you all DO realize that if Holder resigns or is fired...

[scheming daemons]

...That the GOP will filibuster and delay approving his replacement for the next 5 months.

... Just enough time to keep the DOJ from cracking down on their voter suppression efforts.

They will pull the same crap they pulled with approving Obama's choice for the new Consumer Protection Agency that came from the Dodd-Frank law.

People on DU that are calling for Holder's resignation or firing are either naïve about what the GOP will do here or are actively part of a troll brigade.

I will leave it to the readers to decide which motivation is at play in individual posts.

[NNN0LHI]

1. Due to this being an anonymous website I go with option number 2

[matmar]

2. You don't expect the same voter enthusiasm for Obama in 2012 as there was in 2008?

You don't expect there to be teary eyed, wall to wall people filling up Grant Park in Chicago on election night?

You don't expect there to be over 1 million people on the National Mall for Obama's 2nd inaugeration?

As George W. Mushmouth once said - There's an old saying out west maybe you've heard it here......

[Voice for Peace]

17. what's the old saying out west?

I do expect great voter enthusiasm to re-elect him.

[EOTE]

41. Fool me once, shame on you.

Fool me twice (long awkward pause), fool me can't get fooled again!

I believe that's how it goes.

[Voice for Peace]

65. ahh..

but I don't see what that has to do with Obama.

[EOTE]

70. I'm guessing some people might be less likely to vote for him due to unkept promises of his first

term. His stance on MMJ being one of them, his gifts to Wall St. might be another.

[Voice for Peace]

72. I think anyone who's paying enough attention to be mad at Obama

for these reasons, is paying enough attention to understand
the fate of the US if Romney gets elected, and that will be
a motivator.

[EOTE]

74. I think that's true, for the most part.

I'm very, very disappointed in Obama, but I'll be voting for him regardless. However, while I imagine the great bulk of 2008 Obama voters will vote for him again, I can think of a few staying home from the disappointment. I definitely think this will be a closer election. A few months ago I thought Obama was going to walk away with it. Now, I'm not so sure.

[Voice for Peace]

76. maybe you can influence them not to stay home on election day; apathy will elect Romney

I'm not disappointed in Obama but I didn't have as many
expectations as a lot of people did - it just seemed like there
was too huge of a ship to be turned, exactly like I envisioned
the crash of the Titanic.. that if Obama could turn this country
just a hair to the left, just enough.. bigger change will follow.
And I think he is succeeding, and I still believe that.

We must get him in for a second term when he will not be
as politically constrained, and perhaps some of the disappointment
people feel will be relieved. He's a man of integrity & heart,
unlike the opponent. He's working against a huge force,
cheat and deceit & all their minions & millions who pillage this
country.

[EOTE]

87. It's not just the lack of change, it's the moving in the wrong direction.

I'll bring up MMJ again. Obama didn't just go back on his campaign promise on that, he actually veered to the right of Bush. Raids of MMJ dispensaries have actually increased while he said he would take a hands off approach to it. This wasn't something he had to do so he wouldn't be seen as soft on drugs, it seems very intentional. Now, I'm guessing that this wasn't something that Obama himself wanted to do, more that he was just following orders to an extent. However, to the people who have been arrested or who are no longer able to obtain their medicine, I don't think it matters one bit.

[Voice for Peace]

106. yes, that's a big issue for me as well

but especially as more has come out about who is running the DEA
operations, I'm wondering how much he even was involved or
informed.

My pov is that if he had inherited a healthy economy, and had a humane
congress to work with, there would have been more attention given
sooner to many things. We don't know even a half of what he
has had to deal with, probably not even a tenth. We know he's
made mistakes, and taken bad advice; we know he's evolved
and is capable of evolving. He's a man who listens and makes
an effort to understand, not just to give lip service to listening.
He actively tries to learn, not to defend himself but to listen
and learn. This is a sign of a great man, in my opinion.

I don't know if he could have dealt differently with the DOJ raids in
his first term or not, with all else he had on his plate, and I expect
it could be political suicide to move too fast. I will never believe
(unless I hear it from him) that he doesn't care or have a
compassionate point of view on this, or that he is personally behind
the MM crackdowns. I believe he'll do all he can when he is able.
I do look forward to him fulfilling his promises, and more, in his
second term. Maybe I'll be proven wrong. But I'll vote for him.

[1StrongBlackMan]

109. YES or NO

Do you believe you will get MMJ under romney? Do you believe you will fare any better under romney on any issue?

If yes, then - with all due respect - you are foolish; if no, what is your point for posting in this thread?

[EOTE]

145. Of course we won't get MMJ under Romney.

For you to even ask that, shows me that you don't understand what this fight is about. Is that the standard for which we're allowed to complain? That kind of thinking only ensures that the republicans and democrats get closer and closer until we only have one party. So you suggest that we just wait for the parties to become one? I guess Obama is allowed to lie his ass off so long as he's doing something that Romney would do as well? Very dangerous thinking, there.

[1StrongBlackMan]

153. I disagree ...

I believe I have a firm grip on what this fight is all about.

Complaining is one thing, letting a fellow Democrat hanf on a purely partisan matter, is quite the other.

I keep hearing people, on the right and more recently here on DU, proclaim that President Obama is lying/has lied about so many matters that I have lost count.

Would you please point to a single matter that President Obama has lied about?

And for the record, not doing what one never said one would do, is not lying, nor is moving more slowly on a matter than many would desire.

Thanks.

[EOTE]

154. "I'm not going to be using Justice Department resources to try to circumvent state laws

on this issue." - Obama on medical marijuana.
http://www.rollingstone.com/politics/news/obamas-war-on-pot-20120216

What he did was not "moving more slowly" or not doing what he never said he would do, what he did was an out and out lie. He said that he would allow states to decide on their own regarding MMJ and NOT bring in the Justice Department where state law was settled, that was a lie, no bones about it. That's not his only lie either. So, there's that single matter you were looking for. Any questions?

