Cenk is over at Daily Kos calling for a vote against Obama (updated)

[ProSense]

Last edited Thu Dec 29, 2011, 12:19 PM - Edit history (2)

Vote Against Obama in Iowa
http://www.dailykos.com/story/2011/12/29/1049662/-Vote-Against-Obama-in-Iowa


What a silly clown this guy has become. Al Gore should snatch the platform from under this moron.

I seriously believe these assholes want a Republican to win. Maybe he's longing for his idol Reagan.


Here's why Cenk really wants a protest vote against the President:

<...>

I follow politics for a living; I'm not unaware of how hideous the Republican choices are. But that doesn't mean that we should pretend that President Obama has been brilliant because we're scared of the big, bad Republicans. That would be fundamentally dishonest.

And to be honest, I'm really disappointed that he does not have a primary opponent. This country is dying for someone who is going to take on the establishment. Who is that going to be on our side - Barack Obama? On that, I know whether to laugh or cry. Every time I think about the idea that President Obama might be against the establishment, I laugh and laugh and laugh. There is never been a guy who was this enamored with the establishment. If he had wrestling nickname it would be The Establishment.

The guy who appointed Tim Geithner, Ben Bernanke, Larry Summers, Rahm Emanuel and Bill Daley (and a list of hundreds of others, including two new Fed appointments, one of which is a Republican who worked for the Carlyle Group) is not a guy who is interested in changing the system at all. Change was a cutesy slogan he used to trick us into thinking he was on our side.

I would have loved a progressive alternative, but apparently we are not going to get one (except for Rocky Anderson running on the Justice Party ticket). Primaries are the perfect place to send a message without taking away votes in the general election. But it didn't happen because the Democratic establishment says we must fall in line because we wouldn't want to hurt the agenda of the president. The agenda of the president sucks and is deeply Republican. I'd love to at least get him to reconsider that agenda for a second.

This moron's fact-free screed is simply designed to stir up anti-Obama sentiments.

Let's take a look at the President's "deeply Republican" agenda:

http://www.democraticunderground.com/100219885

http://www.democraticunderground.com/100233108


Repeat: Anyone who wants to consider the first President to finally enact health care reform, the President who repealed DADT and ended the ban on gays in the military, the President who ended the Iraq war, who strenghtened the NLRB, who reregulated the financial industry, creating a the first-ever consumer bureau and giving the FDIC new powers, enacting some of the toughest environmental rules in decades, including the first-ever rule on mercury, and appointing two liberal women to the Supreme court...anyone who sees this President as a "deeply Republican" is a moron!

Cenk qualifies.

[surfdog]

1. I agree

The guy isn't very grounded

[pleiadian candidate]

131. This guy is, though!

[spanone]

2. i wonder who he's planning on voting for?

[pleiadian candidate]

130. Who do you plan to vote for?

The guy advocating for national drones?

[spanone]

234. fucking a

[Phx_Dem]

327. You betcha!

Those drones have killed a lot of terrorists while keeping soldiers safe.

[Capitalocracy]

147. Obama, obviously.

Just not in the primary. From the excerpt in the OP:

"Primaries are the perfect place to send a message without taking away votes in the general election."

[NNN0LHI]

3. I knew he was an asscarrot first time I heard him

Sometimes you can judge a book by its cover.

Don

[Richardo]

19. ..

[SidDithers]

164. Yup...

Sid

[flamingdem]

173. Thanks for the new term

asscarrot is indeed an addition to the English language. First I've heard of this one.

[pocoloco]

275. Do all trolls think the Constitution is

just "a god damned piece of paper" too?

[NNN0LHI]

276. Just to be sure here who are you calling a troll?

[Enrique]

4. Cenk is wrong in this part:

But if all of those people were to go and participate on the Democratic side they might have an effect. If "uncommitted" beat President Obama on the Democratic side in Iowa that would make some news. That might even get the attention of The Establishment. So far, he has only responded to right-wing pressure. He is the consummate politician, so if there was actually a little bit of pressure on his left he might have to respond to it, especially during an election season. Wouldn't it be amazing if President Obama acted like a progressive on some issue because he was worried about the voters?


There are at least two major examples of Obama responding to pressure from the left, and it does no good to ignore these successes. : first, there was Don't Ask Don't Tell, second, there was the reversal of the high rate of deportations.

[boston bean]

10. could you imagine what Obama might do, if people weren't telling others to STFU?

I think that is the point. Make a statement. Make a politician do what is right and what the people want.

Unless of course Obama rank and fil democrats don't want bankers held accountable, and like the NDAA, and love more war and drone attacks on innocents.

[Mr Dixon]

25. SMH

Bait much?

[boston bean]

28. no.

you?

[bluestate10]

210. Continue to make the assumption that other democrats agree with your positions.

You obviously didn't watch Tweety's show tonight. There was serious love for President Obama in that big crowd. So much love that when Tweety did his usual negative tweaking of Obama, the crowd started to mumble in the background, a couple of times that forced Tweety to whiplash on his statements instantly.

[stevenleser]

324. You mean like the people telling Greenwald critics to shut up all over GD?

Cant have it both ways. Either criticism means you are telling people to shut up, or it isnt.

[Phx_Dem]

328. Drone attacks on innocents!??

That's the biggest whopper I've read here in quite some time. I have never read once of a drone intentionally attacking civilians.

Sadly, civilians get killed in combat by ACCIDENT. Sometimes our own troops get killed by friendly fire. I suppose we should ban them as well.

[FarLeftFist]

5. Sometimes I think they DO want an R to win so they can go on the offensive

There's not much ratings in pro-govt media but with an R in the WH they (leftist journalists) can go all "Hannity" on the R president.

[ElboRuum]

129. Sorry...

But I do not want to suffer 4 years of any p(R)esident just so Cenk can have cannon fodder for the foreseeable future.

And the same old crap about he lied to me, he roped me in, he promised this change etc... Bullshit, Cenk put on his rose-colored glasses and saw what he wanted to see just like every other person who "thought" (read hoped) he'd be some progressive avatar. The wounded acolyte bit is nonsense no matter who is wearing it.

[UnrepentantLiberal]

264. Yeah, we should have never put on those

"hope" and "change" glasses. That was silly. Silly, naive us.

[ElboRuum]

314. Interesting.

The one phrase that was known to every thinking person as campaign puffery is the one that intelligent progressives hung their hats on.

That was pretty naive.

[UnrepentantLiberal]

317. Yes, every thinking person should have known

that he is a liar. I feel so stupid.

[ElboRuum]

321. That's the point.

He isn't a liar. The narrative many progressives embraced "made" him into one. The error was painting over reality with a chosen narrative and then expecting reality to bend to the narrative.

Not once during the campaign did he ever show himself to be particularly (if at all) progressive, but somehow, "hope and change" got conflated and transmogrified in a lot of people's minds as "progressive". He went from centrist to left in three words. Who does that without quite a lot of help from the listener?

Thinking people know the difference between a campaign slogan and a campaign promise.

[UnrepentantLiberal]

322. Yep, I should have known he is a Republican

who had no intentions of changing anything. The offshore drilling is awesome. Wasn't the oil spill fun? Can't wait to vote for him this November.

[surfdog]

6. Cenk is one of those idiots

That feels the current problem in Washington is that the president isn't liberal enough

[boston bean]

7. He asked Iowa caucus go'ers to use an Occupy strategy

and vote un-committed. Not to vote against him.

It wouldn't hurt Obama's re-election at all, and might get him to take notice of what people in this country want.

[Javaman]

9. Exactly right.

It seems as if the OP hadn't read the article themselves.

[UnrepentantLiberal]

265. Too busy writting a reponse

that said "untrue" and "no facts".

[PassingFair]

17. There are people on "our side" who want to "control the message" every bit as much as Karl Rove...

wants it controlled on "his side".

They are craven enough to be afraid of any light being
shined on problems within our party.

Transparency is anathema to these people.

[ProSense]

20. Actually,

"There are people on "our side" who want to "control the message" every bit as much as Karl Rove..."

...there are people using Karl Rove tactics on "our side." There primary goal is to create the impression that the President is lacking, weak, a "trojan horse"

<...>

I follow politics for a living; I'm not unaware of how hideous the Republican choices are. But that doesn't mean that we should pretend that President Obama has been brilliant because we're scared of the big, bad Republicans. That would be fundamentally dishonest.

And to be honest, I'm really disappointed that he does not have a primary opponent. This country is dying for someone who is going to take on the establishment. Who is that going to be on our side - Barack Obama? On that, I know whether to laugh or cry. Every time I think about the idea that President Obama might be against the establishment, I laugh and laugh and laugh. There is never been a guy who was this enamored with the establishment. If he had wrestling nickname it would be The Establishment.

The guy who appointed Tim Geithner, Ben Bernanke, Larry Summers, Rahm Emanuel and Bill Daley (and a list of hundreds of others, including two new Fed appointments, one of which is a Republican who worked for the Carlyle Group) is not a guy who is interested in changing the system at all. Change was a cutesy slogan he used to trick us into thinking he was on our side.

http://www.dailykos.com/story/2011/12/29/1049662/-Vote-Against-Obama-in-Iowa?via=siderecent

Cenk is a dishonest clown.

[hfojvt]

39. what's dishonest or clowning about that?

Okay, he is trying to be funny in several spots, but nothing wrong with that. The bottom line that Obama is not on our side, has not been on our side, seems as right as rain to me.

But part of that depends on what "our" side is.

[ProSense]

89. So

"Okay, he is trying to be funny in several spots, but nothing wrong with that."

...moronic is now "funny"?

[PassingFair]

50. I agree with him.

"I follow politics for a living; I'm not unaware of how hideous the Republican choices are. But that doesn't mean that we should pretend that President Obama has been brilliant because we're scared of the big, bad Republicans. That would be fundamentally dishonest.

And to be honest, I'm really disappointed that he does not have a primary opponent. This country is dying for someone who is going to take on the establishment. Who is that going to be on our side - Barack Obama? On that, I know whether to laugh or cry. Every time I think about the idea that President Obama might be against the establishment, I laugh and laugh and laugh. There is never been a guy who was this enamored with the establishment. If he had wrestling nickname it would be The Establishment.

The guy who appointed Tim Geithner, Ben Bernanke, Larry Summers, Rahm Emanuel and Bill Daley (and a list of hundreds of others, including two new Fed appointments, one of which is a Republican who worked for the Carlyle Group) is not a guy who is interested in changing the system at all. Change was a cutesy slogan he used to trick us into thinking he was on our side. "




Many of us voters felt that we had a choice between Obama and Clinton. We were duped.
They were and are playing from the same book.

Your "team" may choose to ignore our awareness at your own peril.

Luckily, the republicans are in COMPLETE disarray and unless they wise up and
coalesce behind Romney, the Democrats don't have a worry in the world.

[ProSense]

87. I know

"Many of us voters felt that we had a choice between Obama and Clinton. We were duped.
They were and are playing from the same book."

...Hillary makes Obama look like a RW Republican, right?

I mean, if Hillary had become President we'd have single payer and pot legal.

[hfojvt]

99. no, silly, Hillary is DLC

But we thought, we hoped, that Obama was not DLC. So we got all fired up and hopeful and we ran down the field to kick that football to the moon, but Lucy Obama yanked it away and said "Haw haw, I am DLC too." and we went flying into the air and slammed on the ground.

Now, we are just a wee bit peeved.

