The "fly-overs" crying for repeal of the ACA

[SHRED]

How many of them have not lost their life savings due to protections the ACA has given them?
How many even realize these protections?

Outlawing the practice of capping (limiting) coverage amounts should you get a catastrophic illness, disease, or accident.
Outlawing denial if coverage due to a pre-existing condition.
Outlawing insurance companies from dropping you should you get sick.

Rust belt, fly over, rural, or whatever you want to call them have some of the most willfully ignorant people in our country.
And not just there either...they are everywhere...the stupid is thick.

[Duckhunter935]

1. They will learn sadly

[guillaumeb]

2. I disagree.

The GOP will find a way to convince these soon to be uninsured people that it is all President Obama's fault.

[OnDoutside]

8. That's why it's vital for Democrats to be far more vocal.

[Grey Lemercier]

14. this is truth

The Fox Blondes will be working overtime to convince the human racist colostomy bags is all Obama's fault.

[Ohioblue22]

22. It will be hard to blame dems when the cons own all 3 branches

[moonscape]

27. It might go something like this:

Rates were rising under Obamacare, and if we hadn't stepped in, your rates would be triple what they are now. It was adding to the problems of Medicare, bankrupting it (vs the truth, strengthening), and <DT takes over> it would be an even bigger disaster. Believe me!

And they will.

[guillaumeb]

58. Well said.

Trump's followers desperately want to believe in his slogans. As long as he can sound believable, and he has many years of experience lying to people, his followers will believe him.

[Yavin4]

72. More like this. Your health insurance coverage is being cut back because of undocumented workers

using the emergency rooms and getting free healthcare from the government. The only explanations that they will accept is blaming it on other people.

[spanone]

3. someone described it earlier as 'chickens rooting for colonel sanders'....

i freakin' don't get it.

[world wide wally]

4. They think Obamacare is a gov't program.

They don't realize that it regulates the insurance companies

[rzemanfl]

5. Remember when Dubyah didn't seem to know

Medicare or Social Security (I forget which) was "some kind of government program?"

[SHRED]

13. It's a wonder how they even realize...

...to feed themselves.

[Historic NY]

53. That because Obamacare became the slur the GOP used to describe the ACA......

and the idiots believed them.

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2011/10/28/who-invented-the-word-obamacare_n_1064012.html

[LonePirate]

6. Sometimes children need to learn a painful lesson, like losing their health care

[Duckhunter935]

7. Sad but true

[sheshe2]

25. Yet we pay the price.

I am on ACA.

[LeftInTX]

49. My granddaughter was born on ACA

Her mom is in nursing school

[pangaia]

45. Maybe, but the innocent shouldn't have to pay also.

[sarisataka]

9. Well obviously I can't

Match the sophistication of a person such as yourself who is from a place that REALLY MATTERS, do take a moment to consider that my fellow peasants have been led astray by a member of the costs aristocracy.

It's not entirely their fault at having been hoodwinked by a rapscalion with cosmopolitan city ways. The unrefined bumpkins needed to have another manor-borne protect them from such deceit. Unfortunately the blackguard's words were unopposed by those flying over...

[SHRED]

11. There's no shortage of stupid everywhere

Just different concentrations.

[sarisataka]

15. While I never underestimate

The stupidity of the average voter, perhaps Democrats should devote some attention to that which is within as well as without.

Some of us cautioned against over optimism. We were assured every poll indicating the election is close was right wing propaganda or the media trying to keep people interested because a Democratic victory was inevitable.

Months ago I made the statement "Never assume victory". I wish my apprehension was less prescient.

Now post election all we here is how the votes were hacked (with zero evidence at this time) and stupid white voters (who we were told are an irrelevant block). The language used to describe the South, Midwest and West (except California of course) sounds like 19th century missionaries talking about the savages they are trying to convert.

No one seems to consider for a moment that the Democratic message failed to reach a wider audience because is couldn't cut through the hubris and arrogance.

Once we were the Party of the working class. Today we call those same people 'ignorant', 'stupid', 'racist' and 'children'. But we are sure they will learn a lesson and return...

[SHRED]

24. Corporate power owns the airwaves

You can't stop people from being brainwashed by it.

Pretty hopeless really as I see it.

