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Sun Dec 11, 2016, 10:13 AM

It's beginning to look a lot like treason...

123 replies, 17781 views

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Reply It's beginning to look a lot like treason... (Original post)
mnhtnbb Dec 2016 OP
Achilleaze Dec 2016 #1
Ilsa Dec 2016 #4
Initech Dec 2016 #64
mnhtnbb Dec 2016 #2
chimpymustgo Dec 2016 #46
TheFrenchRazor Dec 2016 #71
doc03 Dec 2016 #79
CousinIT Dec 2016 #3
Baitball Blogger Dec 2016 #8
Pinkflamingo Dec 2016 #34
Baitball Blogger Dec 2016 #35
Wounded Bear Dec 2016 #38
Baitball Blogger Dec 2016 #40
RKP5637 Dec 2016 #82
DK504 Dec 2016 #42
chimpymustgo Dec 2016 #43
BlancheSplanchnik Dec 2016 #98
HughBeaumont Dec 2016 #5
3catwoman3 Dec 2016 #87
mnhtnbb Dec 2016 #90
YOHABLO Dec 2016 #96
LisaM Dec 2016 #97
lagomorph777 Dec 2016 #109
Baitball Blogger Dec 2016 #6
Calista241 Dec 2016 #7
libtodeath Dec 2016 #9
Indydem Dec 2016 #12
trof Dec 2016 #16
HughBeaumont Dec 2016 #57
Post removed Dec 2016 #66
billh58 Dec 2016 #75
billh58 Dec 2016 #74
truebluegreen Dec 2016 #81
billh58 Dec 2016 #84
truebluegreen Dec 2016 #85
billh58 Dec 2016 #89
truebluegreen Dec 2016 #99
billh58 Dec 2016 #104
truebluegreen Dec 2016 #107
billh58 Dec 2016 #110
truebluegreen Dec 2016 #113
kcr Dec 2016 #111
Calista241 Dec 2016 #13
libtodeath Dec 2016 #14
Post removed Dec 2016 #19
libtodeath Dec 2016 #23
Indydem Dec 2016 #28
libtodeath Dec 2016 #30
Name removed Dec 2016 #32
Indydem Dec 2016 #36
libtodeath Dec 2016 #52
ismnotwasm Dec 2016 #56
DonCoquixote Dec 2016 #100
truebluegreen Dec 2016 #68
uwep Dec 2016 #83
kcr Dec 2016 #112
TrekLuver Dec 2016 #25
Indydem Dec 2016 #31
TrekLuver Dec 2016 #45
TheFrenchRazor Dec 2016 #72
Demsrule86 Dec 2016 #80
Calista241 Dec 2016 #27
Generator Dec 2016 #67
Post removed Dec 2016 #10
libtodeath Dec 2016 #15
eShirl Dec 2016 #17
libtodeath Dec 2016 #20
Indydem Dec 2016 #22
libtodeath Dec 2016 #55
SammyWinstonJack Dec 2016 #54
TrekLuver Dec 2016 #26
Indydem Dec 2016 #33
TrekLuver Dec 2016 #47
mnhtnbb Dec 2016 #11
TrekLuver Dec 2016 #24
Blanks Dec 2016 #59
MFM008 Dec 2016 #63
onenote Dec 2016 #91
MFM008 Dec 2016 #101
onenote Dec 2016 #114
llmart Dec 2016 #69
Oneironaut Dec 2016 #106
Bad Dog Dec 2016 #18
ewagner Dec 2016 #21
northoftheborder Dec 2016 #29
Post removed Dec 2016 #62
Jacob Boehme Dec 2016 #37
mgardener Dec 2016 #39
Name removed Dec 2016 #41
Paladin Dec 2016 #44
chimpymustgo Dec 2016 #48
Pinkflamingo Dec 2016 #51
tritsofme Dec 2016 #53
TrekLuver Dec 2016 #58
uponit7771 Dec 2016 #49
onenote Dec 2016 #92
uponit7771 Dec 2016 #94
Jean-Jacques Roussea Dec 2016 #50
zippythepinhead Dec 2016 #60
Calista241 Dec 2016 #61
Jean-Jacques Roussea Dec 2016 #65
Calista241 Dec 2016 #103
Jean-Jacques Roussea Dec 2016 #105
onenote Dec 2016 #115
Jean-Jacques Roussea Dec 2016 #117
onenote Dec 2016 #118
Jean-Jacques Roussea Dec 2016 #119
onenote Dec 2016 #120
Jean-Jacques Roussea Dec 2016 #121
world wide wally Dec 2016 #70
onenote Dec 2016 #116
TheFrenchRazor Dec 2016 #73
wildman76 Dec 2016 #76
Nitram Dec 2016 #77
On the Road Dec 2016 #78
NastyRiffraff Dec 2016 #86
mnhtnbb Dec 2016 #88
ramapo Dec 2016 #93
KewlKat Dec 2016 #95
kairos12 Dec 2016 #102
mdbl Dec 2016 #108
rockfordfile Dec 2016 #122
JimBeard Dec 2016 #123