[1StrongBlackMan]

156. You forgot ...

To post the REST of what President Obama said. Here, I'll post it for you:

"What I specifically said was that we were not going to prioritize prosecutions of persons who are using medical marijuana," Obama said. "I never made a commitment that somehow we were going to give carte blanche to large-scale producers and operators of marijuana -- and the reason is, because it's against federal law."

The president continued: "I can't nullify congressional law. I can't ask the Justice Department to say, 'Ignore completely a federal law that's on the books.' What I can say is, 'Use your prosecutorial discretion and properly prioritize your resources to go after things that are really doing folks damage.' As a consequence, there haven't been prosecutions of users of marijuana for medical purposes."

Until our Federal Legislators get in line with those States supportive of MMJ, absent advocating dictatorial mandates, the President's hands are tied.

I my view, the solution to MMJ (at the Federal level) is not dispensaries; but rather, (as the Arizona MMJ law allows) the user or their suurrogate get certified and grow their own ... for their own use.

It seems to me that many fighting the MMJ fight are doing so, not for the Medical part, but as a tactic in the larger, legalize it fight.

[EOTE]

158. I provided the quote for you. You're providing what he said years AFTER.

He said far more than that he wouldn't go after users of MMJ, he said that he wouldn't use the DoJ to circumvent state laws with regard to MMJ. That's EXACTLY what he's done. In fact, he's actually escalated the federal war against MMJ. It was a lie, plain and simple. His hands are not tied, you're simply providing excuses for him. He's ramped up the war, he's the fucking president, HE'S responsible.

[1StrongBlackMan]

160. Okay ...

But, again, I hope that you will not allow this issue to have you cut off your nose to spite your face.

[EOTE]

161. I'll definitely be voting for him this year...

if that's what you're asking. But I think every one of us who got him elected need to hold his feet to the fire, more so than has been done the past 3.5 years. I'm thinking it's likely he's going to be re-elected. If he lurches further to the right, it will be an immense disappointment.

[Macoy51]

146. Obama vs. Romney

And one that should be used on all the other “failures” of Obama’s first term. Every time someone says “Obama failed to get X passed!” Reply: “you’re right, but do you expect better from Romney?” This election is not between Obama and what we want him to be, but rather, between Obama and Romney. Of the two, whose values are closer to yours?


Macoy

[Voice for Peace]

148. thank you, a very simple and important point

should not be overlooked.

It's clear that Romney would be a dastardly outcome.

However even if the unthinkable happens we will not be stopped,
nor give up.

The real enemies are ignorance, apathy, discouragement,
negativity, excessive unproductive outrage. This begins and
ends inside our own heads. When people have clarity they
naturally move more quickly and efficiently towards the good.
And they become powerful in a whole new way.

[1StrongBlackMan]

152. Agreed ...

Now, we only have to agree what is "ignorance, apathy, discouragement,
negativity, excessive unproductive outrageignorance, apathy, discouragement,
negativity, excessive unproductive outrage."

I for one think many here exhibit this when they suggest that Democrats should leave Holder to hang for this trumped up "scandal", or moreso when they pick their single issue of choice and suggest that they will stay home from the vote because the administration has acted contrary to their desire.

[Voice for Peace]

157. I think we're all subject to this stuff, especially

when people are reading and paying a lot of attention to the state
of politics, to all the polls, the constant crazy rollercoaster of election
season, the desperate situations in the country and world, on and
on... it is easy to get lost or discouraged.

I can only work on myself, as far as the unproductive thoughts &
feelings. I can't change anybody else.

But if I keep hope alive in my own heart, maybe it will have an
effect on others, because it's authentic. And authentic hope is one
of the most powerful forces on earth.

If people don't vote for Obama for such reasons, it's obviously
their choice. But if they don't vote, and continue to complain
and bemoan Obama's efforts, that's not constructive. In fact
it's downright destructive. If they want to vote for Mitt, they
shouldn't be here. If they don't care one way or another, maybe
they should clam up or get out of the way.

[1StrongBlackMan]

159. 1+ n/t

[1StrongBlackMan]

155. 1+ n/t

[AverageJoe90]

84. That may be true......

But only if the economy goes into a pre-depression state again, and if we do nothing. If we can do enough to stop voter suppression efforts and stuff then we can and will win the election fairly handily to the point where nobody could risk rigging anything without the game finally being totally blown for all to see.

[Voice for Peace]

150. Rick Scott's idiocy may be a boon, in that it's shining a bright light on

the voter suppression scam that's going on all over the place.

[tavalon]

122. Really? I mean, really?

We will plug our noses and we will vote for him, though I wonder about the new voters from 2008. All of us old timers are used to the bait and switch and at least he has the self awareness not to use the hope and change meme, as that one didn't really work out.

[Voice for Peace]

126. I'm sorry you feel that way. I have enormous respect for him so

we don't see eye to eye here.

My kids and all of their friends like him and will vote for him.

I don't expect hope or change to come from any politician, it
comes from inside of me. It hasn't gone anywhere on account
of Obama being imperfect. I certainly don't think he has
deceived me or anybody, at least not intentionally.

[tavalon]

130. I don't believe it was intentional either

Leaving a waiting army of young men and women who had never voted before 2008 to go fallow, that I blame him for. He had so much hope and change in his fingertips with all of those very inspired new voters. Even this old time voter fell for it, he's that good at campaigning. Now, I'm back to "same as it ever was" and holding my nose, but I worry about those 2008 first timers. I hope they made it through and get that their vote is of some use.

[Voice for Peace]

134. I do know lots of kids who voted for him for the first time

and will be enthusiastically voting for him again, and getting involved.

I don't think he's failed them by any means, nor do they.
They are seeing the high stakes of this election.
If there were a different opponent, there might be more indifference
about voting.

But so many have seen, especially this past year, thanks to OWS
the incredible amount of money and greed out there, the unfairness,
the environmental ignorance, the outsourcing.. and they care about
this stuff.

