General Discussion
Related: Editorials & Other Articles, Issue Forums, Alliance Forums, Region ForumsI have a question for the computer experts?
Can 650,000 emails be saved on a hard drive, or after while do they go away? I would have thought so many emails the hard drive would crash?
Wilms
(26,795 posts)Usually, someone says, "Boo!". That's what does it.
Grey Lemercier
(1,429 posts)Renew Deal
(81,856 posts)And the amount of free space. Most emails are very small. Outlook often keeps a record of deleted emails. Other programs may do that. Also, it's possible that some of the emails are old and saved.
imanamerican63
(13,782 posts)It explains it well to not to bright computer user!
Renew Deal
(81,856 posts)I've seen that thrown around. It seems high.
imanamerican63
(13,782 posts)RKP5637
(67,104 posts)absolutely no difficulty at all. If you run your own email program, you can just store everything locally, for example, the Thunderbird email program. You can store them forever and ever.
imanamerican63
(13,782 posts)lapfog_1
(29,199 posts)assuming the drive is large enough...
650K x (say) 50K = 32.5 GB which is almost nothing in today's storage world.
and organizing 650,000 emails is not a difficult task.
However, the key is that there would be NO way for a human to actually read and, possibly, respond to 650,000 emails over a 4 year period (time that Hillary was SoS).
Assume you can read and respond (to only a small fraction) of these... and it takes you an average of 1 min to do so... every day for 4 years. You would spend 10,000 hours on this... or 2500 hours per year which would work out to around 10 hours a day, every work day, for 4 years ( 2 weeks for vacation every year).
It is NOT possible for someone to do that and remain sane.
Almost all of these emails would have to be marked (by email rules) as spam (usually designated by either subject line or web address of the originator), never to have been seen by humans.
getagrip_already
(14,721 posts)Space is the issue. A glance at my email folder shows I have emails ranging from 25MB to 50 kb. If they were all 50kb (unlikely for a porn hound like wiener) then the email would be about 35 GB before compression.
That's too big for a single outlook folder. Outlook can have an unlimited number of objects per folder, but each folder is limited to 2gb. Other email clients are milited by the number of objects as well as size. Plus, performance sucks as you reach the limits.
So these emails will be spread over multiple folders or databases.
Not impossible.
But out of those 650k emails, sources said just over a thousand "may" fit the profile of what they would be interested in. They would primarily be interested in anything sent to/from state.gov, or anything to/from the email server clinton used.
These could just be Houma sending emails to anthony while she was at work. We don't know because the "sources" are conflicting with each other. No official info is available, and that is part of comey's plan. Let crap fill in the voids, because there is no substance anyone would care about.
lapfog_1
(29,199 posts)650K x 50K (avg size) is only 32.5 GB not TB.
but what's three orders of magnitude.
getagrip_already
(14,721 posts)I deal in TB a LOT. Just a typo.
lapfog_1
(29,199 posts)getagrip_already
(14,721 posts)Foggyhill
(1,060 posts)I CAN write emails the length of a few hundred bytes with the header
Without attachment or images an email is text and compresses tremendously you can fit 10000 compressed text email in a megabyte
It's also like had been deleted, say junk mail, and simply had not been written over by other content
I received about 100k emails a year and i am not in politics
If 2 people share a computer, getting to 600k over a few years is pretty easy
Most laptop disks are not many terabytes even now it doesn't have to be in this case to contain those emails even in a. On compressed form
getagrip_already
(14,721 posts)but wiener is reportedly a porn hound and sex addict. Houma said she rarely used that laptop, and didn't have an email client on it.
So these were probably wieners emails. And most of those were probably sex spam. And those have a lot of attachments.
Any size you give them though, that is a lot of emails. Nothing whatsoever for a good forensics program to sort and compare. By now, they know exactly what they have.
If comey makes another press conference, he can have details to present any way he wants, and we know what that will look like - suppositions presented as fact. If he doesn't, there is nothing there.
