Sun Jul 17, 2016, 09:50 PM

Kurska (5,739 posts)

Islam, as it is practiced by a majority of muslims in the world, is a regressive force.

Last edited Mon Jul 18, 2016, 09:54 AM - Edit history (11)

Majority Muslim countries stand out for their lack of social progress on issues like gay rights and women rights. Generally, progress on such issues is more related to levels of development. The more advanced a nation, the more these nations adopt progressive social policies. The massive exception is places where Islamic political movements hold sway. Despite high levels of economic development, these places remain socially backwards or massively regress when these movements come to power (Turkey, Qatar, UAE etc...).

There are of course very tolerant and accepting strains of Islam, but the undeniable fact is these find very little popularity with the Muslim world as a whole. Denying this does nothing to solve this problem or aid minorities affected by it.

"Although Sikhs and Hindus do sometimes commit such murders, honor killings, both worldwide and in the West, are mainly Muslim-on-Muslim crimes. In this study, worldwide, 91 percent of perpetrators were Muslims. In North America, most killers (84 percent) were Muslims, with only a few Sikhs and even fewer Hindus perpetrating honor killings; in Europe, Muslims comprised an even larger majority at 96 percent while Sikhs were a tiny percentage. In Muslim countries, obviously almost all the perpetrators were Muslims. With only two exceptions, the victims were all members of the same religious group as their murderers."

What can be done about it? I'm not entirely sure myself, I do know that trying to dismiss this problem as unimportant does nothing to help address it. At minimum, it is intolerable that we consider allies and sell weapons to nations with human rights records like Saudi Arabia.

"But Kurska, it is all about Human development and the impact of colonialism"

Alright, lets test that theory. Lets compare areas of the world that have broadly similar HDI's to the middle east; South America, east Asia (excluding Japan/Korea) and South East Asia.

https://www.yahoo.com/sy/ny/api/res/1.2/daVWANQcHZI4WAQPYIQvdw--/YXBwaWQ9aGlnaGxhbmRlcjtzbT0xO3c9ODAwO2lsPXBsYW5l/

Notice something? Despite having similar levels of human development, the middle east is still massively behind the rest of the world on this issue and I assure you, other issues like this. You can clearly see the HDI plays a role, EXCEPT in areas where political Islam is powerful, where it doesn't seem to matter. The charts speak for themselves.

Again, HDI plays a role yes, except in areas where political Islam is powerful, where it doesn't seem to make a difference.

The Middle East is even worse than Sub-Shara Africa, which has the world's lowest levels of HDI and was heavily impacted by colonialism.

On edit.

I'm seeing this argument in particular.

"But Kurska, you can't expect a nation that built higher HDI on an export economy to not be a socially regressive hell hole"

Okay, lets compare the economic export map of Brazil

To Egypt

One of these nations has gay marriage, the other has homosexuality outlawed. The difference is not an export driven economy largely based on raw materials, the difference is the influence of political Islam.

Funnily enough, Brazil and Egypt both have a similar percent of their economy tied to exports (13%). Once more, the difference is the power of political Islam.

