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BainsBane

(53,001 posts)
Tue Nov 29, 2016, 02:28 PM Nov 2016

I've noticed some "progressives" seem to think Hillary owes them something

After their prolonged absence during the general election, they've appeared to attack her for not speaking out on this or that. Hillary owes you nothing. She put up her candidacy for president and lost. She was defeated, which is exactly what her detractors wanted. Not content with seeing her defeated in the GE, they stick the knife in and twist it. It would seem that decades long habit of directing their wrath toward one woman is difficult to break.

Here's the deal. She is now a private citizen. It's not her job, nor is it particularly appropriate, for her to speak out on any issue. She will never be president. She can spend the rest of her life walking her dog if she wants to. Her life is her own. She no longer has to be subject to the hatred and vitriol that the alt-"progressives" have directed at her non-stop since the GOP first told them what to think. The Trump wing of the "progressive" movement can direct their outrage toward the man they helped put in office. Maybe they can stop making excuses for fascism and ask about what he intends to do about Standing Rock, fracking, campaign financing, single payer, tuition-free education, or the other issues they claimed to care about until they decided issues really weren't important enough to keep them from supporting, either directly or through a third party vote, a fascist for president.

You vanquished the beast. Humanity has been saved from the scourge of her potential presidency. Move on to your next target while you keep making excuses for Rococo Hitler. You don't own Hillary, and she owes you exactly nothing.

Here we see the problem with a scapegoat. When she is gone, the people so invested in demonizing her are left without an outlet for the inner rage, and they find themselves flailing to cover up that emptiness.

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I've noticed some "progressives" seem to think Hillary owes them something (Original Post) BainsBane Nov 2016 OP
I have been wondering what they were going to do without her to focus hate on bravenak Nov 2016 #1
There are a lot of people across the political spectrum BainsBane Nov 2016 #2
They really did think they come with the I told you so shit and get applause bravenak Nov 2016 #4
Just understand that many of these people were desperate to lose. Buzz Clik Nov 2016 #10
I know but they disgust me so much I want them to know how evil they are bravenak Nov 2016 #14
plus1 Buzz Clik Nov 2016 #18
They come to gloat but the thing is...I dislike them so much I don't care what they think or say. Demsrule86 Nov 2016 #241
And it's so obvious who they are too. musicblind Nov 2016 #286
Indeed...why someone in bumscrew nowhere with a low population should have a great say Demsrule86 Dec 2016 #309
The fuhrer was unelectable too. nt Lucky Luciano Nov 2016 #24
Take home whatever message gives you comfort. I stand totally behind every one of my comments. Buzz Clik Nov 2016 #39
Clearly fuhrer was not unelectable and clearly, Bernie was. We had elections you know. Maru Kitteh Nov 2016 #49
If you want to win the whole thing, you need more independents than dems. Lucky Luciano Nov 2016 #59
After what we've just been thru I am totally opposed to open primaries. Hekate Nov 2016 #98
Yes! radical noodle Nov 2016 #102
Damn right! n/t musicblind Nov 2016 #287
X 1,000.000 charlyvi Nov 2016 #103
I am for same day voting registration. Gore1FL Nov 2016 #110
Ok...still gotta court the independents. They are the swing voters that decide. Lucky Luciano Nov 2016 #141
x1000 Fresh_Start Nov 2016 #188
Sure, because we need fewer votes! EOM sfwriter Nov 2016 #198
Indy voters are that in name only- they typically stick with one party... bettyellen Nov 2016 #101
Yes, but they are blocked from a lot of primaries. Like me in NY. nt Lucky Luciano Nov 2016 #125
Being asked to register does NOT equal being "blocked." BobbyDrake Nov 2016 #127
I want to be independent. Period. Always vote dem though. nt Lucky Luciano Nov 2016 #137
I want to win the lottery and live forever. Doesn't mean it's going to happen. BobbyDrake Nov 2016 #160
X 1000 Friend. These are the same kind of people who can't be bothered to RSVP to a nice party Maru Kitteh Nov 2016 #279
It's really good easy to register for a primary. No one stopped you from bettyellen Nov 2016 #138
I prefer to retain my independence. Lucky Luciano Nov 2016 #142
Well then, you've made the choice for yourself. Your primary vote is not important enough to bettyellen Nov 2016 #147
Then you are choosing to not vote in primaries mcar Nov 2016 #168
You have the independence to accept the hand-me-down candidate or not then. Your choice. fleabiscuit Nov 2016 #218
Then you're free to retain it rpannier Nov 2016 #223
No, absolutley not. Demsrule86 Nov 2016 #242
Wtf are you talking about? I voted for Hillary. Lucky Luciano Nov 2016 #247
In your illusions bernie was electable Fresh_Start Nov 2016 #191
Who are you talking to? Maru Kitteh Nov 2016 #203
Right he could not win a primary but he would take a general...let's see Demsrule86 Nov 2016 #243
He would have taken the independent vote. Lucky Luciano Nov 2016 #248
No he wouldn't. You are assuming the majority of independent voters lean left. Fla Dem Nov 2016 #251
We can only speculate of course. Lucky Luciano Nov 2016 #254
No he wouldn't ...given a choice between a populist (Trump) Demsrule86 Nov 2016 #271
Bernie wasn't elected BainsBane Nov 2016 #145
I had hoped they would all head over to JPR. Alas ... 11 Bravo Nov 2016 #124
I had hoped so too bravenak Nov 2016 #194
I hope Skinner calls an end to this fairly soon. There's a broad spectrum of DU Democrats who ... Hekate Nov 2016 #214
I agree that the grave dancers need to go sooner rather than later hueymahl Nov 2016 #275
My 82 year old father blue cat Nov 2016 #140
That's hilarious and somehow not surprising bravenak Nov 2016 #196
so close hfojvt Nov 2016 #229
Oh they will find someone...it is what they do and why we will continue to lose if we allow them Demsrule86 Nov 2016 #240
... NanceGreggs Nov 2016 #3
Well said Bains. sheshe2 Nov 2016 #5
k and r niyad Nov 2016 #6
K & R 1000 revmclaren Nov 2016 #7
Very well put. They're now wandering in the wilderness with no target to attack. Must be frustrating George II Nov 2016 #8
I've noticed some 'progressives' seem to do little but make broadbrush insults of the left, Marr Nov 2016 #9
Mission accomplished BainsBane Nov 2016 #16
What on earth are you talking about? Marr Nov 2016 #22
You responded to the OP as though it pertained to you BainsBane Nov 2016 #36
I suppose if you've heard nothing, then there's nothing to be heard... LanternWaste Nov 2016 #35
Then maybe the OP should point some of it out. Marr Nov 2016 #107
And now the repugs have access to every last one of the levers of power brush Nov 2016 #40
and Russian talking points BainsBane Nov 2016 #48
It's very depressing. Seems we can forget about undoing the gerrymandering in the 2020 census . . . brush Nov 2016 #63
I disagree about 2020 BainsBane Nov 2016 #65
That is about the only thing you have said in this thread that I agree with. mdbl Nov 2016 #116
I agree about not focusing only on the presidency . . . brush Nov 2016 #175
You're probably right BainsBane Nov 2016 #207
It may hinge on just how badly the republithugs fuck up everything. fleabiscuit Nov 2016 #219
Let's keep our fingers crossed. They've screwed up before many times. brush Nov 2016 #261
Don't forget, back in December Sanders operatives hacked the DNC computers, too, and admitted it! George II Nov 2016 #70
Then you aren't even reading the headlines on DU WhiteTara Nov 2016 #42
The looney white-privileged ASSHOLES that rooted/worked for Trump's victory are NOT the left. Maru Kitteh Nov 2016 #112
This right here sums up how I feel perfectly. BobbyDrake Nov 2016 #135
YUP. When you support the handover of our society to Trump by word or deed - you are NOT the left. Maru Kitteh Nov 2016 #146
Preach it Yo_Mama_Been_Loggin Nov 2016 #221
I take it you're with Chuck, 'we'll get moderate Republicans instead of traditional Dems' Schumer? Marr Nov 2016 #157
HRC's voters are the Democratic base. Maybe you should google the definition. BobbyDrake Nov 2016 #163
Those would be liberals then. Marr Nov 2016 #189
The base varies from state to state. Demsrule86 Nov 2016 #245
YES! betsuni Nov 2016 #150
WooHoo! Very well said. brush Nov 2016 #177
I especially like your last paragraph Hekate Nov 2016 #216
only the white privileged ones? hfojvt Nov 2016 #230
Wow. That was a seriously, embarrasingly, thin foil you drew there. Maru Kitteh Nov 2016 #283
actually something like 8 million non-white people voted for Trump hfojvt Nov 2016 #302
Feh. I notice you failed utterly to address your comment about white Clinton voters. Maru Kitteh Nov 2016 #306
No doubt about any of that! lonestarnot Nov 2016 #256
I could not have said it better. musicblind Nov 2016 #289
Helping give complete control of government to a party charlyvi Nov 2016 #114
Stop trying to blame the left for HRC's loss. Marr Nov 2016 #117
The assholes who sat on their ballots or supported Trump by voting for moonshots ARE NOT THE LEFT. Maru Kitteh Nov 2016 #128
We will blame whomever we think it is right to blame. Stop trying to tell us what to do. stevenleser Nov 2016 #130
I realize you do media, but to most people... Marr Nov 2016 #156
Do you actually think that the vitriolic attacks on Hillary from some on the left during the . . . brush Nov 2016 #181
Are you saying presidents should be annointed by party leaders? Marr Nov 2016 #183
And you said all that while ignoring all the "corporate whore, corrupt, criminal" name calling . . . brush Nov 2016 #190
Let's not be children, ok? Marr Nov 2016 #195
I was on this site during the whole primary campaign and I beg to differ brush Nov 2016 #197
I doubt this site had any impact on the election. /nt Marr Nov 2016 #202
Ahhhh . . . why do you think they hacked it? brush Nov 2016 #211
If you considered Stein or a write in... you aren't the left. musicblind Nov 2016 #291
Stein got zero electoral votes, and 1% of the popular vote. Marr Nov 2016 #293
That's a goofy statement, bordering on asinine. Maru Kitteh Nov 2016 #307
You're saying Jill Stein cost Hillary Clinton the election? Marr Dec 2016 #308
Interesting election takeaway. Am I to assume that we owe her an apology for letting her down? lumberjack_jeff Nov 2016 #11
Hell no. ismnotwasm Nov 2016 #15
Nobody owes anybody anything. Buzz Clik Nov 2016 #17
You don't owe her anything BainsBane Nov 2016 #30
You got exactly what you wanted in the nomination of Clinton. The rest are consequences. n/t lumberjack_jeff Nov 2016 #37
I exercised my vote BainsBane Nov 2016 #44
This!!! DemonGoddess Nov 2016 #57
Yup. I voted for her, too. Sadly, not enough people MineralMan Nov 2016 #66
Exactly ismnotwasm Nov 2016 #68
STANDS AND CHEERS! Maru Kitteh Nov 2016 #132
1, and the polls showed clearly that she was the wrong choice. Marr Nov 2016 #111
As opposed to the candidate who couldn't even beat the wrong choice? No chance of you convincing us stevenleser Nov 2016 #133
I don't think any honest observer could say that the DNC Marr Nov 2016 #155
Your antecedent is wrong so your consequent is also wrong. stevenleser Nov 2016 #167
This message was self-deleted by its author Marr Nov 2016 #186
Get real. Bernie would have been villified even worst about his socialist past. brush Nov 2016 #182
Pure fantasy on your part. /nt Marr Nov 2016 #185
Pure fantasy on your's to think it wouldn't have happened. brush Nov 2016 #192
No, sorry. Marr Nov 2016 #193
Yeah, right. Socialism is very popular with those who voted for Trump brush Nov 2016 #277
Exactly, not only that, the very voters Sanders had some strength with would have been most impacted stevenleser Nov 2016 #266
They are two very different kinds of elections. whopis01 Nov 2016 #239
They are different, but with an outcome very different than the one you posit stevenleser Nov 2016 #255
I disagree whopis01 Nov 2016 #259
You have no basis for that disagreement. stevenleser Nov 2016 #263
I absolutely do have basis for it. whopis01 Nov 2016 #269
Ignoring the facts I mentioned means you have no basis for your disagreement stevenleser Nov 2016 #303
Clinton didn't have enough of their support to make any difference. whopis01 Nov 2016 #304
1 jack_krass Nov 2016 #235
Enjoy the consequences then...personally I voted for Demsrule86 Nov 2016 #244
My swing state went for Clinton. joshcryer Nov 2016 #280
This is part of a long term trend; poor people are increasingly rural people. lumberjack_jeff Nov 2016 #284
Poor *white* people YoungDemCA Nov 2016 #288
Oh, right. Nevermind then. n/t lumberjack_jeff Nov 2016 #295
This is inevitable. joshcryer Nov 2016 #290
I'm intrigued when people say "women or whites" or "gays or whites" lumberjack_jeff Nov 2016 #298
Who's "we?" Did you, personally, "let her down?" MADem Nov 2016 #109
We owe ourselves an apology for letting ourselves down -- at least, pnwmom Nov 2016 #143
That is debatable INdemo Nov 2016 #222
Who do you think could have stopped him? The Libertarian? The Green Party? pnwmom Nov 2016 #232
Bernie Sanders INdemo Nov 2016 #258
No, writing him in in the General, as some people advocated, was a fool's errand pnwmom Nov 2016 #285
Have you ever given it any thought that Republicans have been organizing their game plan INdemo Nov 2016 #297
And they had a 2 foot thick folder of opposition research ready to go pnwmom Nov 2016 #299
last comment .... INdemo Nov 2016 #300
Yeah I noticed that too ismnotwasm Nov 2016 #12
I'm with you and the OP. BlueMTexpat Nov 2016 #74
Your use of the quotation marks in the OP was surgical. Buzz Clik Nov 2016 #13
This is a meaningless diatribe jimlup Nov 2016 #19
Yep melman Nov 2016 #23
I also like to pretend everything I fail to hear of is "totally made-up nonsense" as well. LanternWaste Nov 2016 #38
Oh melman Nov 2016 #43
Right after "progressives" stop bashing every other Democrat first. BobbyDrake Nov 2016 #25
Hillary lost to someone who never should've had a chance. Marr Nov 2016 #161
Post removed Post removed Nov 2016 #165
What is a 'Berniecrat', exactly? /nt Marr Nov 2016 #187
Thank you Jimlup! Nictuku Nov 2016 #31
Trump supporters are not progressives BainsBane Nov 2016 #32
99% of the people on this board voted for Hillary. progressoid Nov 2016 #80
Thread's not about progressives who voted for HRC. IE it isn't about YOU. emulatorloo Nov 2016 #89
If that's the case, this is an even more meaningless OP. progressoid Nov 2016 #96
10000 mdbl Nov 2016 #118
Depends on how you define "people on this board". If you include those who also have JPR accounts stevenleser Nov 2016 #136
I've never really been there. progressoid Nov 2016 #184
A creative bumper sticker that is for all intents and purposes, itself meaningless. LanternWaste Nov 2016 #41
And it belongs in the Postmortem forum. panader0 Nov 2016 #45
Yes DeeDeeNY Nov 2016 #84
Yup. n/t progressoid Nov 2016 #86
She owes us nothing that Mondale, Dukakis, Kerry and Gore don't also owe. n/t lumberjack_jeff Nov 2016 #20
kerry remained senator, so he was still in public office. La Lioness Priyanka Nov 2016 #33
They want her removed from power BainsBane Nov 2016 #50
i have a lot of these stein voters on facebook and now that hillary is defeated La Lioness Priyanka Nov 2016 #53
The toxic Left continues to fail to grasp that their addiction to attacking their own BobbyDrake Nov 2016 #21
Many are still doing it sad to say Yo_Mama_Been_Loggin Nov 2016 #220
Whaaargarrrble nt retrowire Nov 2016 #26
Wonderful, bains, and thank you! UtahLib Nov 2016 #27
Hillary does not owe anyone anything Txbluedog Nov 2016 #28
Bravo! 86derps Nov 2016 #58
"If Hillary doesn't want to continue fighting for liberal ideals then that is fine." WTF is that?! Hekate Nov 2016 #224
This hueymahl Nov 2016 #91
Sorry, you don't get to define the discussion. The fact that we got more votes is an important stevenleser Nov 2016 #166
Good luck with your current leadership. I think they have already rolled over. leftofcool Nov 2016 #170
You are absolutely correct. She would have made an excellent President...nt asuhornets Nov 2016 #29
yep world wide wally Nov 2016 #81
Anyone who thinks a politician owes them something because they voted for them is mistaken as the cstanleytech Nov 2016 #34
Post removed Post removed Nov 2016 #46
Tsk BainsBane Nov 2016 #47
So glad that you approve of T so much- what are you doing here then? Tumbulu Nov 2016 #55
Would you like the 300 dollar or the 500 dollar bottle of wine with your dinner? jalan48 Nov 2016 #64
you think that elected officials should be monks and nuns? Tumbulu Nov 2016 #71
No way. Monk's drink cheap wine. jalan48 Nov 2016 #75
No, I want the Lobster Sliders. emulatorloo Nov 2016 #82
I don't even know why you resent that. world wide wally Nov 2016 #85
It sounds like you would be more than willing. jalan48 Nov 2016 #92
Yeah sure. Are you offering? world wide wally Nov 2016 #100
I truly hope the leftynyc Nov 2016 #51
Dan Quayle ... LenaBaby61 Nov 2016 #54
Some of them are working hard to defend Trump BainsBane Nov 2016 #56
Worse than imbeciles leftynyc Nov 2016 #60
We've had a recent BainsBane Nov 2016 #69
Sadly they aren't Yo_Mama_Been_Loggin Nov 2016 #225
I'm glad they're gone leftynyc Nov 2016 #236
K&R! DemonGoddess Nov 2016 #52
What are examples of lefties saying HRC owes them something now? aikoaiko Nov 2016 #61
Someone posted an OP BainsBane Nov 2016 #62
I tend to agree with your post overall, but on the other hand, I would like to see her speak out Fast Walker 52 Nov 2016 #67
That is what losing candidates do BainsBane Nov 2016 #104
I would ASSUME AtheistCrusader Nov 2016 #78
I don't think Hillary is under any illusions that the recount Txbluedog Nov 2016 #88
So one poster said this and you went into a tirade LiberalLovinLug Nov 2016 #99
How am I kicking you around? BainsBane Nov 2016 #105
You aren't the only one who lost a once in a lifetime opportunity BainsBane Nov 2016 #113
But you are posting it in here! LiberalLovinLug Nov 2016 #121
I see. That helps me better understand your OP. aikoaiko Nov 2016 #173
That was really my point BainsBane Nov 2016 #176
Especially those that wrote in Sanders even after... Historic NY Nov 2016 #72
Another great post by Nance Gothmog Nov 2016 #73
Except I'm not Nance BainsBane Nov 2016 #77
Straw man here HassleCat Nov 2016 #76
Exactly. progressoid Nov 2016 #83
This hueymahl Nov 2016 #87
1000000! SammyWinstonJack Nov 2016 #246
k&r Starry Messenger Nov 2016 #79
I'm a progressive who worked to see her win. I just want her to win. I know she's best for ancianita Nov 2016 #90
Hillary supporters should admit the whole "She can't lose!" thing was wrong. Spitfire of ATJ Nov 2016 #93
We are apparently still in the "Anger" phase Gore1FL Nov 2016 #115
Actually, they're still in the "smugness" phase. Spitfire of ATJ Nov 2016 #120
I never said that BainsBane Nov 2016 #139
I heard it as the PRIME reason to select her at my caucus.... Spitfire of ATJ Nov 2016 #154
I also heard that we should support Bernie because he polled better BainsBane Nov 2016 #158
He polled better among independents which weren't allowed to vote in many primaries.... Spitfire of ATJ Nov 2016 #164
Well said, and thank you emulatorloo Nov 2016 #94
Plus a million or so. At least she and Bill and Chelsea can keep the Foundaion going.... Hekate Nov 2016 #95
I hope she spends a month on some lovely island mcar Nov 2016 #97
I understand the anger of the OP and many that replied, but Red Oak Nov 2016 #106
The attacks against her cut deep... JHan Nov 2016 #108
What an incredibly distorted, twisted, and polarizing assessment of reality. wundermaus Nov 2016 #119
If you don't vote Democrat, you aren't the base BainsBane Nov 2016 #122
If the Democratic base is only "people of color and single women".. Red Oak Nov 2016 #149
You wanted Trump and you got him. Now deal with it. leftofcool Nov 2016 #171
Who wants her to speak out? David__77 Nov 2016 #123
Post removed Post removed Nov 2016 #126
Well, thank goodness you got what you wanted BainsBane Nov 2016 #131
Being unable to read minds... you'll have to show me why that's so. FBaggins Nov 2016 #129
Pray tell, what does the party owe you? BainsBane Nov 2016 #134
Feel free to dodge the question in my post FBaggins Nov 2016 #144
I responded to that in another post in this thread BainsBane Nov 2016 #151
Well said JHan Nov 2016 #179
So what you're saying is... FBaggins Nov 2016 #212
K and r. nt cwydro Nov 2016 #148
Oooooh. So much greatness in this! Squinch Nov 2016 #152
Why bash progressives Warpy Nov 2016 #153
It's astounding the attachment to that word BainsBane Nov 2016 #174
You're the one who brought it up Warpy Nov 2016 #199
Two quibbles: Nevernose Nov 2016 #210
I may have missed the Sec./Sen. Clinton posts suggesting that she owes us anything. Nancyswidower Nov 2016 #159
Well actually not her, but i will wait a couple more years to see if it happens nolabels Nov 2016 #162
A fucking men! leftofcool Nov 2016 #169
I'm playing JPR bingo in this thread and I just need "neoliberal" to get bingo. betsuni Nov 2016 #172
Damn, no neoliberal? BainsBane Nov 2016 #180
LOL, also: coronation R B Garr Nov 2016 #249
Also too annointed and crowned. betsuni Nov 2016 #252
And billionaires! Something something billionaires something something R B Garr Nov 2016 #276
Don't forget DYNASTY! lol musicblind Nov 2016 #296
Convenient Recognizing Baine! ProfessorGAC Nov 2016 #178
I find it fascinating when some assume BainsBane Nov 2016 #200
I Find It Fascinating... ProfessorGAC Nov 2016 #237
I have been following JPR for a few months. I am now posting there under my DU name. guillaumeb Nov 2016 #201
Some voted for Trump directly BainsBane Nov 2016 #204
Agreed. Some respondents admitted that they voted for Trump, or Stein. guillaumeb Nov 2016 #205
Good for you BainsBane Nov 2016 #206
But if we do not talk among ourselves, what will happen? guillaumeb Nov 2016 #208
You're right, of course BainsBane Nov 2016 #209
Well said!!!! AgadorSparticus Nov 2016 #213
No outlet for their rage wildeyed Nov 2016 #215
K & R SunSeeker Nov 2016 #217
Any progressive still more focused on Clinton than the Racist-in-Chief is not actually a progressive LonePirate Nov 2016 #226
Clinton supporters included. Iggo Nov 2016 #265
K&R!!! lunamagica Nov 2016 #227
Thanks Bain, Hillary has spend a lot of time trying to help those who are not as fortunate as others Thinkingabout Nov 2016 #228
If you make progressives not welcome, they'll go find a party that doesn't rig things against them jfern Nov 2016 #231
She for damn sure owes them nothing but here's the thing with Hillary.. Cha Nov 2016 #233
Don't you want Progressives votes? ihaveaquestion Nov 2016 #234
I was/am a Bernie support/ progressive bec Nov 2016 #238
Hope you and all those Progressives have a nice life under Trump leftofcool Nov 2016 #253
edited. R B Garr Nov 2016 #250
It's heartbreaking for me to say this Politicub Nov 2016 #257
Yeah, me too. Ligyron Nov 2016 #272
Without a progressive wing, the Dem party is . . FairWinds Nov 2016 #260
I've seen the same thing - especially from the strong Clinton supporters whopis01 Nov 2016 #262
Clinton gave me the best she had and came up short. She doesn't owe me anything. (n/t) Iggo Nov 2016 #264
She tried really hard but lost. Owes? Jersey Devil Nov 2016 #267
As a strong supporter of Bernie tiredtoo Nov 2016 #268
I think she's doing a great job post election. hollowdweller Nov 2016 #270
Hillary Clinton owes me nothing. Fla Dem Nov 2016 #273
Ms. Clinton owes it to us to dismantle the DLC . . FairWinds Nov 2016 #274
Stronger Together senaca Nov 2016 #278
I actually hope she runs in 2020. joshcryer Nov 2016 #281
She won't. BainsBane Nov 2016 #292
I know. joshcryer Nov 2016 #294
I'm starting to think this site is the "bubble" that lost us the election. n/t sylvanus Nov 2016 #282
They can blame Obama for 2 more months WMDemocract Nov 2016 #301
Agreed kebob Nov 2016 #305