[tavalon]

135. On that we agree

OWS gave me back my hope and continues to inspire me. I was and continue to be too idealistic for the game and I'm looking 50 yrs old dead in the eye. That I got knocked on my butt makes it easy for me to see the possibility of that in younger, newer voters. I got through the ABB year (anyone but Bush) and was actually a volunteer for Kerry, when it was actually his running mate who enthused me.

At this point, I will vote because it's what I always do, not because I have much interest in Washington. The people I talked to at OWS last fall, almost to a person, had a contemptuous look when Obama or any of the cronies in DC were mentioned. One person in particular said something like, "not looking there anymore. Looking here" and he pointed to his own chest. That's good, in a way. I've come to appreciate the anarchist POV (they really do care. A lot), but I don't know how that translates to playing the voting game.

As someone who was helping Andy Stephenson fight election fraud before cancer stole him from this world, I know that the key is getting enough numbers to keep the other side from stealing it. If for no other reason, I will vote. Will the younger anarchists vote? Your straw pole says yes, mine no. I want yours to be right because I see Obama as the lesser evil. And, actually, I'm crossing my fingers that if given a second term, he'll want more for his legacy than just being the first black President. I think he is capable of so much more if he chooses.

[Voice for Peace]

137. agree there is much more potential with his presidency

and I hope to see it, and although there will be some who
won't be happy no matter what, I am hopeful.

I actually had to look up who Kerry's running mate was!!!
Gawd.. I know my memory's getting bad.. maybe
the presidential run & subsequent disasters of JE's life
over-wrote his earlier VP run in my brain.

This may sound too philosophical, but I feel a responsibility
to focus on what is good, what's going right, to give my
attention and energy there. This doesn't mean not standing
up or speaking out against what is wrong/bad. But I
don't want to feed the Beast in me, and it is a beast.

Hopelessness, anger, apathy devour the best of us.
Surely we can see they are not our friends -- but
whisperers in the mind, to discourage and divert.

First and foremost, those are my enemies: the thoughts that
disable me, convince me to feel despair. They are in my
own head, not outside of me. I can't begin to fight what
is out there, if in my own head I am their audience & minion.

In my heart there is a perpetual hopefulness. I don't
create it, it's just there, as long as I have breath in me
it is there. I want to pay attention to it, no matter what else
may happen. It's independent of presidential politics and
world events.

I see Obama as a man with enormous integrity, who is
self-examining; honest with himself and others (at least
to an extent that is far above average.) I think he is brilliant
and a very solid authentic human being, he has much wisdom
even if I don't agree with him on everything. I give him a
ton of credit so far, and will vote for honesty and integrity.

Thanks very much for the civil conversation, by the way.

[tavalon]

147. Civility should always be the norm here.

I suspect my current feelings are confabulated with some personal issues that encourage me (wrongly) to be rather negative minded right now. Trying to fix it one day at a time.

[Voice for Peace]

149. me too

one day at a time works best, I think. If I can make it good today,
every day, I don't have to do anything more. The future will always
show up as Today. That's as much as I can handle, no more.

[tavalon]

164. Wow, I just reread your post to me.

That is just down and outright inspiring. I can see that we don't agree on finer points, but you have a much better attitude and I could do with an attitude adjustment. I'm not here very often anymore, because I feed the beast too much here. Perpetual hopefulness? Wow, may I find that gentle dear.

Thank you. The reread is just as powerful, nay, more powerful.

[Voice for Peace]

166. thanks very much for this post

I had a bit of a rough day on DU and it's great to get
positive feedback. I just wanted to add that there is
that same hopefulness in everybody. You see it in a baby.
We are born with it. It never goes away. It just gets
covered up with all the crap we acquire as we grow up.

Have you see those Russian nesting dolls? They are
like us. One self inside another, inside another.

Inside the adult is the young man or woman, and the
child, and the baby, and all the selves in between,
one inside the next. All those selves are still there in
us.

The tiniest doll at the very center of the doll is
like our original self. It is not empty inside, it's solid.
That's where the perpetual hopefulness is, in that
part of us.

And you see it in nature, every spring, no matter
what, so much life comes up out of the earth,
with no judgement whatsoever of us wrecking the earth,
bringing us color, oxygen, fragrance, food. Nature is
the most hopeful of all.

[abelenkpe]

35. Yeah it's evident there is a lack of enthusiasm

I mean just look at how small all the crowds are that greet the president everywhere he goes.

O wait, no, I'm thinking of Rmoney. But good try.

[Andy823]

42. Well...

I "do" expect a great amount of voter enthusiasm, that is from anyone who isn't one of those braid dead right wing morons who seem to like to vote "against" their own future! With an idiot like Romney running his mouth, and he does this on a daily basis, flip flopping, lying and trying to be just a "regular" guy, I don't think it will be much of a problem for president Obama's base to get out the voters, do you? The more people hear from Romney the less they like him.

[AnotherMcIntosh]

51. Apparently he's never flipped-flopped on supporting "free trade" agreements that send jobs to

foreign countries.

The pending "free-trade" agreement, when signed, will benefit Rmoney's wealthy donors. But it will cause further harm to the American working class. It is a pending disaster. The NAFTA of the Pacific.

Trans-Pacific negotiations have been taking place throughout the Obama presidency. The deal is strongly supported by the U.S. Chamber of Commerce, the top lobbying group for American corporations. Obama's Republican opponent in the 2012 presidential elections, Mitt Romney, has urged the U.S. to finalize the deal as soon as possible.
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2012/06/13/obama-trade-document-leak_n_1592593.html

What better way is there to make more money for the super-rich when killing American jobs?

[uponit7771]

59. Another winger meme being reported without the THEY WERE BUSHES AGREEMENTS....caveat...

...good job

FUDrs = fail no doubt

[lark]

66. Take off the blindfold

Bush may have started these, but who is working hard to bring them to fruition? Obama! Therefore, this is no longer the Bush plan, but is the Bush/Obama trade agreement. Why is it wrong when Bush does it but when Obama does the same thing, it's perfectly OK?