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245 replies	Author	Time	Post
Islam, as it is practiced by a majority of muslims in the world, is a regressive force. (Original post)	Kurska	Jul 2016	OP
This should go well....	Scurrilous	Jul 2016	#1
+1	bravenak	Jul 2016	#2
its practiced by close to a plurality of the world, not anywhere close to a majority	ericson00	Jul 2016	#3
I meant as it is practiced by a majority of Muslims, not as a majority of the world.	Kurska	Jul 2016	#4
probably should fix the title of the thread	ericson00	Jul 2016	#5
Clearer? EOM	Kurska	Jul 2016	#6
yes.	ericson00	Jul 2016	#11
That claim is simply false and sad	Gothmog	Jul 2016	#179
Yeah, yeah we get it.... Muslims are bad.	giftedgirl77	Jul 2016	#7
are Evangelicals bad people or Mormons bad people? No, but progressives criticize their religion	ericson00	Jul 2016	#9
+1	Kurska	Jul 2016	#12
Putting our economic/military strength behind wahabists	cprise	Jul 2016	#77
If the tables were turned, I still wouldn't be stoning women and killing gays.	Kurska	Jul 2016	#78
Most of the 20th century would beg to disagree with your tautology.	cprise	Jul 2016	#92
Pretending that the current social policies are anything but continous from ones thousands of years	Kurska	Jul 2016	#99
A truly excellent reply that is obviously not in tune	guillaumeb	Jul 2016	#226
Basic difference: No one in the U.S. foreign policy establishment...	Ken Burch	Jul 2016	#105
the US FP establishment is NOT pushing some kind of	ericson00	Jul 2016	#109
I'm not an "Islam-defender"...It's just that I'm not an anti-Islam obsessive.	Ken Burch	Jul 2016	#113
"Nothing anyone said about the Soviet model from outside had anything to do with it. '	Kurska	Jul 2016	#141
I agree that those countries are backwards places. Repression anywhere should be denounced.	Ken Burch	Jul 2016	#186
So Ken, please dictate the limits LGBT must respect when objecting to the lash and	Bluenorthwest	Jul 2016	#143
Wasn't talking about LGBTQ people here, and would never limit your right to speak out.	Ken Burch	Jul 2016	#177
It's just about the same as the rhetoric of colonialism	Chathamization	Jul 2016	#195
Therefore, we should send in the Marines. n/t.	Ken Burch	Jul 2016	#199
Such tolerant liberals don't mind	840high	Jul 2016	#54
I agree that secular liberals, such as myself, should be able to criticize	Chakab	Jul 2016	#64
Except Muslims aren't making the laws here	cprise	Jul 2016	#81
+1 n/t	TubbersUK	Jul 2016	#133
Thank you! ++++++++++	grossproffit	Jul 2016	#123
Well, I live in Malaysia for a while. Women are required to dress like muslim women need to	Feeling the Bern	Jul 2016	#71
Your post NEEDS to be READ and REREAD	grossproffit	Jul 2016	#124
Post removed	Post removed	Jul 2016	#73
Not all of the people...	TipTok	Jul 2016	#98
the concept of separation of church and state is lacking	JI7	Jul 2016	#8
You might as well say "Brown/Black" people are regressive force in world	kcjohn1	Jul 2016	#10
I gave a list of many Muslim countries that are far from third world.	Kurska	Jul 2016	#13
Those countries certainly are incredibly rich... for some people	ck4829	Jul 2016	#15
Mostly for the Native Citizens in areas like UAE.	Kurska	Jul 2016	#16
Wealth in Gulf is not because of advanced soceity	kcjohn1	Jul 2016	#20
+1	cheapdate	Jul 2016	#84
+1	TubbersUK	Jul 2016	#184
Have you met an ulta-orthodox Jew?	Gothmog	Jul 2016	#180
the colonialism the Muslim world experienced pales in comparison to that of sub-Saharan Africa,	ericson00	Jul 2016	#14
South America is another very good example of this EOM	Kurska	Jul 2016	#17
Those countries just imprison gays for years at a time or up to life	ck4829	Jul 2016	#19
Now imagine there was a HDI and victimization of colonialism map overlaid ontop of that	Kurska	Jul 2016	#24
Your agenda is so obvious, I shouldn't bother	kcjohn1	Jul 2016	#23
