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Wed Nov 30, 2016, 04:17 PM

Report: Carrier will keep just 850 US jobs, get $700,000 a year in tax breaks

https://thinkprogress.org/trump-pence-carrier-deal-65e6bee054c9#.5gg8d4nmb

More than half the jobs will still leave the country, all while taxpayers hand Carrier a package of financial incentives.

After railing against air conditioning and heating manufacturer Carrier on the campaign trail for its announced plan to move production to Mexico — and therefore about 2,000 U.S. jobs — President-elect Donald Trump and Vice President-elect Mike Pence will announce on Thursday that they have struck a deal to keep about 1,000 of those jobs in Indiana.

But while Trump is already bragging about the deal, the details expose it as a raw one for a lot of Americans.

Fortune reports that the actual sum is even smaller. The company has pledged to keep 850 jobs in the U.S. that would otherwise have gone to Mexico, while also retaining some headquarters and engineering jobs that would have moved to Charlotte, North Carolina.

Since the company had originally put more than 2,000 at risk — 1,400 at the Indianapolis plant and 700 at the Huntington plant owned by Carrier’s parent company, United Technologies — the difference between those numbers mean that at least some production will move south of the border and more than half of the jobs will go with it. Fortune reports that 1,300 jobs will go to Mexico: 600 from the Indianapolis plant and the 700 in Huntington.

(end snip)

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Reply Report: Carrier will keep just 850 US jobs, get $700,000 a year in tax breaks (Original post)
deminks Nov 2016 OP
riversedge Nov 2016 #1
yeoman6987 Nov 2016 #12
VMA131Marine Nov 2016 #2
ProfessorGAC Nov 2016 #4
stevenleser Nov 2016 #15
ProfessorGAC Nov 2016 #22
TeamPooka Nov 2016 #16
atreides1 Dec 2016 #28
ProfessorGAC Dec 2016 #34
NewJeffCT Dec 2016 #25
csziggy Dec 2016 #29
ProfessorGAC Dec 2016 #33
VMA131Marine Dec 2016 #38
11 Bravo Nov 2016 #3
yallerdawg Nov 2016 #5
still_one Nov 2016 #6
Initech Nov 2016 #7
RAFisher Nov 2016 #8
erpowers Dec 2016 #36
Skittles Nov 2016 #9
ProfessorGAC Nov 2016 #10
Skittles Nov 2016 #18
ProfessorGAC Nov 2016 #21
Are_grits_groceries Nov 2016 #11
VMA131Marine Nov 2016 #20
Wellstone ruled Nov 2016 #13
SickOfTheOnePct Nov 2016 #14
katsy Dec 2016 #26
SickOfTheOnePct Dec 2016 #37
subterranean Dec 2016 #30
SunSeeker Nov 2016 #17
treestar Nov 2016 #19
SickOfTheOnePct Nov 2016 #23
treestar Dec 2016 #32
Baitball Blogger Nov 2016 #24
rockfordfile Dec 2016 #27
jmg257 Dec 2016 #31
erpowers Dec 2016 #35

Response to deminks (Original post)

Wed Nov 30, 2016, 04:23 PM

1. The ##Trumpeffect was to give away tax $. Not much of a DEAL for IN citizens!

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Response to riversedge (Reply #1)

Wed Nov 30, 2016, 05:13 PM

12. MSNBC is touting it right now

 

Again it's trump 24/7 and not even president yet.


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Response to deminks (Original post)

Wed Nov 30, 2016, 04:28 PM

2. $700k/year is pretty small potatoes....

compared to how much some cities have spent to on stadiums for sports teams to get them to stay or lure them to new locations. How much did Boston and Massachusetts spend to lure GE to relocate their HQ from Connecticut?

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Response to VMA131Marine (Reply #2)

Wed Nov 30, 2016, 04:32 PM

4. That's Where I Went, Too

I'm questioning that number. 850 jobs kept here for $700k, when they were ready to move them all to Mexico to save money?

They were planning on moving those jobs to Mexico and train a whole new work force to save $823 per worker? For 40 cents an hour each?

There's something missing here.

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Response to ProfessorGAC (Reply #4)

Wed Nov 30, 2016, 05:50 PM

15. Very simple, two things

 

#1 - The jobs can always be sent to Mexico 2-5 years down the road.

#2 - Something else was quietly promised to them that will cost taxpayers millions more and also not be revealed for a few years.

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Response to stevenleser (Reply #15)

Wed Nov 30, 2016, 09:21 PM

22. Still Doesn't Pay

This story smells funny! The numbers make no sense no matter the scenario

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Response to ProfessorGAC (Reply #4)

Wed Nov 30, 2016, 06:07 PM

16. It sounds like they are keeping all the white collar executive jobs here that they were going to

keep anyway.
All the actual blue collar manufacturing jobs will go to Mexico, except for a small assembly/maintenance team up here probably to put larger units together before commercial installation.