BainsBane

(53,001 posts)
2. There are a lot of people across the political spectrum
Tue Nov 29, 2016, 02:39 PM
Nov 2016

who must be feeling an aching emptiness after having devoted so much of their lives to destroying her.

 

bravenak

(34,648 posts)
4. They really did think they come with the I told you so shit and get applause
Tue Nov 29, 2016, 02:41 PM
Nov 2016

I will just let them know they are just as shitty as they always were. Helping Trump win made them so HAPPY. Trump is their president, I shall remind them they made that happen evertime they whine.

 

Buzz Clik

(38,437 posts)
10. Just understand that many of these people were desperate to lose.
Tue Nov 29, 2016, 03:00 PM
Nov 2016

They are only happy in their misery and in sharing misery with others.

Bernie was 100% unelectable, and they knew that, but Bernie losing was their ticket to once again being the "opposition party".

 

bravenak

(34,648 posts)
14. I know but they disgust me so much I want them to know how evil they are
Tue Nov 29, 2016, 03:01 PM
Nov 2016

I hope they enjoy the planned medicare phase out this summer

musicblind

(4,484 posts)
286. And it's so obvious who they are too.
Wed Nov 30, 2016, 03:29 PM
Nov 2016

They give it away with their love and defense of the Electoral College.

Demsrule86

(68,347 posts)
309. Indeed...why someone in bumscrew nowhere with a low population should have a great say
Thu Dec 1, 2016, 09:05 AM
Dec 2016

then people who live in New york or California is beyond me.

Maru Kitteh

(28,303 posts)
49. Clearly fuhrer was not unelectable and clearly, Bernie was. We had elections you know.
Tue Nov 29, 2016, 03:38 PM
Nov 2016

That's how we do these things. Pulling "woulda coulda" fantasy scenarios out of our ass is meaningless tripe.

Lucky Luciano

(11,242 posts)
59. If you want to win the whole thing, you need more independents than dems.
Tue Nov 29, 2016, 03:45 PM
Nov 2016

Everyone made fun of the fuhrer's candidacy and how unelectable he was...and yet, here we are. That was my point.

Bernie had the indies, but not the democrats (in the primaries - post primaries he gets the democrats ).

This is why independents should be allowed to vote in primaries - more likely to get a democrat who can win the whole thing.

There are far more independents than democrats (and republicans).

Hekate

(90,189 posts)
98. After what we've just been thru I am totally opposed to open primaries.
Tue Nov 29, 2016, 04:37 PM
Nov 2016

Let them form their own damn party and fund it.

Gore1FL

(21,027 posts)
110. I am for same day voting registration.
Tue Nov 29, 2016, 05:01 PM
Nov 2016

That, inherently, requires open primaries.

Additionally, the mathematical setup of our presidential election causes a two-party election. Differently than a parliamentary system, our process creates coalitions before the election rather than thereafter. To eliminate members of our natural coalition from voting is self-defeating, and leads to outcomes like we have just seen.

Same-day registration, open primaries, and making it generally easier to cast a ballot is the ideal for a functioning democracy/republic.

Lucky Luciano

(11,242 posts)
141. Ok...still gotta court the independents. They are the swing voters that decide.
Tue Nov 29, 2016, 06:29 PM
Nov 2016

I am an independent that always votes democratically. Other indies always vote independent. The swing voters are probably 25% of the indies. Appealing to them helps.

 

bettyellen

(47,209 posts)
101. Indy voters are that in name only- they typically stick with one party...
Tue Nov 29, 2016, 04:49 PM
Nov 2016

And I can't believe you'd think any Dem can win an election without Dems. It was a squeaker, let's not buy into this "landslide" nonsense because it suits you to.

 

BobbyDrake

(2,542 posts)
127. Being asked to register does NOT equal being "blocked."
Tue Nov 29, 2016, 06:16 PM
Nov 2016

Don't blame the system because you can't fill out a form by a deadline.

 

BobbyDrake

(2,542 posts)
160. I want to win the lottery and live forever. Doesn't mean it's going to happen.
Tue Nov 29, 2016, 07:19 PM
Nov 2016

Fun Fact: The United States electoral process does not revolve around your petty demands.

Grow up and deal with it already.

Maru Kitteh

(28,303 posts)
279. X 1000 Friend. These are the same kind of people who can't be bothered to RSVP to a nice party
Wed Nov 30, 2016, 02:43 PM
Nov 2016

And spend the next decade bitching about what "assholes" the caterer/family/servers were because they were forced to settle for free chicken instead of prime rib.