The Middle East is far behind every single area of the world on these issues	Kurska	Jul 2016	#25
Why do you think gays have similar rights (no rights) in places like	kcjohn1	Jul 2016	#28
the West Indies are very anti gay in cultrure, but many of the smaller islands don't do	AntiBank	Jul 2016	#60
How have you managed to separate terrorism from social development and progress?	sibelian	Jul 2016	#154
Most Muslims live in lands forcibly converted by Arab/Muslim colonizers. Was it racism?	Albertoo	Jul 2016	#75
Colonialism	1939	Jul 2016	#104
Why would the colonized have a more regressive view of women, homosexuals and ethnic	Nuclear Unicorn	Jul 2016	#130
Islam pre-dates colonialism	get the red out	Jul 2016	#131
The western world's progressive values resulted in its wealth and education...	sibelian	Jul 2016	#161
"Christianity, as it is practiced by a majority of Christians in the world, is a regressive force."	enough	Jul 2016	#18
DU has no problem admitting that, so I don't understand why the inverse is offensive to people EOM	Kurska	Jul 2016	#21
Don't you love the double standard?	backscatter712	Jul 2016	#36
.that^	840high	Jul 2016	#52
this ^^^^^^^^^^	AntiBank	Jul 2016	#62
this ^^^^ that^^^^	delete_bush	Jul 2016	#76
Bigoted shitlord	awoke_in_2003	Jul 2016	#82
+1	Marr	Jul 2016	#89
Yep	romanic	Jul 2016	#108
+1.	NutmegYankee	Jul 2016	#110
That's not what they are critical of	treestar	Jul 2016	#134
The most benign interpretation of what they moght want	Ken Burch	Jul 2016	#222
Some on DU feel compelled	leftynyc	Jul 2016	#135
+ another 1 nt	riderinthestorm	Jul 2016	#146
It has become pathological.	sibelian	Jul 2016	#151
"How come I can criticize white people but people call me a bigot when I criticize black people?"	Chathamization	Jul 2016	#157
"the difference between minority groups and majority groups."	sibelian	Jul 2016	#159
You honestly see no difference between someone saying "stupid white people" and someone saying	Chathamization	Jul 2016	#160
...	sibelian	Jul 2016	#164
So if someone said "I hate Christians" you'd treat them the same as somone who said "I hate Jews"?	Chathamization	Jul 2016	#169
In Saudi Arabia, they're the majority. See how they act?	backscatter712	Jul 2016	#162
Also, I criticize the religion, and the repressive culture that has formed around the religion.	backscatter712	Jul 2016	#163
If you're not criticizing the people, perhaps don't write "See how they act?" to show us how	Chathamization	Jul 2016	#170
Because those who want to label Islam as "regressive" only want that label put in place	Ken Burch	Jul 2016	#191
You're right about that...	backscatter712	Jul 2016	#32
Well said!	JNelson6563	Jul 2016	#63
Seriously? This is posted here almost daily.	grossproffit	Jul 2016	#126
Replace with Religion is a regressive force.	NightWatcher	Jul 2016	#22
I personally agree religion practiced as public policy is horrible idea	kcjohn1	Jul 2016	#26
No sorry, there are other factors in play.	Kurska	Jul 2016	#30
You don't make one bit of sense	kcjohn1	Jul 2016	#35
African slave trade was originally and finally a Muslim practice, they started it and	Bluenorthwest	Jul 2016	#33
What is your point?	kcjohn1	Jul 2016	#38
The post I responded to, you asked if Christianity was the root cause of slavery, I pointed	Bluenorthwest	Jul 2016	#144
Saying "all religions are just as bad" is nothing but a trope	Kurska	Jul 2016	#27
I tend to agree	TubbersUK	Jul 2016	#102
Buddhism, Taoism and Hinduism	sibelian	Jul 2016	#153
Oh...just say it.	bdwker	Jul 2016	#183
Here's world opinion on conducting war and murdering civilians in the process:	cpwm17	Jul 2016	#29
The OP is about Islam which is a school of thought that includes execution of LGBT.	Bluenorthwest	Jul 2016	#37
In 1950s only 4% Americans approved interracial marriage	kcjohn1	Jul 2016	#39