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Response to ProfessorGAC (Reply #4)

Thu Dec 1, 2016, 03:02 PM

28. United Technologies

Carrier's parent...makes 56 billion dollars a year, of which 10% is from federal contracts, which includes jet engines made by Pratt-Whitney...another company owned by United Technologies!

Some would suspect that a deal was made, keep some of the Carrier jobs in the US, or lose 5 billion dollars!!! Extortion is such an ugly word, let's call it incentive!!!

That's my theory!

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Response to atreides1 (Reply #28)

Thu Dec 1, 2016, 04:36 PM

34. Yes, I Heard That. However. . .

. . .then what is the 700k (or 7 million as reported elsewhere) for?

They pretend to play hardball by threatening contracts and then pay them a pittance to...assuage hurt feelings? What?

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Response to VMA131Marine (Reply #2)

Thu Dec 1, 2016, 02:05 PM

25. Mass spent about $200 million to get GE

I think it ended up being over $200,000/job. While 200 jobs will move from Connecticut, there was nothing in the agreement stopping GE from moving the other 600 promised jobs from other locations in Massachusetts. The other 600 people at the Fairfield, CT location will be moving to nearby Norwalk, CT.

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Response to VMA131Marine (Reply #2)

Thu Dec 1, 2016, 03:04 PM

29. MSNBC just said it is $7 million in subsidies

I have no time to find out what the true numbers are.

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Response to csziggy (Reply #29)

Thu Dec 1, 2016, 04:34 PM

33. That Still Seems Low But Makes More Sense Than 700k (nt)

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Response to csziggy (Reply #29)

Thu Dec 1, 2016, 07:05 PM

38. Over 10 years...

Hence, $700k per year

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Response to deminks (Original post)

Wed Nov 30, 2016, 04:31 PM

3. Yeah, but Drumpf gets to puff out his man boobs and pretend like ...

he actually accomplished something other than providing a huge tax break to a multi-million corporation. YAY!

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Response to deminks (Original post)

Wed Nov 30, 2016, 04:34 PM

5. Fox News and Business channels are experiencing on-screen orgasms...

at what a remarkable change in American jobs this is after the last eight years under the Obama regime (can't quite remember beyond that).

And he's not even president yet!

Echoed in "every bar and restaurant in America."

That effing liberal media.

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Response to deminks (Original post)

Wed Nov 30, 2016, 04:41 PM

6. yup, it was a lie that was propogated by the MSM of course. 2100 jobs were slated to go

First they were only reporting that 1000 jobs saved. They did not report the full story, that over 2000 jobs were originally slated to go, and that meant 1100 jobs bye bye, with 1000 saved.

What originally was also planned was that 300 management type jobs would remain in Indiana. It is not clear if those 300 are included in the 1000 remaining here or not.

It is also not clear if the remaining production jobs will eventually be slated. I wouldn't count on the MSM to follow through a year from now


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Response to deminks (Original post)

Wed Nov 30, 2016, 04:43 PM

7. Thanks Trump!

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Response to deminks (Original post)

Wed Nov 30, 2016, 04:48 PM

8. How fucking stupid is the media. This isn't news. Governors do this stuff all the time.

The real question is why did Pence wait so long to do it? Tax incentives to stay or come to a state happens all the time.

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Response to RAFisher (Reply #8)

Thu Dec 1, 2016, 06:25 PM

36. Campaign Issue

Carrier would have stopped being a campaign issue the moment Pence made the deal. Pence refused to make a deal hoping Trump would win and the agreement could be used as a win for Trump. I agree with you. This stuff happens all the time and Pence could have done this deal months ago.

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Response to deminks (Original post)

Wed Nov 30, 2016, 04:49 PM

9. how stupid do you have to be to fall for this ridiculous story

oh and it just HAPPENS to be where Pence is from - gawd, it is so fucking STAGED

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Response to Skittles (Reply #9)

Wed Nov 30, 2016, 05:02 PM

10. Also, Skittles. . .

. . .as i said above, companies don't move to Mexico to save $823 per year per employee, so the $700k is a phony number meant to make Trump look like the "great negotiator". No way carrier keeps 850 jobs in the US for $700k.

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Response to ProfessorGAC (Reply #10)

Wed Nov 30, 2016, 07:16 PM

18. Carrier is a fucking photo op

time to research their "managers" - I bet they got more payoffs than tax breaks

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Response to Skittles (Reply #18)

Wed Nov 30, 2016, 09:20 PM

21. Or...

There is no deal at all or the tax breaks are 700 million, not thousand!

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Response to deminks (Original post)

Wed Nov 30, 2016, 05:06 PM

11. AND Carrier's parent company

bids on government contracts. How much did that influence them to agree.

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Response to Are_grits_groceries (Reply #11)

Wed Nov 30, 2016, 08:38 PM

20. Pretty much all companies the size of United Technologies do significant amounts of government work

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Response to deminks (Original post)

Wed Nov 30, 2016, 05:34 PM

13. This puppy was a pre arranged

stunt in order to pump Trump and Pence. And as usual,the GOP Media just hawked another stunt.