Response to mnhtnbb (Original post)

Sun Dec 11, 2016, 10:20 AM

1. Tis' the Season of Treason (R)

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Response to Achilleaze (Reply #1)

Sun Dec 11, 2016, 10:47 AM

4. Treason is the Reason for the Season

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Response to Ilsa (Reply #4)

Sun Dec 11, 2016, 02:48 PM

64. Ooh I think that will be the title of this week's Top 10!

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Response to mnhtnbb (Original post)

Sun Dec 11, 2016, 10:24 AM

2. A picture is worth a thousand words, isn't it?

I am struck by the cold, soulless eyes of Putin.

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Response to mnhtnbb (Reply #2)

Sun Dec 11, 2016, 12:25 PM

46. Hey - let's get this TRENDING on TWITTER. IT'S BEGINNING TO LOOK A LOT LIKE TREASON.

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Response to mnhtnbb (Reply #2)

Sun Dec 11, 2016, 06:38 PM

71. it is a good one, and spot on. nt

 

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Response to mnhtnbb (Reply #2)

Sun Dec 11, 2016, 07:39 PM

79. Didn't "W" look into those eyes and see his soul or something? nt

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Response to mnhtnbb (Original post)

Sun Dec 11, 2016, 10:35 AM

3. "At this point he's done everything he claimed HRC did."

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Response to CousinIT (Reply #3)

Sun Dec 11, 2016, 10:54 AM

8. I have always found that Republicans project their faults.

If they are up in arms, complaining about something the Democrats are doing illegally, it usually means they're trying to deflect attention from the fact that their side is engaging in that specific behavior.

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Response to Baitball Blogger (Reply #8)

Sun Dec 11, 2016, 11:39 AM

34. Exactly what I've been thinking

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Response to Pinkflamingo (Reply #34)

Sun Dec 11, 2016, 11:42 AM

35. I've seen it happen that way several times, and don't understand why the

media hasn't picked up on the pattern.

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Response to Baitball Blogger (Reply #35)

Sun Dec 11, 2016, 11:52 AM

38. It's been going on for decades...

Remember all of the anti-gay bullshit, followed by anti-gay champions getting busted for "immoral acts?"

They are masters of it.

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Response to Wounded Bear (Reply #38)

Sun Dec 11, 2016, 11:59 AM

40. +1

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Response to Wounded Bear (Reply #38)

Sun Dec 11, 2016, 08:02 PM

82. +1, n/t

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Response to Baitball Blogger (Reply #35)

Sun Dec 11, 2016, 12:11 PM

42. The media

is complacent in the train Drumpf and his minions have been involved in treason.

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Response to Baitball Blogger (Reply #35)

Sun Dec 11, 2016, 12:13 PM

43. The "media" are major players in the charade!

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Response to chimpymustgo (Reply #43)

Sun Dec 11, 2016, 11:56 PM

98. . n/t

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Response to mnhtnbb (Original post)

Sun Dec 11, 2016, 10:49 AM

5. The Reagan Administration did it and all they got was "away with it".

In fact, they name buildings and highways after him.

IOKIYAR

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Response to HughBeaumont (Reply #5)

Sun Dec 11, 2016, 08:34 PM

87. I never call Washington National airport...

...anything other than Washington National.

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Response to 3catwoman3 (Reply #87)

Sun Dec 11, 2016, 08:38 PM

90. Me, too.

I lived through Ronnie as Gov. of California.

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Response to 3catwoman3 (Reply #87)

Sun Dec 11, 2016, 11:13 PM

96. I won't either. I just say I'm flying into D.C.

Friends know it's not Dulles .. and don't get me started on the name 'Dulles' either.

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Response to 3catwoman3 (Reply #87)

Sun Dec 11, 2016, 11:25 PM

97. I know someone who just subs in dictator names..

Caligula National Airport, Idi Amin National Airport...

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Response to 3catwoman3 (Reply #87)

Mon Dec 12, 2016, 10:17 AM

109. Me too! It's a local airport for me and I cannot say that vile name.

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Response to mnhtnbb (Original post)

Sun Dec 11, 2016, 10:50 AM

6. The only one who is having a good Christmas this year is the one who doesn't

believe Jesus Christ is his savior.

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Response to mnhtnbb (Original post)

Sun Dec 11, 2016, 10:51 AM

7. Sometimes I wish people would educate themselves.

The Treason Clause applies only to disloyal acts committed during times of war. Acts of dis-loyalty during peacetime are not considered treasonous under the Constitution.

And nothing resembling "aid and comfort" has happened. Trump has to actually give them something, and it has to be provable that he gave / or did X in exchange for Y. That is a very high bar.

We make ourselves look foolish, and demonstrate that we are not to be taken seriously, by saying crap like this.