[ProSense]

110. Funny,

"But we thought, we hoped, that Obama was not DLC. "

...I knew exactly who Obama was, and he wasn't DLC, still isn't. See, anyone who feels they were duped wasn't paying attention, IMO.

[PassingFair]

126. His cabinet was almost completely comprised of DLC bigwigs.

Some of us who were paying attention got duped.

Some of us who weren't paying attention got duped.

We were all duped into thinking that Obama offered
an alternative to the 3rd Way, DLC powers-that-be.

[Sherman A1]

262. I knew exactly who Obama was

and I knew that we were not electing a progressive. It was the best of two bad choices, but it was the best available at the time.

I had "hoped" for more "change", but I was pretty sure that we were going to get just more of the same and in fact we have done so.

I believe the primaries are a good place to send a message, yet I suspect that even if it were a strong "we are not happy", it will be dismissed.

Romney will be the GOP nominee, Obama will win in the General Election and we will see what comes around in 2016.

[PassingFair]

106. You don't understand at all.

Things would be NO DIFFERENT.

The economy would still be rigged by the same
protected players.

There WAS no choice between Clinton and Obama.
It was a Hobson's Choice.

Which means NO choice.

Still, you would think that it would have taught them
a lesson.

That they should at least pay lip-service to
a progressive agenda....but all they took away was that
we could be duped into voting for something that didn't
exist and now they don't even have to pretend that we
have choices within the party.

I continue to support the Progressive Caucus in the House.

[ProSense]

109. No

"There WAS no choice between Clinton and Obama.
It was a Hobson's Choice. "

...you don't understand. There was a choice between Hillary, Obama and a few other Democrats. People made their choices, and it came down to Hillary and Obama.

[PassingFair]

112. The "choice" between "Hillary" and "Obama" was NO choice.

Same team, same players, no choice.

[ProSense]

115. Um

The "choice" between "Hillary" and "Obama" was NO choice.

Yes, it was. Go and take a look at the candidates, all of them. If people wanted to choose one of the others, they would have. It came down to two candidates, and you got to choose one.

In fact, if you didn't want to choose one of those candidates, you didn't have to.

[TheKentuckian]

185. Different names, faces, and gender

Little substantive difference between policies which means no real choice and what little differences there were blew away like dust in the wind as the cabinet was staffed with the Who's who among DLC'ers.

The "choice" was superficial and sure as hell not worth flogging three and four years down the line.

[hfojvt]

119. Well I caucused for Edwards, even though he had dropped out

but there were only five of us, and in the 2nd round, we all went with Obama. So the DFA and Ted Kennedy, presumably thinking we were defeating the DLC wing of the party. Well, we seem to have won the battle and lost the war.

[sabrina 1]

137. Where is the dishonesty there? Did Obama NOT appoint all those Wall Street

people to his cabinet? And that is a serious issue for his next election. Who is he planning to put on his cabinet next time?

Cenk is using a strategy to get the attention of those in charge. Since politics is all about strategy, why do you object to the people most affected by politics using it also, for a CHANGE?

[fascisthunter]

312. no response to your question....

[A Simple Game]

166. You think Cenk is a dishonest clown?

Seems to me that everything he said is mostly true, care to provide some proof of his dishonesty?

[Maven]

197. Everything in those three paragraphs is 100% true.

Sorry it doesn't fit with the Circle D (TM) agenda.

[fascisthunter]

311. Oh yes indeed... and it is CREEPY!

[karynnj]

48. Do you believe the media will see it as not against Obama?

What I would prefer is if Obama gets a large number of Iowans out to caucus for him with no opposition. The best story would be if Obama gets more caucus goers than the sum of the Republicans. The caucus could then act as a really cool Democratic victory rally to start the reelection campaign.

I wonder if - under the radar - the Obama organizers are doing what they can to get people to come out and be with fellow democrats to reelect a President who faced really horrendous problems and has made good (but not enough) progress even with the anklebiting Republican Congressmen trying to stop him every second.

Maybe they can provide good refreshments.

[YvonneCa]

190. I love this post! "...anklebiting Republican Congressmen"

...is the perfect visual description.

[treestar]

58. Haven't they been screaming about what they want for three years?

We know what they want. They want "balls." They want an all powerful Presidency with no input from Congress. They want a President who will act as if Republicans don't exist and have no rights. As if the Republicans cannot get any votes. They think that if the President demands something, the bully pulpit magically gets everyone on the President's side immediately, not daring to oppose him.

They've screamed and stomped their feet for three years, and guess what - we still have a government with three branches and one that does not do vague things like "prosecute bankers" - no, it still insists on prosecuting particular individuals against whom there is enough evidence - probable cause - to bring that individual to trial.

[fascisthunter]

308. That's my take on this as well

[Javaman]

8. Where exactly does it say that in the article? I just read it.

From the article...

But there is one thing we can do right now that doesn't really hurt the chances of the president getting re-elected and doesn't help Republicans one bit. It is an idea that Occupy Iowa came up with. In the Iowa caucuses you can vote for "uncommitted." In fact, since the 1970's "uncommitted" has won twice on the Democratic side and it beat Bob Dole in 1980. Of course, the Republican Party has shut down this option on their side. They say you can vote that way in the GOP field but they will not register those votes or send those delegates. Of course, they're the GOP; they have no interest in your dissent.

But if all of those people were to go and participate on the Democratic side they might have an effect. If "uncommitted" beat President Obama on the Democratic side in Iowa that would make some news. That might even get the attention of The Establishment. So far, he has only responded to right-wing pressure. He is the consummate politician, so if there was actually a little bit of pressure on his left he might have to respond to it, especially during an election season. Wouldn't it be amazing if President Obama acted like a progressive on some issue because he was worried about the voters?

By the way, this strategy also has the benefit of being accurate. I am "uncommitted" toward Obama. I'm uncommitted from supporting a guy that has walked all over our civil liberties, that thinks tax cuts are the only answer, that gave all of the money to the bankers and asked for nothing in return, that thinks the right-wing establishment has all of the answers. Uncommitted is the kindest word I have.

If you live in Iowa, please send a message to the President for the rest of us. We voted for change last time, apparently you didn't hear us. If you don't hear us soon, you might be the one that gets changed.

http://www.dailykos.com/story/2011/12/29/1049662/-Vote-Against-Obama-in-Iowa
------------------------------

What he's stating is all about Iowa.

It's about sending a message to the President that we want him to change his policies to stop favoring the center right. That's all.

If you think a strategy to hold a president responcible to his base is bad, well then, that's a pretty odd perspective.

[Union Scribe]

11. Thanks for posting that.

It's rather different from what the OP claimed.

[ProSense]

13. He's

"But there is one thing we can do right now that doesn't really hurt the chances of the president getting re-elected and doesn't help Republicans one bit."

....a bigger moron for that statement.

For someone in TV he appears absolutely clueless about messaging. In fact, I don't think that. I think he's dogwhistling for trolls.

His entire argument is specious. His timing, a weak before the Republican caucus, is not accidental.

[Javaman]

41. I think you are lost.

or have read an entirely different article.

All he is saying, as I stated in my first reply is, that we are to hold the president responcible for his actions and to listen to the base.

I honestly don't know how you interpreted it any other way than that.

It seems as if you are more concerned with the beltway concept of "messenging" rather than using common sense as a way to get the president to listen to us.

It's about the people, remember?

[girl gone mad]

83. Do you honestly believe that repeatedly calling someone a "moron" is an effective strategy?

And it's a week before the Republican caucus, not a "weak".

[sabrina 1]

139. 'Messaging'. Is that what politics is all about now?

We don't want 'messaging', that is for political operatives who get paid for their efforts, NOT for the American people. We want facts and truth not obscured by Karl Rove-type 'messaging'. 'Messaging' is a deceptive tactic and sorry if the people are now fed up to the teeth with these political games and are getting in the way of all this 'messaging' and demanding straightforward plain talk from those they elect. It might put some political operatives out of business, but that won't destroy the country imho.

We've had enough 'messaging' and too little direct talk about serious issues from those who are asking for our support.

[CreekDog]

332. are you calling someone "Republican" for not supporting the President's "messaging"?

jeez.

way to win over another voter you probably pushed away several months ago.

[NNN0LHI]

14. The headline reads "Vote Against Obama in Iowa"

[Javaman]

44. so you only read headlines?

that's really sad.

[Whisp]

114. and who will persuade the boner and mr. turtling

to change their minds and act like human beings?

all this angst is way off target. if some would spend all this bile on those cretins instead of the President it might have some sort of positive effect.

[Javaman]

163. I think we spend a lot of bile on the repukes.

I also believe that the president isn't a cult of personality. He's an elected official that has to listen to the people just like any other politican.... Listen to me? Will you! LOL

I almost believed all that about politicians listening to us for a second! LOL

I crack me up.

[Maven]

198. Certainly not the Conciliator-in-Chief.

[dawg]

12. Cenk is calling for a protest vote in Iowa.

He's not advocating support for Republican candidates and he's not advocating *not* voting for Obama in the general election. He's merely espousing a way for those who are digruntled on the left to make their voices heard.

I'm not ready to throw Cenk under the bus.

[ProSense]

16. Here's

"Cenk is calling for a protest vote in Iowa."

...my favorite comment:

I "protest voted" in one Senate primary....I'm now represented by Senator Ron Johnson.

http://www.dailykos.com/comments/1049662/44403925#c47

Cenk is a moron. I wish I could find a strong word.

[boston bean]

21. uncommitted in Iowa won't make Obama not the Dem nominee

unless of course, you are very afraid that un committed can beat Obama...

pretty sad if you ask me. have a little faith.

[ProSense]

24. You know

uncommitted in Iowa won't make Obama not the Dem nominee

unless of course, you are very afraid that un committed can beat Obama...

pretty sad if you ask me. have a little faith.

...what's sad: the vultures who get their kicks off people like Cenk. His post has nothing to do with a protest vote and everything to do with his anti-Obama agenda.

<...>

I follow politics for a living; I'm not unaware of how hideous the Republican choices are. But that doesn't mean that we should pretend that President Obama has been brilliant because we're scared of the big, bad Republicans. That would be fundamentally dishonest.

And to be honest, I'm really disappointed that he does not have a primary opponent. This country is dying for someone who is going to take on the establishment. Who is that going to be on our side - Barack Obama? On that, I know whether to laugh or cry. Every time I think about the idea that President Obama might be against the establishment, I laugh and laugh and laugh. There is never been a guy who was this enamored with the establishment. If he had wrestling nickname it would be The Establishment.

The guy who appointed Tim Geithner, Ben Bernanke, Larry Summers, Rahm Emanuel and Bill Daley (and a list of hundreds of others, including two new Fed appointments, one of which is a Republican who worked for the Carlyle Group) is not a guy who is interested in changing the system at all. Change was a cutesy slogan he used to trick us into thinking he was on our side.

http://www.dailykos.com/story/2011/12/29/1049662/-Vote-Against-Obama-in-Iowa?via=siderecent

[dawg]

29. People would do better to try and understand their opponents on the left.

Listening is better than spewing propaganda, or counter-propaganda from your point of view. People have legitimate grievances against the President. Cenk is not entirely wrong here.

There are two main issues in play here: the direction of the country, and the direction of the Democratic Party.

Re-electing President Obama is essential if we are to move the country leftward (or at least keep it from lurching rightward).