The OP was about comparing the character Muslims to other groups.	cpwm17	Jul 2016	#43
The OP is about Islam which is a school of thought that includes execution of LGBT.	Bluenorthwest	Jul 2016	#142
War is the ultimate evil.	cpwm17	Jul 2016	#148
"This is not surprising considering the acute conflicts raging	ericson00	Jul 2016	#40
How have all our wars against the Muslim world turned out?	cpwm17	Jul 2016	#47
Those stats are scary and what has me concered.	MariaThinks	Jul 2016	#31
Even scarier is what muslims think of other religions in muslim majority countries	MariaThinks	Jul 2016	#34
Do you know the oldest Christian/Jewish communities are in muslim countries?	kcjohn1	Jul 2016	#42
have you read the numbers? what is the acceptance of Christianity or Judaism in the	MariaThinks	Jul 2016	#50
It is recent problem because there is nothing inhiretently in Islam against Jews/Christians	kcjohn1	Jul 2016	#51
Not only recent. There is a long history of persecutions of non-Muslims in Muslim lands.	hrmjustin	Jul 2016	#83
Except that Jews/Christians and that 2nd status thing	riderinthestorm	Jul 2016	#145
Yep.	840high	Jul 2016	#53
You are so right!	demosincebirth	Jul 2016	#95
"Asked of Muslims only" I wonder what the results would be if we only asked Muslims about...	ck4829	Jul 2016	#41
Most sensible answer	kcjohn1	Jul 2016	#44
You can repeat that mantra all you want.	Kurska	Jul 2016	#45
Your whole arguement is based on the gulf countries	kcjohn1	Jul 2016	#48
No, compare nations like Brazil/Bolivia/Vietnam/ to nations like Egypt/Iran/Algeria/Morocco.	Kurska	Jul 2016	#49
Go to an ultra-orthdox community is you want to see repression	Gothmog	Jul 2016	#181
No.	sibelian	Jul 2016	#150
It certainly can be. The biggest problem are people who are conservative/Fundamentalist types	The Straight Story	Jul 2016	#46
Becoming Liberal and progressive...	True Dough	Jul 2016	#96
Yes	TubbersUK	Jul 2016	#97
Straight, we have, at long last, found a subject on which we wholeheartedly agree. Great post.	Squinch	Jul 2016	#129
6 percent?	PlanetaryOrbit	Jul 2016	#55
This is bullshit	jpak	Jul 2016	#56
The top of which list?	muriel_volestrangler	Jul 2016	#147
The more we attack them, the more they radicalize, the worse they get	AgingAmerican	Jul 2016	#57
Iraq gives us one more country that we can look down on as inferior to us.	cpwm17	Jul 2016	#65
"invading their countries to steal oil" Where did that happen?	EX500rider	Jul 2016	#193
It happened in Iraq	AgingAmerican	Jul 2016	#206
Iraq sell their oil on the open market like every other oil producing country.	EX500rider	Jul 2016	#211
Am I supposed to believe	AgingAmerican	Jul 2016	#220
So you think we invaded the country for a few months of free oil? lol	EX500rider	Jul 2016	#232
Oil was still being stolen unmetered as of 2007	AgingAmerican	Jul 2016	#235
"Oil was still being stolen unmetered as of 2007" Any reputable links for that?	EX500rider	Jul 2016	#237
Why are you so defensive of the Bush administrations Iraq invasion?	AgingAmerican	Jul 2016	#240
The UK had very keen interest in it I'm ashamed to say	TubbersUK	Jul 2016	#238
Invade their countries, execute their leaders, and convert the people	alain2112	Jul 2016	#58
who ever said that? Not everyone who criticizes any aspect of Islam is a warmonger!	ericson00	Jul 2016	#66
+100	mr_liberal	Jul 2016	#59
This message was self-deleted by its author	closeupready	Jul 2016	#61
That's why nuclear, solar and fracking are such good ideas	Albertoo	Jul 2016	#72
Bingo +1	Kurska	Jul 2016	#74
the data you show is also a good case to	ericson00	Jul 2016	#67
Islam has not yet modernized as many other religions have	bluestateguy	Jul 2016	#68
See the OP: most Muslims do not reject oppression of gays and free speech	Albertoo	Jul 2016	#70
Worse: Islam has been devised as an regressive force extremely difficult to reform	Albertoo	Jul 2016	#69