But hopefully the dump the little du birdies have been talking about will have something biggly. The newsweek piece isn't the big dump. t's good, but it doesn't seem to be making the rounds of talking heads yet.
WhollyHeretic
(4,074 posts)I wouldn't recommend actually having a PST anywhere near that big but it is possible.
getagrip_already
(14,721 posts)At least 5. That's why I used the 2gb number. But performance begins to suck long before 10gb is reached on most hw and spinning drives (need a LOT of ram and an ssd to move beyond that).
Motley13
(3,867 posts)B2G
(9,766 posts)Initech
(100,064 posts)On Outlook you can absolutely save backup copies of e-mails and that should have been done regardless. Any competent IT department will tell you that. But since 8 and 10TB hard drives exist now there's no such thing as having so many the hard drive would crash. If anything the cause of that happening would depend on the age of the server.
Orrex
(63,203 posts)Tracer
(2,769 posts)I clear out my email folder as soon as I've finished doing whatever needed to be done regarding those emails. Meaning -- I delete them and trash them.
Are they still out there somewhere other than on my computer? (iMac, using "Mail"
Thanks.
Foggyhill
(1,060 posts)Recoverable long after you deleted them (until the space is required to write something new). So, if your disk isn't close to being full, deleted emails can linger for years.
There are programs that allow to write random garbage in the free space of your disk to remove this old data once in a while
Fahrenthold451
(436 posts)650,000 is nothin.
ColemanMaskell
(783 posts)I have emails that are ten years old because I use it as a filing system. However, they are not necessarily on your hard drive. That also depends on how it is set up. If you can go to a library or an internet cafe and access your emails from their computers, then obviously the emails are out in cyberspace on a server someplace rather than being on your hard drive.
Moreover, even if you take the precaution of keeping emails on a hard drive on your laptop, most email providers make backups for purposes of disaster recovery.
Beyond that, once you delete an email, it typically does not really disappear, it just goes into a different folder, usually called "archive". That itself is cleaned up (contents deleted) on a schedule that depends on your settings.
Also, whatever amount of disk space or other storage you have available for emails, it determines not so much the number of emails you can keep, but rather the total amount of space you can use expressed as a function of number of emails and size of each email -- roughly equal to number of emails times the average size of an email, if all your emails are around the same size (or normally distributed). So if you have, say, 148,000 million bytes of storage available (148GB as on this cheap Toshiba laptop I'm using), and you dedicate half of it to emails, you might as a ballpark estimate have 750,000 emails of 100,000 bytes each sitting on the hard drive on your laptop itself.
That would be adequate for text-only emails, but pictures take up more space, with large high resolution pictures taking up more space. Some systems have a limit on the size of any individual email, typically 5 million bytes, but many do not have any specific size limit. The mailbox itself typically has a limit, usually less than the 75,000 million bytes in the example, but again that depends on how it is set up. Presumably Mr Weiner stored a lot of photos, so he would have been able to store fewer total emails because of the relatively large space requirements of high resolution photos. Presumably his wife's emails would be more text-based and hence smaller.
If they used a govt-hosted email account then their emails would likely be held on a server someplace rather than on the hard drive on the laptop. It is risky to keep emails on a laptop hard drive because a laptop is so easily lost or stolen, and you would then need to request replacement copies from the backup or archival copies kept by your email service provider, if any.
So on balance, sure it's plausible they found as many emails as they said, and maybe the emails might have been held exclusively on the hard drive on the laptop. It seems unlikely they would do that, but who knows what Wiener would do; he's demonstrated amply that he doesn't exercise the best judgment. My best guess, though, is that there are probably no new Clinton emails there. But there could be.
dembotoz
(16,799 posts)where i was at previously the constant wars between those who needed the huge email files and the it staff stuck with trying to keep the computers up were continuous.
when i opened my own shop i went with a cloud email for this very reason....
a phrase from the it guy from not too long ago...the more storage you give em the more storage they will fill