But there are many among us who feel that the Democratic Party itself is too far to the right, too captive by corporate donations and wealthy special interest groups. What are those people supposed to do? Just shut up and get with the program?

[theaocp]

32. You're arguing with Prosense.

As Barney Frank said, it's like trying to argue with a table leg. His mind is made up, already.

[ProSense]

42. Moronic! n/t

[theaocp]

47. Very clever.

Have a good Thursday. I know I will.

[ProSense]

51. Yeah,

"Have a good Thursday. I know I will."

...I will too, and the comment was still moronic.

[U4ikLefty]

205. Stop shouting at the mirror.

Oh, yeah welcome to my list.

Bye

[ProSense]

252. Cenk?

[truebrit71]

285. Amen to that!!!

[ProSense]

38. I

People would do better to try and understand their opponents on the left.

Listening is better than spewing propaganda, or counter-propaganda from your point of view. People have legitimate grievances against the President. Cenk is not entirely wrong here.

There are two main issues in play here: the direction of the country, and the direction of the Democratic Party.

...see your point.

Cenk: "Change was a cutesy slogan he used to trick us into thinking he was on our side... The agenda of the president sucks and is deeply Republican."

I think I understand Cenk: He's a moron.

[dawg]

55. He's a pundit, so naturally his words are over the top, but ...

Who of us in 2008 thought the Bush tax cuts would have been extended? All Congress had to do was nothing.

It was doubtful the cuts would have been extended even had McCain won the election. Without 51 Republican votes in the Senate, an extension would have been impossible without some Democratic votes.

I'm an investor. I watched in horror as the world economy nearly unraveled in 2008. It was a historic thing, like Pearl Harbor or 9-11 - something I had previously thought was not possible in my lifetime. And I'm so very underwhelmed by the President's response. It has very much been Republican-lite, and literally nothing has been done to prevent another such crisis from taking place within a few short years of now. It's debatable how much more change the President could actually have accomplished in regulating Wall Street, but he certainly could have done more to advocate such changes.

Look at his appointments. He rolled over Bush's Secretary of Defense. He might as well have rolled over Paulson as Treasury Secretary - Hell Paulson might have done a better job than Geithner. I've seen some argue that these appointments don't matter and that cabinet secretaries are "number crunchers" who don't make policy. Yeah, right.

Cenk is over the top. He's a little hysterical.

But a moron he is not.

[ProSense]

62. Really?

He's a pundit, so naturally his words are over the top, but ...


Who of us in 2008 thought the Bush tax cuts would have been extended? All Congress had to do was nothing.

It was doubtful the cuts would have been extended even had McCain won the election. Without 51 votes in the Senate, and extension would have been impossible without some Democratic votes.

I'm an investor. I watched in horror as the world economy nearly unraveled in 2008. It was a historic thing, like Pearl Harbor or 9-11 - something I had previously thought was not possible in my lifetime. And I'm so very underwhelmed by the President's response. It has very much been Republican-lite, and literally nothing has been done to prevent another such crisis from taking place within a few short years of now. It's debatable how much more change the President could actually have accomplished in regulating Wall Street, but he certainly could have done more to advocate such changes.

Look at his appointments. He rolled over Bush's Secretary of Defense. He might as well have rolled over Paulson as Treasury Secretary - Hell Paulson might have done a better job than Geithner. I've seen some argue that these appointments don't matter and that cabinet secretaries are "number crunchers" who don't make policy. Yeah, right.

A vote to extend the Bush tax cuts that was the result of negotiating to get Republican support in the Senate to extend unemployment for a year, the ETIC, Medicaid expanded funding, and other aid for poor and middle-class Americans is cause to vote against the President?

In 2008, most of people didn't believe health care reform would pass and DADT would be repealed.

Cent is over the top. He's a little hysterical.

But a moron he is not.

No, he's a moron.

[dawg]

78. Political brinksmanship is a game the President must be prepared to play.

Would the Republicans really have blocked unemployment benefits just to protect tax cuts for the wealthiest? We'll never know for sure since the issue was never pressed.

But it certainly should have been shouted from the rooftops that they were willing to do so.

Personally, I think they would have been forced to cave. It would have been too politically unpopular for them to have done otherwise.

Look at the recent situation with their obstructionism with regard to the payroll tax cuts. When push came to shove, they caved. I think the Democrats handled this one much better.

Is any of this cause to vote against the President? Not in a general election, no. But if I think he needs to move further left on economic issues, it's my duty to express those feelings any way I can. Especially since I think a move leftward would not only be good for the country, it would also be good for the Democratic party's long-term electoral prospects.

[ProSense]

93. Yeah

"Political brinksmanship is a game the President must be prepared to play.

Would the Republicans really have blocked unemployment benefits just to protect tax cuts for the wealthiest? We'll never know for sure since the issue was never pressed."

...I'm fairly certain everyone, including Cenk. know how to play it better than Obama.

You see, they would have let all the aid expire, and then negotiated with a Republican House majority to expand it.

"Look at the recent situation with their obstructionism with regard to the payroll tax cuts. When push came to shove, they caved. I think the Democrats handled this one much better."

Fascinating! How on earth did that happen? Could it be that the Republicans had nothing left in their arsenal, that the President let them exhaust all their options? They lost the debt ceiling debate to a trigger they didn't want.

Last year the President said it would be a fight he would welcome. His comment was met with: He'll cave.

He didn't, and now it's being used as an example of not caving. Fascinating!

[dawg]

100. I'm sorry, I must be too much of a red to understand what you just said there.

To be clear, I'm praising Obama for the way he and Congressional Dems handled this recent confrontation with the Republicans over the payroll tax cuts. To me, it proves that the Republicans will respond to pressure.

I'm also criticizing the way the tax-cut extensions were handled. I would have hated it had those benefits been allowed to expire, but that may have been prefrerable to what actually happened. It would, of course, have caused severe pain for lots of people. But the budget cuts that are being debated for deficit reduction purposes will also cause lots of pain.

And in the end, they got two years of tax cut extensions for one year of benefits. And we didn't even get a debt-limit increase as part of that deal. So, no, this was not handled well by the administration.

I actually think the President has been moving in my direction for the last six months or so. I don't know if loudmouths like Cenk or Paul Krugman or Robert Reich had anything to do with that or not. But just in case they did, I hope they continue speaking out.

[ProSense]

104. Well,

I actually think the President has been moving in my direction for the last six months or so. I don't know if loudmouths like Cenk or Paul Krugman or Rober Reich had anything to do with that or not. But just in case they did, I hope they continue speaking out.

...I think Krugman and Reich's opinions are valuable, even when I disagree with them. They are not "loudmouths," but Cenk is a moron who should never be mentioned in the same sentence with them.

[dawg]

108. Well, then that's our biggest disagreement.

I think Cenk is a smart guy, and basically well-intentioned. I certainly don't agree with everything he says, but I can ususally at least see where he is coming from.

I think Cenk's experience at MSNBC has radicalized him to some extent. I think he very much feels he was "silenced" because he dared to speak out against mainstream Dems. And whether that is true or not, I can understand the way he feels.

[ProSense]

113. Well,

I think Cenk is a smart guy, and basically well-intentioned. I certainly don't agree with everything he says, but I can ususally at least see where he is coming from.

I think Cenk's experience at MSNBC has radicalized him to some extent. I think he very much feels he was "silenced" because he dared to speak out against mainstream Dems. And whether that is true or not, I can understand the way he feels.

...I think he's an opportunist who is confused. Anyone trying to compare Reagan favorably to Obama isn't all there. "Radicalized"? Cenk still supports some Republicans, and he certainly isn't a progressive radical.

It's almost certain that this latest anti-Obama rant was an act of desperation and not "smart," especially for someone desperate for an audience. He isn't winning any friends, and in fact is losing many.

[dawg]

121. I think if he was desperate for an audience, he would have stayed at MSNBC ...

and done what he was told.

[treestar]

60. The left never listens either

The left seems to feel so entitled. Why not listen to your 'opponents' in the middle, then?

[dawg]

69. I can only speak for myself, and I think I do listen.

I think the ACA was the best change to the U.S. healthcare system since the creation of Medicaid. I would have preferred a public option, and I think the President should have tried harder to make that argument, but the legislation we finally got is historic and will help lots of people. The President deserves lots of praise for this.

Likewise, I think arguments from the left that the payroll tax cut somehow endangers Social Security are spurious. The payroll tax cuts are all about short-term stimulus to the economy and they are funded from the general fund.

This President oversaw the end of don't ask don't tell, and he handled the situation masterfully.

I try to give credit where credit is due. But there needs to be more understanding on both sides, and I hope that eventually happens. Fracturing of the Democratic Party would be a disaster, but it will take understanding on both sides in order to prevent that.

[hfojvt]

52. What Senate primary was there for Feingold?

That comment does not make any sense.

[ProSense]

76. Are you having fun in your fact-free world?

You seem intent to focus on me. Why?

[Javaman]

43. +1 nt

[Spazito]

15. I never cared for him...

He would go on a rant against something only to completely reverse himself on the same issue very shortly after all the while pretending he never ranted in the first place.

He can't quite decide which he dislikes more, Republicans or Democrats, imo.

[theaocp]

35. Apparently, you know nothing about Cenk.

He never pretends he didn't rant about something in the aftermath.

[Spazito]

65. Ummm, yeah, I do, I watched him do the rant one day....

and completely reverse his opinion the next without any acknowledgment he had ranted on the other side the day before. After that, I stopped watching him.

He is a talking head who, not unlike those on CNN, go for the ratings instead of discussing issues using facts and reason.

You may well like that, I do not.

[theaocp]

68. I'd love to follow this up.

He's not a monday-morning quarterback. You said you watched two shows and that was enough, yes? Perhaps a larger sample size would help with your understanding. Cheers.

[Spazito]

75. LOL, thanks but no thanks,

I have watched the odd clip on DU and, gosh, same Cenk, nothing different from when I watched those two shows originally.

You and I have a different take on him, both of us entitled to our opinion.

Cheers to you.

[theaocp]

79. No worries.

However, you can't say he doesn't correct himself without actually watching/reading his work. At least, you can't do so honestly.

[Spazito]

84. LOL, calling me dishonest...

doesn't make me so. Keep trying, tho, it is amusing in a Cenk kind of way.

[theaocp]

88. LOL, you're right, I am apparently rubber and you're glue.

What rot. Your evidence for your opinion of Cenk is sorely lacking, but you're still willing to forge your opinion anyway. However, that's a bridge too far. Your mind is made up. How myopic.

[Tierra_y_Libertad]

18. So? It's a primary and he's "working within the system" as the moderates advise us to do.

[MineralMan]

22. Cenk is an Asshat. nt

[Iggo]

23. I voted "against Obama" in the last primary.

(I actually voted "for" someone else, but let's use the language of the headline.)

And if the same guy was running again, I'd vote "against Obama" in the coming primary.

What's the big deal? How did it hurt the Democratic nominee in the general election then, and how would it hurt him now?

[bahrbearian]

27. Hey, don't muddy the water with Facts.

[ProSense]

31. Yeah,

I voted "against Obama" in the last primary.

And if the same guy was running again, I'd vote "against Obama" in the coming primary.

What's the big deal? How did it hurt the Democratic nominee in the general election then, and how would it hurt him now?

...look at all the prominent Democrats lining up to primary Obama. There's still hope for Hillary.

I mean, Cenk is only doing this in the best interest of Democrats and democracy.