[pangaia]

46. And deplorables.

[alarimer]

56. They haven't been hoodwinked. They are resentful.

There is a difference.

https://www.scientificamerican.com/article/trump-s-victory-and-the-politics-of-resentment/

Many times this resentment comes out as a feeling of, “I’m a deserving person, a hardworking American and the things I deserve are actually going to other people who are less deserving.” Donald Trump’s message really tapped into that sentiment. What I heard him saying was: You are right, you are not getting your fair share, you should be angry, you are a deserving, hardworking American and what you deserve is going to people who don’t deserve it. He pointed his finger at immigrants, the Chinese, bad trade deals, Muslims, uppity women. He gave people concrete targets, and it was a way of sparking anger and mobilizing support.

[Xipe Totec]

10. And Trump is Lord of the Flyovers. nt

[cigsandcoffee]

18. He did manage to land his plane in Wisconsin. n/t

[EL34x4]

54. And it will have all been for nothing

After Jill Stein finds 23,000 extra Hillary Clinton votes.

Just keep clicking her PayPal button! Election do-over here we come!

[katmondoo]

12. Maybe Obama should have spent more time explaining Obamacare

most people are really unaware of how it works

[pangaia]

16. The fly-over have nothing on the Southern Tier of NYS..

which we could call the 'drive-through' counties...

OR the rural area of the Finger Lakes region (which is 99% of it)

[SMC22307]

21. At least it's got some mighty fine wine. (n/t)

[pangaia]

23. Well.. the wine....

hummm.... I am no wine expert but I am sometimes too opinionated.... LOL !!

There are few I would buy.... Over the years, my favorite place is still Konstantine Frank. His Rieslings, of course... and I am not a riesling fan, at that....

The rkatsiteli is also a favorite...

[SMC22307]

34. Aw, that was a silly 'Joy to the World' reference.

I was up that way once for the Corning Museum of Glass (never thought I'd spend close to five hours in a glass museum, but it was fascinating) and a bunch of wineries. Sort of a spur-of-the-moment road trip that I thoroughly enjoyed.

[pangaia]

38. It is beautiful up this way, i will say that.

This fall was just spectacular. AND..it was late..so i got to see 3 autumns this year. Ours, South Korea and Japan.
🤗🤗🤗

[SMC22307]

40. Wow -- three!

It was late and I pretty much stuck to the DC area... didn't even make it to the Blue Ridge Parkway like a I normally try to do.

[pangaia]

42. Blue ridge is gorgeous!!

There was even a little snow in Tokyo recently but i missed it..

[SMC22307]

43. It is. But go on a week day...

the leaf peepers are out in force (en force? it's late and I'm tired) on the weekends!

[pangaia]

44. LOL !!!

Ok..thanks. 😅

[3catwoman3]

51. I love the Bully Hill winery and restaurant.

They have the only red wine that I like - Love My Goat.

[pangaia]

69. Well, there is no accounting for taste.

Sorry,, as I said above, I am often over-opinionated..

I lived in this area when Walter was still the wine maker for Taylor in Hammondsport.. when he started Bully Hill, all the law suits, magic marker stuff...
He was a smart cookie, that one.

The first time I had a really good wine was in.. 1968. It was a '61 Chateau Lafite Rothschild and it's been all downhill since then.

[3catwoman3]

70. I freely admit to an unsophisticated wine palate, and could...

...never be accused of being a wine snob. I like things that taste good, and, to me, most dry red wines taste like cough syrup.

I happen to like this one.

[pangaia]

71. cough syrup. LOL!! I like that one.

I just tend to PRETEND to be a wine snob.

I have two good friends, husband and wife, who really, really know wines......... I tell you, I can not tell when a wine has 'hints of cranberry' vs hints of mountain ash to save my life.

I also just like what I like..
One thing I like is pretending to be a snob..

[3catwoman3]

73. I will admit to being a grooming...

...and grammar snob.

[pangaia]

74. I wear jeans...

and t-shirts..often...

[3catwoman3]

75. Jeans and hoodies are my favorite...

...at home wear. Diamond studs and clean hair go with everything.

[Sherman A1]

17. Please explain

how calling any group of people names furthers the discussion? "Fly-overs, Rust Belt, Rural, etc....."

Is this not identity politics which does nothing but divide people instead of bring them together on issues by explaining them in reasonable terms?

[SHRED]

19. It's where most of the tRump votes came from

Don't shoot the messenger.