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Response to Calista241 (Reply #7)

Sun Dec 11, 2016, 10:55 AM

9. How about sedition then?

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Response to libtodeath (Reply #9)

Sun Dec 11, 2016, 11:01 AM

12. Grab a dictionary.

 

se∑di∑tion
səˈdiSH(ən/
noun
conduct or speech inciting people to rebel against the authority of a state or monarch.
synonyms: rabble-rousing, incitement to rebel, subversion, troublemaking, provocation


Pretty sure that's what many in here are doing when they say President Obama should declare Marshall law and throw out the election results, as if he has that power.

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Response to Indydem (Reply #12)

Sun Dec 11, 2016, 11:11 AM

16. Martial

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Response to trof (Reply #16)

Sun Dec 11, 2016, 01:13 PM

57. Why do people always get this wrong?

Marshall Law is a college in Cleveland.

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Response to Indydem (Reply #12)


Response to Post removed (Reply #66)

Sun Dec 11, 2016, 07:33 PM

75. Nailed it! n/t

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Response to Indydem (Reply #12)

Sun Dec 11, 2016, 07:33 PM

74. It appears that you need

to grab a copy of the SOP for DU Bubba. FFR is the penalty for supporting Trump and his racist, bigoted, right-wing followers

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Response to billh58 (Reply #74)

Sun Dec 11, 2016, 07:55 PM

81. It appears you need a remedial reading course.

 

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Response to truebluegreen (Reply #81)

Sun Dec 11, 2016, 08:27 PM

84. Not really.

Flagged For Review says it all for me.

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Response to billh58 (Reply #84)

Sun Dec 11, 2016, 08:33 PM

85. Equating dictionary definitions

 

with support for trump says it all for me.

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Response to truebluegreen (Reply #85)

Sun Dec 11, 2016, 08:35 PM

89. Oh it's not just the

dictionary definitions, it's the posts that support the imbeciles that voted for Trump that got him booted, and rightfully so. I hope they keep him under FFR for a long time.

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Response to billh58 (Reply #89)

Mon Dec 12, 2016, 12:01 AM

99. They are not all imbeciles,

 

even Hillary didn't put them all in one basket. Good luck winning any of them back with that attitude.

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Response to truebluegreen (Reply #99)

Mon Dec 12, 2016, 09:40 AM

104. As the popular votes shows

we don't need to "get them back" -- we just need to get more of our own side to vote. The simple answer is GOTV. And yes, anyone who voted for the maniacal, ego-driven, bigoted, misogynistic, idiot after listening to him is an imbecile -- all of them.

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Response to billh58 (Reply #104)

Mon Dec 12, 2016, 09:58 AM

107. Fine. But go with an inspiring candidate next time; just a suggestion.

 

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Response to truebluegreen (Reply #107)

Mon Dec 12, 2016, 11:28 AM

110. I agree, and with the rise

of "white power" right-wing bigotry and racism in sections of our country, whoever the Democratic candidate may be, we will need extra emphasis on getting out the vote in the more Liberal blue areas.

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Response to billh58 (Reply #110)

Mon Dec 12, 2016, 01:10 PM

113. Very true.

 

It would be nice if the Party also addressed the new Jim Crow laws and other voter suppression tactics--at full volume and before the next election day.

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Response to truebluegreen (Reply #107)

Mon Dec 12, 2016, 11:33 AM

111. Hmm. It's obvious some people find the white power message inspiring

We don't have to listen to those people, and we shouldn't.

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Response to libtodeath (Reply #9)

Sun Dec 11, 2016, 11:01 AM

13. Sedition is the crime of revolting or inciting revolt against government.

So no, he can't be prosecuted for that either.

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Response to Calista241 (Reply #13)

Sun Dec 11, 2016, 11:06 AM

14. Encouraging and allowing a foreign power to hack a election is not a revolt against our government?

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Response to libtodeath (Reply #14)


Response to Post removed (Reply #19)

Sun Dec 11, 2016, 11:19 AM

23. You know this how?

Glad that not only are you ho hum about this monster becoming president and the horrors it will unleash on most of us you also stick up for his racist and hate filled supporters.

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Response to libtodeath (Reply #23)

Sun Dec 11, 2016, 11:26 AM

28. Ok. Keep telling yourself that.

 

Most of these people aren't racists or hateful.

They are working class Americans; many without college educations. Americans who see their jobs being sent overseas or downsized, and who have experienced NONE of the recovery since 2008.

The Democratic Party used to be the party that represented these people. They stood for higher wages, union membership, and keeping American jobs here.

We used to fight for these people, and now our president supports TPP. We used to want a better tomorrow for these people, now our party platform seems to be "your primitive manufacturing job isn't coming back, go back to school you dunderhead." That isn't true to the value of My party, and they shouldn't be what any Democrat supports.

They are scared about their futures, and a snake oil salesman promised he would "MAGA!"

The fact that you can't see any of that, that you are blind to their real and genuine plight, and instead choose to lump their entire group together and call them racists is just delusion.