 

bettyellen

(47,209 posts)
138. It's really good easy to register for a primary. No one stopped you from
Tue Nov 29, 2016, 06:23 PM
Nov 2016

Voting. It's crappy to even throw that out when thousands who wanted to vote are thrown off the rolls.
It's not a perfect system but people who do jack shot about it, can't really complain. The endless complaints from people about what the DNC does and doesn't do we're also coming from people who sit on the sidelines crying it's not perfect when they never bothered to pay attention before.

 

bettyellen

(47,209 posts)
147. Well then, you've made the choice for yourself. Your primary vote is not important enough to
Tue Nov 29, 2016, 06:37 PM
Nov 2016

Overcome your symbolic gesture of distain for the system.
You're blocking yourself.

mcar

(42,206 posts)
168. Then you are choosing to not vote in primaries
Tue Nov 29, 2016, 07:46 PM
Nov 2016

It's that simple.

Meanwhile, thousands of people were disenfranchised.

rpannier

(24,304 posts)
223. Then you're free to retain it
Wed Nov 30, 2016, 12:49 AM
Nov 2016

That doesn't mean you should get to vote in any party's primary
You made a decision and you know the costs

Demsrule86

(68,347 posts)
242. No, absolutley not.
Wed Nov 30, 2016, 09:35 AM
Nov 2016

I live in a state that has open primaries...and GOP types will screw with our primaries which really hurts at the state level. You don't want to join with Democrats...then stay out in the cold and live with the GOP policy...I hope you are over 55 because otherwise...no more medicare for you. Democrats are the only ones who can get progressive policy through...Drumpt will get what Ryan says he gets through...no more and no less. We have a two party system...and that is not a bad thing. If you look at multiple parties...the minority party often ends up running the show...thus millions have no voice...so as far as I am concerned if your independence leads you to vote GOP or loser third party then do so...but don't kid yourself as to what you are. You are not left.

Lucky Luciano

(11,242 posts)
247. Wtf are you talking about? I voted for Hillary.
Wed Nov 30, 2016, 10:08 AM
Nov 2016

I was clear about always voting for dems. I have never voted third party and never voted thug.

Let indies vote in primaries. Indies are the plurality. We need a candidate that appeals to indies. I do not believe the bullshit about thugs messing in our open primaries. Sure, a few might try, but then they are blocked from their primaries. Maybe if s republican incumbent is running, I can see your point, but I don't agree when there is no incumbent.

Fresh_Start

(11,330 posts)
191. In your illusions bernie was electable
Tue Nov 29, 2016, 08:39 PM
Nov 2016

while I have no doubt that bernie appealed to some of the deplorables...he did not appeal to all democrats.

I'm sure you are in denial but Bernie helped engineer the Trump victory.
And the fact that bernie supporters can not understand that is why the democratic party will continue to be an also ran party

Demsrule86

(68,347 posts)
243. Right he could not win a primary but he would take a general...let's see
Wed Nov 30, 2016, 09:37 AM
Nov 2016

we have a media designated 'socialist' (yeah Bernie would have been vetted ok and lied about too) and a populist who is the media darling...we would have lost the popular vote too.

Lucky Luciano

(11,242 posts)
248. He would have taken the independent vote.
Wed Nov 30, 2016, 10:17 AM
Nov 2016

The democrats that wanted Hillary would have fallen in line.

Even the republicans in Vermont like him.

Fla Dem

(23,339 posts)
251. No he wouldn't. You are assuming the majority of independent voters lean left.
Wed Nov 30, 2016, 10:33 AM
Nov 2016

They cover the entire political spectrum.

Lucky Luciano

(11,242 posts)
254. We can only speculate of course.
Wed Nov 30, 2016, 10:43 AM
Nov 2016

Indies do span a big range, but they need to be appealed to. There are simply more of them. That is not debatable. It is fact.

After Brexit, Syriza in Greece, Greek referendum, Bernie's wins in the rust belt, and other highly antiestablishment surprises, we should have anticipated better.


Maybe Hillary's data "scientists" were muppets. I would consider donating my time as a mathematician to democratic efforts. Donating money requires a lengthy compliance process for my work - and it would include disclosing my political leanings which I prefer not to do.

Demsrule86

(68,347 posts)
271. No he wouldn't ...given a choice between a populist (Trump)
Wed Nov 30, 2016, 12:31 PM
Nov 2016

and a guy who would have been painted as the second coming of Stalin...they would have picked Trump...you can't run if you can't win a primary. And don't tell me it is the DNC's fault...because people voted and he lost. It really is that simple and when Dems realize that you vote for who you want in a primary but vote for the person with the D next to his name in the election, we will win again. As for independents....seriously, they just help the GOP.

Hekate

(90,189 posts)
214. I hope Skinner calls an end to this fairly soon. There's a broad spectrum of DU Democrats who ...
Tue Nov 29, 2016, 10:42 PM
Nov 2016

....are still grieving and beginning to plan what to do next. There is a much smaller percentage who are pretty much grave-dancing for our loss. That small number of posters is, alas, very active and noisy.

At some point, Skinner said at the outset, those few people will be asked to shape up or ship out to the numerous other options they have for posting their nonproductive opinions.

DU will not be an echo-chamber without them. Seriously.

hueymahl

(2,414 posts)
275. I agree that the grave dancers need to go sooner rather than later
Wed Nov 30, 2016, 12:59 PM
Nov 2016

But I do fear the echo chamber effect.

DU WAS and echo chamber during the general. In hindsight, we were about as self-deluded as possible without being on drugs.

Not that what is said here has any significant effect in the real world, but I for one appreciate a vigorous debate, ESPECIALLY with those I fundamentally disagree with. I usually learn something.

blue cat

(2,415 posts)
140. My 82 year old father
Tue Nov 29, 2016, 06:29 PM
Nov 2016

Is still watching anti-Hillary videos. It's like he doesn't know who to hate now.

Demsrule86

(68,347 posts)
240. Oh they will find someone...it is what they do and why we will continue to lose if we allow them
Wed Nov 30, 2016, 09:29 AM
Nov 2016

to call the shots...any shots.

 

Marr

(20,317 posts)
9. I've noticed some 'progressives' seem to do little but make broadbrush insults of the left,
Tue Nov 29, 2016, 02:59 PM
Nov 2016

no matter what happens.

I haven't heard people on the left demanding anything of Hillary Clinton and other corporate Democrats, besides suggestions that they go away or be removed from the levers of power within the party. And that seems quite reasonable to me at this point.

BainsBane

(53,001 posts)
16. Mission accomplished
Tue Nov 29, 2016, 03:01 PM
Nov 2016

Give yourself a round of applause. You got everything you wanted.

Notice I no where used the term left. There is nothing leftist about support for a billionaire fascist or the profound ignorance of history that leads to comments like "corporate" Dems. I'm still waiting for someone--anyone, to tell me when the party wasn't led by "corporatists."

 

Marr

(20,317 posts)
22. What on earth are you talking about?
Tue Nov 29, 2016, 03:07 PM
Nov 2016

You're accusing me, personally, of wanting Hillary Clinton to lose now? Do you realize how loony and juvenile that sounds?

And I'm sorry if you don't like it, but Hillary Clinton is the very definition of 'corporate Democrat'. If that isn't obvious to you, then your search for people to blame for the party's losses should begin with a mirror.

BainsBane

(53,001 posts)
36. You responded to the OP as though it pertained to you
Tue Nov 29, 2016, 03:19 PM
Nov 2016

I didn't address it to you. You came along and claimed some relationship to the type I critiqued.

You haven't answered my question of when the party wasn't led by corporatists. I assume that is because you cannot.
What makes Hillary more of a corporatist than the Democrats who preceded her? What is so unique about her that sets her apart from the rest of the party, both currently and historically?

As for being removed from the levers of power, the election accomplished that. That point should be obvious even to this self-described "left" who for some inexplicable reason hasn't figured that out. And if that's the case, there is no reason to demand she respond to current political developments, is there?

 

LanternWaste

(37,748 posts)
35. I suppose if you've heard nothing, then there's nothing to be heard...
Tue Nov 29, 2016, 03:18 PM
Nov 2016

I suppose if you've heard nothing, then there's simply nothing to be heard...

 

Marr

(20,317 posts)
107. Then maybe the OP should point some of it out.
Tue Nov 29, 2016, 04:58 PM
Nov 2016

Or you could, since you seem to be in agreement.

Do you have any examples of progressives claiming that HRC "owes them" something?

brush

(53,467 posts)
40. And now the repugs have access to every last one of the levers of power
Tue Nov 29, 2016, 03:21 PM
Nov 2016

White House, Senate, House, and soon 3-4 SCOTUS appointments.

Nice job done on trashing Hillary with repug talking points throughout the campaign.

BainsBane

(53,001 posts)
48. and Russian talking points
Tue Nov 29, 2016, 03:34 PM
Nov 2016

as we have since learned that the Russians hired trolls to pose as Bernie supporters and spread propaganda against Clinton.
So we were exposed to them, even though we didn't know it at the time.

brush

(53,467 posts)
63. It's very depressing. Seems we can forget about undoing the gerrymandering in the 2020 census . . .
Tue Nov 29, 2016, 03:48 PM
Nov 2016

as the repugs will undoubtedly run amuck with their bull-in-the-chinashop tactics.

Comey, the Russains, Assange — they all lined up against us and hacked the election just as they did Hillary's and the DNC's emails. And to those who think Bernie would have fared better . . . nah, he would have suffered the same thing.

The Comey blindside was the most damaging. That tipped the election to Trump.

We just have to keep our heads down and watch what unfolds to be able to figure out how to fight back as it's going to be a long winter.

BainsBane

(53,001 posts)
65. I disagree about 2020
Tue Nov 29, 2016, 03:50 PM
Nov 2016

I think we need to work hard at the state level. Maybe we won't get enough Democrats in state legislatures and governors offices by 2020, but we will by 2030 if we keep at it. People need to quit focusing on the presidency to the exclusion of the rest of government. It's destructive to the party and the nation.

brush

(53,467 posts)
175. I agree about not focusing only on the presidency . . .
Tue Nov 29, 2016, 08:02 PM
Nov 2016

Last edited Tue Nov 29, 2016, 10:18 PM - Edit history (1)

but with no significant numbers gains in the House in the election to cut the repug advantage, it's doubtful that we can erase their majority in 2018 to gain control of redistricting for the 2020 census.

We do have to face the fact that the repugs, with their cheating (Comey's underhandedness, Russians and Assange helping to hack emails and very likely vote totals) have an unprecedented advantage.

I'm not advocating not working for victories in state and local elections as we have to head off the repug advantage in statehouses and in state legislatures because they are but three or four states short from being able to push through Constitutional amendments.

And we know whatever they come up with will drastically change the country, as well as cement permanent control for themselves.

BainsBane

(53,001 posts)
207. You're probably right
Tue Nov 29, 2016, 09:51 PM
Nov 2016

but I think we have to work for it. Otherwise we just surrender to them, and that isn't acceptable.

fleabiscuit

(4,542 posts)
219. It may hinge on just how badly the republithugs fuck up everything.
Wed Nov 30, 2016, 12:24 AM
Nov 2016

Or even talking about fucking with popular programs. An angry electorate could change the situation dramatically in 2018.

George II

(67,782 posts)
70. Don't forget, back in December Sanders operatives hacked the DNC computers, too, and admitted it!
Tue Nov 29, 2016, 03:59 PM
Nov 2016

WhiteTara

(29,676 posts)
42. Then you aren't even reading the headlines on DU
Tue Nov 29, 2016, 03:24 PM
Nov 2016

I just responded to one such "Why isn't Hillary speaking out" Shit. She did speak out. She ran for president and now she has been silenced. She is a private citizen and the progressive, far left need to speak out now.

Maru Kitteh

(28,303 posts)
112. The looney white-privileged ASSHOLES that rooted/worked for Trump's victory are NOT the left.
Tue Nov 29, 2016, 05:03 PM
Nov 2016

Voted for Stein? Pulled the lever for Trump? Happy that HRC was denied?

If this fits anyone reading this; then you are the very kind of scum-bucket who has done damage to this country that will not be repaired for a generation or more and you are most decidedly NOT THE LEFT.

You knew he was the KKK kandidate.
You heard the tape of on the bus bragging about sexual assault against women.
You saw the misogyny.
You saw the racism.
You saw the bigotry.
You knew he was anti-climate, anti-environmental, anti-green.
You knew he was against the protection of public land.
You knew he promises to "lift restrictions on the production" of fracking shale, oil, natural gas, offshore drilling and coal.
You knew he was against the minimum wage, let alone raising it.
You knew he was against public education.
You knew he encouraged and reveled in violence.
You knew his stance on nuclear proliferation and his desire to actually USE nuclear weapons.
You knew he promises to start wars over rude hand gestures.
You knew he intends to target vulnerable inner-city communities for quasi-martial law and profiling.
You KNEW will yank healthcare away from millions of vulnerable people.
You knew he would privatize everything he can get his hands on, particularly where he & friends will profit.
You knew he would use this office as a personal money press.
You KNEW he would install draconian ideologues onto the SCOTUS, impacting up to 4 decades of public life, hurting women, minorities and the most vulnerable among us.
You KNEW.
You knew.

You knew and yet still you allowed your hateful lunacy to rule you. You sold the helpless millions around you down the river for the sake of your vanity and spite. YOU are not the "left." You are the empty-headed, useful tools of the right.

We who voted to protect love, to protect health, to improve education, to raise wages, to work towards social and economic justice, to protect the Earth - WE are the left. If you refused to vote for HRC and see yourself in this post, you have proven yourselves otherwise, and on behalf of the country and the planet, we invite you to go perform anatomically impossible acts upon yourself without lubrication.

 

BobbyDrake

(2,542 posts)
135. This right here sums up how I feel perfectly.
Tue Nov 29, 2016, 06:21 PM
Nov 2016

HRC's supporters are the real "base" of the Democratic Party. Were the ones who support our party and nominee through thick AND thin. Were the ones who vote in midterms! This is OUR party, and these LWNJs need to stop trying to tell us how to run it.

Jill Stein flunkies are debased, not "the base."

Maru Kitteh

(28,303 posts)
146. YUP. When you support the handover of our society to Trump by word or deed - you are NOT the left.
Tue Nov 29, 2016, 06:37 PM
Nov 2016

Those insidious slime who insist on infesting our party are not the left. They have proved more harmful to democracy, equality and progressive ideals than the forces of the openly right, and it's time we woke up and hit the eject button.



 

Marr

(20,317 posts)
157. I take it you're with Chuck, 'we'll get moderate Republicans instead of traditional Dems' Schumer?
Tue Nov 29, 2016, 07:11 PM
Nov 2016

What kind of idiot thinks the base of their party is the base of the other party?