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Response to deminks (Original post)

Wed Nov 30, 2016, 05:49 PM

14. The localities and the state

will more than make that $700,000 year back in tax revenues by keeping the jobs there.

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Response to SickOfTheOnePct (Reply #14)

Thu Dec 1, 2016, 02:11 PM

26. How so?

Those 850 workers don't pay $700k in taxes annually & my guess is that services to those 850 wouldn't amount to nearly that either.

I'm not being snarky i just can't see the math.

If the city paid salaries to workers instead they'd make tax revenue there & it'll be cheaper.

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Response to katsy (Reply #26)

Thu Dec 1, 2016, 06:33 PM

37. 850 jobs

into $700,000 is $823 per job. You don't think between state income and sales tax each of those employees will pay $823 in taxes during the year? Plus, whatever they spend is helping jobs, which means more taxes.

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Response to SickOfTheOnePct (Reply #14)

Thu Dec 1, 2016, 03:08 PM

30. Not necessarily. Some states let corporations keep their employees' state taxes.

Indiana is one of those states. In many cases, the employees aren't even aware that their tax payments are being pocketed by their employer. I don't know if that's part of the agreement made with Carrier, but it could be.

https://thinkprogress.org/paying-your-boss-how-states-are-letting-corporations-pocket-their-workers-tax-payments-92e3cd70f74e#.dy8e17d0p

http://articles.chicagotribune.com/2014-02-07/site/ct-ace-hardware-wants-incentives-0207-biz--20140207_1_ace-hardware-tax-break-income-tax

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Response to deminks (Original post)

Wed Nov 30, 2016, 06:40 PM

17. K & R for exposure of another Don con. nt

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Response to deminks (Original post)

Wed Nov 30, 2016, 08:00 PM

19. He is not in office and Congress would have to change the tax laws

first. So I call BS. How can he have promised them anything?

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Response to treestar (Reply #19)

Wed Nov 30, 2016, 09:35 PM

23. Congress has nothing to do with state/local taxes n/t

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Response to SickOfTheOnePct (Reply #23)

Thu Dec 1, 2016, 04:31 PM

32. OK, so this is Indiana

Even so, can Pence just promise them something the legislature there has to approve?

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Response to deminks (Original post)

Wed Nov 30, 2016, 09:40 PM

24. These things never work well in the long run.

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Response to deminks (Original post)

Thu Dec 1, 2016, 02:32 PM

27. More and More info that comes out shows how bad this "deal" was for America.

Trump is a con man nothing more.

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Response to deminks (Original post)

Thu Dec 1, 2016, 03:13 PM

31. $700K is not too bad - compared to NY & other states...

"... $5.5 million that went to Remington Arms in the last five years. The incentives to Remington in New York are among $19.9 million given by nine states to makers of assault weapons in the last decade and were revealed in a list compiled by the Maine Center for Public Interest Reporting.

The $5.5 million that went to Remington and its parent company, Freedom Group, led to the consolidation of manufacturing plants in Massachusetts and Connecticut to Ilion, N.Y., where Remington has manufactured firearms for nearly 200 years.

They were down to close to 600 jobs and now they’ve more than doubled that,” says Sen. Jim Seward, Ilion's representative in the legislature. “These are good manufacturing jobs and obviously we want them to stay.”"


http://innovationtrail.org/post/millions-incentives-go-firearms-industry-new-york


Good for Cuomo et. al. to keep them there then - as of 2013. (they have since moved manufacturing to Alabama, "due to gun laws".


"Alabama gun plant
Remington Outdoor has exceeded its hiring and wage milestones at its new advanced manufacturing and research and development center in Huntsville.

A report from the Chamber of Commerce of Huntsville/Madison County shows the firearm maker had 324 employees as of Aug. 31 with an average hourly wage nearly $10 higher than stated in the development agreement between the company, City of Huntsville and state. Remington was required to create at least 280 full-time positions by the close of the second project year ending Feb. 28.

Remington, which is still hiring production team members through AIDT, received an extensive incentive package from the city, local counties and state to launch the $110 million plant on 100 Electronics Boulevard in Huntsville.
The company plans to rapidly ramp up hiring through the next decade:

680 employees by the end of 2016
1,018 employees by 2017
1,258 employees by 2018
1,498 employees by 2019
1,698 employees by 2020
1,868 employees by 2021"

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Response to deminks (Original post)

Thu Dec 1, 2016, 06:20 PM

35. Kinda Thought That

I was thinking about the numbers this morning and things did not add up. If they company was going to bring 1,300 to Mexico out of 2,000 jobs that did not add up to 1,000 jobs saved. Since people were saying 1,000 jobs would be saved, I thought maybe Carrier was only taking 1,000 jobs to Mexico.

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