[Sherman A1]

48. Not shooting anyone, simply

wondering what the benefit of devise identity politics happens to be?

[sheshe2]

26. You alerted?

I depend on ACA as of a few months ago. Lost my job and Cobra was unattainable.

[Sherman A1]

47. No,

I don't do Alerts, I simply occasionally respond and use trash thread and ignore features.

[SMC22307]

20. Probably just those without subsidized plans...

getting hosed by astronomical premiums. I'd be fuming, too, but THANK GOD, I have truly affordable employer-sponsored health insurance.

...

Blinson, who owns a car lot and car repair shop, has watched the couple’s health insurance bill balloon from the $450 a month they paid three years ago – before ACA took effect – to $1,250 this year. The Blinsons’ insurance bill would jump to $1,750 a month in January, he said, if the couple were to continue with Blue Cross and Blue Shield, even though they don’t have serious medical expenses.

....

Off-exchange insurance options dwindling in N.C.

Cigna will charge $609 a month for a 50-year-old non-smoker in Wake County, whereas Aetna will charge a 50-year-old nonsmoker in Wake County $561.31. Blue Cross offers multiple options in Wake County, ranging from $571.77 a month to $876.50 month for a 50-year-old non-smoker.

....

http://www.newsobserver.com/news/business/article116988418.html#storylink=cpy

$876/month?! That's more than my first mortgage back in the '90s. Are people seriously not understanding why many Americans do not like the "Affordable" Care Act?

[sheshe2]

29. I am happy for you to be employed...

You have fantastic heath care! Yeah you. Awesome!

Some of us are recently unemployed. I am now on ACA and pay very little. I got it through MA health connector. I pay 65 a month with dental.

[SMC22307]

32. You're quite lucky to be paying only 65/mo including dental.

I'm hearing more and more about these insane premiums and while the ACA works for some, it's a disaster for others. Young people haven't signed up, in spite of Pajama Boy. Many are opting to just pay the penalty and be done with it.

I've been laid off twice throughout my career and have worked hard to get where I am now. Good luck in your job search.

[sheshe2]

37. Only laid off twice?

Lucky you, ya must be a youngster.

Companies I worked for went down. Four times. I lost what I gained every damn time.

Nasty shot....

I've been laid off twice throughout my career and have worked hard to get where I am now. Good luck in your job search.

I worked my damn ass off for every job I worked at. You worked damn hard? Well so did I. Not all of us as are a lucky as you.

PS....I saw all the shots you took at me on my other thread. Privileged.

[SMC22307]

39. Good. We all work hard.

Group hug.

[sheshe2]

41. Snort

[doc03]

28. They don't even know that Medicare was improved by the ACA

you get a yearly physical and other things like a colonoscopy for no charge. A friend of mine
had a business and paid for his own insurance. He told me him and his wife both got a
colonoscopy a few years ago and had to pay out $5000 because of the high deductibles. Last year
under Obamacare they both had a colonoscopy for free. He is happy it saved him $5000.

[SHRED]

31. More "hidden" benefit

Thanks for posting.

[doc03]

30. What gets me is the people that complain about Obamacare and the mandate

ether are on Medicare or get insurance from their employer. All they know is Obamacare bad Fox News says so.

[PufPuf23]

33. How is that working for you calling people stupid?

Trump is POTUS elect.

There is a GOP majority in the House, Senate, state Governorships, and most State houses.

The Democratic party has lost or willfully marginalized many life long Democratic party members.

There are flaws in ACA and universal health care was never truly "on the table".

There has to be a better way than calling people stupid.

Perhaps educate, pay attention to other's sensitivities and needs, and practice inclusion rather than belittle?

[SMC22307]

36. Good post. (n/t)

[treestar]

52. They are

Treating them with kindness is what has not worked. The republicans tell them is authoritative terms so they listen. We attempt to reason with them and lose. Just tell them what is best for them authoritatively. We don't have to call them stupid. But admit they are and stop trying to use reason. They are driven by their emotions.

[Nancyswidower]

59. I can tell you.....

as an Upstate NY'er....north of the thruway....surrounded by Trump voters....that your plan is a way to alienate voters for a generation...or more.
"We don't have to call them stupid. But admit they are and stop trying to use reason.."