I'm not saying don't vote for him! He's definitely the lesser of 2 evils. But don't turn a blind eye to his pro 1% policies either. He's the one who put a major American jobs exporter as his jobs guru.

[AnotherMcIntosh]

113. I'll repeat what I said about Rmoney: "Apparently he's never flipped-flopped on supporting

'free trade' agreements that send jobs to foreign countries."

That is factually true. If you know of a single instance in which Rmoney has flip-flopped on supporting or not supporting "free-trade" agreements (even during the Bush years), it would be interesting to see a link to such activity. Unless I'm mistaken, I think that he has always supported "free-trade" agreements. If I'm wrong, prove it.

If you disagree with my statement that "The pending "free-trade" agreement, when signed, will benefit Rmoney's wealthy donors", please show me where I am wrong about that.

And if you disagree with my rhetorical question and statement, "What better way is there to make more money for the super-rich when killing American jobs?," again, please show me where I am wrong about that.

On the other hand, if you do not want to engage in an intelligent discussion but merely want to engage in insults and throw out phrases like "Another winger meme," don't bother.

[crazyjoe]

121. +1

[tavalon]

165. No, sadly,

many of them were Clinton's. I'd like to rewrite history on that one.

[chknltl]

128. answer: put more corporatists on the Supreme Court

..but who knows...maybe rawmoney will make SCOTUS appointments who represent We The People instead of corporatists. If that's to be the case, maybe it would be ok not to fight for every vote against this hostile takeover of OUR government! (I dunno, Fascism has yet to appeal to me...democracy, what little we have left, requires a All Hands On Deck attitude if there be any chance of salvaging it.)

[xxqqqzme]

80. No, but then the FIRST time

is always the best.







Obama's election/inaugural will be remembered w/ tears and chills by many for many years.

[sabbat hunter]

3. well congress will be

going in to recess soon, and Obama would just make a recess appointment.

[AnotherMcIntosh]

115. This is so logical that I do not understand why others do not readily see it.

[KakistocracyHater]

138. yeah I thought what about just doing the recess appointment

too. we need to pass this around, so at least others will know it's possible.

[treestar]

4. Agreed No way should Holder resign

The same people would be talking about "caving" if he did go.

[TBMASE]

5. I'm sure the Deputy AG could take over in the interim and continue the fight

and there could be a recess appointment if and when congress adjourns

[1-Old-Man]

8. You are exactly right, the Deputy could take over, if there was a will to do it

And a recess appointment is assured because Congress (the Senate) has little to no choice but to adjourn in an election year in which Republicans hope to regain the Senate..

[ProSense]

11. Fixed:

"I'm sure the Deputy AG could take over in the interim and continue the fight" an emboldened Issa.

There!

[Rosa Luxemburg]

58. I'm sure the Deputy AG could

The Republicans are naive

[Tx4obama]

108. Report: Issa Staffer Offered To Stop Holder Contempt Vote For DOJ Scalp

Rep. Darrell Issa’s chief investigative counsel offered to stop the contempt vote against Attorney General Eric Holder in exchange for the resignation of Assistant Attorney General Lanny Breuer, Newsweek’s Dan Klaidman is reporting.

-snip

http://www.democraticunderground.com/1014149833

[1StrongBlackMan]

110. Wait ...

Breuer, who heads the Justice Department’s Criminal Division, apologized in October for not telling other Justice Department officials that guns were allowed to “walk” during the Bush administration when Congress first raised questions about Operation Fast And Furious in early 2011.

Let's see if I got this right ... Issa offered to call off the dogs if someone in the President Obama administration resigns for not telling congress about something that the Bush Administration did ... that is exactly the same as what the President Obama Administration's AG is being investigated for?

Okay ... I believe that!

[kenny blankenship]

12. Besides, Bankster coverups don't require a whole lotta fight

You just go to lunch a lot and have Bloody Marys on the golf course with your former clients, the Wall St boyz. The passing days begin to blur together and gradually reality sinks in, and the little people resign themselves to the idea that there's never going to BE any justice done. They go back to their routines of trying to scrounge a living amidst the wreckage and their paltry televised amusements, and they'll soon forget they were ever angry and over what and with whom.

[pnwmom]

45. So, giving you the benefit of the doubt, you're politically naive. n/t

[TBMASE]

79. No, I'm really not

Maybe you think the DOJ just shuts down if there's no Attorney General. I assure you it won't.

There will be an acting AG in the interim

[jwirr]

6. Exactly.

[lame54]

7. Maybe they'll lay off...

the pot smokers and poker players

[JNelson6563]

9. No lack of short sightedness here on DU.

Figure in those who want Obama to fail and Voila! You've got the echo chamber for Faux News.

Julie

[abelenkpe]

39. If you don't care

you either don't care who is appointed to the supreme court, are a white male unconcerned with civil rights or are just plain foolish. You can choose to blame Obama for not being more progressive but only by ignoring republican obstructionism and the fact that far too many democrats in congress aren't democrats at all. That is where we should be concentrating our efforts: on making congress more liberal/progressive. Because that is how we force the president to be more liberal/progressive. But don't expect people to not respond to posts advocating against voting or caring about the next election because it does matter.

[abelenkpe]

57. OK you are more cynical than I am

I'm not willing to reach rock bottom. I still think things can be turned around by concentrating on electing true progressives/liberals at the local and congressional level. I have a young daughter and am not willing to gamble on the very distinct possibility that civil rights will be completely trashed if we give up and resign ourselves to the idea that we can't change unless we hit the bottom. For her. So you're gonna have to excuse me for not agreeing with you and not giving up just yet.

[KakistocracyHater]

139. what bothers me is: where Dems have control, why aren't

they passing laws to guarantee access to birth control, abortion? that is, so they aren't chasing after GOP when they introduce their awful anti-birth control laws?

[abelenkpe]

151. You mean at the state level?

That's an interesting question. Lemme research what's up with my blue blue blue state of CA.
It would be nice to see some prominent democratic women standing up for women's rights and access to health care.

[KakistocracyHater]

162. yes, like the good guys & women's version of TN

the upside down version of trans vaginal ultra sound, the reverse of Kansas, etc.