How about a vote of no confidence against Obama based on his bullshit assertions?

[theaocp]

40. This appears to be a vote of no confidence.

I recommend clapping louder. You might be heard.

[MilesColtrane]

107. "how would it hurt him now?"

Another question you have to ask, how would it "move him left"?

[JustAnotherGen]

26. No calling out

Of Senators in Washington that stand with a D next to their name. . .

[treestar]

64. Or Republicans

IMO the PL just wishes they had no power, and treats President Obama as if the Republicans had no power.

[bigtree]

30. this is when the opposition becomes a threat

. . .to the very goals they claim to support. Undermining the Democratic nominee is just foolishness, given that the only viable alternative is the republican candidate.

I'll strongly oppose ANYONE who advocates defeating our Democratic nominee. There's no high principle in undermining President Obama's campaign for re-election. There's nothing to be gained and much to lose, in that endeavor.

But, it's a primary and he can do any futile thing he wants.

[JoePhilly]

33. Poor Cenk ... "ReformedRepublican" ... now "Born Again Liberal"

[theaocp]

45. The spectrum of what defined a Republican has shifted.

Not Cenk.

[Javaman]

46. read #12.

it's glaringly apparent you didn't read the article.

[JoePhilly]

189. I read it.

And I've listened to Cenk plenty.

His goal is EYEBALLS.

[fascisthunter]

315. and Democrats used to be to the left

but now they are just like the republicans 20 years ago.

[LiberalAndProud]

34. I hope this doesn't get a lot of traction.

While we can argue that trying to send a message to Obama (not good enough) has merit, I think of the perception this would create in the minds of the greater voting public. In the General, perception is everything. It seems akin to painting a target on Obama's chest and inviting the other party to take aim.

I am glad that Cenk is saying aloud what many are thinking, but the possible ramifications of this action are frightening.

[ProSense]

71. Well,

"I hope this doesn't get a lot of traction...am glad that Cenk is saying aloud what many are thinking, but the possible ramifications of this action are frightening."

...he posted it at HuffPo:

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/cenk-uygur/vote-against-obama-in-iow_b_1174314.html

Maximum effect!

[LiberalAndProud]

118. And you posted it here.

I wonder how many in the Iowa caucus will read it, and if they read it if they will be swayed. I doubt that Cenk has all that much power yet. Sadly, he just doesn't carry the kind of clout that Limbaugh wields.

[abelenkpe]

36. I like Cenk but think he and others are offbase

Focusing their anger on Obama vs congress. Jesus could have been elected last time and he would have done no better dealing with conservadems that vote with republicans and republicans that have been he'll bent on obstruction to the point that they rail and vot against policies they once endorsed. Republicans willingness to throw the entire world economy into turmoil and punish the working class in order to discredit and thwart a democratic administration is disgusting. But what do we do? Focus our anger on Obama instead of concentrating on winning back congress and getting rid of conservadems.

Not that I'm not disappointed with Obamas appointments and centrism just think it's easier to push him to the left with a more liberal congress than it would be to push say any of the ignorant lunatics the right is running for office.

[A Simple Game]

184. Please reread what you wrote.

"Jesus could have been elected last time and he would have done no better dealing with conservadems that vote with republicans and republicans that have been he'll bent on obstruction to the point that they rail and vot against policies they once endorsed."

I doubt Jesus would have advocated for an old Republican health plan. I'm sure he would have kept single payer on the table for at least the first day.

And why are so many on this board happy that our Democratic President got a Republican health plan passed?

At least we don't have to hear about the multi-dimensional chess anymore.

[abelenkpe]

186. You're right he would have pushed to keep

Single payer in play. I am not OK with HCR. It was a fucking joke. Today families are still vulnerable to going bankrupt simply because they were unlucky enough to have one member develop a serious illness even if they do have healthcare. Healthcare costs are still outrageous. But no one would have been able to get that through this congress. Am I OK with that? No I'm pissed off and disappointed. At congress. We need to elect more progressive and liberal people to congress. That is the entire point.

[Zorra]

49. Here's the Primary Calendar for 2012

http://frontloading.blogspot.com/p/2012-presidential-primary-calendar.html

[Bobbie Jo]

53. Cenk is over at Daily Kos

Trolling for relevance and looking for his next gig.

[Tarheel_Dem]

54. Cenk's a loser. I mean, he's on a network that reaches 10's of homes, nationwide.

This is his attempt at PR. He's hoping to use Obama bashing to raise his own insignifcant profile. I'll bet we'd all be pretty surprised at who the professional left takes monies from. Afterall, these are tough times for some, and they have to make a living too, and thanks to our wonderful USSC & Citizens United, there's lots of untraceable cash flowing to anyone willing to help take down this president, and indeed, the Democratic Party.

[theaocp]

56. As long as we're speculating,

T_D, when did you stop beating your loved ones?

[Tarheel_Dem]

66. I'll stop beating them when Cenk gives back his Koch Bros. check.

[Tarheel_Dem]

85. Yours is a "personal attack", which will likely be hidden. Mine was an attack on a public figure.

See the difference? You've attacked me (personally) twice now. Two hidden posts in one thread might not be good for you.

[theaocp]

91. Alert away. n/t

[Tarheel_Dem]

92. Nope, I won't do it because I like folks to see how thin skinned Cenk loyalists are.

In the face of criticism, they go personal, cuz they got nothing else.

[theaocp]

94. Right.

The usual suspects really need to have their minds changed. You guys are hilarious.

[Tarheel_Dem]

101. "usual suspects". "You guys". You just can't stop, can you?

[LanternWaste]

143. The high standard we place on ourselves...

In other words, your vulgarity is better than his vulgarity.

It seems the standard we hold others to is rarely met by our own selves.

But in the end, I imagine this too will be justified and rationalized, which may not be good for anyone...

[Tarheel_Dem]

149. You mean like the "vulgarity" constantly aimed at the president? Is Cenk off limits?

I know DU has some sacred cows, but I wasn't informed that Cenk was one of them. Since I never attacked the poster in question, I'm not sure why I'm being charged with "vulgarity", but now that you've put in your two cents, I hope you feel better.

[girl gone mad]

116. He's a YouTube success story, though.

Don't let your hatred blind you.

[Tarheel_Dem]

117. !

[girl gone mad]

303. I take it you don't like YouTube?

It confuses my grandparents, too.

[sabrina 1]

145. So why is anyone worried about him then?

Hilarious how people freak out over what someone they say is so irrelevant.

[slay]

183. And you're a hater it seems

n/t

[Tarheel_Dem]

230. Help! I'm under attack! Cenk's ENTIRE viewing audience has swooped down upon me!

[slay]

232. If this is the way you wish to conduct yourself on this site I have genuine pity for you

n/t

[Tarheel_Dem]

240. Your self appointed board monitor status notwithstanding, save your pity for Cenk!

His fifteen minutes are just about up. I can almost guarantee it! But he can take comfort in the fact that he'll walk away a fairly wealthy man. Stealth Republicans have it like that, just ask Arianna & Jane HamPster.

[slay]

244. you know what - forget it

sadly you're not worth the effort - it's like talking to a wall. goodbye.

[Tarheel_Dem]

248. Well don't go away mad.

[Number23]

299. Hey. You know you wanted to say

"Don't go away mad but PLEASE GOD just go away."

[Tarheel_Dem]

304. #23, I was trying to be nice. Now, you went & spoiled it.

[Number23]

235. That's pretty damn funny, actually

Cenk's ENTIRE viewing audience has swooped down upon me!

Tee hee...

[Tarheel_Dem]

242. I had four very angry responses. Count 'em FOUR (4)! I was pretty scared there for a minute.

[slay]

245. Way to win fellow DU members over - by mocking them and acting like a jerk

i'm glad yall are showing your true colors for everyone to see though.

[Tarheel_Dem]

249. I have absolutely no interest in trying to "win you over". Quite honestly, like you said....

"you're not worth the effort". Sound familiar? And since you've devolved into the personal, I think it best we put each other on Ignore, don't you?

[MjolnirTime]

57. He used to be a Repuke. Are you surprised?

[Tarheel_Dem]

67. That's my biggest problem with Cenk, Ed & Arianna. How does one go from hard right...

to liberal activist icon without taking a breath? Answer: ($$$$$$)

[Bucky]

153. Oh, lordy, you think people become progressive for the money?

Cenk's been running progressive radio/internet shows for about 15 years. His conversion was in his late 20s, when he got out of college & into the real world. If you're intent on rejecting the opinions of anyone who ever used to be a Republican, you just disqualified Hillary Clinton, too. You might as well set up a committee on Un-Democratic Activities and ask people "are you now or have you ever been a member of the Republican Party?" like an alternative universe Joe McCarthy.

And "without taking a breath"?---sheesh, you might want to find out a few facts before typing in your opinions.

[TheKentuckian]

193. The present Democratic SoS was a Goldwater Girl

Many Obama fans also were Republicans as are many of his initiatives.

[JTFrog]

59. No surprise from a guy who voted for Bush.

[theaocp]

63. At least be honest about which one.

It's the least you could do.

[JTFrog]

74. What difference does it make?

Because of Bush I we got Bush II.

And he tried to foist Dole on us too.

Nice progressive liberal roots.

[theaocp]

77. Clarification is a good thing.

That's all. Mexed missages are very confusing.

[toddaa]

61. Technically, you don't vote in a caucus

Making some noise in the rubberstamp process of Obama's nomination sounds like fun. I was planning on staying home next week, but you just gave me a reason to go. Thanks for posting.

[jenmito]

73. He sarcastically uses the phrase "the big, bad Republicans" as if they're not so bad. Let's see how

he feels if/when the Repubs. are in full control of the government.

[ProSense]

82. Cenk

"He sarcastically uses the phrase 'the big, bad Republicans' as if they're not so bad."

...doesn't want Obama to be seen as a better President than his hero Reagan. Last year he wrote a diary claiming Obama was to the far right of Reagan.

[jenmito]

90. I bet you're right...

I saw him on MSNBC SAY that Obama is to the right of Reagan. He has a warped sense of reality. I can't believe some DUers agree with him.

[Major Hogwash]

86. Cenk worked on Sphincter's campaign in Pennsylvania.

Back when Arlen, the "Magic Bullet Man", was running for re-election a few election cycles ago.

It's obvious that Cenk's political compass is broke.

[ProSense]

95. The anti-Obama camp:

People pining for Hillary (and this is not the majority of Hillary supporters), RW libertarians and Republicans.

"It's obvious that Cenk's political compass is broke."

True of all of the above.

[jenmito]

98. I don't know how he can do these things and still have the full support

of some Dems. here and in the "real" world. They must worship him and think he can do no wrong. You know-just like some people say about us Obama supporters.

[Major Hogwash]

80. As it turns out, The Young Turks are just The Young Jerks.

Now you know why MSNBC canned him.

[CakeGrrl]

81. The Professional "Left" - GOP (ex) shills in disguise.

Their histories and associations speak for themselves.

[fascisthunter]

124. Actually, I think that is true of you conservative dems

[phleshdef]

96. This is Cenk having a little fit because Dem voters have ultimately ignored anti-Obama drama magnets

...like himself. Democrats largely do not care what he thinks in regard to who we should run.