The numbers don't lie. Islam Is REGRESSIVE	ram2008	Jul 2016	#79
And the causes go back hundreds of years	Kurska	Jul 2016	#80
Most Muslims just want to live in peace. Deal with it.	Doodley	Jul 2016	#87
Death penalty for gays, adulterers and blasphemers is peace?	Albertoo	Jul 2016	#90
So why are crime rates a small fraction in Muslim nations, compared to USA?	Doodley	Jul 2016	#85
Maybe because reporting crimes gets you in trouble?	Albertoo	Jul 2016	#88
Where's the moral compass in Christianity.	Doodley	Jul 2016	#91
we already know right wing christians suck and it's good we have separation of church and state	JI7	Jul 2016	#93
I don't care. And "turn the other cheek" and "slay the infidels" are two very different ideologies	Albertoo	Jul 2016	#100
I truly don't know	TubbersUK	Jul 2016	#116
Islam is in need of a reformation towards the progressive end.	hrmjustin	Jul 2016	#86
But repeating the West's history would make them	cprise	Jul 2016	#94
You're talking politics, I am talking religion.	hrmjustin	Jul 2016	#101
Islam needs a Renaissance.	DetlefK	Jul 2016	#106
Islam already had its Renaissance, sadly	Seeking Serenity	Jul 2016	#173
True. But confrontations started by outsiders can't cause that. n/t.	Ken Burch	Jul 2016	#107
You have just won a	BlueMTexpat	Jul 2016	#103
Truth hurts EOM	Kurska	Jul 2016	#111
Islamophobic Underground	mwrguy	Jul 2016	#112
Yeah, sorry for posting polls and actual hard data EOM	Kurska	Jul 2016	#122
All of the 'hat religions' are regressive.	randome	Jul 2016	#114
In case anyone is wondering, here's the reason the OP started this thread:	Ken Burch	Jul 2016	#115
its all a conspiracy!!!	ericson00	Jul 2016	#119
Not a conspiracy...an agenda...a bigoted agenda...	Ken Burch	Jul 2016	#176
Ah, thought I'd seen this before somewhere fairly recently n/t	TubbersUK	Jul 2016	#132
DU loves extreme right wingers	Democat	Jul 2016	#117
well said; and its sad and makes progressives look like jokes	ericson00	Jul 2016	#118
represents the thinking of too many on DU	Angel Martin	Jul 2016	#152
I just googled Dixon Diaz - the author of that cartoon	TubbersUK	Jul 2016	#158
Poignant	ericson00	Jul 2016	#175
Orientalism is alive and well	ck4829	Jul 2016	#120
Edward Said was anti-American and an apologist for terror	ericson00	Jul 2016	#128
But Islam is our best weapon against Christianity here at home.	ileus	Jul 2016	#121
Please tell me ur being sarcastic;	ericson00	Jul 2016	#127
You should be embarrassed by that	leftynyc	Jul 2016	#136
for a second, I thought he was being satirical;	ericson00	Jul 2016	#140
Death penalty for leaving? It's like the East Germany of religions.	modem77	Jul 2016	#125
I was looking at your maps	Uponthegears	Jul 2016	#137
no you couldn't because its not nearly as uniform red, and	ericson00	Jul 2016	#138
You've managed to entirely miss the point	Kurska	Jul 2016	#139
Oh no, I've got the point entirely	Uponthegears	Jul 2016	#149
Right as a gay man there is no way I'm concerned about the plight of gay people in those countries	Kurska	Jul 2016	#224
If you keep building straw men	Uponthegears	Jul 2016	#233
It seems to me that Islam was largely ignored until 1979 when the Iranians	no_hypocrisy	Jul 2016	#155
Nice to see straight up religious bigotry	rjsquirrel	Jul 2016	#156
Oh please. Islam is damned deserving of the criticism it gets. n/t	backscatter712	Jul 2016	#165
Oh please	rjsquirrel	Jul 2016	#167
Ask yourself why	leftynyc	Jul 2016	#172
I'm still waiting for someone to tell me and others	romanic	Jul 2016	#166
Eleven Things Women in Saudi Arabia Can't Do:	backscatter712	Jul 2016	#168
The parroting of right-wing tropes about Islam on DU is a curious thing	YoungDemCA	Jul 2016	#171
If the shoe fits...	backscatter712	Jul 2016	#174
What an amusing but wrong post	Gothmog	Jul 2016	#178