[Proud Liberal Dem]

10. Right. And if we were dealing with people whom play fair and had the same level of integrity

we wouldn't even be having this discussion IMHO but, yeah, you're absolutely right and I've been making the same point in other threads on this topic. Not to mention the fact that a lot of people here probably wouldn't be happy with Holder's replacement anyway as Republicans will demand somebody FAR from progressive (if they agree to confirm anybody at all for the next 5 months). Remember, they took months just to confirm Sebelius for the DEPARTMENT OF HEALTH

[ProfessionalLeftist]

13. That's their plan, I believe. n/t

[barbtries]

14. i haven't seen that on DU

though this is at least the second thread setting us straight.
are there actually DUers who don't know that this is republican BULLshit?

[ProSense]

15. Here:

"Let sleazeball Issa and the GOP have their pointless little victory and force Holder to resign."
http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1002&pid=840907

[barbtries]

26. thanks ProSense

it's not even a one-off.
fast and furious was a bush admin program people.

[abelenkpe]

40. That Issa voted for.

[barbtries]

69. right.

sigh.

[KakistocracyHater]

140. so the Pres. should just twist it a little & catch Issa up in

his guilty schemes, with Holder doing the prosecution; as I see it, if you come into office with LOTS of illegal activity, you slowly go about ending all of that activity, 1 by 1.

[barbtries]

144. that would be sweet.

i can think of a whole shitload of republicans who i believe are ripe for prosecution. don't think it'll happen though. sigh.

[KakistocracyHater]

163. if he wins a second term he SHOULD,

it's now I think REQUIRED, in order for America to avoid slipping down further, I think the US is a second world country now as it is

[joeglow3]

44. So was the Patriot Act and the Bush Tax cuts

What is your point?

[coalition_unwilling]

16. The Civil Rights division of the U.S. Department of Justice does

not require a sitting U.S. Attorney General to do its job.

That said, I wish Obama would do a literal "F-U MFs" to the Repigs on their demands for Holder's resignation. Obama's popularity would shoot into the stratosphere were he to do so. It would be a moment right up there with 'Day that shall live in infamy" and "Blood, sweat and tears"

I know, I know, it's not Obama's public schtick, but I bet that's exactly what he's thinking.

[Voice for Peace]

18. not going to happen. nt

[KakistocracyHater]

141. I hope that IS the main theme of his 2nd term

.

[Voice for Peace]

143. I have a dream and I'm not the only one...

that justice will be done,
even if it takes forever

[graham4anything]

19. YUP!

I do realize that even if the SCOTUS opened a position, it will never be filled

traitors to America, like Ron and Rand Paul want to ruin all governemnt positions and bring back the wild wild west anarchy that used to be back before the better side won the Civil War and the great LBJ signed the voting acts.

Why anyone that is a democrat, or democratic would give any liking to a libertarian or a Paul family member is beyond me.

No position shall be filled until Democrats win control back in the house with REAL dems or those that will support Obama.
(note-like Angus King, who backs Obama.(and whom Rush Limbaugh and the Koch brothers hates). One would have to be insane not to see why Rush limbaugh and others on the right
say dems should stick with the candidate who can NOT win when King will win.)

don't be deceived by 3rd parties and don't be deceived by "swing voters".

swing still connotates blacks being lynched and hung back in those wild west days the Ron Paul./Rand Paul /David Duke people love
to fantasize about.

anyone who doesn't have a side this year is not even worthy of wasting time on.
(it's like watching a NY Jet vs. Dallas Cowboy game. Either you are lifetime Jet fan, or a johnny come lately, but no NY fan would
ever root for the cowboys, same as no NY Met fan would root for the Yankees and anyone not a Yankee fan would root for the Red Sox.

[JDPriestly]

20. I don't think Holder will resign or be fired.

Obama has already protected him with the executive privilege. And if all the facts come out, it won't be Holder and Obama who have problems if the version of the facts that I have heard is correct.

[nolabels]

91. Your correct, it's simple fact of never letting a lawyer go in the heat

The trumped up crap the tea-baggers are holding is just that.

[dmosh42]

21. I Don't think I would know if he was gone, unless we're told. Yeah, Ass't AG can do whatever.

[asjr]

22. I wish the Democrats in the House could sue the

damned Republicans in the House for treason. I have been sick hearing the "news" this morning on the television. When Rubio came out and said he is for holding Holder in contempt was the last straw. His career is over. Where are the Democrats of this nation? Are we going to put up with this BS? The entire country is in jeopardy. I think it is time to occupy D.C. in front of the capitol building. This country is being steamrolled!

[INdemo]

46. sue hell....just run a half hearted investigation on illegal activities and probably half the damn

Repukes would be in jail. And these same Repukes that are organizing these Repuke pacs would be serving prison time now in another era...
"This country is being steamrolled" so how do we stop it,the billions of dollars brainwashing voters through the corporate media.When voters, even Democrats refuse to vote for a President just because he is black doesnt say much for our freedoms...There I said it..Never thought in my lifetime we would ever see 1960's attitudes in the 21st century..
..If this election is close I think we can expect so much election fraud that it will make 2000 and 2004 look like the perfect example of free elections...

[warrprayer]

24. Agree with you totally

despite my misgivings about Holder, this is an obvious attempt to bolster voter suppression.

[Stuart G]

25. K and R nt.

[AnotherMcIntosh]

27. Or he could turn over the documents. And start make noises about prosecuting war criminals and

banksters.

His failure to prosecute openly admitted war criminals and banksters has not won him too many friends in the Republican Party. It's not too late for him to change that policy.

And if he truly has documents, including those that would show the culpability of the Bush Administration's involvement in Fast & Furious, why not turn them over? In fact, why not hold a press conference in which he could announce that he was going to turn over the Bush-related documents?

Why not?

What's he doing? Auditioning for his next high-level corporate job after he leaves the Attorney General position?