The primaries are basically about to begin, there are no real challengers. The Democratic party at large was not/is not interested in nominating anyone else. And by the Democratic party, I mean the actual voters who are affiliated with the party. We largely don't give 2 shits what Cenk and other professional contrarians wanted this year. We all but ignored any calls for a primary challenger. We just weren't interested in it. We want to run Obama again and win him a second term. We are proud of much of what he has done, we are forgiving of the things he didn't get accomplished and we are willing to stand behind him and give him time to accomplish more.

Thats what it boils down to. Obama will be the Democratic nominee and there isn't a god damn thing Cenk or any other foolish, pseudoprogressive can do about it. If you don't like it, there are other parties out there. Go join one. The Democratic party at large is behind Barack Obama for 2012. Thats the way its going to be. Deal with it.

[Tarheel_Dem]

103. "Dem voters have ultimately ignored anti-Obama drama magnets like himself"

Summed up perfectly.

[book_worm]

97. he can call for it all he wants but it won't happen. Obama is going to win the caucus

on the democratic side and uncommitted will not.

[MilesColtrane]

102. Cenk never met a hyperbole he didn't like.

I've tried to watching his webcasts before and his presentation gets on my nerves.

His suggestion to vote "uncommitted" is really kind of pointless.

[frazzled]

105. Most of these ex-Republicans have the same problem with ideology

They made stupendously bad choices earlier, probably out of some ideological zeal. They get "disappointed" and jump ship to the other side, where their new-found ideological zeal (in the opposite direction, go figure) also fails to live up to the complexities of reality, and they get "disappointed" again.

Actually, what they seem to be (whether Cenk, Arianna, Sullivan, sometimes Kos, and all the others) is oppositional. They keep seeking flaws in their edenic dreams, something to oppose.

[Whisp]

111. another Clown Car filling up

and Cenk is the leader of the moment.

This is all show for attention. Does he really expect that the vast majority of Democrats that support the President will listen to Cenky and change their minds to let the Repuglicans in? What the fuck is this bozo smoking?

Cenk - the new guy with the biggest, floppiest shoes in town.

[Motown_Johnny]

120. just as Rimjob thinks Romney is a liberal

Cenk's point of view is simply insane

[fascisthunter]

123. maybe if you all keep posting stupid accusations, new readers will believe you

[Motown_Johnny]

134. Why is it any different?

Rimjob is so far out on one extreme that he thinks Romney is a liberal.

Cenk is so far out on the other extreme he thinks Obama is a Republican.


It is simply a mirror image of the same lunacy.

[treestar]

141. Yes, it is

Dizzying. Obama is a Marxist and a Republican and you can hear both in the same day!

[fascisthunter]

122. Vee Must Cleanse Zee left oaf all critics oaf Obama

he's too honest for you...

[Major Hogwash]

128. Hahahahaha!!!!

That's hillaryous!!

[fascisthunter]

160. how old are you conservos, 12?

[Major Hogwash]

176. I'm a 56-year old liberal.

Which proves that you can't make a point with me.

[ProSense]

133. Vee

"Vee Must Cleanse Zee left oaf all critics oaf Obama"

...must pretend those who disagree with idiotic tripe are Nazi fascist trying to shutdown criticism of Obama.

Want to agree with Cenk? Try doing it without the lame innuendo.

[MineralMan]

125. Kick to make a point.

[flamingdem]

132. Cenk = Moran

I wonder if he's at all sincere.

[DesMoinesDem]

135. Cenk = standing up for real progressive positions. Obama, not so much.

p.s. Good to see you back at work, ProSense! I'm glad they didn't make you work the holiday!

[ProSense]

136. Well,

Cenk = standing up for real progressive positions. Obama, not so much.

p.s. Good to see you back at work, ProSense! I'm glad they didn't make you work the holiday!

...it's clear to see why you're a Cenk fan!

Did you also vote for Reagan and campaign for Republicans?

[DesMoinesDem]

138. No I didn't support them,

and I also don't support indefinite detention, assassinating American citizens, bank bailouts, and drone killing. But Obama sure does, and knowing you that means you do too.

[ProSense]

140. Here's

"No I didn't support them, and I also don't support indefinite detention, assassinating American citizens, bank bailouts, and drone killing. But Obama sure does, and knowing you that means you do too"

a clue: http://www.democraticunderground.com/100285511

Oh, and what can I say about Cenk that hasn't already been said:

Cenk - Thanks for finally pulling the republican
sheet off your pretend "progressive" Democrat, George Bush voting head. Democrats should have known that the years long vitriol that you've spewed against the President would ultimately lead to your screed for people to...Vote Against Obama. You sound like those fake Democrats who appear on Fox News and write stupid articles about how the President should drop out & folks should write in Hillary's name...."for the sake of all that is Democrat"...in your case, "progressive!"

Tell the truth, this was part of the plan all along, wasn't it? Pretend to be a converted republican, reel Dems in with your faux progressiveness, hoist yourself up as a so-called progressive voice, rake in the friggin' dough, and tell Dems to essentially vote Republican by not voting for the Democrat (or try to hobble him to depress voter turnout when it matters)...hmmm, sounds much like Arianna, dahling.

Luckily your following is not big enough to really matter, I guess if it was you'd still have a show on MSNBC, whose following 'aint that big either. Maybe this crap of yours will gin up, what, another 10-11 viewers for you...maybe that was your goal in writing this b.s., try to get more viewers for your crappy (I'm sure) show. Good luck, you republican hack.

http://www.dailykos.com/comments/1049662/44407584#c948

Nailed!

[Tarheel_Dem]

151. "Good luck, you republican hack"

[fascisthunter]

161. This poster gets special treatment around here

[ProSense]

175. Yeah,

"This poster gets special treatment around here"

...I mean, what would I do without protection from you?

[bluestate10]

203. Watchout Prosense. Some here want a Michael Corleone kiss for you. :-))) nt.

[fascisthunter]

307. speshu-lllll

[ProSense]

174. Which

Looks like a bunch on name calling to me, but that seems to be your style. You aren't able to actually support positions or principles because you always have to support Obama. Look at your responses to my post. You attack me and Cenk, but you never once have addressed any policy position. You aren't a progressive, you are an Obama supporter, regardless of what positions that entails. That would be sad... if you weren't being paid to do it.

...one of "policy position" pulled from Cenk's piece should I address:

"If he had wrestling nickname it would be The Establishment."

"Change was a cutesy slogan he used to trick us into thinking he was on our side."

"The agenda of the president sucks and is deeply Republican. "

You aren't a progressive, you're a Cenk fan who doesn't like Obama. Your response is typical of the disingenous attempts to portray reaction to innuendo as an "attack"

From your first comment: "p.s. Good to see you back at work, ProSense!"

My response wasn't an attack, go read it again.

[Ikonoklast]

150. Cenk = 'Former' Republican = Fifth Columnist

I trust 'former' Republicans calling for voting against Democrats in office, for whatever reason, as not on our side on goddam bit.

[DesMoinesDem]

155. Someday you should learn to look past the person

and look at what is being said.

[Ikonoklast]

157. Someday you'll realize a really effective political strategy is to

attack political enemies from oblique angles.

One way is pretending to be on the same side as the person you are trying to sabotage.

The best way to do that is under the 'constructive criticism' angle.



But it doesn't work if criticism is the only angle you got.

Cenk has one angle.

Someday you'll realize that the enemy of my enemy can still be an enemy.


This is one way of getting people to vote against Obama, even if only symbolically.

Now he has you thinking, "That was easy. I CAN vote against Obama, and nothing bad happened."

There are wheels within wheels, and Cenk knows how to get them spinning.

[CherylK]

156. +1!!!

[slay]

182. Indeed

and good call there - on all of it.

[LanternWaste]

142. I guess it's easier and much more convenient

I guess it's easier and much more convenient to minimize or deny one's own convictions and vote for who the party wants us to...

However, I'm the first to admit these seem to be the days when a higher priority should be placed on the party than on our own consciences, or so I'm told.

[ProSense]

144. Why

"However, I'm the first to admit these seem to be the days when a higher priority should be placed on the party than on our own consciences, or so I'm told."

...do people think the Democratic Party is any different from other political parties? The Democratic Party doesn't have anyone shackled. People can vote however they choose to. It's the primary reason Democrats aren't engaged in suppressing voter turnout.

Vote, it's yours and on your conscience.

What I'm not getting is what any of that has to do with pointing out that Cenk is a moron? I mean, read the drivel excerpted from his post.

[LanternWaste]

146. His editorial seems much better thought out

His editorial seems much better thought out, much better written, and much more thought provoking than yours, regardless of whether one may or may not agree with it. Thanks ever so much...

[ProSense]

148. Yeah,

"His editorial seems much better thought out, much better written, and much more thought provoking than yours, regardless of whether one may or may not agree with it."

...imagine the brain power that went into coming up with these gems:

"that doesn't mean that we should pretend that President Obama has been brilliant because we're scared of the big, bad Republicans. "

"If he had wrestling nickname it would be The Establishment."

"Change was a cutesy slogan he used to trick us into thinking he was on our side."

"The agenda of the president sucks and is deeply Republican. "

I not only disagree, I believe strongly that Cenk qualifies as a moron!

[LanternWaste]

152. Almost as much brain power as went into...

Almost as much brain power as went into...

"fact-free screed is simply designed to stir up anti-Obama sentiments..."

The professionalism, the breadth, the scope, and the depth of that alone is mind-boggling (unless of course you believe you should be held to a lower standard of discourse... but that's your call.)

[ProSense]

158. So

Almost as much brain power as went into...

"fact-free screed is simply designed to stir up anti-Obama sentiments..."

...you object to my characterization of Cenk's drivel? I can live with that.

[gulliver]

159. He's a great example of the dynamics of minor league professional leftism.

The worse you are in terms of prospects and media viability, the angrier you are. Cenk (and Glenn Greenwald, etc.) have to be very angry or they would slip into the abyss. They are both about two feet away from selling used cars or telemarketing. No wonder they make so much noise. Expect to see their works "published" on commondreams or truthout any day now.

[tishaLA]

267. oh please don't lump Greenwald in with Cenk

Even when I disagree with Greenwald, at least he has a compelling argument (okay the Ron Paul stuff was the exception that proves the rule). Cenk, on the other hand, is an hysteric who can barely formulate an argument, whose "analysis" is either completely banal or absurd, and whose entire schtick is nietzschean ressentiment writ large as quasi-political melodrama.

[gulliver]

295. I think of Greenwald as a slightly more talented Cenk

Btw, I like the "whose entire schtick is nietzschean ressentiment writ large as quasi-political melodrama." Very pithy.

[Rex]

162. Who cares?

People need a hobby...he is just one person in a sea of personas imo.

[yodermon]

165. David Allen sucking up to said "moron".

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=385x545591

[ProSense]

167. I

"David Allen sucking up to said 'moron'."

...can admire David Allen and still think Cenk is a moron.

[Fantastic Anarchist]

168. I agree with Cenk ...

... make Obama sweat like he's made us sweat. Maybe he'll veer left.

[ProSense]

170. I'm

"I agree with Cenk ..."

...happy that his diary got more than 155 troll ratings, and some of the comments are great.

Still, he'll have his limited audience.

[Fantastic Anarchist]

256. How fantastic that you're glad.

I'm actually treating his betrayal in a more serious manner.

You're glad to play party politics.

I'm not.

Social agitation has always been the impetus for "change" ... not party vanguards or functionaries. The sooner you understand that you are being asked to split infinity, the sooner you'll understand that infinity can't be halved.