DJT will be the next President. You can accept that and fight to stop the damage his presidency stands to cause, or you can continue to fantasize that the election is going to be declared null and void by some extra-Constitutional action.

It isn't going to happen.

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Response to Indydem (Reply #28)

Sun Dec 11, 2016, 11:28 AM

30. They voted for an open racist and sexist bigot

I dont want to fucking hear about how wonderful they are.

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Response to libtodeath (Reply #30)


Response to libtodeath (Reply #30)

Sun Dec 11, 2016, 11:46 AM

36. Therein lies the problem.

 

You can't see anything besides what you want to see.

We need the best of them back to win the EC in 2020.

Keep calling them racists, bigot, misogynists, sexists, and homophobes; I'm sure that will make them want to run right out and vote Democratic.

All they want is a better life for them and their children. Orange McDipshit made it the keystone of his campaign to promise he could do that.

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Response to Indydem (Reply #36)

Sun Dec 11, 2016, 12:45 PM

52. They are what they are and own it proudly

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Response to Indydem (Reply #36)

Sun Dec 11, 2016, 01:10 PM

56. Do you know a few?

I do. And they are racist bigoted, misogynistic and homophobic as fuck.

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Response to Indydem (Reply #36)

Mon Dec 12, 2016, 12:52 AM

100. you can say "they are not"

and indeed, we may need the best of them, in whatever hazily defined way that is supposed to mean.

But the fact is, Trump, unlike many GOP, did not attempt to hide his racism, his sexism or his love of attacking the poor. It would be one thing if they stayed home or voted Johnson or Stein, because while I would have argued that those were bad decisions, they could at least be able to say "I did not vote FOR trump", they voted FOR him. It is also clear that when they say they want a better life for "them and their children", they sure as hell do not mean OUR children if they do not look like them. They are willing to go back to the days where Browns and Blacks were burnt as fuel to satisfy them.

Yes, not all Trump voters were bigoted, just as not all Germans liked Hitler. Yes, the shoe fits. I will not deny that the democrats ran a campaign that deserves to be pilloried for sheer INCOMPETENCE and ARROGANCE. I would name names, but I already have people ready to jury me if I continue speaking of the people whose names need not be said. However, there is never a reason to commit the electoral equivalent of a murder/suicide, and when we do try to get programs in the red states that their damned governors will nullify (like Florida's train and KY Obamacare, both killed by governors) one thing needs to be made clear.

We are not trying to take over the head of the parade, indeed, the way the party used us does stink, because we know that they are trying to take credit for civil rights we had to fight for tooth and nail. However, to all those who blame "identity crisis" or who defends those "good working folks who just wanted someone to hear them", know this, we are NOT going to the back of the line. We have no problem walking with, and even lending a shoulder as we walk together, but we are not getting in the back to satisfy YOUR vanity. Oh yes, bray about how we will lose in 2020 unless we kiss ass and do everything to make the white working class feel they are the top dog, because when they are fed upon by the people that tickled their vanity, we will know that they were very happy to let us be the meal.

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Response to Indydem (Reply #28)

Sun Dec 11, 2016, 04:11 PM

68. Hear, hear!

 

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Response to Indydem (Reply #28)

Sun Dec 11, 2016, 08:22 PM

83. Where were you

when the repugs were killing all the efforts to create jobs by the Democrats and President Obama. Everything he proposed was killed by the slime ball repugs, and blaming the Democrats for the repugs ugly and disgusting acts should disqualify you as a liberal. This is the mind set of many who call themselves liberals, all of you have short memories.

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Response to Indydem (Reply #28)

Mon Dec 12, 2016, 11:38 AM

112. There is acceptance

Which I think is fine because I agree it's going to happen.

And then there is normalizing it, which only ensures it will keep on happening. And insisting Trump support is not racism is only normalizing it. What you're doing is dangerous.

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Response to Post removed (Reply #19)

Sun Dec 11, 2016, 11:21 AM

25. What excuse? How do you know what Russia did and didn't do?

 

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Response to TrekLuver (Reply #25)

Sun Dec 11, 2016, 11:34 AM

31. Um, because I can read?

 

The WP story is about the fact that the CIA says the Russians hacked certain Democratic Party systems, obtained documents from there, and then released them to influence the election.

There is absolutely no evidence that the election was hacked. None. The recount in Wisconsin proves it without a shadow of a doubt. The idea that the election was tampered with was always bullshit based on the idea of magic hackers and corrupt electioneers.

Orange McDipshit won because he was more of a Democrat that the Democrats have been lately, so we lost.

It's not that hard to understand. Efforts to blame it on racism, misogeny, Russia, hackers, or tampered results are excuses. Delusional efforts to delay accepting that our Party has lost its way, and needs to get back to caring about working class Americans.