[scheming daemons]

36. it is against the law for him to turn these documents over

[AnotherMcIntosh]

49. Has he even claimed that?

Last edited Fri Jun 22, 2012, 09:09 PM - Edit history (1)

According to some Holder supporters, he's turned over lots of documents. None of them claimed that it was illegal for him to do so.

He's not invoking executive priviledge? When applicable, that's a priviledge that can be invoked or waived.

If you truly believe that it would be unlawful for him to turn over requested documents, where is your citation or reference to the law which supports your statement? You didn't just make this up, did you?

[librechik]

67. yes.

[xxqqqzme]

88. Pay attention please

A number of Democrats on the committee issa chairs have pointed out issa has subpoenaed transcripts of Grand Jury testimony. Holder would be in conflict of the law to provide these documents.



Please consider apologizing to scheming daemons.

[AnotherMcIntosh]

112. You are saying "pay attention"? Are you aware that a great many news sources are reporting that

Holder and the Administration have invoked executive privilege?

Why would they need to invoke executive privilege if they had a factual basis for claiming that all of the subpoenaed documents which have not been turned over are transcripts of Grand Jury proceedings?

Although you mentioned that a number of members of the committee have asserted that the committee is seeking to subpoenaed Grand Jury testimony, I have no information that they have claimed that the committee, if true, is only seeking to subpoenaed Grand Jury testimony. In addition, I have no information that Holder and the Administration have claimed that the committee is seeking or only seeking subpoenaed Grand Jury testimony.

Although you did not provide a citation or reference in support of a position that an attorney for the Federal government is generally prohibited from disclosing a matter occurring before the grand jury, the authority for that position can be found in Rule 6(e)(2)(b)(vi) of the Federal Rules of Criminal Procedure in Title 18 of the U.S. Code. Even when that general Rule is applicable, there are exceptions to it.

In contrast to some committee members, Holder and the Administration apparently have not relied upon Rule 6 but have relied upon executive privilege. Those committee members, even if Democrats, do not get to choose the ground or grounds upon which Holder and the Administration can rely upon when refusing to comply with a subpoena.

You asked for an apology on behalf of scheming daemons. I would certainly consider apologizing to them if I ever insulted them by claiming or implying that they were not paying attention. I have not done that. But you have. Please, let's see your apology.

[brentspeak]

81. Link?

Or did you just make that up?

[Benjamin Parish]

28. lol.

Thats one hell of a conspiracy.

[abelenkpe]

43. Yeah

Its a conspiracy because there's no evidence of republicans doing that in the past right little troll?

[slackmaster]

29. Two simple words to allay that particular concern...

Recess appointment.

[AnotherMcIntosh]

50. Sure! Why not?

[bluedigger]

30. Then it would be the President's responsibility to ensure that the DOJ continued to function.

There is no indispensable individual in the US government.

[bigwillq]

33. ....

[green917]

31. The President needs to put this ridiculous baloney to rest asap!

President Obama needs to call a press conference, stand up and say something akin to the following:

First of all this, allegedly, out of control and reckless program was started under the Bush Administration and, more than likely, was at least tacitly approved by the Committee now chaired by Mr. Issa! To ask for the resignation of my Attorney General over the wrongful death of 1 American when the Previous President's 3 Attorney's General presided over the wrongful deaths of more than 4,000 American Service members based on lies that those Attorney's General assisted in promulgating to the American people is patently ridiculous and I wont stand for it. The previous occupant of my post invoked the State Secrets privilege 6 times to my 1 and the best answer you could get out of his longest standing Attorney General was, "I don't recall" (which he uttered more than 50 times during 2 hours of testimony). This is a political witch hunt and, quite frankly, it's an insult to the American people that you are wasting your time with such ridiculous horse-hockey when there are millions of Americans out of work and struggling to make ends meet. The simple fact that you would be so foolish as to ask for the resignation of my Attorney General in light of the conduct of the past 3 men to hold that post is, frankly, laughable and so we in the Administration are going to treat it as such!

[longship]

56. Very well written.

I think that Obama will say something about this. Whether it is something like your speech or not depends on when and the perceived damage (or not) the campaign is taking.

But I agree, it should be something strong and should clearly call out Republican hypocrisy.

Thanks for your reply.

[barbtries]

75. i wish he would say just that.

you got it - please send it to him, to OFA, to places beyond DU.

[Blanks]

95. The speech probably shouldn't use the phrase

horse hockey though. Because conservatives may think he's talking about polo and call him an elitist.

I'd hate to see that.

[47of74]

120. Horse shit sounds better to me

[KakistocracyHater]

142. either one, because let's face it they call the Pres.

names, no matter what he does, so he might as well have some fun.

[B Calm]

32. Holder should start an investigation

looking into the corrupt Issa and his cohorts!

[AnotherMcIntosh]

116. He should. But won't. They are Republicans. Protected Republicans.

[frylock]

34. so the deputy AG wouldn't continue the fight against voter suppression?

please do lecture us some more on our naivete. and ftr, i don't think holder should be fired or retire over this, despite his being less than truthful in his testimony. his crackdown on MMJ however is another story.

[EnviroBat]

37. Wherer the hell is Obama on this?

He needs to be holding a huge press conference on this, getting the FACTS out to the public, and putting this shit to bed!

GOD DAMN IT! I hate when this guy just sits on his hands like this!

[Tarheel_Dem]

48. "Sits on his hands"?

Why is there a need to get anything "out to the public"? If you mean political junkies, then who cares? The "public" doesn't give a shit about this issue.

[BlueToTheBone]

38. DU is advocating resignation/firing?

Are they crazy? Sounds like troll baiting to me. Surely we are smarter than that.

[Tarheel_Dem]

47. "I will leave it to the readers to decide which motivation is at play in individual posts."

This "reader decided", and I think most of us know what's going on here.

[AlbertCat]

53. People on DU that are calling for Holder's resignation ...

... are trolls, plants, and/or duped rubes.

[Woody Woodpecker]

61. I want Holder to resign - because he's abusing MMJ patients

when he should be after the real criminals, you know, the 1%'ers....