No wonder she lost.

 

BobbyDrake

(2,542 posts)
163. HRC's voters are the Democratic base. Maybe you should google the definition.
Tue Nov 29, 2016, 07:24 PM
Nov 2016
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Base_(politics)
In politics, the term base refers to a group of voters who almost always support a single party's candidates for elected office. Base voters are very unlikely to vote for the candidate of an opposing party, regardless of the specific views each candidate holds.


People who flirt with third parties, announce they won't vote for a party's nominee, or write in a losing primary candidate instead of the party's nominee are the real fucking idiots, because they're deluding themselves into thinking that they're anyone's base at all. Fuck that whiny diaperbaby mentality, and fuck every "progressive" who shits on the Democratic Party and then tries to call themselves the "base." Such people don't deserve to be allowed to participate in party functions, much less smear actual base members from their holier-than-thou perches.
 

Marr

(20,317 posts)
189. Those would be liberals then.
Tue Nov 29, 2016, 08:39 PM
Nov 2016

You do realize the self-described 'moderate' Hillary crowd are the ones who didn't even bother showing up in 2012, right?

You can hate liberals all you like. But they come out to support Dems much more reliably than your own crowd.

Demsrule86

(68,347 posts)
245. The base varies from state to state.
Wed Nov 30, 2016, 09:44 AM
Nov 2016

The GOP knows this hence Peter King in the North East and Cruz in Texas. In order to win Majorities, some center-left will be elected in Southern and some purple states. I am a liberal through and through, but I know there others in my state and in other states that don't agree with me...I want to win. Better to have the majority with a few elected who are not 'pure' than to be a permanent minority.

hfojvt

(37,573 posts)
230. only the white privileged ones?
Wed Nov 30, 2016, 02:40 AM
Nov 2016

Thank goodness all the non-white people who voted for Trump or for 3rd parties or didn't bother to show up are off the hook.

And never mind that 55% of Hillary voters had white privilege.

Maru Kitteh

(28,303 posts)
283. Wow. That was a seriously, embarrasingly, thin foil you drew there.
Wed Nov 30, 2016, 02:58 PM
Nov 2016

"all the non-white people who voted for Trump or 3rd parties" Yeah, I'll bet if we tried real hard we could fit almost all of those folks on my lawn.

"never mind that 55% of Hillary voters had white privilege"

Seriously? Did you think before you wrote that? Did those white Hillary voters throw away a vote at a moonshot because their white privilege insulates them from the worst consequences of a Trump administration like deportations, profiling, racial and religious bigotry, etc.?

Did those white Hillary voters cast a vote for hate? for misogyny? for bigotry? Did they vote for the stunning ignorance and incompetence of the incoming administration? Did they vote for a SCOTUS that will undo decades of liberal social progress? Uh no. I repeat myself; They voted to protect love, to protect health, to improve education, to raise wages, to work towards social and economic justice, to protect the Earth.

WE are the left.






hfojvt

(37,573 posts)
302. actually something like 8 million non-white people voted for Trump
Wed Nov 30, 2016, 05:26 PM
Nov 2016

more than enough to tip the electoral college.

7% of all white male voters voted for a 3rd party candidate, but so did 6% of latino women. 37% of latino men either voted for Trump or a 3rd party and so did 39% of other non-white ethnicities (who were 6% of the electorate)

Perhaps you could save some of your hate for them.

And if you want to hate white people, as you seem to, well, just pointing out that perhaps some of your best friends are white.

But you almost convinced me. Perhaps if you had included three more smileys that would have done the trick

Maru Kitteh

(28,303 posts)
306. Feh. I notice you failed utterly to address your comment about white Clinton voters.
Wed Nov 30, 2016, 09:17 PM
Nov 2016

And I also notice you fail to source your information.


As for me,
I hate people who sold the rest of us down the river for their own vanity because they enjoy privilege the rest of us do not. I didn't seek you out as an example, but you seem to count yourself in that number. I stand by all of my sentiments.

musicblind

(4,484 posts)
289. I could not have said it better.
Wed Nov 30, 2016, 03:40 PM
Nov 2016

Your critique of the Stein voters and Busters is dead on. They own this and we will never let them forget it.

charlyvi

(6,537 posts)
114. Helping give complete control of government to a party
Tue Nov 29, 2016, 05:09 PM
Nov 2016

unabashedly for the wealthiest among us (anti O'care, SS, Medicare, Workers Comp, etc.) to protest "corporate" Democrats was profoundly nihilist and downright stupid. When millions become uninsured, coat hanger abortions make a comeback, SS gets turned over to Wall Street, the elderly have to pay a fortune beyond any "premium support" for their health care, the wealthy get much, much richer, climate change is ignored and the Mideast explodes as NATO disintegrates, I hope these special people whose "integrity" just could not be compromised one iota take comfort in the fact that their when the society around them implodes. Just another fucking example of good intentions paving the way to hell.

 

Marr

(20,317 posts)
117. Stop trying to blame the left for HRC's loss.
Tue Nov 29, 2016, 05:17 PM
Nov 2016

The DNC cost the Democratic Party the election. I can't stand these inevitable attempts to blame the left for the predictable losses of corporate Democrats. It only provides cover for the people who *actually* lost it, and assures we'll go on losing.

Maru Kitteh

(28,303 posts)
128. The assholes who sat on their ballots or supported Trump by voting for moonshots ARE NOT THE LEFT.
Tue Nov 29, 2016, 06:18 PM
Nov 2016

I repeat myself for those hard of hearing:

If this fits anyone reading this;
then you are the very kind of scum-bucket who has done damage to this country that will not be repaired for a generation or more and you are most decidedly NOT THE LEFT.

You knew he was the KKK kandidate.
You heard the tape of on the bus bragging about sexual assault against women.
You saw the misogyny.
You saw the racism.
You saw the bigotry.
You knew he was anti-climate, anti-environmental, anti-green.
You knew he was against the protection of public land.
You knew he promises to "lift restrictions on the production" of fracking shale, oil, natural gas, offshore drilling and coal.
You knew he was against the minimum wage, let alone raising it.
You knew he was against public education.
You knew he encouraged and reveled in violence.
You knew his stance on nuclear proliferation and his desire to actually USE nuclear weapons.
You knew he promises to start wars over rude hand gestures.
You knew he intends to target vulnerable inner-city communities for quasi-martial law and profiling.
You KNEW will yank healthcare away from millions of vulnerable people.
You knew he would privatize everything he can get his hands on, particularly where he & friends will profit.
You knew he would use this office as a personal money press.
You KNEW he would install draconian ideologues onto the SCOTUS, impacting up to 4 decades of public life, hurting women, minorities and the most vulnerable among us.
You KNEW.
You knew.

You knew and yet still you allowed your hateful lunacy to rule you. You sold the helpless millions around you down the river for the sake of your vanity and spite. YOU are not the "left." You are the empty-headed, useful tools of the right.

We who voted to protect love, to protect health, to improve education, to raise wages, to work towards social and economic justice, to protect the Earth - WE are the left. If you refused to vote for HRC and see yourself in this post, you have proven yourselves otherwise, and on behalf of the country and the planet, we invite you to go perform anatomically impossible acts upon yourself without lubrication.

 

stevenleser

(32,886 posts)
130. We will blame whomever we think it is right to blame. Stop trying to tell us what to do.
Tue Nov 29, 2016, 06:19 PM
Nov 2016

We will call it as we see it. You do the same.

 

Marr

(20,317 posts)
156. I realize you do media, but to most people...
Tue Nov 29, 2016, 07:07 PM
Nov 2016

...making these sorts of claims in the face of evidence to the contrary is called lying.

brush

(53,467 posts)
181. Do you actually think that the vitriolic attacks on Hillary from some on the left during the . . .
Tue Nov 29, 2016, 08:16 PM
Nov 2016

the primaries (corporate whore, criminal, corrupt, etc.) didn't influence some to stay home, vote 3rd party or even vote for Trump?

Of course all that unprecedented trashing of a fellow Dem had a tremendous effect on the outcome of the election.

There were many posters here who posted over and over that they would never vote for her.

It was only three weeks ago. Memories are not that short. We remember.

 

Marr

(20,317 posts)
183. Are you saying presidents should be annointed by party leaders?
Tue Nov 29, 2016, 08:30 PM
Nov 2016

We have elections in this country. Hillary had it much easier than most presidential candidates, since there was a broad understanding among the political establishment that anyone who ran against her would be actively opposed by not only her unprecedentedly well-funded campaign, but the political machine itself. As a result, she only had one serious contender to campaign against-- a72 year old Jewish socialist with zero name recognition.

And THAT was too much opposition? Really?

brush

(53,467 posts)
190. And you said all that while ignoring all the "corporate whore, corrupt, criminal" name calling . . .
Tue Nov 29, 2016, 08:39 PM
Nov 2016

that came out of that 72 year old Jewish socialist's campaign — who has now basically "unfriended" the Democratic Party and returned to being an independent.

Some Democrat, huh?

Lesson learned. We should never, ever, ever let a non-party member run in our primaries again.

 

Marr

(20,317 posts)
195. Let's not be children, ok?
Tue Nov 29, 2016, 08:48 PM
Nov 2016

Backers of both candidates traded insults.

Sanders' actual campaign was unusually positive and easy-going on the opposition. I can't say the same for the Hillary campaign. But I'll happily put all that aside, so long you don't try to climb up on a cross and play the poor, attacked innocent.

Your candidate had to *shock* campaign for the nomination rather than being crowned. If democracy was too much of a burden for her to survive, then you had a very weak candidate.

brush

(53,467 posts)
197. I was on this site during the whole primary campaign and I beg to differ
Tue Nov 29, 2016, 08:54 PM
Nov 2016

I well remember the Bernie Bros and the "Stockholm Syndrome poster and many, many others.

This place was dominated by Bernie posters, with many insulting Clinton.

Come on, it was not that long ago. Sanders himself was mostly cordial towards Hillary but many of his supporters on this site, no way.

musicblind

(4,484 posts)
291. If you considered Stein or a write in... you aren't the left.
Wed Nov 30, 2016, 03:44 PM
Nov 2016

The people who stood up and placed their vote to stop Trump are the left.

 

Marr

(20,317 posts)
293. Stein got zero electoral votes, and 1% of the popular vote.
Wed Nov 30, 2016, 03:50 PM
Nov 2016

They did not cost HRC the election. Hillary, her campaign, and the DNC cost Hillary the election.

BainsBane

(53,001 posts)
30. You don't owe her anything
Tue Nov 29, 2016, 03:14 PM
Nov 2016

Your use of the term we would seem to mean that you take the OP as a comment on yourself, so since you adopt that view I will respond accordingly. I can only presume you--or to whomever my OP applies--got exactly what you wanted in the election of Trump. Congratulations. America is finally great again. They can enjoy every hate crime committed in Trump's name, every person who loses their medical coverage and every future retiree whose social security fund is about to be turned over to Wall Street, as well as the future generations who will face the ravages of unchecked global warming. I can only presume people who made that choice did so in support of such goals and that they will take pleasure from the suffering that results. Fascism is what fascism does.

Why such Trump supporters maintain a pretense of being Democrats, I can't being to imagine. If they signed the TOS after not voting for Clinton, they've proven themselves to be inherently dishonest and lacking in courage of conviction.

BainsBane

(53,001 posts)
44. I exercised my vote
Tue Nov 29, 2016, 03:25 PM
Nov 2016

something that still, for the time being, is my right. You exercised yours. I didn't vote for a fascist. I voted for a liberal with a robust plan to regulate Wall Street, to wean the country off fossil fuels, to debt free college and systemic K-12 reform to address inequality, for someone who would make supreme court appointments favorable to campaign finance reform, women's rights, voting rights, and LGBT rights. Those who didn't vote for her chose racism, misogyny and ethnic/religious hatred. They chose ignorance and incompetence. They showed that in fact they do not support progressive programs and instead want to see the country steeped in hatred. That is precisely what they got. Fascism is as fascism does.

MineralMan

(146,189 posts)
66. Yup. I voted for her, too. Sadly, not enough people
Tue Nov 29, 2016, 03:54 PM
Nov 2016

in enough states did that, and we have the current situation. It's very unfortunate that such a thing happened, and we'll all get to observe the result of those non-votes for the Democratic nominee.

I don't know which individuals failed to vote for the Democratic nominee. That's water under the bridge. But, what is clear is that not enough did vote for her to get her enough electoral votes.

More's the pity, isn't it? As the teacher said in "A Christmas Story" after the frozen tongue incident, "They know their blame..."

 

Marr

(20,317 posts)
111. 1, and the polls showed clearly that she was the wrong choice.
Tue Nov 29, 2016, 05:02 PM
Nov 2016

But her fans plowed on regardless. Now they want to blame everyone but themselves and their candidate.

Wish I could say it was surprising.

 

stevenleser

(32,886 posts)
133. As opposed to the candidate who couldn't even beat the wrong choice? No chance of you convincing us
Tue Nov 29, 2016, 06:20 PM
Nov 2016

of that.

But you keep believing what makes you comfortable.

 

Marr

(20,317 posts)
155. I don't think any honest observer could say that the DNC
Tue Nov 29, 2016, 07:03 PM
Nov 2016

didn't slant the field against Sanders.

We all ended up paying for the party establishment's decision to shoehorn their preferred candidate into the nomination.

 

stevenleser

(32,886 posts)
167. Your antecedent is wrong so your consequent is also wrong.
Tue Nov 29, 2016, 07:40 PM
Nov 2016

The DNC was impartial enough so that they did not affect the vote or result.

Any belief otherwise is wanting to believe in a fantasy.

We saw all the nonsense that was posted. Oh gee, some DNC officials actually had a preference that wasn't your chosen candidate.

Too bad.

Response to stevenleser (Reply #167)

brush

(53,467 posts)
182. Get real. Bernie would have been villified even worst about his socialist past.
Tue Nov 29, 2016, 08:29 PM
Nov 2016

You think Putin and Assange wouldn't have hacked his campaign's emails also?

Of course they would have. Weaver and Devine's machinations to hack the DNC's firewall would have come out, as would their suggestion that Sander's take that futile trip to Rome.

And we know there would be others, like his wife and the tax returns.

 

Marr

(20,317 posts)
193. No, sorry.
Tue Nov 29, 2016, 08:44 PM
Nov 2016

You're claiming a thing would have happened. I'm correctly pointing out that it's speculation. You are making a claim. I am not.

brush

(53,467 posts)
277. Yeah, right. Socialism is very popular with those who voted for Trump
Wed Nov 30, 2016, 02:05 PM
Nov 2016

Last edited Wed Nov 30, 2016, 02:38 PM - Edit history (1)

They would have voted for Sanders instead of Trump .