[limpyhobbler]

301. but

TYT says they are the largest online news show. I'm not sure how they come up with that factoid. My point being that their audience might not be so limited. The stuff cenk says does have potential to catch fire and cause trouble for obama. If he was just some random loony, I'm guessing this thread never would have been started. It's because Cenk does make some good points and have a pretty large audience that some folks feel the need to tear him down with insults and attempt to discredit him.

Let's not forget who Cenk's audience is. It's a significant bloc of progressives who care more about policy than party, many of whom are willing to consider casting a protest vote if they believe the Democrats do not represent their interests.

Instead of mocking and trying to discredit this one opinion slinger cenk, elected dems should pay more attention and give more power to the progressive bloc inside the democratic party, and give less attention and power to republicans and corporate donors.

The progressive left does feel neglected. It's not just this one guy. That's the real issue. The party "leaders" ought to pay attention.

[girl gone mad]

320. "155 troll ratings"

Walt Starr among them.

Boy, you're in great company at that place, aren't you?

[DeathToTheOil]

169. How did we get to know this guy's name again?

Somebody?

[Hissyspit]

222. For years he has given commentaries

Cutting through every bullshit argument the Republicans tossed out. He brilliantly trashed the Bush administration and supported the Democrats when appropriate. Dozens and dozens of his commentaries were rec'd here to the top of the Greatest Page by hundreds of DUers. He stated things plainly and clearly when no else in the mainstream would. If you have to have this explained to you, then why should anyone take your opinion seriously on the subject?

Cenk is not a moron and he is not a asshat. Self interested? Sure. He STILL said what needed to be said.

[Pisces]

171. Cenk is being dishonest as well as trying to stir up some controversy in hopes of getting some

ratings. Too bad he miscalculated on an election year. Gore better wake up and do something about his talent or else he should
save himself some money and shut down current.

[BlancheSplanchnik]

172. The President whose first action was to IMMEDIATELY end the Global Gag rule

which was killing or maiming millions of women, girls and infants in third world countries..... That was pretty brave, when you consider the fundy jerk off fetus fetishists clambering all over the capital.

screw you Cenk,
"But that doesn't mean that we should pretend that President Obama has been brilliant because we're scared of the big, bad Republicans. That would be fundamentally dishonest."

-----Right, let's open the door for some REAL sick POS's to gain power, because to do otherwise would be fundamentally dishonest.

Riiiiiiight.

I was uncomfortable with him years ago, when I noticed too many T+A vid clips when I looked at his youtube page. I tried to mention it too, but got shot down....seems when the writing on the wall is written in gratuitous soft porn, you are advised against speaking against it for fear of appearing prudish. FUCK that noise...porn is great, in my opinion, when it's in the context of adult consensual sex. But when it oozes into NEWS, marketing, TV shows, and all...... NO!

As Gandhi said, "you can judge a lot about a nation by how it treats its animals", you can learn a lot about a person, nation and etc. by how it treats its WOMEN.

[tavalon]

177. I get that know is the time that all good men get behind their leader and all that,

But some of us have a higher calling - to truth. Sure, I'm going to hold my nose and vote for Obama. That doesn't mean I haven't noticed his extreme shortcomings. Cent has too. A primary challenger this late in the process would likely guarantee a Republican, but yeah, OWS was the only thing keeping his feet to the fire. I don't see Obama doing a 180 this next four years, do you?

[ProSense]

178. Well,

"But some of us have a higher calling - to truth...Cent has too."

OK!

[tavalon]

180. I fucking hate the IPads helpful word changes

But it could't manage to change know to now. Back to sleep now.

[slay]

179. I agree with Cenk

not you.

I could also easily say anyone who blindly follows Obama and refuses to acknowledge he is anything less than perfect - is a moron as well.

[ProSense]

181. Well,

"I agree with Cenk not you."

...I'm crushed, but Cenk is still a moron.

[Roland99]

187. Primary Obama!!

[lillypaddle]

188. Asshat, Asscarrot, Asssweetpotato ...

whatever. Cenk is an Ass.

[woo me with science]

191. The President reaps what he has sown. nt

[Spazito]

192. LOL, looks like Cenk is #1

in the Thursday Worst Diary Competition at KOS!

Gotta love the 'editorial comment' attached to the repost:

"Editor's Note: Written with the sole intention of starting a flame war, inflating his TV ratings, and getting clicks on TYT's website. -- weatherdude"



http://www.dailykos.com/blog/TWC%20Judging

[ProSense]

194. .

[slay]

201. He's #1 in my book

but for different reasons.

[Spazito]

202. You should post that at KOS....

in the Diary that won the Thursday Worst Diary Competition. Just in case you missed it, here's the link:

http://www.dailykos.com/blog/TWC%20Judging

[slay]

207. I don't post at KOS - but I could post it at LeftUnderground

they are open-minded enough to appreciate that one can be progressive and yet not have to tow the Dem party line 24/7.

[Spazito]

211. Hey, go for it, post it there!

"They seek him here,/ They seek him there,/ Those (Cenkies) seek him everywhere./ Is he in heaven,/ Or is he in hell?/ My own elusive Pimpernel."

Sorry but your post reminded me of the Scarlet Pimpernel quote and I just had to post it, with one change, lol.

[slay]

214. No need - someone already did

Obama is just not a good leader - and he's not a progressive. that's why people like Cenk and i have problems with him.

[Spazito]

217. Well, each to their own, it is good we can all meet on a site that...

"...is an online community where politically liberal people can do their part to effect dpolitical and social change by:

Interacting with friendly, like-minded people;
Sharing news and information, free from the corporate media filter;
Participating in lively, thought-provoking discussions;
Helping elect more Democrats to political office at all levels of American government; and
Having fun!"

Helping elect more Democrats to political office at all levels of American government is certainly a goal DUers have in common, right!

[slay]

218. Well, I'm against electing Republicans for sure

but when i have a Dem senator like the HORRIBLE Kay Hagan as my rep here in NC - i don't see how i can possibly vote for her again in 2014. i will vote for my local Dem rep Brad Miller and other local Dems though.

[Spazito]

219. There you go! More commonalities than differences when we take time to ....

converse, virtually speaking! All is good!

[sabrina 1]

204. If that was why he wrote it, he just got what he wanted.

Never fails to amaze me on that board, DK, how people act against their own stated interests. It's always been that way though, at least as far as I can remember. They always assume that someone who has a show is only posting there (only if they disagree with them of course) to get higher ratings for their shows, and then they proceed to give them exactly what they say they wanted. Never mind that most of them got their ratings without any help from DK.

He did get more recs than unrecs though. And I am willing to bet that there are probably threads slamming him. Same old stuff. It used to be fun to watch, now it's just boring and pretictable repetition. Nothing changes over there including their absolute faith that DK has so much influence they can change the course of an election and/or make or break someone's media career.

To test that theory ask the next 50 people you meet how many of them ever heard of DK.

This did remind me to watch Cenk tonight. I hope they are not on vacation.

[slay]

208. Cenk and The Young Turks was new tonight - he addresses the BS "Obama is liberal" poll - Matt Taibbi

is also a guest on the show tonight.

[sabrina 1]

213. Oh, thanks. I could have missed Matt Taibbi, another of my favorites, had it not been for this OP.

There is a silver lining to every cloud after all

[slay]

216. No prob - it was a great show - I even called my parents and told them to watch

good stuff.

[Spazito]

209. I hope you enjoy his evening rant...

I hope he didn't waste it all in his diary, I hope he has a few surprises left for his fans. (Assuming, of course, "they are not on vacation".)

[sabrina 1]

212. I always enjoy Cenk and all the other progressive hosts on TV. There are so few of them.

You don't like progressive TV? And we fought so hard to get it throughout the Bush years.

[Spazito]

215. Yes, I like progressive TV very much which is why I don't watch Cenk...

I don't find him particularly progressive. My preferences are toward Rachel Maddow and, on Current, Keith Olbermann. I think they ARE progressive, wouldn't you agree?

[sabrina 1]

220. Definitely agree. Cenk is very progressive also. I really do not think it is progressive at all to

turn on people simply because they criticize an elected official. I always associated that more with non-progressives. Cenk was hugely popular when he was going after Bush. As were many of those now being trashed by some on the 'left'. I don't get that.

I think all elected officials should be held accountable for their decisions. Otherwise we end up with a government that doesn't function for the best interests of the people. Which is what we now have. Each party knows, or did up til now, that they don't have to do anything to keep their base happy, that their loyal supporters will cover for them no matter what they do.

I guess that is changing now. A little late, but better late than never. Eg, I was very happy to see President Obama finally sounding like a Progressive and actually getting a little tough on Republicans for a change, AFTER it became apparent that the people have had enough of this 'bipartisanship' nonsense, and yes, they DO have somewhere else to go. This is good citizenship. Kudos to the people. They made sure they were heard this time.

His speech, which was one of the best he's delivered since he was elected, sounded like a script from OWS. That is democracy at work. He did not listen to those who elected him until he realized he was losing them. Now, let's see if the words turn into action. I hope so.

But surely you do not believe that the people should not use their power, as Cenk was suggesting, to influence our elected officials to do what is right for the country?

[Spazito]

221. Well, your interpretation of what Cenk was 'suggesting' and mine seem to differ...

you see him as "suggesting... in order to influence elected officials to do what is right for the country" whereas I see him as urging Dems in Iowa to vote "uncommitted" instead of for President Obama which, imo, is a bad idea, actually a rather silly one which will NOT do anything to "influence our elected leaders to do what is right for the country" at all. See, we differ on that.

I am glad to see you give credit to President Obama even though, imo, it smacks somewhat of damning with faint praise but, hey, whatever it takes to makes sure the Democratic nominee, Barack Obama, is elected for a second term works for me.

[Number23]

237. That might be a bit bigger than just the Thursday Worst Diary

That may be a top ten contender for worst diary of the year.

Props to the folks at Kos that appear to be much more savvy than the handful of DUers that are trying their hardest to shut Prosense down for stating the obvious.

[Spazito]

287. LOL! I wonder if they have a "Greatest Hits of 2011 -best and worst"...

If so, that one may well make the top 10 in the worst category, it was pretty bad!

[penguin7]

195. Isn't Dailykos the place that trashed Kucinich and

wanted Edwards for 2008?

It seems to me that Dailykos is more part of the problem than the solution.

[WillyT]

196. I Tend To Agree With Cenk...

[bluestate10]

200. I have no respect for Cenk.

When he had the show on MSNBC, I watched time after time lay down like a lapdog for republican mouthbreathers that came on to his show. He never attacked their lies. Al Sharpton, despite his drawbacks, is a far stronger host.

[LoisB]

206. Cenk is an idiot

I had never seen him on MSNBC (stopped watching after KO left); tried to watch him on Current but after two shows of naked Obama-bashing and unabashed praise of Ron Paul I couldn't take it any more. He is so obviously trying to ensure that President Obama doesn't get re-elected. I now watch Current only for Keith's show and Vanguard (which is excellent). Keith has been excluded from Current's "analysis" of the 2012 elections. How do you exclude the one person on your network who is the best at covering politics?

[WillyT]

223. TYT Army Is STRONG

[Major Hogwash]

226. smelling.

They have bad breath, too.

I'm series. This is hugh.
Just like Cenk's oversized head.