Holder has his priorities all wrong.

Obama should be firing the remaining Bush cronies that are pretending to be AG's.

We still have one here in Denver.

[FreeBC]

71. I agree

I should feel bad that the guy persecuting marijuana users might have to resign?

I will celebrate it.

[AlbertCat]

86. because he's abusing MMJ patients

Oh please!

Though this is disappointing, it's not resign material.

[AnotherMcIntosh]

117. Absolutely right!

[Rosa Luxemburg]

62. could be

people with 1 to 3 posts suddenly appeared

[valerief]

54. Having him resign or be fired would be in the best interest of the GOP. nt

[MADem]

55. Holder needs to just appoint someone to oversee FL while he jerks Issa's chain in DC.

Issa is gonna wanna go on "recess"--I'll bet he's got a few boondoggles planned.

Let's go after Issa and turn the tables--why should a 2x car thief, arsonist, and "Soprano-style" intimidator have ANY oversight over Judiciary? He's a criminal! Talk about the damn fox watching the henhouse!

[RBInMaine]

60. Ain't gonna happen. So chillax.

[Arkana]

63. Doesn't the deputy AG become acting AG then?

[The Wielding Truth]

64. We must be so strong. Holder must stay and we must hold our precious voting rights in check.

Really it's time to slam these assimilating Con Men to the wall and protect this country from these domestic terrorists. Denying free and far elections is a third world norm. It shall not be ours!
Anyone calling their friends in big business and putting on the pressure? If they support this witch-hunt they will lose your business if your reps supports this kangaroo court skit they will lose your support.

[SunSeeker]

68. The Repukes can pound sand.

The longer they drag this out, the more this looks like what it is, a political game. Holder should definitely not resign and the President should not even think of firing him. Yeah, it sucks that DOJ has been going after pot stores. But Rmoney would go after them even worse, not to mention ruin the country while he's at it. This is a no brainer for Dems.

[rufus dog]

73. I am remaining calm today, had two posts hidden yesterday

My only two ever, except for one other where the person didn't pick up the sarcasm. Anyway, people are going with the purity excuse. Great plan, go with purity! (To be clear - Sarcasm)

It is time to stand up and fight or we will get steamrolled. Too many thinks Democrats are horrible at messaging, the problem is, other than the President, no other Democrat gets any airtime. Now, his detractors will say he should be out there shouting 24x7, but you know what, if he does people will get tired of him. I like him and I got tired of him during the end of the HC debate.

p.s., a post without an F-Bomb!

[brentspeak]

77. Congrats on winning Stupid Thread of the Day

An acting head of DOJ is not required to fight voter suppression efforts -- only the assistant Attorney General heading the Civil Rights Division is:

http://www.justice.gov/crt/

People on DU that are calling for Holder's resignation or firing are either naïve about what the GOP will do here or are actively part of a troll brigade.

I will leave it to the readers to decide which motivation is at play in individual posts.

Ok, I've decided what motivation is at play in this individual OP above. Thanks for telling us in advance what that motivation is. Very sporting of you.

[Tarheel_Dem]

89. !!!

[One_Life_To_Give]

78. Why does DOJ need an attorney general to do it's job?

Are all of Holders deputies so incompetent that they can't do their basic job with Eric their to hold their *(&^.

[rudycantfail]

96. The entire justice department ceases to function

and even be if the AG is absent. Under the right circumstances DLC loving centrists will chow this down.

[morningfog]

82. Would the crack down on voter fraud end if Holder was axed?

I should hope not. It is not like he is the only doing it, if he is even playing an active role.

Disclaimer: I don't think Holder should go now. I think he should have gone long ago. But, now Obama needs to keep him so as not to give Issa the win.

[madokie]

83. Holder isn't going anywhere

This is a bullshit post if ever there was one.
If we had a *church lady* wagging her finger smilie I'd add it here since we don't this will have to do

peace.

[GoCubsGo]

98. Yup.

If President Obama had any intention of firing Holder, he wouldn't have claimed Executive Privilege over information that filthy, crooked car thief is demanding. And, I don't see Holder quitting over this, either.

[bobthedrummer]

85. Who is the Inspector General of DoJ? n/t

[dionysus]

90. it's just the same anti-dem clowns... they cheer any dem going down.

[Peaceful Protester]

92. Fishing Expedition

Republicans allocated Ken Starr millions to tell us Clinton had cheated on his wife.

It wasn't until much later we discovered the person leading the charge, Speaker of the House, Newt Gingrich, was also simultaneously involved in his own 2nd extramarital affair.

All together the cost of independent probes, by Republicans, into the Clinton administration, came to nearly $80 million taxpayer dollars.

(Reference: http://tinyurl.com/25f4ads)

Ken Starr Revisited?

Since Democrats control the Senate, the White House and federal agencies, Republicans can use House oversight hearings to slow down policies and practices of which they disapprove.

"The ability to hold hearings is a tool to help shape public opinion, put pressure on the Senate and maybe allow you at the end of the day to get concessions from the administration," said former Republican congressman Vin Weber, a Washington lobbyist.

(Reference: http://tinyurl.com/7ju5bxm)

The ability of this Committee to waste tens of millions of taxpayer dollars on a whim in order to pursue political fishing expeditions and to shape public opinion for partisan purposes is what should be investigated.

[amerciti001]

93. Enough already....

Listen, Eric Holder...release all of the documents that you have that implicate all of the right-wing crooks that was actually involved in this scheme to "walk" guns to the Mexican Drug Cartels. Why are you being nice to the people that are trying to bring you down. The truth is that this was a Bush era program started by the AFT and the then Justice Department under the (f**king) Bush Administration.

Listen, the right-wing Media(aka Fox News), is spewing lies about this Administration unholy alliance to bring about more Gun Control, which is a bald face lie.

Really!?, just who is you trying to protect!? Release those papers or Documents that implicates all of the ugliness of the past Administration, to the dismay of Issa, for wanting to "get to the Truth", give him the truth and start the warrants and arrests that'll follow.