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Response to Indydem (Reply #31)

Sun Dec 11, 2016, 12:24 PM

45. I think most of us are saying that systems were hacked not the actual election.

 

The excuses of why Dem's lost is valid. Trashpot blew every dog whistle he could think of...AND IT WORKED. There is a wave of anti others going on in this country and around the world. It's not an excuse it is a fact. If you really believe that this election was mostly about working class white Americans and the economy then I disagree with you. Of course that played a part....but the other "excuses" that you disregard are at the heart of why this Trashpot won. I have talked with many Trashpot supporters and I know what the hell motivated them.

CNN ran a piece yesterday about a rural county in KY that voted Trump after a lifetime of voting Dem. When asked why vote Trashpot a guy said well I always voted Dem but not this time that Hillary is a baby killer....Now I wonder where he got that idea from????

The depths of propaganda that was spread during this election is nothing like I've ever seen. The were a lot of factors on why Dem's lost the elections...they are not excuses...it's facts. Does the white working class play a part of it...yes but it's a small part....I completely disagree that that is the main reason...that is what they want us to believe because it's easier to talk about that than what REALLY motivated these Trashpot supporters.

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Response to TrekLuver (Reply #45)

Sun Dec 11, 2016, 06:40 PM

72. you don't have a clue whether the election results were accurate. that's the problem. nt

 

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Response to TrekLuver (Reply #45)

Sun Dec 11, 2016, 07:40 PM

80. Bullshit.

You have thousands of votes in Detroit where there is no selection for the president...this election was stolen period...and I am sick of the ...oh dismantle the Dem party nonsense...we won the popular votes by three million...no way that happens and we really lose...it was fixed.

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Response to libtodeath (Reply #14)

Sun Dec 11, 2016, 11:26 AM

27. Nope. I suppose it could be a conspiracy or fraud if you can prove

All the elements of the crime. But he can easily say his comment on tv was an off handed comment. You have to prove that he asked them to do something, and they did it, and they did it in exchange for something.

If it can be proven that the Russians published fake shit, and that publishing of that fake shit materially affected our election process; unless you can prove that Trump or someone on his team promised the Russians something in return for that interference, then nothing can be done. And you're going to have to prove that it wasn't Trumps economic message to rural people, or anything else, that resulted in his election. And exit polls don't count as evidence.

The closest example I could think of is In 2001 we were attacked on 9/11. In 2002, the Republicans rode a wave to control both the House and the Senate. None of those Repubs could then be charged for what happened on 9/11 despite the fact that they indirectly benefitted.

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Response to Calista241 (Reply #13)

Sun Dec 11, 2016, 04:08 PM

67. Looking forward to President Trump, Comrade?

 

How nice for you. Maybe you can go on teevee and advocate for him.

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Response to Calista241 (Reply #7)


Response to Post removed (Reply #10)

Sun Dec 11, 2016, 11:08 AM

15. Glad you can be so condescending in the face of what is happening

Many of us here will suffer greatly or even die once SS,Medicare,Obamacare and the rest of the safety net is torn down.

lecture on though if it makes you feel good.

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Response to libtodeath (Reply #15)

Sun Dec 11, 2016, 11:13 AM

17. at least my death will be swift when my cancer comes back

it's highly aggressive

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Response to eShirl (Reply #17)

Sun Dec 11, 2016, 11:16 AM

20. That is heartbreaking.



But you know,smooth transition and all that is what really matters.

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Response to libtodeath (Reply #15)

Sun Dec 11, 2016, 11:18 AM

22. Then focus on THAT!

 

How much money and energy has been wasted in the last month whining about an election loss that has no chance of being undone?

I've already started making donations for 2018 and let my local Democratic HQ know I will make time to fight for SS, Medicare, and people's rights.

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Response to Indydem (Reply #22)

Sun Dec 11, 2016, 12:55 PM

55. Asking them to go along?

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Response to libtodeath (Reply #15)

Sun Dec 11, 2016, 12:51 PM

54. +1000000!

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Response to Post removed (Reply #10)

Sun Dec 11, 2016, 11:22 AM

26. Who is 'THEM'???? If you ain't a them then you needs to get up on out how bout that?

 

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Response to TrekLuver (Reply #26)

Sun Dec 11, 2016, 11:38 AM

33. I'm not "them"

 

I'm not wallowing in self pity.

I don't think Super Obama is going to declare the election void through some magical power.

I accept the fact we lost and am looking toward 2018.

I don't like it, but I'm not in denial.

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Response to Indydem (Reply #33)

Sun Dec 11, 2016, 12:26 PM

47. I'm not wallowing either....but I'm not whitewashing (pardon the pun) with what is going on in this

 

country...it was the great WHITE LASH.

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Response to Calista241 (Reply #7)

Sun Dec 11, 2016, 11:00 AM

11. Yes, but "It's beginning to look a lot like espionage" doesn't have the same ring

For cryin' out loud.

