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OxQQme

(2,550 posts)
Tue Jul 26, 2016, 08:02 PM Jul 2016

Democracies end when they are too democratic.

Last edited Tue Jul 26, 2016, 08:32 PM - Edit history (1)

snip> "As this dystopian election campaign has unfolded, my mind keeps being tugged by a passage in Plato’s Republic. It has unsettled — even surprised — me from the moment I first read it in graduate school. The passage is from the part of the dialogue where Socrates and his friends are talking about the nature of different political systems, how they change over time, and how one can slowly evolve into another. And Socrates seemed pretty clear on one sobering point: that “tyranny is probably established out of no other regime than democracy.” What did Plato mean by that? Democracy, for him, I discovered, was a political system of maximal freedom and equality, where every lifestyle is allowed and public offices are filled by a lottery. And the longer a democracy lasted, Plato argued, the more democratic it would become. Its freedoms would multiply; its equality spread. Deference to any sort of authority would wither; tolerance of any kind of inequality would come under intense threat; and multiculturalism and sexual freedom would create a city or a country like “a many-colored cloak decorated in all hues.”<

> "The very rich come under attack, as inequality becomes increasingly intolerable. Patriarchy is also dismantled: “We almost forgot to mention the extent of the law of equality and of freedom in the relations of women with men and men with women.” Family hierarchies are inverted: “A father habituates himself to be like his child and fear his sons, and a son habituates himself to be like his father and to have no shame before or fear of his parents.” In classrooms, “as the teacher ... is frightened of the pupils and fawns on them, so the students make light of their teachers.” Animals are regarded as equal to humans; the rich mingle freely with the poor in the streets and try to blend in. The foreigner is equal to the citizen.

And it is when a democracy has ripened as fully as this, Plato argues, that a would-be tyrant will often seize his moment.<


> "For Trump is not just a wacky politician of the far right, or a riveting television spectacle, or a Twitter phenom and bizarre working-class hero. He is not just another candidate to be parsed and analyzed by TV pundits in the same breath as all the others. In terms of our liberal democracy and constitutional order, Trump is an extinction-level event. It’s long past time we started treating him as such."<


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Democracies end when they are too democratic. (Original Post) OxQQme Jul 2016 OP
The Tyranny of the Majority. RandySF Jul 2016 #1
I would say that we are still a long way from being too democratic. Tal Vez Jul 2016 #2
Jefferson thought Plato was full of shit...because he was. lumberjack_jeff Jul 2016 #3
+1 octoberlib Jul 2016 #4
"Trump is an extinction-level event. " former9thward Jul 2016 #5

Tal Vez

(660 posts)
2. I would say that we are still a long way from being too democratic.
Tue Jul 26, 2016, 08:07 PM
Jul 2016

The people of this country have many unmet needs. I don't expect to ever see a perfect society, but I know which side of the ball that I want to be on during my lifetime.

former9thward

(31,973 posts)
5. "Trump is an extinction-level event. "
Tue Jul 26, 2016, 09:05 PM
Jul 2016

Everyday this election goes on a statement is made which is more silly than the day before. So now we are supposed to cancel elections when someone is running we don't like. BTW we live in a republic not a democracy. You would think the New York magazine would know that.

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