was that it was absurd to suggest that public safety in air travel needed to accommodate the convenience of hunters. This was in response to Senator Nelson's dismissal of the idea that firearms could be banned from air travel (including in checked luggage). And the federal government certainly is not required to accommodate traveling with weapons for any purpose, including any right to hunt enunciated in a state constitution.

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Response to markpkessinger (Original post)

Sun Jan 8, 2017, 08:30 PM

33. The fact that he traveled with the gun

is irrelevant. Banning the practice of flying with guns in checked baggage does exactly nothing to enhance safety. He could just as easily walk in from the street with a loaded gun and do the exact same thing. Unless you want to set up TSA-style checkpoints everywhere more than five people congregate, no security measure is gong to prevent similar occurrences.

A better question to ask is why, if this guy was so clearly nuts, did they give him his gun back?

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