Is there an 'Islamic underground' that tries to change these beliefs that gays should be killed?	randome	Jul 2016	#182
The ultra-orthodox has a tremendous amount of influence in Israel	Gothmog	Jul 2016	#185
The ultra-orthodoxy of just about every religion should be condemned.	randome	Jul 2016	#187
Only because the second orthodoxy does not as yet have the power to do so.	Ken Burch	Jul 2016	#190
Bleh. I did not know that.	randome	Jul 2016	#197
There actually are LGBTQ activists in a lot of Arab/Muslim countries.	Ken Burch	Jul 2016	#188
The abolition of a belief is a non-starter.	randome	Jul 2016	#208
Ok.	Ken Burch	Jul 2016	#219
It won't happen from without, I'm sure we agree on that.	randome	Jul 2016	#229
So sit on our hands and pretend it isn't happening	Kurska	Jul 2016	#239
No. Support those who work for secularism and tolerance in those countries.	Ken Burch	Jul 2016	#241
I really don't think you understand we're in agreement on some parts	Kurska	Jul 2016	#242
What makes me suspicious is that you've posted these inflammatory graphics	Ken Burch	Jul 2016	#243
Tribalism predates any religion	Kurska	Jul 2016	#244
Thank you for that post.	Ken Burch	Jul 2016	#189
Except the overwhelming support for ultra-orthodox like positions in the Muslim world.	Kurska	Jul 2016	#218
But Kurska, you could replace Islam with most other religions and the statement would still be true	KamaAina	Jul 2016	#192
All too true - sadly.	TubbersUK	Jul 2016	#194
Anyone who does not call out all the religions that push bigotry is parroting the right wing.	Bluenorthwest	Jul 2016	#196
Yes, single out the bigots. Absolutely.	Ken Burch	Jul 2016	#201
Because it is true of most religions, but saying it of Islam is offensive here.	Kurska	Jul 2016	#216
Harping on Islam exclusively is offensive.	KamaAina	Jul 2016	#234
How bout not criticizng Islam at all, while one attacks ever other organized religion.	Kurska	Jul 2016	#236
Not surprisingly, the OP is written by a supporter of oppression and aggressive wars against Muslims	cpwm17	Jul 2016	#198
you've just demonstrated one of the sad reasons too many	ericson00	Jul 2016	#200
Not "hatred of Israel"...justified anger at the oppression of Palestinians.	Ken Burch	Jul 2016	#202
why does no other religious group around the world take such extreme offense	ericson00	Jul 2016	#207
Support for atrocities is not a liberal value.	cpwm17	Jul 2016	#203
Please do not attempt to introduce reality into this thread.	guillaumeb	Jul 2016	#205
1) How many nuclear devices have been used by a majority Muslim country?	guillaumeb	Jul 2016	#204
who started the slave trade in Africa? Which country was the last to formally abolish slavery?	ericson00	Jul 2016	#209
I am waiting for the answers to my questions.	guillaumeb	Jul 2016	#212
Does any of that matter to people stoned to death for loving the 'wrong' person?	randome	Jul 2016	#210
Which does not erase what is said here.	guillaumeb	Jul 2016	#215
If a woman in a western country wants to walk away from a religion or a marriage, she can.	randome	Jul 2016	#217
Unless the woman is beaten or killed in the attempt.	guillaumeb	Jul 2016	#221
I agree, religion is not the problem. Culture is. Killing for minor offenses is codified in law.	randome	Jul 2016	#227
100% agreed. Well, 99%.	guillaumeb	Jul 2016	#228
It's ALWAYS more complicated than at first glance, isn't it?	randome	Jul 2016	#230
I Thought The Era of Evangalizing the Globe	On the Road	Jul 2016	#213
As a rule, I have a great dislike philosophically for all of the Abrahamic religions.	MohRokTah	Jul 2016	#214
Thank you for that post. n/t.	Ken Burch	Jul 2016	#231
I'm gonna guess you don't know a majority of Muslims in the world and so	struggle4progress	Jul 2016	#223
Who does? That is why opinion polling is useful.	Kurska	Jul 2016	#225
I'm gonna guess you don't know a majority of Republicans in the world and so	Democat	Jul 2016	#245