Most of them don't know the difference between socialism, communism and national socialism, a fact the repugs would have exploited in their attacks against Sanders.

They would have made him out to be the evil anti-Christ socialist (add whatever other negative adjective to that string and you'd get pretty close to what the repugs would've put out against Bernie).

 

stevenleser

(32,886 posts)
266. Exactly, not only that, the very voters Sanders had some strength with would have been most impacted
Wed Nov 30, 2016, 11:57 AM
Nov 2016

Those white working class voters who people say would have voted Sanders but not Clinton? Guess what, in polling regarding Socialism, they have some of the lowest approval levels of Socialism.

It would have had a massive impact.

whopis01

(3,467 posts)
239. They are two very different kinds of elections.
Wed Nov 30, 2016, 09:02 AM
Nov 2016

This is obviously my opinion only, but the way I see it

The preference amongst most actual Democrats was:
1) Clinton
2) Whoever the Democratic nominee was


Where the preference of many liberal independents was:
1) Sanders
2) Third party / no vote / other

Had Sanders won the primary most Democrat voters would have stayed loyal to the nominee and the independent liberals would have been happy to vote Sanders over Stein/Trump/not voting. However that didn't happen and the liberal independents did not have the same loyalty to the nominee.

Does that make Sanders a better Democratic Party nominee? Not really - certainly depending on your viewpoint. But if he had been the nominee he would have had support from two bases instead of one.

 

stevenleser

(32,886 posts)
255. They are different, but with an outcome very different than the one you posit
Wed Nov 30, 2016, 11:13 AM
Nov 2016

Sanders had very little support and enthusiasm among African Americans and Latinos, two constituencies vital to Democrats for competing in states like Florida, Virginia, Georgia, the Carolinas, Pennsylvania and various others.

Due to that lack of enthusiasm, Sanders would have had no way of competing in those states. Those states are more than enough to hand Trump the election regardless of the rust belt states.

What makes matters worse is, when you can't contend for a state, it allows your opponent to reallocate resources, money, time, etc elsewhere. Trump was very strong in the rust belt states against Republican opposition so the idea that Sanders automatically takes them against Trump is a non-starter. Add the Socialism factor, which Trump would have played up to great effect, and the fact that the money and resources Trump had to allocate to the above states could have been reallocated to the rust belt and you have Trump taking those states vs Sanders and by a wide margin.

whopis01

(3,467 posts)
259. I disagree
Wed Nov 30, 2016, 11:48 AM
Nov 2016

I think that you underestimate loyalty to the nominee.

Beyond that, the African American and Latino enthusiasm for Clinton doesn't seem to have had that great of an impact, as she still lost to Trump.

The reality is that you can't win the general election with just support from the party, no matter how you cut it.

 

stevenleser

(32,886 posts)
263. You have no basis for that disagreement.
Wed Nov 30, 2016, 11:54 AM
Nov 2016

Clinton crushed Sanders in all the states I mentioned. Crushed. Wasn't close.

And she crushed Sanders for exactly the reason I mentioned.

Yes, African American and Latino enthusiasm had a great impact. She was in the running for those states. Trump had to go there, his surrogates had to go there, he had to spend a lot of money there.

whopis01

(3,467 posts)
269. I absolutely do have basis for it.
Wed Nov 30, 2016, 12:09 PM
Nov 2016

You claim it "had a great impact" in those states. Yet Clinton lost every single one of the states that you mentioned.

So "had a great impact" means "was not sufficient to win". Ok, fine, I'll go with that definition.

The African America and Latino enthusiasm for Clinton had a great impact. I couldn't agree more.


I believe that Clinton supporters would have offered far more support to Sanders than Sanders supporters offered to Clinton.

 

stevenleser

(32,886 posts)
303. Ignoring the facts I mentioned means you have no basis for your disagreement
Wed Nov 30, 2016, 05:52 PM
Nov 2016

The lack of support by African Americans and Latinos means no chance for Sanders in Pennsylvania, Virginia, North Carolina, Florida and various other states.

That is enough for Sanders to lose the election.

whopis01

(3,467 posts)
304. Clinton didn't have enough of their support to make any difference.
Wed Nov 30, 2016, 06:24 PM
Nov 2016

They are not what lost the election. It was the lack of support of independents. That is the important fact of the discussion.

But you are not one open to new ideas, I can see that.

Go ahead and have the last word - I am sure that's important to you.

Demsrule86

(68,347 posts)
244. Enjoy the consequences then...personally I voted for
Wed Nov 30, 2016, 09:40 AM
Nov 2016

Hillary and would have voted for any Democratic candidate...that is how the Repugs win they support Republicans...those who voted third party or gasp for Trump literally have blood on their hands.

joshcryer

(62,265 posts)
280. My swing state went for Clinton.
Wed Nov 30, 2016, 02:48 PM
Nov 2016

It was the white "working class" who gave us Trump. The very people who are going to be hurt the most, comparatively. The poor, they've always been fucked over, the impoverished, immigrants, LGBT, women, they are used to it. The "change" won't affect them very much. You can't go too much lower than now.

But white working class people are in for a very rude awakening.

 

lumberjack_jeff

(33,224 posts)
284. This is part of a long term trend; poor people are increasingly rural people.
Wed Nov 30, 2016, 03:00 PM
Nov 2016

If we want to be a party of and for the poor and working class, we're looking in the wrong neighborhoods.

http://scholars.unh.edu/cgi/viewcontent.cgi?article=1001&context=carsey

joshcryer

(62,265 posts)
290. This is inevitable.
Wed Nov 30, 2016, 03:40 PM
Nov 2016

The thing is that colored people, minorities, immigrants, women, they are already on the receiving end of the bullshit. That white people are now feeling their pain is inevitable.

For one simple reason: globalization and technological advancements. Cheap goods from abroad and cheap manufacturing locally. It's over. Automation is going to literally in the next decade destroy several million jobs with self-driving cars alone. It only goes "down" from there.

And a Republican is not equipped to deal with it.

We're at the precipice of the Marxist Historical Materialism roadmap. I've argued against this for over a decade (search my name and "historical materialism&quot . We didn't need to go here, but it appears that we have done so. It's going to be extremely painful.

The "rural poor" you're talking about are going to be affected, comparatively, more than any other group. You're going to have ghost towns. It's going to get real.

Basic income is going to be needed. And it is not happening under a Republican.

 

lumberjack_jeff

(33,224 posts)
298. I'm intrigued when people say "women or whites" or "gays or whites"
Wed Nov 30, 2016, 04:13 PM
Nov 2016

Last edited Wed Nov 30, 2016, 05:17 PM - Edit history (2)

It's wedge politics attempting to split the log with the blunt end of the wedge.

Practically speaking, Wouldn't identity politics be easier if you drop the pretense? Down with straight white rural white men! They have it too good! They get too many food stamps! Ignorant, uneducated, toothless, privileged oppressors! It's their own fault that their bootstraps didn't lift them into college!

Back to the topic: Even Marx didn't propose basic income; he proposed sharing the value derived from the means of production. Exactly what is needed and with the additional merit of being marginally feasible.

Why jump straight to Star Trek when what we really need is the basic infrastructure (i.e. broadband) that makes rural communities functionally competitive?

MADem

(135,425 posts)
109. Who's "we?" Did you, personally, "let her down?"
Tue Nov 29, 2016, 05:00 PM
Nov 2016

If you did, then let your conscience be your guide, I suppose.

I worked hard to get her voters to the polls, I donated to her campaign. I didn't let her down. I supported my candidate.

pnwmom

(108,925 posts)
143. We owe ourselves an apology for letting ourselves down -- at least,
Tue Nov 29, 2016, 06:30 PM
Nov 2016

anyone who failed to fight for the only candidate who could have stopped DT.

INdemo

(6,994 posts)
222. That is debatable
Wed Nov 30, 2016, 12:48 AM
Nov 2016

Only candidate that could have stopped DT?
How long does this go on and on....?

pnwmom

(108,925 posts)
232. Who do you think could have stopped him? The Libertarian? The Green Party?
Wed Nov 30, 2016, 04:34 AM
Nov 2016

Though Hillary had the support of millions more voters than Trump, that was still not enough to overcome the rigged electoral college. And the Libertarians and the Green Party candidates had zero chance of winning -- all they accomplished was keeping Hillary's vote total down and helping DT.

pnwmom

(108,925 posts)
285. No, writing him in in the General, as some people advocated, was a fool's errand
Wed Nov 30, 2016, 03:13 PM
Nov 2016

Anyone who didn't vote for Hillary in the general helped Trump along.

INdemo

(6,994 posts)
297. Have you ever given it any thought that Republicans have been organizing their game plan
Wed Nov 30, 2016, 04:11 PM
Nov 2016

against Hillary since 2008?
Obama had such a great campaign organization and Techs working for his campaign there was no way he would lose or
have either of his runs stolen.
The Clinton Advisors and Managers (as incompetent as they were) entered this campaign thinking "we have the funding we have the organization now lets just do this".
The Clinton campaign thought they could raise funding from the likes of Wall St,Goldman Sachs and every other Corporate mafia member that would write a check and pretend she was a true progressive.
She took the money turned the corner from Wall St.and declared "here I am folks Im your gal. Im the progressive liberal candidate that is going to kick some ass. Trouble is the Republicans,Reince Priebus,and the silent partner this time around Karl Rove were waiting.
The Corporate media gave Bernie Sanders no time,no discussion because they wanted Hillary to face off with their flawed candidate Donald Trump.
As Hillary came closer to clinching the nomination many liberals left because they kept saying over and over again "we don't want Hillary because we don't believe she can win" as DWS kept pretending this is going to be a cake walk.
Sure Hillary won the popular vote but if it was the popular vote that was the strategy to win don't you think the Republicans would have used a different strategy.

Do you know what hurt Hillary's campaign (more than we realize) and pissed off a lot of Democratic voters?
She started campaigning for the down ballot as if she had this in the bag when she should have kept going to PA Ohio,Mich and Wisc.
By switching her campaign tactics she hurt here momentum she had at the time and walla the rest is history.

So stop blaming the voters that stayed home or the ones that voted for a Third Party it was the incompetency of the Clinton Campaign.

I voted for Hillary Clinton in fact my whole family voted for Hillary but I will tell you what there was not the excitement there was when we voted for Obama in 2008 and just how many Democrats out there feel the same way?

So can we please move on...

pnwmom

(108,925 posts)
299. And they had a 2 foot thick folder of opposition research ready to go
Wed Nov 30, 2016, 04:17 PM
Nov 2016

on Bernie Sanders, too, which Kurt Eichenwald viewed.

Bernie would have been having to defend his proposed bill to locate all Vermont's nuclear waste in a poor, rural, largely hispanic part of Texas -- among many other parts of his decades long voting record.

The GOP was ready to go after anyone we nominated. Don't kid yourself.

As for Hillary deciding that she could help people down-ticket, people here were complaining that she wasn't doing that enough -- that she wouldn't get enough accomplished if she didn't help bring about a more Democratic Congress.

So, when she had a 9 point lead, she started campaigning down-ticket -- and with 11 days to go, Comey dropped his two letter bombs.

You have wonderful 20/20 hindsight, like everyone else. But no one could have predicted Comey's unprecedented interference in the final days of the election.

ismnotwasm

(41,916 posts)
12. Yeah I noticed that too
Tue Nov 29, 2016, 03:01 PM
Nov 2016

They got what they wanted--wasn't there a "she needs to stay home and spend time with her grandchildren" quote from some asshole or the another?

Well-- perhaps she's doing just that. She can do what the fuck she wants. I am sure I'm far less gracious than Hillary because I'd add a "fuck you" to those supposedly on my team who talked all that shit as I rode off to the next phase of my life.

Look at them now. Kicked over the anthill.

And we have to deal with Trump. And clean up the messes of the pure. Which we will.

BlueMTexpat

(15,348 posts)
74. I'm with you and the OP.
Tue Nov 29, 2016, 04:05 PM
Nov 2016

And I'll add my own personal f**k you to ANY self-styled "progressives" who helped to defeat the best candidate!

jimlup

(7,968 posts)
19. This is a meaningless diatribe
Tue Nov 29, 2016, 03:05 PM
Nov 2016

against no one. Progressives who I know lined up behind Hillary and fought hard for her as a front against Don the Con. The opinion expressed here is bullshit hard knocks.

Stop bashing progressives if you want to move forward.

 

LanternWaste

(37,748 posts)
38. I also like to pretend everything I fail to hear of is "totally made-up nonsense" as well.
Tue Nov 29, 2016, 03:21 PM
Nov 2016

I suppose if you yourself have heard no one saying that, then obviously no one at all is saying that. I also like to pretend everything I fail to hear of is "totally made-up nonsense" as well.

 

BobbyDrake

(2,542 posts)
25. Right after "progressives" stop bashing every other Democrat first.
Tue Nov 29, 2016, 03:10 PM
Nov 2016

How about you noble souls on the Pure Left of the spectrum lead us with your magnanimous example, huh?

 

Marr

(20,317 posts)
161. Hillary lost to someone who never should've had a chance.
Tue Nov 29, 2016, 07:19 PM
Nov 2016

Your chosen candidate was shoehorned into the nomination in the most rigged primary I've ever seen. In a year defined by insurgent candidacies, the DNC and their loyal fans chose to back the ultimate establishment politician. She lost, as the primary data predicted she would... and you can still summon the chutzpah to condemn Democrats for being angry?

Response to Marr (Reply #161)

BainsBane

(53,001 posts)
32. Trump supporters are not progressives
Tue Nov 29, 2016, 03:16 PM
Nov 2016

they are the enemy. That they call themselves progressives means nothing. They enabled a fascist to come to power. Fascism is as fascism does.

Anyone who voted for Hillary is not included in my comment, so don't take something as meant for you that isn't.

progressoid

(49,824 posts)
80. 99% of the people on this board voted for Hillary.
Tue Nov 29, 2016, 04:15 PM
Nov 2016

Including progressives.

Your post is a not-too-subtle, broad brush attack on all of them.

emulatorloo

(43,979 posts)
89. Thread's not about progressives who voted for HRC. IE it isn't about YOU.
Tue Nov 29, 2016, 04:24 PM
Nov 2016

It isn't about you, not about me. It is about Bernie or Busters and Hillary Haters, some of who are proud they voted Trump out of spite.


progressoid

(49,824 posts)
96. If that's the case, this is an even more meaningless OP.
Tue Nov 29, 2016, 04:33 PM
Nov 2016

Bernie or Busters were a blip in comparison to the problem of the tens of millions who support the orange turd.
THEY are the enemy.
THEY should be the focus of our anger and ire.

This country has turned into a Lyndon LaRouche wet dream and were bitching about a few loons on the left.

Priorities people. Priorities.