Let's pretend the EC goes away someday soon or goes proportional(as a compromise)......the quote above will not be helpful in trying to gain NYS votes.

[treestar]

60. I just think everything has been tried

But some people respond well to being insulted. Or yelled at. I think this may describe the trumpeters.

I recall losing it once and thinking that was bad until the recipient of said meltdown liked me better for it and said I was tough! So there are those types.

[Nancyswidower]

64. How did that work this cycle??

I firmly believe Sec Clinton lost this with the basket of deplorables comment....I saw the hardening of opposition up here after that.
Anecdotal example of course....several of my family members that were on the fence because they weren't enamored with how the Spitzer, Paterson, Cuomo have run over us up here were ballistic over her comment.....dyed in the wool Centrist Dems...just left POTUS line blank...

Sec Clinton killed the Cheeto in NY as we knew she would....but pissing off people is not they way to grow the base.
We see that in Pa., Mi., Wi, Fl.

[treestar]

66. It's funny they should be that sensitive

That compares with the orange ones insults to come up as nothing. Democrats can't make one mistake while rs can do all kinds of worse and get a pass.

Debate with right wingers and they are mean and insulting. Calling us liberal whiny crybabies. That type then can feel insulted by being called deplorable. Total double standard and we bow down to it !

[Nancyswidower]

68. I get your point....BUT you seem to admit the difference...

" Democrats can't make one mistake ...." You reinforce my point....we KNOW this going in.
Wouldn't the better path be to appeal to the people not in the Urban hubs....absolutely it's a double standard.....but it's the standard we have to deal with.
Wasn't dealt with so well this cycle...or the '14 midterms, or the '10 mids...for lack of a better description....let's stop shitting in our own nest.

This fuster cluck outcome was avoidable....

[NanceGreggs]

35. The President who preceded me was SO bad ...

... the voters kept booing him through my entire administration.

[SomethingNew]

50. There are serious problems with the ACA

Refusing to acknowledge them won't get anywhere. For example, my dad's insurance premium has tripled in the last year while he had to take a 30% paycut at his new job. That is serious money that he can barely afford. I understand that it helps a lot of people who haven't been able to find get back to work but those aren't the only people out there. We need to look at the problems that the working middle class is facing too or we will keep losing their votes.

[treestar]

61. Wouldn't the pay cut be figured in? Subsidy is based on your income.

[SomethingNew]

76. He makes too much to qualify for any assistance.

The ceiling there is pretty low (roughly $45,000). Additionally, his insurance is through his employer. He was laid off last fall and found a new job earlier this year, clear across the country, making 30% less. Since he started last spring, his premiums have gone up and they are going to go up again in January.

[alarimer]

55. The politics of resentment

The resent being told what to do with their money, even if it benefits them.

[SHRED]

57. I resent...

...my tax dollars fueling the military corporate complex and endless wars.

People wanting to repeal the ACA with no alternative plan have a different values system than me I guess.

[sofa king]

63. I think you're giving them too much credit.

They resent it because Sean Hannity tells them to resent it. There is no consideration of details, no understanding of the process, and no expected results from success.

As usual in such situations, they'll have that moment of clarity when they lose their loved ones and have to turn their savings over to the insurance companies in return for their own lives. That's the problem with conservatives: you have to kick them in the balls to teach them not to kick people in the balls.

[BigDemVoter]

62. I find that 99.9% of those who oppose the ACA ("Obamacare") . .

don't even know WHAT the ACA is. . . . They are incapable of understanding ANY of the benefits they gained, and they have been programmed to reject anything they see as being a benefit to others (i.e. "Those people&quot . . . .

[Oneironaut]

65. We need these "fly-overs'" votes.

They're not cartoonish, Deliverance-esque Hillbillies that shoot guns all day while yelling "Yehaw!" and "Praise Jeezus!" They're people with legitimate problems.

Everytime we sneer at them, more turn to the Conservatives. They think we only care about big cities and Wall Street. They believe that the government has forgotten about them.

The Democratic Party has been awful at message control. They won't refute even the most obvious garbage, or explain why people will be hurt by Conservative policies.

[SHRED]

67. Schumer leads the Democratic Party

He whole heartedly supported the illegal Iraq invasion and now bangs the war drums against Iran.

The Democratic Party is on life support. Convincing red state rubes right now should be the least of our concerns.