Neither does "it's beginning to look a lot like aiding a foreign country to interfere in our elections"

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Response to Calista241 (Reply #7)

Sun Dec 11, 2016, 11:19 AM

24. Just relax for Cripes sake...worrying about making ourselves "look foolish"...GET A GRIP

 

it's a funny MEME ........and yes it TREASONOUS ....I don't care if he can be prosecuted...in my mind HE IS A TRAITOR AND I HOPE I LOOK FOOLISH.

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Response to Calista241 (Reply #7)

Sun Dec 11, 2016, 01:25 PM

59. We are at war...

And his former campaign manager had connections to corrupt political campaigns in that region of the world.

Sure, we are not at war with the Russians, but we have countries that we are friendly with and the Russians are interfering with them, but we are at war.

There isn't a smoking gun here, but arguments can be made to connect the dots.

Especially with some of his cabinet appointments and their past policies and behavior.

Beyond that, our intelligence agencies are constantly monitoring potential threats, and he has made statements contradicting their claims. If its proven that he has lied or been deceptive on a matter of national security that is giving aid and comfort to the enemy.

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Response to Calista241 (Reply #7)

Sun Dec 11, 2016, 02:45 PM

63. TREASON

Treason in wartime is executable.
Anyone who tries to defend it
Or blow it off or excuse it
Needs to troll red state.

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Response to MFM008 (Reply #63)

Sun Dec 11, 2016, 08:54 PM

91. Are we at war with Russia? Did I miss the vote?

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Response to onenote (Reply #91)

Mon Dec 12, 2016, 01:02 AM

101. perhaps you missed the headlines since 2003

we have troops in Afghanistan, Iraq and flying over Syria.

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Response to MFM008 (Reply #101)

Mon Dec 12, 2016, 02:42 PM

114. Yep. Know all about those wars. Was called a traitor by some people

for opposing them. Just like I was called a traitor when I marched against the Vietnam War.

I'm not a big fan of folks throwing around traitor accusations. That doesn't make me any less appalled by the Russian hacking or any less interested in a full investigation and appropriate legal action regarding that hacking.

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Response to Calista241 (Reply #7)

Sun Dec 11, 2016, 05:02 PM

69. How is this any different from......

gunhumpers who forget the part about "a well-regulated militia" in their defense of everyone should be allowed to have a gun?

Why can't us Dems use the same tactic? It's been said by many others on here - we've got to stop with the "we have the moral high ground because we are so much smarter". Hell, at this point we need to use everything we can to save the soul of our country and if that means redefining the meaning of treason, than I'm in.

He's a treasonous bastard and should not hold ANY office in our government, let alone the highest office.

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Response to Calista241 (Reply #7)

Mon Dec 12, 2016, 09:55 AM

106. I agree. This isn't treason or sedition. Trump was elected by gullible Americans.

If Trump actually worked with Russia, it might be sedition. There is no evidence of this.

We need to concentrate on other things.

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Response to mnhtnbb (Original post)

Sun Dec 11, 2016, 11:15 AM

18. Season and treason are already taken.

Back in 1605, but seeing as the election was in November you can modify it accordingly.

Remember remember the 8th of November with vote rigging treason and plot,
I see no reason why vote rigging season should ever be forgot.


You never know, you might end up burning him like we did his effigies.





?w=736&h=442&l=50&t=40&q=80

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Response to mnhtnbb (Original post)

Sun Dec 11, 2016, 11:17 AM

21. Yes..but...

Reading a bunch of blogs and posts about the possible (and according to the CIA, Probable) Russian interference in the November 8 election. Iíve seen a couple of thoughtful posts about what evidence exists and what still remains to be discovered as well as several proposed solutions and calls for action.

The most common call for action is for the Electoral College to follow what Alexander Hamilton prescribed in Federalist Papers #68. Briefly, that is to nullify the vote by activating the Electorís mandate to counteract the undue influence of a foreign power in the election of a President of the United States.

Do I think thatís ever going to happen? No. Not now. Not ever.

I wonít bore you (or myself for that matter) with all the practical reasons why I donít think that will happen but I will make a point that nobody else seems to be making.

It is this: Trump himself is not the only problem. The culture he championed is the real problem. He created Trumpism and installed it like a malignant cancer into the body politic.

Even if Russia manipulated the media to install Trump, the effect was far more pervasive than votes for Trump over Clinton. It was a Republican sweep. It was a conservative sweep. Trumpism swept the electoral landscape. It gave Republicans/Conservatives a comfortable cushion to their established majorities in both houses of Congress so even if by some miracle, the results of the election were nullified and Trump was removed from office, the effects of Trumpism will infect our government for the next two years at a minimum and perhaps even longer.

The Electoral College has no power to reverse what happened on elected positions below the Office of President. The forces that elected Trump are now deeply embedded in our systems of governance and there is precious little we can do about it unless we want to destroy the very institutions we are trying to defend in the first place.

Our only hope is to build a firewall to prevent Trumpism from spreading. That firewall is the 2018 mid-term elections. The time to start building that firewall is now. Today. Not tomorrow or next week. Above all there is no time to wait for a new Progressive/Liberal/Democratic champion to emerge. If we want to take our country back, we, not some mythical hero, are the ones who have to do it.