Response to Kurska (Original post)

Sun Jul 17, 2016, 09:52 PM

Scurrilous (38,676 posts)

Islam, as it is practiced by a majority of muslims in the world, is a regressive force.

1. This should go well....

2. +1

3. its practiced by close to a plurality of the world, not anywhere close to a majority

4. I meant as it is practiced by a majority of Muslims, not as a majority of the world.

5. probably should fix the title of the thread

6. Clearer? EOM

11. yes.

179. That claim is simply false and sad

7. Yeah, yeah we get it.... Muslims are bad.

9. are Evangelicals bad people or Mormons bad people? No, but progressives criticize their religion

12. +1

77. Putting our economic/military strength behind wahabists

78. If the tables were turned, I still wouldn't be stoning women and killing gays.

92. Most of the 20th century would beg to disagree with your tautology.

99. Pretending that the current social policies are anything but continous from ones thousands of years

226. A truly excellent reply that is obviously not in tune

105. Basic difference: No one in the U.S. foreign policy establishment...

109. the US FP establishment is NOT pushing some kind of

113. I'm not an "Islam-defender"...It's just that I'm not an anti-Islam obsessive.

141. "Nothing anyone said about the Soviet model from outside had anything to do with it. '

186. I agree that those countries are backwards places. Repression anywhere should be denounced.

143. So Ken, please dictate the limits LGBT must respect when objecting to the lash and

177. Wasn't talking about LGBTQ people here, and would never limit your right to speak out.

195. It's just about the same as the rhetoric of colonialism

199. Therefore, we should send in the Marines. n/t.

54. Such tolerant liberals don't mind

64. I agree that secular liberals, such as myself, should be able to criticize

81. Except Muslims aren't making the laws here

133. +1 n/t

123. Thank you! ++++++++++

71. Well, I live in Malaysia for a while. Women are required to dress like muslim women need to

124. Your post NEEDS to be READ and REREAD

98. Not all of the people...

8. the concept of separation of church and state is lacking

10. You might as well say "Brown/Black" people are regressive force in world

13. I gave a list of many Muslim countries that are far from third world.

15. Those countries certainly are incredibly rich... for some people

16. Mostly for the Native Citizens in areas like UAE.

20. Wealth in Gulf is not because of advanced soceity

84. +1

184. +1

180. Have you met an ulta-orthodox Jew?

14. the colonialism the Muslim world experienced pales in comparison to that of sub-Saharan Africa,

17. South America is another very good example of this EOM

19. Those countries just imprison gays for years at a time or up to life

24. Now imagine there was a HDI and victimization of colonialism map overlaid ontop of that

23. Your agenda is so obvious, I shouldn't bother

25. The Middle East is far behind every single area of the world on these issues

28. Why do you think gays have similar rights (no rights) in places like

60. the West Indies are very anti gay in cultrure, but many of the smaller islands don't do

154. How have you managed to separate terrorism from social development and progress?

75. Most Muslims live in lands forcibly converted by Arab/Muslim colonizers. Was it racism?

104. Colonialism

130. Why would the colonized have a more regressive view of women, homosexuals and ethnic

131. Islam pre-dates colonialism

161. The western world's progressive values *resulted* in its wealth and education...

18. "Christianity, as it is practiced by a majority of Christians in the world, is a regressive force."

21. DU has no problem admitting that, so I don't understand why the inverse is offensive to people EOM

36. Don't you love the double standard?

52. .that^

62. this ^^^^^^^^^^

76. this ^^^^ that^^^^

82. Bigoted shitlord

89. +1

108. Yep

110. +1.

134. That's not what they are critical of

222. The most benign interpretation of what they moght want

135. Some on DU feel compelled

146. + another 1 nt

151. It has become pathological.

157. "How come I can criticize white people but people call me a bigot when I criticize black people?"

159. "the difference between minority groups and majority groups."

160. You honestly see no difference between someone saying "stupid white people" and someone saying

164. ...

169. So if someone said "I hate Christians" you'd treat them the same as somone who said "I hate Jews"?

162. In Saudi Arabia, they're the majority. See how they act?

163. Also, I criticize the religion, and the repressive culture that has formed around the religion.

170. If you're not criticizing the people, perhaps don't write "See how they act?" to show us how

161. The western world's progressive values resulted in its wealth and education...