 

stevenleser

(32,886 posts)
136. Depends on how you define "people on this board". If you include those who also have JPR accounts
Tue Nov 29, 2016, 06:21 PM
Nov 2016

you would be wrong.

progressoid

(49,824 posts)
184. I've never really been there.
Tue Nov 29, 2016, 08:32 PM
Nov 2016

So I took a look. I recognized a couple that still post here. Most seem to have been banned here or left on their own.

They claim to have 1638 active users. Let's generously say half of them still post here as well. We have 239,116 registrations. Let's say only 20% here are active users. That would mean 1.7% post on both sites.

Of course, we always been told that DU doesn't represent the "real" world. And if that's true, then JPR would be even less representative.

 

LanternWaste

(37,748 posts)
41. A creative bumper sticker that is for all intents and purposes, itself meaningless.
Tue Nov 29, 2016, 03:24 PM
Nov 2016

"Stop bashing progressives if you want to move forward..."

A creative bumper sticker that is for all intents and purposes, itself meaningless, whose premise is predicated wholly on the Democrats you yourself know...

 

La Lioness Priyanka

(53,866 posts)
33. kerry remained senator, so he was still in public office.
Tue Nov 29, 2016, 03:17 PM
Nov 2016

much more akin to Gore and we didn't expect him to comment on every scandal of bush era.

BainsBane

(53,001 posts)
50. They want her removed from power
Tue Nov 29, 2016, 03:38 PM
Nov 2016

and influence over the party, which has been accomplished, yet they also expect her to dance on command. They don't seem to know what to do with themselves without her.

 

La Lioness Priyanka

(53,866 posts)
53. i have a lot of these stein voters on facebook and now that hillary is defeated
Tue Nov 29, 2016, 03:41 PM
Nov 2016

i wonder how their lives will go on. who will give their lives meaning and purpose? lol

 

BobbyDrake

(2,542 posts)
21. The toxic Left continues to fail to grasp that their addiction to attacking their own
Tue Nov 29, 2016, 03:06 PM
Nov 2016

potential allies worse than they do their actual enemies is what contributes the most to their permanent marginalization. Why would I work with people whose first instinct is to stab me in the back just to prove their ideological purity cred?

Turns out that being a self-righteous know-it-all (not my first word choice, if I'm being honest) isn't the best way to "win friends and influence people" that smug progressives tell themselves it is. Maybe the next time a progressive runs in my state, I'll demand that they "excite" me and cater to 100% of my issues or they won't get my vote? Yeah, I live in a blue state, I can afford to treat them to some of their own medicine from now on.

 

Txbluedog

(1,128 posts)
28. Hillary does not owe anyone anything
Tue Nov 29, 2016, 03:12 PM
Nov 2016

She is, like it or not, yesterday's news. What we as democrats are owed is simple--our CURRENT leadership to learn from this and develop a plan to effectively counter this. And please no platitudes about how we won the popular vote, it doesn't get us anywhere and we re-learned this the hard way again this year. The rules to elect a President are set in stone and both parties and candidates knew them going on.

We as democrats, need to get together and figure out how we can be an inclusive party for ALL Americans (even blue-collar Caucasians). There are no easy answers and a lot of hard work ahead.

 

86derps

(44 posts)
58. Bravo!
Tue Nov 29, 2016, 03:44 PM
Nov 2016

Thanks TXbluedog!. This is exactly correct.

We need a Unified Left party to organize and mobilize now to stand up and challenge the horrible Republican platform that is about to levied on the World. We need to fight for the next set of elections at the local, state and federal level. We need to get going now.

I'm a liberal who voted for Bernie and then voted for Hillary. I did not vote for Trump.

If Hillary doesn't want to continue fighting for liberal ideals then that is fine. I know Bernie will keep fighting. I know progressives and moderate democrats will keep fighting. Do we find common ground and fight together or do we fight each other?

Hekate

(90,189 posts)
224. "If Hillary doesn't want to continue fighting for liberal ideals then that is fine." WTF is that?!
Wed Nov 30, 2016, 12:58 AM
Nov 2016

She has worked her ASS off for other people her entire life. For 30 years the VRWC has thrown everyything at her and she has prevailed. She has just been through the most VILE campaign I have ever seen in my life.

Thanks to the American RW, the American Leftier than Thou Wing, the Russians, the American White Nationalists, and the American Media -- Hillary Clinton lost. She's gonna get 2.5 million more votes than Mad King Donald, but he's gonna get the Oval Office.

And you imply that what she's doing now is not bleeding to death, but simply blowing it off. And it's about you.

My my my my my.

 

stevenleser

(32,886 posts)
166. Sorry, you don't get to define the discussion. The fact that we got more votes is an important
Tue Nov 29, 2016, 07:37 PM
Nov 2016

fact. Dismissing important facts does not help you arrive at the best conclusions.

I don't think we need to change anything. It's hard to win an election after your party has held the white house for 8 years. Despite that our candidate got more votes than the other guy.

We don't need to change anything. The voting public needs to see what a Republican in office is like and that reminder will be enough to get us back the white house.

cstanleytech

(26,080 posts)
34. Anyone who thinks a politician owes them something because they voted for them is mistaken as the
Tue Nov 29, 2016, 03:18 PM
Nov 2016

only thing the politician owes is to do the job to the job of representing "all" of the people in their district which is a fact most Republicans have forgotten.

Response to BainsBane (Original post)

BainsBane

(53,001 posts)
47. Tsk
Tue Nov 29, 2016, 03:33 PM
Nov 2016

That's chicken feed compared to $14 million in advertising placement fees. Get with the program. The smart pols know how to get rich off losing.

Tumbulu

(6,267 posts)
55. So glad that you approve of T so much- what are you doing here then?
Tue Nov 29, 2016, 03:42 PM
Nov 2016

totally disgusting response.

I agree wholeheartedly with the OP.

jalan48

(13,797 posts)
64. Would you like the 300 dollar or the 500 dollar bottle of wine with your dinner?
Tue Nov 29, 2016, 03:50 PM
Nov 2016

Oh hell, let's just let the big bank pick up the cost on this one. Divine.

world wide wally

(21,718 posts)
85. I don't even know why you resent that.
Tue Nov 29, 2016, 04:21 PM
Nov 2016

look and see what we got before you complain about something that just doesn't really matter. Just out of curiosity, would you take $275.000 to give a speech?
I thought so.

 

leftynyc

(26,060 posts)
51. I truly hope the
Tue Nov 29, 2016, 03:39 PM
Nov 2016

imbeciles that insisted there was no difference between the parties are hanging their heads in shame. If what he's already done isn't enough, fucking Dan Quayle just walked into Trump Tower.

LenaBaby61

(6,965 posts)
54. Dan Quayle ...
Tue Nov 29, 2016, 03:42 PM
Nov 2016

The man who couldn't even spell the word potato. Good God, this will be the dumbest and most corrupt administration EVER.

BainsBane

(53,001 posts)
56. Some of them are working hard to defend Trump
Tue Nov 29, 2016, 03:43 PM
Nov 2016

Jackpineradicals are complaining about how the media is being so unfair to him.

 

leftynyc

(26,060 posts)
60. Worse than imbeciles
Tue Nov 29, 2016, 03:45 PM
Nov 2016

They should know better but because their candidate didn't get the nomination, they're going to have a hissy fit and behave like spoiled children. I'm glad they're off DU. Let them stew in that sewer.

Yo_Mama_Been_Loggin

(107,063 posts)
225. Sadly they aren't
Wed Nov 30, 2016, 12:59 AM
Nov 2016

Those on the DU exiles site are bragging how they sure showed us. Never mind that millions will lose their healthcare and much more.

 

leftynyc

(26,060 posts)
236. I'm glad they're gone
Wed Nov 30, 2016, 06:55 AM
Nov 2016

If they still think Bernie could have beaten him, they're just fucking delusional. Perhaps I should have posted part of the opposition research I found about their hero but that's not me. I didn't post anything negative about either candidate. All I said was he couldn't beat don the con - and that research was all I needed to know that. They're bragging about fucking up the country because their candidate didn't get chosen - they're useless imbeciles who will, no doubt, get fucked over because of their stupidity.

BainsBane

(53,001 posts)
62. Someone posted an OP
Tue Nov 29, 2016, 03:47 PM
Nov 2016

excoriating Clinton for not speaking out about Standing Rock. That is what prompted my post. I thought it incredibly nasty, given that Hillary has been defeated and is no longer a force in the party. That would be a legitimate question for anyone in public office, but the poster didn't direct it to lawmakers. They directed it toward Hillary, presumably out of habit of channeling their anger at her.

 

Fast Walker 52

(7,723 posts)
67. I tend to agree with your post overall, but on the other hand, I would like to see her speak out
Tue Nov 29, 2016, 03:55 PM
Nov 2016

more on what is going on, since Obama isn't. Obviously she doesn't have to, but she was our future leader speaking about how important this election was, and now it's weird to have her disappear.

BainsBane

(53,001 posts)
104. That is what losing candidates do
Tue Nov 29, 2016, 04:54 PM
Nov 2016

It's what Gore did, Dukakis, and others. Gore never spoke out on current events, but he did devote himself to climate change. I expect Clinton will similarly devote herself to certain issues.

I don't think it's appropriate for a losing candidate to be making statements to the media as they did during a campaign. Then they do so because there is a possibility they might be president. No such possibility exists for Clinton.

Obama has made some statements about Standing Rock and he's taken some action, but not in the past few days.

AtheistCrusader

(33,982 posts)
78. I would ASSUME
Tue Nov 29, 2016, 04:12 PM
Nov 2016

that with campaign support for the recounts, the election is still 'in play', not that there's any reason to campaign per se, being all over bar the shouting.

But I can understand if some people feel Hillary is still 'in the running' and ought to act like a candidate still running.

Once all the recounts are over though... It's all on the oompa loompa in the white house.. Holy shit.

 

Txbluedog

(1,128 posts)
88. I don't think Hillary is under any illusions that the recount
Tue Nov 29, 2016, 04:23 PM
Nov 2016

will make her President. Otherwise, she would have been extremely vocal about it.

What are forgetting that she is someone who has wanted to be President for a long time now and everyone was telling her that she had this in the bag, I cannot begin to imagine the devastation one must feel when their lifelong dream which they through was so within grasp slips away from them

LiberalLovinLug

(14,153 posts)
99. So one poster said this and you went into a tirade
Tue Nov 29, 2016, 04:44 PM
Nov 2016

against some "progressives" in here? Why not just post a reaction in that thread then, or at least be honest and state in your OP what it is about and is directed towards ONE member about ONE statement. Even if one or two agreed, your rant comes off as a Don Quixote attack.

I wouldn't agree with her speaking out about it now either (although she definitely should have earlier) but still that suggestion doesn't seem to warrant the vitriolic backlash. I think there is more going on with that.

You quote:
"There are a lot of people across the political spectrum who must be feeling an aching emptiness after having devoted so much of their lives to destroying her."

Do you really think there is a significant crowd in here that feels like that? And in spite of the fact that we were 80% in Bernies camp. It feels like you are shouting to JPR, so why not go there to give them an earful. All you do by posting this tripe in here is come off sounding hollow. You don't have any audience but those who desperately want to vent their anger somewhere along with you.

Another quote:
"They don't seem to know what to do with themselves without her."

I think you are projecting with that little Freudian slip. We get it. Even us that preferred Bernie.

My gawd...how do think we felt when we finally knew after California that what we thought was a once-in-a-lifetime candidate would never be able to win, knowing that he had the momentum once people actually got to hear him, but how the cards were always stacked against him with the SD pre-casting their votes before he even started, and the MSM refused to cover his rallies...add to that suspicions (later proved true) that the DNC was stepping on the scales for Hillary?...

Yet the vast majority of us, followed Bernie's lead and swallowed that bitter pill, set aside our differences after a major kick in the gut, and supported Hillary. And in here? OMG the hubris and celebrations once the more vocal Bernie supporters were censored and whisked out. If you even dared, as I did, to caution that Trump could very well win, you were laughed off as a 'concern troll'.

And now you want to kick us around some more? Your OP sounds to me like it is directed towards those that voted for Trump, or didn't vote for Hillary, which I'd suggest would be a tiny tiny percent in here if any. You blow up one DUer that suggested Hillary should speak out on the pipeline protest...into some sort of army of Trump supporters in here picking on the poor poor DUers that were with Clinton the whole way.


We get it...it hurts. We had to swallow our own bitter pill with Bernie and all he stood for being defeated...and we pulled up our bootstraps and worked with Hillary supporters in fighting Trump and his dangerous brand. And then we got kicked in the gut a second time with Trump winning regardless.

Its time for some of the Clinton supporters to grow up and start acting like adults again and take your medicine, stop blindly lashing out at your allies, and start to try and work with ALL Democrats and even left leaning independents, to elect downticket Dems for the mid terms.


BainsBane

(53,001 posts)
113. You aren't the only one who lost a once in a lifetime opportunity
Tue Nov 29, 2016, 05:03 PM
Nov 2016

Many of us lost a once in a 240 year opportunity by Clinton's being defeated, and I don't expect us to have another opportunity for a long time to come. The voters, however, have the final say, and they ultimately rejected Clinton, as they did Sanders in the primary.

The people I'm talking about are not my allies. They are my enemies. They stood with the Klan and the neo-nazis. Because they use the name progressive when they in fact are regressive doesn't mean they are allies. They worked to bring fascism to this country. That makes them my enemy. I'm fucking sick to death of people assuming the word progressive means ally when it means nothing. Most of those people are every bit as reactionary, racist, and misogynist as the worst of the Trump voters.

Why you've decided this is about you is a problem for you to resolve. It's not my doing.

We still have Sanders supporters whining about a primary that ended months ago, and you say I have to grow up and not express my views because you somehow have decided to feel attacked because you saw the word progressive. That really is your problem.


LiberalLovinLug

(14,153 posts)
121. But you are posting it in here!
Tue Nov 29, 2016, 05:33 PM
Nov 2016

How are we, who call ourselves "progressives", and proudly, to think of your OP?

The word progressive is a big tent. I am arguing in another thread with another ex Hillary supporter who is vehemently arguing how Obama is/was such a progressive President. And in here you seem to be pissing on all that is, or who calls themselves progressive, even on DU. There seems to be a real lack of clarity about what is a progressive.

I guess it needs to be said for you so I will....There is no true progressive that is in favour of Trump running the country. He is the opposite of everything we stand for. Were there a tiny minority that were self described "progressives" that were more radical and deluded into thinking Trump winning would usher in some kind of needed flushing of the Democratic party and force them to be more left of center again and less tied to corporate class? Yes.

But again, you come off as if that particular breed are more than a tiny minority, if any, on DU. I'd even venture to say most all-in Hillary supporters also would not be offended to be regarded as "progressive" members of DU. So why make "progressives" on DU your enemy? Maybe its just the word. Obviously you interpret it differently than I do. No true progressive I know of "worked to bring fascism to this country".