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Response to ewagner (Reply #21)

Sun Dec 11, 2016, 11:28 AM

29. " The culture he championed is the real problem. He created Trumpism and installed it like a mal.."

Kernel of truth I believe. His words were seed thrown into a fertile soil. That is the most frightening and discouraging fact of all. And the most difficult problem to solve.

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Response to ewagner (Reply #21)


Response to mnhtnbb (Original post)

Sun Dec 11, 2016, 11:48 AM

37. So now we see that this BS of "Make America Great Again"....

....amounts to putting a new paint job on a rusted-out, 1960 Nash Rambler that Trump and the GOP found in some farmer's field.

And when the paint's dry, they'll all shout "Hallelujah! We have shown you the light America, now watch us destroy everything thatís important to you.Ē

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Response to mnhtnbb (Original post)

Sun Dec 11, 2016, 11:58 AM

39. Who got the information from the Russians?

I want to know who the hacked info was given to in the Trump campaign. DID Rudy know? Did Christi?
Did Trump know?
If he did the American people need to know and I would question his loyalty to the US.
We need to see his tax returns ASAP.
If any of his proposed cabinet was given that info, then they should not be confirmed.
If any Congressmen had the info then they should be questioned very closely, because I would question their ability to uphold the Constitution of the US and ANY legislation they support.
This is worse then Watergate, this involved a country that many consider hostile to the US.

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Response to mnhtnbb (Original post)


Response to Name removed (Reply #41)

Sun Dec 11, 2016, 12:22 PM

44. Welcome to DU!

I'm noticing a number of newcomers today, all seeming to advocate the same sort of thing: Democrats shouldn't do much of anything, regarding the ugly, emerging picture of just how bad our electoral system has been hijacked and stained.

Coincidence? I think not.

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Response to Paladin (Reply #44)

Sun Dec 11, 2016, 12:28 PM

48. Stay woke. n/t

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Response to Paladin (Reply #44)

Sun Dec 11, 2016, 12:35 PM

51. Here, here!

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Response to Paladin (Reply #44)

Sun Dec 11, 2016, 12:50 PM

53. If I was new here, I would be surprised by the widespread use of nonsense definitions

for terms that have real meanings. I can see why that person is confused.

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Response to Paladin (Reply #44)

Sun Dec 11, 2016, 01:18 PM

58. I think some people just have a stick up their ass. Don't you see you are getting edumacated from

 

these folks who are so kindly explainin the in's and out's of the definition of treason.

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Response to Name removed (Reply #41)

Sun Dec 11, 2016, 12:32 PM

49. We don't have to be at forma war for an act to be against the state, we weren't at war with Russia

... when the Jewish couple was put the death during the late 40s early 50s

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Response to uponit7771 (Reply #49)

Sun Dec 11, 2016, 08:58 PM

92. The "Jewish couple" have names.

Julius and Ethel Rosenberg. And they weren't charged with, tried for, convicted of, or executed for treason. They were the first Americans ever executed for espionage during peacetime. And their trial, conviction and execution remain controversial to this day.

Not sure what your point is supposed to have been.

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Response to onenote (Reply #92)

Sun Dec 11, 2016, 09:52 PM

94. Syntax

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Response to Name removed (Reply #41)

Sun Dec 11, 2016, 12:33 PM

50. The term "enemies" is flexible

 

I mean we weren't at war with Japan when Pearl Harbor happened. If a U.S. citizen helped with that it'd definitely be treason.

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Response to Jean-Jacques Roussea (Reply #50)

Sun Dec 11, 2016, 01:41 PM

60. fucking A

 








Good point!







































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Response to Jean-Jacques Roussea (Reply #50)

Sun Dec 11, 2016, 02:26 PM

61. No they wouldn't.

A state of war has to exist, or congress and the President need to legislatively declare someone an enemy of the state. Period, full stop.

Even Zacarias Mussaoui wasn't charged with treason despite him being a lawful US resident (he was still a French citizen). He was charged with conspiring to commit murder.

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Response to Calista241 (Reply #61)

Sun Dec 11, 2016, 03:37 PM

65. says who?

 

The laws on treason are left vague for good reason. Unless you're citing a supreme court ruling, I'm gonna have to disagree.

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Response to Jean-Jacques Roussea (Reply #65)

Mon Dec 12, 2016, 08:57 AM

103. I don't believe it's ever been contested in the SC, but the Constitution is pretty specific about it

The Constitution reads:

"Treason against the United States, shall consist only in levying War against them, or in adhering to their Enemies, giving them Aid and Comfort."

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Response to Calista241 (Reply #103)

Mon Dec 12, 2016, 09:51 AM

105. war, enemies, and Aid and Comfort are all widely interpretive in the 21st century

 

Cyber war, information war, culture war, etc

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Response to Jean-Jacques Roussea (Reply #65)

Mon Dec 12, 2016, 02:52 PM

115. Actually the law on treason is anything but vague.

It's quite specifically defined in the Constitution. And has been applied narrowly throughout our history.