[WillyT]

229. Damn... You're Still In The 5th Grade, Eh ???

[Major Hogwash]

277. Damn . . . I'm 10 times smarter than you.

And when I was in the 5th grade, horseshit smelled like horseshit.
Just like it does today.
Some things never change.

[fascisthunter]

310. hahaha... I asked about his age too

[NorthCarolina]

269. Yes, these Cenk attack posts

are quite informative indeed. He has the right running scared.

[BklnDem75]

336. If the left do as Cenk suggests

the right will give him nothing but praise. LOL. Running scared my ass.

[TheDirectPath]

224. Cenk still showing his Republican tendencies!

Let us not forget that Cenk 'was' a republican at one time who 'was' pro-life, against affirmative action, worked for a republican congressman, etc. Though he has voted recently Democratic, he cannot find it within himself 'yet' to embrace President Obama. He is now viewed by less, and rightfully replaced by Rev. Al.

[JDPriestly]

225. Cenk makes good points.

I will vote for Obama, but I would dearly love to give Obama cause to rethink the many Republican items on his agenda such as increasing surveillance of Americans, signing the NDAA, not fighting nearly hard enough or soon enough to close Guantanamo, not being up front and open about where the money to pay the mercenaries in Iraq is coming from . . . . and about a zillion other things, especially Geithner, Bernanke, Summers and all his pro-capital, pro-banking friends.

[nadinbrzezinski]

227. Of course you understand that voting uncommitted in the CAUCUS

is the exactly the same as the General Election. In fact this coming tuesday, by your logic, is the general election.

There is more straw over there if you need another strawman.

[ProSense]

233. No

"Of course you understand that voting uncommitted in the CAUCUS

is the exactly the same as the General Election. In fact this coming tuesday, by your logic, is the general election.

There is more straw over there if you need another strawman. "

...that's your logic and the straw is all yours.

[nadinbrzezinski]

243. No dear, you are comparing

a PROTEST vote in a caucus with something that will actually matter in the nominating process.

So try to follow this outside of partisan hackery ok. This is meant to TRY TO SEND a message to DC that not everybody is happy with policies currently in place in DC. Mostly they are quite to the right of the mainstream, and people are tired of the corruption.

When it comes to the nomination process I am betting uncommitted will have no role in it, when all is said and done.

But you knew that, or at least you can pretend otherwise. This happens every election, and I do hope that the discontent is wide enough where DC will actually get the message. But affect the ACTUAL nomination process... that is the strawman you are building.

Oh and it is not working.

Nor are people critical of policies are automatically republicans... that is just another lovely strawman.

Don't worry your "friends" in partisan land who face the same in the other major party accuse those who are critical of wanting to elect democrats and being closet libs... which is quite funny actually.

[ProSense]

247. Um,

"No dear, you are comparing a PROTEST vote in a caucus with something that will actually matter in the nominating process."

..."dear," can you point to the specific comment in the OP comparing "a PROTEST vote in a caucus" to " the nominating process"?

Cenk's idea is moronic, and characterizing it as such has nothing to do with your confused interpretation.

"So try to follow this outside of partisan hackery ok. This is meant to TRY TO SEND a message to DC that not everybody is happy with policies currently in place in DC. Mostly they are quite to the right of the mainstream, and people are tired of the corruption."

Fuck Cenk!

[nadinbrzezinski]

250. Actually dear, let's get this out of your chest

fuck anybody who is critical of the President. That is what you really mean to say... I know that. (And you are not alone... it is quite funny to see party operators on both sides do this... in fact hysterical)

This attitude has a name in political science, it is un-american and undemocratic, with a small d.

It is also dangerous.

Have a good evening, enjoy the straw... I see you will really need a few piles of it.

[ProSense]

251. Actually

fuck anybody who is critical of the President. That is what you really mean to say... I know that. (And you are not alone... it is quite funny to see party operators on both sides do this... in fact hysterical)

...I said what I meant: Fuck Cenk.

This attitude has a name in political science, it is un-american and undemocratic, with a small d.

It is also dangerous.

Have a good evening, enjoy the straw... I see you will really need a few piles of it.

There's a term for making up stuff too: delusional!

[maximusveritas]

228. Not a terrible idea because it helps frame Obama as a moderate

It's hard to argue he's a radical socialist when there is a decent protest vote against him.

[Festivito]

236. And, it frames the current right-wing as extreme -- since they are extremists.

Reagan knew that letting the far right get into the media made himself look like a moderate. The media complied, loving the idea of creating controversy in order to increase viewership.

Although, no Dem with a name could do this without the media killing him/her. I would love to see a Bernie Sanders in a debate with Barrack -- just to see it.

But, we seem the only two on this thread to consider it.

[got root]

231. reminds me of that south park episode...

[Agony]

238. It's a fact!

"The guy who appointed Tim Geithner, Ben Bernanke, Larry Summers, Rahm Emanuel and Bill Daley"

In fact, this tiny little fact is not a tiny little problem...

[thesquanderer]

239. In the middle on this

re:

"Repeat: Anyone who wants to consider the first President to finally enact health care reform...the President who ended the Iraq war...who reregulated the financial industry..."

I do think Obama has done a lot of good things (including some of the ones you mentioned that I did not include in that quote), but I would not hold out those items quoted above as progressive accomplishments.

HCR, while anathema to today's right wing loons, is a moderate Republican plan, as evidenced by its similarities to Romney's MA plan and to some of what Dole proposed before that (and what Gingrich liked). I did not expect a truly progressive transition to single payer, but we didn't get anything remotely close, not even the "public option" or ability to "buy into" medicare at a younger age.

The Iraq war was ended exactly according to the pre-established George W. Bush timetable... and, according to some reports, only because Obama was unsuccessful in trying to find a way to extend it... but either way, no better than what W had already scheduled.

And there have been numerous reports about how the financial "reregulation" is woefully inadequate, and has not even begun to address the "too big to fail" problem.

So no, I do not count those among his "progressive successes." In addition, his record on executive power, government transparency, and civil liberties is, for the most part, no better than the terrible positions of GWB.

I would not call him a Republican, but on balance, I would say he is a moderate-to-right-leaning Democrat, not a progressive one.

[Better Believe It]

241. He called for Iowa Democrats to vote "uncommitted" Now isn't that right?

And what "health care reform" are you writing about? It's probably what progressives call the Health Insurance Industry and Big Pharma Protection Act.

The insurance industry and big pharma love it. They will make billions in new profits. Just what the doctor didn't order.

[JI7]

246. Stupid Fucking Jackass

dind't this fuck use to be a republican. you would think people like him ,Arianna and others would realize things aren't so easy since there are people out there who don't get it. considering their asses were there not too long ago. we aren't talking about when they were kids but fucking adults.

i was always a liberal . so don't bring up the shit about age to me. whether i was 15, 21, 25 etc i was always fighting for liberal issues against fuckers like him who use to be wingnuts.

FUCK HIM

[gateley]

253. If my voting because I'm scared of the Big Bad Republicans is "fundamentally dishonest" -

so be it.

It's not all about ME.

Cenk is hurting himself and others. Brilliant.

[garybeck]

254. I agree with Cenk. Progressives have a right to be disappointed and I'm sick of picking the least

bad option. Even though I probably will again.

[Douglas Carpenter]

255. voting for uncommitted in the caucuses is the most rational alternative for progressives

The alternative of voting for a third party in the general election is way too risky as it could very well contribute to a Republican win. Mounting a credible primary challenge at this point is simply not feasible and could have unfortunate side effects if it were. This is a sensible and practical alternative.

The absence of any strong and critical left-wing critique of the President only strengthens the Republicans’ ability to represent the President as - "as far left as they come". It is very important for the public to realize that President Obama is not the far left socialist that the GOP wants people to believe he is. It is very important for the public to know there is a credible critique of the President's policies coming from the left. The stronger the left-wing critique of the President - the easier it is for the President to present himself as centrist and moderate – and even just as importantly the more to the left the terms “ moderate” and “centrist” are framed.

[JNelson6563]

257. He's supposedly a "former" Rethug

Though he tends to do a lot of good work for them. Ah well, if he helps get in a Rethug then it's not his right to chose that will be endangered, will it?

Julie--who wishes blowhards would take a bit more responsibility

[highprincipleswork]

258. You really might want to examine

You really might want to examine why it is that you get so wound up when someone criticizes this President. I mean, there seems to be plenty to criticize.

Why do you take it so personally?
Why do you feel the need to defend? Defend a record that, to a traditional Democratic point of view, or even from the point of view of what was promised can seem quite indefensible (yes, promised under the duress of the primary process and election process, but promised nonetheless).

Why does it raise up such anger in you?

It does not raise such anger in me. In fact, I can agree with much of what he says.

I am not vaguely but acutely disappointed in this President, in his policies, in his words, in his apparent beliefs, in his tactics, in his principles, in his whole agenda.

I would vote for a more Liberal candidate in a second. For instance, I would vote for Elizabeth Warren.

For some reason President Obama and his handlers don't take into account that a lot of their popularity came from Liberal notions, some borrowed from Hillary, some from the Democratic Party at large. They don't believe that this is a country founded on Liberal values. Heck, we were formed from a revolution, for goodness sakes, so what's so surprising about that.

No, they are content to run just a little bit to the Left of the Other Guy, and when the Other Guy is flat-out crazy in their "conservatism", that puts the whole country in jeopardy.

Cenk. No, I'd rather listen to him than so many other commentators out there. And I find that I often agree with him.

So, who are you to say he cannot say what he says and has no reason to do so?
And again, why do you defend so personally what so many find to be indefensible?

[Tx4obama]

259. Oh good lord !!!

You said: " I would vote for a more Liberal candidate in a second. For instance, I would vote for Elizabeth Warren. "

The only thing Warren has experience with (so far) is financial issues.

There isn't even a list anywhere that I can find regarding her stance on any other issues other than financial ones.

The job of the president involves much more than being an expert on ONE issue.

And in my opinion, voting for someone due to their position on one issue is RIDICULOUS and irresponsible.

Just my two cents

p.s. Let's take a look at her record in four years from now after/if she wins the MA U.S. Senate seat

[highprincipleswork]

329. ok, yeah, and the law, and the concerns of ordinary folks

Perhaps too impassioned, but very willing to take you up on that bet.

Betting she's more legit than this guy who has been such a disappointment.

And fixing our economic system and the way it interacts with the political system and the way it interacts with our military/defense budget and healthcare and etc., can't think of anything more important.

That's my two cents.

[Tx4obama]

330. I like her, but like I said she needs to speak up about where she stands on issues

other than mostly financial ones

Here ya go ....

Warren: http://senate.ontheissues.org/Senate/Elizabeth_Warren.htm

Obama: http://senate.ontheissues.org/Barack_Obama.htm

[JVS]

260. What's the harm?

[limpyhobbler]

261. I like Cenk but he's overly fixated on the president sometimes.

We should spend our time and energy getting progressives elected to congress instead of messing with obama. There are reasons to be disapointed in Obama but Congress is the bigger problem. Progressives ought to start primary challenging some of the DINO's in the house and Senate and/or getting them to pledge to support our issues. The gop has the tea party and grover norquist keeping them in line. Nobody is keeping the Dems in line. That' supposed to be "our" job. That' what Cenk is trying to do, but I'd rather hear him talk more about electing progressives to the House and Senate and not fixate so much on Obama.

[Vestigial_Sister]

263. Where did this phuk-head...

come from? I've never been able to sit and listen to his stammering after seeing him here, linked in videos. Go away cenk-off...