Really, protocols, procedures, ongoing investigations be damned!! If some of the people from the AFT or the past Administration are caught-up in this conspiracy and scheme to "walk" these firearms into Mexico for the (so-called) reason of trying to get to the top of these cartels, so be it.

As for myself, if I was in your shoes, the very first time I was called before this kangaroo court, I would have gave names, places and dates; laid it all out, with tons of papers(at least a pallet of boxes/ 8 boxes per layer-10 layers high) and told them (sic) a**holes to go and now talk to those who was really at the inception of this bogus operation, get whatever else information that they wish to know from them, 'cause as of now- I've issued directives to end this "maddness", and anyone that has any knowledge of this to file all reports to this subcommitee for further review. End of Story.

[AnotherMcIntosh]

118. Well said.

Especially, to paraphrase your statments:
1. Tell them that it started as a Bush-era program.
2. Bring in a pallet of documents.

[notadmblnd]

94. and I thought it was just me that thought this place was overrun by trolls

Nice to know that I'm not alone.

[demgrrrll]

97. It is overrun by trolls.

[GoCubsGo]

99. I wouldn't say that it's "overrun".

But, there sure have been a hell of a lot more of them than is usual. And, I expect even more as the election gets closer, especially when more dirt comes out on their candidate.

[demgrrrll]

100. Probably right we will muddle through.

[robinlynne]

101. why are we mentioning resigned or fired?

[bvar22]

102. Tell me about these plans of the Attorney General to "Crack Down on Voter Supression",

...and where was he in 2010?

...Wisconsin 2012?



You will know them by their WORKS,
not by their excuses.
[font size=5 color=green]Solidarity99![/font][font size=2 color=green]
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------[/center]

[GeorgeGist]

103. On what basis are you assuming ...

that James M. Cole, Deputy Attorney General (appointed by Obama) will drop the crack down?

[Enrique]

104. I don't think he should resign

because he hasn't committed any wrongdoing.

You don't say anything about that in your OP, does it factor into your thinking at all?

[The Green Manalishi]

105. I loathe holder

He is an evil dimwit, on a par with Meese and John Mitchell, but this is *NOT* the time for him to resign. I shall NEVER forgive him for his anti medical marijuana crusade, he is far worse than the previous administration, but this has little to do with 'Fast and Furious' and everything to do with voter purges.
I do hope President Obama kicks his ass to the curb after winning re election and, as horrible as it sounds, I rather hope that ANYONE opposed to MMJ comes down with something terrible enough to need it... but first stop the illegal purges.

[drynberg]

107. GOOD POINT...

Even though AG Holder ain't no liberty saint nor even a decent defender of our Constitution, we gotta show some DOJ Muscle and stop these wacko states from abridging voting rights of Americans...now, after Nov., well I'll join y'all in demanding his firing, but for now, I say hold your friggin' nose and support Eric.

[Shankapotomus]

111. The Repubs haven't even called Bush's attorney general

to speak before the committee. And he's the guy who was there when Fast & Furious was instituted. That's how you know this is all BS. This is nothing but a partisan attack on Holder because he called for an investigation in Florida. Repubs know where our power points are and they want to take them all out. I expect a huge uproar and election backlash if Holder is forced out.

Repubs are disgusting.

[Peaceful Protester]

114. Here's Your Link (repost)

Daily Kos: 2008: Darrell Issa Voted "YES" to Fund Project Gunrunner & Merida Initiative

http://tinyurl.com/6utn26u

[D23MIURG23]

119. I certainly hope that neither are on the table. The man has done nothing wrong. n/t

[Tsiyu]

123. The Repukes will find a way to milk this whole controversy

for their own gain, but no giving in to fear here. The cretins feed off it.

We can survive the worst; we just need to hope and pray we won't have to.

I have Holder's back when it comes to F&F - this whole fake outrage and waste and fraud Congress is foisting on us is CRIMINAL when this nation is suffering so much.



I may not like Holder's decisions in all cases, but Congress is out of control.

[upi402]

124. and if we had DEMANDED an opposition party

gurus like you would not needed.

do you see the fallacy;

claiming to be a pragmatic realist while resigning yourself to subjugation because you are so smart in seeing that bad people make things difficult?

has holder or obama pursued war crime and betrayals of democracy?

imho, people espousing the mentality of the OP have been enablers of what we have now

i fought it for decades.

now y'all gurus can clean the mess your self-righteous, deluded "reasonabless" has allowed.


done

[progress2k12nbynd]

125. You're the decider of what possible motivations are behind posts?

"People on DU that are calling for Holder's resignation or firing are either naïve about what the GOP will do here or are actively part of a troll brigade. "

I appreciate the vast majority of your posts but who made u god?

[Jack Sprat]

127. It's true. I'm sure the Rethugs

had this offensive planned to deflect the voter purges going on in precincts and wards all over the country. It's half silly that so many haven't caught on to their repetitious methods of undermining democracy every single chance they have. Holder is being used and abused by a complacent and compliant media that also falls for their tricks every time.

[obxhead]

129. You DO realize that if Holder is allowed to stay

nothing will be done about voter suppression.

Stay or go, the result will be essentially the same.

[joshdawg]

131. Since the topic was and is Holder,

and the majority of responses have been about Obama, I think I will stick to the topic.
Holder will not resign, nor will he be fired. The President knows as well as anyone that this was nothing but a political show put up by some brain-dead tea-baggers in order to discredit anyone in President Obama's Cabinet. Nothing but a show and most "lefties" recognized it for being just that.
AG Holder will retain his job and still continue to do good work for the Prez and the American people.
I would be extremely surprised if he lost his job......jaw-dropping surprised!

[JustAnotherGen]

132. ITA

And he won't be around on November 7th to advocate for those citizens who are denied the right to vote - or have their vote counted . . . Accurately.

[SemperEadem]

133. Neither should take place with regards to Holder

this is nothing more than rethug theatre. Period.

[Romulox]

136. Wow. Just think of all those MMJ Cancer Patients on the loose! nt