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Fri Dec 16, 2016, 05:06 PM

Obama - Won't say it's time to dump the Electoral College

Last edited Fri Dec 16, 2016, 08:22 PM - Edit history (1)

A good man. But the wrong man for our time.

He says that when Democrats' message is strong and speaks to where the people are, the popular vote and the Electoral College vote will tend to align.

Feckless.

We have needed/need a fighter, not someone who is the perennial optimist.
We need another FDR.

22 replies, 3717 views

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Replies to this discussion thread
Arrow 22 replies Author Time Post
Reply Obama - Won't say it's time to dump the Electoral College (Original post)
TheDormouse Dec 2016 OP
pangaia Dec 2016 #1
The Velveteen Ocelot Dec 2016 #2
TheDormouse Dec 2016 #3
The Velveteen Ocelot Dec 2016 #5
TheDormouse Dec 2016 #6
The Velveteen Ocelot Dec 2016 #8
TheDormouse Dec 2016 #10
The Velveteen Ocelot Dec 2016 #13
TheDormouse Dec 2016 #9
The Velveteen Ocelot Dec 2016 #15
PoliticAverse Dec 2016 #19
LanternWaste Dec 2016 #12
spanone Dec 2016 #4
TexasProgresive Dec 2016 #7
MineralMan Dec 2016 #11
TheFrenchRazor Dec 2016 #17
TheDormouse Dec 2016 #21
LanternWaste Dec 2016 #14
TheFrenchRazor Dec 2016 #16
etherealtruth Dec 2016 #18
ananda Dec 2016 #20
TheDormouse Dec 2016 #22

Response to TheDormouse (Original post)

Fri Dec 16, 2016, 05:09 PM

1. Yes we do....

Too late for now..... if ever....

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Response to TheDormouse (Original post)

Fri Dec 16, 2016, 05:12 PM

2. He said the electoral college was the product of an earlier time

when there was a somewhat different vision of how the federal government should work, which to me sounded like he thinks it should be revisited. He was also correct in stating that most of the time the electoral and popular votes do align. And he also knows that changing or eliminating the electoral college would require a constitutional amendment, which just isn't gonna happen.

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Response to The Velveteen Ocelot (Reply #2)

Fri Dec 16, 2016, 05:14 PM

3. that's what's known as a dodge

He could have gone on from there to say that the Founders intended for the Constitution to be amended from time to time and we have reached such a moment, as happened with the Amendments that extended voting rights to former slaves and to women, and that provided for direct popular election of Senators.

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Response to TheDormouse (Reply #3)

Fri Dec 16, 2016, 05:21 PM

5. The problem with that statement is that the Founders intended it to be

difficult to amend the constitution; so, for the sake of preserving a stable government, they deliberately threw in a whole lot of procedural roadblocks, the result of which is that there have been only 27 amendments that have been ratified out of almost 12,000 proposals that have beeen introduced in Congress since 1789.

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Response to The Velveteen Ocelot (Reply #5)

Fri Dec 16, 2016, 05:25 PM

6. right and my point is

that we need a leader who would say "And I am going to do everything I can going forward to fix this."

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Response to TheDormouse (Reply #6)

Fri Dec 16, 2016, 05:28 PM

8. Which is exactly nothing. Obama is about to become a private citizen

with no more power than you or I have. He might get involved in politics again, or he might not. There are other people who are or will be in leadership positions, and those are the ones who need to hear from us.

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Response to The Velveteen Ocelot (Reply #8)

Fri Dec 16, 2016, 05:30 PM

10. no more power - that's bullshit

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Response to TheDormouse (Reply #10)

Fri Dec 16, 2016, 05:39 PM

13. That's not a very nice thing to say.

Especially about a true statement.

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Response to The Velveteen Ocelot (Reply #5)

Fri Dec 16, 2016, 05:29 PM

9. 27 amendments equals 1 amendment every 8 years or so

Every generation has gotten an Amendment.

Except for Gen X.
There hasn't been a new one in a quarter-century.

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Response to TheDormouse (Reply #9)

Fri Dec 16, 2016, 05:44 PM

15. The Equal Rights Amendment flopped even though it had widespread support.

An amendment to eliminate the electoral college would be even floppier because there are many states, mostly red states in the south and the plains, that benefit from the unevenly-allocated votes they got. They will not want to give up that power. A proposed amendment must be ratified by either: the legislatures of 3/4 of the states, or state ratifying conventions in 3/4 of the states. That's 38 states. No way in hell would such an amendment be approved by 38 states when so many of them benefit from the current arrangement.

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Response to The Velveteen Ocelot (Reply #15)

Fri Dec 16, 2016, 06:30 PM

19. That is indeed the problem. States it benefits would have to vote for eliminating it. n/t

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Response to TheDormouse (Reply #3)

Fri Dec 16, 2016, 05:39 PM

12. Yours is what's known as "moving the goalposts."

 

Yours is what's known as "moving the goalposts."

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Response to TheDormouse (Original post)

Fri Dec 16, 2016, 05:16 PM

4. bullshit.

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Response to TheDormouse (Original post)

Fri Dec 16, 2016, 05:27 PM

7. Why should he. He has no power to do it- never did.

The only way to get rid of the EC is for a large majority in nearly every state to oppose it, i.e. the amendment against prohibition of alcohol sales. FDR couldn't have done it.

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Response to TheDormouse (Original post)

Fri Dec 16, 2016, 05:36 PM

11. Presidents Defend the Constitution.

Obama is the President. You want to change the Constitution? Start a movement to do that. Our President took an oath to defend it. I remember when he did that - twice.

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Response to MineralMan (Reply #11)

Fri Dec 16, 2016, 06:12 PM

17. the constitution includes the process of ammendment and various interpretations;

 

citizens are well within their rights to push for change; obama could defend that. there is no such thing as "settled law,: as they say.

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Response to TheFrenchRazor (Reply #17)

Fri Dec 16, 2016, 08:23 PM

21. thank you

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Response to TheDormouse (Original post)

Fri Dec 16, 2016, 05:43 PM

14. Revisionist history of President Obama starting already

 

Revisionist history of President Obama starting already? If you're predicating your little "wrong for our time" crap on one instance (not disavowing the EC), then remain true to your own convictions instead of waffling on ethical convenience, and denounce FDR as wrong for his time as well... internment camps, you see, are un-American.

Or simply rationalize what you need, when you need and where you need it... bias can do that to a mind lacking objectivity and discipline.

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Response to TheDormouse (Original post)

Fri Dec 16, 2016, 06:10 PM

16. the EC must go, or the blue states should go. nt

 

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Response to TheDormouse (Original post)

Fri Dec 16, 2016, 06:12 PM

18. There are many members here that support the electoral college

I do not, as I believe in one person one vote .... merely pointing out that there are a number of people reporting to be progressives/ liberals/ democrats that cling to the EC

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Response to TheDormouse (Original post)

Fri Dec 16, 2016, 06:33 PM

20. We have just learned that our Dem leaders do not have our backs.

This is a hard nut to swallow.

Very hard.

I cried for our nation and our vulnerable people after his speech.

It really hit home that no one will be there to fight for us.

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Response to ananda (Reply #20)

Mon Dec 19, 2016, 12:32 PM

22. Donna Brazile apparently felt left in the lurch

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