[Sienna86]

266. He's still upset by MSNBC letting him go

I used to watch him occasionally on video but after his poor reaction to being let go of by MSNBC I haven't had the stomach to listen to his tirades. My opinion is that this guy needs to deal with his personal emotions and ego.

[NorthCarolina]

268. This OP proves to me that conservatives fear Cenk, glad to see it! nt

[Better Believe It]

271. Cenk is not a favorite of conservative moderate centrists blue dog Democrats

[ProSense]

273. Tell

"Cenk is not a favorite of conservative moderate centrists blue dog Democrats"

...that to Arlen Specter.

Cenk is a moron.

[ProSense]

272. You know

"This OP proves to me that conservatives fear Cenk, glad to see it!"

...what I've never done: vote for a Republican, not even a Democrat who acts like one.

[deacon_sephiroth]

270. I would hate for you to actually read the article but...

maybe read the article before you go shouting moron from the rooftops, you've clearly missed the boat here. It's about using your power as a voter to send a message. If you don't agree with the message... then don't do it. It's really that simple.

[ProSense]

274. Maybe

"If you don't agree with the message... then don't do it. It's really that simple."

...you missed the entire OP, which in addition to rejecting the message and stating why, concludes that Cenk is a moron.

[WI_DEM]

278. Why repeat it over here?

[dsc]

279. He didn't repeal DADT, Congress did

over and over and over again in debates here you pointed out that only Congress could do that. You can't have it both ways.

[ProSense]

281. Well,

"He didn't repeal DADT, Congress did over and over and over again in debates here you pointed out that only Congress could do that. You can't have it both ways."

...you're free to continue having that debate with yourself. Enjoy!

Don't ask, don't tell' fades away

More than 17 years after a tortured political compromise that left no one happy, “don’t ask, don’t tell” is done.

On Tuesday, President Bill Clinton’s 1993 directive that allowed gays and lesbians to serve in the military without discrimination as long as they stayed in the closet will be formally repealed. The measure had mandated that applicants weren’t to be asked about their sexuality, and it barred military brass from investigating a service member’s sexual orientation without credible evidence.

http://www.politico.com/news/stories/0911/63801.html#ixzz1YP7L1ulU

President Obama's statement
http://www.whitehouse.gov/the-press-office/2011/09/20/statement-president-repeal-dont-ask-dont-tell

[dsc]

291. No you don't get to have it both ways

For months and months you told us, in fully explicit terms, as the President dithered on this that it was all Congress and none him. Congress passed this, yes he helped, but Congress did the work and Congress deserves the credit. Especially under the theories you promoted for months.

[ProSense]

292. So

No you don't get to have it both ways

For months and months you told us, in fully explicit terms, as the President dithered on this that it was all Congress and none him. Congress passed this, yes he helped, but Congress did the work and Congress deserves the credit. Especially under the theories you promoted for months.

...what's your opinion of Cenk?

Oh, and a little civics lesson: Congress passes laws and the President signs them. The President is also responsible for carrying out policy. I can have it both ways.

Seriously, what do you think of Cenk?

[truebrit71]

280. I stand with Cenk...Obama has been a disaster on many, many issues...

...and Cenk calls him out for his failures...Sorry that you think that makes him an asshole because he doesn't find Obama infallible...

[ProSense]

282. Do

"Obama has been a disaster on many, many issues..."

...you have any examples?

[truebrit71]

283. The Environment, Civil Liberties, Health Care, The War(s), Taxes, MMJ, NDAA, LIHEAP...

...you need me to go on..???

[ProSense]

284. Hmmm?

"The Environment, Civil Liberties, Health Care, The War(s), Taxes.......you need me to go on..???"

So a list of generic words are your examples? Here are words about specific policies from the OP, and directed at Cenk:


"Anyone who wants to consider the first President to finally enact health care reform, the President who repealed DADT and ended the ban on gays in the military, the President who ended the Iraq war, who strenghtened the NLRB, who reregulated the financial industry, creating a the first-ever consumer bureau and giving the FDIC new powers, enacting some of the toughest environmental rules in decades, including the first-ever rule on mercury, and appointing two liberal women to the Supreme court...anyone who sees this President as a "deeply Republican" is a moron!"

More details here:

http://www.democraticunderground.com/100219885

http://www.democraticunderground.com/100233108

[truebrit71]

286. That highlighted paragraph is a joke...

..."health care reform"....don't make me laugh..."repealed DADT", nope, Congress did that, "Ended the Iraq War", by leaving thousands of troops in country...some "end"..."re-regulated the financial industry" as previously mentioned that last time you tried laying this line of bullshit down "creating a the first-ever consumer bureau"...with no-one to lead it..."enacting some of the toughest environmental rules in decades, including the first-ever rule on mercury"...with the exception of the mercury ruling the rest of that sentence is utter bullshit...see Deep-Sea Drilling in the Gulf and Arctic Oil Exploration permits...Just how liberal those women now on the SCOTUS is yet to be determined, but if they are as liberal as the person that nominated them we could be in for a very rough ride...

[ProSense]

288. Well

"..."health care reform"....don't make me laugh..."repealed DADT", nope, Congress did that, "Ended the Iraq War", by leaving thousands of troops in country...some "end"..."re-regulated the financial industry" as previously mentioned that"

...laughter is healthy, even if you have to tell your own jokes and laugh at them.

More good reads:

Vt. gets $18M for health exchange
http://www.pnhp.org/news/2011/december/vt-gets-18m-for-health-exchanges

http://www.democraticunderground.com/100286001

BTW, do you have evidence of this claim (or is this part of the joke): "'Ended the Iraq War', by leaving thousands of troops in country"

[truebrit71]

289. Oh trust me, your posts always make me laugh...

...

[ProSense]

290. Just

"Oh trust me, your posts always make me laugh..."

...as I thought, nothing to back up your claims.

My turn:

[truebrit71]

296. ..."nothing to back up my claims"....except reality and the google on the interwebs...

[Betty Karlson]

293. You know...

"clown" and "moron" may make you sound like a tough guy/ girl, but they do not substitute for arguments (of which you don't provide many).

[ProSense]

294. Well,

"'clown' and 'moron' may make you sound like a tough guy/ girl, but they do not substitute for arguments (of which you don't provide many)."

...I didn't think much about Cenk's lame attempts to sound progressive.

"that doesn't mean that we should pretend that President Obama has been brilliant because we're scared of the big, bad Republicans."

"If he had wrestling nickname it would be The Establishment."

"Change was a cutesy slogan he used to trick us into thinking he was on our side."

"The agenda of the president sucks and is deeply Republican."

[truebrit71]

297. ..And...

...many think even less of Obama's attempts to sound like a Democrat...whilst behaving like a republican...

[Matariki]

298. Your subject line is totally misleading.

in spite of your bolded type - THIS is what sticks out and is the main point of the article:

Primaries are the perfect place to send a message without taking away votes in the general election.

[ProSense]

300. Where

"Your subject line is totally misleading....Primaries are the perfect place to send a message without taking away votes in the general election."

...in the OP do I make any claim about "primaries" or the "general election"?

"Vote Against Obama in Iowa " is the title of Cenk's diary.

The excerpt is from his writing.

[1stlady]

302. Cenk is a rethug

Plain and simple and I don't trust people who go from one extreme to another. First, he was a far rightwing Reagan prolife rethug, now your supposedly to the left of Michael Moore. I call BS, just another rightwing hack infiltrating the democratic party, divide and conquer tactic. No wonder they fired him from MSNBC and good riddance!!!!

[Douglas Carpenter]

305. Cenk interviews Democratic Underground Co-Founder David Allen

for those of you have not seen this interview before:

.

[PA Democrat]

306. I like Cenk. I don't always agree with him

but enjoy hearing his point of view. This post makes me sad to see so many people who viciously attack anyone with a different point of view.

[fascisthunter]

309. Your campaign to smear all critics with dishonesty is alarming

does anybody here realize how this makes Obama look? Actually it's creepy.

Cenk knows voting for someone else in CERTAIN areas will NOT HARM OBAMA'S CHANCES.

[ProSense]

316. It's

"Your campaign to smear all critics with dishonesty is alarming"

...fascinating that you see this as a "smear." I mean, Cenk wrote the stupid diary. More than 160 people troll-rated it.

I disagree with what he wrote. It and his premise were idiotic.

You turn to personal attacks because Cenk is being criticized for something he wrote.

[ProSense]

319. Wait

"It wasn't Cenk's idea, it came from Occupy Iowa."

...Occupy Iowa wrote the diary?

You know going from thread to thread engaging in personal attacks isn't going to stop people from criticizing anyone.

[fascisthunter]

326. look

who.is.talking.

[mmonk]

313. If I get the chance to register a primary protest vote, I will.

That is different than a general election vote. I am against Rubinomics just as I am against Reaganomics.

[MrMickeysMom]

323. Boy, talk about your flame bate, knee jerk reactor thread machines!

Take it to the streets and ask this same question, and you'll probably be advised, "this is what Americans are supposed to do during a primary season... a very early primary season."

Can't have any traditional challenges to Obama? Think again. Better yet... start thinking PERIOD.

[Bonobo]

325. With elected officials like Cenk and Greenwald, what hope do we have!?

Oh, wait...

Our elected officials are the ones changing the constitution, hobbling habeus corpus, calling for indefinite detention of enemies of the state, propping up the war machine, cutting home heating assistance for the impoverished and feeding the Wall Street monster.

[1stlady]

331. I'm convinced

that freepers are joining this site in droves with anti Obama BS. How convenient they arrive right around election season. Anyone who thinks voting uncommitted against Obama won't hurt him during the GE is a fool and doesn't understand politics. If the vote for uncommitted is high, it will send a message that the dems are an extremely fractured party and that is not the case. The last time I checked Obama had a 75/85% approval rating among dems. It just doesn't look good and its pathetic. Whats the saying, a house divided against itself cannot stand, those words have never been more true than now. Cenk is working for the rethugs, its clear as day.

[Erose999]

333. NDAA, the mandate, DOMA still on the books, GITMO and other sites still open, Bradley Manning

detained and tortured, Elizabeth Warren's consumer protection agency neutered, expansion of drone strikes and extrajudicial assassinations, warrantless wiretaps continue, MMJ clinics raided and harassed, Occupy protesters brutalized by police, Patriot Act renewed at every opportunity etc etc.

But lets not criticize the president or the party establishment because he's running against the big bad GOP Boogeyman

[mmonk]

334. Depends on your view.

I didn't like the revamped Heritage Foundation's Health Care Plan and preferred at the minimal, a public option (killed by centrist Democrats) which was just used as a bargaining chip. Regulation of the financial system will require something else to "too big to fail" and a still pretty much deregulated derivative and hedge fund market. I didn't see much in prosecution of the financial fraud perpetrated on us. We've endured more years of deficit producing Bush tax cuts and false conversations surrounding the need to cut government spending in a down economy. We've also had more privatization of education while cutting budgets and starving it and then blaming the teacher's union. Both parties are targeting our social safety net for "reform" instead of funding it. The march forward on more free trade iniatives continue. I see no solutions on the horizon and self restricting rules put on Democrats by Democrats to do anything about it. Battles are reduced to battles over the minutia.

[BklnDem75]

335. Notice it's always the 'former conservatives'

That calls for bs that can only help the GOP.