Our collective anger should be towards those that actually voted for Trump, and Trump and his new administration. Egad its difficult to even say that.

aikoaiko

(34,127 posts)
173. I see. That helps me better understand your OP.
Tue Nov 29, 2016, 07:58 PM
Nov 2016

There is no need nor good motive for being nasty or belligerent toward HRC.

I imagine that HRC will find a way to continue to be a force for good in the US and the world in time. But you're right that she has earned the right to do nothing at all, too.

BainsBane

(53,001 posts)
176. That was really my point
Tue Nov 29, 2016, 08:07 PM
Nov 2016

Not an attack on progressives in general or people who voted for Sanders in the primary, which many have taken it as. I was just pissed off by what I saw as nastiness and what seems to be ingrained muscle memory of Hillary hating.

 

HassleCat

(6,409 posts)
76. Straw man here
Tue Nov 29, 2016, 04:11 PM
Nov 2016

There were a number of progressives who were not happy with Clinton as our candidate. A small fraction of these people refused to vote for her. A smaller subset advocated not voting, or voting for someone else. An even smaller group actively worked against her. So I'm guessing there are about twenty people in the country who fit into this category of knife twisters you seem to have "discovered." I don't think it's a big concern.

hueymahl

(2,414 posts)
87. This
Tue Nov 29, 2016, 04:22 PM
Nov 2016

It is a hell of a lot easier to blame someone else for your shortcomings than to do any real reflection.

Some of the hardcore people on this board will never admit the DNC and our candidate simply ran a flawed campaign. And if we as a group fail to identify those flaws, we are destined to repeat history.

ancianita

(35,812 posts)
90. I'm a progressive who worked to see her win. I just want her to win. I know she's best for
Tue Nov 29, 2016, 04:26 PM
Nov 2016

this country despite its being saturated by her media demonization over decades. I now wish her the best of a life that's her own. Agreed. She owes us nothing.

I'm trusting that she's moved half the population's franchisement and full equality forward, whether most voters acknowledge that or not.

Gore1FL

(21,027 posts)
115. We are apparently still in the "Anger" phase
Tue Nov 29, 2016, 05:10 PM
Nov 2016

I hope the "Depression" and "Acceptance/Hope" phases are less like this.

BainsBane

(53,001 posts)
139. I never said that
Tue Nov 29, 2016, 06:25 PM
Nov 2016

I don't recall anyone saying it. Regardless, I'm only responsible for my own words and actions. I won't apologize for exercising my right to vote for the Democrat only competent candidate in the race.

Should I have guessed that the level of misogyny and whitelash was so great that only white men could occupy the presidency after Obama? Maybe. But I won't now or ever let bigots keep me from voting for whomever I believe will be the best public servant.

 

Spitfire of ATJ

(32,723 posts)
154. I heard it as the PRIME reason to select her at my caucus....
Tue Nov 29, 2016, 07:02 PM
Nov 2016

The Bernie supporters were seen as supporting an automatic loser too.

BainsBane

(53,001 posts)
158. I also heard that we should support Bernie because he polled better
Tue Nov 29, 2016, 07:17 PM
Nov 2016

and that argument was posited as a justification for overturning the votes of the majority of primary voters in order to install him as the nominee despite his huge vote deficit. (Did I hear that from you even this week? Not sure, but I have heard it from others in the past couple of days).

As I said, I'm not responsible for what you hear. I make my own points, and I never made that argument. In fact, I explicitly said I didn't think supposed electability a reason to vote for someone because that tends to sort itself out by who wins the majority of votes in the primary.

I've always voted based on who I think was the best candidate in terms of ideas and qualifications. The older I've gotten, the more carefully I research candidates and focus more on their record than rhetoric. In many previous years, the candidates I favored ended up not being the nominee. Those are the breaks. I certainly never complained about it ad nauseum after the GE. Kerry was my very last choice in 2004. I still worked damn hard for him and organized voter turn out in four precincts. When he lost I didn't go online and tell everyone they should have voted for Howard Dean like I wanted. I just moved on. Unfortunately, some aren't taking that approach this year.

 

Spitfire of ATJ

(32,723 posts)
164. He polled better among independents which weren't allowed to vote in many primaries....
Tue Nov 29, 2016, 07:25 PM
Nov 2016

Trump saw many of Bernie's ideas were popular and stole them on the campaign trail.

He has no intention of fulfilling them.

This is the guy who outsources the shirt on his back.

Hekate

(90,189 posts)
95. Plus a million or so. At least she and Bill and Chelsea can keep the Foundaion going....
Tue Nov 29, 2016, 04:32 PM
Nov 2016

You know, the one everybody wanted Bill to kill off to avoid the "appearance of impropriety."

Now they get to live with Mad King Donald's international business empire being run from the Oval Office because, you know, he's not a Clinton.

mcar

(42,206 posts)
97. I hope she spends a month on some lovely island
Tue Nov 29, 2016, 04:36 PM
Nov 2016

Sipping mai tais and getting massages. She earned it. She will always have my gratitude.

Red Oak

(697 posts)
106. I understand the anger of the OP and many that replied, but
Tue Nov 29, 2016, 04:57 PM
Nov 2016

let me ask you something.

How are you planning on winning the next election?

You hate those that voted for Trump
You hate those that voted for a third party
You hate those that didn't vote
You hate those that primaried Hillary Clinton and criticized her in what you consider an unfair way

Soon we will all need to get over the 2016 election and focus on 2018 and 2020.

If we have a platform that starts to rebuild American industry and infrastructure while being fully inclusive in the process, 2018 and 2020 may be much better for us than 2016 was. The inclusion must not only be race, gender and religion, it will have to include some of the people on the list above or we will not win.

JHan

(10,173 posts)
108. The attacks against her cut deep...
Tue Nov 29, 2016, 04:59 PM
Nov 2016

and I'll "play the woman card" and say it cut deep as a woman to see it unfold. Whenever I think back on this year I just feel rage.

wundermaus

(1,673 posts)
119. What an incredibly distorted, twisted, and polarizing assessment of reality.
Tue Nov 29, 2016, 05:25 PM
Nov 2016

Being wrong on so many levels, leaves me with not knowing where to begin. We progressives are not the enemy. We are your base. You thought dynasty and corporate sponsorship was your base. Time to catch up.

Hillary and the DNC owe us (and the world) an apology. Sadly, that won't fix what is broken now. We are all fucked and no amount of shoulda coulda woulda will undo the damage. So enjoy that ride off the cliff. WE are all going to have a hell of a view.

BainsBane

(53,001 posts)
122. If you don't vote Democrat, you aren't the base
Tue Nov 29, 2016, 05:38 PM
Nov 2016

The base of the Democratic Party is comprised of people of color and single women. That is the fact. People who refuse to vote for Democrats are not only not the base, they aren't even Democrats. If you did vote for Hillary, then it isn't addressed to you and there is no reason to be defensive. If you didn't vote for her, that makes you a collaborator with the fascist regime and my enemy. That means I will never, ever forgive you for sacrificing human lives for your own colossal sense of entitlement.

As for the DNC, read this article by Eichenwald. http://www.newsweek.com/myths-cost-democrats-presidential-election-521044
If nothing else, you should at least learn what the organizing body of the party whose base you claim to represent actually does.

The DNC isn't responsible for the fact that Bernie lost by 3.75 million votes. That is his doing. That you assume someone who couldn't even win a majority of Democrats would win the general election is without any basis in evidence. Somehow he had to convince Democrats to vote for him, and he couldn't. Now he obviously had great success instilling certain buzz words in the lexicon, which you use with ahistorical zeal.

Ensuring a former first lady doesn't become president isn't a stand against "dynasty." The same people who claim to resent the Clinton "dynasty" idolize the Roosevelts and Kennedys. Instead, it is ensuring that women remain in their place, that the power be kept for men only. That is the same impulse as the use of the term corporatist against Clinton (and Obama) while ignoring the fact that the Democratic party has since its inception been allied with moneyed interests, whether slaveholders, industrialists, or financial capital. Yet only when a black man is president and a woman poised to succeed him does it become a problem. Enter Donald Trump. Problem solved. America is great again. And the "progressives" --actually racist, misogynist shit stains--who voted for anyone but Clinton played a major role in making that happen. That isn't to say that Clinton and the Dem party don't have responsibility for their loss. Of course they do, but that responsibility doesn't include failing to compel the actual base of the party--women and people of color--to vote for Sanders as you insisted was their obligation.



Red Oak

(697 posts)
149. If the Democratic base is only "people of color and single women"..
Tue Nov 29, 2016, 06:39 PM
Nov 2016

...it is no wonder that we lost the election.

If this is true, we will likely not win another one in the near future.

Amazing that President Obama won two elections in a row with just these supporters as his base.

Or maybe the Democratic base is broader than the racist, misandrous perspective you have.

David__77

(23,214 posts)
123. Who wants her to speak out?
Tue Nov 29, 2016, 05:45 PM
Nov 2016

Is there an article or series of posts in which individuals urge her to make certain statements? I certainly don't think she owes it to anyone to say anything at all. Based on the post above, I think you're referring to individuals who voted for Trump or for a third party candidate. I don't imagine that there are too many of those around here.

I think there's nothing wrong with the label "progressive" or "leftist." I think that plenty of people preferred Sanders over Clinton and voted for Clinton over Trump.

Response to BainsBane (Original post)

BainsBane

(53,001 posts)
131. Well, thank goodness you got what you wanted
Tue Nov 29, 2016, 06:20 PM
Nov 2016

You can count this election as a resounding success. Congratulations.

And of course that you don't want something doesn't mean that anyone else might.

FBaggins

(26,693 posts)
129. Being unable to read minds... you'll have to show me why that's so.
Tue Nov 29, 2016, 06:18 PM
Nov 2016

The only thing she "owes" Democrats (however you label them) is an apology.

She has a great deal to apologize for, but she seemed sincere a couple weeks ago when she tried. There's little reason in beating a dead horse to try to get her to improve on it. The only way she could be said to "owe" more is if she wants to make a claim to some future party position or additional run for high office. Frankly... I don't see that happening.

That, however, is entirely distinct from the fact that the party owes us all quite a bit.

FBaggins

(26,693 posts)
144. Feel free to dodge the question in my post
Tue Nov 29, 2016, 06:35 PM
Nov 2016

Don't expect me to play games though.

You have yet to demonstrate what "progressives" think Clinton owes them. "Attacking" her for poor strategy (undeniable) doesn't mean she "owes" something. Pointing out where and how she screwed up is exactly what losing parties are supposed to do when they lose. That isn't "twisting the knife"... it's an essential part of preparing for the next election.

The only people I've seen calling on her to do something at this point are the people who are still stuck in denial that she lost. They want her to suspend the electoral college... or sue to recount all 50 states... etc. Those aren't the people who preferred Warren or Sanders.

The people who wished that we had selected a better candidate aren't expecting her to do anything at this point other than fade into history.

BainsBane

(53,001 posts)
151. I responded to that in another post in this thread
Tue Nov 29, 2016, 06:48 PM
Nov 2016

Last edited Tue Nov 29, 2016, 08:16 PM - Edit history (1)

Someone demanded--today--that she speak out about Standing Rock. This was a return visitor from ratfuck underground, which openly rooted for Trump and continues to defend him.

Candidates aren't "selected." They are elected. They have to earn the votes. Bernie didn't. Hillary won the nomination by 3.75 million votes.

She doesn't owe you an apology, though she gave one. She fought hard, damn hard. She was by far the best candidate. But voters in the key states didn't chose her. She failed to do what no Democrat since Harry Truman has done: succeed a sitting president of his own party. I don't know if a different candidate would have changed that, but the fact is the person had to be able to earn enough votes to win a primary. And Clinton was the only one who did that.

I don't know what you think the party owes you, but I remember a lot of talk during the primary about certain people believing the DNC should do the work their candidate couldn't bother to, like registering votes, something that is always done by candidates and state parties. Yet apparently when there is a candidate who is superior to the rest of the human race backed by others convinced of their own superiority, the rest of the party is supposed to do the labor they think beneath them. ($200 million dollars but he couldn't bother to spend adequate funds on field staff and organization. Instead, his budget when overwhelmingly to corporate media buys. ) I saw the whole thing as a a stunning demonstration of entitlement, an entitlement undiminished by loss. The idea that the rest of us owed their candidate our votes only reinforces it.

FBaggins

(26,693 posts)
212. So what you're saying is...
Tue Nov 29, 2016, 10:32 PM
Nov 2016

... that you gave context to your OP 60+ posts later and it's on me to have read the whole thread before commenting?

For the record... the context doesn't demonstrate that someone thinks that she "owes" progressives something. Some here are calling for the President to speak out on the recount efforts... but that doesn't imply that they think that he "owes" them.

Candidates aren't "selected." They are elected. They have to earn the votes. Bernie didn't. Hillary won the nomination by 3.75 million votes.

That isn't really true for the primaries. Parties decide how they will chose their nominee and are not legally bound to a particular procedure. If Clinton had changed her mind a couple months ago, there would be no connection between votes received and who the party had as a nominee. They wouldn't be obligated to pick the person with the next-highest number of votes.

Additionally... we obviously can't knock the Electoral College as being undemocratic with one side of our mouths while simultaneously hinting that a system heavy with "super delegates" is appropriate and a democratic "election".

She doesn't owe you an apology, though she gave one. She fought hard, damn hard. She was by far the best candidate. But voters in the key states didn't chose her


Sorry... you don't get to claim that your preferred candidate was the best possible option and made no mistakes that the party must learn from... but just happened to lose (particularly when losing to a candidate as horrendous as Trump). The knee-jerk inclination to leap to her defense is understandable after months of all of us doing it... but is inappropriate when trying to evaluate how the election was lost and what to do differently next time. There is no way to shield her from that.

I don't know what you think the party owes you

I think you probably do... but ok. The party owes all of us a process that gives us an opportunity to pick the best candidate possible. They should not (must not) act as an arm of one campaign looong before the candidate is chosen. They should not be clearing the field for a chosen successor before the first primary vote is cast. Where were Biden and Warren? Decisions that the party made sometimes years in advance had an impact on the choices that we had in the voting booths... and many of them were made by Clinton supporters specifically to grease the skids for her.

Squinch

(50,773 posts)
152. Oooooh. So much greatness in this!
Tue Nov 29, 2016, 06:52 PM
Nov 2016

"alt-progressives" YES!

Hatred and vitriol directed at her by the alt progressives since the GOP first told them what to thing. YES!

Rococo Hitler. YES!

The problem with the scapegoat. YES!