As I noted above, I suspect that I'm one of many here who has been called a traitor because my protesting the war in Iraq and Afghanistan and, before that, the Vietnam War, was viewed by those on the right as giving "aid and comfort" to our enemy during a shooting war. So I'm not a fan of people throwing around "treason" accusations.

The Russians actions during the election, and the Trump campaign's involvement in them, need to be fully investigated and need to be the subject of appropriate legal action. But yelling "treason" simply polarizes those who we need to support taking those steps.

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Response to onenote (Reply #115)

Mon Dec 12, 2016, 03:10 PM

117. It's a paragraph long and doesn't define what constitutes aid or what constitutes an enemy

 

That's vague no matter how you slice it.

That's why John Adams and co thought they could jail people without breaking the first amendment. Sedition was treason and everything was sedition.

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Response to Jean-Jacques Roussea (Reply #117)

Mon Dec 12, 2016, 03:16 PM

118. Certainly you're not supportive of an interpretation

that would make the First Amendment subservient to accusations of treason?

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Response to onenote (Reply #118)

Mon Dec 12, 2016, 03:23 PM

119. Nah I'm just saying that the gov can interpret in a wide variety of ways whenever they see it fit

 

The fact that there's so little precedent is key. This year could very well set the precedent for what treason will be in the 21st century.

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Response to Jean-Jacques Roussea (Reply #119)

Mon Dec 12, 2016, 03:29 PM

120. And what would that precedent set as the standard?

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Response to onenote (Reply #120)

Mon Dec 12, 2016, 03:33 PM

121. Dunno. I won't claim to know all the answers, I just know the questions.

 

If I had any idea what the fuck was gonna happen in following months. If Trump's projected electoral college win was anything, it was evidence of chaos theory.

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Response to Calista241 (Reply #61)

Sun Dec 11, 2016, 05:12 PM

70. Ahem, ahem. We fuckng ARE at war and have been since the last asshole Republican was "elected"

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Response to world wide wally (Reply #70)

Mon Dec 12, 2016, 02:53 PM

116. Ahem Ahem. No we're not at "war"

At least not as a nation.

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Response to Name removed (Reply #41)

Sun Dec 11, 2016, 06:42 PM

73. looks like the Con fits the bill to a T. nt

 

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Response to mnhtnbb (Original post)

Sun Dec 11, 2016, 07:36 PM

76. omg thats the best Christmas card ever

What a great connection,Donald trump is a traitor so is Paul Ryan

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Response to mnhtnbb (Original post)

Sun Dec 11, 2016, 07:37 PM

77. The problem is, with a GOP majority in both houses of Congress, there ain't a damn thing we can

do about it.

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Response to mnhtnbb (Original post)

Sun Dec 11, 2016, 07:37 PM

78. I'm Behind in the News on This

What is the evidence that Trump made a deal outside of the simple fact that there was a hacking attempt from Russia?

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Response to mnhtnbb (Original post)

Sun Dec 11, 2016, 08:33 PM

86. As I saw the title of this thread

"It's Beginning to Look a Lot like Christmas" actually started playing on the radio. So I sang along, only with your title.

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Response to NastyRiffraff (Reply #86)

Sun Dec 11, 2016, 08:35 PM

88. Thanks for the laugh. I can just imagine!

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Response to mnhtnbb (Original post)

Sun Dec 11, 2016, 09:22 PM

93. Nixon got away with treason

In the 1968 campaign, Nixon opened up his own back channel communication/negotiation with the North Vietnamese. LBJ found out about it. He was in the same position as was Obama. Nixon told the North Vietnamese to hold out and he'd give them a better deal. He gave us years of killing and a lot of dead bodies.

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Response to mnhtnbb (Original post)

Sun Dec 11, 2016, 09:53 PM

95. Shouldn't gooliani be in the photo? He had NYC FBI sources that he outed on the news......well faux

news.

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Response to mnhtnbb (Original post)

Mon Dec 12, 2016, 07:44 AM

102. Remember, remember

the 8th of November,
the Drumpt treason and plot,
I can think of no reason,
why the Drumptputin treason should,
ever,
be forgot.

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Response to mnhtnbb (Original post)

Mon Dec 12, 2016, 10:12 AM

108. What will it take to get Repuglicans to realize what is being done?

They're all a bunch of moronic sheeple letting us be led to the slaughter.

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Response to mnhtnbb (Original post)

Mon Dec 12, 2016, 03:41 PM

122. Yes the republicans are traitors

A republican politicians will sell anybody and any country out.

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Response to mnhtnbb (Original post)

Mon Dec 12, 2016, 03:44 PM

123. The Climate Change deiners use the same tactics as the TOBACCO DENIERS of health

 

damages of tobacco products.

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