Warpy

(110,900 posts)
153. Why bash progressives
Tue Nov 29, 2016, 06:52 PM
Nov 2016

for the Monday morning quarterbacking I've seen from every single variety of Democrat? Why blame progressives for losing the election when Clinton won the popular vote? She couldn't have done that if every progressive had stayed home.

Save your venom for Trumpers. No Democrat deserves it.

BainsBane

(53,001 posts)
174. It's astounding the attachment to that word
Tue Nov 29, 2016, 08:00 PM
Nov 2016

I bash Trump voters and enablers, regardless of what they call themselves. They are the scum of the earth.
I don't know if you actually read my post, but it should be obvious that I'm not talking about Democrats since it references those who rooted on Trump's victory. Obviously they aren't not progressives, though they lie to others and themselves by claiming they are. No progressive would vote for Trump or want him to win over Clinton. Progressive by definition means moving forward. People who want to turn the clock back are regressive and reactionary.

And really, why should I care what a person who stands with the Klan and Neonazis calls themselves? What matters is what people do, and they enabled and continue to defend the fascist Donald Trump.

Nevernose

(13,081 posts)
210. Two quibbles:
Tue Nov 29, 2016, 10:07 PM
Nov 2016

One, although your point was perfectly made in follow up posts, apparently I and a lot of others misunderstood your original post.

Two, I think a lot of progressives are touchy about that word. The Republicans spent decades demonizing the word "liberal;" the old word progressive is just a rebranding of liberal. So when I, and many others, hear "progressives think X bad thing," we instinctively hear hippie bashing.

I don't think that was your point at all, but that's the point a lot of folks take away.

 

Nancyswidower

(182 posts)
159. I may have missed the Sec./Sen. Clinton posts suggesting that she owes us anything.
Tue Nov 29, 2016, 07:19 PM
Nov 2016

That's a 2 way street though.

betsuni

(25,122 posts)
172. I'm playing JPR bingo in this thread and I just need "neoliberal" to get bingo.
Tue Nov 29, 2016, 07:57 PM
Nov 2016

There's:
Corporate Dems,
DNC rigged the primary
Third way
Establishment
Accusations of lying, racism, and misandry (MISANDRY!!!)
Insisting that if one doesn't see something it doesn't exist
Playing the victim of censorship, being blocked from voting, and broad brush attacks
Hillary "fans"
MSM ignored Bernie
Hillary was a flawed candidate
Everybody said "she can't lose"

Like old times!

R B Garr

(16,919 posts)
276. And billionaires! Something something billionaires something something
Wed Nov 30, 2016, 01:35 PM
Nov 2016

Except the billionaires they like. They are fine. Ugh, can't take the phoniness anymore.

ProfessorGAC

(64,413 posts)
178. Convenient Recognizing Baine!
Tue Nov 29, 2016, 08:12 PM
Nov 2016

Pretty smart myself! I've seen no such thing
But whatever gets you to sleep at night no matter how disconnected to fact and how many paragraphs make you happy!
Verbosity and pomposity aren't correlated to fact
And I'm one accused of not being progressive enough
But your premise is just silly

BainsBane

(53,001 posts)
200. I find it fascinating when some assume
Tue Nov 29, 2016, 09:04 PM
Nov 2016

That if they haven't seen something it can't be true, as though nothing exists apart from them.

guillaumeb

(42,641 posts)
201. I have been following JPR for a few months. I am now posting there under my DU name.
Tue Nov 29, 2016, 09:13 PM
Nov 2016

I posted an article by Noam Chomsky on the huge mistake that some progressives made by not supporting Clinton. For this, I have been accused of being a Hillbot, and being an apologist for all of her supposed high crimes and misdemeanors. Ironic because I was banned temporarily from the Clinton group here because of my preference for Sanders. Such is life.

But in my responses at JPR, as well as defending Chomsky, I made the point that no matter who I supported in the primaries, in the general election there were only two viable candidates. And I voted for the best of the two candidates. Unfortunately, Trump won.

Some of the JPR respondents showed little real concern for the great harm that a Trump Presidency might bring. (I say might because I am always an optimist.) And that lack of apparent concern is troubling. It is almost as though political purity weighs more than the harm that Trump might do.

Nice post BB.

BainsBane

(53,001 posts)
204. Some voted for Trump directly
Tue Nov 29, 2016, 09:38 PM
Nov 2016

In states that were close because they wanted to stop her. They succeeded. I'm surprised you post there. I've seen some of the most forceful critics of Clinton called Hillbots there for speaking of the dangers of Trump.

I hope they are pleased with the fourth billionaire appointment to his cabinet.

I don't think it's political purity. I think it's an intense hatred for Clinton and those who voted for her, the latter being every bit as important as the former.

guillaumeb

(42,641 posts)
205. Agreed. Some respondents admitted that they voted for Trump, or Stein.
Tue Nov 29, 2016, 09:47 PM
Nov 2016

I decided to post there because I feel that progressives must unite to resist what will happen. As a 42 year union member, I an aware that unions do not get much support from Democrats, but we still get more than we would from the GOP.

And yes, the 30 year demonization of the Clinton family has borne fruit in both parties.

guillaumeb

(42,641 posts)
208. But if we do not talk among ourselves, what will happen?
Tue Nov 29, 2016, 09:54 PM
Nov 2016

Even at Discussionist there were a few progressives but they were outnumbered by the conservatives.

So do Democrats/lefties/progressives split into factions, or do we understand what we have in common and try to work from that point?

BainsBane

(53,001 posts)
209. You're right, of course
Tue Nov 29, 2016, 10:06 PM
Nov 2016

I'm not as diplomatic as you, but in general I'm better off with admitted conservatives than the jackpiners.

AgadorSparticus

(7,963 posts)
213. Well said!!!!
Tue Nov 29, 2016, 10:33 PM
Nov 2016
When she is gone, the people so invested in demonizing her are left without an outlet for the inner rage, and they find themselves flailing to cover up that emptiness. <----BAM!!! Couldn't have said that any better.

wildeyed

(11,240 posts)
215. No outlet for their rage
Tue Nov 29, 2016, 10:52 PM
Nov 2016

and Jefferson Beauregard Sessions, Trumps pick for AG, is a mighty drug warrior with great hatred of pot. He is also a blatant racist, but they seem less concerned about that kind of thing....

Thinkingabout

(30,058 posts)
228. Thanks Bain, Hillary has spend a lot of time trying to help those who are not as fortunate as others
Wed Nov 30, 2016, 01:32 AM
Nov 2016

getting young children into schools, health care and many other items, has tried to raise minimum wages, has worked hard for women's rights all over the world, and she did these task with honor. I doubt she will become a twitter commenting on everything which happens or does not happen. Perhaps the ones thinking Hillary should speak out on this should ask others in positions of congress, etc to do the speaking.

Cha

(295,899 posts)
233. She for damn sure owes them nothing but here's the thing with Hillary..
Wed Nov 30, 2016, 05:26 AM
Nov 2016
Hillary Clinton Is More Than a President

She is an idea, a world-historical heroine, light itself.

snip//

Hillary Clinton did everything right in this campaign, and she won more votes than her opponent did. She won. She cannot be faulted, criticized, or analyzed for even one more second. Instead, she will be decorated as an epochal heroine far too extraordinary to be contained by the mere White House. Let that revolting president-elect be Millard Fillmore or Herbert Hoover or whatever. Hillary is Athena.

More~http://www.elle.com/culture/career-politics/a40811/hillary-clinton-is-more-than-a-president/

OKNancy~http://www.democraticunderground.com/1107178831#top

Mahalo, BainsBane



[font size=lg][font color=blue]I Love Hillary[/font]

ihaveaquestion

(2,418 posts)
234. Don't you want Progressives votes?
Wed Nov 30, 2016, 06:13 AM
Nov 2016

If so, you certainly have a weird way of attracting them.

Using "Progressive" as a pejorative seems a sure way to drive even more people away from voting for Democrats.

 

bec

(107 posts)
238. I was/am a Bernie support/ progressive
Wed Nov 30, 2016, 08:47 AM
Nov 2016

that voted for Hillary, but you have to admit she was a very flawed candidate. Sorry dems, you have to embrace the fact that the generation coming up are extremely progressive and if you don't get your head out of the sand and realize that the democratic party is filled with corporate money and not at all the progressive party it needs to be in order to survive, it will be a diminished party in 10 years. Blindly following a party to destruction is not a very smart way to go. But carry on blaming those nasty progressives.

leftofcool

(19,460 posts)
253. Hope you and all those Progressives have a nice life under Trump
Wed Nov 30, 2016, 10:39 AM
Nov 2016

All those so called progressives have already caved to Trump and the GOP.

Politicub

(12,163 posts)
257. It's heartbreaking for me to say this
Wed Nov 30, 2016, 11:24 AM
Nov 2016

But Hillary can't save us now. She fought hard but faced an uphill battle against the dominant media narrative.

It's always easy to criticize in hindsite. It's quite another to look forward to face what brutal horrors that are to come.

I have been averting my gaze from current events and the media. How immature of me to think if I don't look at something, it doesn't exist.

Scapegoating Hillary is a kind of indulgent willful ignorance.

As they say, it's easier to hurt the ones we love than to face a discomforting reality about one's self.


Ligyron

(7,592 posts)
272. Yeah, me too.
Wed Nov 30, 2016, 12:39 PM
Nov 2016

"I have been averting my gaze from current events and the media. How immature of me to think if I don't look at something, it doesn't exist."

Plus, it doesn't matter what we think, we really can't do much about it at this particular point. Getting upset and depressed doesn't help a person any or effect anything that needs to happen to make it better.

Bad part is: it keeps getting worse with these cabinet appointments. I was half hoping, even thinking Trump was just playing the stalking horse for the Dems. Not anymore.

There will be time for action soon enough.

 

FairWinds

(1,717 posts)
260. Without a progressive wing, the Dem party is . .
Wed Nov 30, 2016, 11:51 AM
Nov 2016

nothing more than GOP lite, and as a wise ol' wag observed,
if you give the American people a choice between faux-republicans
and the real thing . .

They'll take the real thing every time.

I cannot even imagine how badly HRC would have lost had
she not been pushed to the left by Bernie.

whopis01

(3,467 posts)
262. I've seen the same thing - especially from the strong Clinton supporters
Wed Nov 30, 2016, 11:54 AM
Nov 2016

It seems to be a feeling of "we did so much work for her, she needs to keep fighting for us" among so many.

I agree with you - she was defeated, her job is done, she is a private citizen and that's that.

Jersey Devil

(9,862 posts)
267. She tried really hard but lost. Owes?
Wed Nov 30, 2016, 12:02 PM
Nov 2016

I don't know what else anyone could ask of her. She was out on the campaign trail constantly, even with pneumonia, raised a ton of money, totally trashed Trump in the debates and got better and better as a speaker as the campaign went on.

I thank her very much for her efforts. She owes me nothing.

tiredtoo

(2,949 posts)
268. As a strong supporter of Bernie
Wed Nov 30, 2016, 12:05 PM
Nov 2016

A strong supporter who put forth as much energy promoting Hillary once the primaries were over. Let me say... Hillary owes me nothing.
The DNC on the other hand, owes us all plenty. They can start making amends by getting rid of the super delegates.

 

hollowdweller

(4,229 posts)
270. I think she's doing a great job post election.
Wed Nov 30, 2016, 12:09 PM
Nov 2016

She's out there running into people doing normal things and having pleasant encounters with folks.

If she had done more stuff like this before the election I think she would have had a better chance.

I really do think she needs to take the example of Jimmy Carter who was really hurt by GOP attacks and managed to turn his whole image around by being a good person and supporting altruistic things.

Fla Dem

(23,339 posts)
273. Hillary Clinton owes me nothing.
Wed Nov 30, 2016, 12:43 PM
Nov 2016

She has worked tirelessly for decades for a better life for children and families. She traveled the globe during her 4 years as SOS to repair the diplomatic shit mess the Bush administration left for the Obama administration. She campaigned hard and put herself out there for nearly 2 years for the Democratic nomination and then for the presidency when she could have kicked back, done a few paid speeches and enjoyed her life as a wife, Mom and Grandparent. Instead she stood up to the insistent and feckless Republican investigations, lies and mudslinging which has dogged her for 30 years.

She owes me nothing. I am indebted to her for her service to our country.

 

FairWinds

(1,717 posts)
274. Ms. Clinton owes it to us to dismantle the DLC . .
Wed Nov 30, 2016, 12:58 PM
Nov 2016

and get the Koch brothers out of the party.

The DLC was instrumental in turning the Dems away
from the New Deal, and becoming GOP lite.

Unmitigated disasters, both.

BTW, like many Sanders backers I supported Clinton in
the general election - in fact, we invited HRC field workers
into our Ohio home for weeks on end, something that our
local Dem Central Committee members (AKA, country club
Dems) could not be bothered with.

senaca

(209 posts)
278. Stronger Together
Wed Nov 30, 2016, 02:06 PM
Nov 2016

While you're correct that Hillary doesn't owe us anything, I have to say that I truly miss her voice. I think that her campaign slogan "Stronger Together" applies even more strongly now. If we splinter or divide then we won't be as effective in fighting for the very things like Civil Rights, Workers Rights, Environmental, Health Care, Education - you name it. Unfortunately we have lost some very powerful voices in the interim. President Obama due to his position can't speak out. Hillary deserves this time after a hard fought race. To even campaign with pneumonia, showed us how hard she campaigned.

As of now it seems that Elizabeth Warren and Bernie Sanders are able to speak up about Trump's plans. Others have too, but I think that at this point those two know how to speak clearly in a way that clears the smog from the show. I think we will need many strong voices in combatting the erosion or rights that many have taken for granted. I sincerely hope that we all back our Unions as I believe they are on the front line of all of this. For me it doesn't matter if these voices come from the Democratic Party or the Independents as long as we stick together with the same goal in mind. We have much more in common than we have differences in policy.

Again I think Hillary's, "Stronger Together" is powerful.

joshcryer

(62,265 posts)
281. I actually hope she runs in 2020.
Wed Nov 30, 2016, 02:54 PM
Nov 2016

Wouldn't that be something?

She won the popular vote. She has no reason not to run.

I was part of the Draft Gore movement, he won the popular vote, we thought he should run again in 2004. But he didn't have it in him. We were devastated when he decided not to run.

Wouldn't it be something if Hillary Clinton decided to put herself out there the next 4 years and say, I'm in it again?

God it would fucking infuriate the people wanting "change" in the party when in fact they are falling for whine nationalist bullshit. But it ain't happening.

I wish.

WMDemocract

(36 posts)
301. They can blame Obama for 2 more months
Wed Nov 30, 2016, 04:48 PM
Nov 2016

They'll go back to blaming Obama for not being progressive enough. Then they'll whine about Trump and "wonder" how he got elected while continuing to worship the person they voted for, Jill Stein.

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